@@AlexBallMusic just one more reason why I love following this channel (aside from the obvious nerdgasmic synthy goodness), is all the silly humour and wordplay. Kudos. 🙌
@@AlexBallMusic hello actually he did the beat of 'i cant dance ' by sequencing the hidden factory drumkit that is into this jd 800,very uncanny 'drums' 😉
It is a really cool synth. I was hoping to get one since 1994 but they were always too expensive. Around 2007 I found one with a hard case for 650EUR. Glad I got it since the prices have gone insane ever since. A few years ago I thought of acquiring a JD-990 for touring but no, you definitely can’t get one below a grand.
some sound design gold in there, if you know what you're looking for... whoever is gate-keeping the Sysex data knows this for sure, and that makes their decision to do so all the more bourgeousie.
Original In the Cage keyboard was the RMI Piano with his phaser pedal “built in” to the face of it. He later used the Quadra from ‘78-‘84 to reproduce the chords AND the lead synth. Organ sound on Abacab originally was the Prophet 10, not an actual organ. Quadra was the lead synth.
he also used that same electric piano with a fuzz pedal to harmonize with Hacket's guitar leads in the Musical Box! thats probably what the "MB" patch was for that Alex wasnt sure about, it sounds like a heavy guitar lead
Interesting what he managed to get out of the RMI - I always thought they sounded awful! Alan Price (remember him) used to play one a lot in the early 70s, and to this day, I’ve no idea why - it sounded terrible - unless it was simply because the RMI was seen as new tech in 1971…..and it was more portable than a grand piano. I was glad when the Yamaha CP80 came out, and things like the RMI died a quick death!
So here is the irony: you have Tony Banks' actual synth but oddly enough, from all the presets you demonstrate the only ones actually ended up being used live on stage were the sound for Domino (and that one I think he layered with Ensoniq SD1) and the Mama Poly sound (which was triggered by a custom midi unit). That poly sound is the pulsing thing throughout the verses and is originally an Arp Quadra. One reason many of these sounds didn't made it was simply because the associated songs weren't in the setlist. But… For the songs that did make it into the setlist: Invisible Touch: a layer of Rhodes MK80 and a more string like patch which I suspect to be just his P10 samples but could be JD800 (it's however not the sound you demonstrate here. I use P10 samples myself for this purpose); Home by the sea: that song consists of solely Synclavier sounds and the P10 string pad he used for many songs. He had both sampled by Emu and they fit those sounds into Emu Proteus racks in customized ROMS. The sounds you demonstrate are kind of creations of the Synclavier sounds but they are not the ones he used live (as he used the Emu for it); Mama (played only on a few USA shows): I think he used the same P10 sample here. It is the same pad he uses on many of these songs including Home by the sea. The poly synth (which is supposed to be the Arp Quadra) is on here. Follow you follow me: the sound created here sounds more like what he did with the Synclavier in 1986. However, the sound he used in 1992 was indeed the JD800, but just a patch made of two sawtooth waves (instead of pulses). More similar to the one from In the cage (but slightly different in the envelopes and tuning, n). Carpet Crawlers (only played in Southampton): Tony just used his piano sound for this which is a combination of Rhodes MK80 and Kurzweil K1200 That P10 string pad I referred to which is in his custom Emu Proteus unit was run through a Yamaha SPX1000 unit, using the Symphonic chorus preset. The banger sound you actually missed out on: the JD800 special setup which is of course the sounds for I can't dance (and also used in Driving the last spike during the "we worked in gangs" section). The other native JD800 sounds you missed out on: "Fantawine" (I forgot how the JD800 called this preset, but it's factory sound of wine glasses, available in all Roland romplers since the D50) for Driving the last spike and Hold on my heart; Analog strings (I think that was the name, have to check my notes when i can find them again) which are a layer in Dreaming while you Sleep; There is a patch for No son of mine (the tinkly bit during the chorus) but not sure what it was called. It's also used in Driving the last spike (layered with Wavestation). One of those DX7 rhodes like sounds in the JD800 was used for Hold on my heart (layered with Wavestation). The custom programmed sounds not included in this video but JD800: Lead for Follow you follow me, lead for Firth of Fifth (which is like 2 sawtooths with a short envelope, one oscillator tuned an octave higher but mixed in lower), I know what I like's intro sound. What I suspect is that this unit is from the Farm studio and used during writing and jamming but that the one he used on tour is still residing in his private home studio? I think he mentioned in an interview that a lot of the classical music he wrote at his home studio is done with the Oasys and JD800.
@@ardvrech thanks :) As you have his Oasys too, did he use P10 samples to create the string pad sounds for songs like HBTS, Domino, Mama or did he move on to other sounds?
One of my favorite synth RUclipsrs covering an instrument used by my favorite musician wooo. Originally, I believe the In The Cage organ sound was an RMI piano flavored with MXR Phase 100 and maybe a bit of Boss CE-1 as Tony liked to use around that time to replace the Leslie speaker. The solo was originally played with the Fuzz Guitar 1 patch on the pro soloist. Tony Banks used that preset a ton during Selling England by The Pound all through And Then There Were Three. To me it's instantly recognizable and unique to the Pro Soloist
@@AlexBallMusic That is well, kinda the trick with traditional instrument performers, and analog wonk, no note from *either* gets hit exactly the same (as quartz crystal driven digital things with a single sample dictate) it creates a rich choral effect when it stacks. Perfect timing and pitch results in a boring, thin sound.
I wonder if Tony Banks created those patches himself, or whether he used that strange creature of the 80s and 90s, a professional programmer. They were generally session musicians who had found they had a knack for creating the synth patches and samples that a major artist or producer wanted, and often specialised in a particular instrument while it was in vogue. The Emulator II, Prophet 2000, Fairlight, D-50 and DX-7 were notable instruments that a good programmer could demand high payment for programming.
Have no proof, but as a lifelong fan and student of him, he is as DIY as they come, the likelihood of any other person creating his sounds at any point in his career is zero. I believe he chose this board because its dirt simple to program.
@@evankeal as far as I can tell from all interviews, he's very hands on and always programmed and tweaked things himself. It's why he hated the D50 so much, too much menu diving. I suppose he loved the JD800 because of the sliders, basically giving him the same hands on experience he had with the Prophets and CS80.
Actually this is why Banks' contribution to later Genesis is much bigger than people tend to think. They think: there are no long solo's anymore, so Tony must have given up. But his things in the 80s and 90s were chord weaving and sound design. So yeah, he definitely did this himself.
I read one of his interviews on mu:zines a while back about the recording of his solo album Bankstatement and he says he used anything he “could get his hands on” to record that album, so I suppose he’d programmed most of the sounds on here himself.
Great material as always. I do think that “MB” patch could be used for the Musical Box, because back in the day Tony would play his electric piano (first the Hohner Pianet N, later the RMI 368X) through a fuzzbox during the second heavy bit, where he’d perform a faux-guitar solo. That came from the time when the band didn’t have Hackett and Tony had to play all the guitar solos on his fuzzy Pianet.
Funny thing was I never liked that fuzzed buzzy guitar sound combined with his patent tapping that Hackett used on the first albums, especially The Giant Hogweed. Much better when he discovered sustain /reverb! Such a lot of effort to recreate it on the keyboard
Sweet look into a little treasure chest! :D I still think you should have played C5 on the special part somewhere in this video... after all, I know you can't dance too. ;)
MB sound is Musical Box. He played a distorted lead sound, an electric piano I think a Hohner Pianet through a distortion or fuzz pedal. Check out around 6:40 of the original tune.
You should also have the “I Can’t Dance” percussion on there too… I can’t remember exactly how to access it but the patch is called “internal drums”. Thanks so much for sharing this awesome piece of Genesis history!!!
This Genesis series was so unbelievably enjoyabe for me. I saw them on tour in the 90s so he most likely using that very synth. Thank you for sharing these and keep up the great work!
As far as I know, Watcher was never performed live during the 90s. But the fact that it was patched in to this instrument definitely leads one to think that the song was planned to be a part of the setlists at the time, but could have been dropped last minute. The opening chords for the song sound suprisingly good on this synth. Kind of a shame that it was never done live. But you did a fine job interpreting what it might have sounded like. Thank you 🙂
Great video Alex! I wish you would have played the "I Can't Dance" Patches on the JD800. Carpet Crawlers was played only once in Southhampton in 1992. I think the Watcher patch was going to be layered with Emulator rack for the strings. It was probably an idea they were kicking around and then dropped. Obviously In The Cage was an idea for an Old Medly."MB" was used on I Know What I Like. Rumor was Phil wanted to play Supper's Ready in it's entirety, but Mike and Tony didn't. The Poly used for Mama is probably for the gated pulse sound. Thank you for giving an insight on how Tony builds sounds. I wish Tony would start a RUclips channel to teach us tricks or how to properly play the songs.
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but the JD-800 also had, as part of its factory presets, a percussion patch which assigned one individual percussion sound per key - many of which feature in both the studio version AND 1992 live renditions of ‘I Can’t Dance’ . Presumably Tony Banks kept that patch setup unaltered (I can’t recall whether this particular patch was editable or not). Just thought folks might like to know. Sigh. I miss my old JD. 😢
Considering the JD-800 semi-notorious "red glue" problem it is great to see one in working order, then to hear the isolated sounds Tony used live is a special treat. In interviews Tony used to say he wasn't precious about sounds, for example instead of Mellotron he'd just get something that conjured up the spirit of the sounds. In his words the early Genesis was piano, organ and Mellotron because there wasn't a lot else. In the 80s he was more than happy to dump the Mellotrons which in another interview he said when touring they were basically "rebuilding" it every night. Another example the Turn It On Again tour the bulk of the sounds were from Korg Oasys and he said for early tracks all you needed was a couple of sawtooth waves and it was close enough...
I love Genesis since I was 6 yo. Today I´m almost 50. I can´t believe or imagine what would be and what would feel like to be in presence of those awesome instruments 😍♥💪 Thanks to share with us such an amazing experience. Always a delight to watch your videos. My best regards from Argentina. ❤
Indeed! I have 2 of these now, and the 990 rack with Strings Ensemble card set & the Vintage Synth expansion welded in to it!! Never selling these beautiful instruments 😌🙏🌟
Good work, indeed. The jd800 is, to me, "the most amazing synth of all time". I remember when it was released i flipped out. Have never owned one, sadly. Please keep them working.👍
I have the JD800 and the JD-990. The 990 is better but lacks the controls obviously. But the real shame is that they didn't use the D50 engine as that was a full blown VA in reality. The JD800's lineage is the D70 which is a bit of a love/hate synth. The D50 had the VA section because ROM for samples was just too expensive and they needed something for the sustain part of the sound. By the time of the D70 they could do it with PCM waves so didn't need the VA section, but as we know PCM doesn't offer much editing possibilities. Still, the JD990 is a real solid instrument, I bought one, sold one and bought it again, mine came from the USA and was used by a TV and film composer (not anyone you'd recognise if I mentioned who, I've forgotten anyway).
@@artisans8521 mostly sorted on my unit by the previous owner. A couple of keys are still a little sticky and B3 always plays at 127 velocity. Need to open it up to clean the last bits.
@@6581punk I also have the JD-800 and the 990. You can control the parameters of the 990 with the interface of the 800 which gives you the best of both worlds. Great combo!
HAH! I own a JD-800. Sometime in the late 1980s professional and amateur musicians started using the same equipment. I love that because it removed the inherent mystery of high end tech and refocused it back on talent. Tony Banks could make a cheap ROMpler sound gorgeous and I don't need a CS80 to make a track. In other words, I have no excuses. Love this channel!!
As a huge Genesis fan I am very grateful for this and the Phil samples video. Feels like a privilege getting some insight into the work they did on their records and performances.
I picked up Ron Maels (Sparks) JD800 last weekend. It’s still got all the Sparks patches in. Unfortunately it has the very start of the red glue issue so it’s at Antech in East Sussex getting sorted. It was being sold by their record company who were having a clear out.
This was brilliant thanks Alex. I had a random dinner chat with the keyboard player from Queen a few years back after dropping my wine over him at their photographer's gallery opening . It was fascinating to hear about recreating sounds live and getting those old sounds recreated . I was chuffed that I identified a few of the original patches they'd used that he had forgotten from the Works album, notably One Vision. I also used to know Stevie Wonder's guitar technician and he told me the precision to which they went to keep the synth sounds from earlier albums up to date on whatever kit Stevie was using at that time was immense. Lots of re-programming , multi-sampling and layering to replace a lot of the precious analogue kit together with the more reliable digital synth modules all through a rock solid master keyboard (KX88 / A-50 in those days)
@@simonhodgetts6530 A fine keybed but the ZX-81 style controller buttons are as painful as having to send manually entered raw HEX sysex ro do anything more useful than sending NOTEONs and offs. :). I bought the Cheetah Master Series 7P in 1990 because I couldn't afford the KX-88. It was awesome for playing piano too but I missed synth feel for the music I write. If you play piano and like the feel of a real piano keyboard and don't need to control virtual instruments from your controller, then it's great value now for an old one that works.
Interesting how cheesy some of the sounds are and yet - with decent live production - they sound superb. Cheers Alex. Some sounds very much like the JX8p, I used to own.
There’s something rather fun about digital synth emulations of analogue sounds. Every VA synth in the 90s would have presets called “Moog 8v Bass”, “Juno Pad” and “OB Brass”.
Here you are: For "In The Cage" in the seventies, Tony used a kind of sustained, phased, fuzzed electric piano/sawtooth patch on the RMI Electra Piano. (He had the phaser and distortion stomp boxes built into the RMI, with custom switches protruding from the outside of the casing.) He used that distinctive (uniquely transistor-generated) harpsichord-like sound on the RMI for "Carpet Crawlers," as did Rick Wakeman on "Fragile" (and in other places). The organ on Abacab was the Prophet 10: oscillators set in octaves (from day one). That "Follow You" sound on the Roland is a wonderful example of how certain sounds simply cannot be generated in digital. It's a universe away from the ARP oscillators. It just doesn't work. It's a different animal. --Adam Berenson (I was fortunate to play the piano that Tony used on "The Lamb" and "Trick" in his living room, in 1991; probably when he had just begun using the Roland in the above video. Lots to say about that!)
"certain sounds simply cannot be generated in digital. It's a universe away from the ARP oscillators." That does not follow, and you know it. Anything analog can be recreated digitally, and the reverse is not true. The analog fad is just nostalgia of something that didn't actually happen. And even this "debate" is no such thing, and tired and old anyway.
@@NicolaLarosaAs a keyboard player who owns both analog and digital synthesizers and throw in VST to boot I find it exceedingly annoying when people say that digital is so far away from analog as to be unrecognizable and useless. It’s incredible. Two keyboard tones that are almost identical and yet they will always claim that they can hear a huge difference and digital is crap. It must suck going through life with ears that blow chunks like the OP. 😃
@@darryldouglas6004I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’re useless and unrecognizable. And I don’t have any problem with people using VSTs or samples. But the components used in the original instruments had imperfections that made the sound unique. High end sample sets of pianos are pretty convincing too, but they still aren’t the same as playing the real thing. Physical models like Pianoteq get closer though.
I think the original sound for in the cage on the lamb was a modified RMI electric piano which had a organ setting. He had a phaser and a fuzz built in or something like that. This sound is also used quite a lot on the Seconds Out live album. Apologies if this already was mentioned in the thread. Interesting vid BTW
MB is the lead tone that when you listen to the original and the Genesis Live from 1973 is the Electric Piano going through a fuzz tone totally overdriven - its the sound used when he and Hackett trade solos before the "She's a lady" section where it all settles down again for the big finale.
Wow, an actual keyboard once played by Tony Banks of the legendary Genesis! Great demo of their material, I think you played well, actually! As a Genesis fan myself, all of those sounds are definitely familiar!
In 1991, my mates use to have crushes on girls, but I would have crushes on synths. The JD800 was certainly one of my crushes at the time but she was untouchable because I couldn't afford her massive price for all that real-time control!
Incredible!! Thank you both to (especially) Andrew Ward and Alex Ball!! I used to own this trusty synth back in my day. My guess is things like Home By The Sea lead was used as a demo lead when he first got this...as is the ARP sounds because in the end they never did In The Cage on that tour but Tony did say in a Electronic Music magazine interview that he thought the sounds were way too thin. Which is true. The Home By The Sea leads were used by his personal custom E-mu Proteus. You forgot the to feature the "I Can't Dance" percussive mode which is in "internal mode". Also, the wine glass of the lead for Hold On My Heart. Still (No pun..LOL!), that's cool. BEYOND Cool!! Cheers!!! Darrin from Ontario, Canada!!
So much emulation of Banks's banks of keyboards! This beast was/is so handy at condensing Tony's rig. As far as I know, the band didn't play Watcher at all on that tour. Certainly they did not play it at the shows I attended, and I've never come across it on tapes either. I'm sure it was there just-in-case. Thanks for this great video!
It's so great to finally hear the Invisible Touch patch isolated. It's one of the few Genesis songs where Tony is mostly buried under the guitars in the mix. I'm pretty certain he layered the Invisible Touch patch on the JD-800 with an electric piano sound to get what he used live.
That short Mama sound will have been used for the fast semi-quavers that drive the tune along. In the studio Tony programmed a drum machine to trigger the note ons and just held the chords. For live he played them which had the benefit of adding in little accents which helped glue it all together on stage
No, live he did the same. The only time he played it manually is on the videoclip for Mama. The Linndrum is triggering the Quadra for the Mama and IT tours. During the 1992 tour he had a custom midi unit built to get that effect (I think it was some form of arpeggiator or repeater, just repeating the notes timed to a midi clock). I suspect he just used midi clocking on subsequent tours to clock the filter.
This was INSANELY insightful, I never realized how much slightly detuning the oscillators actually played into sound design before :o Like, my brain always goes to DnB when I go detuning things, not this sort of application though: thank you for the peek behind a musical curtain!
Thank you for this! I was a teen that fell in love with Genesis! I was 14 and working my first job when I bought the album "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", after owning every album before it. I somehow knew that the band was going in a different direction and was bummed when Peter left the group. Still...I am still a huge Gabriel fan. He did the right thing! (Phil did what he had to do!)
It's so amazing to think about how it must feel like playing on the same instrument as one of the best musicians of all times (at least for me he is ^^). Must feel absolutely amazing :D
I’m not a genesis fan (& don’t know most of these songs 😊) but still enjoying these demos- I’m a big fan of the JD800 anyway so it’s great to see what it’s capable of...thanks Alex.
My dream synth back in the 90's all those banks of tweakable sliders after years of data entry knobs and menu diving digital synths. Never managed to get one though probably for the best with that red epoxy glue issue they seemed to suffer from. Still sound awesome today though .
Never warmed to this synth, glue problem, slider values that changed all on their own, cold sound, all plastic construction...some things belong in the 90s, this is one of them.
Love the design of that classic, I was thinking of getting the newish little desktop version of this, it's kinda call and sounds very similar at a good price.
It’s always interesting to note that pretty much all the top performers of the 70s and 80s, such as Tony Banks or Rick Wakeman, the ones who had all that amazing gear everybody dreams of, are rarely precious about it. They’ve all moved on to modern gear that does it all and is lighter and more reliable. While some of that is for touring practicalities - I’m sure Tony was glad not to be taking a Prophet 10 and Synclavier on tour, many of them don’t see the gear as more than tools and just use the most appropriate and up to date tool like anyone would.
I'm pretty sure Tony or Rick don't heft their own gear, but the threat of failure on a gig is real and the analogy KISS (Keep is Simple Stupid) really does play a big part of it. As a live Sound engineer through the 90's and 2000's I can attest to KISS. With complexity comes higher risk of failure... A lot of the 70's and early 80's kit really was delicate, so the chance to move on to more reliable smaller boxes would have been an obvious path. But yes, you're right, they are just tools.
@@dougle03 sorry I don’t mean they lug it, I would say those days are long behind them. But the reliability of a Prophet 10, ARP Quadra, Emulator I, even the Mellotron back when, all doing hundreds of dates…I guess that’s why they had the amount of gear redundancy they did. When the Genesis gear came up a year or so back, there was lots of duplicates, and I wonder just how much of it was even used by the band.
I just enjoyed reading (on Wikipedia) about Donald Fagen getting so annoyed with the original ARP Soloist constantly going out of tune that he threw it down the stairs, jumped on it, and then set fire to it for good measure. I guess that was one way of inspiring ARP to implement some digital tuning features to the follow up "Pro" version. The early synths must have been so frustrating for the pioneers.
I'm wondering if these patches on the JD-800 were "backup" patches for some of those songs, because clearly, different sounds were used on the 1992 tour for some of those songs than what I'm hearing out of the JD-800 in this video. For example, take listen to the lead sound from "Second home by the sea". It sounds like the patched used on his original Synclavier II (awesome sound), which I believe he sampled several of the sounds in songs from that era of the band, so Home by the Sea thankfully sounded pretty authentic, unlike a lot of his analog leads in songs from earlier periods they performed in 1992. But I'm hearing different sounds in your video for several of these patches. I'd say most of the sounds on that song from the tour are not the ones heard in this video. Either that, or they were drastically layered with another synth creating the most dominate sounds of the song. Where the JD-800 sounds were used in more dominate areas would be songs off "We can't dance" such as the sine sounds at the intro of the hit song "Hold on my heart" where it's almost like a sound effect/lead, but did have a nice sound to it. The sounds on the song "Invisible Touch" might have been what he used on the tour. I never found the sounds in the live versions of that song to match the record too closely. That ending sound for "Domino" did match what he used on the tour. I haven't seen any evidence they played "ABACAB", "In the cage" or "Watcher of the skies" during that tour. Maybe they were considered? I know ABACAB was considered and run through at rehearsal for their final tour a couple years ago, but sadly wasn't selected. Tony wouldn't want his JD-800 back. He's all about software now, and if he wanted his JD-800 sounds, Roland made an excellent VST of the JD-800 that nails those sounds. I wonder if via sysex these sounds could be directly loaded into the VST? Roland's D-50 VST does allow you to do that from the original instrument.
I‘m glad that i got a non-red-glue keybed for my JD800 a few years ago, i hope this beast lasts me for the next 10-15yrs. The prices went up crazy for this synth. I think i paid 500euros for mine
I have the Roland Sound Cloud and the JD-800 is one of the synths in the library. I actually owned one in the 90's when it came out and I loved it! I was so happy to get a software version.
On toe... love it! Tony banks was not on "tour" - he was on "toe" lol - don't worry... I have my own quirks when I speak, but nothing as cool as that. My favorite is the Scots that say "waddled" instead of "world" - Are we having fun yet! PS - Roland JD-800 is awesome... got my boutique version (Roland JD-08), which I absolutely love. ps - love your videos. thank you for that.
The only thing more impressive than Alex’ great Genesis synth breakdown is that that JD800 doesn’t seem to have the red glue problem. My JD800 not so lucky 😢.
It's been far longer than that for me! I'm on my third or fourth Genesis rabbit hole this lifetime. This time it's so severe that it's made its way into my everyday life and I can't escape it 😂
@@urbanfabric It's starting to make sense though, because the music is becoming a huge inspiration to the album I'm working on. I've been doing a video series that occasionally documents my music creating process as well and it was a real treat seeing the "making of the mama album" video. If you haven't watched that I highly recommend it and it can easily be found on RUclips. It's about 90 minutes of Phil's home movies of the band
Perhaps the "MB" sound is for There Must Be Some Other Way on the Calling All Stations tour, there is a lead halfway through that has that distorted guitar sound! You can hear it in this live recording: ruclips.net/video/3QJHSM2D09c/видео.html
The solo sounds on There must be some other way are all from the Korg Wavestation. It's the "mini lead" sound which he also used on Fading Lights :) What I do suspect is that the verse sounds for Congo are from the JD800.
Was a Gabriel era freak with Steve Hackett fan. Listened to complete Home by the sea the other night very loud. It is genius. My apology for not understanding sooner
@12:57 That sounds like a recreation of the sound Tony used to get by using a fuzz pedal on the Hohner Pianet back in the day. Part of what you hear as a guitar solo on "The Musical Box" was actually him playing, not Steve Hackett...
Amazing to hear those patches and associate them with the tracks. Quite amazing that you can’t distribute the sysex info, raising the question do programmed patches constitute intellectual property?
I remember reading about his use of the OASYS that he liked to upgrade and modernise the sounds, paying homage to the originals instead of trying to recreate them perfectly. Watcher Of The Skies may even have been directly referenced, with regards to layered string sounds. Now I knew he was a fan of the wave station, I'm a bit surprised to learn he also used a JD-800, since they were kinda alternates in a lot of ways.
I saw them at the Sydney Entertainment centre on the Invisible Touch tour in 1986. Whatever Tony Banks was playing that night covered the entire frequency spectrum and then some
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Tone A Banks
lol thank you! Tony is my fave
Tony's tones.
Banks' banks.
@@AlexBallMusic just one more reason why I love following this channel (aside from the obvious nerdgasmic synthy goodness), is all the silly humour and wordplay. Kudos. 🙌
A shame he let these go. He sadly just uses a Trinity & Wavestation these days.
@@AlexBallMusic hello actually he did the beat of 'i cant dance ' by sequencing the hidden factory drumkit that is into this jd 800,very uncanny 'drums' 😉
As a huge Genesis fan, I am visibly touched by this video.
I see what you did there
The man who got me into synths and keyboards, mr tony banks
@arpman5261 The man who.got me into.synths, Mr. John Foxx....and Gary Numan , oh yeah, and Billy Currie!
Vangelis
For me it was Tony, Steve Porcaro, Mark Mothersbaugh and Eno
I mean it would be cool enough to just have the instrument itself. But the patches still being on it, is simply insane ❤
It is a really cool synth. I was hoping to get one since 1994 but they were always too expensive. Around 2007 I found one with a hard case for 650EUR. Glad I got it since the prices have gone insane ever since. A few years ago I thought of acquiring a JD-990 for touring but no, you definitely can’t get one below a grand.
This video is a gift to synth artists everywhere. Thanks!
I got to see them on their last tour. Was a great concert. Bucket list show now checked off
1:02 It's "She Reaches IN not out - Hence the lyric Reaches in and grabs right hold of your heart!
Amazing video!!!
some sound design gold in there, if you know what you're looking for...
whoever is gate-keeping the Sysex data knows this for sure, and that makes their decision to do so all the more bourgeousie.
I doubt anybody is gate keeping it exactly. But just as a precaution due to copyright laws…
Think the "MB" Patch is for the song "Congo"
Listening to Alex pronounce "Mama" is a thing.
Potama, potama.
Holy based JD-800 video
My collection just shot up in value by like at least $300 on Reverb, thanks based synthtuber
After some marvels such as Riding the Scree in the 70s, these 80s/90s synth parts feel a bit "simple", to say it politely
Original In the Cage keyboard was the RMI Piano with his phaser pedal “built in” to the face of it. He later used the Quadra from ‘78-‘84 to reproduce the chords AND the lead synth. Organ sound on Abacab originally was the Prophet 10, not an actual organ. Quadra was the lead synth.
he also used that same electric piano with a fuzz pedal to harmonize with Hacket's guitar leads in the Musical Box! thats probably what the "MB" patch was for that Alex wasnt sure about, it sounds like a heavy guitar lead
Thanks both!
@@projectz975 That was a Hohner Pianet on The Musical Box. Have a great day.
Cage lead sound was Pro Soloist also.
Interesting what he managed to get out of the RMI - I always thought they sounded awful! Alan Price (remember him) used to play one a lot in the early 70s, and to this day, I’ve no idea why - it sounded terrible - unless it was simply because the RMI was seen as new tech in 1971…..and it was more portable than a grand piano. I was glad when the Yamaha CP80 came out, and things like the RMI died a quick death!
So here is the irony: you have Tony Banks' actual synth but oddly enough, from all the presets you demonstrate the only ones actually ended up being used live on stage were the sound for Domino (and that one I think he layered with Ensoniq SD1) and the Mama Poly sound (which was triggered by a custom midi unit). That poly sound is the pulsing thing throughout the verses and is originally an Arp Quadra.
One reason many of these sounds didn't made it was simply because the associated songs weren't in the setlist. But… For the songs that did make it into the setlist:
Invisible Touch: a layer of Rhodes MK80 and a more string like patch which I suspect to be just his P10 samples but could be JD800 (it's however not the sound you demonstrate here. I use P10 samples myself for this purpose);
Home by the sea: that song consists of solely Synclavier sounds and the P10 string pad he used for many songs. He had both sampled by Emu and they fit those sounds into Emu Proteus racks in customized ROMS. The sounds you demonstrate are kind of creations of the Synclavier sounds but they are not the ones he used live (as he used the Emu for it);
Mama (played only on a few USA shows): I think he used the same P10 sample here. It is the same pad he uses on many of these songs including Home by the sea. The poly synth (which is supposed to be the Arp Quadra) is on here.
Follow you follow me: the sound created here sounds more like what he did with the Synclavier in 1986. However, the sound he used in 1992 was indeed the JD800, but just a patch made of two sawtooth waves (instead of pulses). More similar to the one from In the cage (but slightly different in the envelopes and tuning, n).
Carpet Crawlers (only played in Southampton): Tony just used his piano sound for this which is a combination of Rhodes MK80 and Kurzweil K1200
That P10 string pad I referred to which is in his custom Emu Proteus unit was run through a Yamaha SPX1000 unit, using the Symphonic chorus preset.
The banger sound you actually missed out on: the JD800 special setup which is of course the sounds for I can't dance (and also used in Driving the last spike during the "we worked in gangs" section).
The other native JD800 sounds you missed out on:
"Fantawine" (I forgot how the JD800 called this preset, but it's factory sound of wine glasses, available in all Roland romplers since the D50) for Driving the last spike and Hold on my heart;
Analog strings (I think that was the name, have to check my notes when i can find them again) which are a layer in Dreaming while you Sleep;
There is a patch for No son of mine (the tinkly bit during the chorus) but not sure what it was called. It's also used in Driving the last spike (layered with Wavestation).
One of those DX7 rhodes like sounds in the JD800 was used for Hold on my heart (layered with Wavestation).
The custom programmed sounds not included in this video but JD800:
Lead for Follow you follow me, lead for Firth of Fifth (which is like 2 sawtooths with a short envelope, one oscillator tuned an octave higher but mixed in lower), I know what I like's intro sound.
What I suspect is that this unit is from the Farm studio and used during writing and jamming but that the one he used on tour is still residing in his private home studio? I think he mentioned in an interview that a lot of the classical music he wrote at his home studio is done with the Oasys and JD800.
I can confirm that he had an OASYS in his home studio when I was there earlier this year, but NOT a JD-800… 🎹👍
I think the Hold on My Heart wine glass sound is called “Spun Glass”
@@ardvrech Do you happen to know if Tony owned multiples of the JD?
@@santibanks Yes, he had at least two at some stage…
@@ardvrech thanks :) As you have his Oasys too, did he use P10 samples to create the string pad sounds for songs like HBTS, Domino, Mama or did he move on to other sounds?
One of my favorite synth RUclipsrs covering an instrument used by my favorite musician wooo.
Originally, I believe the In The Cage organ sound was an RMI piano flavored with MXR Phase 100 and maybe a bit of Boss CE-1 as Tony liked to use around that time to replace the Leslie speaker. The solo was originally played with the Fuzz Guitar 1 patch on the pro soloist. Tony Banks used that preset a ton during Selling England by The Pound all through And Then There Were Three. To me it's instantly recognizable and unique to the Pro Soloist
I guessed right then!
Amazing how big of a sound you can get from just layering multiple slightly different saw waves.
Yeah! A lot of these sounds are just straight to the point, but employ those effective tricks.
@@AlexBallMusic That is well, kinda the trick with traditional instrument performers, and analog wonk, no note from *either* gets hit exactly the same (as quartz crystal driven digital things with a single sample dictate) it creates a rich choral effect when it stacks. Perfect timing and pitch results in a boring, thin sound.
That detuning and octave toggling trick also makes for one heck of an effective sound-fattener. 👍
The last couple videos have felt like seeing proper music history preserved for us. Really great videos!
Yeah , some proper archaeology.
I wonder if Tony Banks created those patches himself, or whether he used that strange creature of the 80s and 90s, a professional programmer. They were generally session musicians who had found they had a knack for creating the synth patches and samples that a major artist or producer wanted, and often specialised in a particular instrument while it was in vogue. The Emulator II, Prophet 2000, Fairlight, D-50 and DX-7 were notable instruments that a good programmer could demand high payment for programming.
Very good question, I'd love to know!
Have no proof, but as a lifelong fan and student of him, he is as DIY as they come, the likelihood of any other person creating his sounds at any point in his career is zero. I believe he chose this board because its dirt simple to program.
@@evankeal as far as I can tell from all interviews, he's very hands on and always programmed and tweaked things himself. It's why he hated the D50 so much, too much menu diving. I suppose he loved the JD800 because of the sliders, basically giving him the same hands on experience he had with the Prophets and CS80.
Actually this is why Banks' contribution to later Genesis is much bigger than people tend to think. They think: there are no long solo's anymore, so Tony must have given up. But his things in the 80s and 90s were chord weaving and sound design. So yeah, he definitely did this himself.
I read one of his interviews on mu:zines a while back about the recording of his solo album Bankstatement and he says he used anything he “could get his hands on” to record that album, so I suppose he’d programmed most of the sounds on here himself.
Great material as always.
I do think that “MB” patch could be used for the Musical Box, because back in the day Tony would play his electric piano (first the Hohner Pianet N, later the RMI 368X) through a fuzzbox during the second heavy bit, where he’d perform a faux-guitar solo. That came from the time when the band didn’t have Hackett and Tony had to play all the guitar solos on his fuzzy Pianet.
I thought the same
Yep, that was the first thing I thought of too. That solo is incredible! I wish they had more metal moments :D
I had the same thought too. Listening to MB live the last part of the song is just blown out distorted and this sound would work fine for that.
Funny thing was I never liked that fuzzed buzzy guitar sound combined with his patent tapping that Hackett used on the first albums, especially The Giant Hogweed. Much better when he discovered sustain /reverb! Such a lot of effort to recreate it on the keyboard
Sweet look into a little treasure chest! :D
I still think you should have played C5 on the special part somewhere in this video... after all, I know you can't dance too. ;)
MB sound is Musical Box. He played a distorted lead sound, an electric piano I think a Hohner Pianet through a distortion or fuzz pedal. Check out around 6:40 of the original tune.
Yeah, that sounds pretty spot on.
You should also have the “I Can’t Dance” percussion on there too… I can’t remember exactly how to access it but the patch is called “internal drums”. Thanks so much for sharing this awesome piece of Genesis history!!!
Hello, fellow Michigander? 😁
@@archivethearchives indeed! Where are you from?
Yep, that's in the internal MULTI sounds.
@@PreferToBeAnonymous next to Ypsi. You? 😎
This Genesis series was so unbelievably enjoyabe for me. I saw them on tour in the 90s so he most likely using that very synth. Thank you for sharing these and keep up the great work!
BRO! I just got a jd 800 - any chance of getting those patches??? pretty please... cherries on top if required.
This was filmed in your stu-stu-studio.....
Yes-yes-yesio.
its so interesting hearing how he'd mimick the sound of the old synths he's play in the 70s with the latest 90s technology.
Yeah! The most interesting aspect for me.
As far as I know, Watcher was never performed live during the 90s. But the fact that it was patched in to this instrument definitely leads one to think that the song was planned to be a part of the setlists at the time, but could have been dropped last minute.
The opening chords for the song sound suprisingly good on this synth. Kind of a shame that it was never done live. But you did a fine job interpreting what it might have sounded like. Thank you 🙂
Yeah, shout louder at the encore and you could have had it.
Great video Alex! I wish you would have played the "I Can't Dance" Patches on the JD800. Carpet Crawlers was played only once in Southhampton in 1992. I think the Watcher patch was going to be layered with Emulator rack for the strings. It was probably an idea they were kicking around and then dropped. Obviously In The Cage was an idea for an Old Medly."MB" was used on I Know What I Like. Rumor was Phil wanted to play Supper's Ready in it's entirety, but Mike and Tony didn't. The Poly used for Mama is probably for the gated pulse sound. Thank you for giving an insight on how Tony builds sounds. I wish Tony would start a RUclips channel to teach us tricks or how to properly play the songs.
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but the JD-800 also had, as part of its factory presets, a percussion patch which assigned one individual percussion sound per key - many of which feature in both the studio version AND 1992 live renditions of ‘I Can’t Dance’ . Presumably Tony Banks kept that patch setup unaltered (I can’t recall whether this particular patch was editable or not). Just thought folks might like to know.
Sigh. I miss my old JD. 😢
Still slightly disappointed that there was no evaluation of each sound's merit "with my face".
"At first glance that Roadie was scatching all the notches"
Considering the JD-800 semi-notorious "red glue" problem it is great to see one in working order, then to hear the isolated sounds Tony used live is a special treat. In interviews Tony used to say he wasn't precious about sounds, for example instead of Mellotron he'd just get something that conjured up the spirit of the sounds. In his words the early Genesis was piano, organ and Mellotron because there wasn't a lot else. In the 80s he was more than happy to dump the Mellotrons which in another interview he said when touring they were basically "rebuilding" it every night. Another example the Turn It On Again tour the bulk of the sounds were from Korg Oasys and he said for early tracks all you needed was a couple of sawtooth waves and it was close enough...
I love Genesis since I was 6 yo. Today I´m almost 50. I can´t believe or imagine what would be and what would feel like to be in presence of those awesome instruments 😍♥💪 Thanks to share with us such an amazing experience. Always a delight to watch your videos. My best regards from Argentina. ❤
Well, you're definitely not getting a copyright strike for that cover of Invisible Touch! Nice video though
Copyright system: "Well, the lyric is heart, so...all good"
Tony used a lot the Wavestation, specially on the We Cant Dance album, those pads and leads ....love the JD800 aged very well.
I love the Wavestation as well…a lot of great sounds on there
@@subwaygaragemusicvery difficult to program.
Genesis used to open for 332 The Rumba of the Beast back in the day. Nice to see they were nearly as successful as we were.
JD800 is such a beautiful beast! Please make more content with this magnificent synth!
Indeed! I have 2 of these now, and the 990 rack with Strings Ensemble card set & the Vintage Synth expansion welded in to it!! Never selling these beautiful instruments 😌🙏🌟
Good work, indeed. The jd800 is, to me, "the most amazing synth of all time". I remember when it was released i flipped out. Have never owned one, sadly. Please keep them working.👍
Literally just bought a JD-800 myself, 3 days ago! The stars have aligned it seems! Extremely cool synth. Love the filter and the controls.
I have the JD800 and the JD-990. The 990 is better but lacks the controls obviously. But the real shame is that they didn't use the D50 engine as that was a full blown VA in reality. The JD800's lineage is the D70 which is a bit of a love/hate synth. The D50 had the VA section because ROM for samples was just too expensive and they needed something for the sustain part of the sound. By the time of the D70 they could do it with PCM waves so didn't need the VA section, but as we know PCM doesn't offer much editing possibilities. Still, the JD990 is a real solid instrument, I bought one, sold one and bought it again, mine came from the USA and was used by a TV and film composer (not anyone you'd recognise if I mentioned who, I've forgotten anyway).
@@artisans8521 mostly sorted on my unit by the previous owner. A couple of keys are still a little sticky and B3 always plays at 127 velocity. Need to open it up to clean the last bits.
@@6581punk I also have the JD-800 and the 990. You can control the parameters of the 990 with the interface of the 800 which gives you the best of both worlds. Great combo!
Wow! You lucky, lucky b*gger!
@@stevengasiecki8826How do you do that!?
HAH! I own a JD-800. Sometime in the late 1980s professional and amateur musicians started using the same equipment. I love that because it removed the inherent mystery of high end tech and refocused it back on talent. Tony Banks could make a cheap ROMpler sound gorgeous and I don't need a CS80 to make a track. In other words, I have no excuses. Love this channel!!
Absolutely superb, huge Genesis fan here. Want to fire up my JD990 now and make some recreations. 👌
Great stuff Alex. As a big Genesis and Tony Banks fan this was a real treat for me. The JD800 was a great machine back in the day and this proves it.
As a huge Genesis fan I am very grateful for this and the Phil samples video. Feels like a privilege getting some insight into the work they did on their records and performances.
I picked up Ron Maels (Sparks) JD800 last weekend. It’s still got all the Sparks patches in. Unfortunately it has the very start of the red glue issue so it’s at Antech in East Sussex getting sorted. It was being sold by their record company who were having a clear out.
Thanks for doing the mama preset🙏 I've been on a bender of that song lately 🎹🎛️🎧 absolutely brilliant 👌
This was brilliant thanks Alex. I had a random dinner chat with the keyboard player from Queen a few years back after dropping my wine over him at their photographer's gallery opening . It was fascinating to hear about recreating sounds live and getting those old sounds recreated . I was chuffed that I identified a few of the original patches they'd used that he had forgotten from the Works album, notably One Vision. I also used to know Stevie Wonder's guitar technician and he told me the precision to which they went to keep the synth sounds from earlier albums up to date on whatever kit Stevie was using at that time was immense. Lots of re-programming , multi-sampling and layering to replace a lot of the precious analogue kit together with the more reliable digital synth modules all through a rock solid master keyboard (KX88 / A-50 in those days)
I’d still like a KX-88!
@@simonhodgetts6530 A fine keybed but the ZX-81 style controller buttons are as painful as having to send manually entered raw HEX sysex ro do anything more useful than sending NOTEONs and offs. :).
I bought the Cheetah Master Series 7P in 1990 because I couldn't afford the KX-88. It was awesome for playing piano too but I missed synth feel for the music I write.
If you play piano and like the feel of a real piano keyboard and don't need to control virtual instruments from your controller, then it's great value now for an old one that works.
A week learning it? You already almost had it mate. Give yourself more credit.
What an absolute thrill. Fascinating to consider the evolution of Tony’s sonic choices over the years.
Interesting how cheesy some of the sounds are and yet - with decent live production - they sound superb. Cheers Alex. Some sounds very much like the JX8p, I used to own.
It's amazing what happens in a full mix. Little gripes you have with your sounds disappear!
I just add some mild compression to my master mix and boom, it’s all smoothed out. 🎉
Think the drums and "rhods" sound from I Can't Dance was played on that.
There’s something rather fun about digital synth emulations of analogue sounds.
Every VA synth in the 90s would have presets called “Moog 8v Bass”, “Juno Pad” and “OB Brass”.
Here you are: For "In The Cage" in the seventies, Tony used a kind of sustained, phased, fuzzed electric piano/sawtooth patch on the RMI Electra Piano. (He had the phaser and distortion stomp boxes built into the RMI, with custom switches protruding from the outside of the casing.) He used that distinctive (uniquely transistor-generated) harpsichord-like sound on the RMI for "Carpet Crawlers," as did Rick Wakeman on "Fragile" (and in other places). The organ on Abacab was the Prophet 10: oscillators set in octaves (from day one). That "Follow You" sound on the Roland is a wonderful example of how certain sounds simply cannot be generated in digital. It's a universe away from the ARP oscillators. It just doesn't work. It's a different animal. --Adam Berenson (I was fortunate to play the piano that Tony used on "The Lamb" and "Trick" in his living room, in 1991; probably when he had just begun using the Roland in the above video. Lots to say about that!)
"certain sounds simply cannot be generated in digital. It's a universe away from the ARP oscillators." That does not follow, and you know it. Anything analog can be recreated digitally, and the reverse is not true. The analog fad is just nostalgia of something that didn't actually happen. And even this "debate" is no such thing, and tired and old anyway.
So you know better than Tony? 😃
@@NicolaLarosaAs a keyboard player who owns both analog and digital synthesizers and throw in VST to boot I find it exceedingly annoying when people say that digital is so far away from analog as to be unrecognizable and useless. It’s incredible. Two keyboard tones that are almost identical and yet they will always claim that they can hear a huge difference and digital is crap. It must suck going through life with ears that blow chunks like the OP. 😃
Don't be silly. Banks didn't care if the later instruments produced exact replicas of past sounds. It was a non-issue for him. @@darryldouglas6004
@@darryldouglas6004I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’re useless and unrecognizable. And I don’t have any problem with people using VSTs or samples. But the components used in the original instruments had imperfections that made the sound unique. High end sample sets of pianos are pretty convincing too, but they still aren’t the same as playing the real thing. Physical models like Pianoteq get closer though.
Instant click instant like... hope Phil Collins&co. watch this, buy some 80s synths, and compose again
This is from 1992.
I think the original sound for in the cage on the lamb was a modified RMI electric piano which had a organ setting. He had a phaser and a fuzz built in or something like that. This sound is also used quite a lot on the Seconds Out live album. Apologies if this already was mentioned in the thread. Interesting vid BTW
MB is the lead tone that when you listen to the original and the Genesis Live from 1973 is the Electric Piano going through a fuzz tone totally overdriven - its the sound used when he and Hackett trade solos before the "She's a lady" section where it all settles down again for the big finale.
Wow, an actual keyboard once played by Tony Banks of the legendary Genesis! Great demo of their material, I think you played well, actually! As a Genesis fan myself, all of those sounds are definitely familiar!
In 1991, my mates use to have crushes on girls, but I would have crushes on synths. The JD800 was certainly one of my crushes at the time but she was untouchable because I couldn't afford her massive price for all that real-time control!
Incredible!! Thank you both to (especially) Andrew Ward and Alex Ball!!
I used to own this trusty synth back in my day.
My guess is things like Home By The Sea lead was used as a demo lead when he first got this...as is the ARP sounds because in the end they never did In The Cage on that tour but Tony did say in a Electronic Music magazine interview that he thought the sounds were way too thin.
Which is true.
The Home By The Sea leads were used by his personal custom E-mu Proteus.
You forgot the to feature the "I Can't Dance" percussive mode which is in "internal mode".
Also, the wine glass of the lead for Hold On My Heart.
Still (No pun..LOL!), that's cool.
BEYOND Cool!!
Cheers!!!
Darrin from Ontario, Canada!!
Wow, it must have been so cool getting to play a synth Genesis used on tour!
Great video, thanks for sharing this with us.
So much emulation of Banks's banks of keyboards! This beast was/is so handy at condensing Tony's rig. As far as I know, the band didn't play Watcher at all on that tour. Certainly they did not play it at the shows I attended, and I've never come across it on tapes either. I'm sure it was there just-in-case. Thanks for this great video!
Maybe they initially planned to do it and went as far as making the patch (or even rehearsing it) before deciding against it?
It's so great to finally hear the Invisible Touch patch isolated. It's one of the few Genesis songs where Tony is mostly buried under the guitars in the mix. I'm pretty certain he layered the Invisible Touch patch on the JD-800 with an electric piano sound to get what he used live.
Gotta ask…how on earth did you acquire Tony’s tour keyboard?
Ancient Chinese secret. ;P
That short Mama sound will have been used for the fast semi-quavers that drive the tune along.
In the studio Tony programmed a drum machine to trigger the note ons and just held the chords. For live he played them which had the benefit of adding in little accents which helped glue it all together on stage
No, live he did the same. The only time he played it manually is on the videoclip for Mama. The Linndrum is triggering the Quadra for the Mama and IT tours. During the 1992 tour he had a custom midi unit built to get that effect (I think it was some form of arpeggiator or repeater, just repeating the notes timed to a midi clock). I suspect he just used midi clocking on subsequent tours to clock the filter.
MB sounds a lot like the lead sound in Second Home by the Sea (Genesis, 1983).
This was INSANELY insightful, I never realized how much slightly detuning the oscillators actually played into sound design before :o
Like, my brain always goes to DnB when I go detuning things, not this sort of application though: thank you for the peek behind a musical curtain!
Thank you for this! I was a teen that fell in love with Genesis! I was 14 and working my first job when I bought the album "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", after owning every album before it. I somehow knew that the band was going in a different direction and was bummed when Peter left the group. Still...I am still a huge Gabriel fan. He did the right thing! (Phil did what he had to do!)
It's so amazing to think about how it must feel like playing on the same instrument as one of the best musicians of all times (at least for me he is ^^). Must feel absolutely amazing :D
They never played In The Cage nor Watcher of the Skies in the 90s... interesting.
I’m not a genesis fan (& don’t know most of these songs 😊) but still enjoying these demos- I’m a big fan of the JD800 anyway so it’s great to see what it’s capable of...thanks Alex.
You should give the music a try! They are a great band
He may of used it in a live gig but the original was a synclavier II.
ruclips.net/video/7veZmL-0ZAA/видео.htmlsi=R9aMzJN4Lg2abvQV&t=313
My dream synth back in the 90's all those banks of tweakable sliders after years of data entry knobs and menu diving digital synths.
Never managed to get one though probably for the best with that red epoxy glue issue they seemed to suffer from.
Still sound awesome today though .
Never warmed to this synth, glue problem, slider values that changed all on their own, cold sound, all plastic construction...some things belong in the 90s, this is one of them.
8:30 Prophet-10 Mama. Then goes on to play the first three chords of In the Air Tonight.😂👍
Love the design of that classic, I was thinking of getting the newish little desktop version of this, it's kinda call and sounds very similar at a good price.
Well, at least he’s honest… He can’t play nearly as well as Tony Banks. But who can?
Hello Alex: Firstly, thank you for the little credit at the end. Also, sounds like Tony Banks really knew what he was doing. Keep up the good work.
It’s always interesting to note that pretty much all the top performers of the 70s and 80s, such as Tony Banks or Rick Wakeman, the ones who had all that amazing gear everybody dreams of, are rarely precious about it. They’ve all moved on to modern gear that does it all and is lighter and more reliable. While some of that is for touring practicalities - I’m sure Tony was glad not to be taking a Prophet 10 and Synclavier on tour, many of them don’t see the gear as more than tools and just use the most appropriate and up to date tool like anyone would.
I'm pretty sure Tony or Rick don't heft their own gear, but the threat of failure on a gig is real and the analogy KISS (Keep is Simple Stupid) really does play a big part of it. As a live Sound engineer through the 90's and 2000's I can attest to KISS. With complexity comes higher risk of failure... A lot of the 70's and early 80's kit really was delicate, so the chance to move on to more reliable smaller boxes would have been an obvious path. But yes, you're right, they are just tools.
@@dougle03 sorry I don’t mean they lug it, I would say those days are long behind them. But the reliability of a Prophet 10, ARP Quadra, Emulator I, even the Mellotron back when, all doing hundreds of dates…I guess that’s why they had the amount of gear redundancy they did. When the Genesis gear came up a year or so back, there was lots of duplicates, and I wonder just how much of it was even used by the band.
I just enjoyed reading (on Wikipedia) about Donald Fagen getting so annoyed with the original ARP Soloist constantly going out of tune that he threw it down the stairs, jumped on it, and then set fire to it for good measure. I guess that was one way of inspiring ARP to implement some digital tuning features to the follow up "Pro" version. The early synths must have been so frustrating for the pioneers.
What a treasure. There's a few Genesis fans who'd pay Megabucks for that synth 😅
I'm wondering if these patches on the JD-800 were "backup" patches for some of those songs, because clearly, different sounds were used on the 1992 tour for some of those songs than what I'm hearing out of the JD-800 in this video.
For example, take listen to the lead sound from "Second home by the sea". It sounds like the patched used on his original Synclavier II (awesome sound), which I believe he sampled several of the sounds in songs from that era of the band, so Home by the Sea thankfully sounded pretty authentic, unlike a lot of his analog leads in songs from earlier periods they performed in 1992. But I'm hearing different sounds in your video for several of these patches. I'd say most of the sounds on that song from the tour are not the ones heard in this video. Either that, or they were drastically layered with another synth creating the most dominate sounds of the song.
Where the JD-800 sounds were used in more dominate areas would be songs off "We can't dance" such as the sine sounds at the intro of the hit song "Hold on my heart" where it's almost like a sound effect/lead, but did have a nice sound to it.
The sounds on the song "Invisible Touch" might have been what he used on the tour. I never found the sounds in the live versions of that song to match the record too closely. That ending sound for "Domino" did match what he used on the tour.
I haven't seen any evidence they played "ABACAB", "In the cage" or "Watcher of the skies" during that tour. Maybe they were considered? I know ABACAB was considered and run through at rehearsal for their final tour a couple years ago, but sadly wasn't selected.
Tony wouldn't want his JD-800 back. He's all about software now, and if he wanted his JD-800 sounds, Roland made an excellent VST of the JD-800 that nails those sounds. I wonder if via sysex these sounds could be directly loaded into the VST? Roland's D-50 VST does allow you to do that from the original instrument.
I‘m glad that i got a non-red-glue keybed for my JD800 a few years ago, i hope this beast lasts me for the next 10-15yrs. The prices went up crazy for this synth. I think i paid 500euros for mine
€500 sounds like a good deal. Or did you forget one 0?
@@bertvdlast i paid 500,but that was like 12yrs ago
would love to have the presets
I have the Roland Sound Cloud and the JD-800 is one of the synths in the library. I actually owned one in the 90's when it came out and I loved it! I was so happy to get a software version.
On toe... love it! Tony banks was not on "tour" - he was on "toe" lol - don't worry... I have my own quirks when I speak, but nothing as cool as that. My favorite is the Scots that say "waddled" instead of "world" - Are we having fun yet! PS - Roland JD-800 is awesome... got my boutique version (Roland JD-08), which I absolutely love. ps - love your videos. thank you for that.
The only thing more impressive than Alex’ great Genesis synth breakdown is that that JD800 doesn’t seem to have the red glue problem. My JD800 not so lucky 😢.
The legendary JD 800...Still go crazy over this amazing Roland 90s synth.
I went on a week long Genesis rabbit hole because of your last video! Thank You.
Me too!
It's been far longer than that for me! I'm on my third or fourth Genesis rabbit hole this lifetime. This time it's so severe that it's made its way into my everyday life and I can't escape it 😂
@@schumannbeing I'm right there with you!
@@urbanfabric It's starting to make sense though, because the music is becoming a huge inspiration to the album I'm working on. I've been doing a video series that occasionally documents my music creating process as well and it was a real treat seeing the "making of the mama album" video. If you haven't watched that I highly recommend it and it can easily be found on RUclips. It's about 90 minutes of Phil's home movies of the band
I went on a genesis rabbitt hole 33 years ago and still down here.. 😊😊
MB is the sound from the abacab solo section
Perhaps the "MB" sound is for There Must Be Some Other Way on the Calling All Stations tour, there is a lead halfway through that has that distorted guitar sound! You can hear it in this live recording: ruclips.net/video/3QJHSM2D09c/видео.html
Cheers, I'll check it out.
The solo sounds on There must be some other way are all from the Korg Wavestation. It's the "mini lead" sound which he also used on Fading Lights :) What I do suspect is that the verse sounds for Congo are from the JD800.
That’s a Wavestation sound which was used on Fading Lights as well
Was a Gabriel era freak with Steve Hackett fan. Listened to complete Home by the sea the other night very loud. It is genius. My apology for not understanding sooner
It is such an amazing thing that you have this. What an incredible honor! Please treat it well
I love it! Such cool sounds, but still not hard to recreate after hearing the explanation. Thank you so much, you're awesome!
@12:57 That sounds like a recreation of the sound Tony used to get by using a fuzz pedal on the Hohner Pianet back in the day. Part of what you hear as a guitar solo on "The Musical Box" was actually him playing, not Steve Hackett...
This is such a great video, especially just to see the simple ways he programmed big sounds with detuned layers
Amazing to hear those patches and associate them with the tracks. Quite amazing that you can’t distribute the sysex info, raising the question do programmed patches constitute intellectual property?
He should simply get in contact with Tony and ask. 😃
I remember reading about his use of the OASYS that he liked to upgrade and modernise the sounds, paying homage to the originals instead of trying to recreate them perfectly. Watcher Of The Skies may even have been directly referenced, with regards to layered string sounds. Now I knew he was a fan of the wave station, I'm a bit surprised to learn he also used a JD-800, since they were kinda alternates in a lot of ways.
Interesting because genesis didnt play in the cage during the 1992 tour which i think this synth was used for
And for the original the intro was a RMI electra piano 368x with organ mode and phaser and the solo was a 1971 ARP pro soloist with fuzz guitar
Really enjoyed this video, Alex! Tony Banks is so awesome and I am a huge fan of both him and the JD-800. It's a remarkable synth.
-In what bank did you say are this patches?
-In Tony Bank.
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Sorry
Tony's tones.
Banks' banks.
I saw them at the Sydney Entertainment centre on the Invisible Touch tour in 1986. Whatever Tony Banks was playing that night covered the entire frequency spectrum and then some
amazing video, please keep up the good work with genesis tones on synths