Is This The Most Expensive 2X4?
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2022
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The cost of lumber has skyrocketed in recent years, but wood literally grows on trees, so making a 2X4 from scratch should be cheap, right? Find out how much making your own lumber costs on today's episode.
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You need to level up to a steam engine asap.
Instead of water powered, perhaps considered a Sterling engine powered sawmill.
@@XtomJamesExtra branch education has a decent video on something similar
Your board looks very similar to the beams in my log cabin which was built some time prior to 1810. Great job!
2:52 No "Leaves"❓ 😂 🤣 good one
Something I noticed around 10:45:
It looks to me like the blade is sharpened for a crosscut. If you instead sharpen for a rip cut, it'll be a bit faster for what you're doing (but still LOADS of work!)
The difference is that crosscut teeth are like small spear tips that slice the fibers, whereas rip teeth are like small chisels that scoop out the wood from between the fibers.
this sounds like it might help them, sending this comment up
Not so sure that's cross-cut filed - I think it's more of an older tooth profile (see some of the Viking age saws that were found in Dublin etc). Also, (and sorry if you already know this), but if there's no fleam on the teeth, the blade's still rip filed.
Green wood framesaw blades also often have a higher rake angle and are isosceles rather than equilateral triangles (so /\, instead of ^, giving much deeper gullets for the damp sawdust to clump in), and I rather doubt the wood had been dried at all when it was being processed.
All that said though, I agree that a lower rake angle would help with speeding up the cut.
something I noticed a bit later at 11:14...someone got caught making a snowman in frame.
@@Oddthetall I thought I could see some fleam, but it's admittedly hard to tell, it might just be reflections on the teeth.
@@bakerzermatt fair enough, you may be looking at it on a larger screen than me, and will be able to see details I missed.
I've seen worse at home depot
I would hope it would be better than Home Depot for $500
*lowes
That's why I quit homedepot
😂
Sick burn
The comments in this video seem like they’re not HTME’s normal audience… this channel is about experimenting and learning from methods of the past. Thank you for the incredible hard work you put in to doing this challenge and congratulations on creating a successful 2x4 using very challenging historical methods. My dad works in woodlands and runs talks on historic saw pits, the skill of the workers is incredible and replicating it successfully without the years of practice is admirable. Thank you for another enjoyable video. Congratulations on unlocking dimensional lumber.
Every episode of this show makes me incredibly grateful of modern technology and incredibly thankful for the pains our ancestors went through
This was so cool! Can't wait for the sawmill so you can compare this board with the milled ones.
Man, Lauren's so cool. I like how she's just making a snowman in the background while Andy is talking about the broken saw.
She even made one hit the dab lol
okay
How to make everything… snowmen included!! 😎
@@Cookiegluemight say it’s the *coolest* dab ever. (Sorry.)
I don't know man she might be doing a better job of making everything than he is. guess he is just going to have to unlock snow so he can make a snow man.
The person working the bottom of the saw were usually apprentices or lower paid workers and would sometimes go blind from repeated sawdust in their eyes. The more experienced and higher paid workers would work the top of the saw which is the origin of the phrase "Top Notch"
Remember that every iteration in history has dozens if not hundreds of years of innovation and refinement.
It’s perfectly ok to remake things once you have better tools, and the remade things will allow you to make other items to a higher standard.
They didn’t make the sawmill using a saw designed in the Iron Age after all.
And somehow we have computers like what
@@thndr_5468 I don't understand what you are trying to say.
@@ouzoloves Just that we somehow made computers out of what was already on the earth.
Andy fixing the broken saw, while Lauren is in the background making a snowman is very on brand, lol!
Also, it's so cool seeing you unlock your way through history with your experimental archaeology. It's amazing to think we're so close to the saw mill now
Lol this is *very* accurate.
Andy, I am a Forester who also forages and grows most of my own food and lumber and I hew logs into beams that dry in my tiny house for more future handmade buildings.
I love the information and effort you bring to this. But the hand tools at your disposal really aren't suited well for small board building. They're suited for timberframing.
I can take an 8' (half log) of soft maple from round log to square 7" X 7" beam in a couple hours.
And that's if I want it to be perfectly smooth.
Get good with an axe, draw shave and hand plane and the world is your oyster.
Keep doin' god's work. We love you.
Is "half log" a standard term? I've worked at a small sawmill for over 7 years and never heard a standard name for that. But almost every one of our logs comes from tree services, hopefully 6" over even lengths. But they're usually free, so we make do with what they give.
Sounds like you have a pretty fulfilling life. Thanks for sharing.
@@aidendevanney6536 I would really say he was trying to do demonstrative history by trying to enact what was depicted in those images, just as a curiosity thing to begin with. I obviously totally agree with what you said, but conisdering that, it isn't as totally silly or perhaps pointless if you consider "why"
I am very impressed with your perseverance in this project. I would have gotten bored before I got board.
A+ for wordplay.
Pretty cool project. For the amount of time one 2x4 took you, I can see why some people would favor log cabins over actual houses when building themselves a home with raw materials. Im very excited to see a water powered sawmill and compare the 2x4 from that with this one.
I could be completely wrong but most homes prior to industrial scale saw mills were either wattle and daub or brick.
@@Imaboss8ball or with timbers, but they were pretty small.
@@Imaboss8ball yes absolutely. In western Europe, houses were framed with cut logs and then filled in with wattle and daub. Other methods were to build with brick or stone.
Here cut stone was common for houses.
It's surprisingly effective.
Though wood was used for the roof.
There is no better way to describe what this channel is about for new subscribers. I really enjoy your experiments.
By using a draw knife you can remove the bark where dirt and small rocks are. Both will dull the saw blade and make the whole thing harder.
Right, and looking at the saws, some of them weren't jointed well, meaning a few teeth were doing most of the work and dulling quickly. Also not sure if the saws were set up with a cross cut file or not all that aggressive rip tooth. (Even a slightly positive rake might have been appropriate - 5 deg would have been fine, but they looked to be cut with a -30 deg rake.
Also oil/wax on the blade would have lessened the binding problem.
I wonder what the neighbors think of all this activity...and I hope you showed your hand-made ax to the guys cutting down the tree. They would have been mucho impressed.
Watching your 2x4 episode and wishing I had known you were looking for a tree. We are just an hour south of the cities and have 40 acres of wood. Lots of deadfall trees available for the taking if you need more for future projects.
I am surprised you guys didn't use a counter-weight method. Pulleys are fair game since they were around roughly ~2000yrs before Christ (2000 BCE, take your pick). Similar to how used a foot-pedal on your beginning lathe, a counterweight on a pulley probably would have been easier on the 2 of you. It's easier to have 2 people lifting and letting the weight pull the downstroke than a vertical "misery whip".
OR
It also would have been fair to do a water-powered sawmill. The Hierapolis sawmill dates to 3rd century AD.
Sure that would be harder longer initial investment to build, but also consider that a wheel could have been used so that all that was needed was a rowing / cranking motion.
In general, to cut wood, you want a thicker axe blade, a thinner one like you have is better for cutting down your enemies instead of cutting down trees
Broo idk why I died so hard to this post !!!! Skol
A lot of tutorials on things always started with already owning planks of wood and that always frustrated me as sombody who could never figure out how people got planks in the first place. Thank you for being the first person to show me without modern technology
Andy: spends 3 hours making several foot cut with a primitive handsaw
Me: spends 3 hours making several inch cut with modern handsaw
I would say that while that 2 X 4 cost $500, it was your first (and I'll guess your last by this method). This does, however, suffer from what so many things of this nature on RUclips does. And that is being a one-shot deal by inexperienced people. The improvement from the first to the second cut illustrated this point very well.
The second cut they only had to go through half as much material. But yeah they did have the experience of the first cut under their belts. If you were to do that all day for 6 days of the week you'd get pretty good at it after a while I'm sure. Sun up to sun down! That's why the ancients drank so much. Work all day, drink til you pass out then get up and do it all over again.
yeah this video makes their amateur skills very apparent. I wish they would have spent a little more time researching things properly rather than just brute forcing it for a video.
@@PabloEdvardo we all have to start somewhere. If we even start at all. Even in the best of circumstances pit sawing has a reputation for being not the most pleasant task ever devised.
I wonder what a competitive sawyer would've done when presented with that cut. A custom, hand built saw with the needs in mind can cut inches in seconds when used efficiently. With a bit of planning it would make a fun marathon, see how many feet they could do in an hour.
Sawing is definitely a skill. One that not many have these days. You probably already figured out, that rip saw teeth are the way to go when cutting along grain. There are techniques for sawing straight, although a frame saw is pretty easy at this.
I am always blown away with how committed you are to using the handmade tools when power tools would be a million times faster. It is immensely inspiring! Thank you for continuing to make some of the best content on the internet.
I'm glad you mentioned riving. Oak & Maple split or rive easily. A hand plane will smooth it fairly easily. A scrub plane moving across the grain can scoop out 1/4" at a time. I can split an 8', 24" diameter red oak log in ~ 1 hour. Choosing your log is crucial. No knots and straight grain.
Man. It`s nuts to see how long and how much effort it took. Thanks for doing it so we don`t have to!
By the way, have you considered tunning your saws so that the cut is directional, like on the pull or on the push only? I`m not certain but you might gain some effectiveness there.
I think it would have been interesting to see a comparison in cut time and result, between your handmade saws and a modern handsaw.
8:37 Your teeth are not ideal on your saw. What you'd need is to basically make two rows of teeth... so you make your triangles in the metal, like you did, but then every other one, you sharpen from back right to left front, and on the other ones, you sharpen from back left to right front. This will allow the saw to cut through the wood like a knife would, versus grind through the wood like file. Do that and you'll find cutting a LOT easier.
Got to disagree there I'm afraid. That gives you a crosscut toothing pattern - they are ripping.
While a cross cut filed sawblade can be used for ripping (cutting along the grain as they are), it's a lot less efficient. For ripping you want the 'many-chisel' approach that a rip filed saw gives.
Source: have my own framesaw that I use for similar jobs.
It helps if you actually use all of the saw too and unlike using the 2ft of saw they did, didn't do a very good job sharpening it either or securing the workpiece
Always happy when Lauren is in a video. She makes me smile everytime. I can't wait to see the sawmill!
Your willingness to take 12 hours to do a 10 minute job astounds me. Keep it up.
A little rough but you can see the potential. It definitely makes me appreciate modern machinery.
It's really awesome to see Lauren is still lending her talent's to HTME. She's definitely found a home. I'm impressed by the lengths you all go too. You guys rock!
This is essentially experimental archeology, which I think is one of the best avenues for learning how the world works.
It's amazing to think about all of the little advancements created to achieve a goal only figured out from experience.
11:17 Yeah, we see you making that snowman. Keep up the good work.
Honestly I'm always excited to see a video from this channel. I watch every single one. Love you guis.
It's always interesting seeing reminders of what apprentices were for haha
The way you guys power through with hand tools really gives me inspiration to keep going.
Small, slow steps still add up
i guess i already knew this. it's so hard to mill my own lumber, because i don't have land. i did mill some small boards last winter. i split them from a log, and then planed them down. if you find a good log and have a good axe, you can split almost perfect boards, and then it might be a lot of work but just get a solid hand plane and make them flat. took me probably 30 minutes per board, they were small, split from fire wood logs but they had a nice grain and i thought they looked nice. since i got my plane for like 18dollars and tuned it up myself. the only other cost was being able to hold the wood down on the bench for planing but that can be for free. work holding is as important as working ha ha
Is there any reason why you made your saw cut on both strokes? I would've thought working with gravity to cut only on the downstroke would make the upstroke lighter, given that you already have to push it through a cut that puts some pressure on the blade, and including the weight of the blade
Because that's the type of thing you don't think of until after you do it. It's really astonishing to see how many small things we take for granted are accounted for by engineers designing modern equipment
right, the tooth geometry here was a little funky.
Yes, that's how it was done historically. Also you try to use the whole blade and not just a fifth of it...
Saws sorta naturally cut on both strokes, but are typically made/sharpened to work better in 1 direction (pull or push stroke).
A big frame saw like this for sawing logs into lumber would have very large teeth, and cut very roughly. Maybe 1-4 teeth per inch (TPI). A saw you can buy at the hardware store for general carpentry is around 8-10 TPI, for reference.
Those big teeth let you chop big chunks of material out of the log, and have a lot of space for sawdust to gather between the teeth (called "gullets") while the saw is in the space that it creates in the wood (called the "kerf").
This type of work was a 2 person job, so rather than having 1 doing all the pushing, both can split the work. Plus, pushing from both sides throws the sawdust out from the gullets in both directions. If you just pushed down, then picked the saw back up again, you'd get sawdust stuck in the kerf, that slows down your sawing.
This makes me want to explore so much of DIY. Like there's so much I wish I could do, and you've made me realize that it absolutely can be done, with modern or old tools
Always a better day when HTME posts.
Sort of related - corn syrup, there are a few different plants in MN and IA you could hit up to learn the process.
It's pretty straightforward from cornstarch.
Watching Andy try to cut a tree down himself that's right next to power lines with jury-rigged equipment and a hand axe was nerve-wracking. Thank you for properly getting professionals for it.
This really goes to show how effective and cheap industrialization is long term. Great video as always!
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
After seeing your hand sawing setup, I might suggest better clamping of the material that is being cut. Having a rigid setup produces a more uniform cut and saves energy. A valiant first attempt.
it's kind of embarrassing how amateur their skills are
@PabloEdvardo I take it you're not a channel subscriber. At least not a long-time subscriber?
I love how you're fixing the saw blade and Lauren is just making a snowman in the background
I work at a lumberyard and run the main saw. We can take a 12" by 12' log and turn it into 2 3.5"x7"x12" beams and a 2x4n in about 20 seconds. Its an old saw but that's still impressive. All the scrap chips go across the road to a bio-powerplant that powers the mill and the entire town.
Lol, Lauren in the background making snowmen after the blade bent was a nice detail
Forestry student in the NE. I’m pretty sure the majority of soft wood framing lumber actually comes from the south. The dug fir of the PNW typically does make higher quality studs compared to the souther yellow pine in the south.
Love your channel I know you’ve fallen on some tough time, and your ability to persevere and can you reduce amazing content is deeply impressive
two comments our 1890s farm house has lots of rough cut lumber and the floor beams/joists are rough cut 2 sided logs and the rest of the lumber was rough cut around 2 x 4 but varies with every board we have measured. They didn't have 'home depot' in Texas in the late 1800's. They had cowboys, indians, and mexicans but everything was built by hand. We have learned alot during our remodel.
Great video! Been a fan since you started. Thank you.
If y’all do that entire thing by hand you have really done something to be proud of!
I hold the belief it was the invention of the saw mill that truly changed how we lived.
Cutting along/parallel to the grain is called "ripping", vs. "cross-cutting" across/perpendicular to the grain. As you discovered, ripping requires larger teeth than cross-cutting, as the chips from ripping are larger, so the trough between each tooth needs to be bigger to effectively clear them.
Always so inspiring how much work you all put into these projects!! Please keep up the good work as its very eye opening just how far civilization has come. A deep appreciation for the time we live in.
Exciting to see how your endevors in industrialization will turn out! You will do great 🤘
Honestly I love this show y’all are awesome
I am very glad that I saw this on youtube! ;) Great job Andy!
Can Patreon's see videos early or something ? The video came out like a hour ago and your comment is 20 hours ago
@@bigbird4481 Yes - you get an email alert that lets you see the video early.\
Your dedication is crazy! Wish general public was more curious to give you billions views!
The coolest thing is watching him during the paper making episode where he stumbled through the woods with a store bought axe. He didnt know how to walk in the woods, evaluate trees or swing an axe, it was painful to watqch him cut a tiny tree down. Its a cool transition to "heres the latest axe i built, we are gonna time lapse through this 12 inch tree."
Very interesting to see the tree to lumber steps taken by hand. I bet everyone was well sore are tired after this project.
That’s better than a lot of 2x4s I’ve seen
I've been here sense the original sandwich project. It is impressive to see how far you have come. I look forward to seeing what you do next.
I love trees!
I love Lauren in the background making a snowman while Andy is talking about the borked blade :D
200 years is a bit of an understatement, sawmills were invented 400+ years ago
Living out in the bush and seeing pro danger tree fallers work, the topping of this tree sketched me out to no end. Glad everything cane out great.
Even with modern tools cutting a log like this is hard work. Good job.
If someone is interested in something similar there is a German language video called "Dielsägen auf dem Schneideplatz" available on RUclips that follows the process from log to plank without the use of industrial or power tools.
Andy: yeah so we just totally bent this blade😕
Lauren: *rolling snowman in the background* 🙃
Next you have to make a handplane to square lumber!
keep up the cool projects! i love all of your stuff!!
I was an arborist for 16 years. The first quarter of the video was an emotional rollercoaster. Lol.
As someone who’s had to split logs for work this is incredibly impressive
Well you did it. Every time you start one of the projects, I wonder if it is possible. Thank you for bringing us along on this adventure.
Oh wow I’ve been watching you for months and didn’t realize you’re from MN! Awesome!
Great video, made my night a lot more fun! :)
Thank you so much for calling a professional. Watching the min 3-4 was very stressful.
Few things I have noticed.
Normally, those saws were large tooth with a more directional tooth, aimed at the down stroke.
Most pictures I have seen the people are cutting at more of a 45° angle. Also focus on only pulling the saw never push, you'll find it way easier, when you tire swap.
You could increase quality control by adding an adjustable thickness guide with in your frame:
Also if you put a small radius (convex curve) and you also add to your sawing speed:
Add a spring cord to the non sawyer side and you will be able to saw more efficiently with one person:
A few things I noticed:
-Should be using a rip cut style blade
-You chose pine, which is a good idea, because it is soft
-You chose pine, which is a bad idea, because yours was full of knots and it will want to be wonky even if it were to be cut perfectly straight.
-Maybe would have been a good idea to dry the wood near a fire (or fire*s*) over time so it would cut easier. I would imagine the amount of time spent in historic times would have justified that kind of care being put into making sure the timber/lumber was as well treated as possible to ease manufacturing
For the record, everything that makes a good ax for a weapon makes it a bad ax for a tree.
I knew it was htme but my first thought at seeing the thumbnail was 'thats just the price of wood these days'
You're in Minnesota?!? That's so awesome! Same.
Cool episode. I was waiting for you to tell us that holding the log vertically was easier than the pit or sawhorse method but you never commented on it. So, was it easier? I think letting gravity work with you as in the vertical method is probably the way to go IF you can secure the log so it doesn't move. I think you had some trouble with that which added to the difficulty.
Lauren is awesome. I'm glad to see her in your videos, again.
Awesome video, have you ever thought about using a thinner saw blade? I think you're getting a lot of resistance from the size of the blade and/or dull teeth.
Learning about the state you live in can be fun like living in Saint Paul Park
I see way to many deer in my backyard and I love it cause I love seeing them just run around and recently they’ve announced a housing project that we don’t know which wooded area to exact that is gonna ruin where I live…I live near the Mississippi River and it’s a lovely quiet place and with this if it’s in my backyard well there goes my fun during the fall and winter!
Minnesota sucks sometimes
my dad used to have a sawmill... until a giant piece of metal flew off and hit him in the head knocking him out cold.
So in unrelated news, we no longer have a sawmill.
Great video!
A sharp saw makes so much of a difference. keep it sharp.
I love that when the saw got bent we just see Lauren in the background making snowmen 😂
Nice Video, looking forward to the sawmill video ;)
The amount of work in this makes me want to sit down on my couch
when you cut a plank away from it's mother tree, it sometimes warps right away because it's structure is fighting the larger tree. I think that's most of the reason that the rough cut board isn't straight.
It'd be a ton of work, but I think you've unlocked everything you need to make a full sawmill, right? The design I'm thinking of wouldn't be very efficient, but it'd do the job with enough power. You could even simulate horses turning the mill by using an engine that has an explicit horsepower. If you think 4 horses would be able to turn the wheel, get a 4 hp engine with low speed and good torque and hook it up.
Isn’t horsepower not corresponding to one horse, so much as, like, some particular number of horses? Or am i remembering wrong?
@@drdca8263 I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but the unit we call horsepower was developed by James Watt to compare steam engines to horses. He had a horse turn a mill wheel, and since he knew the size and mass of the wheel, he could measure the power the horse was outputting. It could turn the wheel 144 times in one hour. So, a one-horsepower engine should be able to do the same with the same wheel. In reality, ofc, different horses have different strengths, and so the official definition of horsepower is a somewhat arbitrary number - either 745.7 Watts for imperial horsepower, or 735.5 Watts for Metric horsepower. And yes, that's watts, as in how we measure the power draw of light bulbs, and also (ironically) named after the aforementioned James Watt.
@@downsidebrian ok, thanks, seems I must have remembered wrong. I thought the original definition (before being redefined in terms of an SI unit) was based on an average of like, a group of horses, taking into account how they wouldn’t always be pulling with at their max power,
so I thought that that “what’s the peak power you can get from one horse” was substantially different from 1 horsepower,
but sounds like I was wrong about that
She was making the head of a Snowman ☃️!!! 11:12. I can see the bottom and middle of the snowman to the right, behind the sawhorses! LOL
And then the finished product at 13:35 and 13:55!!!
that cut at 16:20 hurt my heart
Excited for the saw mill
"Man the saw and line the planks, short straw gets the pit
Dub that oak frame with the adze so every strake will fit"
11:45: Theres a reason the short straw gets the pit.