Thanks, great video. Very helpful. The Powerfilm wins it for me for ease of setup and hassle free operation but I appreciate that you didnt take sides but pointed out the strengths of each.
Appreciate the through evaluation. I have 2 GZ 30 watt rugged folding case panel and an Insatspark MARS100 briefcase panel. I use both with my power system on my camping trailer and with GZ equipment and they are effective and i love them. But your test, the portability, and a vid of powerFilm still working after being shot has convinced me to move to Powerfilm in the future. Gear always gets abused in the field, and powerFilm seems to take tough to the next level. Add to that the space saving and flexibility, and you have a winner IMHO. Please keep up the good work
Thank you for this excellent video, which is deeply informative and unbiased. I wish other product comparisons were this clear and pragmatic! Thanks again for sharing your expertise!
Excellent video. I run 3 different panels from 3 different companies on my sailboat and have read and heard a lot of (anecdotal) testimonies from other sailors indicating brand and expense often don't equate to more output. I wont mention brand, but the number one el cheapo 100w panels (flexible and rigid) on amazon when set up right are decent rivals for the expensive brands and can last for years. Of course everything is dependent on application and how serious you want to be with energy output. Thanks for the testing guys.
Skipper Hawk Thanks for watching! If you are referring to Renogy panels, I must admit that they have pleasantly surprised me. A friend (W4EDF) purchased a 60watt suitcase charger for under $230 and I thought there was no way it would work and sure enough, it put out an honest 58-60 watts even when not in perfectly perpendicular solar conditions!
It should be noted that a flat panel with not adjustment potential would perform at its optimal potential at high noon and significantly decrease thereafter, making the tripod design a more power sustainable design.
Thanks for being unbiased. I checked up on the pricing, since it wasn't super well covered. Powerfilm ranges from $1,200-$1,700 online. If you piece together the kit from Goal Zero it's only $1,020. Just another factor to consider... Cheers.
I didn't cover pricing in depth because, especially on the Goal Zero side, it can be wildly variable due to promotions and coupon codes. My next test for the big panels is to run a test between both in to identical loads to test total power generation performance. I think the PowerFilm will have an advantage here based on measurements of their smaller panels.
PowerFilm 120 is $1800 + $100 shipping. That is outragous considering the fact that a 100W flexible solar panel that can be rolled up and weighs 4lbs is only $112 w/free shipping on Alibaba and has highest quality Sunpower solar cells. The flexible Sunpower panel measures only 41"x21" and less than a dime thick..
Rob K First of all, its 1300 like everywhere I look. And I mean several links. second of all, where tf are you finding it for 100 shipping?! Lmao. Its $20 to ship for me. That's $580 less than what you're quoting. Get real
In the Pacific NW, [or anywhere there's cloudage blocking direct solar], can orient that frame so panels are basically horizontal, and let cloud reflectance hit them omnidirectionally.
You can throw the panels on the roof of your vehicle, which is what I do with my 20w panel. Id like to see them add grommets along the side and the panel can be suspended between trees and it could double as shelter from the sun or rain.
It's funny. I've seen this video before and wouldn't have noticed the call sign before, nor the references to Field Day. Cool stuff. Got my Tech this past September, and will hopefully have time to pursue my General this spring or summer. -73 KC3JUG
Thanks for posting your experience. I'd love to hear more about moisture problems you experienced. Did you expose them to rain? Humidity? Flooding? Snow? Dew/condensation? I think it's important to know the limitations. Also, what do you mean by "destroyed"? In what way? It's not that the panels are 2-3 times more inefficient, it's that their panels don't require being aimed directly at the sun. I'll have to do another video with the G0 panels parallel with the surface of the earth!
There are also some other factors to consider. (I have no stock or ownership in PowerFilm). If you go to SolarFilm website you will see video tests where they shoot their array with 9@ .40 caliber bullets and it is still working, with its output only slightly diminished. I suspect that if you put 1 hole in the rigid panels from Goal Zero, you just might get a zero output. Also, watch the video where PowerFilm tests their array against a standard array with some slight shading. They position what appears to be a 4x4 vertical posts (one in front of each array) which throws a small shadow across both their and a competitor's array during a typical charging day. The degradation in the competitive panel is much, much more due to the way they are wired internally. That test simulates less than perfect sun days with some cloud cover or possibly a shadow of a tree. Vast difference in performance with the PowerFilm greatly outdoing the competition.
It's amazing that the Powerfilm setup is more expensive than Goal Zero, I didn't think that was possible with the price that gz charges for their stuff. Interesting comparison though, I didn't think the film panel laying out the ground even had a shot of being anywhere near as efficient as the panels aimed at the sun. In any case, neither setup is really what I would call affordable. I picked up 2 230w 24v panels locally a couple of years ago for under $300 each. One of those with a charge controller and a battery are less than half the cost of either of these and potentially almost double the peak output. It's a hard sell, even though I know these setups are both made to be portable.
sandman x The large home sized panels are definitely a better value for sure, and compared to the Goal Zero Boulder 30 array, they may even be easier to work with. I can't prove it, but I would be willing to bet you would get more watts if you were to aim the PowerFilm at the sun.
1. Can you not throw-down the GZ flat just like the PowerFilm? Negates the follow the sun argument. 2. I like the fact that you provide real numbers... I would add note about solar power factor as that varies with location, atmosphere, etc. and accounts for why most panels can never deliver design output... Mother Nature doesn't give us 100% solar. 3. As far as real numbers "120w panel" does not deliver 120w to the load... per above and as revealed by "7200mAH" is ideally 102w delivered at 14.2 to the load. Thanks!
Goal Zero's Nomad 100wt chained with the Nomad 20wt, and you can throw it on the ground, and the cost is about $900... instead of $1300 ...for your powerfilm... you should do an update on this...
I would say hands down for the powerfilm, you can poke holes in it & still work, plus it will work in part sun, & the military uses it do,iyes I did my research, For $1400.00 dollars I would pay for it in a heart beat, the quality is there for me, going to pick it up for a Cambodia trip in the jungle, with a Yeti 400, want have to worry about anything except for mosquitoes, LOL,,,, . Great video, it changed my mind about what I'm taking to Cambodia, ( the Power Film ). plus the weight factor & dimensions that will be perfect flying with it as luggage, is a selling point also, the zero, to bulky, its a zero for me. Thanks again guys, give you a excellent thumbs up !
I know this video is going on four years old, but I'd be really curious, if you still have both units, to do a comparison in partial shade. Say, for example, compare the output with 5%, 10%, 25%, 50% of the panel covered, and how well they do, say, in a forest under random leaf cover. PowerFilm states that their big advantage is better performance when partially shaded, and I'd love to see how that works out in a real life test, because right now I'm struggling to justify $1300+ for 120 watts when 265 watts of residential panel costs $250.
Bruno Gianelli thank you for sharing your experience. I am aware of that video, and I understand the rationale by which the powerfilm panel should work better, but I consider that "advertising" and not a real world test, since the video is made by powerfilm to convince one to purchase their product. It would never show their gear in a bad light, or they would not release it. It's that bias I want to remove.
Thank you! Although it may seem unscientific and pedestrian, that tells quite a lot about the performance when partly shaded, and really quickly shows that the PowerFilm marketing videos are actually based in a fair amount of truth.
What is the lifespan for the PowerFlim Rollable? I've my sights set on two 60w Rollables by PowerFilm to be semi-permanently attached to a structure on our property in northern California, but at the price point it's important they are durable enough to survive.
+Impartial Tech Our modules are incredibly durable and will stand up to weather. The life span will however will greatly be determined by what the panels are exposed to.
from what I've understood it not just about the solar charger but more to do with the solar batteries pack? so what's the best batteries pack to store more power? how about a video on that.
METHOD MAN You design the battery pack for your needs. Start by understanding what your needs are based on what you are operating and whether you want to go with Lead or Lithium based chemistry. You then pick the charger that is needed to support your battery requirements. For more information, check out my video: ruclips.net/video/8SuvAKZt0Vs/видео.html&spfreload=10 it's long, but all the information you need is in there!
Suggestion for aiming the solar panels: Using the calculations and trying to set them on your tripod depends upon it being perpendicular to the earth (not exactly the best terminology). Here’s a simpler method. Use something like a toy dart gun dart. Or you could create your own just make the shaft perpendicular to the base.. Set this on your solar panel and notice the shadow it casts. Move your panel until the shadow disappears. Now it’s perpendicular to the sun no matter where it is. The idea being that the shadow falls on itself. I like the foldable panels but the price is a bit much. Maybe there is a less expensive one?
Hi, great presentation ;) could you tell me what software you use to produce the graphic overlays for your video? They are really, really amazing. Congrats. I do hope you share your graphic secret.
In Kentucky, we have our fair share of overcast days. Knowing that power film is is more more sensitive to ultraviolet light, you should test on a cloudy day. I think you will be shocked with the results. Pat - Ai4W
Larry Greenup I have not - this was not something that DigiKey used to stock. What I did was buy other adapters and cut the ends off and terminate with Anderson Power Poles. Another viewer recently pointed me at a set of DC laptop adapters that came in 26 different sizes. One of them was 7.9 mm, so that might be a match. If you find something please post!
HELP my parents have 4 boulder 30 panels and we have NO battery!!! I was looking at the yeti 400 and just charge up AGM deep cycle batteries. Please please please help me and tell me what is the best battery system to use with 4 boulder 30's at 120 watt max and 10 amp max from panels to a solar controller. I am wondering what is best yeti 1250 or like 4or8 agm marine batteries. If you can list battery name and specs I will go buy it
They’re not THAT expensive! I was expecting silly money and hoping for around £1k when I just search for them. Turns out they’re £973, fine by me. I’ll buy a set and stick them in the attic for SHTF time, hopefully it’s a CME and I’ll get uber power. 👀
myreddays if I can buy one and I'm on college only making $15 an hour, and pay everything by myself, then you can too! You CAN afford it, you might have to save a little, and not eat avocado toast every morning and drink $6 beers, but you can afford it 🤷♂️
They keep claiming that thin film is cheaper to make well they sure aren't passing the savings on to the public which is extremely shame because they could take the heat better than silicone. Love the power test and chart...
SolarizeYourLife I unfortunately don't know enough about the chemistry to comment, but I met a gentleman at Dayton who was the most knowledgeable person about PV chemistries that I've ever met. He has a PhD and just started selling his own integrated charge controller/battery units. The site is solar24.pw .
SolarizeYourLife The Goal Zero Yeti 150 Solar Generator is a gas free source of portable power to keep lights, phones and laptops powered on through any situation. get it here amzn.to/1SZWGjN
I have a goal zero yeti 150. It didn't come with a solar panel though. I thought it was included since it was pictured with one and of course I didn't research enough because I have kids and a lot of distractions around me. I was looking for a solar panel FOR this generator and they are NOT cheap, heck, 250 for the generator was expensive to me. Would I be able to use a cheaper type that is not the same brand, and what would I need to make THAT work and connect to it. The guy at Goal Zero company didn't tell me much, but he did say as long as the panel has MC4 connections and an 8mm adapter THAT should work. Thing is, I don't know the first thing about panels or which ones have MC4 connectors. Do you or can you help me with what types I could get for under 50 dollars. The cheapest but not TOO shitty of a brand would be helpful. Thanks for any advice,
To help you a person needs to know what you want to charge for how long. And how many hours you use it. In the world of solar energy there's no silver bullet. Much of it has to do with the thing your charging your usage. And, your ability to conserve. Once a person knows what you wanna charge. Then a kit can be recommended.
You should start simple powering a phone. With solar battery charger. Then move up to a lab top. Once you got the hang of that, try powering, a lamp. Then a t.v. that's enough for this stuff. To power and a.c. or fridge you need major panels and generators.
Also you should try a solar cooker. So you can begin to use less electricity. By using the Sun to slow cook meals. I used it for months. Like I said saving energy, no magic thing. It's a combo. In the case of the solar oven. That's 1000 something watts I don't need. Weather solar or wall. The natural reflective sun oven prevents you from needing to buy pannels, for your oven.
jb76489 There was note, but when you think about it, there really are a lot of factors. Usually when companies give a rating to their products, they do so in the most optimum conditions (high noon sun at the equator with raw exposed cells).
I am not that knowledgeable with terms you're using. I would like to ask. What can I use this for? Meaning how many things can I hook up to it? Example tv? iPhone? Electric stove? Fridge-raider? Backup batteries? I think if you can explain in terms of time base on mah (iPhone or iPad) it could help me understand.
+Felis Extraterrestris If you look, you can find 12V Laptop power supplies. Radio Shack used to carry several. I have one that I use to power a Lenovo T430 for the field. THere are also some available on Amazon, but they seem to be harder to come by and more expensive. Look for Auto/Airline laptop adapters. There are no official ones available for Macs.
KF7IJZ thx for the answer. i got a 12v car adapter. it changes the 12v from the car battery to 230 V (eu). i could put the laptop power supply plugged in that adapter, but that seems like a step too many to me... and i am not sure if that would destroy something in that row... laptop, power supply, adapter and/or solar panel.
Sounds like you have an inverter, which is a common practice to do what you're looking to do, however it is terribly inefficient to take DC12V up to AC230 back down to DC19.
I like to use a tv 10.2 in running at 8.5 whats in my tent when I am camping . off a motor bike battery 12 v 22 a hours will the power film do the job .what I am saying is can you fix it up to a motor bike battery . and on a hot day with blue skys how long will it take to top the battery up from the flat . please ?
keith rice Since I don't recommend discharging your battery below 12v-11.8v, that would give you half the rated capacity, or 11Ah. Converted to watt hours, we're at 132Wh of charge. That means you could run your TV safely for 15 hours (assuming 8.5 watts as you've said). The 120 watt panel would have no problem getting that battery charged up in less than a day - check out Genasun for a good portable charge controller.
Beware excessive power in this case. The charge current of that small battery is probably around 2 amps so while it will work, there's no particular advantage to using a 100 watt solar panel on a small battery that only wants 30 watts (or so).
Don’t get it... if you’re overlanding, why not just buy a standard mono crystalline panel (200-215w) and store it neatly in the truck? Right? I think that’s what I’m gonna do.
My big panels won't fit in an automobile. Four smaller panels is a bit of a nuisance but travels nicely. Also, sometimes I don't need 80 watts when 20 will suffice. Obviously the thin film travels even more nicely. Glass covered, aluminum edged monocrystalline solar panels will last a REALLY long time, I still have one from 1980. Not as performing as once was the case but still works. I have a small flexible solar panel but other than experimentally have never used it.
Jevin Wilson They both can. The Yeti 1250 has an Anderson PowerPole port for solar input, and you can also make an adapter with the cables available from GoalZero directly.
Used PF product. Moisture destroyed it during few weeks.Need more sun area because efficiency 2-3 times lower then mono crystal.Yes it's very light but too expensive and has short life.
No, it takes more area for thin films because they are less efficient solar wise, ~5% thinffilm vs ~15% silicon... , but thinfilm likes heat where silicon wants to run cooler...
could you hook the goal zero panels together and then... to save time.. screw the damn tripod and lay it on the ground.. or lean it against an adjustable bendy tripod that is grippy or just some object.. I donno lol
Gilbert Flowerface Absolutely you can. When I first started using Boulder 15 panels, that's exactly what I did. I eventually had a friend build me a custom rig to attach them to a tripod. Being able to reposition them to improve performance is a very handy feature. Getting the panels off the ground is also handy so no one steps on them!
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ruclips.net/user/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
KF7IJZ Beat me to it and they also sell a kit with the Goal Zero Yeti 1200 which would cover about any emergency. It will run a fridge, unplug the fridge it would run a 900 watt microwave and run 12 volt coolers or other 12 volt products. I have a couple Goal Zeros a Yeti 400 for lighting, computer and modem and a 100 watt for just lighting downstairs or also to power the modem. I have to 30 watt brief case panels but would love to replace my emergency gas generator with their Powerfilm and Goal Zero Yeti 1200.
This is a pointless comparison, like comparing a particular motorcycle to a certain car. Each serves a unique function that it will excel at where the other will be deficient. Consider the benefits and shortcomings of each type of panel: Conventional panels will always be the most efficient at producing power in full sun but do very poorly when the light is obstructed by clouds, trees, etc. Even if a few leaves drop on them, power can fall considerably. Thin-film isless efficient in full sun than the conventional panels but continue to deliver power in low light. Even in the woods or under heavy cloud cover, they keep putting out power long after a conventional panel has completely shut down. Conventional panels need to be oriented toward the sun for maximum efficiency, while thin-film works even at an extreme angle, albeit with reduced efficiency but it keeps working. Conventional is more easily damaged and stops working when broken. Thin-film is substantially more resistant to failure and can take a lot of damage without losing much power output. The list goes on. I won't compare prices because there are too many variables in the choices you can make and those choices are largely based on need and personal preference. But the short version is that you are probably better off getting a conventional setup if you're putting panels on a rooftop that has good exposure at a fixed angle because you can save thousands of dollars. But nothing beats thin-film for portability or low-light performance so it is your best choice -- indeed, the only practical choice -- for backpacking, bike trailers, camper tops, etc. Now comparing the PowerFilm to a similar style system like, for example, the ACOPower 120W portable solar panel... that would be useful information.
im liking the full package , the one that has the Solar power generator. full package is $770 and it comes with a decent charge controller & 20-ft AWG cables. Very affordable & I can purchase piece by piece. - Im definitely saving up for this package. Thanks for the great info :)
That Goal Zero plug looks like one of standard laptop power adaptor plugs, see here: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-set-Universal-1x28-DC-Power-5-5-2-1mm-Jack-to-28-Plug-Adapter-Notebook-Laptop-/400833431079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d5388c627 There are dimensions of each plug down in the description, I bet one of the plugs will be a direct match.
Krzysztof Cygan Their small connectors are 4.7mm connectors (on their older stuff) and their larger connectors are 8mm, which I never found a source for. I see tha tkit has a 7.9mm - maybe close enougH? They now have several adapters on their website. Some of their items used 6mm plugs (like the Light a Life lamps), which are available in that link.
Both of these are waaay too overpriced. Idk why the small portable ones have to be so expensive when a normal 120 watt panel in like 150 - 200 dollars...
Davey Gregg emphasis on portability. Also the powerfilm is more durable. I've literally seen people shoot holes in theirs and it still works. try that with a regular solar panel. 😂
I'd do the electric bike hands down if I charged it in my rigs all day or if I had a apartment lifestyle... homeless traveling gas is more useful ..I can make either work
John Ward Indeed - at the end of the day you're paying for a capability - 120 watts in under 7 pounds and something that can fold up and fit in a backpack!
Yawn. You have one of those voices that either put people to sleep or just make people shut you out. You make topics less interesting no matter the subject. With that ( and because I can) I bid you good riddance. Next!™
Thanks, great video. Very helpful. The Powerfilm wins it for me for ease of setup and hassle free operation but I appreciate that you didnt take sides but pointed out the strengths of each.
Appreciate the through evaluation. I have 2 GZ 30 watt rugged folding case panel and an Insatspark MARS100 briefcase panel. I use both with my power system on my camping trailer and with GZ equipment and they are effective and i love them. But your test, the portability, and a vid of powerFilm still working after being shot has convinced me to move to Powerfilm in the future. Gear always gets abused in the field, and powerFilm seems to take tough to the next level. Add to that the space saving and flexibility, and you have a winner IMHO. Please keep up the good work
wow, great comparision testing. Thx for sharing it on the internet. Great for campers on camping trips when off the grid.
Thank you for this excellent video, which is deeply informative and unbiased. I wish other product comparisons were this clear and pragmatic! Thanks again for sharing your expertise!
Thanks very much for watching! My viewers are the reason I do these!
Excellent video. I run 3 different panels from 3 different companies on my sailboat and have read and heard a lot of (anecdotal) testimonies from other sailors indicating brand and expense often don't equate to more output. I wont mention brand, but the number one el cheapo 100w panels (flexible and rigid) on amazon when set up right are decent rivals for the expensive brands and can last for years. Of course everything is dependent on application and how serious you want to be with energy output. Thanks for the testing guys.
Skipper Hawk Thanks for watching! If you are referring to Renogy panels, I must admit that they have pleasantly surprised me. A friend (W4EDF) purchased a 60watt suitcase charger for under $230 and I thought there was no way it would work and sure enough, it put out an honest 58-60 watts even when not in perfectly perpendicular solar conditions!
... I need to become rich so I can buy things for you and have you review them before I do it. Amazing, amazing comparison
It should be noted that a flat panel with not adjustment potential would perform at its optimal potential at high noon and significantly decrease thereafter, making the tripod design a more power sustainable design.
Good breakdown of each systems capabilities! Appreciate the test!
This was a great video. A great scientific comparison. This is what amateur radio is all about; experimentation and discovery. Thanks - kb4twn
Thanks for being unbiased. I checked up on the pricing, since it wasn't super well covered. Powerfilm ranges from $1,200-$1,700 online. If you piece together the kit from Goal Zero it's only $1,020. Just another factor to consider... Cheers.
I didn't cover pricing in depth because, especially on the Goal Zero side, it can be wildly variable due to promotions and coupon codes. My next test for the big panels is to run a test between both in to identical loads to test total power generation performance. I think the PowerFilm will have an advantage here based on measurements of their smaller panels.
Thank you for this review, very helpful and well done.
***** Thanks for watching!
Could use the flat panel as a tarp, that way it wont take any ground space :)
PowerFilm 120 is $1800 + $100 shipping. That is outragous considering the fact that a 100W flexible solar panel that can be rolled up and weighs 4lbs is only $112 w/free shipping on Alibaba and has highest quality Sunpower solar cells. The flexible Sunpower panel measures only 41"x21" and less than a dime thick..
Rob K First of all, its 1300 like everywhere I look. And I mean several links. second of all, where tf are you finding it for 100 shipping?! Lmao. Its $20 to ship for me. That's $580 less than what you're quoting. Get real
@Bruno Gianelli No matter how you put it 1.2K for this is insane.
I'd love to see a side by side comparison like this in less than ideal conditions: a partially cloudy day, dawn, or dusk.
In the Pacific NW, [or anywhere there's cloudage blocking direct solar], can orient that frame so panels are basically horizontal, and let cloud reflectance hit them omnidirectionally.
You can throw the panels on the roof of your vehicle, which is what I do with my 20w panel. Id like to see them add grommets along the side and the panel can be suspended between trees and it could double as shelter from the sun or rain.
Hands down winner Powerfilm. If you can't carry it with you it does you no good. Less moving or parts to break or lose. JMHO
It's funny. I've seen this video before and wouldn't have noticed the call sign before, nor the references to Field Day. Cool stuff. Got my Tech this past September, and will hopefully have time to pursue my General this spring or summer. -73 KC3JUG
I would not call the Gold Zero option "portable" by any means
Not something you would use while backpacking but it is portable for extended car camping/ overlanding.
powerfilm looks impressive, something i would use as a tarp on the beach or in the jungle: to cover up those deadly rays and run a couple fans!
you should use tent poles or something with that powerfilm
Thank you so much for doing this .
Thanks for posting your experience. I'd love to hear more about moisture problems you experienced. Did you expose them to rain? Humidity? Flooding? Snow? Dew/condensation? I think it's important to know the limitations. Also, what do you mean by "destroyed"? In what way? It's not that the panels are 2-3 times more inefficient, it's that their panels don't require being aimed directly at the sun. I'll have to do another video with the G0 panels parallel with the surface of the earth!
There are also some other factors to consider. (I have no stock or ownership in PowerFilm). If you go to SolarFilm website you will see video tests where they shoot their array with 9@ .40 caliber bullets and it is still working, with its output only slightly diminished. I suspect that if you put 1 hole in the rigid panels from Goal Zero, you just might get a zero output.
Also, watch the video where PowerFilm tests their array against a standard array with some slight shading. They position what appears to be a 4x4 vertical posts (one in front of each array) which throws a small shadow across both their and a competitor's array during a typical charging day. The degradation in the competitive panel is much, much more due to the way they are wired internally. That test simulates less than perfect sun days with some cloud cover or possibly a shadow of a tree. Vast difference in performance with the PowerFilm greatly outdoing the competition.
Informative and well produced video.
It's amazing that the Powerfilm setup is more expensive than Goal Zero, I didn't think that was possible with the price that gz charges for their stuff. Interesting comparison though, I didn't think the film panel laying out the ground even had a shot of being anywhere near as efficient as the panels aimed at the sun.
In any case, neither setup is really what I would call affordable. I picked up 2 230w 24v panels locally a couple of years ago for under $300 each. One of those with a charge controller and a battery are less than half the cost of either of these and potentially almost double the peak output. It's a hard sell, even though I know these setups are both made to be portable.
sandman x The large home sized panels are definitely a better value for sure, and compared to the Goal Zero Boulder 30 array, they may even be easier to work with. I can't prove it, but I would be willing to bet you would get more watts if you were to aim the PowerFilm at the sun.
1. Can you not throw-down the GZ flat just like the PowerFilm? Negates the follow the sun argument.
2. I like the fact that you provide real numbers... I would add note about solar power factor as that varies with location, atmosphere, etc. and accounts for why most panels can never deliver design output... Mother Nature doesn't give us 100% solar.
3. As far as real numbers "120w panel" does not deliver 120w to the load... per above and as revealed by "7200mAH" is ideally 102w delivered at 14.2 to the load.
Thanks!
This was a very informative and entertaining video sir you’ve got my like thank you
Power film rocks , i use small one r28 and i love it , easy in backpack and always ready to just unroll ;)
powerfilm... worth the weight difference ...who wants to move this thing all around all day long....not efficient for an outing...Great review!!!!
Goal Zero's Nomad 100wt chained with the Nomad 20wt, and you can throw it on the ground, and the cost is about $900... instead of $1300 ...for your powerfilm... you should do an update on this...
Great research & content - thank you!
I would say hands down for the powerfilm, you can poke holes in it & still work, plus it will work in part sun, & the military uses it do,iyes I did my research, For $1400.00 dollars I would pay for it in a heart beat, the quality is there for me, going to pick it up for a Cambodia trip in the jungle, with a Yeti 400, want have to worry about anything except for mosquitoes, LOL,,,, .
Great video, it changed my mind about what I'm taking to Cambodia, ( the Power Film ). plus the weight factor & dimensions that will be perfect flying with it as luggage, is a selling point also, the zero, to bulky, its a zero for me.
Thanks again guys, give you a excellent thumbs up !
Thanks, im going with power film products!
You could always put tall steaks in the ground to "angle" the powerfilm panel towards the sun. Could pull you some extra amperage
Pretty sure that the horse trailer in the parking lot will create considerable variation in your results. You should have discussed that.
I know this video is going on four years old, but I'd be really curious, if you still have both units, to do a comparison in partial shade. Say, for example, compare the output with 5%, 10%, 25%, 50% of the panel covered, and how well they do, say, in a forest under random leaf cover.
PowerFilm states that their big advantage is better performance when partially shaded, and I'd love to see how that works out in a real life test, because right now I'm struggling to justify $1300+ for 120 watts when 265 watts of residential panel costs $250.
Bruno Gianelli thank you for sharing your experience. I am aware of that video, and I understand the rationale by which the powerfilm panel should work better, but I consider that "advertising" and not a real world test, since the video is made by powerfilm to convince one to purchase their product. It would never show their gear in a bad light, or they would not release it.
It's that bias I want to remove.
Thank you! Although it may seem unscientific and pedestrian, that tells quite a lot about the performance when partly shaded, and really quickly shows that the PowerFilm marketing videos are actually based in a fair amount of truth.
What is the lifespan for the PowerFlim Rollable? I've my sights set on two 60w Rollables by PowerFilm to be semi-permanently attached to a structure on our property in northern California, but at the price point it's important they are durable enough to survive.
+Impartial Tech Our modules are incredibly durable and will stand up to weather. The life span will however will greatly be determined by what the panels are exposed to.
from what I've understood it not just about the solar charger but more to do with the solar batteries pack? so what's the best batteries pack to store more power? how about a video on that.
METHOD MAN You design the battery pack for your needs. Start by understanding what your needs are based on what you are operating and whether you want to go with Lead or Lithium based chemistry. You then pick the charger that is needed to support your battery requirements. For more information, check out my video: ruclips.net/video/8SuvAKZt0Vs/видео.html&spfreload=10 it's long, but all the information you need is in there!
Perfect... i'll be checking that out right now. Thanks
I dig durability and portable. Weight and size can change everything
You had concerns about the thickness of the cable. What were the losses?
super super super helpful. thank you.
Suggestion for aiming the solar panels:
Using the calculations and trying to set them on your tripod depends upon it being perpendicular to the earth (not exactly the best terminology).
Here’s a simpler method. Use something like a toy dart gun dart. Or you could create your own just make the shaft perpendicular to the base.. Set this on your solar panel and notice the shadow it casts. Move your panel until the shadow disappears. Now it’s perpendicular to the sun no matter where it is. The idea being that the shadow falls on itself.
I like the foldable panels but the price is a bit much. Maybe there is a less expensive one?
Great advice! I started using a toothpick in the middle of the solid array to follow the sun.
Hi, great presentation ;) could you tell me what software you use to produce the graphic overlays for your video? They are really, really amazing. Congrats. I do hope you share your graphic secret.
Everything is edited using Final Cut Pro X
KF7IJZ
it's great for camping as roof, for camper van as shade !! they have to be huge and weatherproof and foldable etc !
When you used the power film to power your station... What did you store the power in?
New updates are available.
In Kentucky, we have our fair share of overcast days.
Knowing that power film is is more more sensitive to ultraviolet light, you should test on a cloudy day.
I think you will be shocked with the results.
Pat - Ai4W
Great idea Pat! I may try this over the winter break where we have a lot of overcast days!
How well have your PowerFilm 120 held up over the years?
Have you found a place to buy the 8mm proprietary plugs that goal zero puts on their V2 (boulder) panels by chance?
Larry Greenup I have not - this was not something that DigiKey used to stock. What I did was buy other adapters and cut the ends off and terminate with Anderson Power Poles. Another viewer recently pointed me at a set of DC laptop adapters that came in 26 different sizes. One of them was 7.9 mm, so that might be a match. If you find something please post!
could put the power film on an awning.
+Wendl Ward For field day a few years ago, we did that on our 10x10 portable shelter.
HELP my parents have 4 boulder 30 panels and we have NO battery!!! I was looking at the yeti 400 and just charge up AGM deep cycle batteries. Please please please help me and tell me what is the best battery system to use with 4 boulder 30's at 120 watt max and 10 amp max from panels to a solar controller. I am wondering what is best yeti 1250 or like 4or8 agm marine batteries. If you can list battery name and specs I will go buy it
The pity is powerfilm is SO expensive..
+myreddays I don't know how anyone could afford Powerfilm. Nice idea but price point is out of hand.
But made in america and sooooo flexible in use case
They’re not THAT expensive! I was expecting silly money and hoping for around £1k when I just search for them. Turns out they’re £973, fine by me. I’ll buy a set and stick them in the attic for SHTF time, hopefully it’s a CME and I’ll get uber power. 👀
The pity is I need a 300w blanket for my ebike battery, 600w would be better.
myreddays if I can buy one and I'm on college only making $15 an hour, and pay everything by myself, then you can too! You CAN afford it, you might have to save a little, and not eat avocado toast every morning and drink $6 beers, but you can afford it 🤷♂️
Very nice comparison. Thanks
They keep claiming that thin film is cheaper to make well they sure aren't passing the savings on to the public which is extremely shame because they could take the heat better than silicone. Love the power test and chart...
SolarizeYourLife I unfortunately don't know enough about the chemistry to comment, but I met a gentleman at Dayton who was the most knowledgeable person about PV chemistries that I've ever met. He has a PhD and just started selling his own integrated charge controller/battery units. The site is solar24.pw .
SolarizeYourLife The Goal Zero Yeti 150 Solar Generator is a gas free source of portable power to keep lights, phones and laptops powered on through any
situation. get it here amzn.to/1SZWGjN
You better have a real good reason and income to justify a $1200 foldable panel. Lmao
I have a goal zero yeti 150. It didn't come with a solar panel though. I thought it was included since it was pictured with one and of course I didn't research enough because I have kids and a lot of distractions around me. I was looking for a solar panel FOR this generator and they are NOT cheap, heck, 250 for the generator was expensive to me. Would I be able to use a cheaper type that is not the same brand, and what would I need to make THAT work and connect to it. The guy at Goal Zero company didn't tell me much, but he did say as long as the panel has MC4 connections and an 8mm adapter THAT should work. Thing is, I don't know the first thing about panels or which ones have MC4 connectors. Do you or can you help me with what types I could get for under 50 dollars. The cheapest but not TOO shitty of a brand would be helpful. Thanks for any advice,
To help you a person needs to know what you want to charge for how long. And how many hours you use it. In the world of solar energy there's no silver bullet. Much of it has to do with the thing your charging your usage. And, your ability to conserve. Once a person knows what you wanna charge. Then a kit can be recommended.
With goal zero you have to read the box cause the same thing happened to me.
You should start simple powering a phone. With solar battery charger. Then move up to a lab top. Once you got the hang of that, try powering, a lamp. Then a t.v. that's enough for this stuff. To power and a.c. or fridge you need major panels and generators.
Also you should try a solar cooker. So you can begin to use less electricity. By using the Sun to slow cook meals. I used it for months. Like I said saving energy, no magic thing. It's a combo. In the case of the solar oven. That's 1000 something watts I don't need. Weather solar or wall. The natural reflective sun oven prevents you from needing to buy pannels, for your oven.
Can any and all solar panels be connected to a Goal Zero?
Was there any response as to why they only produced approximately 90 watts?
jb76489 There was note, but when you think about it, there really are a lot of factors. Usually when companies give a rating to their products, they do so in the most optimum conditions (high noon sun at the equator with raw exposed cells).
Yeah that makes sense. Thanks for the quick response
I am not that knowledgeable with terms you're using. I would like to ask. What can I use this for? Meaning how many things can I hook up to it?
Example tv?
iPhone?
Electric stove?
Fridge-raider?
Backup batteries?
I think if you can explain in terms of time base on mah (iPhone or iPad) it could help me understand.
Damn, I want this stuff for my future house...
is it possible to charge a 19 v - laptop with this? (sorry, noobquestion... im a noob)
+Felis Extraterrestris If you look, you can find 12V Laptop power supplies. Radio Shack used to carry several. I have one that I use to power a Lenovo T430 for the field. THere are also some available on Amazon, but they seem to be harder to come by and more expensive. Look for Auto/Airline laptop adapters. There are no official ones available for Macs.
KF7IJZ
thx for the answer. i got a 12v car adapter. it changes the 12v from the car battery to 230 V (eu). i could put the laptop power supply plugged in that adapter, but that seems like a step too many to me... and i am not sure if that would destroy something in that row... laptop, power supply, adapter and/or solar panel.
Sounds like you have an inverter, which is a common practice to do what you're looking to do, however it is terribly inefficient to take DC12V up to AC230 back down to DC19.
KF7IJZ
yeah (didnt know the name of that thing), and yeah... i will look for an adapter you described. thanks for your help :)
+Felis Extraterrestris take a goal zero sherpa 100 or goal zero sherpa 50 you can charge laptops with it
Very helpful, much appreciated. Thanks!
I like to use a tv 10.2 in running at 8.5 whats in my tent when I am camping . off a motor bike battery 12 v 22 a hours will the power film do the job .what I am saying is can you fix it up to a motor bike battery . and on a hot day with blue skys how long will it take to top the battery up from the flat . please ?
keith rice Since I don't recommend discharging your battery below 12v-11.8v, that would give you half the rated capacity, or 11Ah. Converted to watt hours, we're at 132Wh of charge. That means you could run your TV safely for 15 hours (assuming 8.5 watts as you've said). The 120 watt panel would have no problem getting that battery charged up in less than a day - check out Genasun for a good portable charge controller.
Beware excessive power in this case. The charge current of that small battery is probably around 2 amps so while it will work, there's no particular advantage to using a 100 watt solar panel on a small battery that only wants 30 watts (or so).
and you haven't even flattened out the power film yet. and you can also just put it on top of the car hood when car camping.
For Field Day one year, I mounted the power film on the top of our 10x10 canopy shade. Worked a treat!
Don’t get it... if you’re overlanding, why not just buy a standard mono crystalline panel (200-215w) and store it neatly in the truck? Right?
I think that’s what I’m gonna do.
thinfilm panels got way better lowlight performance perfect for rainy and cloudy days
what about break down times?? In an emergency who is fastest to put away??.The power film could be placed on the hood of a car, the awning of an RV.
why wouldn't someone just buy one or 2 bigger 100w panels? what's the benefit of 4 panels at 30w each?
+Tim Quinn At the time I acquired the array, Goal Zero did not yet make larger fixed panels than 30 watts.
My big panels won't fit in an automobile. Four smaller panels is a bit of a nuisance but travels nicely. Also, sometimes I don't need 80 watts when 20 will suffice. Obviously the thin film travels even more nicely. Glass covered, aluminum edged monocrystalline solar panels will last a REALLY long time, I still have one from 1980. Not as performing as once was the case but still works. I have a small flexible solar panel but other than experimentally have never used it.
Great Job! Much appreciated.... KD2DIX
I think I would just lay that power film on the hood of my truck, even if its bigger then hood, that way I don't step on it
Probably not a bad idea, as these are not cheap panels :)
The goal zero can charge the yeti series from goal zero.
Jevin Wilson They both can. The Yeti 1250 has an Anderson PowerPole port for solar input, and you can also make an adapter with the cables available from GoalZero directly.
Used PF product. Moisture destroyed it during few weeks.Need more sun area because efficiency 2-3 times lower then mono crystal.Yes it's very light but too expensive and has short life.
Is the Foldable rain proof?
+Impartial Tech Some are rain resistant but the rollables are waterproof.
Wow, great review and information. I guess you pay for portability, thats for sure.
The PowerFilm has more surface area, that's why I think the PowerFilm is performing better.
That certainly is one factor. The materials that cover the actual solar cells themselves also factor in to the total efficiency equation as well.
No, it takes more area for thin films because they are less efficient solar wise, ~5% thinffilm vs ~15% silicon... , but thinfilm likes heat where silicon wants to run cooler...
could you hook the goal zero panels together and then... to save time.. screw the damn tripod and lay it on the ground.. or lean it against an adjustable bendy tripod that is grippy or just some object.. I donno lol
Gilbert Flowerface Absolutely you can. When I first started using Boulder 15 panels, that's exactly what I did. I eventually had a friend build me a custom rig to attach them to a tripod. Being able to reposition them to improve performance is a very handy feature. Getting the panels off the ground is also handy so no one steps on them!
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ruclips.net/user/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Whoa, these things are over $2000 each......
The Powerfilm 120 watt foldable panel is available for $1,200 from CaliforniaPC dot com.
KF7IJZ Beat me to it and they also sell a kit with the Goal Zero Yeti 1200 which would cover about any emergency. It will run a fridge, unplug the fridge it would run a 900 watt microwave and run 12 volt coolers or other 12 volt products. I have a couple Goal Zeros a Yeti 400 for lighting, computer and modem and a 100 watt for just lighting downstairs or also to power the modem. I have to 30 watt brief case panels but would love to replace my emergency gas generator with their Powerfilm and Goal Zero Yeti 1200.
KF7IJZ Yep - still super expensive
This is a pointless comparison, like comparing a particular motorcycle to a certain car. Each serves a unique function that it will excel at where the other will be deficient. Consider the benefits and shortcomings of each type of panel:
Conventional panels will always be the most efficient at producing power in full sun but do very poorly when the light is obstructed by clouds, trees, etc. Even if a few leaves drop on them, power can fall considerably.
Thin-film isless efficient in full sun than the conventional panels but continue to deliver power in low light. Even in the woods or under heavy cloud cover, they keep putting out power long after a conventional panel has completely shut down.
Conventional panels need to be oriented toward the sun for maximum efficiency, while thin-film works even at an extreme angle, albeit with reduced efficiency but it keeps working. Conventional is more easily damaged and stops working when broken. Thin-film is substantially more resistant to failure and can take a lot of damage without losing much power output.
The list goes on. I won't compare prices because there are too many variables in the choices you can make and those choices are largely based on need and personal preference.
But the short version is that you are probably better off getting a conventional setup if you're putting panels on a rooftop that has good exposure at a fixed angle because you can save thousands of dollars. But nothing beats thin-film for portability or low-light performance so it is your best choice -- indeed, the only practical choice -- for backpacking, bike trailers, camper tops, etc.
Now comparing the PowerFilm to a similar style system like, for example, the ACOPower 120W portable solar panel... that would be useful information.
im liking the full package , the one that has the Solar power generator. full package is $770 and it comes with a decent charge controller & 20-ft AWG cables.
Very affordable & I can purchase piece by piece. - Im definitely saving up for this package. Thanks for the great info :)
over $600 for 120 watts.... Are they high
survivial situation goal zero = die power film =live
1500 dollars sat on the floor, good luck mate.
That Goal Zero plug looks like one of standard laptop power adaptor plugs, see here: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-set-Universal-1x28-DC-Power-5-5-2-1mm-Jack-to-28-Plug-Adapter-Notebook-Laptop-/400833431079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d5388c627
There are dimensions of each plug down in the description, I bet one of the plugs will be a direct match.
Krzysztof Cygan Their small connectors are 4.7mm connectors (on their older stuff) and their larger connectors are 8mm, which I never found a source for. I see tha tkit has a 7.9mm - maybe close enougH? They now have several adapters on their website. Some of their items used 6mm plugs (like the Light a Life lamps), which are available in that link.
wtf, who can even afford these panels reviewed here?? get a semi flexible panel with same rated output for 10%??
Your answer is ? Which one does the Military use.??...............Duh..........
Both of these are waaay too overpriced. Idk why the small portable ones have to be so expensive when a normal 120 watt panel in like 150 - 200 dollars...
Davey Gregg emphasis on portability. Also the powerfilm is more durable. I've literally seen people shoot holes in theirs and it still works. try that with a regular solar panel. 😂
$1500 for the foldable one. WAY out of most people's range for sure.
+Steven Feil It definitely is. For less than $250, you can get a Renogy ridge suitcase 100 watt panel.
I'd do the electric bike hands down if I charged it in my rigs all day or if I had a apartment lifestyle... homeless traveling gas is more useful ..I can make either work
can we sleep under this
As a homeless guy in the woods its useful
Goal Zero means you end up with no money in your checking account
wing nuts lol
PowerFilm is prohibitively expensive
Lol... new updates available! Lol... update your laptop!
so expensive
John Ward Indeed - at the end of the day you're paying for a capability - 120 watts in under 7 pounds and something that can fold up and fit in a backpack!
Yawn. You have one of those voices that either put people to sleep or just make people shut you out. You make topics less interesting no matter the subject. With that ( and because I can) I bid you good riddance. Next!™