Chin Anchor in Traditional Archery? | Archery Tips
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2023
- Why Olympic archers anchor under the chin, and why (most) trad shooters don't.
Bow: Harvey Raptor 40#
Arrows: Gold Tip Traditional
Quiver: Mandarin Duck Ranger
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what you seem to be referring to at 10:00 is what we call "point blank range" in rifle shooting. Due to the parallax between the sightline and the projectile arc, the projectile starts on an upward trajectory to the sight line but then starts to fall after that certain distance. Often times a point blank range in firearms is given as two numbers, say 50/200 yards, where the projectile rises to the sight line at 50 yards, is above the sight line until 200 yards, and is below the sight line after that. It is also given as a 2" point blank, which is the distance between the projectile and the sight line until it is beyond that distance. Because of the distance between the chin and eye, the chin anchor is something like a 5" point blank, which would feel like a rainbow trajectory in rifles
Very true!!
👍🧙♂️!
I didnt even know bears could use bows
😂
No man, bare bows are made for bears. They're made OF bears!
Hi mate, i 100% get your points especially your points on learning shooting at short distance (completely agree), when i started out, under the chin was really the only anchor that worked for me, tried the rest with no real success, i use it for string walking bare recurve, gap shooting bare compound and modify it to gap shoot longbow. Totally understand your points on why you are reluctant to teach it to beginner archers but i wouldn't completely discount it for begining barebow archery especially when string walking recurve.
I have been shooting a traditional bow for 3 years and use the gap shooting method too. I would like to add that in addition to the height of the anchor point, the poundage of the bow and the weight of the arrow also affect the gap. The larger the poundage of the bow and lighter the arrow, the more the gap between the aiming point and the hit point. Also, among other things, the parallax is affected by the length of the arrow. The longer the arrow, the smaller the gap.
I shoot flu flu arrows aswell and some variants of them produce more drag than others. So I have to adjust my point of aim/gap to accommodate for that too.
I feel like i'm learning so much from this video. I'm currently at a school that literally does what you just said; they teach chin anchor for beginners with barebow at 5 meters, I'm now using sight at 20m, but when i was just starting out i was a bit frustrated because i didn't know where to look at when aiming, it felt so random, and my teachers really never explained us why, we just had to do it. Thanks a lot
This sounded like me, so I tried the cheek anchor with my Bear recurve. Such a great improvement in my groupings last week. Thanks for all the great info!
I needed this video. Thanks for explaining this so well!
I have watched several of your videos. They are all interesting, informative and educational. Thank you very much
I think this is an excellent learning tool. I had noticed many of these things, but I didn’t know why they occurred or what caused the differences. This helped my understanding a lot. Thanks very much.
Newton 1st and 3rd law, pytagoras.
@@mortenjacobsen5673
Yer both can be correct if you're talking about force. This is anchor thus its more about alignment, and distance. If he stood further back then string walking relies on distance to. Hence some professional finger tabs have distance calculators on them, which in a competition is illegal to use if you don't know the distance. The objective is to guess the distance by experience.
2:26 Solution: "Reference point" - As someone who doesn't even shoot, he's basically using the arrow itself like a sight on a gun. He does it by putting his fingers "3 fingers below", (your hand doesn't touch the arrow) which puts the butt of the arrow on top of his eye, when he draws his hand back to his mouth.
Fantastic video. I am a barebow shooter stuck with low recurve anchor - this video gave me a push to try anchor higher! 😊
Barebow is dominated by string walking, so it's best to learn 3-under with a corner mouth anchor point. At distances past your point-on, you can start switching to split finger on the mouth followed by under-chin.
This is very informative. Just started archery last month and I've been watching many of your videos. I'm getting better and better with each day😉
Same, but I'm still going to be coached, only so much you can learn off youtube. Yes I've got better at shooting, but i bet I'm doing things i could improve by having a coach stand with me. You also get to learn about the equipment you're using. Jmo, many never go to a coach and I'm not necessarily saying that's wrong. Just you'll get more out of archery by being coached in real life.
The biggest difference is that a (good) coach will evaluate what you need to learn and how to best teach it. People who get coaching from me achieve their immediate goals in a single session with instant feedback and a toolkit they can use to improve themselves. This is impossible to achieve from passively watching videos. The value of a good coach cannot be overstated.
Thank you, with a take down bare bow always learning...
I think I anchor around the side of my lip with a little rubber thing above my nock. seems to help with consistency.
happy to see you back on youtube. Where have been?
Hi Sensei, greetings from UK. In the guidelines of Archery GB encourages corner of mouth anchor in barebow string walking or not, but it also suggests lightly that other forms of anchor are OK. I know that are archers that string walk and anchor Olympic style. I tried before and works fine. Also, there is a way of aiming using the horizon of the shelf at long distances to gain elevation with the corner anchor
Interesting info. I am basically a string walker shooter who anchor olimpic style. So lately I started practising GAP shooting without string walk, just 3 under at 20m. The arrows points to the grass on the floor so I use my upper limb as reference against the gold to shoot and I got good gold groups quite fast. I tried yesterday to do some 30m gap shooting and it was quite more difficult. I still need to get an idea of which is the exact spot of my upper limb against the gold at that distance.
Currently, with my trad bow i practice shooting arrows without reference points like throwing darts and its almost magical how accurate you can be. With my hybrid bow i use an Olympic sight and shoot from much further. For the trad bows i shoot with a canted bow and split finger cheek bone anchor, hybrid, i use 3 under and a cheekbone anchor. Im not a seasoned veteran at this though and although im getting good accuracy, i may change things down the road.
Good video, well explained, I totally agree with you, I shoot mainly intuitive as I have been practicing various forms of Archery a long time, I try NOT to shoot at the same distance, and I keep track of the target and arrow point without thinking about it, I like this video for the explanation on chin anchor, I rarely meet other Archers, England is very conservative when it comes to Archery clubs, mainly opinionated old farts, turn up with an Asiatic bow and do thumb draw like I do, omg, it is almost heresy, so good to know if ever asked, why under the chin a bad idea, it never worked for me, so I never did it.
Thank you I’ve been trying to figure this out . I’ve been string walking but I’m trying to to shoot gap because of traditional archery rules .
Cool info. I started off shooting with corner of mouth, then to Canine tooth and then ended up 2 years later putting under my chin- as I felt that it was better form as i'm fully exending my arm and not stopping on corner of mouth short. Anchoring further back under the chin is near the end of most peoples reach so its a natural stop vs on your Canine or corner of mouth for example. If you are using the point of the arrow to shoot with then I feel you are limited to your arrow lengths and if you ever have to shoot arrows that are another size your whole shooting method will have to re adjust. I therefore opted for shooting instinctively without a reference point and using split finger under this chin..so basically the hardest possible way as it takes a heck of a long time to learn. But with the KLS cycle method I'm hitting gold often even without a sight. It is definatley less consistent than string walking but i like the idea of shooting different distances and even different arrows of different sizes still accurately by shooting instinctively from under the chin. But the biggest bonus from shooting instictively is that you dont' have to point to ground but rather let your brain figure out the area to aim at and you can anchor anywhere you want..but caveat...it does take a lot longer to get good at that and to train the brain to be able to shoot this way..
when i first started shooting. I was taught under chin on a bare bow. I didn't like it. I tried different styles. I now use 3under, cheek anchor. Works best for me. Thank you
I'm gonna give this a try during my next practice. What worries me about "corner of the lip" anchor is the lack of points of contact, but maybe now that I'm going to start following the checklist advice from your other video that might compensate the lack of consistency that concerns me.
Remember that corner of the mouth is a starting point for finding an anchor. You can always deviate and pick a better one that suits your specific technique and face structure. While I say corner of mouth in this sequence, I actually use my cheekbone as my reference point.
@@NUSensei Very fair point, thanks again!
Good episode. Unfortunately my back yard is not big enough to shoot a chin anchor w/o a sight. And I have one used D wheel bow where the peep puts you at chin anchor.
Way to much mental gymnastics to shoot close in ...
I'm waiting on a new string for it where I can set the peep lower and get back to corner mouth 😊
Im now hitting dead center. I'm confused why my arrows going up before.
I used corner of mouth with 3 fingers under for years. A creature of habbit, scared to leave my comfort zone.
Interesting technique. When shooting with what we call instinctive technique body does all the work instead of string walking or sights. We used to release the arrow right away although i'm not sure if this rule is still the same, to me it made no sense because most shooters would aim, pull and release right away. So they aimed in any case...
Question: do you lose arrow speed fps or bow efficiency when you string walk down away from the nock?
I‘m shooting Olympic but I tried to shoot instinctive just recently. My ancher point is actually also under the chin only slightly higher than my Olympic anchor. I’m shooting instinctively with using the arrow point as an aiming device. It feels like, if I would, I could also mount my sight to the bow again. Once I figured out the high I group well. For me constant anchor and form is more important than an aiming tool.
Had to switch how I hold the string to 3 fingers under. i was building up some massive calluses on the side of my idex finger even with gloves
Barebow shooter and using the corner of the mouth anchor was a sure recipe for removing all of the skin from the right side of my bottom lip. After trying several variations it got so bad that I resorted to shooting compound. Just by chance I shifted my anchor down and forward just a touch (anchor point is now "middle finger on bottom jaw and pointer finger at the base of a tooth) and no more ouch. Added bonus, it gave me a point on of 60m which is a pretty standard shooting distance at our club.
No it was not an alignment issue; it was a short fingers and fat face issue that led to the string slapping me in the lip.
Moral to the story for me was, try something different. Yes, corner of mouth and/or on a tooth are the common methods but they don't work for everyone.
Yup, this is a good example of how people can - and should - experiment to find out what works for them.
String walking is bad for the bottom bow limb.
I shoot Trad with a fixed crawl about an 1 1/2" under the arrow. I anchor 3-under, middle finger on the cleft of my chin, thumb knuckle on the corner of my jaw, and my nose squarely on the string. It's the only way I know how to shoot without string-slapping my big Italian nose, and I'm not interested in wearing a band-aid on my nose every time I want to shoot. It seems to work for me, but I'm open to suggestions.
Fix your alignment
I can only just look at what I want to hit , draw and anchor where I always do. Instinctive ,
Hi NuSensi. Love your videos. I've been shooting trad archery for 3 years and use instinctive/spilt-vision technique with good results. The one thing that has always confused me is when instructors or other archers mention using the point of the arrow to aim, the arrow will tend to fly high, especially at shorter distances. I shoot split-finger and when I use the point of the arrow it goes exactly where arrow was pointed. It does not strike the target high, and I never have to compensate for a gap. Am I missing something?
I'm missing a lot of context over what you are doing. However, even with no information on your anchor point and distance, this can be explained through ballistics. Assuming that you are shooting at a target at the same height as you, the only way you can point directly at the centre and hit it is if you align the arrow at eye level. The arrow will fly straight at the point of aim. As soon as you lower the arrow (to the cheek, mouth or chin), it will point above the centre due to the parallax between the eye and the arrow. I cannot see what you see, but it may also be that you naturally align the shaft below the centre, pointing _towards_ but not _at_ the centre, which is the right gap for short distance.
@@NUSensei Thanks for the feedback. You have me thinking. As you mentioned, I must be naturally or subconsciously re-aligning my arrow to the proper spot below the center of target.
What is the make of your wooden hybrid longbow?
If I'm not mistaken, Korean traditional archery also teaches a low anchor point for the same reason: long distance target archery?
Yes, styles that focus more on long distance shooting will generally use lower anchors. Methods with higher eye level anchors are better for direct shooting.
actually if you are using the chin anchor, don't aim with the arrow point. place the Gold ring snug into the the to of the riser cut out. Also the further the distance the less you have to aim at the bottom
do you close one eye if so which one?
I'm a little confused. I shoot under the chin but I'm always point on by string walking. If I was to shoot gap I would anchor on my cheek, but with me wanting to shoot point on at all ranges, I'd end up having the arrow above my eye line at shorter ranges because of the elevation from walking down the string... am I missing something?
The point was that the chin anchor is the most difficult to gap shoot with, especially at close to mid distance. Face walking and string walking is not learners are doing when they start
@@NUSensei thanks for replying.
I'm pretty new to this, so just wanted to clarify. I was worried I'd been focused on totally the wrong technique, but i see what your getting at. Thanks Sensei.
If you want to be point on with gap you need to know every distance
@@mortenjacobsen5673 well, you'd need to know your point on distance, but with gap your hardly ever point on. I shoot from the chin but string walk. As a guide I know at 10m I'm 4 fingers down the string, 3 fingers for 20m, 2 for 30 and so on, up to split finger at 60m. So the challenge with the 1st shot is estimating the distance from me to the target, then string walking appropriately. Personally I think this makes more sense than estimating your distance, then having to estimate the gap.
lol- but I've only been shooting since early this year so, 🤷♂️ probably simplifying things and missing the finer nuances 🤦♂️
You use the tip of the arrow to aim while using chin anchor..?
I was told to just aim with my body posture and just get a "feeling" for the different distances.
This the "instinctive" method. It works for a lot of people to focus on the target and feel where the shot will go. However, going by "feel" is the least consistent method for precision shooting. If you're trying to score points, you _have_ to know where the arrow is pointing, not guess.
I use the feather to nose technic
i'm curious of your arrow specs?
If you know your 10 meter crawl then to can shoot point under with chin anchor just fine
I like the chin anchor on traditional bow for beginners specifically *because* it prevents aiming. There are big advantages of waiting to aim until after mastering the form. When do you start teaching your students to aim?
There are huge disadvantages to this approach, namely that beginners are more likely to drop out of the sport when they don't achieve success early. Virtually everyone wants to know how to hit the gold. There's no harm in telling them where they should be looking.
When I teach someone, I do it from the first shot. They're beginners. They're not going to master form anytime soon. At close distance, it needs to be good enough, not perfect.
I see more gain in the immediate gratification in understanding HOW they can hit the target with the form that they have now and work from there, not give them the hardest possible anchor. The faster someone takes ownership of their shot process and realises that the result isn't random, the faster they understand the relationship between from and result.
If your goal is truly to teach them form, make them learn it on a stretching band or elastic bow, or use blind bale shooting. If they're shooting eyes open on a target, their goal is to hit it.
Student are gonna get pretty bored if they go weeks without being able to hit anything because they cant aim and then when you finally decide to switch them to the proper way of anchoring it will just confuse them and mess up there shooting.
Is it common for other coaches to give advice to people they’re not specifically coaching? In fencing that’s huge issue unless the fencer or original coach specifically requested it
Some advice is universal, I'd say it could be problematic if the advice is technique related. Bc if one coach is strictly teaching someone 1 technique, another coach teaching a different 1, could be an issue. This would also matter depending on the experience of the student. An experienced student could learn more than one technique and it not be an issue, but inexperience could have their form messed up by trying to learn more than that 1 technique too soon.
Most people don't get coaching. Those who do have coaches typically work with one they specifically pay for, like with most professional sports. You either pick the coach you want to work with, or otherwise the one that is available to you.
The context I'm referring to is the basic instruction level. Archers learn from instructors or more experienced archers, who may be less informed on coaching and work more on what works for them.
is it not the other way around? if you chin anchor, the further ur target the more u can reference ur arrow tip towards the gold up until u reach ur zero distance… which is of course further away the lower u anchor…
That was the exact point conveyed in this video. The chin anchor was adapted for long distance shooting, but it is being taught to beginners for close-distance shooting.
sry then i must have misunderstood coz at 8:30 u said that the further the target moves away the lower you would have to aim... anyway thanks sooo much for your videos, I really enjoy them =) @@NUSensei
@@oudezhong9820 There's a paradox when going from 10m to 30m when using the arrow as a reference point. You are supposed to aim higher as the target moves further back. However, the reference point on target also moves. At 10m, you can aim at the bottom of the target, but as the target is "smaller" at 20m and 30m, the arrow point is actually further down on the ground. Past 30m, you have elevate the bow, so the reference point converges back onto the target.
I think when it comes to learning chin anchor, it should only be thought to those trying to do Olympic archery.
This video made me think about what your opinion would be on the fact that Hollywood hires Olympic archers and Olympic coaches to consult on movies where bows are used. Do you think they should hire hunters and range teachers instead? I feel like the latter would be more practical and better since Katniss, Green Arrow, and Hawkeye are shooting enemies not Olympic targets.
Would reviewing clips from movies and judging the anchor and back tension be something you'd want to make a video on?
It doesn't really matter who trains the actors. The directors ignore everything and just use the most cinematic poses and action shots with elastic strings and CGI arrows.
I use my earlobe as my anchor.
Unfortually, the Olympic recurve class is seen as the default by clubs, becourse they do want that money from the national olypic commity to develope posdible future olympic winners, wich does make that the barebow shooters and the trad shooters getting sidelined and somewhat a little neglected. And personality i feel that archery clubs should encourage their archers to try out diffrent sjooting technics and bow from all over the world and not just olympic recurve with Mediterranean threefingered release.
In the UK it's common to teach barebow first and then move onto olympic once they have a bit of experience. Never seen a penny from any "olympic community" at my club either so that's not the reason for it
0:31 Kind of looks like the one Brady Ellison has used to win... Yeah you know dude just wins nearly everything.
Some barebow archers use this , until stringwalking...
😊😅😅😅😅
this is, 100% where the challenge and struggle of learning how to gap shoot comes in. long hours at targets spent trying to establish the correct heights you need to adjust for with every distance you need to shoot. I'm currently shooting IFAA bowhunter and even with a corner of the mouth anchor my "point on target" distance is 45 yards away.
don't get me wrong, I enjoy doing it! but it's hard not to sit and be jealous at archers shooting with sights or string walkers shooting barebow sometimes ^^
Good stuff NU and great to see you pulling some string again! Personally though I say anchor's are for boats. I've learned to not use one. I don't touch my face or anything anymore. My draw hand stays free and floating. And the results are I'm much more accurate and versatile in my archery skills. Of course this works best for Asiatic archery but I find it works for any style. It's just a matter of leaving your comfort zone and trying new things. I find that's the main problem with modern archers. They are taught one way of doing things and everything else is wrong. The bow is a very versatile tool. There is no one way to use it. Besides having the basic proper form. Back tension and all that. I always tell people to find what works best for them. Anchor's are for boats. Try doing away with them and set yourself free. You might just like it lol.
I would be pretty annoyed if i went to a club and was taught two different styles using the same type of bow. Hope that coach got a good chewing out for inaccurate teaching. Not great advertising for youre club. But youre explanation is good, i tried string walking even as a learner and its not that complex imo, it just feels different, but after a couple of shots its still pulling back a bow, but string walking seems more accurate obviously because youre better aligned too the target. Also i noticed with string walking my arrow was more powerful verce split fingered.
There's no need to chew out any coach for teaching what is prescribed in the official manual. What's more important is that we need to establish a standard lesson plan so that we don't have these conflicting approaches. One of the more odd things that I nearly butted heads with inadvertently was a new archer who was loaned a sighted recurve, but because they were very new to archery, they were taught to aim with the arrow.. _with the sight still on._ I almost said this was the dumbest thing I've ever seen - either aim with the sight _or_ the arrow, not both. Take the sight off if you're not using it, because that's an insane amount of visual clutter. But they were being instructed by another coach, so I backed off.
While everything You said is factually correct, and I would never teach a newcomer to anchor like that with a traditional bow because the arrows fly too damn high, remember that you can aim using the bow as reference. Remember the spots on the bow for every distance and that is it. Also maybe with this anchor your "sweetspot" is exactly the gold from the distance you shoot the most with a low # bow. Then it is very beneficial as the chin anchor eliminates most left - right mistakes.
That is a very solvable problem: use the riser as your reference point. The chin anchor is more reliable. It's easier to be more consistent with it. If you anchor underneath your chin, chances are, the string is gonna be touching your nose, which means another point of contact for you to feel if you're anchoring right or not. By anchoring at the corner of your mouth, there are too many little deviations that can occur. Is it doable? Obviously. Is it easier to do with less practice? Absolutely not.
Using the riser as your reference point instead of the tip of the arrow is not easy, but it is easier than learning how to be consistent with a corner of the mouth/cheek anchor. (Besides, it trains you better in using your peripheral vision, which is an absolutely crucial skill for an archer)
Oh, also, you should never be focusing your eyes on your reference point. It is much more important to maintain your focus point on the target than it is to do it on your reference point. (Because of dual vision, you'll see two images of what isn't in focus, and it is more important for you to not see two images of your target than it is for you to not see to images of your reference point, especially if you're cross dominant)
I Always used an Olympic anchor with my trad bows.
You cant aim, you need to learn instictive by your feelings. But it works fine.
You just demonstrate that you are cheating and using barebow aiming technic with a trad bow