Purgatory, Christ's Imputation, and Dr. Stravinskas
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- We want back to this video featuring Cameron Bertuzzi (non-Catholic) and Matt Fradd (Roman Catholic) and tackled the comments on purgatory rather in-depth. Finished up the program playing a clip from my 2001 debate with Fr. Peter Stravinskas.
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You are a blessing and for the Roman Catholic Church, a curse.
God bless you Dr.
Amen Dr. White! Without the imputed righteousness of Christ, we have no peace with God!
Grace
this interpretation doesn't coincide how we ought to be Christ-like. In one sense this can be called taken for granted approach and on another sense, we have to remember that no unclean can enter heaven that is very clear in the book of Revelation. Yes, Christ sacrifice is sufficient enough but human soul had to be cleansed. Why does the Bible talks about cleansing of fire if this imputation is correct rather than sacrificial one? Why does the Bible teach that we have to be sorry of our sins with a contrite heart? James White understanding is based on his own interpretation, nope it doesn't work that way because if this teaching is guided by the Holy Spirit why a debate must have to be an ongoing event for 500 years right now? Where is your faith? -faith cannot be academic like the way James White is deceiving people. He will soon realize, believe me.
@@Rob-mr1vkyou will be the one who realizes the hard way if you do not except Christ and stop trying to make yourself righteous on your own. If you are not seen righteous in Christ then you aren't going to be seen as righteous and if he's already done the work then why would you pay for anything? He has already paid for it all. It's terrible that you don't have peace and that you're still trying to earn it
@@Rob-mr1vkAnd you will continue to have questions as long as justification is confused with santification. Listen how James is explaining the difference between the two. Some refer to the warning passages in the Scripture ~ which are in reality the "voice of Shepherd guiding His Sheep" in the gospel of John. Yet the Shepherd say His sheep hear His voice and they know Him and finally no one ~ and He means it, no one, none, zero, can snatch them from His hand. Not even themselves. If one wanders away, he leaves the ninety nine and go and seek that which is lost and brings it back. The mystery of Galatians 2:20-21 can only make sense by believing in the work of God in us other than us waiting to be purified in fires of purgatory, the origin of which is still elusive.
Titus 3:5-7
Not by works of righteousness, but according to His mercy He has saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Thank you Dr. White for your ministry!
Hi DR. White, I listened to the entire Purgatory debate with Fr. Stravinskas, and I could tell he is not used to being challenged and couldn't handle it.
Yes, it is rather jarring when one tries to use Holy Scripture--liturgical book of prayer--as some kind of textbook
It's not that he's not used to arguing purgatory, it's the fact that he has NO GROUND TO STAND ON for that belief. That's why he was stumbling and bringing up the same things over and over.
I pray Catholics READ THE BIBLE FOR GOODNESS SAKES.
It wasn't easy finding a place to leave a comment on the 2001 debate with Peter Stravinskas as most videos are closed to comments. As a product of pre-Vatican II times, I was convent-schooled in the '40s and '50s. I just watched the debate on purgatory for the first time. It was good to see so many Catholics in the audience. I know they were there to cheer on Fr. Stravinskas but good seed was planted. At my great age, I can still recall the Latin quoted 🙂. The debate brought to mind a time when I would have put my hands over my ears rather than listen to anything negative about the beliefs I held before I found peace with God over 45 years ago. Thank you, Dr. White.
Great job DR. White. Please continue your great work for the glory of God! These videos have been a blessing for me.
remember when Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in purgatory" ?
I was saved in an emotional based teaching church. I didn't know anything of theology. I didn't know about Calvinism. Without church upbringing or discipleship after God saved me some how internal alarms would ring against false teaching or teachings that didn't line up with scripture. I never had never heard of Sola Scriptura. Yet I left the church God saved me (that I loved very much) because after being saved the bible organically became my standard. I started searching for a church that taught the bible and believed the bible was God's word and the way we are to know what He wants us to know. These were results of God saving me. I also was very uncomfortable with the fact that people would say that "I got saved" or I chose Jesus. I didn't know how I knew but I knew that God saved me. That I was incapable of getting saved if it were up to me. I didn't tell anyone because I didn't know how to explain it. I remember reading about Paul when Jesus saved him. I thought, see Paul didn't asked to be saved nor was he looking for Jesus. He was actually against Jesus. Sure I said a prayer that the church lady told me to say. But God saved me just before that. I was in the pew and all of sudden I got it. Jesus died for my sins. I am forgiven because of what Jesus did. I was so excited. I was forgiven.( I had been grieved that I couldn't get right with God for years.) One second I did not get it but the next I did. See, comes by hearing but hearing comes by The Word of God. My hearing happened because of God. I could never hear before that even though I had ears that seemed to work. And the Holy Spirit by the Word of God convicted me and taught me some how before I learned. So, when I heard Sola Scriptura I was like so that is what I believed when I got saved but didn't know the name. Oh and the guilt I felt for not believing in a pretrib rapture made me think I was prideful. I thought I was the only Christian who could not see that when reading scripture. I kept praying for God to help me see it. Why couldn't I see what every Christian saw and believed about the rapture. I started going along with it because I thought I just had to have faith. Can you imagine the joy I had when I found out that other Christians, bible scholars even also didn't believe in a Pre trib rapture? I am not a highly educated person. The Holy Spirit showed me the truth in scripture about core issues. It's heart breaking to see Cameron (I think that is his name) say some of the things he can go along with. I know Dr. J. White says this is why apologist need to go to seminary but some of the stuff Cameron is going along with makes me think he probably needs to pray. I can't imagine that the Holy Spirit is confirming these thing in him as he reads scripture. It's like I can see him falling away and wonder did Cameron really have a true conversion if the spirit in him isn't all about the bible alone and not fables from men. Sorry for the book for those who made it to the end of my comment.
What are the things White says that make you question his spiritual state?
@@brycetonkin672 I wonder now myself what I was questioning. Maybe his beliefs in theonomy? I didn't know that word back then and wasn't familiar with the teaching. So perhaps that was coming through and I didn't understand. But maybe not. Since then I have seen Dr. James in person and whatever doubts I had I don't recall at the moment what they were. I don't have them. Theonomy is the only thing that comes to mind but maybe it wasn't that. Sorry I don't recall.
@@brycetonkin672 I realize after re reading what I wrote the he was supposed to mean Cameron not James White. I edited it to make it clear I meant Cameron.
Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD will not impute sin.
Amen glory to God
@@RansomedSoulPsalm49-15 Soli Deo gloria.
Would love to see you respond to more of Matt Fradd’s videos. He has been putting out a lot of videos recently trying to show what Catholic teachings Protestants can accept like Mary being co-redemptrix.
That’s sad to hear
Copy & Paste!
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-- by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. -Ephesians 2:1-10 ESV
16 "For God so loved the world,[9] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
-John 3:16-17 ESV
43 Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
-John 6:43-44 ESV
1 In the third year of Hoshea son of Elah, king of Israel, Hezekiah the son of Ahaz, king of Judah, began to reign. 2 He was twenty-five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned twenty-nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah. 3 And he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, according to all that David his father had done. 4 He removed the high places and broke the pillars and cut down the Asherah. And he broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had made offerings to it (it was called Nehushtan). 5 He trusted in the Lord, the God of Israel, so that there was none like him among all the kings of Judah after him, nor among those who were before him. 6 For he held fast to the Lord. He did not depart from following him, but kept the commandments that the Lord commanded Moses. 7 And the Lord was with him; wherever he went out, he prospered. He rebelled against the king of Assyria and would not serve him. 8 He struck down the Philistines as far as Gaza and its territory, from watchtower to fortified city.
-2 Kings 18:1-8 ESV
9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God." 10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
-Revelation 19:10 ESV
1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
-1 Timothy 2:1-8 ESV
37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."
-Acts 2:37-39 ESV
18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[2] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
-Matthew 28:18-20 ESV
No one can accept that false teaching, not even Catholics as it’s not dogma
Who can accept co-redeemer? Nah, man.
The fact he thinks Mary being a coredeemer is something small protestants can accept shows how deceived he is. Lord Jesus please reach these people
I watched this young man being convinced by this nice Catholic and i thought he will become a Catholic, and he did! He did not know what he believed then. But i feel for him because niceness is not equal to truth.
It's not easy for me to be confrontational about issues like this. Cameron reminds me a lot of myself in that respect. So I appreciate your approach Dr. White. I would love to see either Cameron, Matt, sit down for a discussion with you.
This is a fruitful video! I have watched many of this Fradd gentleman's videos and am thankful for your thoughtful, biblically sound critique of this one and the alarming view of 'purgatory' as biblical.
Thankyou for this response to give clarity what salvation actually means. It is so important to know the actual argument of the Reformers against Rome on this subject and know what is actual Protestant teaching.
Glory to God
arminians love their analogies
So did Jesus
@@lukusmaximus The difference is that one is true while the other false.
Jesus Himself made an unclean man clean by basically looking at him and saying "You are clean".
So Catholics think He cant do the same?
Simple - basic Psalm 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us." Christ has done that - we can not - nor could we ever even if we had an eternity in "purgatory"..
that's a great reference
If imputationist is the term. count me as one!
Imputationist indeed!
i have watched that debate about 10 times.....
The other "gentleman" was a bit aggravated in that debate, if i remember correctly. It was a good one!
@@Navarrator10 Yeah you can tell he was becoming increasingly uncomfortable as Dr. White was exegeting the text.
Some points against James Whites statements to consider -
Peace with God is statement made by Paul in Rom 5:1 as a covenant phrase, which infers a covenant theology in Romans. And yet, the double imputation within the penal substitution theory seems to be devoid of covenant theology. How can the so called imputationists claim to have the gospel when the penal substitution theory requires god to lie about Christ and the justified sinner, without reference to a systematic covenant theology?
Christ’s intercession at the right hand is a fulfillment of Ps 110 in the context of a resurrected son of a king who acts as a priest in the order of Melchizedek. How does the penal substitution theory claim to have a court room scene when Rom 8:34 includes a reference to Ps 110?
If the penal substitution theory is correct, how does the sinner get to heaven when only the Christ’s righteousness is imputed to the sinners account? After all, if there is no sin in heaven, the sinner cannot have any sin within him, but must have a perfect love of God (Rom 5:5).
If Christ’s righteousness is imputed to the sinners account whilst the man remains a sinner, how is penal substitution theory not a partial righteousness, when a full righteousness would have the power of God act within the sinner to remove all sin from the justified man?
The Catholic allegation of the fiction in penal substitution theory is clear because the reformed understanding has the sinner remain a sinner, whilst declared righteous. For James to refer to Rom 4:6-9 to claim imputation as understood by the penal substitution theory, assumes St Paul is speaking of penal substitution, when in fact the reformed must only ever assume the theory is in Rom 4, without proof of penal substitution. St Paul may, and is in fact be speaking of something else, using some language of non imputation of sin. St Paul is speaking of a covenant non imputation of sin, where he refers to Abraham as our covenant father (Rom 4:1).
The Catholic sacramental system is well established in the church fathers and ecumenical councils. Penal substitution theory is however only a theory developed by some reformers in the 16th century in opposition to the catholic sacramental system. Penal substitution theory contains several obvious blasphemies about God acting fictionally to impute sin to Christ and righteousness to the sinner. These obvious errors contrary to God’s nature as the all holy God, exclude penal substitution theory as a viable candidate to explain or exegete Rom 4.
The temporal time in purgatory is classified in relation to the notion of days included in the doctrine of indulgences, which is only an indicator of a time in purgatory. The time in purgatory is a time defined by the soul separated from the body outside of sequential time experienced by men living in this life with a body. The allotment of days and Mary’s promise to act on the first Saturday after death is indicative of a time in purgatory which is not temporal, but descriptive of a time similar to eve-eternity.
The finished work of Christ is not ever correctly understood to be finished within penal substitution theory simply because the theory requires God to lie multiple times. The finished work within penal substitution theory is itself another Protestant error associated with the lies God does within penal substitution theory.
Not trying to misrepresent your argument, but maybe your argument doesn't work against Protestantism because you seem to simply not include the fact that protestants believe in regeneration in addition to justification by faith.
We have to realize how serious it is to God to accept an accursed Gospel....It is a truly damning sin....1 Galatians, even to add one work to CHrist sacrifice creates a false gospel and is not good news for salvation....This is taught very plainly....
There is always this presupposition that implies that if I believe something, my believing makes it true and real. Our beliefs have to be informed by the truth of scripture, not the other way.
"The doctrine of purgatory is bologna. Therefore, I will have a purgatory sandwich with mustard!" - Deliverance (Christian metal band). "purgatory sandwich"
The danger to the doctrine of the Imputation of Christ’s righteousness is that it ultimately and logically follows that what we do after coming to faith does not matter (in regards to our final eternal place of residency). Since who will lay a charge against God’s elect?
I think this idea can lead to complacency and not striving for perfection since sinning here and there is going to happen by default.
As such, I prefer a balance. It truly matters how we live after coming to faith. In fact, many people who think they are saved because they have faith in Jesus but don’t have any good works will not have obeyed the Gospel. And thus, like the man with no wedding clothes in the parable Jesus gave, will be tossed outside along with the rest of the lost.
Christ imputation of righteousness would not make any since on that parable since by default we get the clothes on even if our lives and actions didn’t look like we had them on.
As Jesus said, “Why do you call me Lord but don’t do as I tell you to do?” That ain’t going to cut it. As such I don’t think there is an imputed righteousness, rather there is an individual judgment for each person and what they did or didn’t do will factor into the outcome.
What this means is that part of Christ’s ministry was to be actual change in the hearts of people and inspire them to be like himself. And it’s these types of folks that he is seeking to bring into eternity with. Perfect? No. Persistent? Faithful? Yes.
Besides all of that, we will get new bodies without the sin nature, without the ability to think in a way that would lead to doubt and ultimately sin. Not enticed by fleshy desires anymore or temptations for wrong.
We forget that in order to enter heaven, we have to put on the incorruptible first, the imperishable first.
“I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”
1 Corinthians 15:50 ESV
So my point is that we will all be changed before entering heaven and thus be in a state that is without sin, righteous, incorruptible and perfect, without blemish etc before enter in to the real Kingdom.
It doesn't surprise me that Wesleyan-Arminians are starting to accept Roman Catholic doctrine on Purgatory. Wesleyanism has such a theologically liberal perspective on everything, ranging from soteriology, to ecclesiology, to metaphysics. I'm an Arminian and a Molinist, but I make it known that I'm not at all in the Wesleyan tradition. I actually have respect for most Reformed teachings, I'm just not a Calvinist in my soteriology.
What is really sad is that Bertuzzi is not able to raise any serious objection to Matt Fradd's arguments
He saved him self.....
Wow that’s a fascinating translation...hahahha
Seriously now, seems to me that they don’t love the truth, but they rejoice in unrighteousness.
Roman Catholicism not retconning their religion challenge (impossible)
I grateful for the sanctification process - no question - but it won’t be complete here. And imputed righteousness? I have no hope without it. I’m still scared to face the Lord. I don’t understand how people have no fear of the Lord and take hope in purgatory. Where’s Jesus Christ in that?
I know I’m “Old” 😁, in the debate clip (from yonder a year or 15 back): I saw a brief glimpse of RA (Real Audio software) icons. You youngsters don’t remember RA. It was a dinosaur of a program, very low quality, but back then we thought we had cutting edge StarTrek equipment.
Armenians would agree and at the last minute say, "but you can lose your salvation." I can never comprehend why they would say that after supposedly acknowledging that we are saved by faith, grace and not by works. I'm always puzzled with them. Catholics..the same.
I am Bible believing Christian and not Catholic or Armenian, however, I do believe you can lose your salvation. It's not a works issue, it's a state of heart issue.
Let's say someone comes to the Lord when they are a teen and when they reach adulthood and marry, let's say have a child and that child dies a tragic death by cancer. This person can't get past it and ends up an atheist saying that they don't believe anymore in a God that would allow such a thing. They attest they firmly believed in Jesus and His saving work, but they don't anymore and have clearly rejected Jesus.
This, imo, is a clear case of losing one's salvation due to, not lack of works, but a state of heart and unbelief.
I can also point you to Isaiah 1, where God lays out his charges against Israel and how they hate him and love evil, but they have a chance for redemption.
I do not prefer the term loss of salvation, but one in a current state of apostasy or being backslidden which can and does happen.
However, I reject the "once saved always saved vs "you can lose your salvation" on the basis of works.
It's about your heart and has always been about your heart.
Yes, Dr. White. Your understanding is in fact a fiction. God would not insist that we need to be perfect as He is perfect if your understanding was correct. Christ doesn't just cover us in a veneer of His holiness, He actually makes us holy as He is Holy, and our lives bear witness to that.
scapular - had to look this one up. Essentially, a talisman
Yep the 'great exchange' is quite literally the gospel. They argue infused vs imputed, but the perspective is always us towards God...Look at it from God towards us; He became sin who knew no sin. In other words, our sin is imputed to Him on the cross. Therefore His righteousness as our is _necessarily_ imputed, since we have had our sins atoned for. We _are_ reconciled to the Father!!!
The church of man says there is no purgatory. But the church of God says there is purgatory. Where do you believe? ???
Does the redemption of Jesus with his blood mean no purgatory? Answer no First: Even if a person is redeemed from sin but the next day he commits a venial sin and dies, he will not go straight to heaven because he commits a venial sin. After the redemption took place for example seven days ago
Second, the blood of Jesus washes away sin, but everyone is the one who will cleanse the heart and his mind 2 Corinthians 7:1 The fault of the Protestants because they are washed with blood they Totally clean , Its wrong because the blood cleanses from sin but the heart of Every person will be cleansed personally own work 2 Corinthians 7:1 and in Revelation 21:27 no one will enter the kingdom that is unclean, so it will go through purification if it dies without purification. It will go through purgatory purification for example zechariah 13:9 and on the day of judgment 1 corinthian 13:5
And thirdly, purgatory is a state that also pays for the damage of sin, even if there is no sin, but there is damage done as a result of sin, it will be paid for in purgatory, for example, to make it easy to understand, you get sick with Gonorrhea, or AIDS, you repent of your sin, of course you are forgiven but the damage of sin which is AIDS remain for you
Where can I get the debate link?
After all Purgatory is necessitated by the TEMPORAL consequences of sin.which is expiated by TEMPORAL sufferings.
The “dirty before entering the house” thing is wild considering Christ already washed you😂😂
fr. mitch pacwa's explanation of the doctrine of purgatory is the best representative of catholic teaching
And yet ..not taught nor endorsed by any Apostolic author. Catholicism is a man made religion around Christ. Repent!
2:04. Exactly. It is actually because Mr White has an incorrect interpretation of 2 Corinthians Chapter 5 wherein Justification is solely an imputed righteousness that a final sanctification or cleasing is logically necessary even within that understanding of Justification itself. Mr White acknowledges his own heart is sinful AFTER he has been Justified. I also acknowledge my status as a sinner after my own initial justification, so I am not condemning him or anyone else. I am just pointing out that if Justification is simply the imputed righteousness of Christ, than White's sinful heart remains sinful AFTER justification and should he die tonight and be guaranteed to be in Heaven due to that imputed righteousness, than Mr White's sinful heart will have to be cleansed after his death so that he may enter into the presence of God.
We are already seated with Him in heaven.
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,”
Ephesians 2:4-6
Regeneration precedes Faith.
@@chrismachin2166 are you saying one has to have a born again repentance event so radical and complete that it puts one on par with Wesley's concept of "Christian perfection" before he receives the gift of Justifying Faith? If so, Catholics agree that such a person is free and ready to walk right through St Peter's gate. In fact, most would say that level of holiness is not required for assurance of salvation
@@wayned803 Did you look at the video?
JC PG posted 2 years ago,” Amen Dr. White! Without the imputed righteousness of Christ,we have no peace with God!”
This is the truth. I agree,but Roman Catholics at the Council of Trent declared imputed righteousness is anathema.
They( RC’s) do not agree with the Reformed position. they believe a different false Gospel.
Take a look at the video as it is explains far better than I could put in a few words.
Would have loved to see the comment about c s Lewis believing in purgatory.
The imputed righteousness in Christ is in Catholicism- Indulgences. It’s temporary and occasional loseable imputation. That’s why they can get you out of Purgatory.
Second chapter Are all evils equal? Answer not according to the scriptures Leviticus 20:14 versus Exodus 21:24 Observe the two verses are different, God did not say all kinds of evil are the same, the punishment is the same. It is clear that the punishment is not equal, Maybe the excuse in the new covenant is different, The answer is the same, Matthew 5:22 Jesus gave a comparison, the destination of each evil is different, he did not say Both will go to hell, another evidence Matthew 23:14 so the lesson that equal is equal is wrong. if James White's Son shot his child with a water gun after the police retaliated with gunfire and the Child died, James White shall be complain??? . The punishment for his Son is excessive, and the shooter will be charged with Murder to him therefore he complain or his child son burn into fire because he shoot water gun , james white will be complain that too much punishment ??so he executed a case againts him that burn his child
if a person have a Small sin die with a small sin or venial sin will he go to hell or eternal fire ??? no even jesus give a comparison
and another bible evedence Matthew 18:34-35
[34]And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
[35]So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
jesus did not say but your father in heaven is defferent he will punish in eternal life . If you not forgive even a venial sin God will not forgive also your venial sin this topic is About not forgiving to the venial sin
we should not think The mortal sin we forgive but we choose to remain not forgive the venial sin to other . if that case jesus taught this matthew 18:34-35
Papists should be open to the Word of God over the words of a man in red shoes.
The only way you can be sold this garbage is, if you have not yet been born again...Once the power of God hits a person and changes them, they come to grips really quickly with the fact that they are powerless to change and God indeed is the provider of everything we need to live the christian life and finally and completely save us with no human power needed...>We simply get changed by God and because we get a new heart with new desires we now live like a christian because we are new person in Christ....2 Cor 5;17....be born again and everything begins to make sense, until then you will be prey for false forms of righteousness.....I was for a long time, but no more, I was born again and the lights came on...
The Catholic Church hasn’t ever made a dogmatic statement about the temporal nature of purgatory. Not even at Florence or Trent. I was looking at your book, “The Roman Catholic Controversy” when I was listening to this, and the quotes you provide there do not point to a dogmatic statement about the temporal nature of purgatory. But yes, the Church in official documents that aren’t dogmatic did take up a temporal view of purgatory, and yes much of Latin Catholic piety takes up the same view. But it’s still not a dogma
Seems like nothing is dogmatic anymore with the Catholic Church.
@@TheDrummaBen dogmas have been overstated in the popular level conception of Catholicism. Even the list of 21 Ecumenical Councils is dubious.
@@djspenceital Just from an outsiders perspective...seems like what used to be dogmatic no longer is...and everythings all good. I saw Bishop Robert Baron look Ben Shapiro right in the eye and tell him "You can be saved without believing in Christ." Its still the mercy of Christ indirectly received. Bro that is so far away from all the popes and bishops of old.
@@djspenceital For the record I think dogma is a good thing. Dogma that stands the test of time...and It just seems like the catholic church is failing that test and adjusts their dogmas based on what gives them the most power and influence in the world.
I don't think your debate with Fr Stravinskas was very good. He seemed flustered and unsure of his opinions and beliefs. Not to say you didn't 'win' the debate but in my opinion that he wasn't a good representative for the Catholic side of things.
I think the Orthodox Church also doesn't believe in imputation
They don't, but they also reject the notion of purgatory.
@@ironyusa3885 their believe is closer to purgatory than the evangelical believe.
And the. Third chapter
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The three child in fatima are withnnes which is biblical witnesses this is one of the strongest evedence, these child They see the purgatory they are withnnes of purgatory They saw the three child hell and purgatory and According to the scriptures three witnesses should be accepted Deuteronomy 15:19. and these witnesses are extra ordinary witnesses because according to the scriptures, the Kingdom of heaven belongs to children, so the three are special witnesses because the Kingdom of heaven belongs to them Matthew 19:14
this is one of the great evedence about the Doctrine of purgatory
biblical witnesses three person should be Accepted
and these three withness are Special withness for such is the kingdom of God matthew 15:14
The church of Man said there is no purgatory while the church of God Said There is a purgatory Who you believe in this two ???
Inspiration is NOT what separates "them" from "arminians". It's the character of YHWH as described in the bible (YHWH is agape) and the full text of Scripture (as opposed to how reformed people limit the text). To try to lump that in with purgatory and other false teachings is so dishonest. I really am glad I never followed him in the past after this and the dishonesty present in his video about David Wood.
"Why don't I fear the wrath of God?" Because according to the text although the flesh is still slave to the sin nature the heart (will, thought, emotion - the Person) has been freed. So what the flesh desires has nothing to do with you. This is actually what imputation refers to.
"Why does there need to be another work?" Because the bible says so. Of course, purgatory is wrong, but the text teaches that the glory of each person will be different according to their works. Which again ties back into the flesh being slave to sin. By your works in this life, and the degree to which you bend to the flesh therein, you determine homuch of YHWH's glory you want to participate in. And thus, how many crowns you will bear and how much responsibility as a king you will bear accordingly.
Kindly read it my 3 long commends
This guy is a wolf I’m Sheeps clothing. The Catholic Church has never defined a temporal duration and he knows it. The scapular is not a dogma defined by the Catholic Church. Indulgences were abused prior to the reformation unlike other Catholics some are willing to admit that they were abuses and reforms prior to Martin Luther but when he took it to Sola Scriptura and sola Fide he took it too far. If your moral leader ship is you’re standing for the right religion then you would’ve missed the true religion during the Davidic kingdom. I don’t buy the imputed Righteousness upon believers because I do not believe in faith alone but even if imputed righteousness was placed upon the believer then why wouldn’t purgatory be included in gods grace. You do not go to hell from purgatory only souls on the way to heaven go there.
Found out that antipodean chap lives about two hours from me.
what a wicked false gospel
I mean what to expect from a wicked Roman Empire but wickedness right ?
@@Mustafaljuboori haha heyyyyy bro you know what im sayin??
@@mike_AD broooooooo I know 100% what you saying. 😜
Every time you say no one would debate that, it reminds me of Dr. Flowers 😂
Sad
Yeah if your following a Bible with books ripped out its gonna be hard to follow historical Christianity..
Books that have contradictory teachings to the whole of Scripture and/or incorrect history are not theopneustos and have no place in the canon.
so the imputation of Christ's righteouisness BY DEFINITION does not change the believer - but James Whilte is trying to explain that there is no need to purification or final sanctification in order to enter the glory of God - - and the only reason he follows such contrived logic is not to allow a reasonable discussion of the catholic positions - he always feels the need to charicaturate and misrepresent the Catholic faith
We are already seated in heaven with Christ.
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,”
Ephesians 2:4-6
Yay another video of Dr White staying relevant by not understanding Catholicism.
KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC I agree. Many Protestants are thick headed about true Orthodox Christianity.
@JoeyD eh perhaps you’re right.
Purgatory was one of the doctrines that led me to the Catholic Church
@A P It's not sarcasm - true statement!
@JoeyD Why would you expect to see it clearly in the Bible?
@JoeyD Do you believe all of the Christians who held these beliefs before the Reformation were heretics?
@JoeyD Would someone believing in purgatory, the Marian dogmas, the sacrifice of the Mass and forgiveness of sins through baptism be a true Christian?
@JoeyD The reason I ask is those doctrines seem to be almost universally held in the early Church
Catholics do not deny the declarative reality of justification. It's wedded to the ontological change of being joined to the Living Christ. God unites us to Jesus. With that in mind, remember that, according to the magisterial teaching, all in purgatory are justified and on their way to glorification. Only someone in Jesus' grace "goes" to or experiences purgatory on their way to perfect glorification by the Spirit.
That's taught in Scripture?
@@bobpolo2964 which part are you considering?
@@lhinton281 purgatory
@bob polo I think it is implied in Scripture. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? He who has clean hands and a pure heart. God disciplines us so that we might share in his holiness. We must pursue holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Even if we die in Christ, it does not mean we are perfectly holy and righteous in heart and life. Purgatory is the term describing the "suffering of loss" yet being saved through fire. It is a final grace and discipline for God's children to enter heaven. There is in Scripture the idea of having sins forgiven in this age or the one to come. Also, the Church has prayed for the dead since her inception (it's a Jewish practice). Those in hell are damned and those in heaven are perfected in Christ. Prayers benefit those still being purged. Finally, many have had visions of purgatory.
@@lhinton281 I would argue that no one in heaven is perfected because they are not whole as God intended humanity to be (body and soul creatures). We're not gnostics, plus the promise of the gospel is a renewed earth, not heaven. Also, a salvific doctrine found in an implication seems awfully strange.
What Scriptures are you referring to?