Woo, that was a long one but very good. Really like the run through. I’m sure there are stories lines I’ve wanted to know more about but can’t think of any. Maybe the difference with thanos wanting to court death in comics over mcu bringing balance, I love kael ngu cover art for the current daredevil comic…maybe how Electra becomes daredevil, Clea becoming sorcerer supreme though that’s a current story and not really what’s shown in MCP. With the midnight suns video game coming out I’ve been looking at magik more and her story….oh you could do the midnight suns original team up I guess or to tie into werewolf by night if Elsa and the suns team up.
Lots of great feedback there, and lots of really good stories. I’m actually dipping into Clea becoming Sorcerer Supreme, and I think the original Midnight Sons could be a great lore video too. I’ll pass it along and see what we come up with. 😁
Cyclops was bugged by Jean changing her clothes via her abilities NOT because he was being controlling, but because he was fearing her quickly growing powers and her darker tendencies. She just showed she can manipulate matter on a molecular level! Never has she been able to do that before. Then she holds back Scotts eye beams. Those beams are ridiculously powerful!!!! Unchecked, he could disintegrate her. He'd turn a huge mountain to rubble and lay waste to cities with the full visor open, something he rarely does. His visor helps him control this. Jean holding it back with seemingly NO effort would and should give anyone pause. Cut Scott a break being startled by this ;P OH! and Harry Leland (who controls matter density) was not killed by Wolverine, but nearly so. He returns far later, maybe a decade or two, and Wolverine nearly killing him was referenced. Wyngard/Mastermind also returns, even though Jean turned his mind to mush. Just goes to show how in comics it's uncommon to truly die permenatnly, but these two 'deaths' were among many that should have stayed that way.
Ha, yeah I was probably a little hard on Scott for the clothes thing. However, I’m pretty sure he had already seen her do it. I just found it a little bit petty that he cared so much about that particular thing. I definitely see where he was concerned when Jean messed with kitty Pryde’s parents minds. That was absolutely a moral issue along with the many other personality changes going on. I really liked that whole scene though. Jean and Scott finally connected, and seemed to be on the same page again. Good to know about Wolverine!
My literal most favorite and arguably one of the most influential story arcs in Marvel, in all comic history. To appreciate it you have to understand how weak Jean was in the 60's. I still wish they let Jean stay dead, but because Comics, they can't let chsracters go. The slow burn of her being corrupted though and it overwhelming her and the fact that she was so loved and her relationship with Scott was among the big ones at the time. Now it feels that most classic X-Men relationships are over (Colossus/Kitty Pride...sniff) in favor of changing directions of the characters. Scott's become a joke, Jean is unkillable and much of that makes looking back at this so sad. This was magnificent and most modern readers have no clue. All they know is the silly and unlikely relationship with Wolverine lol. Thanks for the memory road trip though!! Would be wonderful if they did this in the MCU one day, but it would have to unfold over many phases or it will be cheap and as silly as the Fox movie that failed at it...twice. and the MCU bastardized it the Multiverse of Madness and also did a poor job imho. The classic on the page is still the best iteration.
I really loved this story arc, and I’m really excited to read more X-Men. Totally agree with all your points except the Jean/Wolverine relationship. The fact that I love them together probably means I need some therapy 😂. However I have a new appreciation for Scott and Jean. Scott had a lot of growth during this saga, and I enjoyed his character. I felt a lot of empathy for him during those moments when he had to balance being a good leader with being a good friend, boyfriend, or student (his changing relationship with Prof X). I’ve also enjoyed getting to know some of the other characters like Colossus and Nightcrawler. They have become two of my favorites, and I knew next to nothing about them before reading this along with Days of Future Past.
Prof X being a jerk during the Lilandra vision time was mostly attributed to him being sleep deprived lol. Seriously. If you were waking up to nightmares all the time, you might be irritable too. I didn't make that up. That was an answer way back at a creation con, before Comicon was a thing ;P
Jean Grey on her own, even the modern version is NOT a match for Firelord and not even close to Thor, who has had upgrades before and after becoming unworthy, especially now. Imbued with the Phoenix Force though, anyone would be more than a match for either. Jean Grey during this story is more powerful than either, no question. Thor during AvX nearly destroyed Emma Frost, imbued with only a 5th of the Phoenix Force, who eventually defeated Thor (just barely), imho due to comics! lol. Thor vs Firelord, remember that a writer can make anyone win just serve their plot intentions. There were some wonky win/losses in that one, like Thing beating Namor in the water lol. Spiderman once defeated Firelord as another example lol. Thor has lost to characters weaker than him (holding back, outsmarted, etc) and won vs MANY who are on paper more powerful (endless list there lol). Jean Grey during this story arc was pushing the envelope of what the Phoenix Force's power was, which is on par and potentially rivalling Galactus. Modern Thor, with the Odin Force, and with the power of Gaia, would be a match for the Phoenix (he killed Galactus in Donny Cates recent run, though he was also imbued with a portion of the power cosmic), but overall, any charaacter who can host the Phoenix, is outrageously powerful, and Jean Grey has been noted to be THE perfect host. Should not surprise anyone that Phoenix Jean won vs Firelord.
Yes indeed. I think at the time her fighting Firelord, and winning, was a way to let the reader know how powerful she was as the Phoenix. At that point the Phoenix was still a mystery. I’m super jealous of anyone who read this the first time without any of the changes or the add-ons, and having no clue what was going to happen. What an impactful story!
Andy! How can you blame Cyclops?? LOL Jean WAS the victim. Nicki, I'm with you ;P Cyclops may have been written as a simp, but he truly loved her. There's a reason why the alternate story didn't get published originally. Many variants are pitched in writers rooms, and they hash it out. Cyclops was concerned about the power she was displaying and concerned it would take control of her...and he was right! If Nicki suddenly was imbued with cosmic power and started showing dark tendencies to the point you were worried that, your kids, your friends, maybe your world, were at risk, you might start to be uncomfortable...right? LOL. Mastermind was totally at fault, as was even the Phoenix Force itself. Jean was more responsible than Cyclops. I just don't get the hate for Scott. His character is so inconsistent over time, to be an extremely principled and amazing leader to someone who would lash out and betray all that defined him. I think over time Marvel just didn't know what to do with him. He was originally the X-Men's counterpart to Captain America, but that is just boring, so they wanted to change his character. Scott gets no respect, but in the end, he's usually right (He certainly was during Avengers vs X-Men!).
I will be the first to admit that I was not a Xmen reader from the beginning. 😁My run with Xmen started in 92, where the very first story line was Scott daydreaming about Psylocke in a bikini. That basically set the tone for Jean/Scott/Logan for me. There were very few storylines after that which highlighted a great bond between Scot and Jean - however there were plenty that show Jean and Logan. Fatal Attractions is one of the biggest in that era, and much later it would be Logan (not Scott) who would flip the hardest when Magneto killed Jean. However Jeans heart was always for Scott, just as it was in the DPS, so I do put a lot of pressure on him for her fall. You aren’t at all wrong with your comments, I do agree with them to a good degree, but ultimately I feel Scott let her down. 🤓
Woo, that was a long one but very good. Really like the run through. I’m sure there are stories lines I’ve wanted to know more about but can’t think of any. Maybe the difference with thanos wanting to court death in comics over mcu bringing balance, I love kael ngu cover art for the current daredevil comic…maybe how Electra becomes daredevil, Clea becoming sorcerer supreme though that’s a current story and not really what’s shown in MCP. With the midnight suns video game coming out I’ve been looking at magik more and her story….oh you could do the midnight suns original team up I guess or to tie into werewolf by night if Elsa and the suns team up.
Lots of great feedback there, and lots of really good stories. I’m actually dipping into Clea becoming Sorcerer Supreme, and I think the original Midnight Sons could be a great lore video too. I’ll pass it along and see what we come up with. 😁
Cyclops was bugged by Jean changing her clothes via her abilities NOT because he was being controlling, but because he was fearing her quickly growing powers and her darker tendencies. She just showed she can manipulate matter on a molecular level! Never has she been able to do that before. Then she holds back Scotts eye beams. Those beams are ridiculously powerful!!!! Unchecked, he could disintegrate her. He'd turn a huge mountain to rubble and lay waste to cities with the full visor open, something he rarely does. His visor helps him control this. Jean holding it back with seemingly NO effort would and should give anyone pause. Cut Scott a break being startled by this ;P OH! and Harry Leland (who controls matter density) was not killed by Wolverine, but nearly so. He returns far later, maybe a decade or two, and Wolverine nearly killing him was referenced. Wyngard/Mastermind also returns, even though Jean turned his mind to mush. Just goes to show how in comics it's uncommon to truly die permenatnly, but these two 'deaths' were among many that should have stayed that way.
Ha, yeah I was probably a little hard on Scott for the clothes thing. However, I’m pretty sure he had already seen her do it. I just found it a little bit petty that he cared so much about that particular thing. I definitely see where he was concerned when Jean messed with kitty Pryde’s parents minds. That was absolutely a moral issue along with the many other personality changes going on. I really liked that whole scene though. Jean and Scott finally connected, and seemed to be on the same page again.
Good to know about Wolverine!
My literal most favorite and arguably one of the most influential story arcs in Marvel, in all comic history. To appreciate it you have to understand how weak Jean was in the 60's. I still wish they let Jean stay dead, but because Comics, they can't let chsracters go. The slow burn of her being corrupted though and it overwhelming her and the fact that she was so loved and her relationship with Scott was among the big ones at the time. Now it feels that most classic X-Men relationships are over (Colossus/Kitty Pride...sniff) in favor of changing directions of the characters. Scott's become a joke, Jean is unkillable and much of that makes looking back at this so sad. This was magnificent and most modern readers have no clue. All they know is the silly and unlikely relationship with Wolverine lol. Thanks for the memory road trip though!! Would be wonderful if they did this in the MCU one day, but it would have to unfold over many phases or it will be cheap and as silly as the Fox movie that failed at it...twice. and the MCU bastardized it the Multiverse of Madness and also did a poor job imho. The classic on the page is still the best iteration.
I really loved this story arc, and I’m really excited to read more X-Men. Totally agree with all your points except the Jean/Wolverine relationship. The fact that I love them together probably means I need some therapy 😂. However I have a new appreciation for Scott and Jean. Scott had a lot of growth during this saga, and I enjoyed his character. I felt a lot of empathy for him during those moments when he had to balance being a good leader with being a good friend, boyfriend, or student (his changing relationship with Prof X). I’ve also enjoyed getting to know some of the other characters like Colossus and Nightcrawler. They have become two of my favorites, and I knew next to nothing about them before reading this along with Days of Future Past.
Prof X being a jerk during the Lilandra vision time was mostly attributed to him being sleep deprived lol. Seriously. If you were waking up to nightmares all the time, you might be irritable too. I didn't make that up. That was an answer way back at a creation con, before Comicon was a thing ;P
Oh wow! That actually makes a lot of sense!
Jean Grey on her own, even the modern version is NOT a match for Firelord and not even close to Thor, who has had upgrades before and after becoming unworthy, especially now. Imbued with the Phoenix Force though, anyone would be more than a match for either. Jean Grey during this story is more powerful than either, no question. Thor during AvX nearly destroyed Emma Frost, imbued with only a 5th of the Phoenix Force, who eventually defeated Thor (just barely), imho due to comics! lol. Thor vs Firelord, remember that a writer can make anyone win just serve their plot intentions. There were some wonky win/losses in that one, like Thing beating Namor in the water lol. Spiderman once defeated Firelord as another example lol. Thor has lost to characters weaker than him (holding back, outsmarted, etc) and won vs MANY who are on paper more powerful (endless list there lol). Jean Grey during this story arc was pushing the envelope of what the Phoenix Force's power was, which is on par and potentially rivalling Galactus. Modern Thor, with the Odin Force, and with the power of Gaia, would be a match for the Phoenix (he killed Galactus in Donny Cates recent run, though he was also imbued with a portion of the power cosmic), but overall, any charaacter who can host the Phoenix, is outrageously powerful, and Jean Grey has been noted to be THE perfect host. Should not surprise anyone that Phoenix Jean won vs Firelord.
Yes indeed. I think at the time her fighting Firelord, and winning, was a way to let the reader know how powerful she was as the Phoenix. At that point the Phoenix was still a mystery. I’m super jealous of anyone who read this the first time without any of the changes or the add-ons, and having no clue what was going to happen. What an impactful story!
Andy! How can you blame Cyclops?? LOL Jean WAS the victim. Nicki, I'm with you ;P Cyclops may have been written as a simp, but he truly loved her. There's a reason why the alternate story didn't get published originally. Many variants are pitched in writers rooms, and they hash it out. Cyclops was concerned about the power she was displaying and concerned it would take control of her...and he was right! If Nicki suddenly was imbued with cosmic power and started showing dark tendencies to the point you were worried that, your kids, your friends, maybe your world, were at risk, you might start to be uncomfortable...right? LOL. Mastermind was totally at fault, as was even the Phoenix Force itself. Jean was more responsible than Cyclops. I just don't get the hate for Scott. His character is so inconsistent over time, to be an extremely principled and amazing leader to someone who would lash out and betray all that defined him. I think over time Marvel just didn't know what to do with him. He was originally the X-Men's counterpart to Captain America, but that is just boring, so they wanted to change his character. Scott gets no respect, but in the end, he's usually right (He certainly was during Avengers vs X-Men!).
I will be the first to admit that I was not a Xmen reader from the beginning. 😁My run with Xmen started in 92, where the very first story line was Scott daydreaming about Psylocke in a bikini. That basically set the tone for Jean/Scott/Logan for me.
There were very few storylines after that which highlighted a great bond between Scot and Jean - however there were plenty that show Jean and Logan. Fatal Attractions is one of the biggest in that era, and much later it would be Logan (not Scott) who would flip the hardest when Magneto killed Jean.
However Jeans heart was always for Scott, just as it was in the DPS, so I do put a lot of pressure on him for her fall. You aren’t at all wrong with your comments, I do agree with them to a good degree, but ultimately I feel Scott let her down. 🤓