I think male and female channelers learning to work together more will be one of the most significant developments in the Fourth Age. The greatest accomplishments of the Age of Legend were said to have been achieved by male and female channelers working together. They can create circles of up to 72 and exponentially increase the amount of power channeled.
I can just see it... Galad: Keep those wimples tight, ladies! Ladies: (sigh longingly) Galad: All dresses are to be ankle-length! Ladies: (sigh longingly) Galad: Okay, now I'm going to practice sword forms with my shirt off... Ladies: (sigh longingly and hit the tip jar in massive numbers)
I'd be curious to see if Hawkwing talking to Toun changes anything. Also with that line in Aviendas flash forward it says something about them coming close to an agreement before the death of their leader or something.
The first two points rely heavily on what you assume that conversation was like. I imagine it is a firm refutation of Seanchan society. 1st would be Hawkwing firmly establishing that he personally serves the Dragon, as a hero of the horn. This would permanently place the Seanchan below the authority of the Dragon's Peace. 2nd would be the refutation of Seanchan society itself as Hawkwing's behavior in life was influenced by or even under the compulsion of Ishmael. It's possible Hawkwing would condemn Seanchan as a byproduct of the will of the Shadow. Another thing to keep in mind is Robert Jordan's basic plan to write a series about Mat and Tuon reclaiming Seanchan. Though Naeblis puts forward the cynical possible futures... one would have to assume further writing would have the story of beating those odds.
I think it is heavily implied that the dragons peace held until the Aiel attacked as they didn’t have any purpose and the treaty didn’t include the Aiel.
I agree because can you fir a minute see mat allowing women even channellers to be slaves and whipped ? He would not - he may not be ta’veren anymore but the was placed in the searchable ranks for more than one reason - basically the reason his nature is what it is was not needed up to now - but will né in the 4th age.
I guess if he addresses how he himself was coerced (compulsed?) into his later doings, including going against the Aes Sedai (though the blame there surely goes 50/50 on him an Bonwhin at least) and I guess the expedition to Seanchan itself maybe, it could spin things a lot.Though that might need some more people than only Tuon witnessing it, first and foremost Galgan I guess, with him, Tuon, some der'suldam and Mat on the same page, changes are definitely possible.
I think some Aes Sedai or Wise One Dreamer will realize they can reverse the polarity of the sul-dam/damane leash as they sleep and totally throw Seanchan into chaos.
The drilling of the bore happened because the AS then thought they had hit their limit at what saidar and saidin can do separately. With the new talents discovered at the end of the 3rd age (bonding, notably between androl and pevara) I think we will see the 2 towers unite to exceed what was done in the AoL.
I have come up with one Fan Fiction idea, set 17 years after the final battle. A Bridge has been built across the Taren at Taren Ferry and all the major characters that still live have gathered for a grand opening to be done by Queen Elayne. Introduces some of the next Generation, gives some info on what everyone has been up to. The Bridge has been built by a combination of using the one Power and Ogier Stonemasons.
I really think the most important figure at the start of the 4th Age is Tuon and what her next decision is. She has the most powerful Military left in the World and she has the finest General in the world. Realistically she has the Military to seize the entire Westlands straight away, it will be years before the other Nations are able to muster the strength to match her. But she also has the problem of the collapse into Civil War of the Seanchan Empire at home and we don’t know enough of the situation back in Seanchan to know if she could realistically return and take back Seandar. Is there dozens of factions fighting over the Empire or has one leader emerged and is consolidating their position. Either way she could find herself mired in a decades long Civil War or be defeated and killed upon return. Will she abide by the Dragons Peace, believing that the Dragon is dead. Her best chance of seizing the Westlands is to move immediately. Doubt Mat would support any such move but if he did and took control of the Armies, it would be a complete rout.
My gaming group are all Wheel of Time junkies. We are currently doing the trolloc wars with them as shadow spawn. Every campaign has been a turning of the wheel in a different age.
1) Dragon's Peace will hold as long as Mat and Fortuona are married. There is at least one fanfic describing how they will retake Seanchan. 2) The Second Age seems to have been technologically advanced, but most of that technology was combined with the One Power. The Fourth Age will rebuild the technology of the First Age, alongside the One Power but not dependent on it. 3) The only ones who remember how male and female Aes Sedai worked together in the Age of Legends are Rand, who has gone off without recording Less Therin's memories, and Moghedien, now a _damane._ (Mesaana and Hesalam are both useless.) So the Black and White Towers will be rivals and sometimes allies, but will not combine. The Black Tower may choose to limit their channeling in some way, and the Red Ajah will take the position of enforcement. Now my fanfic - Rand will be like Hari Seldon, popping up every decade or so, making adjustments as needed. It will be subtle _Daes Daemar,_ never through coercion; he knows his place.
I agree with points 2-4, but like many on here I think the Dragons Peace will hold. One of the key reasons why the Pattern spun out Perrin was to provide the insight on the Aiel's new role as peace keepers. This would be pointless if they weren't capable of doing so. Also, with the Dark One locked away again there is no longer the DIRECT influence that he provided on humankind. Robert Jordan borrowed a lot from Biblical literature and there is a parallel here with the devil being locked away for a thousand years in Revelation, when it is stated that he will no longer lead the nations astray. There will still be the Shadow, but it will arise from people's hearts and not an exterior force. And let's not forget that in the Age of Legends people could not even conceive of battle, so it is possible in the books for society to reach a stage beyond conflict. Also, Mat is one of the most powerful figures in the Empire and his influence will be key. The Pattern didn't just spin out Rand, Perrin and Mat to win the last Battle, but to support a new Age of unity and balance. I agree that it will not be like the Age of Legends, but that doesn't mean that everything has to fall into ruin again. People will likely be inspired by the Last Battle and the peace loving leaders it has generated. Exploring the 4th Age is definitely a good idea for a series. I wonder if Mr Jordan left any notes on what he had in mind for it? Though he never intended to write about it, I would be very surprised if he hadn't pictured the end goal. And another reason why I don't think the 4th Age will be like the 2nd Age is that the Age of Legends followed our age, which developed technology first before discovering the One Power, whereas in the 4th Age the One Power has been developed before technology. It would be interesting to theorise how this might change the path of development. However I think the biggest surprises will stem from the fact that some things previously not known or imagined to be possible in the Age of Legends have been discovered by some of the key characters, especially bonding which was never known in the Age of Legends. How Ashaman and Aes Sedai work together in this new fashion will drive real change in ways that can surely only bring the White and Black Towers together. I think with Rand's body swap and the sharing of thoughts and emotions in Bonding, there will be real questions asked and developments made in the nature of self and being.
Jordan discussed doing a series of "outrigger novels" that were going to be about Mat and Tuon in Seanchan cleaning up the mess Semirhage created, but apparently he left very little beyond a sentence or two on the idea in his notes
Love it! As a major WOT fan I’ve thought about this quite a bit. I agree about the Dragon’s Peace. Matt’s relationship with Tuon is one thing that you didn’t bring up, but when I think about that relationship... Tuon is gonna do what she wants to do regardless; you would just hope Matt’s sincerity would rub off on her. Also, Im doubtful that Rand-in the body of “Moridin”- would really be able to retire and just stand by as corruption, evil and political maneuvering continue.
@@hiltrud2001, maybe not. Remember when he threatened Cadsuane that he could stop her heart just by wanting to? Then, when he lights his pipe at the end, that's apparently just by him wanting to do so.
Disagree that Seanchan are the most powerful at the end of the books, I believe Andor with it's Dragons (Cannons) would be a distinct game changer, additionally having access to both Tar Valon and the Black tower along with the most powerful sa'angreal copied by Elayne gives Andor the edge. Only fans, Berelain for sure. Everyone else has too many hangups.
The absolute biggest weakness of the Seanchen is their inability to link. Especially when male ard females are in a circle against them. I think this weakness is too great for the overwhelming numbers to overcome. Also, they are way behind in angreal and sa'angreal. Other then the a'dam there isn't much mention of angreal or sa'angreal being used by them. I'm guessing because using two together can have catastrophic effects. Combining Avienda's ability to read angreal/sa'angreal with Elyane's ability to make them and the possibilities are near endless. The Seanchen will know these weaknesses and I don't think they will be too eager to jump into open conflict with the other nations. The White Tower, the Black Tower, and the Wise Ones combined will be plenty of deterrent I think. I think there is at least a 50% (if not more) chance of the Dragon's peace holding for the 100 years. The Wise One's are clever. Without the blood fued, that was averted by including them in the peace, they will need to find other ways of getting their people back from the seanchen without breaking the peace. I think their ability to dream is the key in this regard. The Shara are the real wild card. Their entire political structure was turned upside-down leading up to the Last Battle and then again after. They will be in chaos, and with a power vacuum. If war breaks out with Shara, then that will help solidify the Dragon's Peace.
I don't think the seachan will be a problem. I feel like tuon got put in her place a little between rand and Matt with hawkwing. The Aiel said they won't fight them and I think they would hold to the agreement made with egwyene. I think they would spend their time retaking seanchan and leaving a status quo in the Westland. Just what I think lol great stuff and keep them coming.
I disagree about the Dragon's peace - you see when Aviendha goes to the columns the second tine, everyone seems to be holding to the peace, and it is only the Aiel (who were not bound to it) that broke the peace. That being absent there is no reason to assume that this part of the vision (the peace) would be wrong. The same is true for #2. Also the argument about empires not being stable doesn't fit with the fact that they were an empire in their homeland for 1000 years.
Actually, if I remember the history of it correctly, the Seachan had only just finished conquering their lands a hundred or so years prior to the books. Without room to expand anymore, they would have collapsed. But I agree about the peace. And with the black and white towers, I would see it having one tower for training women and one tower for training men and a third for trained aes sedai given how many more there are going to be.
I don't necessarily agree, I think that the Dragon's Peace will last maybe 50 years at most. But the Seanchan will do something that will cause a breaking of the treaty. As we saw in Aviendha's vision the reason the Aiel went to war with them was because they still held Wise Women captive as Damanae. And it looks like they can make Domination Bands to force men to be leashed as well. The Seanchan are not stable, they have fought many rebellions many of the Seanchan Povs admit that there are plenty of them and have fought in some of them. That's why they were still sharp and more prepared for war then most of the Westland nations. The spread of ideas is what will destroy them. Their reason for holding those who can channel is specifically because they are afraid they'd rule the world, and yet in Randland they don't. It will break them soon.
This is great Nae'Blis! This topic is something I've been wondering about for a while. Your deep dives were wonderfully insightful and helped me better understand my first read through.
I do agree about number 2. However, Seanchan's leadership is not intact. I could be wrong, but I remember one of the Forsaken talking about the capital being in flames, and the court of the Nine Moons being slaughtered. This suggests to me that only Tuon is left. Previously stable vassal states are probably already rising up in the empire. about number 4: I agree to some extent, but eventually he will be completely forgotten. Given the circular nature of time in WoT memory of him has to be totally gone by the time the Age of Legends rolls around again. The bore was sealed in that age, yes, but imperfectly, as "naming the dark one" attracted his attention. I would presume this is no longer the case with the new seal, else how would anyone ever forget about it?
I think that the black tower and white tower would unite and form what Emarin called the Silver Tower. My reasoning is that Moiraine on supporting Rand's peace treaty said the pattern demands balance. The last time the fight against the dark one broke the world and this time it'd unite it. Incidentally it separated male from female aes sedai. The pattern would see them reunited. In any case they'd already started bonding each other.
and there will also be male Aiel and Sea Folk popping up in need of some kind of jobs too plus the remaining Kin who I think will all end up banding together to avoid getting collared by Seanchan. I can totally see the expansion of the Kin's "underground railroad" to get channelers out of Seanchan held territory too which already includes man-damane (manmane?)
I really liked you saying the Shonchien are collapsing and explaining why. after Avienda's vision, I was terrified of the thought of them taking control... but you make it sound much more reasonable like that, and it's very interesting because most people tend to think of the Shonchien as unbeatable, but actually you make much sense begging to differ.
One of the things about the Wheel of Time is that the world changes, each Age is very different to the last and i do believe that by the end of the 4th Age it will look very different then at the start. One plausible hypothesis i have come up with is that the Black Tower will eventually seize total power in the world, overthrowing the White Tower and absorbing all Channelers into it and rules for several thousand years. The Age ends when Ishamael reborn seizes power, becoming Emperor. The Dragon is reborn and they eventually fight off in the ruins of Tar Valon, this sets of a very powerful, previously unknown Sa Angreal, destroying the entire Island and Dragonmount explodes into a massive Volcanic event, setting off a extinction level event world wide. The 5th Age begins with the survivors virtually back to the Stone Age.
It makes me sad to think about the Dragon’s Peace falling apart. That was Rand’s biggest accomplishment, at least in his mind. But, I think you’re probably right. Particularly because the Seanchan had so few losses in the Last Battle compared to the other groups, such as the Aes Sedai and Aiel.
I think the Seanchan are Militarily strong enough take the entire Westlands straight after the final battle, I seriously doubt that the Nations are in any condition to stop them. The BT can’t match the number of Damane they have and the AS can’t directly fight them and are severely weakened anyway.
I think they will hold the Dragon Peace, for 2 reasons. 1: Their honour won't allow them to break it, especially if the Empress has given her word. Whatever else you say about the Seanchan, they are loyal to their oaths. and 2: The next Empress will be Mat's daughter. Can you honestly see Matrim allowing his children to carry on like the Imperial family has before that, with sibling scheming against sibling? This will lead to a very strong Imperial Family with strong ties to other important leaders in the Westlands, especially Perrin and Failes kids.
@@SH-qs7ee 1. Tuon considered breaking her oath and not even joining in the Last Battle. It was only the logic that the Seanchan would probably be crushed by the Shadow afterwards if they did that that prevented her, not her oath. 2. I don't know that Mat will be able to stop it. Tuon has no issue with it, and Mat doesn't have a whole lot of effect in budging her. But, perhaps that would change. I think at least the attempted murders wouldn't continue...
@@johnbanks4761 there was supposed to be a mat tuon book series after last battle and i would guess that in the end there under influence of mat and probably hawkings conversation with tuon they would stop the slavery of channelers there is even a prophecy that like in dire times imperial family would return to midnight(thinks thats what they are called) towers to right the ancient wrong which is where adam were first used
I do think that the Aiel and the Seanchan would almost certainly come into conflict. It would probably be better for the world if the Aiel won that conflict, but it's impossible to say. It depends on whether Aviendha's vision in the pillars is simply a future that could happen or if it's the most likely future. As for the towers, conflict between them is definitely inevitable and I would totally read a series (maybe a small one) on that political conflict. As for the OF, I've always had a thing for Rand, so I would go with him.
I think with the dangers of the Seanchan, the following could happen: Someone (most likely Nyneave) finds a way to neutralize the adam. Out of necessity, the White and Black Towers would work together. Having male and female channelers would most likely be a solid counterweight to the Seanchan leashed ones. In addition, I think there is potential for more innovation in creating new weaves from channelers in the Towers, giving them an edge over the Seanchan.
Another fantastic Nae'blis video! Thanks, your video keeps me going as I near the final book. I am already halfway through book 13, can't wait to finish it. It's time to toss the dice!
....surviving dreadlords plot... minds turned to the darkness against their will, the Dark One is no more and the light has prevailed over shadow... But the Dark One lives on as the surviving dreadlords are behind the consumer advertising videos that plague all RUclips videos...
To be fair, the instability you identify in the Seanchan and the Romans is one that is endemic to almost every form of government. The fundamental issue is one of legitimacy. The stability found in modern nation states comes primarily from the Enlightenment principles of social contacts and and state constitutions, in the idea that nomos (the rule of law) prevails. This is a problem that we see in almost every other state in the WoT, such as Andor when Elayne is trying to become Queen, or the western lands who all seem to have legitimacy issues until the Seanchan conquer them.
If that queen thing doesnt work out for Elayne in the 4th age, perhaps she could create a new improved version of the red rod terangreal and make a fortune! Then retire and live happily ever after. On a serious note though, the seanchan who likes to conquer might take a shot at Shara.
Shara will be an interesting place since they are where silk and ivory come from and without a lot of infrastructure, armies or channelers around and no Peace of the Dragon hanging out they are a sitting duck if anyone thinks it through. I could see the Seanchan based in Altara along with Tear, Illian or even Mayene going Colonial with Shara and once the Sea Folk accept that saidin is clean they may start wondering down to the Isle of Madmen to see about trade.
@@daraussedai2163 Yes its ripe for the plucking since its bound to be a lot of chaos there. Although the same can be said about the Seanchan continent. Perhaps that will be the main focus to take control of the mainland again at least short to midterm. They could be occupied with that.
I think the Seanchan will try clandestinely "reqruit" from the Isle of Madmen. I also see the Sharans and the two towers trying to replenish from there also. Sharan society will change, especially with how they put male channelers out to pasture after they are done being studs. As for the two towers I can see them training their respective channelers but outside the schools male and female channelers would be free to joining either tower once they are done with their training, white for politics and black for military with a gateway connecting the two. I would really like to see adventures leading into the Land of Madmen and the first few books of a 4th age story should start there with the five major powers, Atha'an Miere and Aiel included with the three mentioned previously exploring the island and discovering what exactly went on there and the power structure that emerged during the third age.
@Nae’Blis actually done a Video in early 2020 on the Land of the Mad Men, worth going back and watching if you haven’t seen it. It will still be very dangerous to go there until all the insane men have died, remember the cleansing didn’t cure those already insane just meant that any new Channelers won’t go insane. I think you would find a Hunter-Gatherer society maybe at the level Native Australians or Native Americans were at before the coming of White people. Male Channelers would probably be seen as Demons from the nether regions of Hell, at the first sign of a man beginning to Channel they would be killed. Women may be treated the same way or may be Witch Doctors or even leaders but the groups would be constantly on the move and there would be no permanent Settlements as that could draw a Mad Man down on them. They would be a deeply superstitious people and it could take Centuries before they become more civilised.
Yes, Grendal and Mesanna are still alive but are far from dangerous. Grendal had her compulsion weave blow back on her when Avienda unravelled her gateway. Mesanna is in far worse shape being essentially a vegetable in mind due to her failed struggle in Tel'a'ronriod with Egwayne. The compulsion weave on Grendal will last as long as she lives. The state of mind in Mesanna would have to be healed by someone before she could become dangerous again.
I think you're off - at least in part - on the Dragon's Peace collapsing. Channelers live a long, long time, and people like Elayne, Nynaeve, Cadsuane(Okay, maybe not her...), etc... have at LEAST another one-hundred years ahead of them. It's entirely possible they outlive the document's restrictions.
Do not forget that the Aiel basically have a constant eye on the future. If events are not going as they like they can change decisions and events to shape the future they want.
Good ideas. I have wondered about the continuing existence of darkfriends and shadow spawn myself. Also agree that an union of the White and Black Towers in the near future is unlikely. Yes, do more!
Interesting theories. The last one Black Tower vs. White Tower has a good grounding, but there are some unmentioned caveats. 1) Individual Male channellers tend to be more powerful than their individual Female counterparts. Female channellers' used to have an advantage of being able to create a circle, but that is a lessened by the Ashamen who have bonded Aes Sedai. 2) There are other groups of channellers not aligned with either the Black nor White Tower. This includes the Seafolk, the Kin (although many are tied to the White Tower), the Aiel and freed damane. These groups may form their own power bases and could be loosely aligned with either group. 3) The Sharans had powerful channellers as well. This external threat may drive the White and Black Towers to work together for the benefit of the Westlands.
Who knows. Those pillars probably show the worst possible future of the world at the moment the person enters with the visions changing based on what they consider bad. With that knowledge, they can try and prevent the worst but that can cause other changes which could make future wise one's see that as causing the worst future which they try to prevent and so on as long as the pillars stand.
You said that the White Tower has the trust of rulers. This is far from true, but because of the oaths, they know they can be dealt with, albeit very carefully. However, the Black Tower has started to gain the support of the people as shown when they saved the children and refugees that came to help towards the end of the last battle. Tales, as is a major emphasis on Randland, has a way of growing as it spreads. This will lead to more and more common folk having inflated positive notions of the Black Tower. This will cause a rift between rulers and their people, especially in areas where the ruler is unpopular or title in name only (Murandy). Cadsuane is unlikely to let rulers think they can go their own way while she's in charge, and so the rulers are more likely to hold up to the old ways. This would turn Andor into a political battleground, as they have ancient ties with the Aes Sedai and their Queen is one of the sisters; yet is also the home of the Black Tower, whom is headed by a man that now fears anyone being above him, and would likely gain the support of all anti-Elayne factions. This could result in a political level Breaking involving all the Westlands, possibly even those under Seanchan control (as they as yet have no way of handling male channelers other than death).
It's too bad we'll never see Sanderson take his pen up and write about the 4th age. I watched an interview of his recently where he flat out stated he would not write any more Wheel of Time.
Rand in his new body has still the memories of Lous Theren Telemon, he might rediscover technologies from the times of legend. I am courious how the three girls continue their lives and which of them will follow Rand.
A long time ago with some friends we wrote a fan fic for after the books (maybe about 150-200 years after) and the Blank vs White Tower was a problem and some rebels on both sides decided to have a Gray Tower, dedicated to research and trying to revive more of the lost knowledge (instead of still trying to prove who's the better one, more influential one, dabbling heavy in politics), having more equality between men and women channeling (yup, the Reds still were suspicious about men and not trusting them... stubborn ladies, though few in number), trying to work for a greater cause, things like that :) It was fun
I think you're missing an important point about Traveling. By the end of the books, MOST channelers (men and women) were NOT strong enough to either Travel or Skim. With commentary in the books about the Red Ajah pruning out men channelers, and remarking that new women channelers are getting weaker and weaker... It'll be 4-6 generations of breeding before traveling could be something that becomes common place rather than used only for absolute necessity. Add in that while everyone "knows" that the taint is gone, that people will still react with revulsion to male channelers, that first "generation" may take a longer time to overcome the biases by itself. This is why Rand's push to develop technology is one of the most fascinating ideas of the books.
1: The mind thing on that darkfiend and Aviendha will fade, like it did with the queen. 2: The old leader of the white tower will learn to remove the collar.
I'm new to your channel, and I know you're going to be really busy in the next few weeks do to the show's release, but I would love to see more of these speculations in the future!
I wanted to comment before I started watching. I think while the Black and White Towers will remain separate entities, there will be some collaboration. Specifically, the Red Ajah will refocus to being the Ajah that deals with rogue channelers (including uncaptured Dreadlords). It will be the Red Ajah that will primarily bond Ashaman who are willing to be bond. Both willing partners will use the double bond. This will be the faction of each Tower that collaborates.
I think the red is more likely to dissolve. They lost their leader and were disgraced by Elaida's behavior, plus their ranks were primarily people who dislike/distrust men. What you describe would be a really hard pivot for that group. The Greens seem more likely to me to start bonding Ashaman, and motivated to fight the remaining dreadlords/shadowspawn
I liked the graphics and the sound effects that went with them! Nice touch you added in the editing. Very cool. May I suggest, though, reducing the volume on the sound effects a little bit more. At least to me, it was a little distracting, more than it should be. A little quieter it would be more part of the "environment" and _almost_ consciously unnoticed, but still picked up on enough to accent the graphics as it seems you intend.
The fanatical commitment to the Seanchan Empress by the Seanchan will continue. I see damane losing their leash but being forced to swear upon an oath rod like the aes sedai, only instead of swearing the three oaths they will swear allegiance the Empress, channellers, male and female, may even enter the Death Watch Guards as the most loyal of all Seanchan guards. We know that Theresa in the Shaido has an oath rod, and I suspect the Crystal Throne serves a similar function and it reappeared in the Last Battle.
Some of your ideas are quite similar to my own and some are completely different. I agree with your first, third and fifth prediction for the most. Of course the DP won't last forever, no one expects it to. But even 50 years of peace would be quite the achievement. Yes, the world will grow smaller. Not just because of the rediscovery of Travelling, but because the world is about to enter an industrial revolution from we've seen. That means all the nations which have been shrinking for the last 1000 years and which leave half the land without an owner are about to expand while the DP lasts. And yeah the Black Tower will balance the White. Just as you said the WT is bound by their traditions, while the BT will make their own. And their traditions will be far more modern and agile than the ones of the WT. And atleast until it somewhat reaches the size of the WT I doubt they'll start tearing themselves apart. I disagree with you completely on your fourth argument. Darkfriends may continue for a while as a cult, since some of them survived TG, but they will find it hard to recruit new adherents to follew essentially a dead god. And even if some Shadowspawn survived, which I do not think they did, the Blight is gone and that means it's only a matter of time before humanity wipes out the last of them. The main prediction of yours which I contest the one that the Seanchan will fall. It may not last forever, but I don't think it's going anywhere, anytime soon. Here are a couple of my thoughts on them which you may not have considered. I think you are selling the Seanchan short. While they have their faults, they are the best organised and I'd say for the common people they are the nation which balances freedom and stability best. If you can't channel life under the Seanchan is far better and safer for most in Altara, Amador and Tarabon, than it was before. And while the truth about sul'dam and damane will shake the empire, it has already devolved into a civil war courtesy of Semirhage going on a killing spree in Seandar. Tuon will have to bring back order with military might and that leaves the field open for a number of reforms which will alleviate some of the strains on the system. The Seanchan system is based on central control of the military as well as channellers, but what if they no longer need to control the channellers quite so rigidly? I think in the 4th Age channellers will lose a large part of their superiority over the common people. The reason are the four Fs: Firearms, Forkroot, Foxhead medallions and F-ing steam engines. Mat is the Prince of Ravens and he will be the one reconquering Seanchan for Tuon. And he is the military authority on firearms which will multiply the lethality common people have. Before even the weakest Aes Sedai was basically invulnerable unless taken by surprise or vastly outnumbered and surrounded. In the near future only the strongest will be able to easily shrug of bullets. Next with Forkroot you have a biological weapon which allows targeting channellers without collateral damage. Right now they only use it as tea, but why wouldn't it also work as a forkroot gas grenade? Those wouldn't just work on the battlefield, but also in an urban environment. And if they proliferate the knowledge as well as the avaiability the common people will have another weapon which will restrict channellers superiority. Then there are the Foxhead medallions. The Seanchan seem to still possess the knowledge of making ter'angreal. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make a'dam. So what if they mass produce foxhead medallions instead of a'dam? Afterall since Elayne could copy them, there's no reason they couldn't either. If their armies are equipped with firearms and medallions what do they need channellers for to keep order? Imagine an army of 50k armed with guns and protected by medallions. Sure, they'll want to have some channellers of their own loyal to them, but that's what indoctri- I mean good education is for. Lastly, the steam engine and what it represents: Technological progress. The combustion engine, electricity and so on will chip away on many of the channellers superior abilities. Sure bullet trains and aeroplanes may not be as fast as Travelling, but you can build far more planes, trains and automobiles, than you can find channellers able to Travel. The internet is far more convenient to share information than using TAR or Gateways.
Forkroot gas grenades is a genius idea. I’ve been working on my own 4th age fan fiction and many of your ideas line up with mine. I agree wholeheartedly with virtually all of this comment.👍
@@nancyrogers1228 yeah but to be fair she had only had the Talent for making ter'angreal for like a year at that point and was juggling practice with that with everything else ranging from chores and teaching college classes to running an entire country while also being pregnant. Give her time and it's probable she'd improve
One thing with the Shadowspawn is, were they originally created with the True Power or the One Power? If the former then i think they die off with the complete sealing of the DOs prison, if the latter then they survive.
I would be curious about Matt having an OF, just to see how much luck he would have with it. Also Lanfear, because Lanfear....She always seemed the sexiest of the sexiest to me.
I think Mat would have a website called 'Pink Ribbon' or something, dedicated to bdsm. You think it's going to be supernasty but instead it's really wholesome educational content about the importance of consent for both parties in roleplay etc
I like how it was portrayed to Aviendha in Rhuidean. By which I mean, we're basically shown pivot points & pitfalls from a 4th age future that isn't set in stone. 1- That's the big question, isn't it? Will the Dragon's Peace be a "Treaty of Versailles" or a "Magna Carta"? 🤷 But, grays points on a great list. Quality work Nae'blis.
Aviendha had her vision; we see some of what the Fourth Age will be. Anything else ignores the fundamental rule of the Wheel of Time, "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills".
Tuon is going to want Dragon protection for Seanchan, i.e. his blood in the royal family. My guess is that she will push the marriage of her child/heir, and Min's child.
I generally Agree with your list, however I think you’re partially wrong on the dragons peace. Personally, with Seanchan in tatters, It will remain the priority. The dragons peace will last as long as it is convenient And provide a stable base in order to put right there “homeland”. As soon as that rebellion is put down and the power base is re-solidified, I agree war me break out in the Westlands. That however could be more than 100 years; or could be one or two.
According to the Dragon's Peace, all channelers in Seanchan lands are property of Seanchan. So I seriously doubt than any Wise One that can channel will be going there.
I think for the black tower to prosper, they will have to come up with oaths to take aswell. I just dont know what they would be. The taint may be cleansed but people would fear them without assurance.
Because fear has never been used in the entire history of mankind to gain and maintain some semblance of power. Need to remember that to the average westlander, there isn't even much difference between male and female channellers anyway, both are frightening beings from stories.
Couldn't agree more, the 2nd age is the age of the union of the two halves of the One Power, therefore the 4th ago must somehow be different. Personally I imagine a sort of ideological cold war between the White and Black towers which gets increasingly hot as the age progresses, with finally the age ending in all out war between the two. However I also imagine both towers slowly over time acepting members of both sexs, the devide being essentially ideological.
The dragon's peace is not like versailles. It is almost word for word exactly how the congress of vienna worked after the napoleonic wars. 'Balance of power' which at the time meant limiting the power of france within europe (traditionally the most centralised and strongest land power in europe since Rome fell. And allowing the smaller nations blanket protection against their larger foes. All policed by another nation (in our world history by the british navy who spent the next 100 years keeping and forcing trade routes open.) In our history is collasped as the balance of power shifted, the rise of prussia the fall of the ottoman empire and the stagnation of austria. I see a similiar situation happening in WoT before a series of technological wars 100 years in the future. And breaking up all countries into much smaller countries but bound together in a much tighter bond in the end.
Well this type of theorizing does beg the question; Is there a possibility that Sanderson gets the approval from the Jordan Estate to continue the WoT? While these broad theories are indeed fascinatingly intriguing, how the individual characters move on is equally compelling.
I would go out there and say there would be an issue with the Land of Madmen. Being the only land where male channelers were not killed or gentled. The Channelers of this land would be way more powerful then channelers of other lands due to having both male and female channelers able to add to the gene pool. After the cleansing of Saidin they would now be able to focus their attentions elsewhere. My other personal speculation is popping up of people with new abilities such as the Sniffers!!
I think you make some unwarranted assumptions about the strength of the Seanchan militarily or about their ability to bring it to bare. Don't forget that they have a hard war ahead of them to reclaim their homeland, and if civil wars in our world teach us anything it will be long and bloody. In fact due to the undermining of their dogma surrounding channellers they have likely already seen the zenith of their power, which occurred after their seizure of Amadacia. The Western militaries are no doubt very weak at the end of Tarmon Gai'don, however to exploit this the Seanchan would have to break the Dragon's Peace immediately, something Mat would not entertain. They also have a lot more potential for future growth in that there is plenty of uninhabited land even within the current nations borders, let alone around them, and now also the inhabitable Blight. Also as Andor's dragons and Rand's universities have shown, they appear to be undergoing a bit of an enlightenment, meaning that technology wise they are likely to maintain an edge. Lastly their channelling power is growing, not just by the addition of the men of the Black Tower, but also the massive explosion in the number of White Tower initiates, and Egwene's pact with the Atha'an Miere and the Wise Ones.
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Agree that Seanchan will have a lot of internal problems, especially in their Westlands territories. Their new national motto will be "There is sedition in this district"...
Spoiler: At the end of the MoL though, Matt told Hawking to go talk to his wife lol. We don't see the outcome but it could be assumed that she would receive some sort of enlightenment on the Seanchan's purpose, and pave the way for the end of collaring.
I really hope that that happened, but I also sort of doubt that Hawkwing would have actually done it. The Heroes of the Horn aren't there to meddle in politics. The Seanchan Empire isn't his responsibility.
I disagree. while the Empress, may she live forever (TUON) and Matt reign i believe the dragons peace will hold. One because Tuon gave her oath and if she did break her oath Matt would take issue, and being the Prince of the Ravens and the Hero of the last battle in the eyes of the Senchan. I imagine he would be able to split the empire into a fine civil war. He would also have access to the Aiel peace keepers to swell his numbers. I believe the pending war to reclaim there homeland would keep the Senchan to busy and to exposed to risk fighting on multiple fronts. By the time they return to Rand land my quess is that the Senchan are well on thier way to becoming Rand Landized.
I'm wondering about the possibility of humanity being cut off from the one power completely. That would have to happen at some point because if we, as in you,me and the rest of humanity that is OUR reality, are living in what the books call the first age then at some point the ability to channel has to be lost. Otherwise there would be no renewal of the turning of the wheel.
Mat's influence on Tuon is probably the only thing that will keep the Seanchan in check. But since Seanchan nobility (the Blood) are all about assassination to usurp leaders at the first sign of weakness, I worry about Mat, Tuon, and their child/children. I can see them being killed by a rival who feels that the Empire has grown too soft, and then their adherence to the Dragon's Peace will go out the window. I could be mistaken, but I think in Aviendha's visions of the Aiel genocide at the hands of the Seanchan, one of her descendants reflected on the fact that the previous Seanchan Empress (presumably Tuon) was peaceful or at least reasonable, and the genocide started after she died.
i just finished the MoL book. Like, i 6pm by the time you writing this and i finished the book at 2pm I loved the ending storywise... but i think it needed the TRUE epilogue. The "Old Harry Potter send his kids to Hogwarts" ending, the "Sam gets home to Rosie and kids" ending... MIND YOU THAT IM NOT TALKING ABOUT A SOLIFIED HAPPY ENDING - I will try to talk in a cryptic way that if, by chance, a poor soul comes here that still didnt read/finished the book and reads this isnt spoiled by any means BUT if you have read it through you will understand I wanted to see the grief on the characthers, specially about the death of one of the 5 original Two-Rivers (fuck that prick who couldnt stay still FOR ONCE) and of one Wise One in particular. I wanted to see the plans for the future, specially for the 3 lovers, the "twin towers", the "third book of the lord of the rings" and two-rivers itself, both in a personal and political sense. Yes we got glimpses in the previous book (and this one) but those were made when EVERYONE was alive and EVERYONE could discuss. And a bit of the 3 lovers relation with the wanderer... AGAIN, and paraphrasing what i said above: "MIND YOU THAT IM NOT TALKING ABOUT A SOLIFIED HAPPY ENDING" I didnt need a "We will end slavery" scene and then recieve a "and therefore slavery was forever finished". But i kinda needed a "We must end slavery." "No we dont." "Let's see how it goes in the future." kinda scene. DISCLAIMER: It is NOT my intention to use this example in a way that seems to demand this scene from the Seachan, Im just using the slavery example because @Nae'Blis said this word and it was the first example that came to mind. Now... this are my thoughs about the ending. I didnt talk about plot points because i have no intention one talking about them, being them good or bad (example of a good- three warriors that went and faced the enemy general, and the three mirrored the dragon reborn journey - at least his mishappens - | example of bad - the staby staby stalker just became an afterthough in this last 3/4 books... so much potential) Well... since there is a tv show, lets watch it and see if it is worth the time. And i will pray that there is some kind of game, or mod for an existing game, about the wheel of time. I have a void that needs to be filled
Spoiler !!!! Don't read below unless you finished the series . . . . You seem to forget one big big factor is Rand/The Dragon is still alive and seemly w/ godlike power, he seems to have power that doesn't require channeling nor anyone can even detect it. In fact we don't what his power, limit to his power (if any). There are people in power knows (or suspect) he still alive (Min, Elaine, Aviendas ... Nynaeve suspect it, and Catswayne more than suspect it and she will be the Armyline) . Rand may keep his anonymity for awhile but if/when any world events like the Seanchan or the Black Tower taking over a country. Rand certainly will not let his "Dragon Peace" be broken or let the Black Tower take over Andor/Caemlyn since they're so close to it, most likely the Black Tower will somewhere else, there are still unclaimed land to the north. I don't think the Seanchan culture of enslaving channelers will not last long, now with men can channels and they can't collar them, there isn't enough black idam for them to do it. I think whatever Aviendas experienced in those glass columns are only possible future and if she (or the wise one) go through it again will see a different future.
***SPOILERS*** I don't know, I think Rand's "reward" was being freed from that responsibility and able to lead a normal life. Seanchan have the domination bands since Egeanin and Bayle turned it over so male damane coming soon. I think we may have even heard of it already happening asthere men affected by forkroot and taken away by Seanchan too.
Also I don't think that you give Andor enough credit when it comes to power politically I mean. Elayne is a First Sister to one of the most influential Wise Women, (both of whom will live to be like 300 years old assuming no oath rod). She already united Andor and Carhein in one nation, and is one of the Highest Ranked Aes Sedai. I believe at the end of the books Faile is the Queen of Saldaea and also sworn to Elayne same for Giledan (as that queen is sworn to Perin who is sworn to her). She's got nearly half of the Westlands in her pocket. She also has an Ace up her sleeve. The ability to go HEY I AM THE MOTHER OF THE DRAGON REBORN'S CHILDREN! MY LINE HOLDS HIS BLOOD! If anyone can claim 'divine right to rule' it is her bloodline after that. (Yes I know Aviendha will have like 8 of Rand's kids, that is after the Dragon Reborn has been proclaimed dead. So not really as much in terms of political power, and it means less to the Aiel.) I predict that Elayne will become the single most powerful Queen in the history of the Third or Fourth Age. And with her long lifespan, she could probably make moves that will destroy the Seanchan without them ever knowing it. (And to be fair I predict Mat is going to do some work towards destroying the Seanchan's use of Damanae. Because at the end of the day Mat is a good man.)
@@sacredbeastzenon Fair I might have been underestimating the time table but ya there is no way that Elayne isn't one of the most powerful rulers in the Westerlands during the 4th age.
The dragons peace, will hold and then not be needed. Remember the empress can channel, the secret is out, and matt is 2ic, his influence will be every present. Hail manetheron.
Ya the blight doesnt just instantly recede, relinquish and unmake itself = Shadow spawn. Every point you make is thought out well brother. To mention Rands visions of the past from his ancestry he sees the victory of the sealing of the bore and the soldier that cant find a place in society after he feels life is almost purposeless. quote [there are still dark spawn to kill]. Hey if I say to much man tell me I dont want to spoil for others through commenting, but I really get into this story
Even just the changes in culture to the two rivers not even from gates. It was naturally occurring simply from war and unrest to the west. There would be a great spread of lifestyle.
Look at the treaty of perpetual peace signed between England and France in the 16th century. It’s was broken within a few years while Henry VII and Francis I were still ruling, and they signed the treaty themselves. Treaties of peace do not hold.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Mamushi (Remix) [feat. TWICE] [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5c0_u9PsrsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think male and female channelers learning to work together more will be one of the most significant developments in the Fourth Age. The greatest accomplishments of the Age of Legend were said to have been achieved by male and female channelers working together. They can create circles of up to 72 and exponentially increase the amount of power channeled.
Galad's OnlyFans would be nothing but lectures about morality and ethics.
NAH he's a freak in the sheets ... it's the only place he can let it all hang out
I can just see it...
Galad: Keep those wimples tight, ladies!
Ladies: (sigh longingly)
Galad: All dresses are to be ankle-length!
Ladies: (sigh longingly)
Galad: Okay, now I'm going to practice sword forms with my shirt off...
Ladies: (sigh longingly and hit the tip jar in massive numbers)
@@troyterry5759 He might not be as handy with the sword any longer as he only has one arm.
Rand didn't just seal the bore. He healed it. There is no dark influence...just the human nature that caused most of the conflict in the series.
thats why Tolkien did not finish the 12 pages of " a new shadow rising"
I'd be curious to see if Hawkwing talking to Toun changes anything. Also with that line in Aviendas flash forward it says something about them coming close to an agreement before the death of their leader or something.
The first two points rely heavily on what you assume that conversation was like. I imagine it is a firm refutation of Seanchan society. 1st would be Hawkwing firmly establishing that he personally serves the Dragon, as a hero of the horn. This would permanently place the Seanchan below the authority of the Dragon's Peace. 2nd would be the refutation of Seanchan society itself as Hawkwing's behavior in life was influenced by or even under the compulsion of Ishmael. It's possible Hawkwing would condemn Seanchan as a byproduct of the will of the Shadow.
Another thing to keep in mind is Robert Jordan's basic plan to write a series about Mat and Tuon reclaiming Seanchan. Though Naeblis puts forward the cynical possible futures... one would have to assume further writing would have the story of beating those odds.
I think it is heavily implied that the dragons peace held until the Aiel attacked as they didn’t have any purpose and the treaty didn’t include the Aiel.
I agree because can you fir a minute see mat allowing women even channellers to be slaves and whipped ? He would not - he may not be ta’veren anymore but the was placed in the searchable ranks for more than one reason - basically the reason his nature is what it is was not needed up to now - but will né in the 4th age.
I guess if he addresses how he himself was coerced (compulsed?) into his later doings, including going against the Aes Sedai (though the blame there surely goes 50/50 on him an Bonwhin at least) and I guess the expedition to Seanchan itself maybe, it could spin things a lot.Though that might need some more people than only Tuon witnessing it, first and foremost Galgan I guess, with him, Tuon, some der'suldam and Mat on the same page, changes are definitely possible.
B) 100%. She will be the most explorative one, and she won't suddenly "gate in" and kill you after upsetting her for no reason.
I think some Aes Sedai or Wise One Dreamer will realize they can reverse the polarity of the sul-dam/damane leash as they sleep and totally throw Seanchan into chaos.
The drilling of the bore happened because the AS then thought they had hit their limit at what saidar and saidin can do separately. With the new talents discovered at the end of the 3rd age (bonding, notably between androl and pevara) I think we will see the 2 towers unite to exceed what was done in the AoL.
Yes I would like a storyline to Androl and Pevara!
Male and female AS worked together in the age of legends
@@roberttonner354 The Bonding weave was not known during the age of legends. Double bonding confers interesting abilities.
@@TomBlammo you don't need to be bonded to work together
@@roberttonner354 what was the point of this reply?
I'm getting ready to start working on some 4th age fanfiction and this is exactly what I've been looking for as I prep.
I have come up with one Fan Fiction idea, set 17 years after the final battle. A Bridge has been built across the Taren at Taren Ferry and all the major characters that still live have gathered for a grand opening to be done by Queen Elayne. Introduces some of the next Generation, gives some info on what everyone has been up to.
The Bridge has been built by a combination of using the one Power and Ogier Stonemasons.
I really think the most important figure at the start of the 4th Age is Tuon and what her next decision is. She has the most powerful Military left in the World and she has the finest General in the world. Realistically she has the Military to seize the entire Westlands straight away, it will be years before the other Nations are able to muster the strength to match her.
But she also has the problem of the collapse into Civil War of the Seanchan Empire at home and we don’t know enough of the situation back in Seanchan to know if she could realistically return and take back Seandar. Is there dozens of factions fighting over the Empire or has one leader emerged and is consolidating their position. Either way she could find herself mired in a decades long Civil War or be defeated and killed upon return.
Will she abide by the Dragons Peace, believing that the Dragon is dead. Her best chance of seizing the Westlands is to move immediately. Doubt Mat would support any such move but if he did and took control of the Armies, it would be a complete rout.
I for one would like to see more theories about the 4th age
I built a whole Dungeons and Dragons campaign based in it.
Me too! I was so hoping AMOL would show us a little more but this way we can speculate to our heart's content!
I kinda hope the show gives a few hints about it
Agreed. A fertile ground for future thought experiments.
My gaming group are all Wheel of Time junkies. We are currently doing the trolloc wars with them as shadow spawn. Every campaign has been a turning of the wheel in a different age.
1) Dragon's Peace will hold as long as Mat and Fortuona are married. There is at least one fanfic describing how they will retake Seanchan.
2) The Second Age seems to have been technologically advanced, but most of that technology was combined with the One Power. The Fourth Age will rebuild the technology of the First Age, alongside the One Power but not dependent on it.
3) The only ones who remember how male and female Aes Sedai worked together in the Age of Legends are Rand, who has gone off without recording Less Therin's memories, and Moghedien, now a _damane._ (Mesaana and Hesalam are both useless.) So the Black and White Towers will be rivals and sometimes allies, but will not combine. The Black Tower may choose to limit their channeling in some way, and the Red Ajah will take the position of enforcement.
Now my fanfic - Rand will be like Hari Seldon, popping up every decade or so, making adjustments as needed. It will be subtle _Daes Daemar,_ never through coercion; he knows his place.
Rand not only "knows his place", he doesn't WANT to rule.
I agree with points 2-4, but like many on here I think the Dragons Peace will hold. One of the key reasons why the Pattern spun out Perrin was to provide the insight on the Aiel's new role as peace keepers. This would be pointless if they weren't capable of doing so. Also, with the Dark One locked away again there is no longer the DIRECT influence that he provided on humankind. Robert Jordan borrowed a lot from Biblical literature and there is a parallel here with the devil being locked away for a thousand years in Revelation, when it is stated that he will no longer lead the nations astray. There will still be the Shadow, but it will arise from people's hearts and not an exterior force. And let's not forget that in the Age of Legends people could not even conceive of battle, so it is possible in the books for society to reach a stage beyond conflict. Also, Mat is one of the most powerful figures in the Empire and his influence will be key. The Pattern didn't just spin out Rand, Perrin and Mat to win the last Battle, but to support a new Age of unity and balance. I agree that it will not be like the Age of Legends, but that doesn't mean that everything has to fall into ruin again. People will likely be inspired by the Last Battle and the peace loving leaders it has generated.
Exploring the 4th Age is definitely a good idea for a series. I wonder if Mr Jordan left any notes on what he had in mind for it? Though he never intended to write about it, I would be very surprised if he hadn't pictured the end goal. And another reason why I don't think the 4th Age will be like the 2nd Age is that the Age of Legends followed our age, which developed technology first before discovering the One Power, whereas in the 4th Age the One Power has been developed before technology. It would be interesting to theorise how this might change the path of development. However I think the biggest surprises will stem from the fact that some things previously not known or imagined to be possible in the Age of Legends have been discovered by some of the key characters, especially bonding which was never known in the Age of Legends. How Ashaman and Aes Sedai work together in this new fashion will drive real change in ways that can surely only bring the White and Black Towers together. I think with Rand's body swap and the sharing of thoughts and emotions in Bonding, there will be real questions asked and developments made in the nature of self and being.
Jordan discussed doing a series of "outrigger novels" that were going to be about Mat and Tuon in Seanchan cleaning up the mess Semirhage created, but apparently he left very little beyond a sentence or two on the idea in his notes
Love it! As a major WOT fan I’ve thought about this quite a bit. I agree about the Dragon’s Peace. Matt’s relationship with Tuon is one thing that you didn’t bring up, but when I think about that relationship... Tuon is gonna do what she wants to do regardless; you would just hope Matt’s sincerity would rub off on her. Also, Im doubtful that Rand-in the body of “Moridin”- would really be able to retire and just stand by as corruption, evil and political maneuvering continue.
Yeah but he has lost his power...
@@hiltrud2001, maybe not. Remember when he threatened Cadsuane that he could stop her heart just by wanting to? Then, when he lights his pipe at the end, that's apparently just by him wanting to do so.
Disagree that Seanchan are the most powerful at the end of the books, I believe Andor with it's Dragons (Cannons) would be a distinct game changer, additionally having access to both Tar Valon and the Black tower along with the most powerful sa'angreal copied by Elayne gives Andor the edge.
Only fans, Berelain for sure. Everyone else has too many hangups.
The absolute biggest weakness of the Seanchen is their inability to link. Especially when male ard females are in a circle against them. I think this weakness is too great for the overwhelming numbers to overcome. Also, they are way behind in angreal and sa'angreal. Other then the a'dam there isn't much mention of angreal or sa'angreal being used by them. I'm guessing because using two together can have catastrophic effects. Combining Avienda's ability to read angreal/sa'angreal with Elyane's ability to make them and the possibilities are near endless. The Seanchen will know these weaknesses and I don't think they will be too eager to jump into open conflict with the other nations. The White Tower, the Black Tower, and the Wise Ones combined will be plenty of deterrent I think.
I think there is at least a 50% (if not more) chance of the Dragon's peace holding for the 100 years. The Wise One's are clever. Without the blood fued, that was averted by including them in the peace, they will need to find other ways of getting their people back from the seanchen without breaking the peace. I think their ability to dream is the key in this regard.
The Shara are the real wild card. Their entire political structure was turned upside-down leading up to the Last Battle and then again after. They will be in chaos, and with a power vacuum. If war breaks out with Shara, then that will help solidify the Dragon's Peace.
I don't think the seachan will be a problem. I feel like tuon got put in her place a little between rand and Matt with hawkwing. The Aiel said they won't fight them and I think they would hold to the agreement made with egwyene. I think they would spend their time retaking seanchan and leaving a status quo in the Westland. Just what I think lol great stuff and keep them coming.
I disagree about the Dragon's peace - you see when Aviendha goes to the columns the second tine, everyone seems to be holding to the peace, and it is only the Aiel (who were not bound to it) that broke the peace. That being absent there is no reason to assume that this part of the vision (the peace) would be wrong.
The same is true for #2. Also the argument about empires not being stable doesn't fit with the fact that they were an empire in their homeland for 1000 years.
Actually, if I remember the history of it correctly, the Seachan had only just finished conquering their lands a hundred or so years prior to the books. Without room to expand anymore, they would have collapsed. But I agree about the peace. And with the black and white towers, I would see it having one tower for training women and one tower for training men and a third for trained aes sedai given how many more there are going to be.
I don't necessarily agree, I think that the Dragon's Peace will last maybe 50 years at most. But the Seanchan will do something that will cause a breaking of the treaty. As we saw in Aviendha's vision the reason the Aiel went to war with them was because they still held Wise Women captive as Damanae. And it looks like they can make Domination Bands to force men to be leashed as well.
The Seanchan are not stable, they have fought many rebellions many of the Seanchan Povs admit that there are plenty of them and have fought in some of them. That's why they were still sharp and more prepared for war then most of the Westland nations. The spread of ideas is what will destroy them. Their reason for holding those who can channel is specifically because they are afraid they'd rule the world, and yet in Randland they don't. It will break them soon.
@XxGrandMagexX it was only signed for 100 years anyways
This is great Nae'Blis! This topic is something I've been wondering about for a while. Your deep dives were wonderfully insightful and helped me better understand my first read through.
I do agree about number 2. However, Seanchan's leadership is not intact. I could be wrong, but I remember one of the Forsaken talking about the capital being in flames, and the court of the Nine Moons being slaughtered. This suggests to me that only Tuon is left. Previously stable vassal states are probably already rising up in the empire.
about number 4: I agree to some extent, but eventually he will be completely forgotten. Given the circular nature of time in WoT memory of him has to be totally gone by the time the Age of Legends rolls around again. The bore was sealed in that age, yes, but imperfectly, as "naming the dark one" attracted his attention. I would presume this is no longer the case with the new seal, else how would anyone ever forget about it?
I think that the black tower and white tower would unite and form what Emarin called the Silver Tower. My reasoning is that Moiraine on supporting Rand's peace treaty said the pattern demands balance. The last time the fight against the dark one broke the world and this time it'd unite it. Incidentally it separated male from female aes sedai. The pattern would see them reunited. In any case they'd already started bonding each other.
and there will also be male Aiel and Sea Folk popping up in need of some kind of jobs too plus the remaining Kin who I think will all end up banding together to avoid getting collared by Seanchan. I can totally see the expansion of the Kin's "underground railroad" to get channelers out of Seanchan held territory too which already includes man-damane (manmane?)
I really liked you saying the Shonchien are collapsing and explaining why. after Avienda's vision, I was terrified of the thought of them taking control... but you make it sound much more reasonable like that, and it's very interesting because most people tend to think of the Shonchien as unbeatable, but actually you make much sense begging to differ.
I feel like we already got an OF for Berelain in the books...
I feel like Berelain would be the kind of woman to have an OF, but not do nudity on it.
After she met Galad, it's not OnlyFans ... it's OnlyFanatics!
One of the things about the Wheel of Time is that the world changes, each Age is very different to the last and i do believe that by the end of the 4th Age it will look very different then at the start.
One plausible hypothesis i have come up with is that the Black Tower will eventually seize total power in the world, overthrowing the White Tower and absorbing all Channelers into it and rules for several thousand years. The Age ends when Ishamael reborn seizes power, becoming Emperor. The Dragon is reborn and they eventually fight off in the ruins of Tar Valon, this sets of a very powerful, previously unknown Sa Angreal, destroying the entire Island and Dragonmount explodes into a massive Volcanic event, setting off a extinction level event world wide. The 5th Age begins with the survivors virtually back to the Stone Age.
And Bela will still be there when the 5th Age begins, I presume.
@@jordanprado5806 Bela should be a hero of the Horn 🎷🐴
I like this fic
It makes me sad to think about the Dragon’s Peace falling apart. That was Rand’s biggest accomplishment, at least in his mind. But, I think you’re probably right.
Particularly because the Seanchan had so few losses in the Last Battle compared to the other groups, such as the Aes Sedai and Aiel.
I think the Seanchan are Militarily strong enough take the entire Westlands straight after the final battle, I seriously doubt that the Nations are in any condition to stop them. The BT can’t match the number of Damane they have and the AS can’t directly fight them and are severely weakened anyway.
I think they will hold the Dragon Peace, for 2 reasons.
1: Their honour won't allow them to break it, especially if the Empress has given her word. Whatever else you say about the Seanchan, they are loyal to their oaths.
and 2: The next Empress will be Mat's daughter. Can you honestly see Matrim allowing his children to carry on like the Imperial family has before that, with sibling scheming against sibling? This will lead to a very strong Imperial Family with strong ties to other important leaders in the Westlands, especially Perrin and Failes kids.
@@SH-qs7ee 1. Tuon considered breaking her oath and not even joining in the Last Battle. It was only the logic that the Seanchan would probably be crushed by the Shadow afterwards if they did that that prevented her, not her oath.
2. I don't know that Mat will be able to stop it. Tuon has no issue with it, and Mat doesn't have a whole lot of effect in budging her. But, perhaps that would change. I think at least the attempted murders wouldn't continue...
and their dedication to slavery and using humans as instruments and property which is the opposite of everyone else
@@johnbanks4761 there was supposed to be a mat tuon book series after last battle and i would guess that in the end there under influence of mat and probably hawkings conversation with tuon they would stop the slavery of channelers there is even a prophecy that like in dire times imperial family would return to midnight(thinks thats what they are called) towers to right the ancient wrong which is where adam were first used
I do think that the Aiel and the Seanchan would almost certainly come into conflict. It would probably be better for the world if the Aiel won that conflict, but it's impossible to say. It depends on whether Aviendha's vision in the pillars is simply a future that could happen or if it's the most likely future. As for the towers, conflict between them is definitely inevitable and I would totally read a series (maybe a small one) on that political conflict.
As for the OF, I've always had a thing for Rand, so I would go with him.
I think with the dangers of the Seanchan, the following could happen:
Someone (most likely Nyneave) finds a way to neutralize the adam.
Out of necessity, the White and Black Towers would work together. Having male and female channelers would most likely be a solid counterweight to the Seanchan leashed ones.
In addition, I think there is potential for more innovation in creating new weaves from channelers in the Towers, giving them an edge over the Seanchan.
Intriguing! I would like more 4th Age theories!
Another fantastic Nae'blis video! Thanks, your video keeps me going as I near the final book. I am already halfway through book 13, can't wait to finish it.
It's time to toss the dice!
Loved this video! 100% agree with all 5 points, especially the White vs. Black tower - I feel that’s inevitable.
....surviving dreadlords plot...
minds turned to the darkness against their will, the Dark One is no more and the light has prevailed over shadow...
But the Dark One lives on as the surviving dreadlords are behind the consumer advertising videos that plague all RUclips videos...
I swear you're reading my mind. I was just trying to think up some 4th age conflicts for a D&D campaign lol
Enjoyed this video. These things make sense. Would love to see a video about where Rand might end up, and if he will resurface, on the world stage.
To be fair, the instability you identify in the Seanchan and the Romans is one that is endemic to almost every form of government. The fundamental issue is one of legitimacy. The stability found in modern nation states comes primarily from the Enlightenment principles of social contacts and and state constitutions, in the idea that nomos (the rule of law) prevails.
This is a problem that we see in almost every other state in the WoT, such as Andor when Elayne is trying to become Queen, or the western lands who all seem to have legitimacy issues until the Seanchan conquer them.
I want to know Mat's story in the 4th age that would be AWESOME!
If that queen thing doesnt work out for Elayne in the 4th age, perhaps she could create a new improved version of the red rod terangreal and make a fortune! Then retire and live happily ever after. On a serious note though, the seanchan who likes to conquer might take a shot at Shara.
Shara will be an interesting place since they are where silk and ivory come from and without a lot of infrastructure, armies or channelers around and no Peace of the Dragon hanging out they are a sitting duck if anyone thinks it through. I could see the Seanchan based in Altara along with Tear, Illian or even Mayene going Colonial with Shara and once the Sea Folk accept that saidin is clean they may start wondering down to the Isle of Madmen to see about trade.
@@daraussedai2163 Yes its ripe for the plucking since its bound to be a lot of chaos there. Although the same can be said about the Seanchan continent. Perhaps that will be the main focus to take control of the mainland again at least short to midterm. They could be occupied with that.
@@daraussedai2163 didnt everybody kill themselves on the Island of madmen?
@@yeahbee8237 It was Tremalking after the female Choedan Kal statue was destroyed after cleaning saidin
Do more of these. Really interested in ideas about the 4th Age. Some of the comments already posted are really good too.
I think the Seanchan will try clandestinely "reqruit" from the Isle of Madmen. I also see the Sharans and the two towers trying to replenish from there also. Sharan society will change, especially with how they put male channelers out to pasture after they are done being studs. As for the two towers I can see them training their respective channelers but outside the schools male and female channelers would be free to joining either tower once they are done with their training, white for politics and black for military with a gateway connecting the two.
I would really like to see adventures leading into the Land of Madmen and the first few books of a 4th age story should start there with the five major powers, Atha'an Miere and Aiel included with the three mentioned previously exploring the island and discovering what exactly went on there and the power structure that emerged during the third age.
@Nae’Blis actually done a Video in early 2020 on the Land of the Mad Men, worth going back and watching if you haven’t seen it.
It will still be very dangerous to go there until all the insane men have died, remember the cleansing didn’t cure those already insane just meant that any new Channelers won’t go insane. I think you would find a Hunter-Gatherer society maybe at the level Native Australians or Native Americans were at before the coming of White people. Male Channelers would probably be seen as Demons from the nether regions of Hell, at the first sign of a man beginning to Channel they would be killed. Women may be treated the same way or may be Witch Doctors or even leaders but the groups would be constantly on the move and there would be no permanent Settlements as that could draw a Mad Man down on them. They would be a deeply superstitious people and it could take Centuries before they become more civilised.
You left out guns. There is no way that Matt's cannons are not going to lead to handguns.
I would like to discuss the fate of the "kin" under the new Amyrlin, as well as the tinkers!
Yes, Grendal and Mesanna are still alive but are far from dangerous. Grendal had her compulsion weave blow back on her when Avienda unravelled her gateway. Mesanna is in far worse shape being essentially a vegetable in mind due to her failed struggle in Tel'a'ronriod with Egwayne. The compulsion weave on Grendal will last as long as she lives. The state of mind in Mesanna would have to be healed by someone before she could become dangerous again.
I think you're off - at least in part - on the Dragon's Peace collapsing. Channelers live a long, long time, and people like Elayne, Nynaeve, Cadsuane(Okay, maybe not her...), etc... have at LEAST another one-hundred years ahead of them. It's entirely possible they outlive the document's restrictions.
Do not forget that the Aiel basically have a constant eye on the future. If events are not going as they like they can change decisions and events to shape the future they want.
Good ideas. I have wondered about the continuing existence of darkfriends and shadow spawn myself. Also agree that an union of the White and Black Towers in the near future is unlikely.
Yes, do more!
Interesting theories. The last one Black Tower vs. White Tower has a good grounding, but there are some unmentioned caveats.
1) Individual Male channellers tend to be more powerful than their individual Female counterparts. Female channellers' used to have an advantage of being able to create a circle, but that is a lessened by the Ashamen who have bonded Aes Sedai.
2) There are other groups of channellers not aligned with either the Black nor White Tower. This includes the Seafolk, the Kin (although many are tied to the White Tower), the Aiel and freed damane. These groups may form their own power bases and could be loosely aligned with either group.
3) The Sharans had powerful channellers as well. This external threat may drive the White and Black Towers to work together for the benefit of the Westlands.
I thought it was pretty obvious the Dragon's Peace would *hold* this time as the glass column visions showed.
That said, deffo Berelain or Elayne lol.
Who knows. Those pillars probably show the worst possible future of the world at the moment the person enters with the visions changing based on what they consider bad. With that knowledge, they can try and prevent the worst but that can cause other changes which could make future wise one's see that as causing the worst future which they try to prevent and so on as long as the pillars stand.
You said that the White Tower has the trust of rulers. This is far from true, but because of the oaths, they know they can be dealt with, albeit very carefully.
However, the Black Tower has started to gain the support of the people as shown when they saved the children and refugees that came to help towards the end of the last battle. Tales, as is a major emphasis on Randland, has a way of growing as it spreads. This will lead to more and more common folk having inflated positive notions of the Black Tower.
This will cause a rift between rulers and their people, especially in areas where the ruler is unpopular or title in name only (Murandy). Cadsuane is unlikely to let rulers think they can go their own way while she's in charge, and so the rulers are more likely to hold up to the old ways. This would turn Andor into a political battleground, as they have ancient ties with the Aes Sedai and their Queen is one of the sisters; yet is also the home of the Black Tower, whom is headed by a man that now fears anyone being above him, and would likely gain the support of all anti-Elayne factions. This could result in a political level Breaking involving all the Westlands, possibly even those under Seanchan control (as they as yet have no way of handling male channelers other than death).
It's too bad we'll never see Sanderson take his pen up and write about the 4th age. I watched an interview of his recently where he flat out stated he would not write any more Wheel of Time.
I'll start reading AMOL after my exams at the end of January. I just clicked on this video to put it im my watch later list. Cya in summer 😁
Rand in his new body has still the memories of Lous Theren Telemon, he might rediscover technologies from the times of legend. I am courious how the three girls continue their lives and which of them will follow Rand.
I think it's worth mentioning that the isle of madmen...won't be mad? Within a couple of generations, you'll have a massive cultural shift there.
A long time ago with some friends we wrote a fan fic for after the books (maybe about 150-200 years after) and the Blank vs White Tower was a problem and some rebels on both sides decided to have a Gray Tower, dedicated to research and trying to revive more of the lost knowledge (instead of still trying to prove who's the better one, more influential one, dabbling heavy in politics), having more equality between men and women channeling (yup, the Reds still were suspicious about men and not trusting them... stubborn ladies, though few in number), trying to work for a greater cause, things like that :) It was fun
I think you're missing an important point about Traveling. By the end of the books, MOST channelers (men and women) were NOT strong enough to either Travel or Skim. With commentary in the books about the Red Ajah pruning out men channelers, and remarking that new women channelers are getting weaker and weaker... It'll be 4-6 generations of breeding before traveling could be something that becomes common place rather than used only for absolute necessity. Add in that while everyone "knows" that the taint is gone, that people will still react with revulsion to male channelers, that first "generation" may take a longer time to overcome the biases by itself. This is why Rand's push to develop technology is one of the most fascinating ideas of the books.
1: The mind thing on that darkfiend and Aviendha will fade, like it did with the queen. 2: The old leader of the white tower will learn to remove the collar.
I'm new to your channel, and I know you're going to be really busy in the next few weeks do to the show's release, but I would love to see more of these speculations in the future!
For sure, I’ll be back at all the lore stuff in January
I wanted to comment before I started watching. I think while the Black and White Towers will remain separate entities, there will be some collaboration. Specifically, the Red Ajah will refocus to being the Ajah that deals with rogue channelers (including uncaptured Dreadlords). It will be the Red Ajah that will primarily bond Ashaman who are willing to be bond. Both willing partners will use the double bond. This will be the faction of each Tower that collaborates.
I think the red is more likely to dissolve. They lost their leader and were disgraced by Elaida's behavior, plus their ranks were primarily people who dislike/distrust men. What you describe would be a really hard pivot for that group. The Greens seem more likely to me to start bonding Ashaman, and motivated to fight the remaining dreadlords/shadowspawn
I liked the graphics and the sound effects that went with them! Nice touch you added in the editing. Very cool. May I suggest, though, reducing the volume on the sound effects a little bit more. At least to me, it was a little distracting, more than it should be. A little quieter it would be more part of the "environment" and _almost_ consciously unnoticed, but still picked up on enough to accent the graphics as it seems you intend.
The fanatical commitment to the Seanchan Empress by the Seanchan will continue. I see damane losing their leash but being forced to swear upon an oath rod like the aes sedai, only instead of swearing the three oaths they will swear allegiance the Empress, channellers, male and female, may even enter the Death Watch Guards as the most loyal of all Seanchan guards. We know that Theresa in the Shaido has an oath rod, and I suspect the Crystal Throne serves a similar function and it reappeared in the Last Battle.
Loving watching your breakdowns. 😊
Some of your ideas are quite similar to my own and some are completely different. I agree with your first, third and fifth prediction for the most. Of course the DP won't last forever, no one expects it to. But even 50 years of peace would be quite the achievement. Yes, the world will grow smaller. Not just because of the rediscovery of Travelling, but because the world is about to enter an industrial revolution from we've seen. That means all the nations which have been shrinking for the last 1000 years and which leave half the land without an owner are about to expand while the DP lasts. And yeah the Black Tower will balance the White. Just as you said the WT is bound by their traditions, while the BT will make their own. And their traditions will be far more modern and agile than the ones of the WT. And atleast until it somewhat reaches the size of the WT I doubt they'll start tearing themselves apart. I disagree with you completely on your fourth argument. Darkfriends may continue for a while as a cult, since some of them survived TG, but they will find it hard to recruit new adherents to follew essentially a dead god. And even if some Shadowspawn survived, which I do not think they did, the Blight is gone and that means it's only a matter of time before humanity wipes out the last of them. The main prediction of yours which I contest the one that the Seanchan will fall. It may not last forever, but I don't think it's going anywhere, anytime soon. Here are a couple of my thoughts on them which you may not have considered.
I think you are selling the Seanchan short. While they have their faults, they are the best organised and I'd say for the common people they are the nation which balances freedom and stability best. If you can't channel life under the Seanchan is far better and safer for most in Altara, Amador and Tarabon, than it was before.
And while the truth about sul'dam and damane will shake the empire, it has already devolved into a civil war courtesy of Semirhage going on a killing spree in Seandar. Tuon will have to bring back order with military might and that leaves the field open for a number of reforms which will alleviate some of the strains on the system. The Seanchan system is based on central control of the military as well as channellers, but what if they no longer need to control the channellers quite so rigidly?
I think in the 4th Age channellers will lose a large part of their superiority over the common people. The reason are the four Fs: Firearms, Forkroot, Foxhead medallions and F-ing steam engines. Mat is the Prince of Ravens and he will be the one reconquering Seanchan for Tuon. And he is the military authority on firearms which will multiply the lethality common people have. Before even the weakest Aes Sedai was basically invulnerable unless taken by surprise or vastly outnumbered and surrounded. In the near future only the strongest will be able to easily shrug of bullets.
Next with Forkroot you have a biological weapon which allows targeting channellers without collateral damage. Right now they only use it as tea, but why wouldn't it also work as a forkroot gas grenade? Those wouldn't just work on the battlefield, but also in an urban environment. And if they proliferate the knowledge as well as the avaiability the common people will have another weapon which will restrict channellers superiority.
Then there are the Foxhead medallions. The Seanchan seem to still possess the knowledge of making ter'angreal. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to make a'dam. So what if they mass produce foxhead medallions instead of a'dam? Afterall since Elayne could copy them, there's no reason they couldn't either. If their armies are equipped with firearms and medallions what do they need channellers for to keep order? Imagine an army of 50k armed with guns and protected by medallions. Sure, they'll want to have some channellers of their own loyal to them, but that's what indoctri- I mean good education is for.
Lastly, the steam engine and what it represents: Technological progress. The combustion engine, electricity and so on will chip away on many of the channellers superior abilities. Sure bullet trains and aeroplanes may not be as fast as Travelling, but you can build far more planes, trains and automobiles, than you can find channellers able to Travel. The internet is far more convenient to share information than using TAR or Gateways.
Forkroot gas grenades is a genius idea.
I’ve been working on my own 4th age fan fiction and many of your ideas line up with mine. I agree wholeheartedly with virtually all of this comment.👍
Even Elayne couldn't copy the foxhead medallion perfectly, or the Dreamer ring, either.
@@nancyrogers1228 yeah but to be fair she had only had the Talent for making ter'angreal for like a year at that point and was juggling practice with that with everything else ranging from chores and teaching college classes to running an entire country while also being pregnant. Give her time and it's probable she'd improve
Love your channel my friend. Always so much to think about.
Pretty impressive insight on the 4th Age. Very much enjoy your speculations
One thing with the Shadowspawn is, were they originally created with the True Power or the One Power? If the former then i think they die off with the complete sealing of the DOs prison, if the latter then they survive.
I would be curious about Matt having an OF, just to see how much luck he would have with it. Also Lanfear, because Lanfear....She always seemed the sexiest of the sexiest to me.
I think Mat would have a website called 'Pink Ribbon' or something, dedicated to bdsm. You think it's going to be supernasty but instead it's really wholesome educational content about the importance of consent for both parties in roleplay etc
I like how it was portrayed to Aviendha in Rhuidean. By which I mean, we're basically shown pivot points & pitfalls from a 4th age future that isn't set in stone.
1- That's the big question, isn't it? Will the Dragon's Peace be a "Treaty of Versailles" or a "Magna Carta"? 🤷
But, grays points on a great list. Quality work Nae'blis.
Aviendha had her vision; we see some of what the Fourth Age will be. Anything else ignores the fundamental rule of the Wheel of Time, "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills".
There is one total certainty for the 4th Age.
It will end and the 5th Age will begin
I also love 4th Age and Age of Legends talk.
Tuon is going to want Dragon protection for Seanchan, i.e. his blood in the royal family. My guess is that she will push the marriage of her child/heir, and Min's child.
I generally Agree with your list, however I think you’re partially wrong on the dragons peace.
Personally, with Seanchan in tatters,
It will remain the priority. The dragons peace will last as long as it is convenient And provide a stable base in order to put right there “homeland”.
As soon as that rebellion is put down and the power base is re-solidified, I agree war me break out in the Westlands. That however could be more than 100 years; or could be one or two.
So That Future Aviendha Saw Will Happen No Matter What?
According to the Dragon's Peace, all channelers in Seanchan lands are property of Seanchan. So I seriously doubt than any Wise One that can channel will be going there.
I think for the black tower to prosper, they will have to come up with oaths to take aswell. I just dont know what they would be. The taint may be cleansed but people would fear them without assurance.
Because fear has never been used in the entire history of mankind to gain and maintain some semblance of power. Need to remember that to the average westlander, there isn't even much difference between male and female channellers anyway, both are frightening beings from stories.
This is why you had to host the not jeopardy video it would not have been competitive at all had you been a participant.
Couldn't agree more, the 2nd age is the age of the union of the two halves of the One Power, therefore the 4th ago must somehow be different. Personally I imagine a sort of ideological cold war between the White and Black towers which gets increasingly hot as the age progresses, with finally the age ending in all out war between the two. However I also imagine both towers slowly over time acepting members of both sexs, the devide being essentially ideological.
The dragon's peace is not like versailles.
It is almost word for word exactly how the congress of vienna worked after the napoleonic wars.
'Balance of power' which at the time meant limiting the power of france within europe (traditionally the most centralised and strongest land power in europe since Rome fell. And allowing the smaller nations blanket protection against their larger foes.
All policed by another nation (in our world history by the british navy who spent the next 100 years keeping and forcing trade routes open.)
In our history is collasped as the balance of power shifted, the rise of prussia the fall of the ottoman empire and the stagnation of austria.
I see a similiar situation happening in WoT before a series of technological wars 100 years in the future. And breaking up all countries into much smaller countries but bound together in a much tighter bond in the end.
Well this type of theorizing does beg the question; Is there a possibility that Sanderson gets the approval from the Jordan Estate to continue the WoT? While these broad theories are indeed fascinatingly intriguing, how the individual characters move on is equally compelling.
He has said that he doesn’t want to continue writing but did leave the possibility open that others might be asked to
I would go out there and say there would be an issue with the Land of Madmen. Being the only land where male channelers were not killed or gentled. The Channelers of this land would be way more powerful then channelers of other lands due to having both male and female channelers able to add to the gene pool.
After the cleansing of Saidin they would now be able to focus their attentions elsewhere.
My other personal speculation is popping up of people with new abilities such as the Sniffers!!
I think you make some unwarranted assumptions about the strength of the Seanchan militarily or about their ability to bring it to bare. Don't forget that they have a hard war ahead of them to reclaim their homeland, and if civil wars in our world teach us anything it will be long and bloody. In fact due to the undermining of their dogma surrounding channellers they have likely already seen the zenith of their power, which occurred after their seizure of Amadacia.
The Western militaries are no doubt very weak at the end of Tarmon Gai'don, however to exploit this the Seanchan would have to break the Dragon's Peace immediately, something Mat would not entertain. They also have a lot more potential for future growth in that there is plenty of uninhabited land even within the current nations borders, let alone around them, and now also the inhabitable Blight. Also as Andor's dragons and Rand's universities have shown, they appear to be undergoing a bit of an enlightenment, meaning that technology wise they are likely to maintain an edge. Lastly their channelling power is growing, not just by the addition of the men of the Black Tower, but also the massive explosion in the number of White Tower initiates, and Egwene's pact with the Atha'an Miere and the Wise Ones.
Have u ever thought what would happen if moghedien gets freed by some darkfriend... a dangerous thought to be sure but an interseting one as well
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Agree that Seanchan will have a lot of internal problems, especially in their Westlands territories. Their new national motto will be "There is sedition in this district"...
Spoiler:
At the end of the MoL though, Matt told Hawking to go talk to his wife lol. We don't see the outcome but it could be assumed that she would receive some sort of enlightenment on the Seanchan's purpose, and pave the way for the end of collaring.
Whoa! I don’t remember this at all, but would LOVE to have witnessed that conversation!
Good thinking!
I really hope that that happened, but I also sort of doubt that Hawkwing would have actually done it. The Heroes of the Horn aren't there to meddle in politics. The Seanchan Empire isn't his responsibility.
In my head when someone says "the Dragon's peace" I always think "Pax Draconis"
Updated best moments from the wheel of time series?! TOP 50! Including that Jain Farstrider died well! Lol. So many good moments.
I disagree. while the Empress, may she live forever (TUON) and Matt reign i believe the dragons peace will hold. One because Tuon gave her oath and if she did break her oath Matt would take issue, and being the Prince of the Ravens and the Hero of the last battle in the eyes of the Senchan. I imagine he would be able to split the empire into a fine civil war. He would also have access to the Aiel peace keepers to swell his numbers. I believe the pending war to reclaim there homeland would keep the Senchan to busy and to exposed to risk fighting on multiple fronts. By the time they return to Rand land my quess is that the Senchan are well on thier way to becoming Rand Landized.
Also, Matt is not a big fan of all the slavery. I can imagine him putting a stop to it no matter what the culture says.
I'm wondering about the possibility of humanity being cut off from the one power completely. That would have to happen at some point because if we, as in you,me and the rest of humanity that is OUR reality, are living in what the books call the first age then at some point the ability to channel has to be lost. Otherwise there would be no renewal of the turning of the wheel.
Mat's influence on Tuon is probably the only thing that will keep the Seanchan in check. But since Seanchan nobility (the Blood) are all about assassination to usurp leaders at the first sign of weakness, I worry about Mat, Tuon, and their child/children. I can see them being killed by a rival who feels that the Empire has grown too soft, and then their adherence to the Dragon's Peace will go out the window. I could be mistaken, but I think in Aviendha's visions of the Aiel genocide at the hands of the Seanchan, one of her descendants reflected on the fact that the previous Seanchan Empress (presumably Tuon) was peaceful or at least reasonable, and the genocide started after she died.
Either B or E. Mat goes on some pretty good rants.
I have just finished the series and i don't remember an expiration date for the treaty? It wasn't signed for 100 years, it's a permanent treaty.
Elayne takes back all her mothers even the two rivers.
i just finished the MoL book. Like, i 6pm by the time you writing this and i finished the book at 2pm
I loved the ending storywise... but i think it needed the TRUE epilogue. The "Old Harry Potter send his kids to Hogwarts" ending, the "Sam gets home to Rosie and kids" ending...
MIND YOU THAT IM NOT TALKING ABOUT A SOLIFIED HAPPY ENDING
- I will try to talk in a cryptic way that if, by chance, a poor soul comes here that still didnt read/finished the book and reads this isnt spoiled by any means BUT if you have read it through you will understand
I wanted to see the grief on the characthers, specially about the death of one of the 5 original Two-Rivers (fuck that prick who couldnt stay still FOR ONCE) and of one Wise One in particular. I wanted to see the plans for the future, specially for the 3 lovers, the "twin towers", the "third book of the lord of the rings" and two-rivers itself, both in a personal and political sense. Yes we got glimpses in the previous book (and this one) but those were made when EVERYONE was alive and EVERYONE could discuss. And a bit of the 3 lovers relation with the wanderer...
AGAIN, and paraphrasing what i said above: "MIND YOU THAT IM NOT TALKING ABOUT A SOLIFIED HAPPY ENDING"
I didnt need a "We will end slavery" scene and then recieve a "and therefore slavery was forever finished". But i kinda needed a "We must end slavery." "No we dont." "Let's see how it goes in the future." kinda scene. DISCLAIMER: It is NOT my intention to use this example in a way that seems to demand this scene from the Seachan, Im just using the slavery example because @Nae'Blis said this word and it was the first example that came to mind.
Now... this are my thoughs about the ending. I didnt talk about plot points because i have no intention one talking about them, being them good or bad (example of a good- three warriors that went and faced the enemy general, and the three mirrored the dragon reborn journey - at least his mishappens - | example of bad - the staby staby stalker just became an afterthough in this last 3/4 books... so much potential)
Well... since there is a tv show, lets watch it and see if it is worth the time. And i will pray that there is some kind of game, or mod for an existing game, about the wheel of time. I have a void that needs to be filled
Spoiler !!!! Don't read below unless you finished the series
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You seem to forget one big big factor is Rand/The Dragon is still alive and seemly w/ godlike power, he seems to have power that doesn't require channeling nor anyone can even detect it. In fact we don't what his power, limit to his power (if any). There are people in power knows (or suspect) he still alive (Min, Elaine, Aviendas ... Nynaeve suspect it, and Catswayne more than suspect it and she will be the Armyline) . Rand may keep his anonymity for awhile but if/when any world events like the Seanchan or the Black Tower taking over a country. Rand certainly will not let his "Dragon Peace" be broken or let the Black Tower take over Andor/Caemlyn since they're so close to it,
most likely the Black Tower will somewhere else, there are still unclaimed land to the north.
I don't think the Seanchan culture of enslaving channelers will not last long, now with men can channels and they can't collar them, there isn't enough black idam for them to do it.
I think whatever Aviendas experienced in those glass columns are only possible future and if she (or the wise one) go through it again will see a different future.
***SPOILERS***
I don't know, I think Rand's "reward" was being freed from that responsibility and able to lead a normal life. Seanchan have the domination bands since Egeanin and Bayle turned it over so male damane coming soon. I think we may have even heard of it already happening asthere men affected by forkroot and taken away by Seanchan too.
Also I don't think that you give Andor enough credit when it comes to power politically I mean. Elayne is a First Sister to one of the most influential Wise Women, (both of whom will live to be like 300 years old assuming no oath rod). She already united Andor and Carhein in one nation, and is one of the Highest Ranked Aes Sedai. I believe at the end of the books Faile is the Queen of Saldaea and also sworn to Elayne same for Giledan (as that queen is sworn to Perin who is sworn to her). She's got nearly half of the Westlands in her pocket. She also has an Ace up her sleeve. The ability to go HEY I AM THE MOTHER OF THE DRAGON REBORN'S CHILDREN! MY LINE HOLDS HIS BLOOD! If anyone can claim 'divine right to rule' it is her bloodline after that. (Yes I know Aviendha will have like 8 of Rand's kids, that is after the Dragon Reborn has been proclaimed dead. So not really as much in terms of political power, and it means less to the Aiel.)
I predict that Elayne will become the single most powerful Queen in the history of the Third or Fourth Age. And with her long lifespan, she could probably make moves that will destroy the Seanchan without them ever knowing it. (And to be fair I predict Mat is going to do some work towards destroying the Seanchan's use of Damanae. Because at the end of the day Mat is a good man.)
Actually, Elayne and Aviendha can live over 600 years if they're aren't bound to the oath rod.
@@sacredbeastzenon Fair I might have been underestimating the time table but ya there is no way that Elayne isn't one of the most powerful rulers in the Westerlands during the 4th age.
The dragons peace, will hold and then not be needed. Remember the empress can channel, the secret is out, and matt is 2ic, his influence will be every present. Hail manetheron.
Ya the blight doesnt just instantly recede, relinquish and unmake itself = Shadow spawn. Every point you make is thought out well brother. To mention Rands visions of the past from his ancestry he sees the victory of the sealing of the bore and the soldier that cant find a place in society after he feels life is almost purposeless. quote [there are still dark spawn to kill]. Hey if I say to much man tell me I dont want to spoil for others through commenting, but I really get into this story
As for the question in the background, I can not pick between Berelain, Elayne, and Lanfear.
Make more, battle videos of course but I understand the time taken. Appreciate it all
Galad, obviously. I think that once he'd decided to do it, he'd be extremely conscientious and never try to short sell you
Even just the changes in culture to the two rivers not even from gates. It was naturally occurring simply from war and unrest to the west. There would be a great spread of lifestyle.
What do you mean it'd be too similar to happen??? It's called the WHEEL of TIME. "An age yet to come, an age long past." Everything repeats endlessly.
Look at the treaty of perpetual peace signed between England and France in the 16th century. It’s was broken within a few years while Henry VII and Francis I were still ruling, and they signed the treaty themselves. Treaties of peace do not hold.