As a survivor of a knife attack who successfully disarmed and restrained my assailant without being injured, I have no idea how you defend yourself against someone with a knife when you're unarmed. I got lucky the first time, if there's a second, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
@@andrewtanczyk4009Either don't show up or carry a pistol........ or fight dirty, bottles, dirt, sticks on the ground ect........ I survived 4 knife attacks, was cut in all 4 of them........ lucky the idiots didn't really know what they were doing, or else I might not be here telling my tale.........
And I as a knife attack/defense study value your opinion from a place of experience over any keyboard warrior or bullshido artist. The man who's books i draw from was also a survivor he stabbed a dozen times and left to die in an alley only he didn't he got tough and would go on to create a very effective system his name now tied only to a combat knife he and his peer partially designed he would train commandos In his 50's and reportedly survive hundreds of altercations at the edge of a knife, a service pistol, and his bare hands in warlord era shanghai as a municipal police officer his body was reportedly covered in old wounds he never forgot what it was like to be assaulted with a knife spent his life teaching others to fight for life.
I've always said when it comes to knives the point in the point. Movie 'The mask of Zorro'; Zorro: "Do you know how to use that?" Murrieta: "Yes, the pointy end goes in the other man."
Don’t know many people that would walk around with a blade that large. Smaller blades are harder to disarm and the most common used blade in street attacks are cheap kitchen knives not the ones that cost lots of ££££$$$$. Good to hear disarms are BS, control/stick and disarm asap. Police reports show most knife attacks/ assaults only ONE person has a blade, the other is fighting for their life or doesn’t have the time to deploy their own blade. Obviously there are exceptions of this before everyone searches RUclips to prove this point wrong.
It’s very rare for two people to be carrying. Based on the reports i saw. Most victims are unarmed. There are numerous situations where deploying a blade is viable. The length of the wood blade is standard (4-5 inches) to what you would encounter and where the blade becomes more lethal. That length the disarms feel and work the same as the longer blade. Most of my training is on 4 inch blades. In acts of terrorism the first victim won’t have a chance to deploy but future ones will if they have a weapon. Again… more complicated than a simple answer
@@inside_fighting that’s why FMA seems to be a dualing based art. I suppose on a battlefield that would work, but in todays urban environments including all the pre-phase contacts, Dialogue and interview an attacker does to their intended victim deploying one’s own blade would be very low percentage. I’d like to see a comparison video on silat knife work and FMA. As a fan of both arts, Silat doesn’t seem to be as direct and to the point as FMA but happy to be educated on this topic🙏🏻
@@adam28171 if you have a blade sheathed at the hip you will have time to deploy… in the Philippines itself knife on knife fights are not as uncommon as western civilization. I personally always have a blade on me… sometimes two… and i can get it out quick. Filipino martial arts is often an in tight quick system and deploying is just as much a part of it as using it. I find fma knife fighting more modernized than the Silat I’ve done personally but I’m not a Silat expert
There are really no defensive moves that I've found effective. A hardcore, fast and sustained offense seems to be the best policy, until it isn't. You know what I mean
In some cultures larger blades than pocket knives are not uncommon. Even in the USA, Bowie knives and Arkansas Toothpicks were traditionally 15 inches or longer,
Thanks for the wonderful video! Having worked out with several Krav Maga grandmasters, they have always been shocked by my checking hand! FMA gives you the fluency to frame and manage distance with the checking hand and it’s absolutely a game changer! It’s amazing how many martial arts systems don’t understand the knife! Thank you for bringing this to more people! 🙏
In my utmost humble opinion. “ Nothing more rewarding than getting ones thesis validated by those who exceeds oneself in excellence” “Wisdom equates to correct comprehended knowledge appropriately applied” “ Fighting is relativity in motion, therefore never expect only respond as it one’s opponent within context that dictates tactics” What also many neglect to consider, is the overall physical/ psychological trauma that a knife cut/ slash/ stab will produce, such as: profuse bleeding, shock,nausea/ disorientation/ sensory depravation due to blood loss, as well as the overall horrifying visual factors as it’s beyond brutal in nature visually, and will most likely also severely debilitate mechanical functions of the limb that has been cut:sinew/ nerves/ ligaments/ connective tissue, all in an extremely short period of time, one cut or stab can change the outcome of the altercation in an instant, this is also why armor/ shields where a part of the overall weapon systems. “ Awareness equals avoidance, as proactive preparedness increases chances” “ There are no guarantees only opportunities, missed or taken” Learning a grappling art, paired with scenario training, accepting the reality and learning to choose between the lesser of two evils, ie continuing getting stabbed or try to control the weapon arm, i mean try; as at is easier said than done.. Weapons are equalizers and force multipliers for a reason, and they have been with man for aeons, so for all Martial artists, I humbly believe it is important to learn and comprehend as much as one can in regards to all aspects of combat, both armed, and unarmed, and train with these aspects in mind. An honor to be able to observe and learn from such a fellow peer as yourself. Sincere regards. Fellow Martial Artist. Tom Framnes. Norway.
As someone who has been stabbed and as someone who has watched someone die from a stab my life experience teaches me THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A KNIFE FIGHT there is only getting stabbed suddenly before you know....so approach every confrontation as if there is a possible knife, don't be a hero, West Side Story is a musical not real life, just get away at the first chance and always protect vitals until that opportunity.
While i empathize with your position and personal experience it is not reflective of a greater context of potential knife encounters and is akin to saying that there is no such thing as street self defense because someone was a victim of being hit behind the head when they were unprepared and unaware… My best friend growing up was stabbed in the liver and the lung in a stupid street fight… i know someone who was stabbed to death from behind… i have personally had knives pulled on me. I am not a stranger to knives There are numerous situations where a knife is “presented” and I’ve personally experienced them. 1. Acts of terrorism. 2. Domestic violence (often a weapon is presented before being used) 3. Road rage (posturing) And even in street fights that escalate (as we just saw with the metro stabbing where the 21 year old died after literally being dumb enough to chase a guy holding a knife)… Yes you want to get away And cover vitals… what will help you get away is extensive knife training including training with a shock knife and also many situational awareness drills… The notion that knife fights are crazy and dangerous and chaotic so there is no point training against them is the biggest misconception in modern day martial arts and would be akin to telling military not to bother drilling since wars are so chaotic and bullets are impossible to dodge and come out of nowhere and a bomb can go off and wipe you out. You still train for small statistical advantages. Additionally it’s rare for two armed people to engage each other which is why most attacks are an aggressor who is armed against a victim who isn’t… Part of what helps is being prepared and carrying a gun, mace, a knife etc and practicing deploying and engaging a threat over and ovver
I agree with what youre saying in this year old comment. My go to is a full size glock and a full size pick up truck. And maybe a 11.5” 556. But its kind of stupid to not train and at minimum… TRY to be better prepared for hand to hand combat.
I completely agree with you. Knives bring another layer of unpredictability. Indeed most people attacked with knife never realise there was a knife until afterwards. I feel that 99% of knofe defense is bs (also as someone attacked by a knife). From what I gather, best approach is grabbing a range weapon (chair) or there being more than one to subdue attacker.
@@inside_fighting You must be the most unluckiest person alive or you go to places you shouldn't be going. Most people haven't even been in a fight much less a "knife fight". All that effort to prepare for something really rare when makes better sense to train for likely scenarios as opposed rare ones.
@ezigwe he has lived places were it was common. South America it is pretty common in some places. Even in the US there cities were it is pretty bad. Did time as bouncer in a college town way more drunk brawls than you think
The three possible outcomes of a knife fight: 1) you're better than the other guy and he dies. 2) he's better than you and you die. 3) you are equally skilled and you both die.
You can be way better than the other guy and still you both die! If you get into a knife fight you are an idiot. You should have a gun, some mace, a long stick, almost anything better than trying to knife fight in close range unless you have the much longer knife.
Or you both suck, and still get whacked, because a fight is a fight, and a knife involved is a force multiplier, and doesn't care who, or what it stabs.
The knife in tight is to defend against strong longer weapons, quarterstaff, swords. With a space there isnt enough strength to block the momentum of their strikes when defending or closing. Of course you dont leave it there to attack. But it is also useful to punch and keep the attack envelope small, then deploy _once_ their propioception tells them you dont have reach, causing experienced people to misjudge distance and threat.
That way of holding the knife at the beginning is a Medieval/Renaissance way of holding the knife, typically long, straight daggers. It was done in order to defend against longer weapons and to forcefully stab through the thick, protective garments of the day. It worked for a particular time and place but the circumstances of modernity are totally different.
The rondel was also used periodically as a grappling weapon in ice pick due to its length it could be used to catch overhand with crossed wrists grasping the rear edge and brought down could break the wrist we see this somewhat replicated in fairbairns armed fighting when the wrist is grabbed to using the inner edge on a knife that cuts both ways to dissuade. Dagger dueling was present alongside germanic longsword treatise.
Many styles going back thousands of years use these holde, do not get cought up in fads of fashion. It is worth the time to practice more with a pistol.
It waa alsode that way becuase the best way to get through heavy armour were all from a grip that let you strike from a bove easy: eyes, gorget gap, shoulder gaps etc.
The problem with all these techniques are they are always done in a controlled situation. A real assailant isn’t gonna show the blade until the last second and they are 90% of the time gonna grab with the open hand and secure the target first- ala the sewing machine prison shank method. And none of the systems have a concrete answer for that.
Someone I knew with actual experience recommended jamming the shoulder to restrict those "sewing machine" attacks. His goal from there was to then get behind the attacker's shoulder where he could wrap up the opponent for a throw or his own counter attacks. He rightly called the type of assault you described as assassinations, with a 99% success rate.
@@chris.a8383 I didn’t say controlled environment. I said controlled situation. What I meant was cookie cutter completely telegraphed attacks that aren’t realistic. We obviously need to teach in the controlled environment, but eventually need to pressure test uncontrolled. We do it with sparing, why not knife fighting? Both Tribe 13 and Libre do uncontrolled but safe training that is realistic to a knife attack. At the end of the day, it’s a disservice to misrepresent to students, and a failure on the part of the instructor to grow if teaching and techniques don’t change to fit the attack. There was an amateur study on the internet 5 years ago that has since disappeared. It was based on 400 CCTV video knife attacks, and DOJ crime reporting. Over 80% of the knife attacks fit the profile of ambush, hidden blade, secure victim with free hand and sewing machine the blade. That was consistent with seasoned attackers and homeless know nothings. The most important take away was that the attacks followed a time/continued attack pattern where the attack slowed at 30 seconds, but if the victim quit, the attack picked back up and became even more brutal to the 1:30 mark. And all of the victims got stabbed, even the ones that successfully stopped the attack and were able to survive. Based off that alone, the defense techniques and pressure testing should be based on countering real attacks not controlled fluff.
very useful, informative and so common sense, this fb video you mentioned.. it shows how peaceful our life now in the 1st world is, so as people can create some wild and unrealistic theories around such basic things like killing people with stabby/slashy objects.
This is a perfect biggeners guide to edge weapons. Experience ones will value the information. The unwise comment troll maybe not. The untrained but willing to try will benefit tremendously here. Thanks for the honest instruction.
I spent a number of years trying to understand why others were so enamored with lupa. All I got was a headache and went back to figuring out women because it’s easier.
I understand your point. A knife fight will be bad either way and you will get cut or stabbed most likely, regardless of training, because, crap happens. I will say though after 20 years in service, private work after that and 40 years of martial arts, in general someone using a reverse grip is doing so because they are comfortable with it and are going to close distance and engage the opponent up close and personal, while the standard grip "usually" lends itself to slashing attacks and trying to keep some distance. This is not always the case of course but in general that tends to be the case. Love your channel and the info you put out.
Ive done a lot of wrestling and jui jitsu. Sparred a bit with medieval weapons. Not an expert, but not a newbie to combat systems. Ive always been most anxious about a knife fighter. Kinda had a general idea of some of this. Keeping distance, thrust/jab, etc. But what a great, all killer no filler, explanation of the ergonomics, pros cons, positions, and practical understanding of this. I definitely learned a lot. Thanks. Feel like i got a game plan to work with, that works with stuff I already know, just with some knife-specific tactics. That confidence in what to do in some ways is half the battle if i ever need it.
When i was trained in kali/escrima the instructor told the class that the most dangerous knife fighter is an untrained one because they are not going to follow a particular pattern.
Yup. Not like anyone who doesn't know your particular martial art would even know that pattern. And if the instructor says this, why u training? Eh eh. Reinforces my thought that Escrima is ritualised combat, like Capoeira, but based around sticks (like Maculele in Capoeira ah ah)
Very good video. I have heard many nonsensical statements about knife fighting as well. Even though I would never consider myself an expert, I have tested many of those BS theories in training and found them to be BS. The only real advantage to ice pick is hooking. I wouldn't consider that enough to choose it over blade forward.
As always, very both informative and entertaining video (regardless if it was really a response to a FB vid or just an excuse to torture Eli some more lol). I started training in martial arts 20 years ago (mainly Muay Thai, with 2 years of BJJ, on and off with boxing and a year of Savate), I had a roommate at the time who trained Escrima at NY Martial Arts Academy (who had one of the dog brothers as an instructor), and after seeing how lumped up he would be after sparring days was enough that I never pursued it. Cut to 6 years later and I move to South Africa where I've since known 2 people who've been mugged with Pangas (SA machete) and a neighbor who had his gardener killed with one during a robbery, so I eventually made time on two separate occasions to attend Craig Douglas run seminars on visits back to the US. I carry his push dagger (and usually CC a Glock 17) and learned a S-ton over those courses, but it's still awesome seeing how Philipino techniques are used and why. TLDR: Another dope video.
Thanks for giving a lot of useful info. Notice a lot of FMA practitioners(Balintawak, Doce Pares, PTK, etc...) are all adding Illustrisimo method to the training. Edgar Sulite was ahead of everyone by adding Illustrisimo aka KI to his LAMECO Eskrima. I'm 6'5" so I train both Saber and Ice pick. I hope to never be in a Knife fight.
The short time i trained with Tommy years ago privately was one of the best experiences in my martial arts journey and influenced my knife fighting a lot. I use both as well other than at range where i will always go to lead leg saber grip.
ive trained kali at home to a little succes as i have drilled live against untrained freinds and peformed dissarms but never felt comfortable with it as ive never had real lessons im about to start them as my new mma gym offers unique classes eg sambo and kali but really this video was beyond helpful it has really helped me nderstand the basic concepts more knife crime is a problem now in uk alot of my freinds have been on both sides of the knife and is what forced me to seek protection in martial arts as i did not want to carry and contribute to more hurt
Thank you I study fairbairns combatives pretty heavily there are a number of knife related systems meshed within it I have always tried to incorporate steyers, applegate, biddle's texts remaining close to the historic context. I study with Hemaists finding the saber and rondel fighting dagger mechanics translate over. While there are some uses for the ice pick grip I tend to emphasize the versatility of a foil grip in that fashion keeping the default blade sort of lateral to the ground tip presented tight in the workspace but facile as your showing. I want to keep the attacker at range, to slip using some of those in qaurtata thrusts essentially saber thrusts ready to withdraw stick break contact. My initial targets are always in accordance to this form going to be early in removing their fingers if presented putting blood in the eyes severing things that will greatly disrupt their fine motor control in the hand a thrust must be covered and setup fencers have a saying the art of combat is in the feign all combat is deception. To knife fight is to grapple I view these things as inseparable. Again thank you for dispelling the BS I've had people approach me and bring up the very same ice pick discussion declaring it to be the mark of expertise some lethality in ego. There is only one time I've seen that Mentioned it is within col.applegates kill or get killed it is outlined as a covert method walking past a man you essentially jam the blade upward into the kidney leaving it and continuing onward Never a contextual duel scenario the former OSS man who wrote it was openly critical of the ice pick form in the rest of that text and maintained those opinions in his post war retrospective to WW2 period knife tactics. Everything you said here in this video is on point straight lines and off switches not opening risks in an already very hopped up situation. All that bravado goes away when a man sees his fingers and his knife hit the floor with a flash of red to fight with the knife is to get down in the gutter there is no gentleman's conduct no facades no guarantees.
In the classic knife fighting book Michael Echanis wrote for special forces, he describes the forward grip as his entry technique, the reverse grip for "deep insertion" finishing moves.
Being 74 years old my first career was a a Respiratory Therapist which I started in 1971 when I was 21 years old . The Hospital I worked at had a contract with the city that we got automobile accident, and stabbing and gunshot injuries. Though gunshot wounds are bad unless they hit lungs or major arteries or veins or spinal cord they tend to be in and out injury’s. A knife or blade wound potentially causes much more damage especially if the blade travels inside of the body. If you have ever seen the damage that an arrow can do especially if a large broad head is used with razor edges . Spears, axes are another weapon that causes major injuries.
I train both ways. Doce pares is more ice grip than traditional even… i love been doing Kali 25 years… reverse grip at range when both knives can be presented is terrible. It’s only good close.
Having been stabbed in an arm with a butcher knife and was robbed at knifepoint to my stomach as others surrounded me, I've been 'aware' of knives and how to have the 'advantage' in my later years. This was a good video and I've seen many of them.
I will start walking around with a staff and tell that is for support walking. I'm not confident in a knife fight even knowing what to do. The staff will always give me better chances with anything besides a gun or sometimes a spear 😅. Thanks for the video. You are very informative and easy to understand.
My best teacher told me to report to Keiran for knife training. I got him a couple of times, but he stuck and slashed me 1,000 times before I got a possible turkey strut moment with a rubber knife. I really, really want to avoid a knife fight. I really, really don't want to fight. A double mocha, crossword puzzle and ink pen is about perfect. For real.
Years ago I had this same conversation after knife training. After a while I asked my friend if he was a Naruto (anime) fanatic. His eyes got real wide and we both laughed quite a bit. Reverse grip has its uses but in general has less advantages compared to "normal" grip.
Being able to apply both is the way to go. In a very tight spot reverse is much better. I wouldn't even say that it has less advantages. Knifes are most effective in grappling range but when you grapple reverse grip is better by magnitudes. You have to consider which muscles you're going to engage into your striking with reverse. They are much stronger which makes it easier for you to drive the blade into the bad guy. It's also better for disarming and hooking which flows into quick slashes that are also more powerful. It's great both when you want to go fully lethal or non lethal.
Gentlemen, very interesting. To my humble knowledge on knife fighting the forward grip is active , agressive while the reverse grip is passive, defensive (also confirmed by the witnesses). Your mixing it make it less digestible for beginners, at least. There should be a difference at least in three levels. Say: Passive- defensive, Semi-active -defense and limited offense and active- highly tactical ussing both approaches. What I really enjoyed were the explanations on open/ close hand positions and two handed approach, the boxing like movements and angular approach at close-in range. Beginners would appreciate review of the three levels highlighting the core ideas along withpresentation. . All the best.Paul, 68, retired isnstructor of Karate
HAAAA, Freakin LOVE the Opening Video Music, that was awesome! great video on knife fighting, thanks man, hopefully I can use these techniques in the coming apocalypse/SHTF situation, gonna get very very crazy out there!
My knife training was in the US Marine Corps. Much of what you do in this video, we were trained against doing. This was during the Vietnam Era. Our training was directly focused on certain parts of the body with repeated stabbing and twisting of the blade and diagonal cuts for the jugular. Once a Marine does his job, the enemy will die. We exclusively used kill moves. Our blade was always in one position within our hands. We never used fainting or confusing the enemy techniques which could lead to considerable damage to ourselves. We know that the more the enemy gets cut, the less he will want to stay in the fight. We know our objectives for instant or near instant kills. Our work was pretty cut and dry. Rare situations required instinctive moves but we were fully capable of that. We pretty much ignored the enemies techniques because we had lead objectives in knife or bayonet fighting. The simplest way to kill an enemy is the best way and easy to learn. Repetit ion over and over again plus top grade physical conditioning of the whole body along with learning how to feel no pain all worked together to produce a powerful and unstoppable Marine. In today's Corps, I do not know how much has changed. In the Old Corps that I was in, someone could use martial arts against us while we could use boxing techniques to overcome him or we could counter with martial arts designed especially for the Corps. All of what we used was direct and meant to kill. There was no sport at all. When we get out of the Corps we all tend to lock those things away and even lose fights because our skills are strictly meant for killing. Some will take up a sport style of fighting to keep the killing methods locked away. When we lose in a fight, it is usually because we refuse to open up the kill locker. This. Is one of many reasons that veterans have PTSD. The adrenaline rush is missing and even sport fighting can be dangerous if it gives an adrenaline rush. Adrenaline was a constant companion to a warrior and was highly addicting after getting over initial fears. Adrenaline rushes occur during sustained fighting. Nothing in civilian life compares to that kind of high that turns an ordinary man into a near superman. Our enemies and our civilian populace. Have no concept of the phenomena. Do not open a veteran's kill locker, you will not survive it. It looks as though you might be a veteran so you may know what I am saying. Your techniques are interesting but an old Corps Marine would be your worst nightmare even at 80 or. 90 years old. We were true professionals and there have been many changes to the Corps that has weakened the Corps very seriously and those who have enlisted. The discipline is not there anymore. Me and my buddies call them Marines in name only. I fear for this country if we have to have boots on the ground. This intentionally occurred under the liberal Democrat communists. We were warned about this and China during the Nam years and our leaders were right as these things are coming to pass..Remember to keep it simple, not fan !
Semper Fi and thanks for your service, Sir... Questions though... Doesn't the Crotch still issue rifles with that pointy thing on the front? Also, wouldn't you agree that the five-week boot camp turned out some Damned fine Marines for the real"(Old Corps)" and the only place one can learn Real and Effective combat training is...Well... Combat...So please don't criticize any Marine, be he or she a Forward Recon or Field Music on Mess duty until you have slogged ashore in his or her BoonDockers...That way you have a good head start and he or she will be chasing you barefoot...
Great lesson, brother. Thank you. Against a knife without a knife, use a gun or run. Or... keep in mind that the knife-strikes will be mostly toward the mid- or upper body, so you might kick the knee or shin, or stomp the foot, or kick the groin as your first defensive move. Meanwhile, get any object for protection (stick, rock, box, garbage can, etc.), or throw something from your pocket like keys to distract the opponent, then enter with attack to throat or eyes, or grapple/wrestle, etc. Rings or earrings can be prepared as weapons for emergencies, and neck-chains and necklaces can be used like nunchucks. (I thin. I don't really no nuthin lol.)
Having done various martial arts over the years including Krav Maga Kapap to junior instructor Incan safely say the level of information provided in this video is usually reserved for expensive seminars and instructor courses. Excellent tuition, clear understanding of the material. Well done.
Hej! Thank you for making interesting videos, I have a topic suggestion for you, that I think you could make an interesting video about. Given your background in Filipino martial arts, and Mauy Thai and Full contact karate, it would be interesting to hear your though on "fancy handwork" if you like, by which I mean trapping and using the hands to incapacitate, and 'block' blows during a real fight. All too often would get the impression that the anything other than kickboxing is not real and ‘bushido. I really liked the format of this video, because your expertise, passion, and knowledge shines through, and something similar would be interesting to cover the topic of trapping in real fight. I have 15 years of experience in different styles, and as such I am not hoping for an introduction to the topic, but rather to hear a sort of ‘video-essay’ with your opinions and thoughts, because what I am seeing is that the ‘Filipino martial arts” does not work, serves as a undermining of Martial arts and the benefits it has for people studying them - keeping in mind that Tai Chi and modern Taekwondo are great Martial arts, but I would not recommend them for self-defense.
I don't have a lot of training in knife fighting. My MCMAP instructor gave us a little bit of training, but the Marine Corps is rifle centric, so knife fighting was never a priority. Generally, the tip goes in front. If there is any part of you in front of your knife's point, you're missing the point of having a point. What little training I have was avidly insistent that I not treat an edged weapon like a bludgeoning weapon. The knife hand goes in front, and the knife is held in the forward grip with the edge out, by default. That being said, advising someone to run if someone is coming at them with a knife is probably good advice, regardless of how the knife is held, so the video the OP is responding to could be ironically correct.
Nice video! I wish you had addressed the sewing machine to the body! In my opinion this is the scariest scenario especially if your in a room or can’t run. My take on this is that the attacker will impose his will on you very strong and very quickly, and to add to it if he’s a bigger man. He’s not concerned what your going to do to him even if you have a knife. He could be hopped up on drugs! He could take a stab in the side or stomach and not even effect him much until later after he’s pumped the knife into your body several times like a sewing machine. If he’s all over you and all you got was one stab in him or nothing, he’s killing you!
The only instructor I had that knew how to knife fight was my first Arnis instructor who has now passed on. He was a retired constable that worked in Manila, many of his fellow constables were killed in street violence involving blade violence. He taught a simple direct style of Cinco Teros and could still do contact stick fighting against much younger men when he was over sixty. He had many scars on his body from bladed attacks. What has this guy done?
I like this how to the way interpretations of knife fighting in this channel & reminds me of that i had gone through from those Guros of Kali & Silat. Yea we would face different attackers with their size & what so ever weapon with them. But the most scary thing is some attackers just sneak attack when you are in the dark environment from every direction includes attack from the rear close range without any acknowledge. My guro Silat ever said that even we gone through armed & unarmed sparring in the dark room, its just the beginning forever. As what my Guro meant was thats depending the understanding the law of nature/environment & find the way to come out alive & survive. All skills you have been learn in Silat is just only to give you upper hand but the outside world is your real master. Then you begin to learn the nature itself that you can't find in any Silat & any martial arts schools.
First real rule of a knife fight if you actually have to engage: Are you wearing a belt? That’s basically a whip chain with more length and something hard to cut. Are you wearing a jacket? At least a shirt? Both? Make a surface which isn’t your skin that can make contact with the blade. Take your jacket (better) or shirt (better than nothing) off and wad them up to make a makeshift shield which can also be thrown over the knife to momentarily enable a safer chance at grappling (This is literally a technique in a medieval german fencing manual) The goal is almost to cast it like a net landing the center mass of the cloth on the tip of the blade so as to take the most effort possible to remove the cloth from the blade, also highly distorting the weight of the blade, making it harder to move as fluidly giving one a mere moment’s opportunity to grab the blade while it is covered with cloth, while also grabbing the wrist and prying the knife from the hand. The difficulty in knife disarming is that the best place on the knife to grab for leverage is the most dangerous part of the knife to touch: the blade. Throwing a cloth over the blade gives you a moment to grab the blade and basically re-sheath it so that you can wrestle for it.
After years of FMA I found 99% of the fancy stuff I learned I couldn't pull off under pressure. I learned a simple old school knife system from a guy who spent time in southeast Asia in the 50s and 60s and that's what I use most the time now.
@@inside_fighting I would like to occasionally see some more knife skill training videos. Dedicated videos to each category defense, offense, effectiveness, and different knife types that compliment. Also maybe different knife types that are more effective then others.
Did my IDF round 1995-1999, studied martial arts since I was 13 I must say the only advantage of holding a knife back is the concealment factor. Check Paul Vunaks knife fighting lesson , Myth number 2. Truth there's no defense for not fighting It's quick retractable goes all the way around you'll just miss yourself up trying to disarm. If you have a knife you can try to defend him if you're familiar with the three ranges of my fighting and you have a good footwork and good skill training. In real life, my G'lilon 5.56 mm did the work when but somebody charged with me with a knife. Knife is one of those things impossible to defend yourself close range fast cutting slicing stabbing even the novice with intermediate skill can mess you up. You better off using environmental items aka a rock to throw overwhelm opponent on your ways to attack.
Spent a number of years in prison. Where both knife fights and knife duels take place everyday. I have survived a dozen duels. And a few fights. There was not a lot of knife fighting instructions back then. I mainly survived because I was once a golden glove boxer. Today I would be dead meat. The main thing I learned from those bloody days is that a knife is not to be seen. Only felt. Eight times out of ten you will be slashed or stab before you discover the knife. Because it's nearly always a sneaky attack. So get used to fighting back having already been stabbed. Another thing I learned fast was to protect neck and wrists. Yep. A guy defanged the snake on my wrist. And I nearly bled out. So I started wearing leather wrist bracelets. Even wore a snazzy looking neck collar made of leather. Like a bulldog collar. And another thing that saved me many times is knowing bleeders and blockers. So I am not just blindly slashing and stabbing. I am making sure I do as much damage as possible and get away. I will either attack the veins and arteries. Bleeders. Or I will attack nerve bundles. Blockers. They paralyze. That was many years ago. And now in my seventies I still suffer ptsd big time. You never forget the look in the eyes of the man with a knife trying to kill you. You will never forget those eyes and that look.
Just a suggestion, but why don't you tell everyone what happened that made all these people mad at you in the first place? Then maybe we could just not do that...
The more techniques one learns, the longer it takes to choose one...Good manners and a favorable reputation often keeps one out of trouble, both in and out of the joint...
@@TheGhostOfSmedleyButler they were not mad at me. Prison is the ultimate predator and prey environment. Prison has an hierarchy. Men and women in prison fight for status in prison and many are willing to die for it. Respect. For instance. There's a word no prisoner would utter to another prisoner. That word was Bitch. That was a killing word in prison. The ultimate disrespect. The person called a bitch was expected by other prisoners to strap up and fight to the death. So both prisoners find a blind spot and go at it. You don't turn down a challenge either in prison or on the mean streets. So it has nothing to do with someone being mad at someone. Either you are predator or you are prey. And you will be treated accordingly.
I've been practicing Silat and Escrima since 1993 and Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi since 2008. I like practicing slow twisting and circling steps with blades. It nourishes my brain and I circulate my chi to stay healthy and massage my internal organs to stay soft and limber. The first thing I would teach someone is how to relax and root and circulate Qi. After relaxing, someone can learn basic Gong Fu!
Great video, this feels like the part of the Anarchist's Cookbook that talks about knife fighting, except it's not made by a 19 y.o who later regretted writing it, and the book then being called "innaccurate" of all the parts I'm not looking for, with nobody ever talking about what I *do* look for. My poitn being, great video Still a little sad the icepick grip isn't as good as the movies 😅
REMEMBER WHY THE NINJA USED DECEPTION TO WIN BEFORE THE BATTLE BEGINS LOOKING WEAKER POSITION THEN THEIR VICTIM THINKS THEY HAVE CONTROL TILL THE NINJA STARTS HIS ATTACK IN OFFENSE INSTEAD OF DEFENSE !...
Not wanting to be a wiseass here, nor am I looking to start an argument, but when I see a video such as this, I have to ask, "How much real, actual knife fighting against a live blade have YOU done?" Just like "street fighting" instructors, a person has no business teaching streetfighting or knife fighting if they have never done it. And yes, I've done both, for real. It's tempting to pass on knowledge attained from another as qualification for teaching, but unless it's knowledge gained through actual experience, it's false knowledge, and a serious disservice to your students.
I’ve done a lot of live blade training as well as shock knife training… and in retrospect i find live blade training idiotic and am lucky i just have some scars and nothing worse. I also don’t think someone has to go engage in knife fights to be a good teacher nor is it a reflection of whether they can knife fight or not… This reminds me of guys who get in a bunch of street fights claiming they can beat up anyone... I know lots of boxers and MMA fighters who haven't been in "street fights" who I would bet my life on in a street fighter over the guy who gets in them... I’ve also done a ton of full contact stick fighting as well… There is no physical way to engage in “daily live full contact knife fighting” So you do the best you can. I’ve also had numerous knives drawn on me in real life outside the gym fyi… Try and debate the argument in the video as oppose to creating a strawman
I used to practice a few cane fighting (french walking stick fighting). My teacher use to Say: Always the weapon between you and your opponnent. The stance, attack, défense, always the weapon between
In my first style of Kali I started with, we kept at largo range about 90% of the time. It got to the point I wanted to try other systems because it wasn't as "martial arts" as I hoped it would be. It's now that I have tried other systems and 3 years later that I find a lot of appreciation for the long range and "hand hunting". Definitely keeps you safer while still doing damage. However, time and place for everything. I like doing 1000 cuts to slow them down and soften them up, enough that I can get in and execute a technique. This bodes well for self defense situation of someone punching me, so I keep at range doing destructions, then I can move in to fight, takedown, etc. with a reduced risk of getting knocked out. A lot of controversy to what I just said, but you get the idea. Overall, I would rather carry a baton in my work bag and fight someone in a parking garage with "stick" against knife, using long range and hitting hands than any situation where I am in range of getting stabbed.
What do you think of the Fairbairn system? He is also a fan of keeping the knife moving constantly. Sure, it's "old and outdated", but knives haven't changed much.
The Fairbairn-Sikes method is still very much relevant. Honestly, the will to stab another human is the deciding factor in whether any of this stuff works or not.
Maybe there's a reason they call them "Martial Arts"...Maybe they belong in a museum...I was Off Duty once in my favorite bar, chatting up my future second Ex-Wife, when a woman came running in shouting "There's a knife fight in the parking lot" And of course everyone looked at me as if to say "WELL" The place hadn't seen any real violence since the Nixon Administration...So dumb, (Expletive Deleted) me walked out to the parking lot...And guess what...There was a knife fight in the parking lot...There were Five of them, hopping around like the road company from West Side Story...My first thought was, maybe they aren't through choosing sides yet as they are an odd number...My second thought was maybe this was a set up designed to make me look foolish...Either way, in for a penny, in for a pound...Soo...I flashed my badge at them and announced my Police Presence...At which point...the leader of either the Sharks or the Jets, it was hard to tell in the dim light...said are you really a Cop? which annoyed me as I had shinnied up my Buzzer with Brasso just last month...Feeling a bit like Jack Webb or Dudley Doright I produced my 7/8th inch barrel, five shot S and W model 36 revolver (With It's bobbed hammer spur) from its secret hiding place...Pointing it more or less at the Moon, I shouted "Is this real enough for Ya" at the still un-bloodied combatants who then threw down their knives and ran East bound on the street...I picked up the kitchen ware and gave chase to the next block, where a blue sedan containing several Japanese tourists had stopped to watch the American Kabuki Theater...I asked the folks if they had seen the escapees while I was standing there holding a bouquet of knives in my left hand and a sure enough American Hog Laig in my right... The tourists started furiously cranking up the windows and pointing in several different directions (They should have rented the car with power windows) Boy! did they have a story for Friends and Family When they got off Pan Am's red eye in Tokyo...Having been left in possession of the field of Valor, I declared myself the Victor and walked back to the saloon where I donated the knives to the kitchen staff and sat down on my still warm Bar stool wondering who had sat there, chatting up my future Ex-Wife while I was away being Manley. To this day. I'm not SURE what the Hell happened out there but set up or no..I couldn't buy a drink for myself at the Horse Brass Pub, 47th and Belmont for several days...
Oh hey you made the point I was thinking, range matters for grips (paused 13:18). Something that isn't getting covered is that the slashes you outlined as being limited earlier are also more non-committal and mobile in nature in a 1-versus-many situation. Imagine you are in a building where you have a knife and your goal is to escape. The slices that come with the icepick slashes while sidestepping and continuing a momentum are easier to manage than possibly actually stabbing your weapon, even on accident, and getting it lodged in one opponent when you need it free less than a second later.
I have almost 30 years of western martial arts experience, mostly orbiting rapier play. Range is critical. My forays into large and small knife fighting have mostly taught me that I don't want to.
the icepick grip has an advantage in case you don't want to use the knife, and than it just supports your fists. and the icepick grip also good in case you want to use more circular \ round movements with your entire body. now the question is why doing so, is a bit tricky, since it just better against an unarmed person, that you don't really want to hurt. in case you have some sort of shield, you will stand in regular grip within the rear hand and the shield in the front hand.
@3:00 who is doing this ever with a knife fight? And ended video on that.. lmao whose is ever doing that with a knife? No one ever such a impractical example ... Of obvious.. bullshitto
Foward grip is more agressiv and has more reach. No doubt about that. BUT, there's a time and place for reverse grip. As you said in the beginning, the situation is, attacker has the knife out and you have your knife out. Is that the most common situation? A classic duel? Maybe in your location but in my place, most of the times, reach don't matter cause the distance is like super super close. In fact, the reach has it's disadvantage cause it's harder to manouver. A classic knife duel is more or less kinda like fencing. That's just not what I've seen here.
Hey, really good video. I consider myself pretty experienced and not only do your teachings support the philosophy I've developed, but your theory is also really sound. Filipino is good stuff but I also noticed you seem to have a little FS gutter fighting system. Not sure if you trained in it or if the techniques were borrowed by their inventory from the arts you learned
Fiore has a whole section on the rondel that can be applied to knife, especially smaller blades that are common now, where slashing is ineffective and thrusting or ice pick stabbing is better. Even forget the edge completely and just use a Philips head screwdriver.
If you aren’t studying the hema sources to add to your weapons work you are doing yourself a grave disservice. I had no idea what I didn’t know and it’s all there for the taking, no special club, no “secrets”.
I totally agree that trying to disarm a moving blade is an absurd ask for all the movement that comes with a knife fighter that knows how to use it. I'm at 8:07 now and the perspective this video has is largely knife versus knife fighting, which in itself isn't a reasonable assumption. I suspect that whoever said to "run" versus a chambered ice pick grip was outlining a situation where somebody else has a knife in that position and you as the defender have nothing - in which case, I generally agree with "run." Going bare handed against a chambered ice pick does not afford a lot of ways to control the weapon arm without getting cut up in the process unless they are coming with a big overhead serial killer strike. Assuming the fight is not optional, the best course of action would be to find a weapon of your own to even the odds while running away.
I've never been in a knife fight, but do some training though it is down the list when compared to my physical fitness, firearms, bjj/grappling & muay thai. I work as a private security contractor & deal with a lot of homes people & many of those are addicts & or mentally ill. I am employ the General Mattis doctrine of “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” I treat every stranger I come into contact with as a potentially threat. When it comes to "knife fighting" I employ a KISS approach & use it to create distance to safely deploy my firearm or escape (if possible). Craig Douglas is spot on in this regard, & I like the more practical instruction offered by groups like Libre Fighting, or Medusa. Fancy knife work & knife fighting is for the martial artist not a war zone or the streets, just as Karate, Judo, BJJ etc have things you can effectively use on the streets it is crucial to seperate & train what will work in a high stress, life or death scenario vs what works in a controlled environment with a ruleset. So keeping it simple & train it is tge route I take. I really appreciate your videos as there is always either so etching even small I pick up or that gets me thinking. As we've seen in MMA the last few decades you should always be learning & adapting vs being stuck with a closed mindset
The icepick grip with the blade hugged to your forearm is how you carry a knife in a kitchen setting so as not to stab your co-workers especially when going around a corner lol.
So luck is on your side if there's a chance of having a hard elongated object, and hit the attacker if youre faster, or hit to disarm or de-arm if the attacker has drawn the weapon. Or simply use projectiles or run away. Best to pressure test things too with a ruler wrapped in pool noodle, rolled in dye/ink.
Only thing missed in this video is blade size. Blade size changes the the best place for blade. Long (7+ in blade) loke the silver is best in front becuase it is effective both offence and defence. The black knife is short enough to start being better in a rear hand grip. Trailing knife with empty hand in front have very useful applications, and very good number of confirmed kills in gang and prison fights. Folsom County knife fighting was a study on highly successful knife fighting techniques from actual fights and it lays out how, why and when to use a rear hand knife with a defensive empty lead hand.
There is a difference between knife fighting and knife killing. That ice pick edge out grip can be very effective against someone unarmed or holding a rifle.
@@alextop1850 panantukan and pangamot are the empty hand aspects. It’s so teacher dependent that I can’t give an exact style. Make sure to find a school that focuses on weapons (especially the blade) and open hand close quarter fighting
If you have good boxing eastern european foundations, and kendo battojutsu foundations of fighting you can learn how to knife fight preety easly. It becomes intuitive.
Ice pick seems pretty limited as far as grips go. I had someone walk up to my car using a hidden ice pick blade. I laughed and drove off. Nice video, thanks.
As a survivor of a knife attack who successfully disarmed and restrained my assailant without being injured, I have no idea how you defend yourself against someone with a knife when you're unarmed. I got lucky the first time, if there's a second, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
It’s so dependent on the circumstances and situation.
You got an angel looking out for you
Wow! Do you have any martial arts training?
That is the question how to defend yourself against someone who has a knife while you are disarmed.
@@andrewtanczyk4009Either don't show up or carry a pistol........ or fight dirty, bottles, dirt, sticks on the ground ect........ I survived 4 knife attacks, was cut in all 4 of them........ lucky the idiots didn't really know what they were doing, or else I might not be here telling my tale.........
And I as a knife attack/defense study value your opinion from a place of experience over any keyboard warrior or bullshido artist. The man who's books i draw from was also a survivor he stabbed a dozen times and left to die in an alley only he didn't he got tough and would go on to create a very effective system his name now tied only to a combat knife he and his peer partially designed he would train commandos In his 50's and reportedly survive hundreds of altercations at the edge of a knife, a service pistol, and his bare hands in warlord era shanghai as a municipal police officer his body was reportedly covered in old wounds he never forgot what it was like to be assaulted with a knife spent his life teaching others to fight for life.
“The loser of a knife fight often dies at the scene, and the winner often dies later in the hospital.”
S/He who dies last wins. Sad but true.
In the West perhaps
Facts
@@cherylsteenkamp7513 What a dumb comment
I've always said when it comes to knives the point in the point. Movie 'The mask of Zorro'; Zorro: "Do you know how to use that?" Murrieta: "Yes, the pointy end goes in the other man."
Don’t know many people that would walk around with a blade that large. Smaller blades are harder to disarm and the most common used blade in street attacks are cheap kitchen knives not the ones that cost lots of ££££$$$$. Good to hear disarms are BS, control/stick and disarm asap. Police reports show most knife attacks/ assaults only ONE person has a blade, the other is fighting for their life or doesn’t have the time to deploy their own blade. Obviously there are exceptions of this before everyone searches RUclips to prove this point wrong.
It’s very rare for two people to be carrying. Based on the reports i saw. Most victims are unarmed.
There are numerous situations where deploying a blade is viable.
The length of the wood blade is standard (4-5 inches) to what you would encounter and where the blade becomes more lethal. That length the disarms feel and work the same as the longer blade.
Most of my training is on 4 inch blades.
In acts of terrorism the first victim won’t have a chance to deploy but future ones will if they have a weapon.
Again… more complicated than a simple answer
@@inside_fighting that’s why FMA seems to be a dualing based art. I suppose on a battlefield that would work, but in todays urban environments including all the pre-phase contacts, Dialogue and interview an attacker does to their intended victim deploying one’s own blade would be very low percentage.
I’d like to see a comparison video on silat knife work and FMA. As a fan of both arts, Silat doesn’t seem to be as direct and to the point as FMA but happy to be educated on this topic🙏🏻
@@adam28171 if you have a blade sheathed at the hip you will have time to deploy… in the Philippines itself knife on knife fights are not as uncommon as western civilization.
I personally always have a blade on me… sometimes two… and i can get it out quick.
Filipino martial arts is often an in tight quick system and deploying is just as much a part of it as using it.
I find fma knife fighting more modernized than the Silat I’ve done personally but I’m not a Silat expert
There are really no defensive moves that I've found effective. A hardcore, fast and sustained offense seems to be the best policy, until it isn't. You know what I mean
In some cultures larger blades than pocket knives are not uncommon. Even in the USA, Bowie knives and Arkansas Toothpicks were traditionally 15 inches or longer,
Those who attacked you on social media probably just watched Under Siege and were hyped on adrenalin.🔪
Thanks for the wonderful video! Having worked out with several Krav Maga grandmasters, they have always been shocked by my checking hand! FMA gives you the fluency to frame and manage distance with the checking hand and it’s absolutely a game changer! It’s amazing how many martial arts systems don’t understand the knife! Thank you for bringing this to more people! 🙏
In my utmost humble opinion.
“ Nothing more rewarding than getting ones thesis validated by those who exceeds oneself in excellence”
“Wisdom equates to correct comprehended knowledge appropriately applied”
“ Fighting is relativity in motion, therefore never expect only respond as it one’s opponent within context that dictates tactics”
What also many neglect to consider, is the overall physical/ psychological trauma that a knife cut/ slash/ stab will produce, such as: profuse bleeding, shock,nausea/ disorientation/ sensory depravation due to blood loss, as well as the overall horrifying visual factors as it’s beyond brutal in nature visually, and will most likely also severely debilitate mechanical functions of the limb that has been cut:sinew/ nerves/ ligaments/ connective tissue, all in an extremely short period of time, one cut or stab can change the outcome of the altercation in an instant, this is also why armor/ shields where a part of the overall weapon systems.
“ Awareness equals avoidance, as proactive preparedness increases chances”
“ There are no guarantees only opportunities, missed or taken”
Learning a grappling art, paired with scenario training, accepting the reality and learning to choose between the lesser of two evils, ie continuing getting stabbed or try to control the weapon arm, i mean try; as at is easier said than done..
Weapons are equalizers and force multipliers for a reason, and they have been with man for aeons, so for all Martial artists, I humbly believe it is important to learn and comprehend as much as one can in regards to all aspects of combat, both armed, and unarmed, and train with these aspects in mind.
An honor to be able to observe and learn from such a fellow peer as yourself.
Sincere regards.
Fellow Martial Artist.
Tom Framnes.
Norway.
Thank you. The blade is an art in itself and one that makes you realize how fragile we actually are.
@@inside_fighting Indeed. 🙏🏻❤️
As someone who has been stabbed and as someone who has watched someone die from a stab my life experience teaches me THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A KNIFE FIGHT there is only getting stabbed suddenly before you know....so approach every confrontation as if there is a possible knife, don't be a hero, West Side Story is a musical not real life, just get away at the first chance and always protect vitals until that opportunity.
While i empathize with your position and personal experience it is not reflective of a greater context of potential knife encounters and is akin to saying that there is no such thing as street self defense because someone was a victim of being hit behind the head when they were unprepared and unaware…
My best friend growing up was stabbed in the liver and the lung in a stupid street fight… i know someone who was stabbed to death from behind… i have personally had knives pulled on me. I am not a stranger to knives
There are numerous situations where a knife is “presented” and I’ve personally experienced them.
1. Acts of terrorism.
2. Domestic violence (often a weapon is presented before being used)
3. Road rage (posturing)
And even in street fights that escalate (as we just saw with the metro stabbing where the 21 year old died after literally being dumb enough to chase a guy holding a knife)…
Yes you want to get away
And cover vitals… what will help you get away is extensive knife training including training with a shock knife and also many situational awareness drills…
The notion that knife fights are crazy and dangerous and chaotic so there is no point training against them is the biggest misconception in modern day martial arts and would be akin to telling military not to bother drilling since wars are so chaotic and bullets are impossible to dodge and come out of nowhere and a bomb can go off and wipe you out.
You still train for small statistical advantages.
Additionally it’s rare for two armed people to engage each other which is why most attacks are an aggressor who is armed against a victim who isn’t…
Part of what helps is being prepared and carrying a gun, mace, a knife etc and practicing deploying and engaging a threat over and ovver
I agree with what youre saying in this year old comment. My go to is a full size glock and a full size pick up truck. And maybe a 11.5” 556.
But its kind of stupid to not train and at minimum… TRY to be better prepared for hand to hand combat.
I completely agree with you. Knives bring another layer of unpredictability. Indeed most people attacked with knife never realise there was a knife until afterwards. I feel that 99% of knofe defense is bs (also as someone attacked by a knife). From what I gather, best approach is grabbing a range weapon (chair) or there being more than one to subdue attacker.
@@inside_fighting You must be the most unluckiest person alive or you go to places you shouldn't be going.
Most people haven't even been in a fight much less a "knife fight".
All that effort to prepare for something really rare when makes better sense to train for likely scenarios as opposed rare ones.
@ezigwe he has lived places were it was common. South America it is pretty common in some places. Even in the US there cities were it is pretty bad. Did time as bouncer in a college town way more drunk brawls than you think
The three possible outcomes of a knife fight: 1) you're better than the other guy and he dies. 2) he's better than you and you die. 3) you are equally skilled and you both die.
You can be way better than the other guy and still you both die! If you get into a knife fight you are an idiot. You should have a gun, some mace, a long stick, almost anything better than trying to knife fight in close range unless you have the much longer knife.
Or you both suck, and still get whacked, because a fight is a fight, and a knife involved is a force multiplier, and doesn't care who, or what it stabs.
@@wehrewulf Sounds like a lengthier way of saying what they said for option 3.
99% knife attacks and 01% knife fights.
The knife in tight is to defend against strong longer weapons, quarterstaff, swords. With a space there isnt enough strength to block the momentum of their strikes when defending or closing. Of course you dont leave it there to attack. But it is also useful to punch and keep the attack envelope small, then deploy _once_ their propioception tells them you dont have reach, causing experienced people to misjudge distance and threat.
That way of holding the knife at the beginning is a Medieval/Renaissance way of holding the knife, typically long, straight daggers. It was done in order to defend against longer weapons and to forcefully stab through the thick, protective garments of the day. It worked for a particular time and place but the circumstances of modernity are totally different.
The rondel was also used periodically as a grappling weapon in ice pick due to its length it could be used to catch overhand with crossed wrists grasping the rear edge and brought down could break the wrist we see this somewhat replicated in fairbairns armed fighting when the wrist is grabbed to using the inner edge on a knife that cuts both ways to dissuade. Dagger dueling was present alongside germanic longsword treatise.
Many styles going back thousands of years use these holde, do not get cought up in fads of fashion. It is worth the time to practice more with a pistol.
It waa alsode that way becuase the best way to get through heavy armour were all from a grip that let you strike from a bove easy: eyes, gorget gap, shoulder gaps etc.
The problem with all these techniques are they are always done in a controlled situation. A real assailant isn’t gonna show the blade until the last second and they are 90% of the time gonna grab with the open hand and secure the target first- ala the sewing machine prison shank method. And none of the systems have a concrete answer for that.
I have videos on it. Shorts as well on my IG and you are right it’s a very hard thing to defend.
Someone I knew with actual experience recommended jamming the shoulder to restrict those "sewing machine" attacks. His goal from there was to then get behind the attacker's shoulder where he could wrap up the opponent for a throw or his own counter attacks. He rightly called the type of assault you described as assassinations, with a 99% success rate.
All learning is done in a controlled environment, doesn't matter if it's edged weapons or firearms 😊
@@chris.a8383 I didn’t say controlled environment. I said controlled situation. What I meant was cookie cutter completely telegraphed attacks that aren’t realistic. We obviously need to teach in the controlled environment, but eventually need to pressure test uncontrolled. We do it with sparing, why not knife fighting?
Both Tribe 13 and Libre do uncontrolled but safe training that is realistic to a knife attack. At the end of the day, it’s a disservice to misrepresent to students, and a failure on the part of the instructor to grow if teaching and techniques don’t change to fit the attack.
There was an amateur study on the internet 5 years ago that has since disappeared. It was based on 400 CCTV video knife attacks, and DOJ crime reporting. Over 80% of the knife attacks fit the profile of ambush, hidden blade, secure victim with free hand and sewing machine the blade. That was consistent with seasoned attackers and homeless know nothings. The most important take away was that the attacks followed a time/continued attack pattern where the attack slowed at 30 seconds, but if the victim quit, the attack picked back up and became even more brutal to the 1:30 mark. And all of the victims got stabbed, even the ones that successfully stopped the attack and were able to survive. Based off that alone, the defense techniques and pressure testing should be based on countering real attacks not controlled fluff.
There is a counter for everything
Great vid. Finally someone realistic and with some sense. Respect.
Thank you 🙏🏼
very useful, informative and so common sense, this fb video you mentioned.. it shows how peaceful our life now in the 1st world is, so as people can create some wild and unrealistic theories around such basic things like killing people with stabby/slashy objects.
This is a perfect biggeners guide to edge weapons. Experience ones will value the information. The unwise comment troll maybe not. The untrained but willing to try will benefit tremendously here. Thanks for the honest instruction.
I spent a number of years trying to understand why others were so enamored with lupa. All I got was a headache and went back to figuring out women because it’s easier.
Joco...Sir... I take it you are not nor have ever been, Married...Congratulations...
@@TheGhostOfSmedleyButler Twice so far lol. I am admittedly stiff necked and somewhat low on intelligence.
I understand your point. A knife fight will be bad either way and you will get cut or stabbed most likely, regardless of training, because, crap happens. I will say though after 20 years in service, private work after that and 40 years of martial arts, in general someone using a reverse grip is doing so because they are comfortable with it and are going to close distance and engage the opponent up close and personal, while the standard grip "usually" lends itself to slashing attacks and trying to keep some distance. This is not always the case of course but in general that tends to be the case. Love your channel and the info you put out.
Ive done a lot of wrestling and jui jitsu. Sparred a bit with medieval weapons. Not an expert, but not a newbie to combat systems.
Ive always been most anxious about a knife fighter. Kinda had a general idea of some of this. Keeping distance, thrust/jab, etc.
But what a great, all killer no filler, explanation of the ergonomics, pros cons, positions, and practical understanding of this. I definitely learned a lot. Thanks. Feel like i got a game plan to work with, that works with stuff I already know, just with some knife-specific tactics. That confidence in what to do in some ways is half the battle if i ever need it.
When i was trained in kali/escrima the instructor told the class that the most dangerous knife fighter is an untrained one because they are not going to follow a particular pattern.
your instructor was fos. trained people are always MUCH faster, more balanced, aware and careful
Yup. Not like anyone who doesn't know your particular martial art would even know that pattern. And if the instructor says this, why u training? Eh eh. Reinforces my thought that Escrima is ritualised combat, like Capoeira, but based around sticks (like Maculele in Capoeira ah ah)
Very good video. I have heard many nonsensical statements about knife fighting as well. Even though I would never consider myself an expert, I have tested many of those BS theories in training and found them to be BS. The only real advantage to ice pick is hooking. I wouldn't consider that enough to choose it over blade forward.
As always, very both informative and entertaining video (regardless if it was really a response to a FB vid or just an excuse to torture Eli some more lol). I started training in martial arts 20 years ago (mainly Muay Thai, with 2 years of BJJ, on and off with boxing and a year of Savate), I had a roommate at the time who trained Escrima at NY Martial Arts Academy (who had one of the dog brothers as an instructor), and after seeing how lumped up he would be after sparring days was enough that I never pursued it. Cut to 6 years later and I move to South Africa where I've since known 2 people who've been mugged with Pangas (SA machete) and a neighbor who had his gardener killed with one during a robbery, so I eventually made time on two separate occasions to attend Craig Douglas run seminars on visits back to the US. I carry his push dagger (and usually CC a Glock 17) and learned a S-ton over those courses, but it's still awesome seeing how Philipino techniques are used and why. TLDR: Another dope video.
Appreciate that 🙏🏼 yea full contact stick fighting is harsh
Thanks for giving a lot of useful info. Notice a lot of FMA practitioners(Balintawak, Doce Pares, PTK, etc...) are all adding Illustrisimo method to the training. Edgar Sulite was ahead of everyone by adding Illustrisimo aka KI to his LAMECO Eskrima. I'm 6'5" so I train both Saber and Ice pick. I hope to never be in a Knife fight.
The short time i trained with Tommy years ago privately was one of the best experiences in my martial arts journey and influenced my knife fighting a lot.
I use both as well other than at range where i will always go to lead leg saber grip.
Knife collector and lifetime enthusiast here! It's amazing how well a little common sense and proper direction work! Subscribed!!! Great video btw...
ive trained kali at home to a little succes as i have drilled live against untrained freinds and peformed dissarms but never felt comfortable with it as ive never had real lessons im about to start them as my new mma gym offers unique classes eg sambo and kali but really this video was beyond helpful it has really helped me nderstand the basic concepts more knife crime is a problem now in uk alot of my freinds have been on both sides of the knife and is what forced me to seek protection in martial arts as i did not want to carry and contribute to more hurt
Thank you I study fairbairns combatives pretty heavily there are a number of knife related systems meshed within it I have always tried to incorporate steyers, applegate, biddle's texts remaining close to the historic context. I study with Hemaists finding the saber and rondel fighting dagger mechanics translate over. While there are some uses for the ice pick grip I tend to emphasize the versatility of a foil grip in that fashion keeping the default blade sort of lateral to the ground tip presented tight in the workspace but facile as your showing. I want to keep the attacker at range, to slip using some of those in qaurtata thrusts essentially saber thrusts ready to withdraw stick break contact. My initial targets are always in accordance to this form going to be early in removing their fingers if presented putting blood in the eyes severing things that will greatly disrupt their fine motor control in the hand a thrust must be covered and setup fencers have a saying the art of combat is in the feign all combat is deception. To knife fight is to grapple I view these things as inseparable. Again thank you for dispelling the BS I've had people approach me and bring up the very same ice pick discussion declaring it to be the mark of expertise some lethality in ego. There is only one time I've seen that Mentioned it is within col.applegates kill or get killed it is outlined as a covert method walking past a man you essentially jam the blade upward into the kidney leaving it and continuing onward Never a contextual duel scenario the former OSS man who wrote it was openly critical of the ice pick form in the rest of that text and maintained those opinions in his post war retrospective to WW2 period knife tactics. Everything you said here in this video is on point straight lines and off switches not opening risks in an already very hopped up situation. All that bravado goes away when a man sees his fingers and his knife hit the floor with a flash of red to fight with the knife is to get down in the gutter there is no gentleman's conduct no facades no guarantees.
Precisely! The feign is everything!
In the classic knife fighting book Michael Echanis wrote for special forces, he describes the forward grip as his entry technique, the reverse grip for "deep insertion" finishing moves.
Being 74 years old my first career was a a Respiratory Therapist which I started in 1971 when I was 21 years old . The Hospital I worked at had a contract with the city that we got automobile accident, and stabbing and gunshot injuries.
Though gunshot wounds are bad unless they hit lungs or major arteries or veins or spinal cord they tend to be in and out injury’s. A knife or blade wound potentially causes much more damage especially if the blade travels inside of the body. If you have ever seen the damage that an arrow can do especially if a large broad head is used with razor edges . Spears, axes are another weapon that causes major injuries.
Some points are good, others are ridiculous. Ice pick is just as dangerous. For you to train in Kali,15yrs in Kali we train both ways.
I train both ways. Doce pares is more ice grip than traditional even… i love been doing Kali 25 years… reverse grip at range when both knives can be presented is terrible. It’s only good close.
Having been stabbed in an arm with a butcher knife and was robbed at knifepoint to my stomach as others surrounded me, I've been 'aware' of knives and how to have the 'advantage' in my later years. This was a good video and I've seen many of them.
I will start walking around with a staff and tell that is for support walking. I'm not confident in a knife fight even knowing what to do. The staff will always give me better chances with anything besides a gun or sometimes a spear 😅.
Thanks for the video. You are very informative and easy to understand.
Boom!!!
My best teacher told me to report to Keiran for knife training.
I got him a couple of times, but he stuck and slashed me 1,000 times before I got a possible turkey strut moment with a rubber knife.
I really, really want to avoid a knife fight.
I really, really don't want to fight.
A double mocha, crossword puzzle and ink pen is about perfect.
For real.
Years ago I had this same conversation after knife training. After a while I asked my friend if he was a Naruto (anime) fanatic. His eyes got real wide and we both laughed quite a bit.
Reverse grip has its uses but in general has less advantages compared to "normal" grip.
Agreed and you can’t blame someone for loving reverse grip based on all the movies around it and anime 🤣
Being able to apply both is the way to go. In a very tight spot reverse is much better. I wouldn't even say that it has less advantages. Knifes are most effective in grappling range but when you grapple reverse grip is better by magnitudes. You have to consider which muscles you're going to engage into your striking with reverse. They are much stronger which makes it easier for you to drive the blade into the bad guy. It's also better for disarming and hooking which flows into quick slashes that are also more powerful.
It's great both when you want to go fully lethal or non lethal.
Gentlemen, very interesting.
To my humble knowledge on knife fighting the forward grip is active , agressive while the reverse grip is passive, defensive (also confirmed by the witnesses). Your mixing it make it less digestible for beginners, at least.
There should be a difference at least in three levels.
Say: Passive- defensive, Semi-active -defense and limited offense and active- highly tactical ussing both approaches. What I really enjoyed were the explanations on open/ close hand positions and two handed approach, the boxing like movements and angular approach at close-in range.
Beginners would appreciate review of the three levels highlighting the core ideas along withpresentation. . All the best.Paul, 68, retired isnstructor of Karate
HAAAA, Freakin LOVE the Opening Video Music, that was awesome! great video on knife fighting, thanks man, hopefully I can use these techniques in the coming apocalypse/SHTF situation, gonna get very very crazy out there!
One of the best channels out there, you deserve 100k+ subs
Your words have officially changed my style.
Thank you 🙏
9:45
I’d have to agree with you. Definitely better to have the regular stab and slash grip rather than the ice pick grip.
My knife training was in the US Marine Corps. Much of what you do in this video, we were trained against doing. This was during the Vietnam Era. Our training was directly focused on certain parts of the body with repeated stabbing and twisting of the blade and diagonal cuts for the jugular. Once a Marine does his job, the enemy will die. We exclusively used kill moves. Our blade was always in one position within our hands. We never used fainting or confusing the enemy techniques which could lead to considerable damage to ourselves. We know that the more the enemy gets cut, the less he will want to stay in the fight. We know our objectives for instant or near instant kills. Our work was pretty cut and dry. Rare situations required instinctive moves but we were fully capable of that. We pretty much ignored the enemies techniques because we had lead objectives in knife or bayonet fighting. The simplest way to kill an enemy is the best way and easy to learn. Repetit ion over and over again plus top grade physical conditioning of the whole body along with learning how to feel no pain all worked together to produce a powerful and unstoppable Marine. In today's Corps, I do not know how much has changed. In the Old Corps that I was in, someone could use martial arts against us while we could use boxing techniques to overcome him or we could counter with martial arts designed especially for the Corps. All of what we used was direct and meant to kill. There was no sport at all. When we get out of the Corps we all tend to lock those things away and even lose fights because our skills are strictly meant for killing. Some will take up a sport style of fighting to keep the killing methods locked away. When we lose in a fight, it is usually because we refuse to open up the kill locker. This. Is one of many reasons that veterans have PTSD. The adrenaline rush is missing and even sport fighting can be dangerous if it gives an adrenaline rush. Adrenaline was a constant companion to a warrior and was highly addicting after getting over initial fears. Adrenaline rushes occur during sustained fighting. Nothing in civilian life compares to that kind of high that turns an ordinary man into a near superman. Our enemies and our civilian populace. Have no concept of the phenomena. Do not open a veteran's kill locker, you will not survive it. It looks as though you might be a veteran so you may know what I am saying. Your techniques are interesting but an old Corps Marine would be your worst nightmare even at 80 or. 90 years old. We were true professionals and there have been many changes to the Corps that has weakened the Corps very seriously and those who have enlisted. The discipline is not there anymore. Me and my buddies call them Marines in name only. I fear for this country if we have to have boots on the ground. This intentionally occurred under the liberal Democrat communists. We were warned about this and China during the Nam years and our leaders were right as these things are coming to pass..Remember to keep it simple, not fan !
You have a lot to say don't you and then you also don't like Democrats😂😂😂😂😂 shut up
In WWII Filipinos ended up recruited to teach knife fighting to US troops. Their bolos were the model for blades like the airman's survival knife.
Semper Fi and thanks for your service, Sir... Questions though... Doesn't the Crotch still issue rifles with that pointy thing on the front? Also, wouldn't you agree that the five-week boot camp turned out some Damned fine Marines for the real"(Old Corps)" and the only place one can learn Real and Effective combat training is...Well... Combat...So please don't criticize any Marine, be he or she a Forward Recon or Field Music on Mess duty until you have slogged ashore in his or her BoonDockers...That way you have a good head start and he or she will be chasing you barefoot...
Great lesson, brother. Thank you.
Against a knife without a knife, use a gun or run. Or... keep in mind that the knife-strikes will be mostly toward the mid- or upper body, so you might kick the knee or shin, or stomp the foot, or kick the groin as your first defensive move. Meanwhile, get any object for protection (stick, rock, box, garbage can, etc.), or throw something from your pocket like keys to distract the opponent, then enter with attack to throat or eyes, or grapple/wrestle, etc. Rings or earrings can be prepared as weapons for emergencies, and neck-chains and necklaces can be used like nunchucks.
(I thin. I don't really no nuthin lol.)
By the way like I said I've been a follower of your content for a long time during exceptional talent keep up the good work
I need to hear Jim Carreys opinion on this.
Having done various martial arts over the years including Krav Maga Kapap to junior instructor Incan safely say the level of information provided in this video is usually reserved for expensive seminars and instructor courses. Excellent tuition, clear understanding of the material. Well done.
Hej! Thank you for making interesting videos, I have a topic suggestion for you, that I think you could make an interesting video about. Given your background in Filipino martial arts, and Mauy Thai and Full contact karate, it would be interesting to hear your though on "fancy handwork" if you like, by which I mean trapping and using the hands to incapacitate, and 'block' blows during a real fight. All too often would get the impression that the anything other than kickboxing is not real and ‘bushido. I really liked the format of this video, because your expertise, passion, and knowledge shines through, and something similar would be interesting to cover the topic of trapping in real fight. I have 15 years of experience in different styles, and as such I am not hoping for an introduction to the topic, but rather to hear a sort of ‘video-essay’ with your opinions and thoughts, because what I am seeing is that the ‘Filipino martial arts” does not work, serves as a undermining of Martial arts and the benefits it has for people studying them - keeping in mind that Tai Chi and modern Taekwondo are great Martial arts, but I would not recommend them for self-defense.
I don't have a lot of training in knife fighting. My MCMAP instructor gave us a little bit of training, but the Marine Corps is rifle centric, so knife fighting was never a priority. Generally, the tip goes in front. If there is any part of you in front of your knife's point, you're missing the point of having a point. What little training I have was avidly insistent that I not treat an edged weapon like a bludgeoning weapon. The knife hand goes in front, and the knife is held in the forward grip with the edge out, by default.
That being said, advising someone to run if someone is coming at them with a knife is probably good advice, regardless of how the knife is held, so the video the OP is responding to could be ironically correct.
This has been the most realistically informative video on knife handling I've seen so far. Thank you.👏❤️
That means a lot! Thanks
Nice video! I wish you had addressed the sewing machine to the body! In my opinion this is the scariest scenario especially if your in a room or can’t run.
My take on this is that the attacker will impose his will on you very strong and very quickly, and to add to it if he’s a bigger man. He’s not concerned what your going to do to him even if you have a knife. He could be hopped up on drugs! He could take a stab in the side or stomach and not even effect him much until later after he’s pumped the knife into your body several times like a sewing machine.
If he’s all over you and all you got was one stab in him or nothing, he’s killing you!
It’s the hardest thing to deal with. I touched on it very briefly but i didn’t want to get off topic
Ty 4 that explanation. I like how you said 2 keep the knife moving. I like the pattern you use.
The only instructor I had that knew how to knife fight was my first Arnis instructor who has now passed on. He was a retired constable that worked in Manila, many of his fellow constables were killed in street violence involving blade violence. He taught a simple direct style of Cinco Teros and could still do contact stick fighting against much younger men when he was over sixty. He had many scars on his body from bladed attacks. What has this guy done?
I’ve done a lot but congrats on the comment 👍🏽
Oh my God, that is the best intro ever hats off to who’s ever idea that was
I like this how to the way interpretations of knife fighting in this channel & reminds me of that i had gone through from those Guros of Kali & Silat. Yea we would face different attackers with their size & what so ever weapon with them. But the most scary thing is some attackers just sneak attack when you are in the dark environment from every direction includes attack from the rear close range without any acknowledge. My guro Silat ever said that even we gone through armed & unarmed sparring in the dark room, its just the beginning forever. As what my Guro meant was thats depending the understanding the law of nature/environment & find the way to come out alive & survive. All skills you have been learn in Silat is just only to give you upper hand but the outside world is your real master. Then you begin to learn the nature itself that you can't find in any Silat & any martial arts schools.
I saw undersiege, Steven Seagal used the reverse blade technique, so clearly that's the best way to hold a blade 😊
First real rule of a knife fight if you actually have to engage: Are you wearing a belt? That’s basically a whip chain with more length and something hard to cut.
Are you wearing a jacket? At least a shirt? Both? Make a surface which isn’t your skin that can make contact with the blade.
Take your jacket (better) or shirt (better than nothing) off and wad them up to make a makeshift shield which can also be thrown over the knife to momentarily enable a safer chance at grappling (This is literally a technique in a medieval german fencing manual)
The goal is almost to cast it like a net landing the center mass of the cloth on the tip of the blade so as to take the most effort possible to remove the cloth from the blade, also highly distorting the weight of the blade, making it harder to move as fluidly giving one a mere moment’s opportunity to grab the blade while it is covered with cloth, while also grabbing the wrist and prying the knife from the hand.
The difficulty in knife disarming is that the best place on the knife to grab for leverage is the most dangerous part of the knife to touch: the blade.
Throwing a cloth over the blade gives you a moment to grab the blade and basically re-sheath it so that you can wrestle for it.
wow! you are in the video. i thought you were someone else. ( i just commented on your street fight video some minutes ago about Portugal.)
I came for the knife fighting, I subscribed for the intro video!
❤ man... I have to honour my "old days" life before walking through the streets London to begin the METHODOLOGY
After years of FMA I found 99% of the fancy stuff I learned I couldn't pull off under pressure. I learned a simple old school knife system from a guy who spent time in southeast Asia in the 50s and 60s and that's what I use most the time now.
You can kill with either grip. Seen it done.
Very informative 👍 thank you.
Very welcome
@@inside_fighting I would like to occasionally see some more knife skill training videos. Dedicated videos to each category defense, offense, effectiveness, and different knife types that compliment. Also maybe different knife types that are more effective then others.
@@goldeneagle9761 sure i hope to make more videos like that!
Did my IDF round 1995-1999, studied martial arts since I was 13 I must say the only advantage of holding a knife back is the concealment factor. Check Paul Vunaks knife fighting lesson , Myth number 2. Truth there's no defense for not fighting It's quick retractable goes all the way around you'll just miss yourself up trying to disarm. If you have a knife you can try to defend him if you're familiar with the three ranges of my fighting and you have a good footwork and good skill training. In real life, my G'lilon 5.56 mm did the work when but somebody charged with me with a knife. Knife is one of those things impossible to defend yourself close range fast cutting slicing stabbing even the novice with intermediate skill can mess you up. You better off using environmental items aka a rock to throw overwhelm opponent on your ways to attack.
Thanks for not committing. Brilliant instruction.
Spent a number of years in prison. Where both knife fights and knife duels take place everyday. I have survived a dozen duels. And a few fights. There was not a lot of knife fighting instructions back then. I mainly survived because I was once a golden glove boxer. Today I would be dead meat. The main thing I learned from those bloody days is that a knife is not to be seen. Only felt. Eight times out of ten you will be slashed or stab before you discover the knife. Because it's nearly always a sneaky attack. So get used to fighting back having already been stabbed. Another thing I learned fast was to protect neck and wrists. Yep. A guy defanged the snake on my wrist. And I nearly bled out. So I started wearing leather wrist bracelets. Even wore a snazzy looking neck collar made of leather. Like a bulldog collar. And another thing that saved me many times is knowing bleeders and blockers. So I am not just blindly slashing and stabbing. I am making sure I do as much damage as possible and get away. I will either attack the veins and arteries. Bleeders. Or I will attack nerve bundles. Blockers. They paralyze. That was many years ago. And now in my seventies I still suffer ptsd big time. You never forget the look in the eyes of the man with a knife trying to kill you. You will never forget those eyes and that look.
Just a suggestion, but why don't you tell everyone what happened that made all these people mad at you in the first place? Then maybe we could just not do that...
The more techniques one learns, the longer it takes to choose one...Good manners and a favorable reputation often keeps one out of trouble, both in and out of the joint...
@@TheGhostOfSmedleyButler they were not mad at me. Prison is the ultimate predator and prey environment. Prison has an hierarchy. Men and women in prison fight for status in prison and many are willing to die for it. Respect. For instance. There's a word no prisoner would utter to another prisoner. That word was Bitch. That was a killing word in prison. The ultimate disrespect. The person called a bitch was expected by other prisoners to strap up and fight to the death. So both prisoners find a blind spot and go at it. You don't turn down a challenge either in prison or on the mean streets. So it has nothing to do with someone being mad at someone. Either you are predator or you are prey. And you will be treated accordingly.
Sir, you are absolutely my favorite martial arts channel. It’s probably because of your intro you tell no lie even kno lit bout Muay Thai 🙏🇺🇸☯️
The intro is the best thing i've seen so far
I've been practicing Silat and Escrima since 1993 and Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi since 2008. I like practicing slow twisting and circling steps with blades. It nourishes my brain and I circulate my chi to stay healthy and massage my internal organs to stay soft and limber.
The first thing I would teach someone is how to relax and root and circulate Qi. After relaxing, someone can learn basic Gong Fu!
Great video, this feels like the part of the Anarchist's Cookbook that talks about knife fighting, except it's not made by a 19 y.o who later regretted writing it, and the book then being called "innaccurate" of all the parts I'm not looking for, with nobody ever talking about what I *do* look for.
My poitn being, great video
Still a little sad the icepick grip isn't as good as the movies 😅
REMEMBER WHY THE NINJA USED DECEPTION TO WIN BEFORE THE BATTLE BEGINS LOOKING WEAKER POSITION THEN THEIR VICTIM THINKS THEY HAVE CONTROL TILL THE NINJA STARTS HIS ATTACK IN OFFENSE INSTEAD OF DEFENSE !...
Just like a magician using misdirection!
Not wanting to be a wiseass here, nor am I looking to start an argument, but when I see a video such as this, I have to ask, "How much real, actual knife fighting against a live blade have YOU done?" Just like "street fighting" instructors, a person has no business teaching streetfighting or knife fighting if they have never done it. And yes, I've done both, for real. It's tempting to pass on knowledge attained from another as qualification for teaching, but unless it's knowledge gained through actual experience, it's false knowledge, and a serious disservice to your students.
I’ve done a lot of live blade training as well as shock knife training… and in retrospect i find live blade training idiotic and am lucky i just have some scars and nothing worse.
I also don’t think someone has to go engage in knife fights to be a good teacher nor is it a reflection of whether they can knife fight or not… This reminds me of guys who get in a bunch of street fights claiming they can beat up anyone... I know lots of boxers and MMA fighters who haven't been in "street fights" who I would bet my life on in a street fighter over the guy who gets in them...
I’ve also done a ton of full contact stick fighting as well…
There is no physical way to engage in “daily live full contact knife fighting”
So you do the best you can.
I’ve also had numerous knives drawn on me in real life outside the gym fyi…
Try and debate the argument in the video as oppose to creating a strawman
Post a video of yourself knife fighting. Let’s see it
I used to practice a few cane fighting (french walking stick fighting). My teacher use to Say: Always the weapon between you and your opponnent. The stance, attack, défense, always the weapon between
In my first style of Kali I started with, we kept at largo range about 90% of the time. It got to the point I wanted to try other systems because it wasn't as "martial arts" as I hoped it would be. It's now that I have tried other systems and 3 years later that I find a lot of appreciation for the long range and "hand hunting". Definitely keeps you safer while still doing damage. However, time and place for everything. I like doing 1000 cuts to slow them down and soften them up, enough that I can get in and execute a technique. This bodes well for self defense situation of someone punching me, so I keep at range doing destructions, then I can move in to fight, takedown, etc. with a reduced risk of getting knocked out. A lot of controversy to what I just said, but you get the idea. Overall, I would rather carry a baton in my work bag and fight someone in a parking garage with "stick" against knife, using long range and hitting hands than any situation where I am in range of getting stabbed.
What do you think of the Fairbairn system? He is also a fan of keeping the knife moving constantly.
Sure, it's "old and outdated", but knives haven't changed much.
The Fairbairn-Sikes method is still very much relevant. Honestly, the will to stab another human is the deciding factor in whether any of this stuff works or not.
I very much agree with the comment that someone already replied tbh :)
And as you said. Knives haven’t changed much :)
As a fellow Doce Pares practitioner, thank you for your presentation!
"Fighting and martial arts aren't the same thing!" Mang Yuli
Maybe there's a reason they call them "Martial Arts"...Maybe they belong in a museum...I was Off Duty once in my favorite bar, chatting up my future second Ex-Wife, when a woman came running in shouting "There's a knife fight in the parking lot" And of course everyone looked at me as if to say "WELL" The place hadn't seen any real violence since the Nixon Administration...So dumb, (Expletive Deleted) me walked out to the parking lot...And guess what...There was a knife fight in the parking lot...There were Five of them, hopping around like the road company from West Side Story...My first thought was, maybe they aren't through choosing sides yet as they are an odd number...My second thought was maybe this was a set up designed to make me look foolish...Either way, in for a penny, in for a pound...Soo...I flashed my badge at them and announced my Police Presence...At which point...the leader of either the Sharks or the Jets, it was hard to tell in the dim light...said are you really a Cop? which annoyed me as I had shinnied up my Buzzer with Brasso just last month...Feeling a bit like Jack Webb or Dudley Doright I produced my 7/8th inch barrel, five shot S and W model 36 revolver (With It's bobbed hammer spur) from its secret hiding place...Pointing it more or less at the Moon, I shouted "Is this real enough for Ya" at the still un-bloodied combatants who then threw down their knives and ran East bound on the street...I picked up the kitchen ware and gave chase to the next block, where a blue sedan containing several Japanese tourists had stopped to watch the American Kabuki Theater...I asked the folks if they had seen the escapees while I was standing there holding a bouquet of knives in my left hand and a sure enough American Hog Laig in my right... The tourists started furiously cranking up the windows and pointing in several different directions (They should have rented the car with power windows) Boy! did they have a story for Friends and Family When they got off Pan Am's red eye in Tokyo...Having been left in possession of the field of Valor, I declared myself the Victor and walked back to the saloon where I donated the knives to the kitchen staff and sat down on my still warm Bar stool wondering who had sat there, chatting up my future Ex-Wife while I was away being Manley. To this day. I'm not SURE what the Hell happened out there but set up or no..I couldn't buy a drink for myself at the Horse Brass Pub, 47th and Belmont for several days...
@@TheGhostOfSmedleyButlerYou should be writing movies for Netflix 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Oh hey you made the point I was thinking, range matters for grips (paused 13:18). Something that isn't getting covered is that the slashes you outlined as being limited earlier are also more non-committal and mobile in nature in a 1-versus-many situation. Imagine you are in a building where you have a knife and your goal is to escape. The slices that come with the icepick slashes while sidestepping and continuing a momentum are easier to manage than possibly actually stabbing your weapon, even on accident, and getting it lodged in one opponent when you need it free less than a second later.
I have almost 30 years of western martial arts experience, mostly orbiting rapier play. Range is critical. My forays into large and small knife fighting have mostly taught me that I don't want to.
the icepick grip has an advantage in case you don't want to use the knife, and than it just supports your fists. and the icepick grip also good in case you want to use more circular \ round movements with your entire body. now the question is why doing so, is a bit tricky, since it just better against an unarmed person, that you don't really want to hurt. in case you have some sort of shield, you will stand in regular grip within the rear hand and the shield in the front hand.
Love that little intro song! 😂
@3:00 who is doing this ever with a knife fight? And ended video on that.. lmao whose is ever doing that with a knife? No one ever such a impractical example ... Of obvious.. bullshitto
Foward grip is more agressiv and has more reach. No doubt about that. BUT, there's a time and place for reverse grip.
As you said in the beginning, the situation is, attacker has the knife out and you have your knife out.
Is that the most common situation? A classic duel? Maybe in your location but in my place, most of the times, reach don't matter cause the distance is like super super close. In fact, the reach has it's disadvantage cause it's harder to manouver.
A classic knife duel is more or less kinda like fencing. That's just not what I've seen here.
Hey, really good video. I consider myself pretty experienced and not only do your teachings support the philosophy I've developed, but your theory is also really sound. Filipino is good stuff but I also noticed you seem to have a little FS gutter fighting system. Not sure if you trained in it or if the techniques were borrowed by their inventory from the arts you learned
As a person that lives in the UK, defence against a knife attack (as an unarmed person) would be a great video for you to do.
Im wondering if any principles of HEMA could be applied to knife fighting
absolutely elements of it could.
Fiore has a whole section on the rondel that can be applied to knife, especially smaller blades that are common now, where slashing is ineffective and thrusting or ice pick stabbing is better. Even forget the edge completely and just use a Philips head screwdriver.
If you aren’t studying the hema sources to add to your weapons work you are doing yourself a grave disservice. I had no idea what I didn’t know and it’s all there for the taking, no special club, no “secrets”.
I totally agree that trying to disarm a moving blade is an absurd ask for all the movement that comes with a knife fighter that knows how to use it. I'm at 8:07 now and the perspective this video has is largely knife versus knife fighting, which in itself isn't a reasonable assumption. I suspect that whoever said to "run" versus a chambered ice pick grip was outlining a situation where somebody else has a knife in that position and you as the defender have nothing - in which case, I generally agree with "run." Going bare handed against a chambered ice pick does not afford a lot of ways to control the weapon arm without getting cut up in the process unless they are coming with a big overhead serial killer strike. Assuming the fight is not optional, the best course of action would be to find a weapon of your own to even the odds while running away.
I've never been in a knife fight, but do some training though it is down the list when compared to my physical fitness, firearms, bjj/grappling & muay thai.
I work as a private security contractor & deal with a lot of homes people & many of those are addicts & or mentally ill.
I am employ the General Mattis doctrine of
“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
I treat every stranger I come into contact with as a potentially threat.
When it comes to "knife fighting" I employ a KISS approach & use it to create distance to safely deploy my firearm or escape (if possible). Craig Douglas is spot on in this regard, & I like the more practical instruction offered by groups like Libre Fighting, or Medusa. Fancy knife work & knife fighting is for the martial artist not a war zone or the streets, just as Karate, Judo, BJJ etc have things you can effectively use on the streets it is crucial to seperate & train what will work in a high stress, life or death scenario vs what works in a controlled environment with a ruleset.
So keeping it simple & train it is tge route I take.
I really appreciate your videos as there is always either so etching even small I pick up or that gets me thinking. As we've seen in MMA the last few decades you should always be learning & adapting vs being stuck with a closed mindset
The icepick grip with the blade hugged to your forearm is how you carry a knife in a kitchen setting so as not to stab your co-workers especially when going around a corner lol.
So luck is on your side if there's a chance of having a hard elongated object, and hit the attacker if youre faster, or hit to disarm or de-arm if the attacker has drawn the weapon. Or simply use projectiles or run away. Best to pressure test things too with a ruler wrapped in pool noodle, rolled in dye/ink.
Dang brotha! Is that a machete,.or a sword. Of course you have more reach. Eli here has a knife. Lol!! Good video though 👍 and very true.
That intro is amazing
Thank you. Some say i have the voice of an angel
Only thing missed in this video is blade size. Blade size changes the the best place for blade. Long (7+ in blade) loke the silver is best in front becuase it is effective both offence and defence. The black knife is short enough to start being better in a rear hand grip. Trailing knife with empty hand in front have very useful applications, and very good number of confirmed kills in gang and prison fights. Folsom County knife fighting was a study on highly successful knife fighting techniques from actual fights and it lays out how, why and when to use a rear hand knife with a defensive empty lead hand.
There is a difference between knife fighting and knife killing. That ice pick edge out grip can be very effective against someone unarmed or holding a rifle.
Great video, if you where getting sent to siberis prison with killer s and had to know one fighting system which one would it be ? Great vid
Filipino martial arts would be good because people create weapons in prison and multiple people attack you.
@@inside_fighting OK great which specific style and who is the best at that style is it empty hands , Hubud Lubud?
@@alextop1850 panantukan and pangamot are the empty hand aspects. It’s so teacher dependent that I can’t give an exact style. Make sure to find a school that focuses on weapons (especially the blade) and open hand close quarter fighting
@@inside_fighting which is the best school in the Philippines 🇵🇭 for this would you say?
"AI Bushcrafting" may have some possibilities.
The best way to confirm your knife (or whatever) grip is right is if you can strike from all 8 main directions effectively. With power.
"Everyone has a plan, untill they get stabbed in the face" Knife Stabson
Kali does have techniques with and against the blade gripped upside down but it is not the default or "superior" option.
The pointy end goes into the other man.
Dat Intro is gold
If you have good boxing eastern european foundations, and kendo battojutsu foundations of fighting you can learn how to knife fight preety easly. It becomes intuitive.
Ice pick seems pretty limited as far as grips go. I had someone walk up to my car using a hidden ice pick blade. I laughed and drove off. Nice video, thanks.
Even in the Harry Potter universe, using a reverse grip would probably lose you almost half of the spells from your arsenal. 😀
@@PanAthen 😂😂😂
So that's why Voldemort couldn't kill Harry
@@masongrainger2271 lmao! Probably 😀
Solid. Thank you.
Very welcome!