Joseph: I'm going to be the slickest chad this world has seen. Every woman will want my affection, but i will leave every single one an arms distance away. This is who I want to be. B) Rise: Hi, senpai~! Joseph: MY ENTIRE WORLD IS CRUMBLING TO DUST!!! SHE-DEVIL!!! TREMPTRESS!!! YOUR WICKED WILES ARE BREAKING MY STRUCTURE APART!!! WHERE IS YOUR PHONE NUMBER!!!
This part really broke this man: -Yosuke went from best to worst in the span of 2 hours and is now permanently benched. -He waited the whole game to play as Rise only to figure out that she's the new navigator. -He repeatedly joked around with Teddie only for Teddie to be the new party member. -Human Teddie. Genuinely feel bad for this man's suffering LOL
@@banditle6458Honestly? Yeah. Will play devil's advocate: Showcasing homophobia (and misogyny in his comments at Naoto) in a story is fine. It's important to recognize that it *is* a thing that happens, even today still. But Yosuke's a prime example of how to handle that with *little/no tact* in writing. Instead of it being a point of contention he can grow from, it's just a "gag" that's only funny to fellow homophobes, and conveniently stowed away when the main plot hits. Which would be fine for a douchebag antagonist character, but Yosuke's the *Bro Character.* Your *Partner.* The trusty guy at your side. It just sours his character for absolutely no point, and folks can't help but feel for Kanji in wanting him to shut up and move on.
@@NeutralL12 Yusuke didnt do it either, he said "don't come back here unless it's you alone to take me up on my offer, or I'll call the police" which is fairly justified atp
@@ryokiritani28"Sexual harassment is fine as long as the dude doing it is a funny quirky guy" Sure buddy okay how about you just stay away from women?
@@KingKuntaNAtor She just made a bad first impression on Joe when she first joined the team. Joe said that he liked her better as the game went on but he and chat already began meming her as worst girl, so he's kinda just comitting to the bit at this point.
I think the whole thing about Rise's shadow is her hating the fact that her idol career indirectly made her a sex icon. The anime explained this a lot better imo.
Shadows are affected by how the public perceives a person, hence why people that appear on tv has a shadow. In Rise's case its the price of being an idol.
@@DarthMizaru Nope, the Midnight Channel is affected by the public. And even then only the part that appears when nobody is inside the TV. After that it might shift the focus, but that's about it. The Shadow itself is only affected by its "owner". If that was not the case, Chie would not have had a Shadow in the first place, considering that she didn't even appear on the Midnight Channel and the public in general just didn't care about her. Also, the Shadow's are waaay more personal, like the public perception of Kanji was just a bit different.
@@floppydisksareop yes and no, Chie's shadow is also a result of her own perception, the thing about accepting the shadow is that we do in fact are a little bit how we are perceived. Yosuke only looking for himself, Kanji beint a bit bicurious, Yukiko wanting someone to take her away of her predestined life, etc.
@@DarthMizaru And how is this affected in any way by the public opinion of them? You argued that the Shadow is influenced by the public. I assume you base it on a couple of lines of dialogue from the endgame when they finally figure out how the Midnight Channel started and how it works. Yet this has nothing to do with the Midnight Channel, and Shadows are present in Persona 5 as well, where the Midnight Channel isn't even a thing to being with, and the God behind the game's events is not one representing any aspect of truth and doesn't care about it either. We know full well that a Shadow is a fragment of the Ego, as Igor tells us this directly when Teddy gets into the Velvet Room. As such, someone's "shadow self" is very much just a fragment of their ego that they are suppressing. In case of Chie, it's her jealousy of Yukiko, something that nobody really knows about at all. That is not public perception, that's the other "her". The Midnight Channel, on the other hand, brings into focus someone that's been on the public's mind specifically in Inaba. The accuracy varies based on the person that's watching. After they are inside the TV, it focuses on them even more clearly, but instead of just them, it focuses on the Shadow instead. However, at this point, the picture is fully clear, and it doesn't really depend on who is watching anymore, it stays consistent all the way through for everyone, whereas before it didn't.
Tbh that alone would have saved the scene for me. I don't expect all the characters to be perfect and flawless, but if I don't even have the choice to disagree with Yosuke, then it really just feels like the game is validating the shit he's saying
@@theninjagamer1the thing is that this is a by-product of Yosuke's romance route being cut out of the game. His attitude towards Kanji becomes a bit more understandable when you look at it from the perspective that he was struggling with romantic feelings towards his best bud
@@SomeAsian Eh, he's just a hormonal teenager who was brought up in a homophobic society. It seems weird to me that so many people hate him because of that.
@@sinsofthefather I think is mostly japanese culture, it just aged really bad, it is just a gag where Yosuke tells Kanji "are you really sure you ain't gay bro ?" It just didn't age well
@@Joan-jq5hobro skipped teenage years, it has some japanese cultural shenaningans(like sleeping in the same tent, basically applying the girls logics towards boys) 80% of male interactions between teenage boys is calling themselves gay and cursing for no reason. And it's not even 10yrs passed since i finished high school so it's not like i'm talking about teenagers from 2006
For anyone who doesn't know, Yosuke was actually intended to be a gay romantic interest. There's even some lines written where Yosuke kind of confesses his love to you and the english VA for Yosuke dubbed them as well. It was cut, of course, but it's interesting to think maybe some of what Yosuke does was meant to build up to him coming out? I don't know, it's just a thought. I'm sure there's a mod out there that might restore it
there's this mod that re adds a romance option, doesn't have voice acting though. ruclips.net/video/GQJOYUAtJX8/видео.html Yosuke's actual confession is rank 10 in the video by the way.
Yeah that way his homophobia is in turn can be read as projection / Internalized homophobia. Then again it can already be read as projection base on him being a perv around girls
I wanted to take the time to appreciate that you left in Joe's chat on homophobia and Yosuke's reaction! You didn't have to for the flow/structure of the series and yet you did anyway. You're the true Chadapon
I felt it was very necessary to keep in not just because of the Homophobia conversation (which is very important) but it also really informs the viewer of how he thinks of the characters in a more serious sense. Yosuke is probably one of the most active characters in Persona 4's story- so to have the viewer of this video series know how he thinks about it is important information to convey. Not to mention this incident really influences how he interprets Naoto's character later on in the stream.
@@izzy1356 im not saying that yosuke wasnt being unreasonable but im saying joe was addressing it in the least best way (and tbh saying lmao and adding a crying laughing face is the most insecure way to show that you arent laughing)
The asshole rating when he ate Nanako's flan. That is truly the most hilarious thing since he said he ain't gonna be an ass towards Nanako and Kanji. I love the edit.
I'm going to be honest, while Yosuke is one of my favorite characters in Persona 4, I can't deny that there are definitely some parts of the game where I want to slap him. Then again that's sort of a running trend for characters I like in Persona, there's always at least one part of the game where I get the urge to slap them
I had the exact same experience as Joe. Liked him at first, hated him by the half point. Kanji is such a good character, interesting, subtle, complex (his VA is also amazing, best one for me) that all the homophobic stuff thrown around, especially when it's made clear that he's not gay was super disturbing.
It’s like the writers saw the potential Yosuke romance line and went scrap that and make him an asshole halfway through :,) - unfortunately he’s still my favourite boy in the game XD I feel he has a middle break where he’s an ass and then he gives a bit more of a shit by the end
Thats generally true of everyone even in the real world. Even people that are good and people you like can say stupid stuff. Yosuke is a great character.
yosuke actually has a character arc throughout the game thats kinda hidden, if you keep going back and checking kanji dungeon, yosuke goes from making jokes to stopping throughout the game
42:14 Kinda. It's not that Rise hates her Risette persona, it's that she wants people to like who she really is rather than fawn over Risette. She just doesn't understand at this point that Risette is part of what makes Rise the person she is. Which is the point of her Social Link.
Years from now, there will be no life on earth. But, there will be two sounds that fight over the dusty wind. They are *Great Vegetables* Vs. *"It's because of Ose Jo"*
For those who are curious enervation lowers the stats of the enemy or ally suffering the ailment. Its basically that level lowering status ailment in Final Fantasy. The game does not make it obvious as you generally can't check your in game stats in battle.
The anime makes a lot of the awful scenes in this game so much better; sometimes, it's just "this goes by a thousand times faster", but often times it makes it actually funny. I was dreading seeing the trip again but it made the thing with Yosuke and Kanji in the tent into much more of an actual gag, so it goes from several minutes of just being uncomfortable to 40 seconds of actually being kind of funny. Narukami actually talking doesn't hurt.
I'm not sure I agree with that. The sub was fine to my recollection, but in the dub Narukami comes across as a homophobe himself. It feels less like a gag at that point and more like Yosuke's behavior is being condoned, given who Narukami arguably represents. If anything, I felt that made the scene worse.
I disagree, I thought it was even worse in the anime because Yu sided with Yosuke and encouraged Kanji to go to the girl's tent. Turning it into one big joke doesn't make it any better. Then there's also the blatant fatphobia with Hanako in that same episode... It sucked.
agree with that the scene is better in the anime. still not good, but its just way less aggravating watching yosuke being immature as he usually is and not literally "i am now going to imply that your sexuality makes you inherently predatory."
Dude this is so comfy to watch, I like the streams but they're really long so this is perfect for me, if u make something like this for persona 5 I'm watching it full
This is the first of your playthroughs I've watched so I've got no idea of your background, but I really really appreciated you taking the time to talk through your thoughts on yosuke's behavior during the camping trip and even though it didn't seem like you thought you were all that knowledgeable about all that you took the time to call the behavior out in a thoughtful way. The joy you have towards Kanji (especially the edit of him coming back from shopping with a colorful sewing kit) is so refreshing and it gives me life. Mad respect.
I know this was 6 months ago, but this video is an edited version of a lot of streams by Joseph Anderson, so the person who created this video isn't actually the one talking about Yosuke's behaviour, but rather, Joe is. Man of Answers just edited it, and I have to say, what a great editor they are. It's a shame that Joseph Anderson has never even seen these videos.
@@hoitem6500 I came to understand this shortly after I made this comment and started watching Joseph Anderson's personal channel. Your info was warranted but I do understand that now. :)
ok so like Yosuke at the beginning of development of P4 was such a good well rounded character he was actually smart, thoughtful, and genuinely caring but had his own flaws and short comings he was just a genuinely likable dude and then like all of the sudden the writers just decided to ruin his character. all of the sudden his character went from: thoughtful, funny, smart, caring, to homophobic horny douchebag and it wouldve worked well imo if they didnt COMPLETELY SCRAP HIS ROMANCE ROUTE which was supposed to explain all of his subtext and show his internalized homophobia and help him come to terms with himself. persona always has the same cookie cutter characters throughout every iteration and i think they just thought "oh shit! we forgot to add the horny male punching bag comedy relief character!!! shit lets just use Yosuke, we made him too likable to be a persona character anyways!"
I mean, Ryuji and Junpei weren't that bad by a long shot. Junpei is a great friend and doesn't make any advances towards feMC and values her friendship more. And Ryuji was the average male for the most part, possessing those negative traits but not being controlled by them, unlike Yosuke who walked off the boat and fell into the Mariana trench of horny.
i hate the camping trip so MUCHHHH its unreal. its so needlessly mean, like, towards everyone. the "are we going to be safe with you here" is especially heinous because of how unquestioned it goes. its just so extreme and out of nowhere, everything else yosuke says in regards to kanjis sexuality is still mean but much more so feels like jabs, like a joke a friend would make and not realize is hurtful but you can tell they werent being purposefully malicious. and i know its easy to say that i just need to be less sensitive, but like. ive gotten that in real life, as a bi guy. being seen as a predator just because. it hurts. it hurts watching characters you like echoing that sentiment completely unquestioned. suprisingly i enjoy this scene much more in the english dub of the anime, since its changed to be just more random jabs which quite frankly feels much more in character for yosuke. god. i dont know. its one of the few parts of persona 4 that i genuinely hate
Persona 4 is amazing when it wants to be. When it's NOT being amazing though, it is being terrible. Not even Ryuji getting whopped after Palace 7 for no reason even comes close to the camping trip here. Worst part of the camping trip and the equally terrible Amagi Inn scene is they have little to no plot relevance, it's just mean for no reason.
@@SomeAsian it still blows my mind that Ryuji getting beat up was going to be worse with Yusuke joining in to beat him, and potentially Joker, and was actually animated showing them beating him up. Sure Yosuke implying Kanji could potentially sexually assault the player and him is worse, no doubt but Ryuji getting his ass kicked for such a minor thing was just so fucking stupid it's a fairly close 2nd to me.
"Stripper" Rise is an exhibitionist and normal Rise never shows her REAL self to anyone, just her fake actress personality. She wants people to see her true naked self, without her public persona. Her real self has swapped with her persona so resents that persona to the point where it becomes a shadow. A mentally healthy Rise will wear her actor persona still, but will also express herself.
There is so much wrong with what you’ve said, I’m not sure correcting you will put you in the same galaxy of a notion of being right. The arc wasn’t about “exhibitionism”. It was about the meaning of one’s true self, the “real me”. Teddie’s meltdown doubles down on this theme, Rise’s free time events expand it. Are we watching the same game here?
@@yellowbirdie7182 No, you're just having trouble following me. Like for instance I say that Stripper Rise is an exhibitionist, which she is, of course, what is a stripper if not someone who shows herself off to people (that's what an exhibitionist is, btw). So you accuse me of thinking that the whole arc of the story is about exhibitionism? I'm assuming that either English is your second language (which is fine) or that maybe you're not understanding me because you take what the shadows say at face value. The Shadows AREN'T the "true self" at all. Your shadow self is sort of the you that you don't want anyone to see. It's your "hidden self" not your "true self". Rise has denied that part of her loves being on camera and being a star. As she runs from that part of her, it becomes a grotesque exaggeration of that desire. Remember when Yukiko wanted to be rescued and her shadow turned into a super-needy damsel? Once you embrace that hidden piece of your mind, you become whole and are able to use your brave public front (the Persona) to protect you. I'm not just making this up, it's based in Jungian psychology. The Shadow is a true part of who you are, but you are more than just what you hide from people. You are also your actions. If you are secretly greedy but always hide that part of yourself and are generous your whole life, the real you is a combination of those two things, you are a generous person with greedy compulsions. So long story short is that Rise is NOT just a weary shop girl who wants nothing to do with acting, nor is she just some unabashed attention seeker. The truth is in the middle. She WANTS to be an actress, and that IS part of her "real self" but so is the sweet shop girl from Inaba. To say she is not both of those things is to miss the point of the entire game. I hope that was informative and that I didn't waste my time.
1:07:31 can we just appreciate the fact that's something horrible happened to kanji mom and we got the most cheerful music going on at the same time and then what makes this even more perfect is Joseph in the background losing his mind
The world has changed so much since this game was written and while I can still appreciate it for what it was, it also makes me happy for how far these conversations have come.
Joe tearing into that moment was fuckin' good, man. I hate the slice-of-life stuff in P4 because of interactions like that. It's almost definitely a cultural thing, but I can't stand how these close friends fucking trash each other, don't trust each other, and just let horrible things go unsaid because it's supposed to be a joke.
And if you say you don't like how "certain" interactions are written (mostly involving Kanji and/or Yosuke), dudebros hit you with "Well the game is old/Japanese, stop enforcing your modern/western values on it," as if you're just never allowed to disagree with something because it came from another culture/decade I can enjoy 90% of the game while also acknowledging that 10% of it aged poorly. And Persona is kinda known for dropping the ball when it comes to writing (like in P5 when Ann's awakening is her rejecting Kamoshida's perception of her as a sexual object, only for the game to repeatedly sexualize her for jokes/fanservice moving forward). Persona has bad/inconsistent writing sometimes. We can admit that without defending/validating those bad writing decisions.
@@hannahw7023 big yes to all of this! im playing through persona 4 golden right now and quite frankly, the camping scene made me want to drop the game altogether. which sucks!! because i absolutely adored persona 5 royal, despite all its flaws. i really want to love 4, and i do love most of the characters and the setting is so charming! i just have this one big problem with it and it sucks. maybe i’ll put the game down and play 3 reload for a while instead.
I forgot about Yosuke scene and honestly I’m glad the girls pushed him off that ledge. I really wanted to do it myself. I wouldn’t have even put on the swimsuit and just left
I'm so happy to see someone else have the exact same experience with Yosuke : started as a real bro, then starting to be a thirsty annoyance to end up being a deliberate bigot asshole. Seeing that meter explode felt juuuuust right.
Yea because teenagers in the prime of their stupidity are to be judged for every single stupid thing they say, people nowadays, seriously. I hope the future generations judge our behaviour with the same exalted understanding and knowledge you seem to have, because we will surely come out of that fantastic.
@@KaiSaeren Friend, you might wanna draw a line between reality and fiction at some point. Yosuke is not a real teenager. He's the product of several adults writing up a character, and since every piece of art or media is political in essence, just ask yourself what does it tell you? That's it's okay to constantly belittle your "friends"? That the default mode you ought to take around gay people is defensive? Your comment might hold some water, if only Yosuke acknowledged and apologized for his behavior to Kanji and to a lesser extent Teddy. Which he doesn't. Not even in fan service content like the ski trip. Second, little buddy, is that contrary to what you seem to believe, tolerance is not the blind acceptance of anything is in front of you, but the acceptance of people and opinions you might find wrong. The difference between my original comment and yours is that I didn't attack people liking Yosuke, I described my experience and why I find him extremely badly written. Yours was just a personal attack for having a different opinion than you on a fictional character.
@@blackstab3913 And? Of course he isnt real and he is written by real adult people, as is everything else, why would Yosuke apologize to Teddie? He gives him home later on and Teddie puts him through hell. Why would he apologize to Kanji (tho he should later on) when Kanji doesnt have to apologize for his constant outbursts of anger? How convenient that its only the social issue of the moment that is offensive and wrong. Yosuke gets just as much shit as anyone else, he is actually the butt of most jokes, just because you dont find those as relevant is simply your preference. What it tells me that there is a double standard influenced by the current political and social terrain that people simply ignore. On top of that, even if it is written by adults, they cant write every character as an adult, they are meant to write characters as they would behave, according to their characteristics, according to their age, their ubringing etc., they sometimes behave stupidly, they sometimes belittle their friends, even good people are mean, thats what writing is. Avoiding topics or treating them in kid gloves can create its fair share of issues as well. Everything is only political if you look at it from those lenses, games have politics in them, they dont have to be political, Persona 4 certainly isnt, at least not to me. in any case, apologies if my comment insulted you, I could have worded it better, it was a spurr of a moment thing. However by the same token I can say that you actually are indirectly insulting people who like or understand Yusuke, saying he is poorly written is an opinion, saying that he ends up being a deliberate biggot asshole is simply judgmental. You can be offended by anything if you want, that doesnt neccessarily make it offensive. And in any case, this game was made in 2008, well released at that time. My point was that people 13 years in the future might see our, your, mine, everyone on the internet, behaviour as appaling, immoral and socially unnaceptable, you are judging a character from a game, writers of a game from 2008, its not pointless to look at it through lenses of today, but it should be to enjoy how far many people have come, not to tear it down needlessly. Than again, this is the internet, its made for people to express their opinions.
@@KaiSaeren I said "to an extent" with Teddy, and I won't elaborate cause this isn't furthering anyone's point. I'll give you this one thing : it's 2008 japanese game. Yet at the same time, Kanji and Naoto's inner struggles are astonishingly handled with sensibility and relatability (mind you that I'm a male hetero). You're pretty much arguing alone in the sense that you seem to wanna make me realize that my 2021's 28 yo ass despise 2008 Yosuke. Well I agree. Even if I was to make the argument that media should only be viewed as a product of their time, I simply humanly can't. I've rewatched "Scrubs" recently. That show made me laugh a lot back in the days, but rewatching last year made me cringe to no end, cause half the cast is giga sexist, toxic, emotionally abusive, but at the time, it was widely considered funny. Well it isn't anymore. Public shaming in middle ages where probably very funny for a lot of people. And no, you can't put words in my mouth and say "you insulted Yosuke fans", because I actually didn't, I just said how I viewed him, and to an extent, Atlus's writing team (let's not forget that Yosuke was at first supposed to be a closeted gay and they shifted at some point, making some of his scenes thematically... odd). Last thing is that you give me heat for seamingly "getting offended by Yosuke" while you are yourself getting offended cause I said that Yosuke is a biggot, which he arguably is and stays this way at every point in the game. So... I guess we're both special snowflakes that gets offended over nothing? I only replied cause your second comment was constructive and not emotional like the first one, but I'm just not up for debating this particular issue, as I've been too much already on Persona reddits. Hope my responses clears some stuff up and we both get something out of this Have a good one mate
Just so everyone knows, Enervation halved every stat of the target. Your 33 strength? It's now 16. Etc. It's actually one of the best ailments in the game.
Finally, Joseph and I share an opinion about Persona characters and the interactions we have with them! It's been long enough since I first played Golden that I don't remember how I felt about everyone the first play through, but going back to it, I always feel like there's not enough options and there should always just be an extra option of either asking Yosuke what the fuck is wrong with him, or telling him to shut up."
The bit with the guys in the tent always rubbed me the wrong way, it's a pretty common trope too in japanese media to use LGBT characters as punchlines like that, and the fact that Kanji's sexual preferences are never really cleared up from this point forward, so much that it's still a controversial point to this day, is the thing that I hate the most about P4. The anime is even worst at that, Protagonist and Yosuke are pretty much bullying Kanji for laughs in that scene, and those two are his only friends at that point too, it's just mean.
P4g is one of my favourite games, but they handled this topic awfully. They didnt do a great job with Naoto either, but at least they moved on and didnt go too far into a subject they can’t handle properly.
@@rickydevmj There's nothing wrong with ppl tsking issue with that scene. Chaacters like Yosuke can be flawed but The player is allowed he annoted especially when it assinates his character wnd perputates dumb stereotypes for seemingly no reason.
I really wish they would have put romanceable Yosuke in the game, because then at least he had a reason, albeit a still shitty one, to be the way he is with Kanji.
I find it funny how the recent P4 players complained a lot about Yosuke. Meanwhile years ago Yosuke was always shipped with the MC so much they even found a rumored deleted Yosuke route social link. Even the anime adaptation poked at that in many scenes. It's not that I find it bad, just funny. Also, Yosuke being an asshole is unfortunately one of the result of him accepting his shadow. I mean, his shadow is an asshole, he then accepted it, lol
I mean it's more just that some stuff aged HORRIBLY. And Honestly when you consider the cut romance route it makes it seem like he just had internalized homophobia but without it he seems like a dirtbag.
I think what Joseph brought up when he went on that tangent is probably the most accurate; considering Yosuke has been the most perverted Magician Arcana in the series, it does make sense that he has the mindset of "if a guy's with a bunch of girls, then he wants to smash." The amount of times he tries to devise plans to try and get women in his pants as WELL as asking the protagonist which girl he preferred kinda confirms this. The only other bit of defence I could offer in this devil's advocate comment is that he still likely has a lasting (albeit wrong) impression from the dungeon, due to how the shadow is meant to be a "reflection" I think that Kanji's arc on paper is good, as it's ok for someone to question their sexuality and say "I don't think I'm into guys after all." Even the whole "Yosuke is uncomfortable" bit would have worked, but the fact that they have three conversations of "I'm not really gay" and Yosuke's lack of apology, it really weighs down an otherwise great pair of characters
@@hilotakenaka I do think Kanji is gay, or Bi depending how you see the Naoto gender debate. But honestly I think he just wants Yosuke to stop attacking him over it. Yosukes micro aggressions do get old quick.
@@roseumbra4814 the... Naoto gender debate? Its not a debate. Naotos flat out a girl. She just pretended to be a guy so she would be respected as a detective, which is far from being like.. Transgender or anything.
@@roseumbra4814 I thought the term was "questioning." To me it seems like Kanji is bi or is into tomboys, as he's shown to enjoy the visual appearance of girls (which you can gleam from all the nosebleeds) whilst he likes the personality of men. That's why he's so vocal in trying to get Naoto into the beauty contest; he wanted to see if he truly did like girls despite how he was treated by them in the past. Also Naoto isn't trans, and the shadow's dialogue is more of an overflow of emotion rather than what she truly felt.
Personally, it's really interesting for me to watch him playing P4 after P5 when my exposure was the reverse. It's like our opinions are completely opposite each other lmao
its sucky that yosuke treats kanji like that especially when he most likely isn't even attracted to guys but given when the game came out and that it was made in japan mainly for japanese people makes it understandable why he acts that way, not acceptable but understandable given the circumstances
Like someone else said, the time period in this game, Yosuke's "homophobia" (or really just his discomfort with the idea, I'll explain why I think that) isn't really there out of Hate. During that time period, people were still really ignorant to the idea of being gay, and to the fact that it's normal. At the time, people's parents were really against it so it sort of rubbed off, but over time people started excepting it more. So it's not really like Yusuke hates Kanji for seeming gay, which yeah like you said i don't really think he's gay. Bi, at the extent, but really just confused about himself.
As a dude who was their age during the time this came out, yosuke’s way of thinking was not abnormal nor out of place. It was just around the time where it started to not be a taboo subject. It was legit homophobia not born of hatred but out of ignorance. We had boomers for parents who sheltered us from that kind of stuff so it wasn’t until we got into the world and meeting lgbt people that the phobia dissuaded and that it didn’t really matter who slept with who.
Idk I was openly homophobic up untill like... 7? That's due to the dad being a protestant believer and being homophobic and overall dumb even now. But when you start interacting with people in early school, you begin to understand the value of people without judging them for their preferences. Every single teenager in my class understood that when moving to the middle school. And I live in a part of world where gays still can't get married and as much as mentioning homosexuality near children will get you in jail. Yusuke is just a self-centered asshole who doesn't stop to think about people around him even for a second.
@@JoeticJustice yeah but they didn’t really let him “grow” out of that mindset. if they wanted to have a character act like that they shouldn’t have made it seem like it was okay to joke around like that or say some of the things he did. i’m sure a lot of the “jokes” yosuke said were said by the grown adults who, again, wrote him and they thought it was funny so they included them. idk, i just dont want to excuse the shitty things he said as him being a kid, because im sure that wasn’t the mindset they had while giving him some of those lines. although, i’m sure if they got called out for it they’d try to use that as an excuse, haha
@@isabellas5471 well I don’t know the writers besides what was provided, but I do know that if the case was just to make excuses for their personal opinions, they did a shit job because Kanji’s character easily over shines Yosuke’s instigating. Along with his interaction with the rest of the team commonly shutting him down on his impulsive behavior. And from a writing standpoint I would gamble that main plot line teams and side quest teams are entirely different writing squads (since Yukiko and literally 210ºs on their social link personality and main plot personality, yet the rest of the gang seem to carry a pretty strong thread between side and main), all in all it just wouldn’t make sense for the writers to use Yosuke as a filter for their personalities, especially since he continuously gets shut down throughout the game.
59:52 This reminds me of when someone online tried telling me that Ann and Joker banged in the Ferris wheel scene in P5. In public. In the brief span that the car was returning to the ground (which was made explicit in dialogue - the ride was almost over). With both of their eyes shut.
the yosuke dialog in the tent was most definitely a product of its time and was never meant to be taken so seriously as Kanji never addressed it again but that bring said, I 100% can see where yosuke the character would be coming from as a teenager who dosen't understand that kind of thing and is still learning how that stuff works and it really comes off as just teenage guy talk which is why I never really thought about it like that.
I agree to an extent. My only problem is that the protag never has the option to tell him that he is being rude or overreacting. I can accept characters having flaws and Yosuke not really understanding homosexuality. But forcing the protag to basically agree with him kinda makes it feel like the devs expect you, the player, to also agree with Yosuke, thus validating him. Seriously, I would be much more okay with the camp scene if the protag just had the option to be like "Wtf Yosuke." I don't even need Yosuke to change, tbh, I just want the game to acknowledge the fact that you don't have to agree with him. And the same goes for every time he harasses the girls. As much as I hate to see it, I'd be much more okay with it if you could at least call him a scumbag
Yosuke’s attitude towards Kanji is handled a little better in the anime, where his remarks aren’t just him making wild assumptions in the accusations based on Kanji’s supposed sexuality, so I’m glad they fixed that in the anime
i think jo missed the point of shadow selves, they are the person, just their emotions going haywire, everything the shadow feels is the truth is a comment i should have left on the last video because he half realises it during the rise fight
I've played through this game over 3 times now and I still can't tell if Yosuke's homophobia was a result of an unfinished "repressed feelings" arc or Atlus backpedaling way too hard in the other direction after canceling him as a romance option.
I loved Yosuke so much at 1st, he was smart, observent and ACTUALLY showed compassion and consideration for others but after Kanji joined the team he just went down hill for me turning into a bit of a perv and always bullying Kanji. Yosukes character would have been so well rounded with his originally intended romance rough had been kept in the game cause it explain WHY he was such a dick giving him room to grow and make amends but no they just chickened out and got rid of it and treated his homaphobic comments as a joke rather than what it actually was that being internalised homaphobia but without the romance rough yosuke is just an asshole. They done the same thing with Kanji and his sexuality, Kanji is not straight liking naoto befor he knew they were a girl and also telling the investigation team he thinks he may just be the type of dude who is never into girls but straight after him saying that him instead of having him be comfitable with his attraction to guys they start to make him deny it every chance he gets wich makes me so mad cause even with something that looked promising ATLUS rewind it turning his sexuality into a joke. It's so annoying how they try and make these complex characters but then back peddle
Rise's basically forced to be an Idol on TV where they have contracts to supress themselves, never say anything mildly vulgar and they can't even have boyfriends without the showrunner saying so. Idol contracts in Japan and ESPECIALLY Korea are horrible toxic situations.
God that Yosuke vs Yusuke graph is amazing so glad I found your channel Your editing skills are insane and they just keep getting better with each video!
I love these compilations, but if you ever do more, please lower the volume a bit on the "time paradox" clips, they're way louder than the actual video and it keeps making me jump lol
I'll be one of the first to say that the game absolutely massacred Yosuke's character after Yukiko's arc, but the excessive homophobia actually has a rational (albeit not much more palatable) explanation. For some reason, Japanese culture loves to perpetuate this notion that men are incapable of controlling themselves when they're alone with someone they may be sexually attracted to. Yosuke wasn't really insinuating that Kanji specifically would assault them, it's just the norm to assume that a guy would be tempted to something like that when sleeping next to someone they want to bang.
Theres a lot of homophobia in p4 and 5 but the tent scene is the only one that brings me down and makes me feel like shit. I wish they removed it in ports
Yep yep. And that's 13 years ago. I can definitely see it as more of a "people not really understanding it at the time" and also the "Parents probably talked about homosexuality in a bad light around him" kind of thing. It's definitely a product of the time and DEFINITELY doesn't do any favours for Yosuke. But it is somewhat understandable when you look a little into the climate of Japan at the time. I do apologize if I worded this in a weird way tho. I suck at typing out my thoughts.
@@buttsagonton101 Yeah I can accept the offensive humor. It aged poorly but it's a product of its time and the game overall is still great. But the thing I really cannot stand is dudes who get mad whenever someone calls out the camp scene and other poorly-aged jokes. Yes, I am aware that this is a 2011 game from Japan. But I can still disagree with its content. But so many dudes act like you aren't allowed to disagree with Yosuke. Instead of just saying "Yeah you're right, that scene aged poorly," they're like "Well it's an old game so stop forcing your modern morality onto it, you SJW snowflake."
Joseph: I'm going to be the slickest chad this world has seen. Every woman will want my affection, but i will leave every single one an arms distance away. This is who I want to be. B)
Rise: Hi, senpai~!
Joseph: MY ENTIRE WORLD IS CRUMBLING TO DUST!!! SHE-DEVIL!!! TREMPTRESS!!! YOUR WICKED WILES ARE BREAKING MY STRUCTURE APART!!! WHERE IS YOUR PHONE NUMBER!!!
It's all Osea's fault.
Burn Osea to the ground.
@@blapblapblapblap Osu
Joe-se
Ose
This part really broke this man:
-Yosuke went from best to worst in the span of 2 hours and is now permanently benched.
-He waited the whole game to play as Rise only to figure out that she's the new navigator.
-He repeatedly joked around with Teddie only for Teddie to be the new party member.
-Human Teddie.
Genuinely feel bad for this man's suffering LOL
And then to top it all off he discovers to his horror that he's a simp for Rise.
It's a shame too, Yosuke has SUCH a strong start but he's soooooo awful at times it's hard to ignore, he really got catfished on that one.
@@boanoah6362is it really shame tho?
@@banditle6458 yes, also considering some of his behavior could be explained if atlus kept his romance route in the game (he's DEEP in the closet)
@@banditle6458Honestly? Yeah.
Will play devil's advocate: Showcasing homophobia (and misogyny in his comments at Naoto) in a story is fine. It's important to recognize that it *is* a thing that happens, even today still.
But Yosuke's a prime example of how to handle that with *little/no tact* in writing. Instead of it being a point of contention he can grow from, it's just a "gag" that's only funny to fellow homophobes, and conveniently stowed away when the main plot hits.
Which would be fine for a douchebag antagonist character, but Yosuke's the *Bro Character.* Your *Partner.* The trusty guy at your side.
It just sours his character for absolutely no point, and folks can't help but feel for Kanji in wanting him to shut up and move on.
"Ill be an asshole to everyone except for Nanako, Kanji and Rise"
Sooo... A normal run, then.
it'd be a normal run if he were an asshole all the time to rise
its more of an
asshole simp run
Except for the Rise part
"I'll be an asshole to everyone except for Nanako, Kanji and Rise" -Joe, eating a tub of flan with someone else's name on it
@@locusmomus nonono
@@nebula8893 yesyesyes
yosuke sigma male grindset tip #78: harass your friend, eat his animal crackers and then blackmail girls into wearing swimsuits for you
This entire playthrough has shined a negative light on Yosuke that I was blind to previously.
@@TheTrueBrawler He was a product of his era. 2008 was a different time even for the US, not to mention the east.
@@tyrantworks9604 yeah, at least he didn't try to coerce one of the girls into sitting in front of him naked with threat of police
@@NeutralL12 Yusuke didnt do it either, he said "don't come back here unless it's you alone to take me up on my offer, or I'll call the police" which is fairly justified atp
@@ryokiritani28"Sexual harassment is fine as long as the dude doing it is a funny quirky guy"
Sure buddy okay how about you just stay away from women?
Joseph: *[Gets something or does something that's really good in the game]*
The chat: *_IT'S BECAUSE OF OSE, JOE._*
Joseph: does well in a social link.
The chat: IT'S BECAUSE OF OSE, JOE.
Simp Joe: I am a shadow, the true self...
Joe: NO THAT'S NOT ME.
@@ManOfAnswers Shadow Joe: *turns into a dragon with an anime shirt on*
@@archivist_13 seeing as though personas in 4 look like the shadow bosses, Joe would have a Fafnir as his persona.
Shadow Joe: God I want Rise to step on me.
Joe: What the fuck?
*Fight begins*
@@ManOfAnswers
Lol. He even *says* it too.
Bro hearing him say he missed Makoto fucking floored me
you know he's at rock bottom when he says he misses makoto
@@adachivineboom all hope truly was lost at that moment
@@adachivineboom not that I would ever doubt the great Adachi, but why do people hate Makoto?
@@KingKuntaNAtorCause she's USELESS
@@KingKuntaNAtor She just made a bad first impression on Joe when she first joined the team. Joe said that he liked her better as the game went on but he and chat already began meming her as worst girl, so he's kinda just comitting to the bit at this point.
The Sae slapping the table meme gets me every friggin' time fml
My favorite ome os the tangent with the cat-- "i want to fucking pet you waffles!"
The decline from Chad to Simp is hilarious. Great Compilation!
GREAT compilation.
great cumpilation (this made me cum 560 times)
I think the whole thing about Rise's shadow is her hating the fact that her idol career indirectly made her a sex icon. The anime explained this a lot better imo.
Who watches anime? Wierdos.
Shadows are affected by how the public perceives a person, hence why people that appear on tv has a shadow. In Rise's case its the price of being an idol.
@@DarthMizaru Nope, the Midnight Channel is affected by the public. And even then only the part that appears when nobody is inside the TV. After that it might shift the focus, but that's about it. The Shadow itself is only affected by its "owner". If that was not the case, Chie would not have had a Shadow in the first place, considering that she didn't even appear on the Midnight Channel and the public in general just didn't care about her. Also, the Shadow's are waaay more personal, like the public perception of Kanji was just a bit different.
@@floppydisksareop yes and no, Chie's shadow is also a result of her own perception, the thing about accepting the shadow is that we do in fact are a little bit how we are perceived. Yosuke only looking for himself, Kanji beint a bit bicurious, Yukiko wanting someone to take her away of her predestined life, etc.
@@DarthMizaru And how is this affected in any way by the public opinion of them? You argued that the Shadow is influenced by the public. I assume you base it on a couple of lines of dialogue from the endgame when they finally figure out how the Midnight Channel started and how it works. Yet this has nothing to do with the Midnight Channel, and Shadows are present in Persona 5 as well, where the Midnight Channel isn't even a thing to being with, and the God behind the game's events is not one representing any aspect of truth and doesn't care about it either.
We know full well that a Shadow is a fragment of the Ego, as Igor tells us this directly when Teddy gets into the Velvet Room. As such, someone's "shadow self" is very much just a fragment of their ego that they are suppressing. In case of Chie, it's her jealousy of Yukiko, something that nobody really knows about at all. That is not public perception, that's the other "her".
The Midnight Channel, on the other hand, brings into focus someone that's been on the public's mind specifically in Inaba. The accuracy varies based on the person that's watching. After they are inside the TV, it focuses on them even more clearly, but instead of just them, it focuses on the Shadow instead. However, at this point, the picture is fully clear, and it doesn't really depend on who is watching anymore, it stays consistent all the way through for everyone, whereas before it didn't.
The Yosuke meter exploding is AMAZING. What a godlike edit
The entire camp segment needed a "Yosuke, WTF is wrong with you?" dialogue option.
Tbh that alone would have saved the scene for me. I don't expect all the characters to be perfect and flawless, but if I don't even have the choice to disagree with Yosuke, then it really just feels like the game is validating the shit he's saying
@@hannahw7023 it was 2008 when the game was made so it wasn't that unsuprising once i saw kanji's midnight channel
@@theninjagamer1the thing is that this is a by-product of Yosuke's romance route being cut out of the game. His attitude towards Kanji becomes a bit more understandable when you look at it from the perspective that he was struggling with romantic feelings towards his best bud
Kanji is TEN TIMES the man yoskue will ever be
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Hey, king. You dropped this crown. Here ya go.
Why must we always compare bad bitches
Incorrect.
Kanji is one hundred times the man Yosuke could ever be.
@@SomeAsian Eh, he's just a hormonal teenager who was brought up in a homophobic society. It seems weird to me that so many people hate him because of that.
Waffles: "i dont think theyre gonna want to wear swimsuits"
Yosuke: "They will.......because of the implication"
Waffles: "Now you've said that word 'implication' a couple of times. What implication?"
Lol go watch “it’s always sunny in Inaba”
Nah this is more Adachi, bro was a misogynist and an attempted rapist. Yosuke harassed them, but he never fully assaulted anyone.
I found it funny Yosuke comments poking to Kanji preferences, while the dude had a whole romantic route planned but it was cancelled later
yeah, people say its because he was in the closet and probably had internalized homophobia(?)
@@sinsofthefather I think is mostly japanese culture, it just aged really bad, it is just a gag where Yosuke tells Kanji "are you really sure you ain't gay bro ?" It just didn't age well
@@sinsofthefatherI don't think the 40 yr old straight japanese men writing this game had any strong ideas on internalised homophobia
Right like I know what you are Yosuke Hanamura Persona 4
@@Joan-jq5hobro skipped teenage years, it has some japanese cultural shenaningans(like sleeping in the same tent, basically applying the girls logics towards boys) 80% of male interactions between teenage boys is calling themselves gay and cursing for no reason. And it's not even 10yrs passed since i finished high school so it's not like i'm talking about teenagers from 2006
For anyone who doesn't know, Yosuke was actually intended to be a gay romantic interest. There's even some lines written where Yosuke kind of confesses his love to you and the english VA for Yosuke dubbed them as well. It was cut, of course, but it's interesting to think maybe some of what Yosuke does was meant to build up to him coming out? I don't know, it's just a thought. I'm sure there's a mod out there that might restore it
there's this mod that re adds a romance option, doesn't have voice acting though. ruclips.net/video/GQJOYUAtJX8/видео.html Yosuke's actual confession is rank 10 in the video by the way.
Yeah that way his homophobia is in turn can be read as projection / Internalized homophobia. Then again it can already be read as projection base on him being a perv around girls
6:05 “Just be an asshole to everyone except Nanako, Kanji and Rise when she gets here.”
A few streams later:
(To Rise) “I’m miserable”
I wanted to take the time to appreciate that you left in Joe's chat on homophobia and Yosuke's reaction! You didn't have to for the flow/structure of the series and yet you did anyway. You're the true Chadapon
I felt it was very necessary to keep in not just because of the Homophobia conversation (which is very important) but it also really informs the viewer of how he thinks of the characters in a more serious sense. Yosuke is probably one of the most active characters in Persona 4's story- so to have the viewer of this video series know how he thinks about it is important information to convey. Not to mention this incident really influences how he interprets Naoto's character later on in the stream.
joseph's talk about yosuke's behavior during the camp scene is refreshing.
He literally started soying out, nothing refreshing about how he just started freaking out because old game doesnt align with his values
@@Mr_Peem “Soying out” lmao honey
@@Mr_Peem Lmao dude, even the other party members in this "old game" hated his behavior. 😂
@@izzy1356 im not saying that yosuke wasnt being unreasonable but im saying joe was addressing it in the least best way (and tbh saying lmao and adding a crying laughing face is the most insecure way to show that you arent laughing)
@@SevenFingerDiscount do you have a better word, babe?
The emotional turmoil he goes through with Rise is hilarious.
The asshole rating when he ate Nanako's flan. That is truly the most hilarious thing since he said he ain't gonna be an ass towards Nanako and Kanji. I love the edit.
I'm going to be honest, while Yosuke is one of my favorite characters in Persona 4, I can't deny that there are definitely some parts of the game where I want to slap him.
Then again that's sort of a running trend for characters I like in Persona, there's always at least one part of the game where I get the urge to slap them
I had the exact same experience as Joe. Liked him at first, hated him by the half point. Kanji is such a good character, interesting, subtle, complex (his VA is also amazing, best one for me) that all the homophobic stuff thrown around, especially when it's made clear that he's not gay was super disturbing.
It’s like the writers saw the potential Yosuke romance line and went scrap that and make him an asshole halfway through :,) - unfortunately he’s still my favourite boy in the game XD I feel he has a middle break where he’s an ass and then he gives a bit more of a shit by the end
I think it's an honest depiction of a insecure teenage boy
Thats generally true of everyone even in the real world. Even people that are good and people you like can say stupid stuff. Yosuke is a great character.
yosuke actually has a character arc throughout the game thats kinda hidden, if you keep going back and checking kanji dungeon, yosuke goes from making jokes to stopping throughout the game
the physical injury inflicted on him by teddies human form that can be heard in his voice every time he comes back on screen
you can hear the exact moment Joe's soul leaves his body when he realizes Teddy is going to be a party member and not Rise
42:14 Kinda. It's not that Rise hates her Risette persona, it's that she wants people to like who she really is rather than fawn over Risette. She just doesn't understand at this point that Risette is part of what makes Rise the person she is. Which is the point of her Social Link.
Years from now, there will be no life on earth. But, there will be two sounds that fight over the dusty wind. They are
*Great Vegetables*
Vs.
*"It's because of Ose Jo"*
Then, another challenger shall arise.
"The Collapsar"
For those who are curious enervation lowers the stats of the enemy or ally suffering the ailment. Its basically that level lowering status ailment in Final Fantasy. The game does not make it obvious as you generally can't check your in game stats in battle.
I think he found out in magatsu inaba iirc
Me finding him being sad about Rise being the navigator funny when I experienced the same thing with Fuuka in P3
The anime makes a lot of the awful scenes in this game so much better; sometimes, it's just "this goes by a thousand times faster", but often times it makes it actually funny. I was dreading seeing the trip again but it made the thing with Yosuke and Kanji in the tent into much more of an actual gag, so it goes from several minutes of just being uncomfortable to 40 seconds of actually being kind of funny. Narukami actually talking doesn't hurt.
Very true💯
I'm not sure I agree with that. The sub was fine to my recollection, but in the dub Narukami comes across as a homophobe himself. It feels less like a gag at that point and more like Yosuke's behavior is being condoned, given who Narukami arguably represents. If anything, I felt that made the scene worse.
@@CTM162 tbf he just said that he didn't wanna try it not that he was against it
I disagree, I thought it was even worse in the anime because Yu sided with Yosuke and encouraged Kanji to go to the girl's tent. Turning it into one big joke doesn't make it any better.
Then there's also the blatant fatphobia with Hanako in that same episode... It sucked.
agree with that the scene is better in the anime. still not good, but its just way less aggravating watching yosuke being immature as he usually is and not literally "i am now going to imply that your sexuality makes you inherently predatory."
seriously dude, your edits are top-notch! I was laughing my ass off the whole video
Rise: Senpai...
Joe: *Beginning to like it* Y-You're... not me!
Rise Fans: Ladies & Gentlemen... we got 'im
Dude this is so comfy to watch, I like the streams but they're really long so this is perfect for me, if u make something like this for persona 5 I'm watching it full
I agree, the guy is very supportive and his laugh is amazing
This is the first of your playthroughs I've watched so I've got no idea of your background, but I really really appreciated you taking the time to talk through your thoughts on yosuke's behavior during the camping trip and even though it didn't seem like you thought you were all that knowledgeable about all that you took the time to call the behavior out in a thoughtful way. The joy you have towards Kanji (especially the edit of him coming back from shopping with a colorful sewing kit) is so refreshing and it gives me life. Mad respect.
I know this was 6 months ago, but this video is an edited version of a lot of streams by Joseph Anderson, so the person who created this video isn't actually the one talking about Yosuke's behaviour, but rather, Joe is. Man of Answers just edited it, and I have to say, what a great editor they are. It's a shame that Joseph Anderson has never even seen these videos.
@@hoitem6500 I came to understand this shortly after I made this comment and started watching Joseph Anderson's personal channel. Your info was warranted but I do understand that now. :)
ok so like Yosuke at the beginning of development of P4 was such a good well rounded character he was actually smart, thoughtful, and genuinely caring but had his own flaws and short comings he was just a genuinely likable dude and then like all of the sudden the writers just decided to ruin his character. all of the sudden his character went from: thoughtful, funny, smart, caring, to homophobic horny douchebag and it wouldve worked well imo if they didnt COMPLETELY SCRAP HIS ROMANCE ROUTE which was supposed to explain all of his subtext and show his internalized homophobia and help him come to terms with himself. persona always has the same cookie cutter characters throughout every iteration and i think they just thought "oh shit! we forgot to add the horny male punching bag comedy relief character!!! shit lets just use Yosuke, we made him too likable to be a persona character anyways!"
I mean, Ryuji and Junpei weren't that bad by a long shot. Junpei is a great friend and doesn't make any advances towards feMC and values her friendship more. And Ryuji was the average male for the most part, possessing those negative traits but not being controlled by them, unlike Yosuke who walked off the boat and fell into the Mariana trench of horny.
Ever since P3 they just remade the same characters with small changes
Wasn’t Kanji the comedic relief punching bag character though?
@@koalabro6118he doesn’t make any advances on her but the beach scene..eeehhh
@@christopher2487 Imo, P3 did it best for the most part too.
God Joe's description of Kanji being a fusion of Yusuke and Ryuji is so on point
its like they took the best character of 4 and split him in 2
i hate the camping trip so MUCHHHH its unreal. its so needlessly mean, like, towards everyone. the "are we going to be safe with you here" is especially heinous because of how unquestioned it goes. its just so extreme and out of nowhere, everything else yosuke says in regards to kanjis sexuality is still mean but much more so feels like jabs, like a joke a friend would make and not realize is hurtful but you can tell they werent being purposefully malicious. and i know its easy to say that i just need to be less sensitive, but like. ive gotten that in real life, as a bi guy. being seen as a predator just because. it hurts. it hurts watching characters you like echoing that sentiment completely unquestioned. suprisingly i enjoy this scene much more in the english dub of the anime, since its changed to be just more random jabs which quite frankly feels much more in character for yosuke. god. i dont know. its one of the few parts of persona 4 that i genuinely hate
Persona 4 is amazing when it wants to be.
When it's NOT being amazing though, it is being terrible. Not even Ryuji getting whopped after Palace 7 for no reason even comes close to the camping trip here. Worst part of the camping trip and the equally terrible Amagi Inn scene is they have little to no plot relevance, it's just mean for no reason.
@@SomeAsian I wouldn't say he got hit for "no reason", considering he basically told Ann that she's unattractive when she cries lol.
Kanjis not gay
@@sadasianman9837 Kanji is above caring about sexuality and gender.
@@SomeAsian it still blows my mind that Ryuji getting beat up was going to be worse with Yusuke joining in to beat him, and potentially Joker, and was actually animated showing them beating him up. Sure Yosuke implying Kanji could potentially sexually assault the player and him is worse, no doubt but Ryuji getting his ass kicked for such a minor thing was just so fucking stupid it's a fairly close 2nd to me.
“And Sae slaps a table!” You’re a star making these vids, thank you 😊
Very satisfying watching Rise's unbridled Best Girl Energy wear him down lol
Ngl the Sae bits are the BEST. They’re so well edited, they make me laugh every time. Excellent work on these
Great video! Really happy with how these are turning out!
Rise: "...Senpai"
Joe: "No but also yes"
The Sae jokes are my favorite lmao
I want to fucking pet you Waffles
You skipped the last meeting!
"Stripper" Rise is an exhibitionist and normal Rise never shows her REAL self to anyone, just her fake actress personality. She wants people to see her true naked self, without her public persona. Her real self has swapped with her persona so resents that persona to the point where it becomes a shadow. A mentally healthy Rise will wear her actor persona still, but will also express herself.
Genuinely thanks for this, helps clear that alot for me actually
There is so much wrong with what you’ve said, I’m not sure correcting you will put you in the same galaxy of a notion of being right. The arc wasn’t about “exhibitionism”. It was about the meaning of one’s true self, the “real me”. Teddie’s meltdown doubles down on this theme, Rise’s free time events expand it. Are we watching the same game here?
@@yellowbirdie7182 No, you're just having trouble following me. Like for instance I say that Stripper Rise is an exhibitionist, which she is, of course, what is a stripper if not someone who shows herself off to people (that's what an exhibitionist is, btw). So you accuse me of thinking that the whole arc of the story is about exhibitionism? I'm assuming that either English is your second language (which is fine) or that maybe you're not understanding me because you take what the shadows say at face value.
The Shadows AREN'T the "true self" at all. Your shadow self is sort of the you that you don't want anyone to see. It's your "hidden self" not your "true self". Rise has denied that part of her loves being on camera and being a star. As she runs from that part of her, it becomes a grotesque exaggeration of that desire. Remember when Yukiko wanted to be rescued and her shadow turned into a super-needy damsel? Once you embrace that hidden piece of your mind, you become whole and are able to use your brave public front (the Persona) to protect you. I'm not just making this up, it's based in Jungian psychology. The Shadow is a true part of who you are, but you are more than just what you hide from people. You are also your actions. If you are secretly greedy but always hide that part of yourself and are generous your whole life, the real you is a combination of those two things, you are a generous person with greedy compulsions.
So long story short is that Rise is NOT just a weary shop girl who wants nothing to do with acting, nor is she just some unabashed attention seeker. The truth is in the middle. She WANTS to be an actress, and that IS part of her "real self" but so is the sweet shop girl from Inaba. To say she is not both of those things is to miss the point of the entire game.
I hope that was informative and that I didn't waste my time.
@@AuspexAO I’ve taken your comment literally about exhibitionism which is a mistake on my part, thanks for clearing this up
1:07:31 can we just appreciate the fact that's something horrible happened to kanji mom and we got the most cheerful music going on at the same time and then what makes this even more perfect is Joseph in the background losing his mind
When he finally realizes that Rise won't be a main team member and goes through all the stages of Hell because of it...
*chef kiss* Perfection.
The world has changed so much since this game was written and while I can still appreciate it for what it was, it also makes me happy for how far these conversations have come.
Joe tearing into that moment was fuckin' good, man. I hate the slice-of-life stuff in P4 because of interactions like that. It's almost definitely a cultural thing, but I can't stand how these close friends fucking trash each other, don't trust each other, and just let horrible things go unsaid because it's supposed to be a joke.
This might be totally inaccurate, but I feel like the P4 main casts are the most a-holic out of all the “modern” Persona games.
@@aaronbryan5095a-holic?
And if you say you don't like how "certain" interactions are written (mostly involving Kanji and/or Yosuke), dudebros hit you with "Well the game is old/Japanese, stop enforcing your modern/western values on it," as if you're just never allowed to disagree with something because it came from another culture/decade
I can enjoy 90% of the game while also acknowledging that 10% of it aged poorly. And Persona is kinda known for dropping the ball when it comes to writing (like in P5 when Ann's awakening is her rejecting Kamoshida's perception of her as a sexual object, only for the game to repeatedly sexualize her for jokes/fanservice moving forward).
Persona has bad/inconsistent writing sometimes. We can admit that without defending/validating those bad writing decisions.
@@hannahw7023 big yes to all of this! im playing through persona 4 golden right now and quite frankly, the camping scene made me want to drop the game altogether. which sucks!! because i absolutely adored persona 5 royal, despite all its flaws. i really want to love 4, and i do love most of the characters and the setting is so charming! i just have this one big problem with it and it sucks. maybe i’ll put the game down and play 3 reload for a while instead.
1:18:40 "I miss Morgana" now that's how you know it's bad
1:05:20 as soon as I saw him going towards the save point I knew what he was about to do and spat out my food in laughter lmao
WAFFLES CHAD RATING GONG DOWN SO RAPIDLY IS HILARIOUS TO ME
Great Vids so far, loved his chadness decay 🤣 Great Editing
I forgot about Yosuke scene and honestly I’m glad the girls pushed him off that ledge. I really wanted to do it myself. I wouldn’t have even put on the swimsuit and just left
Chadness Rating: *exist*
Ryse: -Im about to end this man whole career.
My god this is wonderful. Great job man.
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0p
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this guys needs to play persona 3 and get one of those reverse cards xD
Reverse? Pathetic.
Why not break it?
I feel like if Joe played p3 he would manage to break every link except Aigis and the dude in love with his teacher
@@Carlosdreamur Kenji, Nishima of all Nishimas
Omg I hope he does that just to see the results
I'm so happy to see someone else have the exact same experience with Yosuke : started as a real bro, then starting to be a thirsty annoyance to end up being a deliberate bigot asshole. Seeing that meter explode felt juuuuust right.
Bigot asshole? What a gross overexaggeration lmao.
Yea because teenagers in the prime of their stupidity are to be judged for every single stupid thing they say, people nowadays, seriously. I hope the future generations judge our behaviour with the same exalted understanding and knowledge you seem to have, because we will surely come out of that fantastic.
@@KaiSaeren Friend, you might wanna draw a line between reality and fiction at some point. Yosuke is not a real teenager. He's the product of several adults writing up a character, and since every piece of art or media is political in essence, just ask yourself what does it tell you? That's it's okay to constantly belittle your "friends"? That the default mode you ought to take around gay people is defensive?
Your comment might hold some water, if only Yosuke acknowledged and apologized for his behavior to Kanji and to a lesser extent Teddy. Which he doesn't. Not even in fan service content like the ski trip.
Second, little buddy, is that contrary to what you seem to believe, tolerance is not the blind acceptance of anything is in front of you, but the acceptance of people and opinions you might find wrong.
The difference between my original comment and yours is that I didn't attack people liking Yosuke, I described my experience and why I find him extremely badly written.
Yours was just a personal attack for having a different opinion than you on a fictional character.
@@blackstab3913 And? Of course he isnt real and he is written by real adult people, as is everything else, why would Yosuke apologize to Teddie? He gives him home later on and Teddie puts him through hell. Why would he apologize to Kanji (tho he should later on) when Kanji doesnt have to apologize for his constant outbursts of anger? How convenient that its only the social issue of the moment that is offensive and wrong. Yosuke gets just as much shit as anyone else, he is actually the butt of most jokes, just because you dont find those as relevant is simply your preference.
What it tells me that there is a double standard influenced by the current political and social terrain that people simply ignore.
On top of that, even if it is written by adults, they cant write every character as an adult, they are meant to write characters as they would behave, according to their characteristics, according to their age, their ubringing etc., they sometimes behave stupidly, they sometimes belittle their friends, even good people are mean, thats what writing is. Avoiding topics or treating them in kid gloves can create its fair share of issues as well. Everything is only political if you look at it from those lenses, games have politics in them, they dont have to be political, Persona 4 certainly isnt, at least not to me.
in any case, apologies if my comment insulted you, I could have worded it better, it was a spurr of a moment thing. However by the same token I can say that you actually are indirectly insulting people who like or understand Yusuke, saying he is poorly written is an opinion, saying that he ends up being a deliberate biggot asshole is simply judgmental. You can be offended by anything if you want, that doesnt neccessarily make it offensive.
And in any case, this game was made in 2008, well released at that time. My point was that people 13 years in the future might see our, your, mine, everyone on the internet, behaviour as appaling, immoral and socially unnaceptable, you are judging a character from a game, writers of a game from 2008, its not pointless to look at it through lenses of today, but it should be to enjoy how far many people have come, not to tear it down needlessly.
Than again, this is the internet, its made for people to express their opinions.
@@KaiSaeren I said "to an extent" with Teddy, and I won't elaborate cause this isn't furthering anyone's point.
I'll give you this one thing : it's 2008 japanese game. Yet at the same time, Kanji and Naoto's inner struggles are astonishingly handled with sensibility and relatability (mind you that I'm a male hetero).
You're pretty much arguing alone in the sense that you seem to wanna make me realize that my 2021's 28 yo ass despise 2008 Yosuke. Well I agree. Even if I was to make the argument that media should only be viewed as a product of their time, I simply humanly can't.
I've rewatched "Scrubs" recently. That show made me laugh a lot back in the days, but rewatching last year made me cringe to no end, cause half the cast is giga sexist, toxic, emotionally abusive, but at the time, it was widely considered funny. Well it isn't anymore.
Public shaming in middle ages where probably very funny for a lot of people.
And no, you can't put words in my mouth and say "you insulted Yosuke fans", because I actually didn't, I just said how I viewed him, and to an extent, Atlus's writing team (let's not forget that Yosuke was at first supposed to be a closeted gay and they shifted at some point, making some of his scenes thematically... odd).
Last thing is that you give me heat for seamingly "getting offended by Yosuke" while you are yourself getting offended cause I said that Yosuke is a biggot, which he arguably is and stays this way at every point in the game. So... I guess we're both special snowflakes that gets offended over nothing?
I only replied cause your second comment was constructive and not emotional like the first one, but I'm just not up for debating this particular issue, as I've been too much already on Persona reddits.
Hope my responses clears some stuff up and we both get something out of this
Have a good one mate
1:29:32 That noise of pain sounded so genuine and amazing
this abridged series has Pavlovian conditioned me to expect the inception bwah whenever someone mentions a collapse
Thank you!
Just so everyone knows, Enervation halved every stat of the target. Your 33 strength? It's now 16. Etc. It's actually one of the best ailments in the game.
dread it, run from it but Rise arrives all the same.
Joe's Shadow is honest about how cute Rise is and how she can break his defenses.
Finally, Joseph and I share an opinion about Persona characters and the interactions we have with them! It's been long enough since I first played Golden that I don't remember how I felt about everyone the first play through, but going back to it, I always feel like there's not enough options and there should always just be an extra option of either asking Yosuke what the fuck is wrong with him, or telling him to shut up."
I hated that Rise was the navigator/Futaba too. I really loved her design and wanted to see her in battle. I felt your disappointment
The silver lining is you don't have to hear Kuma talk again during battle.
The bit with the guys in the tent always rubbed me the wrong way, it's a pretty common trope too in japanese media to use LGBT characters as punchlines like that, and the fact that Kanji's sexual preferences are never really cleared up from this point forward, so much that it's still a controversial point to this day, is the thing that I hate the most about P4. The anime is even worst at that, Protagonist and Yosuke are pretty much bullying Kanji for laughs in that scene, and those two are his only friends at that point too, it's just mean.
P4g is one of my favourite games, but they handled this topic awfully. They didnt do a great job with Naoto either, but at least they moved on and didnt go too far into a subject they can’t handle properly.
Well... Maybe this game is not for snowflakes then
@@rickydevmj wow, you sure got them
@@rickydevmj There's nothing wrong with ppl tsking issue with that scene. Chaacters like Yosuke can be flawed but The player is allowed he annoted especially when it assinates his character wnd perputates dumb stereotypes for seemingly no reason.
damn dude this be some god tier comedic editing good job
All released parts can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PL0oovA2e0HSGncACW8JZu-1xTcnzgR9Um
Kanji making fun of Yosuke really shows us all how much of a Yukijoe Joe really is.
I really wish they would have put romanceable Yosuke in the game, because then at least he had a reason, albeit a still shitty one, to be the way he is with Kanji.
I find it funny how the recent P4 players complained a lot about Yosuke.
Meanwhile years ago Yosuke was always shipped with the MC so much they even found a rumored deleted Yosuke route social link. Even the anime adaptation poked at that in many scenes.
It's not that I find it bad, just funny. Also, Yosuke being an asshole is unfortunately one of the result of him accepting his shadow. I mean, his shadow is an asshole, he then accepted it, lol
I mean it's more just that some stuff aged HORRIBLY. And Honestly when you consider the cut romance route it makes it seem like he just had internalized homophobia but without it he seems like a dirtbag.
I think what Joseph brought up when he went on that tangent is probably the most accurate; considering Yosuke has been the most perverted Magician Arcana in the series, it does make sense that he has the mindset of "if a guy's with a bunch of girls, then he wants to smash." The amount of times he tries to devise plans to try and get women in his pants as WELL as asking the protagonist which girl he preferred kinda confirms this.
The only other bit of defence I could offer in this devil's advocate comment is that he still likely has a lasting (albeit wrong) impression from the dungeon, due to how the shadow is meant to be a "reflection"
I think that Kanji's arc on paper is good, as it's ok for someone to question their sexuality and say "I don't think I'm into guys after all." Even the whole "Yosuke is uncomfortable" bit would have worked, but the fact that they have three conversations of "I'm not really gay" and Yosuke's lack of apology, it really weighs down an otherwise great pair of characters
@@hilotakenaka I do think Kanji is gay, or Bi depending how you see the Naoto gender debate. But honestly I think he just wants Yosuke to stop attacking him over it. Yosukes micro aggressions do get old quick.
@@roseumbra4814 the... Naoto gender debate? Its not a debate. Naotos flat out a girl. She just pretended to be a guy so she would be respected as a detective, which is far from being like.. Transgender or anything.
@@roseumbra4814 I thought the term was "questioning."
To me it seems like Kanji is bi or is into tomboys, as he's shown to enjoy the visual appearance of girls (which you can gleam from all the nosebleeds) whilst he likes the personality of men. That's why he's so vocal in trying to get Naoto into the beauty contest; he wanted to see if he truly did like girls despite how he was treated by them in the past.
Also Naoto isn't trans, and the shadow's dialogue is more of an overflow of emotion rather than what she truly felt.
Personally, it's really interesting for me to watch him playing P4 after P5 when my exposure was the reverse. It's like our opinions are completely opposite each other lmao
its sucky that yosuke treats kanji like that especially when he most likely isn't even attracted to guys but given when the game came out and that it was made in japan mainly for japanese people makes it understandable why he acts that way, not acceptable but understandable given the circumstances
Like someone else said, the time period in this game, Yosuke's "homophobia" (or really just his discomfort with the idea, I'll explain why I think that) isn't really there out of Hate. During that time period, people were still really ignorant to the idea of being gay, and to the fact that it's normal. At the time, people's parents were really against it so it sort of rubbed off, but over time people started excepting it more. So it's not really like Yusuke hates Kanji for seeming gay, which yeah like you said i don't really think he's gay. Bi, at the extent, but really just confused about himself.
It's not the worth thing as he made it out
dude your editing is amazing. thank you so much for this series :)
As a dude who was their age during the time this came out, yosuke’s way of thinking was not abnormal nor out of place. It was just around the time where it started to not be a taboo subject. It was legit homophobia not born of hatred but out of ignorance. We had boomers for parents who sheltered us from that kind of stuff so it wasn’t until we got into the world and meeting lgbt people that the phobia dissuaded and that it didn’t really matter who slept with who.
Idk I was openly homophobic up untill like... 7? That's due to the dad being a protestant believer and being homophobic and overall dumb even now. But when you start interacting with people in early school, you begin to understand the value of people without judging them for their preferences. Every single teenager in my class understood that when moving to the middle school. And I live in a part of world where gays still can't get married and as much as mentioning homosexuality near children will get you in jail. Yusuke is just a self-centered asshole who doesn't stop to think about people around him even for a second.
yosuke was written by grown adults don’t forget that
@@isabellas5471 Yosuke's also a whole ass child (2nd years are like 15-16? iirc) so the writers' decision isn't unreasonable
@@JoeticJustice yeah but they didn’t really let him “grow” out of that mindset. if they wanted to have a character act like that they shouldn’t have made it seem like it was okay to joke around like that or say some of the things he did. i’m sure a lot of the “jokes” yosuke said were said by the grown adults who, again, wrote him and they thought it was funny so they included them. idk, i just dont want to excuse the shitty things he said as him being a kid, because im sure that wasn’t the mindset they had while giving him some of those lines. although, i’m sure if they got called out for it they’d try to use that as an excuse, haha
@@isabellas5471 well I don’t know the writers besides what was provided, but I do know that if the case was just to make excuses for their personal opinions, they did a shit job because Kanji’s character easily over shines Yosuke’s instigating. Along with his interaction with the rest of the team commonly shutting him down on his impulsive behavior. And from a writing standpoint I would gamble that main plot line teams and side quest teams are entirely different writing squads (since Yukiko and literally 210ºs on their social link personality and main plot personality, yet the rest of the gang seem to carry a pretty strong thread between side and main), all in all it just wouldn’t make sense for the writers to use Yosuke as a filter for their personalities, especially since he continuously gets shut down throughout the game.
Yosuke's downfall needs to be studied
59:52 This reminds me of when someone online tried telling me that Ann and Joker banged in the Ferris wheel scene in P5. In public. In the brief span that the car was returning to the ground (which was made explicit in dialogue - the ride was almost over). With both of their eyes shut.
Enervation's effect is confusing the player, and no one cured Joe
If it is Teddie abuse you desire, then play persona q. Yukiko's entire relationship with Teddie is "I'm going to fucking kill that bear".
Kanji is best boi.
Fight me.
And Joe 😂
But Joe has Ose, how can I fight that?
yosuke's downfall from being joe's favorite character to morgana #2
Can't blame Joe for being charmed by the amazing voice of Laura Bailey.
the yosuke dialog in the tent was most definitely a product of its time and was never meant to be taken so seriously as Kanji never addressed it again but that bring said, I 100% can see where yosuke the character would be coming from as a teenager who dosen't understand that kind of thing and is still learning how that stuff works and it really comes off as just teenage guy talk which is why I never really thought about it like that.
Yeah mfs these days try to act like the world was always like it is today and erase the past
I agree to an extent. My only problem is that the protag never has the option to tell him that he is being rude or overreacting. I can accept characters having flaws and Yosuke not really understanding homosexuality. But forcing the protag to basically agree with him kinda makes it feel like the devs expect you, the player, to also agree with Yosuke, thus validating him.
Seriously, I would be much more okay with the camp scene if the protag just had the option to be like "Wtf Yosuke." I don't even need Yosuke to change, tbh, I just want the game to acknowledge the fact that you don't have to agree with him. And the same goes for every time he harasses the girls. As much as I hate to see it, I'd be much more okay with it if you could at least call him a scumbag
One does not simply resist laura bayley... 👌
And Sae slams the table and says: "You got some nice looking glasses, you must have the help of some master glassessmith"
Yosuke’s attitude towards Kanji is handled a little better in the anime, where his remarks aren’t just him making wild assumptions in the accusations based on Kanji’s supposed sexuality, so I’m glad they fixed that in the anime
i think jo missed the point of shadow selves, they are the person, just their emotions going haywire, everything the shadow feels is the truth
is a comment i should have left on the last video because he half realises it during the rise fight
I've played through this game over 3 times now and I still can't tell if Yosuke's homophobia was a result of an unfinished "repressed feelings" arc or Atlus backpedaling way too hard in the other direction after canceling him as a romance option.
Joe's fury at Dojima for being neglectful makes even more sense when you remember that he's a father.
I loved Yosuke so much at 1st, he was smart, observent and ACTUALLY showed compassion and consideration for others but after Kanji joined the team he just went down hill for me turning into a bit of a perv and always bullying Kanji. Yosukes character would have been so well rounded with his originally intended romance rough had been kept in the game cause it explain WHY he was such a dick giving him room to grow and make amends but no they just chickened out and got rid of it and treated his homaphobic comments as a joke rather than what it actually was that being internalised homaphobia but without the romance rough yosuke is just an asshole. They done the same thing with Kanji and his sexuality, Kanji is not straight liking naoto befor he knew they were a girl and also telling the investigation team he thinks he may just be the type of dude who is never into girls but straight after him saying that him instead of having him be comfitable with his attraction to guys they start to make him deny it every chance he gets wich makes me so mad cause even with something that looked promising ATLUS rewind it turning his sexuality into a joke. It's so annoying how they try and make these complex characters but then back peddle
Rise's basically forced to be an Idol on TV where they have contracts to supress themselves, never say anything mildly vulgar and they can't even have boyfriends without the showrunner saying so. Idol contracts in Japan and ESPECIALLY Korea are horrible toxic situations.
God that Yosuke vs Yusuke graph is amazing
so glad I found your channel
Your editing skills are insane and they just keep getting better with each video!
1:16:35 is he gonna play p5r? pls tell me he's gonna play p5r.
And/or Strikers!
Probably not any time soon though
I’m hoping he does
He is but not until he finishes his Witcher 3 video
after finishing his videos on cyberpunk and the witcher he was planning on playing either persona 3 if it gets a remake, or P5R, or Persona 5 strikers
I love these compilations, but if you ever do more, please lower the volume a bit on the "time paradox" clips, they're way louder than the actual video and it keeps making me jump lol
1:18:40
"I miss Morgana"
P5R: bonjour
Me: *pausing to grab a snack*
Joe, right as I hit the pause button: "WELCOME TO MY TEDDIE TALK!"
Me: *wheeze*
The edit at 38:03 is perfection.
1:30:35 Anyone notice how he's so disgusted at himself that he actually pronounces Rise wrong
14:51 he dont know yusuke is CLOSETED ABOUT HIS CUT ROUTE NOOOOOOOO
I'll be one of the first to say that the game absolutely massacred Yosuke's character after Yukiko's arc, but the excessive homophobia actually has a rational (albeit not much more palatable) explanation. For some reason, Japanese culture loves to perpetuate this notion that men are incapable of controlling themselves when they're alone with someone they may be sexually attracted to. Yosuke wasn't really insinuating that Kanji specifically would assault them, it's just the norm to assume that a guy would be tempted to something like that when sleeping next to someone they want to bang.
Theres a lot of homophobia in p4 and 5 but the tent scene is the only one that brings me down and makes me feel like shit. I wish they removed it in ports
So for some context about the campout scene, this game takes place in 2011.
Yep yep. And that's 13 years ago. I can definitely see it as more of a "people not really understanding it at the time" and also the "Parents probably talked about homosexuality in a bad light around him" kind of thing. It's definitely a product of the time and DEFINITELY doesn't do any favours for Yosuke. But it is somewhat understandable when you look a little into the climate of Japan at the time.
I do apologize if I worded this in a weird way tho. I suck at typing out my thoughts.
@@buttsagonton101 Yeah I can accept the offensive humor. It aged poorly but it's a product of its time and the game overall is still great. But the thing I really cannot stand is dudes who get mad whenever someone calls out the camp scene and other poorly-aged jokes.
Yes, I am aware that this is a 2011 game from Japan. But I can still disagree with its content. But so many dudes act like you aren't allowed to disagree with Yosuke. Instead of just saying "Yeah you're right, that scene aged poorly," they're like "Well it's an old game so stop forcing your modern morality onto it, you SJW snowflake."
Counterpoint, persona 3 takes place in 2009 and all of sees, even junpei, are WAAY more tolerable than yosuke