I live off of cottman ave, I was driving on the blvd when it happened. That night was really weird. It was bitterly cold still, and overcast fog. It almost felt surreal because you could hear it as it flew over head on the blvd. it started to almost hum before pitching down and banking over head in front of me
Considering the strange witness mark at the point of impact that's seen on the NTSB drone footage I'm thinking this aircraft had a major catastrophic failure at the wing root. Look at the crash site, carefully look at what's not there marked on the ground.
Lear Jets have had a spotty safety record for the past few decades, with several crashes around the world. While it looked modern, that particular aircraft was almost 43 years old. My immediate thought is a catastrophic failure of some kind.
Bullshiptt Lear Jets are very dependable hot rod work trucks. Just like any other mechanical product, if you use it, eventually it's going to break down.
That flight path elevation tells me it didn't stall. Just my opinion. I believe they come in inverted. Just look at the video of the crash and how all of a sudden it went in more straight down like he pulled up but being inverted...well you know.
Any thoughts on why the landing lights were still on? Wouldn't that mean the gear was still down? Wouldn't they retract the gear on takeoff? If the gear didn't retract that may have caused a few moments of distraction and then spatial disorientation? They also never started their turn to 290°, only a few small wobbles left and right, only real turn was after they started descending rapidly. Something happened in that cockpit just after they read back the call to change to the departure frequency. With the level of destruction of the plane we may never know.
They were obviously fighting for control of the airplane. Whatever it was, they were too busy trying to solve the problem to communicate. It must have been a catastrophic failure of something that was causing control problems...
I think the landing lights being on was the least of their worries...lights are used on takeoff..landing gear and lights are operated separately..the landing gear down likely means that the problem may have started just before they were going to raise them..I doubt that the gear was the problem. It would be very unlikely that both pilots would have spatial disorientation at the same time. They were supposed to turn right after takeoff, they never did...likely because they were faced with a serious problem...The fact that they did not turn right as instructed by ATC would indicate some sort of control problem, possibly the elevator, or maybe the ailerons, or it could have been a total loss of hydraulic fluid / pressure, which would affect the flight controls in the cockpit...with the exception of a total engine failure, this is one of many things that could have gone wrong..
What an absurd question.. those lights stay on until WELL after takeoff and come on WELL before landing. It would have been unusual had they NOT had the lights on at that low elevation.
From a former CRJ pilot - Spatial disorientation? They were in the soup/IMC - rather than turn right on course to 290 after take off from RW 24, they started a left turn. RIP.
100% agree with Spatial D...never even climbed out of IMC, just a gradual roll into the ground. All the footage so far shows a plane coming out of the cloud layer banked over with power and no flames. It was not indicative of a stall from icing condition.
That was my thought exactly. The conditions were fairly good, except for the thick layer of fog. They impacted at a very high velocity, as can be heard by the engines in a few of the videos. The engines sounded like they were at high throttle when the plane dove toward terrain, as is also evidenced by the extreme impact of the plane upon striking the ground. They were using max power to get off the ground and climb to their assigned altitude when they suddenly began the rapid descent. They may not have been monitoring their instruments as they ascended and lost all situational awareness. Their difficulty in seeing the ground could have easily led to spatial disorientation, so when the plane turned toward their assigned heading, it could have resulted in a runaway turn, from which they lost control and were unable to correct in time. This could have resulted in an inversion, which they would have had no time to correct. Icing could have played a part, but the temperatures at such a low level would make that very unlikely.
I think after a stall there was spatial disorientation, because they were pulling out the wrong way, but I think the cause will be ice, wrong flap settings or maybe not maintaining pitch while setting the computers. This looks like an unexpected stall....
@@cup_and_cone The actual video of the plane, it's dropping almost straight down, with what looks like the pilot trying to figure out which way to pull, That's a classic low altitude stall, it's a race to get air across the wings so the plane can maneuver, he was pulling the wrong way but it was too late anyway. Speed is only a good indicator of a stall if you can confirm lift, ice or wrong flap settings can massively change the equation. You can simply retract the flaps too soon and stall a plane
After they cleared him for takeoff and the Jet said have a good day why did they try to contact him again so quickly after they just contacted him and cleared him? I'm not talking about the woman who was trying to contact them because they had crashed by then.
A head-up somatogravic illusion. Typical with thrust on takeoff in IMC. Pilot did not transition to instruments effectively or did not trust instruments. Pushed nose over with no power reduction, which explains the 11000 FPM VS.
@@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases Thank you! I was wondering if premature flap retraction might have been a factor -- and I'm not a Lear pilot so don't know the climb schedule -- but doesn't look like it.
What are your thoughts on the survivability of the black boxes? She was really moving when she hit the ground and that ground was concrete. The NTSB is going to have a hard time determining the cause of this crash without them.
There won't be "black boxes" on this class of aircraft. Almost never required by regulation. Some of the largest corporate aircraft might have a data recorder but CVR's are unlikely.
@ even tho it was not required to have them, the NTSB did confirm it was equipped with (at least) a cockpit voice recorder. The NTSB think the recorders might be in pieces, we need to wait for further updates
2/2 18.53 ET "NTSB investigators recovered the black box or cockpit voice recorder (CVR) from the Learjet 55 that crashed in Northeast Philadelphia on Friday, Jan. 31, 2025. The CVR was located at the site of the initial impact -- near Cottman Avenue and Rupert Street -- at a depth of eight feet. The NTSB also recovered the aircraft's enhanced ground proximity warning system (EGPWS) which could possibly contain flight data. The CVR and EGPWS will be sent to the NTSB Vehicle Recorders Laboratory in Washington, DC, for an evaluation." - NBC Philadelphia
Were they airborne at the point they confirmed frequency 123.8? That was the last thing they said, if so at what point of the flight was this? could some form of large electrical failure have disabled their communications and in turn the cockpit instrumentation? Spatial awareness would rapidly ensue at that point even with standby instruments if the cockpit was plunged into darkness??
I think they were already climbing out of the runway when they transmitted their last message. Early IMC can result in a similar thing, so we have to wait for more info before drawing conclusions.
There was another Lear Jet 55 model that suffered total electircal failure including the backup battery(ies). Fortunately they wsere in VFR conditions and landed safely. This MedEvac Lear Jet could have suffered the same failure. VFR in IMC is not possible (reported to have a 400ft overcast ceiling). The path to the crash site suggests to me that's what might have happened. The aircraft data showed that it did not stall as it's ground speed was well above the 150kts stall speed (one pilot mentioned that speed).
It was not a stall. The plane never got close to 120 knots. Just a hunch... but what if that plane had something like a drone crashing thru it's windscreen @ around 450 km/h, leaving both the pilots incapacitated?. It will explain why no Mayday call or any communication was received. Also a lack of any corrective actions in the flight pattern. Just a gradual turn to the left and a dive, possibly induced by a dead of unconscious pilot leaning forward on the control column pushing it down.
Given the crashes of Lears in Mexico. Could be just too hot of a plane for certain types to fly. A Lear is not very distant in design from an F-104. Just able to carry a few pax. But still a hot rod requiring high airspeeds to keep stable. Plus, pay close attention to the plane's flight path. A max performance climb followed by a max performance dive. Preceeded by non responsive crew on taxi-way, is consistent with someone hi- jacking the plane, not allowing crew to respond. Plane takes off, and a minute later crew, or hijacker then shoves the yoke in and Kablammo. Suicide mission, or air crew incapacitated, and secret terrorist using plane as guided missle. What every passenger thinks is "well the pilots don't want to die also" Without ever considering, well maybe they do want to die, for personal or political reasons. Any investigation requires always also considering the darkest of motivations. One thing for certain.... Lot's of aircrashes, are really just very stupid, or very sick puppies on the controls.
There are many speculations bouncing around the interwebs about the cause, but I'm actually a bit surprised I haven't seen any nutjobs blame a collision with one of the infamous New Jersey drones that might have strayed over to Philly.
Can someone explain spatial disorientation when you should be relying on instruments not your senses. These are not newbies they are experienced pilots.
Spatial disorientation is still a theory, nothing is confirmed. It can and WILL get you if you are not ready, even in a capable airplane with capable crew.
SD is insidious in that you have no idea you are experiencing it. You think everything is under control and that you are reacting normally. Then you break out of the overcast pointed straight at the ground.
If you've ever fumbled around in the dark looking for the glass of water on the nightstand only to realize you're reaching in the complete opposite direction, you'll understand.
It's where one's senses, in an environment with three dimensional movement, send sensory data to the brain that is anomalous and conflicts with the brain's experience and expectation of body movement and sensory input while moving on the ground in a one g environment. The brain cannot resolve the conflict. In a cockpit with no visible horizon the eye reports no movement as it has for millennia as if sitting on a rock staring at the unmoving cave wall. The liquid in the inner ear however is reporting movement and acceleration in a number of potential directions. The nerves in our skin and body are reporting pressure changes and appendage weight feeling that suggest movement that doesn't correspond to the inner ear reports and damn sure not with the lack of any movement reported by the eye. The brain compiles the data as best it can, compares it with past experience and reports something close to what movement would be expected with these inputs while firmly on the earth in a one g environment. This flawed sensory report creates the overwhelming feeling of movement, usually wrong, that we instinctually act to counter. When that instinct doesn't jibe with the physical reality we are experiencing spacial disorientation. Intellectually we can train ourselves to trust the flight instrument data to be oriented correctly with the earth and rationally overcome our feeling of divergent movement to act correctly. However, the internal feeling and all the emergent emotions created are compelling and if given even a fleeting opportunity will overwhelm our ability to reason and kill us. Spatial disorientation then = insanity.
That operator has a very checkered recent history. It would not surprise me the least bit if the FAA suspends them from flying in the CONUS following this accident until a full review of their training, maintenance and entire operation is conducted.
The course flown was known and the distance investigators needed to cover to check for pieces of the plane falling off was just a couple miles so they would have been able to find anything if it had fallen off. It is possible that near the end of the descent that some parts might have come off due to overspeed (flaps, landing gear), but that would not explain why it was in a descent in the first place.
@@Johnfisher12345 Where did he say that..... read it again and see if you can find something else wrong with it... how many of those hateful comments do you have to post a day to feel better about your life
I wonder if there was anything wrong with the pilot of this plane. Besides his thick accent he doesn't seem to be speaking quite right even on the ground.
That's exactly what I thought too. On 1:08 listen how he says we are to taxi... Sounds to me he is drunk or intoxicated? Maybe was surprised with a sudden flight back out of schedule time?
@tuck6464 That is NOT how spatial disorientation works. Close all the blinds or shades and turn off all the lights in your house, then close your eyes, put in some ear plugs, and try to walk quickly through your house without bumping into anything. Good luck! Do that and maybe you’ll appreciate what spatial disorientation is.
@ They were allegedly in the air for about 40 seconds. Clearly, they had some problems. I assure you they knew where they were, and where they were going. As sad as that may be, it's the truth.
FULL ATC AUDIO: Medevac Learjet 55 Crash in Philadelphia. Real ATC. ruclips.net/video/ngk47VXodg8/видео.html Duration 05.02 The only communication we hear on the Real ATC recording from the Learjet 55 is from 01:10 to 01:17. It is not clear out of Capt. Alan Alejandro Montoya Perales and co-pilot Josue de Jesus Juarez who is speaking. At 01:27 a female ATC notices the rapid descent and contacts the plane > No response. 01:37 Ditto. At 01:44 a male ATC notices the continued rapid descent and contacts the plane > No response. At 01:53 the female ATC contacts the plane > No response. 02:00 The plane impacts the ground > Fireball. Only 43 seconds after the normal and routine communication from the cockpit. Thus whatever went wrong gave the pilot/s no time to contact ATC. They were totally overwhelmed by events. 02:08 > Further attempts by ATC to contact the plane before they realise what has just happened. Take Note: Matthew "Whiz" Buckley yesterday made a comment about this incident: "Looking at the videos, it's on fire, there are flames leaving the aircraft..." Other Aviation "experts" have repeated this claim. Fact: The Med Jets Flight 056, Learjet 55 was not on fire on at any point in its ascent/flight or catastrophic descent. - 1/12/2025 04.59 ET djtqdevolution on X: "I think it appears to be external aircraft lighting, not flames." 👍 - 1/2/2025 08.11 ET Garrison Page on X: "I don't see flames. What I see is the side of the fuselage lit up by the landing lights. Those stay on until the aircraft reaches 10,000 feet. Which it never did, unfortunately." 08.25 ET 'Here is an (old) video of a Learjet 55 night take off. Notice how lit up the side of the fuselage is from the landing lights. I believe this is why so many are saying it was on fire. Or that it was a missile. They are mistaking all that lit surface for flames." 👍 QED "Truth will last forever. But lies last only a moment." - Proverbs 12:19 Prayers for the pilot, and passengers on the Learjet 55 and to those on the Black Hawk and Bombardier from the Washington D.C. incident. Up in heaven now, I'm sure they want the truth to come out about the cause of this disaster. Adam Neira Founder of World Peace 2050 Founded in April 2000 Paris - Jerusalem - Melbourne P.S. I have been following various Aircraft Crashes and Incidents very closely since April 2021. I have a very large file with media reports, research and evidence about more than 100 incidents around the world, with many in the USA.
@@RealWoutLies your only chance might be to give it as much power as possible to increase speed and lift, or roll it inverted if it was stuck nose down, neither of those have a good chance of actually getting it back on the ground but you could stay in the air longer, maybe
This crash is more problematic than the one in DC. The is noting left of the plane to examine. and the circumstances were even more strange than in DC. There is little explanation here.
Something no one is talking about. This was a medevac plane. How about an explosion onboard from oxygen? Something that was small enough to not destroy the plane initially, but was powerful enough to stun the pilots?
Yah oxygen doesn’t “explode” in the way movies sometimes make it out - it’s not hydrogen, it doesn’t “detonate” when in contact with a spark. Rather it accelerates an already existing fire… The Apollo 1 astronauts burned. They didn’t “explode”
@@zachtews You can blame Steven Spielberg for that nonsense. Remember how Roy Scheider killed the shark in Jaws? He stuck a SCUBA tank in its mouth and shot it with a .30-06, and it blew up. Not only will a .30-06 round not penetrate a SCUBA tank, but if it did, it would just make a hole that would cause it to act like a rocket, not explode. And then there's the minor detail that SCUBA tanks are filled with air using a compressor, not oxygen. But other than that...
People are harsh with their responses. As @darrens.4322 stated *Fuel*. The Branson Missouri stop was likely a fuel stop. I never flew the Lear 55. The Westwind II and Astra that I did fly, those aircraft are similarly sized business jets, many times did not have the range to fly nonstop coast to coast westbound due to the prevailing headwind. With six occupants and a load of fuel they were likely close to maximum allowable takeoff weight when they departed Northeast Philadelphia. There could be other operational reasons as well for the Missouri stop. I have no inside information.
It is highly likely the plane had some catastrophic breakup in flight. Philadelphia City Manager announced airplane debris was found a good distance away from the crash site indicating an in-flight breakup
NTSB believes it came down at one piece, the wide debris field could be a result of the high speed impact. Look at that initial impact point in the sidewalk.
It's not likely at all, imo. It does look like something departs the plane just before impact, but that is almost certainly from the overstress and not a cause..
@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases QUOTE: Philadelphia Managing Director Adam K. Thiel said debris may have fallen from the jet before it hit the ground and that the area of impact stretched four to six blocks. “We also have debris in remote area where something happened with the aircraft,” Thiel said at a Saturday morning news conference. “That’s something we’ll need to leave to the NTSB to talk about.”
@bills6093 QUOTE: Philadelphia Managing Director Adam K. Thiel said debris may have fallen from the jet before it hit the ground and that the area of impact stretched four to six blocks. “We also have debris in remote area where something happened with the aircraft,” Thiel said at a Saturday morning news conference. “That’s something we’ll need to leave to the NTSB to talk about.”
This thing was an absolute MISSILE into the earth. Not only is the trajectory (i.e. almost completely vertical) strange but the SPEED the entire time. Is it possible there was some sort of hardware malfunction so serious not only could they NOT level the plane AT ALL, they ALSO couldn't slow it down. Otherwise, it kind of look like another suicidal pilot who decided to end his life and take a few innocent people with him.
Trajectory was not even close to “completely vertical”. But I’m sure you’ll ignore all the evidence that shows the real flight path, because it doesn’t fit your BS narrative.
The NTSB mentioned (in their briefing posted after this) that the aircraft was on a right turn, then left turn, then descended out of control as reported here. No mention of a stall.
I live off of cottman ave, I was driving on the blvd when it happened. That night was really weird. It was bitterly cold still, and overcast fog. It almost felt surreal because you could hear it as it flew over head on the blvd. it started to almost hum before pitching down and banking over head in front of me
Considering the strange witness mark at the point of impact that's seen on the NTSB drone footage I'm thinking this aircraft had a major catastrophic failure at the wing root. Look at the crash site, carefully look at what's not there marked on the ground.
Lear Jets have had a spotty safety record for the past few decades, with several crashes around the world. While it looked modern, that particular aircraft was almost 43 years old. My immediate thought is a catastrophic failure of some kind.
Bullshiptt Lear Jets are very dependable hot rod work trucks. Just like any other mechanical product, if you use it, eventually it's going to break down.
Their record is excellent, nearly all incidents a pilot error in all models of Learjet
Glad I could help with the ATC audio transcript
one of the pilots went thru someones kitchen window............................................................ spread the news
Could be poor maintenance, we all remember the Air Alaska flight
That flight path elevation tells me it didn't stall. Just my opinion. I believe they come in inverted. Just look at the video of the crash and how all of a sudden it went in more straight down like he pulled up but being inverted...well you know.
Any thoughts on why the landing lights were still on? Wouldn't that mean the gear was still down? Wouldn't they retract the gear on takeoff? If the gear didn't retract that may have caused a few moments of distraction and then spatial disorientation? They also never started their turn to 290°, only a few small wobbles left and right, only real turn was after they started descending rapidly. Something happened in that cockpit just after they read back the call to change to the departure frequency. With the level of destruction of the plane we may never know.
Landing lights are required at and below 10,000 feet, taking off and landing.
They were obviously fighting for control of the airplane. Whatever it was, they were too busy trying to solve the problem to communicate. It must have been a catastrophic failure of something that was causing control problems...
I think the landing lights being on was the least of their worries...lights are used on takeoff..landing gear and lights are operated separately..the landing gear down likely means that the problem may have started just before they were going to raise them..I doubt that the gear was the problem. It would be very unlikely that both pilots would have spatial disorientation at the same time. They were supposed to turn right after takeoff, they never did...likely because they were faced with a serious problem...The fact that they did not turn right as instructed by ATC would indicate some sort of control problem, possibly the elevator, or maybe the ailerons, or it could have been a total loss of hydraulic fluid / pressure, which would affect the flight controls in the cockpit...with the exception of a total engine failure, this is one of many things that could have gone wrong..
What an absurd question.. those lights stay on until WELL after takeoff and come on WELL before landing. It would have been unusual had they NOT had the lights on at that low elevation.
@@Johnfisher12345 The main landing lights are on the landing gear, so they leave the gear down for that long after takeoff? That was my question.
The engines were going full blast when it supposedly hit the sidewalk...why?
Good question. Also, they hit/impacted a shopping mall driveway/ entrance apron, 7 to 10 " thick concrete apron.
From a former CRJ pilot -
Spatial disorientation?
They were in the soup/IMC
- rather than turn right on course to 290 after take off from RW 24, they started a left turn.
RIP.
100% agree with Spatial D...never even climbed out of IMC, just a gradual roll into the ground. All the footage so far shows a plane coming out of the cloud layer banked over with power and no flames. It was not indicative of a stall from icing condition.
That was my thought exactly. The conditions were fairly good, except for the thick layer of fog. They impacted at a very high velocity, as can be heard by the engines in a few of the videos. The engines sounded like they were at high throttle when the plane dove toward terrain, as is also evidenced by the extreme impact of the plane upon striking the ground. They were using max power to get off the ground and climb to their assigned altitude when they suddenly began the rapid descent.
They may not have been monitoring their instruments as they ascended and lost all situational awareness. Their difficulty in seeing the ground could have easily led to spatial disorientation, so when the plane turned toward their assigned heading, it could have resulted in a runaway turn, from which they lost control and were unable to correct in time. This could have resulted in an inversion, which they would have had no time to correct. Icing could have played a part, but the temperatures at such a low level would make that very unlikely.
I think after a stall there was spatial disorientation, because they were pulling out the wrong way, but I think the cause will be ice, wrong flap settings or maybe not maintaining pitch while setting the computers. This looks like an unexpected stall....
@@Bretware904 Where in the flight profile do you see a stall?
@@cup_and_cone The actual video of the plane, it's dropping almost straight down, with what looks like the pilot trying to figure out which way to pull, That's a classic low altitude stall, it's a race to get air across the wings so the plane can maneuver, he was pulling the wrong way but it was too late anyway. Speed is only a good indicator of a stall if you can confirm lift, ice or wrong flap settings can massively change the equation. You can simply retract the flaps too soon and stall a plane
The mall store sign looks like it has damage from the trajectory of the vessel
After they cleared him for takeoff and the Jet said have a good day why did they try to contact him again so quickly after they just contacted him and cleared him? I'm not talking about the woman who was trying to contact them because they had crashed by then.
Because he didnt make his right turn after takeoff. He continued on runway heading instead.
A head-up somatogravic illusion. Typical with thrust on takeoff in IMC. Pilot did not transition to instruments effectively or did not trust instruments. Pushed nose over with no power reduction, which explains the 11000 FPM VS.
I’m glad to see someone gets it. This is almost certainly spot on correct. Excellent description.
thank you
Appears to be some type of flight control malfunction(pitch trim runaway-nose down or yaw damper(rudder hard over) malfunction.
Wish you'd shown the ADS-B groundspeed as well as the altitude...
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@@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases Thank you! I was wondering if premature flap retraction might have been a factor -- and I'm not a Lear pilot so don't know the climb schedule -- but doesn't look like it.
What are your thoughts on the survivability of the black boxes? She was really moving when she hit the ground and that ground was concrete. The NTSB is going to have a hard time determining the cause of this crash without them.
There won't be "black boxes" on this class of aircraft. Almost never required by regulation. Some of the largest corporate aircraft might have a data recorder but CVR's are unlikely.
@ even tho it was not required to have them, the NTSB did confirm it was equipped with (at least) a cockpit voice recorder. The NTSB think the recorders might be in pieces, we need to wait for further updates
2/2 18.53 ET "NTSB investigators recovered the black box or cockpit voice recorder (CVR) from the Learjet 55 that crashed in Northeast Philadelphia on Friday, Jan. 31, 2025. The CVR was located at the site of the initial impact -- near Cottman Avenue and Rupert Street -- at a depth of eight feet. The NTSB also recovered the aircraft's enhanced ground proximity warning system (EGPWS) which could possibly contain flight data. The CVR and EGPWS will be sent to the NTSB Vehicle Recorders Laboratory in Washington, DC, for an evaluation." - NBC Philadelphia
Were they airborne at the point they confirmed frequency 123.8? That was the last thing they said, if so at what point of the flight was this? could some form of large electrical failure have disabled their communications and in turn the cockpit instrumentation? Spatial awareness would rapidly ensue at that point even with standby instruments if the cockpit was plunged into darkness??
I think they were already climbing out of the runway when they transmitted their last message. Early IMC can result in a similar thing, so we have to wait for more info before drawing conclusions.
There was another Lear Jet 55 model that suffered total electircal failure including the backup battery(ies). Fortunately they wsere in VFR conditions and landed safely. This MedEvac Lear Jet could have suffered the same failure. VFR in IMC is not possible (reported to have a 400ft overcast ceiling). The path to the crash site suggests to me that's what might have happened. The aircraft data showed that it did not stall as it's ground speed was well above the 150kts stall speed (one pilot mentioned that speed).
It was not a stall. The plane never got close to 120 knots.
Just a hunch... but what if that plane had something like a drone crashing thru it's windscreen @ around 450 km/h, leaving both the pilots incapacitated?. It will explain why no Mayday call or any communication was received. Also a lack of any corrective actions in the flight pattern. Just a gradual turn to the left and a dive, possibly induced by a dead of unconscious pilot leaning forward on the control column pushing it down.
Given the crashes of Lears in Mexico. Could be just too hot of a plane for certain types to fly. A Lear is not very distant in design from an F-104. Just able to carry a few pax. But still a hot rod requiring high airspeeds to keep stable. Plus, pay close attention to the plane's flight path. A max performance climb followed by a max performance dive. Preceeded by non responsive crew on taxi-way, is consistent with someone hi- jacking the plane, not allowing crew to respond. Plane takes off, and a minute later crew, or hijacker then shoves the yoke in and Kablammo. Suicide mission, or air crew incapacitated, and secret terrorist using plane as guided missle. What every passenger thinks is "well the pilots don't want to die also" Without ever considering, well maybe they do want to die, for personal or political reasons. Any investigation requires always also considering the darkest of motivations. One thing for certain.... Lot's of aircrashes, are really just very stupid, or very sick puppies on the controls.
There are many speculations bouncing around the interwebs about the cause, but I'm actually a bit surprised I haven't seen any nutjobs blame a collision with one of the infamous New Jersey drones that might have strayed over to Philly.
I have but don't recall what videos they were
Nutjob democrats.
The location makes me think of a drone collision for some reason. Very odd accident.
Interesting 🤔
Can someone explain spatial disorientation when you should be relying on instruments not your senses. These are not newbies they are experienced pilots.
Spatial disorientation is still a theory, nothing is confirmed. It can and WILL get you if you are not ready, even in a capable airplane with capable crew.
@@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases Thanks.
SD is insidious in that you have no idea you are experiencing it. You think everything is under control and that you are reacting normally. Then you break out of the overcast pointed straight at the ground.
If you've ever fumbled around in the dark looking for the glass of water on the nightstand only to realize you're reaching in the complete opposite direction, you'll understand.
It's where one's senses, in an environment with three dimensional movement, send sensory data to the brain that is anomalous and conflicts with the brain's experience and expectation of body movement and sensory input while moving on the ground in a one g environment.
The brain cannot resolve the conflict. In a cockpit with no visible horizon the eye reports no movement as it has for millennia as if sitting on a rock staring at the unmoving cave wall. The liquid in the inner ear however is reporting movement and acceleration in a number of potential directions. The nerves in our skin and body are reporting pressure changes and appendage weight feeling that suggest movement that doesn't correspond to the inner ear reports and damn sure not with the lack of any movement reported by the eye.
The brain compiles the data as best it can, compares it with past experience and reports something close to what movement would be expected with these inputs while firmly on the earth in a one g environment.
This flawed sensory report creates the overwhelming feeling of movement, usually wrong, that we instinctually act to counter. When that instinct doesn't jibe with the physical reality we are experiencing spacial disorientation.
Intellectually we can train ourselves to trust the flight instrument data to be oriented correctly with the earth and rationally overcome our feeling of divergent movement to act correctly. However, the internal feeling and all the emergent emotions created are compelling and if given even a fleeting opportunity will overwhelm our ability to reason and kill us.
Spatial disorientation then = insanity.
good info, thx👍
I believe this is a case of spatial disorientation
as soon as i saw the ringbell cam, i immediately thought trim or elevator runaway. terrifying.
I thought mlrs
Gustlock
Why could we not see all the medivac comm.?
thats all the comms they made
@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases So all those instructions from the tower came unanswered? Seems like that way to me.
That operator has a very checkered recent history. It would not surprise me the least bit if the FAA suspends them from flying in the CONUS following this accident until a full review of their training, maintenance and entire operation is conducted.
Sounds like they don't employ the best pilots or maintain their aircraft properly
I have heard that it may have lost parts before the crash.
NTSB briefing just now said there is no evidence of that, the wreckage was spread over a large area likely because of impact forces
@ haven’t seen the last briefing. I’m going out on the limb and say icing.
@@odinsson204yea I think it is icing and maybe combined with spatial disorientation but the lights are on right?
The course flown was known and the distance investigators needed to cover to check for pieces of the plane falling off was just a couple miles so they would have been able to find anything if it had fallen off. It is possible that near the end of the descent that some parts might have come off due to overspeed (flaps, landing gear), but that would not explain why it was in a descent in the first place.
@@odinsson204 That was my first thought as well, but the temp was too high and the flight too short!
I wonder why some of Medivac’s callbacks didn’t record… while they were Taxiing…
Some callbacks on the ATC for the mid air were missing on some youtube videos, but it was actually edited out
@@Bretware904 Ah, okay thanks.
Are they speculating that that's how the president is going to
Soon happen didn't say it just saying
seems like elevator failure, just my opinion 🤔
Hit a train?? What??
Terrain I believe he said
The pictures I've seen show the valves broken off the oxygen cylinders so they were not intact.
I noticed that too
What, you thought they would survive impact with the ground somehow??
@@Johnfisher12345 Where did he say that..... read it again and see if you can find something else wrong with it... how many of those hateful comments do you have to post a day to feel better about your life
@@Johnfisher12345 I commented about the part of the video that said it appears that they were intact.
Did someone refuse to apply de-icing solution to the a/c?
Wasn't necessary
With temps in the 40s? Come on.
I wonder if there was anything wrong with the pilot of this plane. Besides his thick accent he doesn't seem to be speaking quite right even on the ground.
That's exactly what I thought too. On 1:08 listen how he says we are to taxi... Sounds to me he is drunk or intoxicated? Maybe was surprised with a sudden flight back out of schedule time?
Video footage seems to contradict the graphic
No it doesn’t, it perfectly matches it
Definitely looks like pilot disorientation at this point, time will tell.
I don't think they were in the air long enough to become disoriented.
@tuck6464 That is NOT how spatial disorientation works.
Close all the blinds or shades and turn off all the lights in your house, then close your eyes, put in some ear plugs, and try to walk quickly through your house without bumping into anything. Good luck! Do that and maybe you’ll appreciate what spatial disorientation is.
@ They were allegedly in the air for about 40 seconds. Clearly, they had some problems. I assure you they knew where they were, and where they were going. As sad as that may be, it's the truth.
FULL ATC AUDIO: Medevac Learjet 55 Crash in Philadelphia. Real ATC. ruclips.net/video/ngk47VXodg8/видео.html Duration 05.02
The only communication we hear on the Real ATC recording from the Learjet 55 is from 01:10 to 01:17. It is not clear out of Capt. Alan Alejandro Montoya Perales and co-pilot Josue de Jesus Juarez who is speaking.
At 01:27 a female ATC notices the rapid descent and contacts the plane > No response. 01:37 Ditto.
At 01:44 a male ATC notices the continued rapid descent and contacts the plane > No response.
At 01:53 the female ATC contacts the plane > No response.
02:00 The plane impacts the ground > Fireball. Only 43 seconds after the normal and routine communication from the cockpit. Thus whatever went wrong gave the pilot/s no time to contact ATC. They were totally overwhelmed by events.
02:08 > Further attempts by ATC to contact the plane before they realise what has just happened.
Take Note: Matthew "Whiz" Buckley yesterday made a comment about this incident: "Looking at the videos, it's on fire, there are flames leaving the aircraft..." Other Aviation "experts" have repeated this claim.
Fact: The Med Jets Flight 056, Learjet 55 was not on fire on at any point in its ascent/flight or catastrophic descent.
- 1/12/2025 04.59 ET djtqdevolution on X: "I think it appears to be external aircraft lighting, not flames." 👍
- 1/2/2025 08.11 ET Garrison Page on X: "I don't see flames. What I see is the side of the fuselage lit up by the landing lights. Those stay on until the aircraft reaches 10,000 feet. Which it never did, unfortunately." 08.25 ET 'Here is an (old) video of a Learjet 55 night take off. Notice how lit up the side of the fuselage is from the landing lights. I believe this is why so many are saying it was on fire. Or that it was a missile. They are mistaking all that lit surface for flames." 👍 QED
"Truth will last forever. But lies last only a moment." - Proverbs 12:19
Prayers for the pilot, and passengers on the Learjet 55 and to those on the Black Hawk and Bombardier from the Washington D.C. incident. Up in heaven now, I'm sure they want the truth to come out about the cause of this disaster.
Adam Neira
Founder of World Peace 2050
Founded in April 2000
Paris - Jerusalem - Melbourne
P.S. I have been following various Aircraft Crashes and Incidents very closely since April 2021. I have a very large file with media reports, research and evidence about more than 100 incidents around the world, with many in the USA.
Scheduled maintenance not done.........
how do you know
@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases He doesn’t, he’s just randomly guessing based on NOTHING.
Total elevator failure, right after takeoff
well thats all the evidence I need.
Yeah maybe that’s what it was. Based on the extreme steep decent and inversion it could be a stall as well!
I would never fly a plane with an elevator that I couldn't physically preflight....😮
If so, what would you do? Throttle back, wings level, reverse control? I realize it would be miraculous, would it be possible?
@@RealWoutLies your only chance might be to give it as much power as possible to increase speed and lift, or roll it inverted if it was stuck nose down, neither of those have a good chance of actually getting it back on the ground but you could stay in the air longer, maybe
Sounds like tail blew off and throttles stuck.
This crash is more problematic than the one in DC. The is noting left of the plane to examine. and the circumstances were even more strange than in DC. There is little explanation here.
Something no one is talking about. This was a medevac plane. How about an explosion onboard from oxygen? Something that was small enough to not destroy the plane initially, but was powerful enough to stun the pilots?
no it went down as one piece. I've also read that O2 tanks don't simply explode
You could see they were on fire on the way in at a very high velocity…..I’m thinking the same as you about some type of explosion
@@mikeschubert6528 Landing/nav/logo lights on low res video, not fire.
Yah oxygen doesn’t “explode” in the way movies sometimes make it out - it’s not hydrogen, it doesn’t “detonate” when in contact with a spark. Rather it accelerates an already existing fire… The Apollo 1 astronauts burned. They didn’t “explode”
@@zachtews You can blame Steven Spielberg for that nonsense. Remember how Roy Scheider killed the shark in Jaws? He stuck a SCUBA tank in its mouth and shot it with a .30-06, and it blew up.
Not only will a .30-06 round not penetrate a SCUBA tank, but if it did, it would just make a hole that would cause it to act like a rocket, not explode. And then there's the minor detail that SCUBA tanks are filled with air using a compressor, not oxygen. But other than that...
If the patient was going home to Mexico why the stop in Minnesota?
Why does it matter?
Missouri not Minnesota
Because READING COMPREHENSION was part of the test You failed. It was Missouri. Branson...Because the crew loves Country.
**Fuel**
People are harsh with their responses. As @darrens.4322 stated *Fuel*. The Branson Missouri stop was likely a fuel stop. I never flew the Lear 55. The Westwind II and Astra that I did fly, those aircraft are similarly sized business jets, many times did not have the range to fly nonstop coast to coast westbound due to the prevailing headwind. With six occupants and a load of fuel they were likely close to maximum allowable takeoff weight when they departed Northeast Philadelphia. There could be other operational reasons as well for the Missouri stop. I have no inside information.
Not "runway two one".
It is highly likely the plane had some catastrophic breakup in flight. Philadelphia City Manager announced airplane debris was found a good distance away from the crash site indicating an in-flight breakup
IF so wont that make all the so called experts look silly
NTSB believes it came down at one piece, the wide debris field could be a result of the high speed impact. Look at that initial impact point in the sidewalk.
It's not likely at all, imo. It does look like something departs the plane just before impact, but that is almost certainly from the overstress and not a cause..
@aviationaccidentsNTSBcases QUOTE: Philadelphia Managing Director Adam K. Thiel said debris may have fallen from the jet before it hit the ground and that the area of impact stretched four to six blocks.
“We also have debris in remote area where something happened with the aircraft,” Thiel said at a Saturday morning news conference. “That’s something we’ll need to leave to the NTSB to talk about.”
@bills6093 QUOTE: Philadelphia Managing Director Adam K. Thiel said debris may have fallen from the jet before it hit the ground and that the area of impact stretched four to six blocks.
“We also have debris in remote area where something happened with the aircraft,” Thiel said at a Saturday morning news conference. “That’s something we’ll need to leave to the NTSB to talk about.”
Appears to have stalled and to low attitude to recovee
Do not believe they stalled. They had very good speed over 200+ knots just before the upset, if that is what it was.
not consistent with a stall. spatial disorientation most likely.
@rdwoodw that quick? If they can't figure out the instruments in 60s they would have faced disaster a long time ago
@rdwoodw either a stall or improper load distribution. Have some experience, they might have had a C G shift
Captain Steve has a channel on here and at this point,he is guessing a stall.
This thing was an absolute MISSILE into the earth. Not only is the trajectory (i.e. almost completely vertical) strange but the SPEED the entire time. Is it possible there was some sort of hardware malfunction so serious not only could they NOT level the plane AT ALL, they ALSO couldn't slow it down. Otherwise, it kind of look like another suicidal pilot who decided to end his life and take a few innocent people with him.
Trajectory was not even close to “completely vertical”. But I’m sure you’ll ignore all the evidence that shows the real flight path, because it doesn’t fit your BS narrative.
My guess that the number 10 oxygen bottle fell over, snapped the neck off and then exited the aircraft taking that chunk of fuselage with it.
🤦♂️
Intentional nose down acceleration towards terrain
Unintentional....Spatial Disorientation
The video evidence of the jet’s decent is consistent with a stall.
not a stall, ADS-B data speeds well above stall speed.
Ground speed of 250kts with 11000 fpm descent doesn't jive with your assertion of a "stall"
No it isn’t
The NTSB mentioned (in their briefing posted after this) that the aircraft was on a right turn, then left turn, then descended out of control as reported here. No mention of a stall.
Too early for them to know
Trump has blamed the chopper pilot, ATC and Biden for the collision and he's got a point..:)
1:16 pilot says "Ready to taxi at ATLANTIC AVIATION"
Total failure of the human piloting system, probably long before take-off