Did the Dutch Provoke the Japanese Invasion of the Dutch East Indies?
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Early 1942 the Dutch East Indies Campaign started. In a few month the Japanese conquered the Dutch East Indies. The KNIL (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger; Royal Netherlands East Indies Army) was not able to stop the Japanese onslaught. Did you know it were the Dutch themselves who declared war on Japan. This happened shortly after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. But was this really necessary? Was there a possible settlement such as what happened in French Indo-China?
History Hustle presents: Did the Dutch Provoke the Japanese Invasion of the Dutch East Indies?
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SOURCES
- Revolusi. Indonesië en het ontstaan van de moderne wereld (David van Reybrouck).
- Koloniale oorlogen in Indonesië. Vijf eeuwen verzet tegen vreemde overheersing (Piet Hagen).
- The Netherlands East Indies Campaign 1941-42. Japan's Quest for Oil [Campaign 364] (Marc Lohnstein).
- De doden tellen. Slachtofferaantallen van de Tweede Wereldoorlog en sindsdien (Renske Krimp).
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How the Dutch Controlled Indonesia
ruclips.net/video/AqHcyAj-Mz0/видео.html
I believe the Dutch colonies would’ve been occupied by one of the warring powers at some point. ANZAC or US forces would’ve felt compelled to seize imperial Japan’s source of oil
@@kurtreese7408That wouldn’t have meant that the Dutch had lost their influence, certainly not after the war.
Advocating for moral cowardice and a cozy go along get along policy of selling Japan war materials a la collaborationists France, Switzerland and Sweden? In other words stab friends, allies and innocents in the back by turning them over to the whimsical cruelties of militarists using claims of Japanese racial superiority as justification for mass murder, torture and rape throughout Asia and the Pacific. Try selling that moral justification to the Filipinos, Chinese, Pacific Islanders, Koreans, comfort women and POWs of Nazi Germany's only credible ally. You spoke today as a true post Christian European, Stefan.
Obrigado, Stefan! ヽ(͡◕ ͜ʖ ͡◕)ﾉ 🍀 🇧🇷
ruclips.net/video/XqF--NjrEjU/видео.html
The Dutch declared war on Japan before Britain and the US? Now that was a little detail I did not know.
Another one of the more obscure areas of WWII, often overlooked but interesting. Thankyou.
Japan needed oil which Dutch had the most of in that area.
Japan was invading Dutch colonies no matter what.
Excellent video! My father was one of the KNIL prisoners of war who was interned by the Japanese occupier for 3.5 years. My father told me the story of the Japanese delegation that came over to negotiate the purchase of oil from our refineries on the island of Borneo. Our response was "No " and that the Japanese responded, "if you don't sell it to us, we'll come and get it". Our propaganda was that we could beat those little yellow men with their bowed legs and thick glasses who could not even shoot straight. Truth is that there were too many islands across miles of sea, and not enough people to put up a decent defense and equipment that was obsolete in comparison to the Imperial forces of emperor Hirohito. Being a member of ABDA the Netherlands has been under pressure from the big boy in the group of four and not thinking in the interest of her citizens. Example: New Guinea and now Ukraine.
Thanks for sharing this Willem!
I have heard that the British leaders and staff in South East Asia had similar sentiments. This amount of underestimation and being a bit stuck in the past is probably related to the fall of many of the empires and kingdoms of the past.
It is because the armed forces of the NEI designed only for crushing the local insurgent and not fend off the foreign invader
The occupier being occupied.
Japan was expanding regardless of what anyone else said or did and if they needed oil they were taking it. War was coming regardless of what the Dutch did
You are right they bombed Australian cities with the intent to invade
Ok yankee
Japan wasn't going to randomly start war with Indonesia or the Netherlands just for shits and giggles if they had played ball.
@@poppinc8145 Japan had no right to expect any other nation to "play ball" or in other words blindly submit to Japanese demands
True but the Dutch could bide their time, time they could use to build up their forces, wait for equipment, consolidate defensive position, and better coordinate with the other Allied forces. As long as the east indies remain semi neutral the British Pacific fleet would have the time it needed to join forces with the US Pacific force.
Thanks for covering these subjects. The period of Dutch history between WW1 and the modern day is very complex , so much changed and happened in " just " a century.
Yeah they lost their colonies, what a shame :), and got a taste of their own cookie from the Japanese.
ruclips.net/video/XqF--NjrEjU/видео.html
@@Intel-i7-9700k You need to read a bit more about the matter it seems.
@@Intel-i7-9700k The Dutch did the same things as Japanese but worse. Ask the Indonesians ;)
He didn't mention the harsh treatment of Indonesians by the Dutch before & after WWII. Millions died under the hands of the Dutch
I know that the history community generally doesn’t indulge in what if scenarios, but I absolutely get how this is really frustrating and why you made this video👍👍👍👍
Many thanks👍
Thank you for filling in this missing piece. Terrible mistakes were made! The strangest thing was at the end of the war, the Japanese army was forced to assist the Dutch and British reestablish European empire on people the Japanese claimed to liberate.
ruclips.net/video/XqF--NjrEjU/видео.html
I guess that's true, but I read that there were also a handful of Japanese soldiers who sympathized with the Indonesian cause and fought alongside the nationalists as well when the Allies came in.
Wow, such interesting fact.
Japanese occupation led to many Indonesian youth become professional soldier by joining to Heiho, PETA and etc.
Most of what is become TKR is indeed those youngster.
True. Hope to cover more on that later.
I absolutely love the uniforms, and the backgrounds. Awesome work. Thank you.
Glad you appreciate it, thanks!
Most informative documentary episode about the invading of Dutch colonial by Japanese invaders in South East Asia ( Indonesia 🇮🇩 nowadays) .. I had previous knowledge about that event during WW2.. By Japanese invading but not in such details( allot thanks)..your introduction was a great 👌 👍🏻 ...allot thanks 🎬 for sharing....I think the Dutch government underestimated the Japanese empire, furious & strength..also it's not realized reality of British empire weaknesses efforts at 1940-1941 especially in South East Asia regional..also Duch governments was not realized that USA after WW1 ..published & worked on indirect imperialism method- through US Gained companies not like Great Britain or French direct colonialism ( through military exiting)...good luck and best wishes for you 👍🏻
Amazing and unknown history. Thanks for sharing stefan
Thanks for your reply.
Thank you. Another great video.
Thanks Mike.
Great reminder and update Stefan thank you ❤👍
Many thanks Jesse!
The Japanese did not need a provocation or invitation by the Dutch. The main target of their military campaign in Asia was already the oil of the Netherlands East Indies...
They were coming to the Dutch East indies whether the Dutch government declared war on them or not.
This was a really interesting subject. Thank you.
Thanks Brian!
I will admit, that is funny, the Dutch declare war on Japan, Japan's reaction, visible confusion.
Indeed.
Now this is an interesting point. Could it be argued that if the dutch had delivered the japanese all the oil they wanted, the pearl harbor attack would never have happened?
It just probably but i really doubt dutch capability to producing oil the japanese wanted, with embargo by americans and british, pacific war is inevitable, but dutch could atleast prevent the whole dutch empire destruction by stay neutral
But Japan wanted an empire and the Dutch east indes were always going to be part of that plan.
Another excellent video Stefan. I like how you cover such subjects. Outstanding! Cheers from Tennessee
I give you like .. because about history .bravo 👍👍 from indonesia
Thanks for watching!
i know
nice outfit bro and thanks many people will learn more about the dutch in ww2 in asia
happy new year too bro
🥉👍
Many thanks Carl. Best wishes 🎇
The Dutch declared war on Japan before Britain and the US?
that was stupid of the Dutch government -_-
and you have 100% could have gone differently for the citizens in the Dutch Indies, the same as with the French colony
Thanks for watching.
Very stupid indeed. The Dutch government at this time clearly did not have her colony's best interests in mind....
I recently disovered your channel. I really like what I've seen so far. Especially because of the Dutch history.
On most other channels I know, the Dutch part or perspective is a sidenote at most.
So, thanks Stefan. En, ga zo door.
Many thanks. Enjoy the future as well as the previous content.
my brother! awesome topic. happy new year
Thanks and best wishes to you as well.
Thank you, it's very interesting question. And I also counterfactual analysis like you've done in this video. But I still not understand one thing. You told that Japanese already in the middle of 1941 decided to take everything what they wanted by force. And the operations against Dutch Indies started already at 14.12.1941 - it means this operation in all kinds of military aspects had been prepared a long time before just because of logistics, so it seems to be that there's no matter, did Dutch governor declare war or not, there's only matter that Japanese did have a plan to bomb KNIL airfields and attack their ground forces. Just please help me to understand, are my thoughts can be correct and in what way how could this situation in Dutch Indies be more re less similar as in French Indo-China?
Interesting that we learn only at the very end of the presentation that the Japanese were greeted as liberators. The main reason for this, I suppose, was that Dutch colonial rule was a centuries long nightmare for the natives.
As in other areas of S.E. Asia, greeted as liberators at first, however it didnt take the Japanese occupiers long to tip their hand... the Indonesians went from being subjects of the Dutch East Indies to subjects of Hirohito and the brutal expanding Empire of Japan.
Happened quite often in history and found to be a grave error of judgement in many cases. The Japanese rule of the "colonies" would make the Nazis cringe. Independence was from both in the end was what they really wanted.
@@issigonis975 Japanese rule was far superior to both Italian and German rule. Nazis and Italians (in Africa and Albania) had a population reduction and permanent native deportation agenda that resulted in the death of millions. Japanese rule in SE Asia (as opposed to China, which indeed would have made the most ardent Nazi “cringe”) was involved in pacification of the native population. None of it was enlightening but there is a difference. At a minimum, 75 million people died violently in the Second War, and it was most often a matter of luck as to who survived. If you lived in Indonesia you had a far better chance of survival than in say Poland or Beloruss.
@@ronalddunne3413 I would guess that the 20,000 people, who died in Japanese internment camps, as cited in the presentation, were all Europeans. Undoubtedly Japanese overlords used the natives for forced labor and are not blameless. I know that here in America we still use prisoners for forced labor; it depends on the state. In the 1940’s they were called “chain-gangs” and it wasn’t pretty. Italian and German POWs were also used as slave-labor in Texas and California. Dutch colonial rule was one long 200 year atrocity. Four years after Japan’s surrender and after a bloody merciless war Indonesia threw off the Dutch shackles. You can see this any way you want to of course but Japan lost the war and the victors wrote the history of it.
the Netherlands declared war because of the shame of losing to the germans in five days, results it took over five days to lose the Dutch East Indies plus they wanted the allies to help them get back their colony after the they won the wharf which we did
Declaring war and breaking the trade agreements was certainly a mistake indeed with such a weak defence force. This is probably also a reason why the Europeans were treated much more harshly than those in other colonies during the occupation.
Europeans were treated very "harshly" by the Japanese EVERYWHERE, certainly not only in the East Indies. Most who survived capture were interned in starvation-regimen camps until dead thru starvation, lack of medical care, or sheer brutality. The strong or lucky lived to be liberated by Allied forces toward the end of the war. In my youth I had the honor of getting to know some of those survivors.
@@ronalddunne3413 For sure the camps were awful everywhere. Somehow the regime in a couple of camps in the East Indies seem to have been even worse than the others when you read the accounts of the survivors. Mortality rates in the East Indies camps were also higher compared to the ones in Singapore, Hong Kong and the Philippines. Mark Felton wrote a few books on the subject.
Most informative documentary I've learned from about the Japanese invasion of Dutch colonies.
You missed some very significant details.
1) Japan's economy ran on coal (about 2/3rds of domestic power) and hydroelectric. (BTW, oil didn't supplant coal as #1 source of power in the US until the 1960s). On the eve of Pearl Harbor Japan only had about 6,000 miles of paved roads and about 11,500 miles of rail, a lot of it in cities that were served by electrified street cars and some petrol fueled. (Japan's land is 54% larger than Britain's and Britain had nearly 20,000 miles of rail before WWII.) Japan is a very mountainous country, maritime shipping is cheap, and its major cities are on the coast. A lot of Japan's domestic maritime commerce was handled by littoral steamers powered by coal. Oil and resources such as rubber, bauxite, and tin were needed by military, chiefly the navy and army aviation. When Japan quit the Washington and London treaties and began to expand the navy it shifted resources into industries requiring a lot more power - steel making, aluminium smelting, and ship building. A cost of this expansion was the reduction of Japan's exports and foreign exchange earnings. Japan's war economy from 1937 onwards greatly depleted its foreign reserves - the decisive battle to defeat China in weeks didn't pan out. In '34, '35, and '36, military spending was 44.2%, 46.8%, and 48.4% of the government's expenditure, respectively. In '37, '38, and '39 it shot to over 70%. - in '38 it was 75.4%. And the government expenditure increased 466% from 1932 to 1940. The military was bleeding Japan dry. To keep feeding the war machine with resources required building a larger war machine to seize the resources.
2) Though the US was the world's largest producer of oil, the world's largest exporter in the 1930s was Venezuela. Yet, Japan imported very little oil from it directly. Why? Japan had few oil tankers though it had the world's third largest merchant maritime fleet - about 5%. Norway, the world's 4th largest merchant fleet (4%), had about 250 oil tankers, which was 40% of the world's tanker fleet not owned by oil companies and 18% of all tankers. In late '39, the British contracted service of 150 of these Norwegian tankers, which were the amongst the world's most modern. With Germany's invasion of Norway, the remaining tankers came under British contract. Further, the Dutch tankers came under British contract as the Netherlands was a wartime ally. Moreover, with Mexico's nationalisation of the petrol industry in '38, Britain refused to carry Mexican oil, which removed much of its output from the world market. In 1940, Japan had 49. Little Norway had five times more tankers than Japan. Japan was reliant on others to transport oil, and these ships were rapidly being removed from service due to wartime contracts, sinkings, and internment.
3) In 1940, Japan sought to diversity its oil imports from the US to the Dutch East Indies. On 12 Sep '40, a delegation led by Ichizo Kobayashi, Minister of Commerce and Industry, started negotiations in Batavia (later Jakarta) for the purchase of Dutch oil and the acquisition of oil fields and exploration rights in the East Indies. Tokyo wanted 50% of the islands' production, which would have required much more Dutch shipping at the expense of Britain's cause. At the time the East Indies supplied about 10% of Japan's crude. Ten days later Japanese troops entered neutral French Indochina - this surely rattled the Dutch. On 27 September, Tokyo joined the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy, and because the Netherlands was at war with and occupied by the Germans, the stance of the East Indies colonial government stiffened. Perhaps Tokyo wagered these moves would sufficiently strike fear in Governor-General Van Mook and he would cave. He didn't. By October 1940, negotiations had reached a deadlock. The Japanese were told that the Dutch government was not an oil merchant; Japan would have to negotiate with the oil companies. Japan demanded to pay in yen. The Dutch replied only guilders and dollars were accepted. Japan then demanded 3.5 million tons of crude and aviation fuel. The Dutch replied that most of its production was already contracted with others. In the end, Japan got about one-third its demand and no aviation fuel.
The Dutch didn't provoke or manoeuvre Japan into a corner. Tokyo did so all by itself. Much of the problem was its magical thinking - the belief in the decisive battle to resolve all its problems. This had it invade China in '37, thinking it would be a walkover. It then did so against the USSR and Mongolia in '39, and suffered a walloping. 'Let's go fight the Dutch, Britain, and America instead. I'll be easier.' Thinking the Dutch East Indies would sell Japan 50% of its oil and accept payment in useless yen was really magical thinking. Pearl Harbor was another 'the decisive battle'. And Midway. Magical thinking progressed through WWII, Japan seeking the decisive battle after the previous decisive battle. And it refused to learn each time reality failed to meet deranged expectations. The consequences of decisive-battle thinking cascaded. They didn't plan logistics thoroughly. Japan didn't have enough tankers. It didn't have enough destroyers to escort the tankers. It failed to implement effective air surveillance to hunt for US subs operating in SE Asia. Unlike Germany, Japan actually captured a major oil source (and rubber, tin, iron ore, bauxite, etc) yet couldn't sustain the supply line against the US which had the rubbish Mark 14 torpedo until mid '43.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
Dutch Diplomat: Delivers Declaration of War.
Japan: Rejects & Returns Declaration.
Morbid, but that’s absolutely *Golden* & beyond amusing! 😂
It is kinda funny yeah.
This is all really interesting, most histories present the Dutch government as passive after the German invasion. Btw who's to say an Indonesian uprising against a Japanese collaborationist government would have been put down? The Indonesian nationalists quickly proved to be effective fighters just a few years later and they probably would have had allied support in this scenario.
The nationalists took/got a lot of weapons from the japanese after those surrendered. Also, from what I understand in military sense the nationalists took a beating during the so-called 'policing actions'. It was political and economic pressure from the US, anti-colonial as they professed to be, caused negotiations to be opened that led to independence.
They would attack the dutch either way. They needed oil, they needed natural resources for their war machines.
I remember a train hostage in the 80's in the Netherlands. I didn't understood what was going on back then except the Dutch didn't uphold their promise. My grandma was adopted from Indonesia by a Dutch family. Till today at the age of 91 she still won't talk about what she experienced and what happened to her parents. Terrible times.
I did explain that in this video
ruclips.net/video/EjcNA06DSbI/видео.html
Gotta love the Imperial Japanese hats
🥈👍
Small colony picks fight with a large, proven army and ...... comes 3rd. What happened to Mr "Too Big For His Boots Look At How Many Names I have!", did he get carted off by the Japanese? Interesting to see you mention how Thailand threw it's hand in with Japan to save the rich, I live where the pink blob is over the border from Cambodia.
...and the dutch government in exile was ok with this apparently . What a shame. Tjongejonge wat een bende weer. Goede info. Dank. Groetjes
The Dutch should not have been in Indonesia it wasn't their country. But what the Japanese did was equally wrong and disgusting.
I agree.
hope you tell the story of HNLMS Abraham Crijnssen i never did get to hear the story when i was in college
Perhaps some day.
It was just a matter of time. You can not appease a militant faction bent on regional domination forever. Same as Germany.
Love your content! Where did you get that uniform?
Thanks. From reenactment. Out of stock now.
The Dutch East Indies could have been saved if the Dutch Colonial government agreed to mobilise people as requested by local representatives in the Volksraad. The proposal for a national mobilisation was rejected by the Governor General in 1937, and it really made the Dutch East Indies defence so vulnerable.
There was no way the Dutch could stay out of the war with Japan. The Netherlands were occupied by Germany and the Dutch government was allied to the Brits. The Dutch government (including the queen) was in London. Maybe the Dutch were a little trigger happy, but after the British declaration of war on 8 December 1941, there was no way the Dutch East Indies could stay out of the war. The surprising fact is not that the Dutch declared war on Japan, but that the Japanese thought that the Dutch could remain neutral in this conflict.
And if the Dutch would have made a deal with Japan, it is likely the US and Britain would have invaded to secure the oil instalations.
It probably was a mistake to have NL declaring war with Japan before the US and GB did . However Japan had already made the decision to ‘go south’ before Pearl Harbor attack and whether or not NL did a Vichy France at the Indies would not have make a difference on the outcome of the Indies including their eventual independence. On the other hand if NL government dared to double cross the Allies in 41 I can imagine Churchill and Roosevelt did something similar to or even worse than Mers El Kebir (Royal Navy sinking French navy in 40) to KNIL, Australia would have been severely threatened, the Allies’ victory in the Pacific would be slowed, and NL (at least the southern part of NL thanks to Market Garden) liberation by the Allies in 44 might not have happened. Post war European unity would also be affected. It is good to bring up this debate though.
What mistake?
Canada also declared war on Japan before the US and Britain. Doesn't mean that Canada's actions caused the war. Japan's actions did.
The war in the Pacific was caused by Japan's aggression not because of other nations placed embargos on them.
I understand. Do notice that Canada didn't have anything Japan wanted or was able to reach for.
@@HistoryHustle I was just saying so generally. Japan's actions were independent of what the other nations did. The Japanese were bringing war to East Asia one way or the other.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory
Day of deceit-the truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert B.Stinnett
Well, i understand your point of view, but as you told, at least 1 million of vietnamese died of starvation during the WWII even during "peace" period beetween Japan and French Vichy and when Japanese launch their "coup de force" it was a slaughter of europeans, and the war beetwen vietnamese (and some japanses soldiers and officers helped them) and french was terrible, and for french colonial troops, Diem Bien Phu was an heavy defeat... So this was not a good solution. Marc (France)
Indeed, Vietnam had much more war to come after 1945.
Hey another East Indies video I like it!
In 2 weeks the follow-up.
Whatever the reason the Indonesians swapped one colonial master for a far more brutal colonial master. You are forgetting the Indonesians here who were just a pawn in a game.
very intresting video.
👍
Another excellent video Stefan!
Maybe at a second thought, just like the Dutchies back in the west were first left out of the attack plan "Fall Gelb"
Yes.
Hmm, interesting assessment, Stefan. But:
1) Diplomatically we COULD NOT possibly settle on an agreement with Japan like the Vichy government had done so that they could start war on the British colonies. Because unlike the Vichy government we were already at war with the Axis (Germany) and we we're already allied to and deep in bed with the Brits. Vichy was in one block, we were in the other.
2) The Japanese WOULD be coming to get the Indonesian oil, because they had no other option. It was why they attacked Pearl Harbour.
War over Indonesia was unavoidable. So might as well be first to declare it if that makes for a good show to our Allies ...
Occupation of the Dutch East Indies was always part of Japan’s strategic goals and no amount of negotiation or appeasement would deny that. Unlike the French, the colonial government reported to the Dutch government in exile, so a “friendly” occupation like in French Indochina was off the table. Pearl Harbor, the Philippines, and Malaysia were attacked to allow the Japanese unfettered access to the East Indies.
“What if” scenarios are almost always fanciful and tend to ignore a critical element that would derail the argument (e.g. “what if Germany didn’t invade the Soviet Union?” Well, Hitler would have had to not be Hitler, because he talked about invading the east a lot). Here, an interesting scenario would be “what if the Japanese ignored Pearl Harbor, the Philippines, and British Malaysia and simply invaded the Dutch East Indies, trusting that the American people would have little interest in fighting for a European colonial power.”
Very good
From a certain point of view it's just trading 1 Colonial master for another.
Always interesting...thanks 🇦🇺
👍
The Dutch government was not in a position analogous to Vichy France. The French Parliament elected a government to negotiate terms with the Germans after being defeated (but not wholly occupied) by the Germans in battle. The Netherlands had been occupied without a negotiated surrender to the Germans. Vichy France could not start a new war with a member of the Axis without causing problems in their existing relationship with Germany. Similarly, with Japan wanting to maintain a good relationship with Germany (even if they weren't entirely in sync), they weren't going to treat French territory as simply up for grabs. Using it as a base to attack British colonies would not be so bad, because Britain was still at war with Germany.
Thanks for sharing your insights. Despite the difference it was very well possible for the Dutch to get the same deal as Vichy France. Yet, it clearly didn't want and that backfired.
you look very nice in your dutch uniform reminds me back in my boy scouts days
🫡
I live in Japan. Three things are generally known, now, about WW2, and all of them wholly tinged with a woe-is-me sense of whining victimhood and tenuous or invisible grasp on detail : Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and, occasionally, Pearl Harbour. Thirty million murdered Chinese ? Unmentionable. ‘ Provoked ‘ into war ? I’m never convinced by anyone who might claim that the wealth and bounty of their neighbours homes and possessions…’ provoked ‘…them into burgling it.
Interesting to read you live in Japan. The video is by no means a way to whitewash Japan's crimes. This is pure from a Dutch perspective regarding the Dutch interests of that time.
Cutting off 95% of a countries oil supply would be considered an act of war by any country on earth.
Millions of Indonesians perished before & after the Japanese invasion, due to harsh treatment by the Dutch actually. Number is much muuch much lower during the Japanese occupation, as the Japanese were more sympathetic to the Indonesians than the Dutch, even after WWII the Dutch didn't want to let go for Indonesia and many more perished.
Were the Dutch free to decide? Any hope of recovering their motherland was pinned on the goodwill of Churchill and Roosevelt. Could they avoid declaring war on Japan after Pearl Harbour? I think they couldn't.
Nice hats, originals? BZ
Posturing? Wilhelmina's proclamation:of war certainly was crafted to curry favor with the US president.
All repro. Except for my helmet I will show in 2 weeks.
Ah yes the Dutch Declaration of War on Japan. The first case of a dutchman smoking too much weed. 🥲
Lol.
6:45 it looks like some of the soldiers there are wearing masks? Could that be right, or is the picture just a bit vague?
Think the latter.
Hoi Stefan,
Thank you for this very insightful analysis. I think it is too easy for us to extrapolate the Netherlands society structure of today into the past. To do so would be to ignore the impact of colonialism on Dutch government and society. I'm guessing that the East Indies government was as populated by Colonel Blimps (Orwell's phrase) as were the British colonies. I suppose the government in exile who decided to fight the Japanese was dominated by royalty - all very nice proper people, but completely out of touch.
When you add to that the opinion of the time that the Japs were bow legged little inferiors who could not see or fight very well it is no surprise the decision was made to go to war.
I'm an enthusiast for counterfactual history, but in this case given the attitudes (and stupidity) of the Dutch colonial administration I don't think it could have gone any other way.
When I think of what the women and young girls especially had to endure... They should have imprisoned the governor and administrators after the war. They probably gave them medals instead.
Keep up the good work.
- Peter
This video serves a very important lesson to contemporary Indonesia and the Netherlands.
It’s pretty much an open secret that the US wishes to gang up with the Netherlands ( and to lesser extent, Indonesia) to contain China.
Moral of the story:
1. Don’t pick side
2. If you pick side, then pick the right side
3. It doesn’t pay to be a sacrificial lamb just for the sake of prestige. Pragmatism rules when it comes to threading the line between a very murky China-US relationship..
The Netherlands is a non-factor in the Pacific. Indonesia, Malaysia and all of China's neighbors already have territorial disputes with China. People are fast to pull the US card when it comes to China, but aside from Taiwan none of China's other disputes rely on the US.
Are you seriously suggesting the US is why China and India fought multiple wars and recently had a bloody border clash? Is the US why China annexed territory from Tajikistan in 2011, Kyrgyzstan in 2002 and Kazakhstan in 1998? Is the US why China claims to own all of the so-called South China Sea AKA Champa Sea? Is the US why China invaded the Soviet Far East in 1969 and Vietnam in 1979?
If we did deliver oil to Japan that time, and turned our back to the British- and USA government, we should be still suffering under the German Nazi regime right now.
Cornelis, the Netherlands.
That I dont know since Japan and Germany were barely working together. The channel The Front recently made a good video on that.
That is one scary scenario you painted there. Gelukkig maar. Luckily the 20th century ended very well for humanity given that facism and communism mostly disappeared in our world.
Please make an episode about the Belgian Expeditionary Corps in Russia
Very niche topic. I did over the Belgian Army in WW1 in two parts:
Part 1: ruclips.net/video/cS9dgLl0dwg/видео.html
Part 2: ruclips.net/video/NS1ncSLHTAk/видео.html
No,Oil,Oil,Oil
Its was only because the japanese did need the resourses
Please watch the video if you haven't.
Kind of a clickbaity title. America was the one that SORT OF provoked the war by enforcing such a harsh embargo on Japan and giving them no room to negotiate.
The Dutch at best could've maybe gotten a Vichy style deal and be occupied if they didn't put up a resistance?
Handing over their oil refineries unharmed would've definitely pissed off the Allies and helped the Japanese war effort.
The 30,000 Dutch casualties that could've been saved would've been at the expense of Americans and Commonwealth troops.
Thanks for sharing your insights. Indeed, I made it clickbaity..
@@HistoryHustle Good job, it's a very high quality video so it deserves a clickbait title :)
So before they called it "trade boycotts", and now they call it................ "sanctions".
History doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme a lot.
As far as 1941 goes, the Japanese needed oil, and the Japanese were going to take the oil, and the rest is academic.
Resisting or collaborating, the result is pretty much the same.
I don't like being shouted at
Ok.
Shouldn't Taiwan be orange?
Please explain.
i'm not saying we did good but still, if you look at what we did over the years unifying the islands and then when we had it all its was gone and after the independence they kept it unified it's sad to see and think about it but howell it's the modern day and it would probably happened anyway.
The U.S. didn’t declare war on anyone, they only excepted the invitations. When The Dutch moved their government to G.B. , they put themselves squarely in the camp of the allies.(even though the U.S. hadn’t officially joined) also, who really spoke,Royal Dutch Shell, British Petroleum ,Texaco and the Standard oil company. The RDS chief was pro-nazi but they ousted him when Hitler moved on the Netherlands , causing the half British half Dutch company to totally relocate to Britain.
@@Heike-- Richardson warned them not to put the fleet At Pearl, because of Taranto the CNO and AoF and their staff, would make that call to move the fleet , not the president .Kimmel and Short were both incompetent , they had been warned multiple times including the last on 12/01/41 that war war coming, and they weren’t ready , no radar and no flack batteries . Richardson was admiral of the pacific fleet when they transferred from San Diego to Pearl and Kimmel was his destroyer fleet admiral. So Kimmel as well as Short should have been aware of what Richardson was saying . How did he deliberately antagonize the Japanese, he had just been elected for an unprecedented third term, the voters wanted him.
What's next for you, are you going to make a video stating that America provoked the Japanese by stopping sale of oil and steel to Japan?
@@Heike-- let me get this straight. By your logic if someone doesn't sell you fuel oil or steel your going to break into some other store and kill and loot everything and call it justified?
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when u got USA brits and Australia backing you up u fell pretty big plus it was a racism point of view TBO ..that and prob Britain prob had some sort of leverage on the dutch u could say
Japan needed oil which Dutch had the most of in that area.
Japan was invading Dutch colonies no matter what.
I read the Japanese had no invasion plans or whatsoever. We would never know how history would've played out if the Dutch would continue shipping oil.
@@HistoryHustle Exactly. It is tempting to assume that a different initial decision would have improved the situation. As far as I'm concerned, the world in general got very lucky that we have not seen an all out nuclear war in the 20th century. Because of that I wouldn't really want anything to change in the past in the first place :)
Japan provoked it
Absolutuly true, if we are on the same school and i tell you to give me your lunch money or otherwise i will beat you up, who is provoking who in to a fight over your lunch money, if you, like you should, are attached to your lunch money in order to have lunch?
@@Heike-- wrong again comrade. Japan attacked on its own and attacked a lot more countries than the US and attacked china and Korea years before
@@Heike-- no Japan provoked it by attacking China and Korea and later Pearl Harbor. The US had every right to not do business with Japan just like Japan didn't do business with most countries for centuries
@@Heike-- I agree the gunboats diplomacy was wrong but the ussr Germany and Japan are to blame for wwii
The advantage of provoking this invasion was that less Japanese soldiers have been made available to fight elsewhere. Thanks the Dutch for their sacifice.
In 2 weeks an indepth study of this campaign.
Dang dude.
Looking at today's politic. You guys might have done the same mistake again against rusky by following the leadership of (you mention it).
It could be so scary to live in amsterdam nowadays (if you understand of what im talking about).
You guys should have been smart like austrian. Stay neutral.
It took the japs three months to conqueror the Dutch East Indies, the germans took five day to take over Holland
Do keep in mind Indonesia was much larger than the Netherlands. Soon a video on this campaign.
Well if you declare war on Japan and start sinking japanese ships the same day , and japan even not accepting the declaration of war . Hmm yeah you could say it did provoke the japanese in to invasion . as a neutral dutch east indies would be more beneficial than wasting resources on capturing and holding the region .
Braking the blockade from the americans was their primary goal , the japanese had quite good relations with both the brits and dutch and where alied with the brits for many years until the americans demanded they where no longer alied .
Thanks for your reply.
Oldfashioned colonial hubris. Up to the loss of our one and only seabattle under rear admiral Karel Doorman.
In hindshight, people tended to look more through a principled look at matters. One such matter was "don't give an inch to the Japs". Nowadays I would expect people would have a more pragmatical look, with a keener eye for the welfare of inhabitants. All that precious oil? The Japs never would never accept "no". They were determined to get it. One way or the other.
I wonder, given the intense submarine and air activity by the US in that area- how much of that oil actually reached Japan? Or for that matter the other natural resources taken by Japan during the war...