The Conley trade was also huge for Minnesota. Conley is an unselfish vet that facilitates the offense and plays good defense. The perfect match next to Ant-man in the backcourt.
He's simply-put a *grown up* in the huddle that's still playing the game at a high level, helps resonate accountability. Adding in NAW was a nice icing on the cake to throw into the mix, basically replaced Vando.
@@cjryuk1909 our second best player missed 50+ games and we lost two critical pieces right before the playoffs. You can’t really judge a trade when all those circumstances are taken into account.
One important piece that you forgot to talk about is them adding Mike Conley. You look at Utah in the first half of last season and how they were actually still good compared to the second half of last season and then this season how bad they were after they traded him. He brings an elite level of leadership and floor general skills to the team and at the same time is able to just mesh well with any team while elevating all the players on the floor around him.
I think Ant officially taking over on offense has been the biggest benefit to this team. KAT is a great offensive supporting piece and Gobert can just hone in on defense. Hoping the Wolves can keep it rolling into the rest of the season and playoffs.
I'm impressed that you kind of admitted you were wrong. The absolute trashing of the Timberwolves last year got completely out of hand and no one would put any sort of validity to Kat being hurt as the problem.
Absolutely. The national media just seemed to completely forget that KAT missed the majority of the season. He also began the season under 100%, having been hospitalized just prior to the start of the year. Its a kind of deliberate ignorance.
@@scottgibson6022 The funniest part was people saying “how long are we gonna keep trying this KAT and Gobert experiment before they realize they don’t fit together” Heard that a lot in the off-season. Acting like those 2 have played 3 full seasons together.
The only reason gobert didn't have post season success with the Jazz was because the rest of the team refused to play any defense. Now he has other guys who will do it and surprise, they are great.
Im a nuggets fan, and I'm always gonna cheer for them, but if any other team were to win a chip i wouldnt mind if it was the timberwolves over us. I love seeing small market teams succeed, rather than it just being the lakers or Golden State over and over and over
As a pistons fan, loved watching the Nuggets last year and love watching yall both now. Hopefully Ant and Jokic are still dominating in 5 years so we can get some more good games
Small market team? Thanks for the love but I mean in a league with San Antonio, Portland and OKC ... Minnesota is not small market and is about the same market size as Denver😅😊
Most people (not me) just hate Rudy Gobert. He's a 3 time Defensive Player of the Year and damn good player, but since certain people hate him (Shaq, Gilbert Arenas and Draymond) and the stupid fans and the social media high school follows them, nothing he does will ever be good to them. Just like Dillion Brooks. He could win a championship and cure cancer and they would still hate him. A lot of it is because he is French (everytime they talk about him they mock his accent or mention he's French) and he is French and lightskinned combined.
@@buzzerbeater3350because wemby can cook everyone offensively so he has the respect… In US you respect offense over defense And gobert his first quality are defense and he frustrated many ppl with 3x dpoy and many nba players are limited offensively in the rim against him and stats are going down against him… Thats why a lot of haters 😂
@@jeunewakandais9051 wemby is shooting poorly. but his defense makes up for it on the perimeter. golbert was always bad there but hes getting better now. also golbert did the covid thing which made most fans hate his guts. if golbert keeps up this defense in playoffs he will be loved again.
Perople don't understand the value of having a defensive presence like Gobert. I can understand how the trade could easily look like an overpay, but we've learned that not all overpays are necessarily bad
I think that’s the point of this video. He’s not back pedaling but more like as bad as the trade as Gobert was the perfect piece for this team as it is built.
To be honest the Rudy Gobert trade wasn't the worst trade of that off season. The Dejounte Murray trade set up the Rudy Gobert trade. Murray was traded for 3 1st round picks and Gallinari. Murray made 1 all-star team and 2nd team all-defense. At least Gobert was a 3-time Defensive Player of the Year, 4 time all-star and 6 time all-defense. The Murray trade set up the Gobert trade and others afterwards.
Nah that’s actually a pretty fair trade. Maybe a slight overpay but Dejounte is a good player. Whereas Gobert damn near got an Anthony Davis/KD type deal
@@henry7486 lol that's not a slight overpay. it is a hefty overpay. also that trade did nothing cause they're still dogshit on defense whereas the gobert trade is starting to show the results on the defensive end
@@henry7486 Dejounte is a good player but Gobert is an elite one so... and also the trade package AD and KD got were AFTER a public trade request so that was almost half the actual value. If we got Gobert for half the value of AD and KD, then that is a great ass deal imo.
How come trading for offensive superstars like dame is ok to give away the whole farm but its not okay to trade the whole farm for a generational center 3x dpoy in rudy. Plus we didnt even give up alot, if bench players is alot then idk
Because American ball dominant guard.. Even though guards are a dime a dozen as there are more 6'5 people than 7ftrs... Wasn't an overpay for CLE to get Mitchell or ATL to get Murray... But anything would be "too much" for Gobert...😊
Tim Connelly was very confident. He said after they got Gobert, all the first round draft picks they paid are gonna be late 20s. So those draft picks would not be as pricy as it looks now.
That’s what I thought about the Cavs trade last year, look at them now. We don’t know what the team will look like years down the line. They owe Utah picks until the end of the decade.
As a Wolves fan, I rejoiced after this trade. Everyone is so quick to put KAT in a box as a center because he’s 7’, but he plays his best basketball on the perimeter where he knocks down 3s at a 40% clip and is deadly driving to the rim. He has also always been a liability as a rim protector. With Gobert in the fold, that problem no longer exists.
As a Swedish NBA fan I've taken a quote from soccer that goes like this ''Goals wins you games, defense wins you titels'' (championchips in this case). I got so hyped when the Rudy trade happend but last year I was acctually so confused and scared that they messed up everything, up until the post season against the Nuggets. This season they sure surpriced me but still, I saw this comming as soon as the trade was announced.
Nov 25, 2023 Minnesota ranks in the top 3 in the NBA in defensive rating, blocks per game, mid-range field goal% and is fourth in net rating. With a 11-4 record, they are currently first place in the West.
"The value of the Gobert trade was terrible, but it might be the missing piece to getting the T-wolves to the Finals (and maybe a championship)?" [paraphrased]. Interesting statement. Perhaps the people making the trade place more value on winning big now than keeping assets to be a decent, but non-championship caliber team in the future. Utah wasn't going to trade Gobert for less. The trade has not transformed the Utah Jazz yet. Maybe it will in the future. But right now, the T-wolves have the potential to show that they have moved from a team among many with great talent to a team that has put the whole package together. If it works, I would say that is a pretty good trade.
In all honesty, looking now, how terrible is the trade really? What exactly did Minnesota give up? What was the best player they gave up? Kessler? Other than that they gave up nothing of true value that would’ve actually been better than what they replaced them with. And the picks will be late firsts. And getting Gobert far outweighs that loss considering what his addition has turned the Wolves into
for being a fan of a team living in the high lottery for the better part of 2 decades, i can say this, i dont give a shit about late 1st round draft picks, and am glad jaden mcdaniels is still on the team considering keeping him cost us to send out like 2 firsts himself. role players given up for that had to happen to keep the core of ant kat mcdaniels together while also having to match salaries. im happy we made the trade, because it teaches Ant and Jaden how to win early, not like every other top 1st round draft pick who this team had and was losing losing losing.
Teams can't play small against Gobert in MN because of our S class perimeter defenders in McDaniels and Ant. A lot of our bench players are top tier defenders that are streaky shooters.
The value was terrible but MN is better for it? That's incoherent. As a MN fan, we have up guys we didn't have min for anyway, and picks. How many mid level picks is a DPOY worth? Seems right to me. The only argument is if the Jazz would have done it for less, which who knows?
Couple things as a Wolves fan: 1. Naz Reid. Him being ready off the bench any time Rudy has a bad matchup is very rarely talked about. Minny fans will know, though. 2. That trade "value" that you keep talking about is way overrated. Picks are overrated especially when you already have two All-NBA players that you want to keep happy. Ant and KAT will be gone after a few years of tanking for those picks to be high enough for any real value. Realistically, those will land post-lottery. As a "win now" trade, the deal is fine. Who even cares about Vando, Beasley, Bev, Kessler, when Rudy and Jaden alone have the same defensive value and frees up roster slots for more versatile dudes like NAW and SloMo. 3. You're giving Ant way too much solo credit. Love the guy and he's him for sure, but this is far from a carry job like you're making it sound. The team is very well built and has players who know their role and play it. Mike, NAW, Naz are killing it and often play good enough to cover when either Ant and KAT have bad shooting nights (which have happened surprisingly often so far). I understand Ant is the exciting player that the league sells to casuals, but this team is very, very well built. I'd even go as far and say that Rudy gives this team its identity more than Ant does. That's it. Imma drop this for you guys 🤓. Awooooooo.
Going to Ditto the people calling out the importance of swapping Dlo for Mike Conley at the trade deadline last year. The fit is so much more seamless given how much Ant needs to ball in his hands. He's a great catch and shoot 3pt shooter and has synergy with Rudy in the PnR to involve him in the offense. Mike is also the floor general to set up the offense and get people in the right spots and despite his age he actually cares about defense and isn't a liability there like Dlo usually is. That means only KAT can be targeted by opposing offenses but he's playing the best defense of his career and has been a major plus there defensively so far this year. With no weak link defensively, and Gobert cleaning things up in the paint, their defense should remain elite all year. Top 5 minimum but definitely a favorite to be #1. Offensively, Finch just needs to make sure 1 of either Ant or KAT are out there on offense at all times and let KAT bully small ball defenders in the post more often. Main weaknesses are defensive rebounding, especially long rebounds from missed 3s, and the lack of a true back up PG. Shake Milton has been disappointing to start the year and the team is going to have to either trade for a back up PG at the deadline or hope Jordan McLaughlin comes back healthy and effective to ensure the offense stops sputtering when Conley is on the bench. If they fix those issues they will be among the favorites in the conference with Denver, OKC, Phoenix, etc.
Whaaaat? RUclipsrs jumping to conclusions without allowing time for players to integrate properly and form a team? Never seen before! Thanks for bringing attention to this!
KAT seems willing to give 100% on defense this year even if hes not the best big defender. He also seems to be accepting the #2 role and balling out when the team needs a boost
I always thought this trade was fine. Most cant name the players they gave up, outside of Vanderbilt (who isnt a clear starter), and the draft picks aren't valuable if the Wolves make the playoffs. By the time the picks come due, the Wolves will basically inherit a playoff spot as Lakers, Clips, Suns, and Warriors all age out
People were gassing up Pat Bev and Vando 😂. Like the Wolves gave up 4 all star players and top 5 picks. In reality it’s a couple stater level players max.
@@blakelarson5005 DUDE!! "Vander-Built for the postseason" Dudes can't even get playing time!! Is Malik Beasley putting up 20ppg? I highly doubt it. All MIN did was match salaries...
I'm a jazz fan so I know how much hate Rudy gets and when he plays great they tend to ignore it. He took most of the blame for our playoff failures and honestly when looking back the rest of our team was to blame for defensive failures. Rudy has his issues but I can't blame him for all of it
I didn't think they'd be this good. Rudy Gobert leading the best defence in the league is not all that surprising though and has translated to the Wolves having a base of sorts to outscore opponents. It'll be interesting to see how Finch deals with playing two non-switchable bigs come playoff time.
You left out Naz Reid coming off of the bench. He has been a life saver coming off of the bench, and should be in the running for 6th man of the year. Center for 6th Man??? You heard me right.
Enough with this talk of the Wolves “giving up too much” for Gobert. We traded a bunch of guys who wouldn’t see the court in our current rotation and picks that will be in the 20-30 range. If the Jazz get 2-3 rotation guys from those picks that still doesn’t even come close to the value Rudy adds for us.
Game is results driven but too many people are emotion and narrative driven (including me lmao). People were calling this one of the worse trades every because they thought Rudy was "overrated." Nothing about numbers or basketball....
Going from D-Lo who felt he was underutilized and a third option in MN, to a real vet like Conley Jr. was the best move. Unselfish, a sharpshooter when he does need to step up if others aren't making shots, and keeps the team focused and better collectively. Like when Cassell or Billups was paired alongside KG back in the day
I still am an advocate for they didn't give up too much. They sent multiple role caliber players for an all defensive all star caliper player. And sure you can argue that Kessler has been good and has more years ahead of him but its still largely unproven, and adding Gobert made the team ready to compete now. Obviously the jazz weren't interested in players from MN they just traded them to balance the books, as proof they only have one player from that trade left on their roster. Adding in 4 first round picks seems like a lot for sure, although KAT, Gobert, Edwards, and McDaniels are now all secured long term in MN. With that core they wolves should be a playoff team each and every year, so those picks become late 1st rounders which are highly hit or miss depending on scouting you do I would argue your just as likely to find a promising talent, not to mention cheaper talent, in round 2 as you are in the late first round. If something goes wrong and things aren't working out, they trade one of their main pieces and recoup some picks back.
So what trade could MN have made for what player to have a similar impact, team fit, skill ect. as Goebert that didn't cost them as much as the Goebert trade? Keep in mind this is the bad luck, low success, small market Timberwolves we're talking about, a lot of players are not going to want to play there. I agree the trade was very expensive but MN had what is for them a very, very rare opportunity, they had two home grown stars in their primes (they might be the worst at drafting in history, not joking). If they don't start getting some post season success these star are going to leave in free agency. So they had to do something. And the odds are those draft picks weren't going to hit anyway (again keep in mind they have limited trade options because players don't want to play there).
I was thinking murray from atl... kept picks but more importantly. Keeping Kessler.. but this works. Those picks will be in 20s anyway. All the players traded don't start anywhere. And kessler regressed year 2
How was it "expensive"?? MIN matched salaries with bums like Beasley, PatBev and some guy named Balmoro... Not like they gave up an "Evan Mobley" or "Chet"...
Timberwolves is playing amazing basketball. I am an ardent fan of Anthony Edwards, and I am really excited. Hope they play as well in the post season too.
@@cvombaur1835right but if the Wolves make the finals in the next 3-4 years then it was worth it. If Ant edwards leaves in the next 3-4 years the Wolves definitely lost
It does sound like a lot but if you look at it it’s not bad. It’s not like 4 lottery picks. Any decent team with Gobert is going to be picking at the end of the first round so these are generally just going to be role players. You might luck into a good player but if you look at the players selected at the end of the 1st a lot of them are out of the league. And Gobert is one of the best players to ever play in the NBA. Any team with him is automatically top ten in defense, single handedly. He’s about to get his 4th defensive player of the year award. He’s elite. So it seems like a good trade.
that's the price you pay for being a small market team imo. i mean look at the jrue holiday trade and the dejounte trade and compare it to the trades the clippers and lakers made the past trade deadline and it shows that bigger market teams def have advantages over the smaller ones
The market got messed up when the Hawks traded 3 firsts for a 1-time all star the week prior. The Wolves had no choice but to give up 4 picks for a guy with 3 dpoys
As a fan of Minnesota sports in general I just want one of our big 4 pro teams to win a championship. If we have to give up 10 years of our future to win a championship now I’m good with it.
@@charlieash35THIS!!!!! Murray is NEVER cited by these RUclipsrs as an "overpayment", only Gobert!! Empty numbers on a tanking team vs THREE TIME DPOY?!? Not even close!! I know who I'm spending my money on!!
HUGE overpay ≠ it won't work both were true in this situation, Minnesotta overpaid like hell but ultimately made it work on the court after a year or so
People overrate picks. Wolves and Kings had top 10 picks for a decade and the two of them combined could barely draft a single star. That resulted in them never making the playoffs.
Weird to keep hammering on this clearly wrong idea that maximizing return value is the most important thing in evaluating a trade. Seems pretty clear from this example and just from thinking it through that if you already have sufficient value on hand, marginal value beyond that point (from your perspective) is much lower. You can “afford to buy expensive things,” as it were. If you’re in that situation and that’s your trading strategy, then a value-maximization critique isn’t meaningfully describing reality.
if they make a couple of years in deep playoff runs it becomes a high priced trade instead of the worst trade in basketball history. If Rudy's groin or what what obviously affecting him last season allows him the bounce and mobiliy we've seen so far into spring, deep playoff run is possible. He's heatlhy and has a year of settling into spacing schemes on offense and defense.
If they make the finals or win the chip it 100% isn't. Paul George trade is worse than this one. Trading late first round picks is worth a DPOY player who rebounds 15x a game
Before the Gobert trade Denver, Cleveland, Milwaukee were too big for KAT. KAT needed a bigger, defensive player next to him so he could focus on offense. Ant went to another level and now everyone is seeing the results.
ANT still isn't playing great. He's a little inconsistent and his 3 ball is not falling but KAT embracing being the #2 scoring option and letting Gobert focus on defense has worked out for everyone. They really can use a true point guard with Conley being old and unproductive
I am a gobert fan for a while This year is interesting: He is really fitter than before running fast side to side His Lateral move is quick But moreover he kind of reinvent his defense : he is defending much higher than before , Covering more field and switching very often I think the key is Ant really buying in the defensive mindset in order to be a contender (what Mitchel never did and continue not to do)
I get this sinking suspicion you don't like the value of the trade. Maybe it was the 10,000 times you said it through the course of this video, but it might've come from somewhere else. The draft is and always will be a crapshoot. I'd 100% prefer having Rudy who fills a massive need for the team over a couple of unproven guys who could be major busts or unproductive for a length of time and waste the prime of AE and the new and improved KAT.
If they win a chip I’ll change my mind but if not it’s still gonna be one of the worst trades in my opinion, way too much for a single player that’s a liability on offense, but hey if they figure it out then good on them
Anthony Edwards is a very very good basketball player. I feel as though at time is that look a little bit better than they actually are. Meaning that his efficiency isn’t the best.
He's misunderstanding Gobert's defense. He can guard small line-ups incredibly well. Utah's guards could not stay in front of their man. If Gobert wasn't staying in the middle, it was an open lane every time.
I agree if their successful in the playoffs A+ but from a value standpoint I liked the Conley but long term walker Kessler is a better fit for Anthony Edwards because Robert is already starting to decline and if walker Kessler healthy this year plays at least 35 mins a game he could average 3 blocks per game and with a lot of draft picks to come to the future this might be the next okc
**prior to watching the video** I don’t want to hear it from you, especially when you’ve roasted this team CONSTANTLY. You roasted this team, you roasted Gobert… July 1 2022: The Rudy Gobert trade is awful Dec 8 2022: The Rudy Gobert trade as historically bad There’s visible receipts… **after calming down and watching the video** Yeah. You’re right Tucker
As a Wolves fan I will always understand that they overpaid, but they needed to in order to get someone of Gobert's caliber. Small market teams do not attract top FA talent and in order to retain your generational talent (Ant) you need to surround him with these pieces to make a run for a championship and not have him run off himself. Exhibit A - Kevin Garnett. It is for this reason they needed to overpay and I was always totally fine with this. You need to take risks like this to take that next step.
What changed in Minnesota? Nothing, young players are improving including a future superstar (no i dont think Ant is ALREADY a superstar, but hes right there) and they had a drastic personnel change that took a season to figure out. They were never bad, i dont understand this media narrative
No this trade was still bad lol. Gave up so many picks and are in salary cap hell due to Gobert's massive contract. This is going to impede their ability to keep up a decent bench down the line while praying that Gobert doesn't regress cause hes like 31. Jazz are going to keep feasting and don't have to worry about the salary cap issues, so they can sign key players without worrying about hitting the cap and trade those picks to chase a star if they want to contend quicker. People think wayyyyy too short term and it shows. Well, at least they aren't the Pistons, Spurs, or Wizards so 😅.
Hehehe. Foolish that you assumed it was a superstar that the Jazz are going to target. That being said, if the Jazz don't try to monopolize the role player free agency market this year, then consider their management incompetent. You might see some insane and dumb contracts and trades happening this offseason for some starters if the Jazz pull it off, but don't tell me I didn't warn you.
To me it wasn’t getting Gobert, it’s mortgaging the future for him. They gave up a lot of team chemistry for a guy that wasn’t known for great chemistry. I thought they’d be great last year, and I’m not surprised by this year, but as a Thunder fan, when Russ and KD were ready to really contend, and needed one more piece, they didn’t have the capital to get it. Draft picks are the currency of the NBA, and if in 2 years they’re on the cusp, they may need to get one more guy, and they’ll have no draft picks to do it… well, until they trade KAT.
As a Timberwolves fan, I agree we gave up too much, but can anyone point out which was the best asset we gave up? Ant is signed all the way through 2029, so the draft picks shouldn't be too high either.
The way he describes how gobert and kat compliments each other is like how on 2k when you run double bigs and the 2s in 2k17 (stretch and glass cleaners)because the fact that if at shoots gobert will always have a rebound and they also will have another creator out there
Hopefully this year puts to bed the "Gobert can't guard small guys" narrative, to be replaced by "Gobert can't guard 5 small guys by himself". If perimeter players like Jaden & Ant rotate in the postseason, the easy shots of the Clippers series won't exist.
On paper that trade isn’t bad at all, comparing it to a shai and clippers trade for exp. The role players traded aren’t preforming (maybe Malik) and pick wise walker is a the only bummer.
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The Conley trade was also huge for Minnesota. Conley is an unselfish vet that facilitates the offense and plays good defense. The perfect match next to Ant-man in the backcourt.
As a Jazz fan I miss Conley
Agreed. Conley low-key underrated team orchestrator.
Yeah but his old player it's not gonna last long.
@@Dakidpepebetter than Dlo who was cancer to the locker room and overpaid
He's simply-put a *grown up* in the huddle that's still playing the game at a high level, helps resonate accountability. Adding in NAW was a nice icing on the cake to throw into the mix, basically replaced Vando.
As a wolves fan, I am not surprised at all, love seeing all the media switch up on their opinion on the trade lol
This is no hate towards you tho I love the content
I’ve been saying this! So many videos that were predicting the west standings had us MISSING THE PLAY IN which was absolutely crazy to me.
I mean how do you expect anyone to call that trade a success after last year??
@@cjryuk1909 our second best player missed 50+ games and we lost two critical pieces right before the playoffs. You can’t really judge a trade when all those circumstances are taken into account.
@@cjryuk1909 KAT missed more than 50 games last year… do you expect them to play well when their second best player was injured almost all season?
One important piece that you forgot to talk about is them adding Mike Conley. You look at Utah in the first half of last season and how they were actually still good compared to the second half of last season and then this season how bad they were after they traded him. He brings an elite level of leadership and floor general skills to the team and at the same time is able to just mesh well with any team while elevating all the players on the floor around him.
He is the X factor. Totally agree!!
The main reason the Jazz flamed out in the playoffs after getting the #1 seed in 2021 was that Conley got hurt.
He's Chauncey Billups.
Conley was big.
Agreed... People forget that the wolves got Conley, New, and 3 2nd rd picks for dlo... HUGE
Mike Conley is a huge part also. Dude brings up everyone, is a solid leader/mentor for Ant, and is an assist machine.
I think Ant officially taking over on offense has been the biggest benefit to this team. KAT is a great offensive supporting piece and Gobert can just hone in on defense. Hoping the Wolves can keep it rolling into the rest of the season and playoffs.
All ant is missing is the play making
Like his play making at bad but if he gets better at it he gon be a real problem
As a pistons fan I have loved watching the T-Wolves instead. I’ll hoping this is the year for them they are such a good team
KAT has been their top scorer the last 2 weeks
@@RealJuiceWrldbecause he is able to attack single coverages and an open lane because other teams have to hone in on Ant
Ant is still the core reason all of this works out, and Kat being healthy and adjusting
I'm impressed that you kind of admitted you were wrong. The absolute trashing of the Timberwolves last year got completely out of hand and no one would put any sort of validity to Kat being hurt as the problem.
Absolutely. The national media just seemed to completely forget that KAT missed the majority of the season. He also began the season under 100%, having been hospitalized just prior to the start of the year. Its a kind of deliberate ignorance.
@@scottgibson6022 The funniest part was people saying “how long are we gonna keep trying this KAT and Gobert experiment before they realize they don’t fit together” Heard that a lot in the off-season. Acting like those 2 have played 3 full seasons together.
Adding Mike Conley was the real missing piece
This is facts and Gobert wouldn’t have worked on offense if it wasn’t for Conley
Needed an adult in the room so badly when DLo was at point
@@jonandersen7208 great way to put it
The only reason gobert didn't have post season success with the Jazz was because the rest of the team refused to play any defense. Now he has other guys who will do it and surprise, they are great.
Im a nuggets fan, and I'm always gonna cheer for them, but if any other team were to win a chip i wouldnt mind if it was the timberwolves over us. I love seeing small market teams succeed, rather than it just being the lakers or Golden State over and over and over
Thank you! Wolves fan here, and I was happy when y’all won last year!
As a pistons fan, loved watching the Nuggets last year and love watching yall both now. Hopefully Ant and Jokic are still dominating in 5 years so we can get some more good games
Lakers only one once recently
Small market team? Thanks for the love but I mean in a league with San Antonio, Portland and OKC ... Minnesota is not small market and is about the same market size as Denver😅😊
@@Jesseyoutuber My Timberwolves are a small market team.
Most people (not me) just hate Rudy Gobert. He's a 3 time Defensive Player of the Year and damn good player, but since certain people hate him (Shaq, Gilbert Arenas and Draymond) and the stupid fans and the social media high school follows them, nothing he does will ever be good to them. Just like Dillion Brooks. He could win a championship and cure cancer and they would still hate him. A lot of it is because he is French (everytime they talk about him they mock his accent or mention he's French) and he is French and lightskinned combined.
Wemby is French and light-skinned. No one is mocking him.
@@buzzerbeater3350because wemby can cook everyone offensively so he has the respect…
In US you respect offense over defense
And gobert his first quality are defense and he frustrated many ppl with 3x dpoy and many nba players are limited offensively in the rim against him and stats are going down against him…
Thats why a lot of haters 😂
@@jeunewakandais9051 wemby is shooting poorly. but his defense makes up for it on the perimeter. golbert was always bad there but hes getting better now. also golbert did the covid thing which made most fans hate his guts. if golbert keeps up this defense in playoffs he will be loved again.
PREACHING!!!!
Utah got ZERO All Stars in return for Gobert... but somehow MIN "overpaid" mm
@@buzzerbeater3350
Wait til he loses....
Perople don't understand the value of having a defensive presence like Gobert. I can understand how the trade could easily look like an overpay, but we've learned that not all overpays are necessarily bad
I think that’s the point of this video. He’s not back pedaling but more like as bad as the trade as Gobert was the perfect piece for this team as it is built.
@@bandito241 oh 100%, I’m agreeing w him haha
Gobert on a much better situation right now playing with defenders around him and doesn’t have to worry much offensively with Ant and KAT
To be honest the Rudy Gobert trade wasn't the worst trade of that off season. The Dejounte Murray trade set up the Rudy Gobert trade. Murray was traded for 3 1st round picks and Gallinari. Murray made 1 all-star team and 2nd team all-defense. At least Gobert was a 3-time Defensive Player of the Year, 4 time all-star and 6 time all-defense. The Murray trade set up the Gobert trade and others afterwards.
Nah that’s actually a pretty fair trade. Maybe a slight overpay but Dejounte is a good player. Whereas Gobert damn near got an Anthony Davis/KD type deal
@@henry7486 lol that's not a slight overpay. it is a hefty overpay. also that trade did nothing cause they're still dogshit on defense whereas the gobert trade is starting to show the results on the defensive end
How DARE you praise a foreign big over a USA guard?!?!
HOW DARE YOU?!?!?
Did CLE overpay for Mitchel?
SURE.
But he's a USA guard, so that's okay...
@@henry7486 Dejounte is a good player but Gobert is an elite one so... and also the trade package AD and KD got were AFTER a public trade request so that was almost half the actual value. If we got Gobert for half the value of AD and KD, then that is a great ass deal imo.
How come trading for offensive superstars like dame is ok to give away the whole farm but its not okay to trade the whole farm for a generational center 3x dpoy in rudy. Plus we didnt even give up alot, if bench players is alot then idk
The draft compensation was a bit overkill but I agree with your main point.
Right? The disrespect for a first ballot Hall of Famer in his prime is fucking silly
Because American ball dominant guard..
Even though guards are a dime a dozen as there are more 6'5 people than 7ftrs...
Wasn't an overpay for CLE to get Mitchell or ATL to get Murray... But anything would be "too much" for Gobert...😊
@@jsports2665
Late picks from a playoff team
... Take LUCK to turn into success (odds on getting the NEXT "Gobert" at the 27th pick is rare)...
@@jsports2665so we gave up a couple 8th graders or high school freshmen. It has paid dividends so far. All of this is for Edwards growth and talent
It’s almost like people should stop changing their opinions on something this complicated after every single game or something.
Not a single pup fan was questioning not getting rid of jaden. I kid you not, he was the second most beloved person last year.
So weird seeing my team get so much coverage, but I love it
Tim Connelly was very confident. He said after they got Gobert, all the first round draft picks they paid are gonna be late 20s. So those draft picks would not be as pricy as it looks now.
That’s what I thought about the Cavs trade last year, look at them now. We don’t know what the team will look like years down the line. They owe Utah picks until the end of the decade.
This trade in a nutshell was horribly beautiful
As a Wolves fan, I rejoiced after this trade. Everyone is so quick to put KAT in a box as a center because he’s 7’, but he plays his best basketball on the perimeter where he knocks down 3s at a 40% clip and is deadly driving to the rim. He has also always been a liability as a rim protector. With Gobert in the fold, that problem no longer exists.
As a Swedish NBA fan I've taken a quote from soccer that goes like this ''Goals wins you games, defense wins you titels'' (championchips in this case). I got so hyped when the Rudy trade happend but last year I was acctually so confused and scared that they messed up everything, up until the post season against the Nuggets. This season they sure surpriced me but still, I saw this comming as soon as the trade was announced.
We have that saying in American football too. Defense wins Championships.
Nov 25, 2023 Minnesota ranks in the top 3 in the NBA in defensive rating, blocks per game, mid-range field goal% and is fourth in net rating. With a 11-4 record, they are currently first place in the West.
"The value of the Gobert trade was terrible, but it might be the missing piece to getting the T-wolves to the Finals (and maybe a championship)?" [paraphrased]. Interesting statement. Perhaps the people making the trade place more value on winning big now than keeping assets to be a decent, but non-championship caliber team in the future. Utah wasn't going to trade Gobert for less. The trade has not transformed the Utah Jazz yet. Maybe it will in the future. But right now, the T-wolves have the potential to show that they have moved from a team among many with great talent to a team that has put the whole package together. If it works, I would say that is a pretty good trade.
Giving up the extra first round picks to save Jaden McDaniels was so huge
In all honesty, looking now, how terrible is the trade really? What exactly did Minnesota give up? What was the best player they gave up? Kessler? Other than that they gave up nothing of true value that would’ve actually been better than what they replaced them with. And the picks will be late firsts. And getting Gobert far outweighs that loss considering what his addition has turned the Wolves into
for being a fan of a team living in the high lottery for the better part of 2 decades, i can say this, i dont give a shit about late 1st round draft picks, and am glad jaden mcdaniels is still on the team considering keeping him cost us to send out like 2 firsts himself. role players given up for that had to happen to keep the core of ant kat mcdaniels together while also having to match salaries. im happy we made the trade, because it teaches Ant and Jaden how to win early, not like every other top 1st round draft pick who this team had and was losing losing losing.
SANE PERSON!!
Imagine crying over losing Malik Beasley and some guy named Balmoro
..
As a wolves fan i love watching people cash in on that hindsight 😂
Teams can't play small against Gobert in MN because of our S class perimeter defenders in McDaniels and Ant. A lot of our bench players are top tier defenders that are streaky shooters.
KAT's has been playing lights out defense, but nobody is talking about it.
Mike Conley big addition in Timberwolves & Karl-Anthony Towns healthy this season 💪🔥💪
The value was terrible but MN is better for it? That's incoherent. As a MN fan, we have up guys we didn't have min for anyway, and picks. How many mid level picks is a DPOY worth? Seems right to me. The only argument is if the Jazz would have done it for less, which who knows?
Couple things as a Wolves fan:
1. Naz Reid. Him being ready off the bench any time Rudy has a bad matchup is very rarely talked about. Minny fans will know, though.
2. That trade "value" that you keep talking about is way overrated. Picks are overrated especially when you already have two All-NBA players that you want to keep happy. Ant and KAT will be gone after a few years of tanking for those picks to be high enough for any real value. Realistically, those will land post-lottery. As a "win now" trade, the deal is fine. Who even cares about Vando, Beasley, Bev, Kessler, when Rudy and Jaden alone have the same defensive value and frees up roster slots for more versatile dudes like NAW and SloMo.
3. You're giving Ant way too much solo credit. Love the guy and he's him for sure, but this is far from a carry job like you're making it sound. The team is very well built and has players who know their role and play it. Mike, NAW, Naz are killing it and often play good enough to cover when either Ant and KAT have bad shooting nights (which have happened surprisingly often so far). I understand Ant is the exciting player that the league sells to casuals, but this team is very, very well built. I'd even go as far and say that Rudy gives this team its identity more than Ant does.
That's it. Imma drop this for you guys 🤓.
Awooooooo.
Going to Ditto the people calling out the importance of swapping Dlo for Mike Conley at the trade deadline last year. The fit is so much more seamless given how much Ant needs to ball in his hands. He's a great catch and shoot 3pt shooter and has synergy with Rudy in the PnR to involve him in the offense. Mike is also the floor general to set up the offense and get people in the right spots and despite his age he actually cares about defense and isn't a liability there like Dlo usually is. That means only KAT can be targeted by opposing offenses but he's playing the best defense of his career and has been a major plus there defensively so far this year. With no weak link defensively, and Gobert cleaning things up in the paint, their defense should remain elite all year. Top 5 minimum but definitely a favorite to be #1. Offensively, Finch just needs to make sure 1 of either Ant or KAT are out there on offense at all times and let KAT bully small ball defenders in the post more often.
Main weaknesses are defensive rebounding, especially long rebounds from missed 3s, and the lack of a true back up PG. Shake Milton has been disappointing to start the year and the team is going to have to either trade for a back up PG at the deadline or hope Jordan McLaughlin comes back healthy and effective to ensure the offense stops sputtering when Conley is on the bench. If they fix those issues they will be among the favorites in the conference with Denver, OKC, Phoenix, etc.
Only beef I have with this is that you didn’t mention Mike Conley. Don’t think any of this would be happening without Mike.
Whaaaat? RUclipsrs jumping to conclusions without allowing time for players to integrate properly and form a team? Never seen before! Thanks for bringing attention to this!
iit's crazy that everybody gave them like D,C last season because of the trades
You failed to menton conley over dlo, naz reid, and how good the bench is. We have 3 bigs, not 2
“The Rudy Gobert Trade is Already HISTORICALLY BAD” “The Rudy Gobert Trade is Awful” stay on that side lil bro
KAT seems willing to give 100% on defense this year even if hes not the best big defender. He also seems to be accepting the #2 role and balling out when the team needs a boost
I always thought this trade was fine. Most cant name the players they gave up, outside of Vanderbilt (who isnt a clear starter), and the draft picks aren't valuable if the Wolves make the playoffs.
By the time the picks come due, the Wolves will basically inherit a playoff spot as Lakers, Clips, Suns, and Warriors all age out
People were gassing up Pat Bev and Vando 😂. Like the Wolves gave up 4 all star players and top 5 picks. In reality it’s a couple stater level players max.
@@blakelarson5005
DUDE!!
"Vander-Built for the postseason"
Dudes can't even get playing time!!
Is Malik Beasley putting up 20ppg?
I highly doubt it.
All MIN did was match salaries...
Don't switch up, we saw your video calling that trade one of the worst of all-time. Stay on that side.
TWolves looking so damn good
I'm a jazz fan so I know how much hate Rudy gets and when he plays great they tend to ignore it. He took most of the blame for our playoff failures and honestly when looking back the rest of our team was to blame for defensive failures. Rudy has his issues but I can't blame him for all of it
I didn't think they'd be this good. Rudy Gobert leading the best defence in the league is not all that surprising though and has translated to the Wolves having a base of sorts to outscore opponents. It'll be interesting to see how Finch deals with playing two non-switchable bigs come playoff time.
You left out Naz Reid coming off of the bench. He has been a life saver coming off of the bench, and should be in the running for 6th man of the year. Center for 6th Man??? You heard me right.
Enough with this talk of the Wolves “giving up too much” for Gobert. We traded a bunch of guys who wouldn’t see the court in our current rotation and picks that will be in the 20-30 range. If the Jazz get 2-3 rotation guys from those picks that still doesn’t even come close to the value Rudy adds for us.
Game is results driven but too many people are emotion and narrative driven (including me lmao). People were calling this one of the worse trades every because they thought Rudy was "overrated." Nothing about numbers or basketball....
Sports media is so funny. You’d think they’d be more neutral but they really just switch it up whenever possible.
Going from D-Lo who felt he was underutilized and a third option in MN, to a real vet like Conley Jr. was the best move. Unselfish, a sharpshooter when he does need to step up if others aren't making shots, and keeps the team focused and better collectively. Like when Cassell or Billups was paired alongside KG back in the day
I still am an advocate for they didn't give up too much. They sent multiple role caliber players for an all defensive all star caliper player. And sure you can argue that Kessler has been good and has more years ahead of him but its still largely unproven, and adding Gobert made the team ready to compete now. Obviously the jazz weren't interested in players from MN they just traded them to balance the books, as proof they only have one player from that trade left on their roster. Adding in 4 first round picks seems like a lot for sure, although KAT, Gobert, Edwards, and McDaniels are now all secured long term in MN. With that core they wolves should be a playoff team each and every year, so those picks become late 1st rounders which are highly hit or miss depending on scouting you do I would argue your just as likely to find a promising talent, not to mention cheaper talent, in round 2 as you are in the late first round. If something goes wrong and things aren't working out, they trade one of their main pieces and recoup some picks back.
So what trade could MN have made for what player to have a similar impact, team fit, skill ect. as Goebert that didn't cost them as much as the Goebert trade? Keep in mind this is the bad luck, low success, small market Timberwolves we're talking about, a lot of players are not going to want to play there.
I agree the trade was very expensive but MN had what is for them a very, very rare opportunity, they had two home grown stars in their primes (they might be the worst at drafting in history, not joking). If they don't start getting some post season success these star are going to leave in free agency. So they had to do something. And the odds are those draft picks weren't going to hit anyway (again keep in mind they have limited trade options because players don't want to play there).
Very well said!
I was thinking murray from atl... kept picks but more importantly. Keeping Kessler.. but this works. Those picks will be in 20s anyway. All the players traded don't start anywhere. And kessler regressed year 2
They could have just kept Kessler. He might not be as good as Gobert but he definitely has a similar skillset and he is much younger.
How was it "expensive"??
MIN matched salaries with bums like Beasley, PatBev and some guy named Balmoro... Not like they gave up an "Evan Mobley" or "Chet"...
No mention of Naz Reid, in an over eight minute video about the Wolves? That is heresy.
Timberwolves is playing amazing basketball. I am an ardent fan of Anthony Edwards, and I am really excited. Hope they play as well in the post season too.
Gobert has a fatal flaw in todays game. This wont translate to playoff success. Small ball kills Gobert team everytime.
Trade can’t be judge properly for another 4 years
This! Jazz have Kessler and Keyonte George from the trade so far
@@cvombaur1835right but if the Wolves make the finals in the next 3-4 years then it was worth it. If Ant edwards leaves in the next 3-4 years the Wolves definitely lost
@@Shortballa11 I would agree. Their contract situation is not good after this season though.
@@cvombaur1835yea maybe they finally pay the luxury tax for a year and wait for the salary cap to go up
4 1st was too much for Rudy. Literally messed up the trade market for a bit. I love watching Ant play so I am glad it’s working out
It does sound like a lot but if you look at it it’s not bad. It’s not like 4 lottery picks. Any decent team with Gobert is going to be picking at the end of the first round so these are generally just going to be role players. You might luck into a good player but if you look at the players selected at the end of the 1st a lot of them are out of the league. And Gobert is one of the best players to ever play in the NBA. Any team with him is automatically top ten in defense, single handedly. He’s about to get his 4th defensive player of the year award. He’s elite. So it seems like a good trade.
that's the price you pay for being a small market team imo. i mean look at the jrue holiday trade and the dejounte trade and compare it to the trades the clippers and lakers made the past trade deadline and it shows that bigger market teams def have advantages over the smaller ones
The market got messed up when the Hawks traded 3 firsts for a 1-time all star the week prior. The Wolves had no choice but to give up 4 picks for a guy with 3 dpoys
As a fan of Minnesota sports in general I just want one of our big 4 pro teams to win a championship. If we have to give up 10 years of our future to win a championship now I’m good with it.
@@charlieash35THIS!!!!!
Murray is NEVER cited by these RUclipsrs as an "overpayment", only Gobert!!
Empty numbers on a tanking team vs THREE TIME DPOY?!?
Not even close!!
I know who I'm spending my money on!!
HUGE overpay ≠ it won't work
both were true in this situation, Minnesotta overpaid like hell but ultimately made it work on the court after a year or so
If Minnesota wins a championship w gobert it will be a great trade no matter what
People overrate picks. Wolves and Kings had top 10 picks for a decade and the two of them combined could barely draft a single star. That resulted in them never making the playoffs.
Litteraly nobody talks about how bad the Cleveland trade was and donovan is gonna leave lol. All this mn hate
Nahh you don’t get to say this now after absolutely roasting us for over a year
Maybe the background music is a bit too loud?
Weird to keep hammering on this clearly wrong idea that maximizing return value is the most important thing in evaluating a trade. Seems pretty clear from this example and just from thinking it through that if you already have sufficient value on hand, marginal value beyond that point (from your perspective) is much lower. You can “afford to buy expensive things,” as it were. If you’re in that situation and that’s your trading strategy, then a value-maximization critique isn’t meaningfully describing reality.
I think a big reason it’s working so well is that both Rudy and KAT have accepted that this is Ant’s team, which has been huge.
if they make a couple of years in deep playoff runs it becomes a high priced trade instead of the worst trade in basketball history. If Rudy's groin or what what obviously affecting him last season allows him the bounce and mobiliy we've seen so far into spring, deep playoff run is possible. He's heatlhy and has a year of settling into spacing schemes on offense and defense.
This trade is still the stupidest fucking trade of all time... why is that a question?
If they make the finals or win the chip it 100% isn't. Paul George trade is worse than this one. Trading late first round picks is worth a DPOY player who rebounds 15x a game
A word for Mike Conley wouldn't have been too much. A real point guard on a team helps.
People like to clown on rudy because he has obvious weaknesses, while his impact is hard to notice for the majority of fans
Wolves were thinking about the Future. Gobert was acquired to matchup against Jokic.
The only issue is their contract situation is not thinking about the future
Before the Gobert trade Denver, Cleveland, Milwaukee were too big for KAT. KAT needed a bigger, defensive player next to him so he could focus on offense. Ant went to another level and now everyone is seeing the results.
ANT still isn't playing great. He's a little inconsistent and his 3 ball is not falling but KAT embracing being the #2 scoring option and letting Gobert focus on defense has worked out for everyone. They really can use a true point guard with Conley being old and unproductive
I am a gobert fan for a while
This year is interesting:
He is really fitter than before running fast side to side
His Lateral move is quick
But moreover he kind of reinvent his defense : he is defending much higher than before , Covering more field and switching very often
I think the key is Ant really buying in the defensive mindset in order to be a contender (what Mitchel never did and continue not to do)
I get this sinking suspicion you don't like the value of the trade. Maybe it was the 10,000 times you said it through the course of this video, but it might've come from somewhere else.
The draft is and always will be a crapshoot. I'd 100% prefer having Rudy who fills a massive need for the team over a couple of unproven guys who could be major busts or unproductive for a length of time and waste the prime of AE and the new and improved KAT.
That’s wild if you didn’t think McDaniels was the truth off the rip 😂 😂 that’s literally saying you never saw a wolves game till this year
It’s the depth Naz Reid, Kyle Anderson, Shake Milton, NAW, Troy Brown
I’m kinda with the squad if you were hating a year ago seems pretty bandwagon to hop on the this trade is good now….
Kudos for giving props to Minnesota for the trade when you were so against it when it happened.
So if the Wolves finish 1st in the west this year is Ant an MVP candidate? He’s gotta be at least top 3 right???
If they win a chip I’ll change my mind but if not it’s still gonna be one of the worst trades in my opinion, way too much for a single player that’s a liability on offense, but hey if they figure it out then good on them
Facts getting gobert isn't the answer... Edwards development was the deal breaker here...
@@cdeleon3494Wrong! They are the best defensive team in the NBA! This will make them be able to win at a very high level.
@@AAONMS1 if edwards didn't improve this year, gobert impact wont be much of a difference... And to add the other players want to play D...
@@cdeleon3494 Yes thats true
Thank you for admitting you were wrong with the knee-jerk reaction last year.
Yep!
Anthony Edwards is a very very good basketball player. I feel as though at time is that look a little bit better than they actually are. Meaning that his efficiency isn’t the best.
Respect for your willingness to tilt your sentiment
i don't think giving up a bunch of mid 1st round picks, i.e. role players, was a stretch. I loved that trade even last year. Go wolves!
He's misunderstanding Gobert's defense. He can guard small line-ups incredibly well. Utah's guards could not stay in front of their man. If Gobert wasn't staying in the middle, it was an open lane every time.
I agree if their successful in the playoffs A+ but from a value standpoint I liked the Conley but long term walker Kessler is a better fit for Anthony Edwards because Robert is already starting to decline and if walker Kessler healthy this year plays at least 35 mins a game he could average 3 blocks per game and with a lot of draft picks to come to the future this might be the next okc
Doesnt even start
If they get to the finals then they absolutely did not trade too much. They will have done something no other wolves team has ever done.
So nba gm knew what he was going for and basketball youtube experts didnt !!!?? schocking that
ohh nooo we won’t have the 23rd pick oh noooo why do we just win games instead this suuuucks
The thing I don't think we won't truely know the value of the trade until the early 2030s.
**prior to watching the video** I don’t want to hear it from you, especially when you’ve roasted this team CONSTANTLY.
You roasted this team, you roasted Gobert…
July 1 2022: The Rudy Gobert trade is awful
Dec 8 2022: The Rudy Gobert trade as historically bad
There’s visible receipts…
**after calming down and watching the video**
Yeah. You’re right Tucker
As a Wolves fan I will always understand that they overpaid, but they needed to in order to get someone of Gobert's caliber. Small market teams do not attract top FA talent and in order to retain your generational talent (Ant) you need to surround him with these pieces to make a run for a championship and not have him run off himself.
Exhibit A - Kevin Garnett. It is for this reason they needed to overpay and I was always totally fine with this. You need to take risks like this to take that next step.
Best trade in a long time!
What changed in Minnesota? Nothing, young players are improving including a future superstar (no i dont think Ant is ALREADY a superstar, but hes right there) and they had a drastic personnel change that took a season to figure out. They were never bad, i dont understand this media narrative
No this trade was still bad lol. Gave up so many picks and are in salary cap hell due to Gobert's massive contract. This is going to impede their ability to keep up a decent bench down the line while praying that Gobert doesn't regress cause hes like 31. Jazz are going to keep feasting and don't have to worry about the salary cap issues, so they can sign key players without worrying about hitting the cap and trade those picks to chase a star if they want to contend quicker. People think wayyyyy too short term and it shows. Well, at least they aren't the Pistons, Spurs, or Wizards so 😅.
No one is signing to the Jazz😂
Hehehe. Foolish that you assumed it was a superstar that the Jazz are going to target. That being said, if the Jazz don't try to monopolize the role player free agency market this year, then consider their management incompetent. You might see some insane and dumb contracts and trades happening this offseason for some starters if the Jazz pull it off, but don't tell me I didn't warn you.
To me it wasn’t getting Gobert, it’s mortgaging the future for him. They gave up a lot of team chemistry for a guy that wasn’t known for great chemistry. I thought they’d be great last year, and I’m not surprised by this year, but as a Thunder fan, when Russ and KD were ready to really contend, and needed one more piece, they didn’t have the capital to get it. Draft picks are the currency of the NBA, and if in 2 years they’re on the cusp, they may need to get one more guy, and they’ll have no draft picks to do it… well, until they trade KAT.
As a Timberwolves fan, I agree we gave up too much, but can anyone point out which was the best asset we gave up? Ant is signed all the way through 2029, so the draft picks shouldn't be too high either.
The way he describes how gobert and kat compliments each other is like how on 2k when you run double bigs and the 2s in 2k17 (stretch and glass cleaners)because the fact that if at shoots gobert will always have a rebound and they also will have another creator out there
Hopefully this year puts to bed the "Gobert can't guard small guys" narrative, to be replaced by "Gobert can't guard 5 small guys by himself".
If perimeter players like Jaden & Ant rotate in the postseason, the easy shots of the Clippers series won't exist.
On paper that trade isn’t bad at all, comparing it to a shai and clippers trade for exp.
The role players traded aren’t preforming (maybe Malik) and pick wise walker is a the only bummer.
1:00 I hated the Gobert trade. But if it results in a title, it's worth it.