I see gold bars (Perth Mint, etc) all the time in local sales posts. Almost every time I reply with "I'm interested and would like to know if I can test with a precious metals verifier", which mostly stops the suspicious sellers immediately. From super chatty to radio silence. Definitely better to avoid when there is any doubt.
I bought a bunch of them on ebay, they all got good rating, if they sell fake bar then somebody would of gave them a negative, most of my gold are in the 100k feedback rating, that is when u know that they are real.
I began buying this year At first I was told to buy bars because of lower premium but then I found that it would be hard to sell. I am selling my bars ack to the dealer but it is very slow on their end.
Yep 100% let the kids deal with the headache of selling it and worrying if it's real or fake when the time comes LOL I love essay cards as long as they're real first gold bar was a pamp fake
It's because of how much of a pain in the butt gold bars in the assay are to test that I've avoided them. I'd rather pay more for something that's easier to test and more recognizable. Thanks!
Does the value really go down though? JMBullion pays the same for generic 1 oz gold in any condition. Which is basically spot. I always cut mine out of the cards.
What you have is a thick coated Tungsten bar . I bought one of these did same tests same results. Tried to bend it would not bend at all. Drilled on center and sure enough was Tungsten. Specific gravity of Tungsten and Gold within .01% very difficult to distinguish magnetically and or dimensionally. Have to bend bar. If it bends easily it’s gold. If it’s solid it’s Tungsten. I’m willing to bet it’s Tungsten.
A ping sound test should help in determining if it's gold or plated tungsten. The real bar will have a nice gold gingle vs a fake tungsten it will have a thud or no sound at all.
Yes tested on Sigma Pro. Even had bar xRF tested. Got exact same results as you did. Bought off EBay. Seller allowed my LCS to do a bend test. You must do bend test 2 directions. Long end bend and diagonal bend. Only way to be sure is drill bar on center. We broke a drill bit trying to drill through after trying bend test. I was able to return for full refund.
@@leonidas953 There are repositories out there that deal with thicker bars and they use sound to test for plating. Whether it is a ultrasonic thickness gauge or an ultrasound scanner it is the only sure proof way to determine if there are inserts inside other than drilling. With a thinner bar you can still use the concept of sound without any gauge or scanner.
It's very easy for forgers to forge the cardboard the metals in ,,if they can forge the metal they can forge the card ,,only buy from reputable dealers 🤔
Last year I traded all my RMC bars for maples straight trade to a local coin shop. After seeing so many fake 1oz. Bars online I’ve moved away from them and only have gold coins.
The assay cards just create another expense that never existed before. I like the idea of dissolving gold in aqua regia and precipitating it into a brown powder to keep in a jar. Less likely anybody would be interested in stealing it if they don't even know it is there. I can always melt it when selling it if they prefer. Little plastic plant decoration..
I sold three ounces of gold during the height of the pandemic. I had a Canadian Gold Maple, An English coin and a Canadian .9999 bar in an assay card. They gave me spot on the two coins and barely looked at them. The bar they broke out of the case and did a number of tests on it and I got Spot - $100 on the bar. Just something to think about if your looking to buy gold.
They don’t want you to open it because it’s fake.if it’s real gold by taking it out the packaging it won’t devalue it it’s all ways the price of the value of gold at that time.
Great video, thank you for the information. If I were in your position, though, I think I'd go ahead and sell it myself rather than passing it onto my kids. Since you know all of the things to prove it is gold now, you have a better chance of getting a fair return on it. If you pass it down, what if they need/or want to sell it, but you're not able to share that info with them for whatever reason? They may end up getting undercut for it. Better that you sell it to ensure you're getting the most out of it. It's a beautiful bar, but I personally wouldn't trust my kids with it. But anyway that's just my take on it. Very informative, thanks again.
At my shop I do buy assayed bars but I bust them out of the package and cut them in half they have to agree to this before I do. I only pay right at spot for them anyway. You won't believe how many I have found to have another piece of metal in the middle.
An XRF can absolutely penetrate into a material. I work in the mining industry. we use XRF extensively. We expect up to 10mm of penetration into a rock sample.
How about that several tons of copper infused gold plated gold that got discovered a few years ago from China? It was held as collateral for years and only discovered after the collateral was called and tested.
This video definitely answered several questions I've had regarding why 1 ounce gold bars have very, very low premiums. I was so tempted to buy a few welk-known bars, but now I know why I wouldn't. Thank-you for the thorough explanation. I'll stay with Eagles, Buffaloes and Maple Leafs.
Anything and everything can be faked, even coins. You are better off getting a metal analyzer/verifier like he has if you are serious about accumulating precious metals. Yes, it will cost you $1,200 and up but if it saves you from one mistake then you are ahead.
I did a recent video on a 2014 Libertad (silver) and had the same issue with the standard Sigma. It measured on the scale but was out of the brackets by a few ticks. Very curious. I did 5 other tests on it that all passed and I came to the conclusion that it was real. Maybe the mixture was off a bit or they only had .996 or .997. Not really sure why the standard Sigma didn't work...although I know they are not perfect. They are verifiers, not guaranteers 😀Great video SD.
I stay away from Gold for the reasons you discussed to much fake and the equipment to test is expensive. And the ROI ( return on Investment).is not worth the risk over silver IMO.
No gold bars for me, at least yet. For that matter I only have a handful of silver bars and the majority of those are ten ouncers. Thanks for the video SD, keep stacking!
I have bought gold bars and coins from SD Bullion, BOLD PM, JM Bullion, and Monument Metals, all during 2022. The only bar is a 1 oz gold Perth Mint from SD Bullion and it is in the original assay. The others are all 2022 coins in capsules or sleeves: British Sovereign, 1/4 Canada Gold Maple, 1/4 gold Kangaroo, 1/4 gold Britannia, and 1/4 gold Perth Lunar 2023 Rabbit. (I wanted 2022 coins with Queen Eliz II) Do I have any reason to be suspect of these products from these dealers? I don't have the fancy testing equipment. Would these dealers ever acquire fake gold bars/coins and resell them without testing their authenticity? Could I end up with a fake that slipped in to their inventory by mistake (or not?)? How concerned should I be?
I take all my bars out the cards I’ve sold loads of gold and it hasn’t mattered that it isn’t in the assay card. All dealers will test the bars either way they definitely don’t rely on those assay cards to prove authenticity. Admittedly if you’ve got a rare bar or a collectible bar it’s best to leave in the assay
I also always get them out of the blisters and never have a problem with reputable dealers. Were previously always purchased at the current daily rate on the website. When I was once with a small gold buyer who buys something like dental gold or jewelry from private individuals, he actually tried to persuade me that they can only buy it as scrap gold because I opened the essay card. As I then told him that he could forget about that and that I would look for someone else, he wanted to negotiate again 🤣
That's one of the best things about coins. They have a known size and weight which can't be replicated by counterfeits. Same idea you were showing here with the bars.
Great video very informative. I had an issue with silver also even on the sigma (basic one) an older trade unit. Only item I have cut in half and was real. Lol
As soon you said that gold value decreases when you take it out of its package, I just stop watching the video because one of the first things you said was 🐂💩
I dislike Gold for this very reason. Too much money in one investment that may go bad. If this was a silver bar/coin and you got it from a dealer who was scamming/lazy/incompetent. You are only out 30 some dollars (1oz). If you do this with gold you are out thousands of dollars. My local coin shop doesn't always catch everything (morgan dollars) so there is some risk no matter what.
If it's 1 deal ,you're right. But I'm assuming you're a stacker ,so let's say you buy a couple hundred oz of fake silver over a 2-3 year period then you're kinda in the same boat. So gold vs silver doesn't matter as much as its more of a you should be testing everything no matter what or who sells it to you
Also, after you get over 500 ounces of silver it gets too heavy to carry. My goal is to be able to carry my entire stash in an airline carry-on case. That means most of the value has to be gold.
My local coin shop said they don't ike seeing pamp or Perth. They said because they are so popular they are faked alot. So he pays under spot for them if at all. On the other hand he said he liked my Geiger bar and would pay spot for that any day
0:23 It won't go down in value. Gold is gold and that's why there's a global spot price. By taking it out of the assay, you just lessen the likelihood of being able to charge a premium on top of the spot price.
@@eazye519 Yes, it will be worth the global spot price as a minimum, which is what I said in my comment. But it can't be worth less than spot price (I.e the value of the gold).
Gold has a premium regardless of the package. Take the gold out and test before you buy. You will only sell gold for a premium to individuals. No refinery or coin shop is going to buy your gold with a premium. I deal with two. At the least I get 98% for bullion from refineries or as of late, I get spot price. Silver rounds I get spot price plus $5 premiums for generic rounds and bars.
@@eazye519 Not when you bought gold when it was low. No one is buying gold for $1700 with a premium of $80. Then trying to sell it for $1700. I bought 10 bars in July 2019. $1400. I paid $33 USD to $60 over spot. I sold six this year. Four for $1800, One for $1820 and One last month for $1671. I did not get a premium when I sold. But I made money.
@@P8REN Gold is only worth what you sell it for. Yes there is a spot price. But if you sell it below spot price, then it is worth less than spot when you sell it. However, if you bought the gold for less than the current spot price at which you are selling, plus the premium and are making a profit, then who cares?
It's funny how the assay card around the bar, is actually an impediment to independent assay, of the bar. Really, in a world of counterfeiters, a card today is a meaningless artifact of a day when you could trust things based on someone's word. So instead of the anachronistic assay card, perhaps they should provide nothing more than a plastic capsule for their gold bars. That way, as the gold goes through it's never ending life, as an investment metal, you can get at the gold to test it (specific gravity being the definitive proof).
if it were me. I wouldn't buy assay, but proven bars from a lcs right in front of me after testing. makes me wonder why these companies don't put security features right on to the bar itself though. I know some do, but it is not often.
Great content. I buy Aussie gold coins & bars for the most part, because I intend to settle down in the Philippines in the next 5 or so years, and there are plenty of Aussie tourists and the continent is fairly close by.
You taking it with you? I don't think countries let you come in with any more than $10k in precious metal. I use kinesis and bitcoin for this reason. I can cash out into physical gold at any global kinesis vault globally.
@@lennybrewster4673 I'm considering PAXG (Pax Gold), another gold-backed token by Paxos. That seems to be where the physical gold coming off the Comex & LBMA winds up. And I'll bring in several ounces each time I travel to visit family there so I'm set when the time comes. Be well!
Thank you for your video, as always. I kinda envy you that advanced Sigma verifier. I wanted it too but when I finally gathered all the money necessary, it got sold out :-). Actually, do you know about any website that let's you verify your gold bars by their serial number (i.e. you enter the serial and get information about the bar)?
I have tried to bend a 1oz bar from Argo and Valcambi. To my surprise. It’s not easy to bend it by using fingers. I even put it in between the door frame and door and it took quite a bit of force to bend it. I got it from SD Bullion, so I don’t think they sells fake gold plated tungsten bars. Anyone has any different experience with trying to bend it?
Great video…I am always learning something new on your channel,great information. I do have a quick question? Should I invest into a Sigma metalytics pro machine as well? I actually already invested in the standard sigma metalytics verifier you showed in the beginning, where you just set the coin on top and run. I know the pro runs approximately almost $900 more. Is the standard one not that accurate? Again great videos,any information would be appreciated,God bless.
Yep, true XRF machines are xray machines and so can recognise entirely what they are made of. This is why they cost between $15000 -$30000 to buy. Many YT vids on this.
There's probably tungsten rods inside that bar, that's a common trick they do in Chinese black market. They hollow out the bar and put tungsten rods inside.
All these tests you’re doing should be done on the gold article outside it’s packaging. Even using an xrf. No point if it’s got it’s packaging. Accuracy is still uncertain.
I recently purchased a one-ounce bar from an online precious metal dealer that prides itself on being very low priced. They had a sale on a brand of bars and I purchased one. The bar turned out to have a prominent defect on it. When I contacted the dealer, they acted like this was normal. Long story somewhat short, there was no resolution to this and I will never purchase anything from them again. But buying the defective bar led me to go to a local coin dealer (to ask what could have caused the peculiar defect) and he gave me an education on bars. For one thing, he said that the Chinese have made some kind of spray that they put on the bars they produce so that anyone who tries to test them can't tell that they are fake. No more bars for me, only coins. Thank goodness I only have a few bars (but they are from a more reliable and trustworthy dealer than the one I bought this bar from).
I only trust gold coins! Plus they have numismatic collector value on top of the intrinsic gold value! And you don't have to worry about counterfeits and you don't have to test it. You can weigh it and that's enough
Great informative vid, thanks ! I look very sharp to how the dealer reacts to my questions and listen very well how his answers sound instead of listening what he/she has to say primairily... Only one chance to do it right. If some seller looses patience or gets irritated, its a no go for sure !
I've been telling people for years to stay away from bars for this reason. Coins are so much easier to test due to being "raw" and having published specs. I even have a Sigma Verifier. Only exception is if you live in Asia where they have a strong bias to bars. And i always preach that you should not buy "what you like". But instead buy "what your future buyers will likely like".
Bars are fine if buy from a reputable company and especially if have receipts. I had never sold any bars before until last week. Sold a couple scottsdale bars at a coin shop and was surprised how easy and quick it was. They were happy to buy it and offered 99.6% of the spot price without haggling.
So nice and all, but... 1. Specific gravity is effectively the same thing as density, which is what can be fooled by using something with a similar weight like tungston, so... little reason to be sure it is gold then. 2. You can be sure it's real gold by buying it directly from the mint. 3. Usually bars are sold where I live without any sort of packaging to begin with.
Perth Mint bars are serialised, which is far from a perfect system to protect against fraud but it's something. If you buy it directly from them, you can use the serial numbers to get them authenticated when it comes time to sell. This has a limited appeal, but could potentially add value to the bar in a private sale. Unfortunately this isn't fool proof and if you're particularly careful about purchasing gold as most people are it probably doesn't make a difference. I would expect that it's worthwhile on some of the fractional bars since their small value makes having them tested uneconomical. There are also certain serial numbers which are commonly reported as fakes, so if you're able to see the number in photos it can be a quick way of dismissing a fake before you waste time contacting the seller. With larger bars, the ratio of reward to risk is much higher so counterfeiters are more likely to spend time going to extra lengths to make their fakes seem authentic, but with smaller sizes that becomes impractical. The main reason I like them is that you can handle the bars and look at them without worrying about damaging them. I don't expect them to be worth more than spot price to a dealer, but I like knowing they'll still look brand new a long time from now. I don't know about other bars, but I'm quite sure you can have the Perth mint bars tested accurately without removing them from the casing.
Great video. Have a look at Sigmascopes Type B which would be the ultimate test to know whether bars in plastic are authentic. They go for abouk 8k USD and will tell you the conductivity of the metal-which ultimately determines whether it is gold, copper or tungsten. Also, the XRF tool used is great, yet test should run until data on the right side, the "differential" goes down and becomes stable. In the case presented in the video test was done for 1.5 seconds with a 2+ differential-there is a lot of room for change in data there. Reply if you want a free test. All the best.
No gold bars for me, at least yet. For that matter I only have a handful of silver bars and the majority of those are ten ouncers. Thanks for the video SD, keep stacking!
If You have a Local Bullion Dealer I would suggest You buy Your Gold Bars and Coins there... I Don't buy Pretty Coins because they have Higher Premiums and You will NOT get any more for them when You go to sell them...
How much does this bar weigh without the card? That's the true test. It's possible to make a copper bar with the same dimensions as a full gold bar... BUT, the bar will weigh less than an ounce. You simply don't know how much the bar weighs: you're just guessing. I don't think this bar is legit. The XRF tester can only penetrate a few atoms down into the gold layer. I think it's a gold-plated tungsten bar, due to the thinness. Cut it out of the worthless card and you'll find out for sure.
So you wanna hold on to it , and not break the assay card ( even thou you yourself said that ANYTIME u wanna sell it ANY dealer will take it out of the assay ) Plus , u wanna pass this LIKELY SHAM gold bar to your kids ???? I think you just dont wanna admit to yourself you were scammed. Its ok to be scammed even dealers get scammed sometimes. Face it and make a video of it
Only buy gold from reputable dealers dont buy gold on line especially chinese they are the most fraudulant. There was a guy here in town who bought a one once gold chinese bar for 600 dollars under spot, he paid 1200 dollars for it and it turned out to be gold plated tungsten. He lost 1200 bucks, how heart breaking.
My dad came home (australia) from vietnam and he showed me this gold bar and i just stared at him. I asked if its legit because the packaging is mediocre. He said he bought it from a jeweller but im not buying it.
Does anyone ever do a density test? Assuming its 24k, then its density should be 19.3grams per cubic centimeter. Maybe get the volume by displaced liquid in a hi precision graduated cyclinder. Get the weight. Ratio it. And it should be close to 19.3. The only way to fake to reach this 19.3 ratio is to elements heavier than Gold. Theres tungsten, platinum, uranium, lol. Aside from the tungsten, only an idiot would use heavier than gold elements to fake gold bars. Because they are more expensive than gold.
WOW, that is scary Sir, I'm happy for you that it worked out well. Is there a poor's man's way to check Gold? IDK, just asking, I purchase fractional Gold coins, the meters you tested your Gold Bar with are not cheap, but I do purchase from reputable dealers online, hopefully they are not ripping me off and I should still check some how. Really Great Info Video, really appreciated. Thank You Sir.
Coins have widely published sizes and weights. Much easier to verify a coin without any expensive machines. Simple home tests can verify a coin with 99.999% assurance.
How much is the machine at 6:30? My local pawn shop put each silver round I purchased on the same machine before they gave it to me which I thought was pretty cool.
they used to be much more reasonable now they are $800-$1000 from what i’ve seen. 🔥🐉 if you want to buy one use the link I have in the video description for a discount
All through the video and even after or while or to do all these tests, you haven't opened the coin or bar from their packages. What's so expensive or whatever about that? You won't even open or touch and keep them like that for life? What's the use then?
I see gold bars (Perth Mint, etc) all the time in local sales posts. Almost every time I reply with "I'm interested and would like to know if I can test with a precious metals verifier", which mostly stops the suspicious sellers immediately. From super chatty to radio silence. Definitely better to avoid when there is any doubt.
smart to test the stuff before you buy no doubt! 🔥🐉
@@SilverDragons47 Would you say online bullion dealers ex. BGASC, Bullion Max, SilverGoldBull are pretty much legit??🤔
@@Kayl3ss APMEX, JM…yes, legit.
@@JoeGiz64 Thanks bro. I don't buy from those guys though but I've heard my guys are pretty much just as legit
I bought a bunch of them on ebay, they all got good rating, if they sell fake bar then somebody would of gave them a negative, most of my gold are in the 100k feedback rating, that is when u know that they are real.
I began buying this year At first I was told to buy bars because of lower premium but then I found that it would be hard to sell. I am selling my bars ack to the dealer but it is very slow on their end.
It's not an assay card because it doesn't have an assayer's signature on it.
Would your machine normally say thin for a bar of that thickness? Because plating is thin...
I thought of that danger and got mine from perthmint. I hope they are real.
Thanks for the video
Look, just buy from the reputable dealers and stack away. IF YOU BUY ON EBAY YOU GET WHAT YOU GET!! Good luck with that.
Thanks for the info.
Yep 100% let the kids deal with the headache of selling it and worrying if it's real or fake when the time comes LOL I love essay cards as long as they're real first gold bar was a pamp fake
lol the kids can do whatever they want with it but they will be getting massive stacks in addition 🔥🐉
*assay, kid
@@silkroad1201 lol talk text you didn't even notice that
Congrats on your tungsten bar purchase.
I was having a heart attack for you lol. Man you are on it! Glad this worked out well for you
lol it was such a roller coaster! 🔥🐉
To test for a copper core, hold bar on an angle, and let your magnet roll down it. If the magnet goes slow, it's because of copper causing induction.
what? gold is a similar good conductor as copper, will have the same effect
@@gene9230it will slow down with a gold core but it will not slow down with a thungsten core, as far as I understand
@@ttkddry he is talking about a copper core vs a gold core
It's because of how much of a pain in the butt gold bars in the assay are to test that I've avoided them. I'd rather pay more for something that's easier to test and more recognizable. Thanks!
yeah coins are my go to for sure! 🔥🐉
Precisely!
I don't understand how taking a gold bar out of the assay card will make the value of the gold go down. Or am I mistaken?
Better ask a bank or places where you can sale your gold.. not this guy
I live in Perth. going to the mint is awesome.
Does the value really go down though? JMBullion pays the same for generic 1 oz gold in any condition. Which is basically spot.
I always cut mine out of the cards.
What you have is a thick coated Tungsten bar . I bought one of these did same tests same results. Tried to bend it would not bend at all. Drilled on center and sure enough was Tungsten. Specific gravity of Tungsten and Gold within .01% very difficult to distinguish magnetically and or dimensionally. Have to bend bar. If it bends easily it’s gold. If it’s solid it’s Tungsten. I’m willing to bet it’s Tungsten.
you tested it on a sigma pro? I would love some photos and more information if you are willing to share please hit me up: silverdragons47@gmail.com
A ping sound test should help in determining if it's gold or plated tungsten. The real bar will have a nice gold gingle vs a fake tungsten it will have a thud or no sound at all.
Yes tested on Sigma Pro. Even had bar xRF tested. Got exact same results as you did. Bought off EBay. Seller allowed my LCS to do a bend test. You must do bend test 2 directions. Long end bend and diagonal bend. Only way to be sure is drill bar on center. We broke a drill bit trying to drill through after trying bend test. I was able to return for full refund.
@@abraham3981 thanks Abraham. We did not try ping test. That’s a good idea.
@@leonidas953 There are repositories out there that deal with thicker bars and they use sound to test for plating. Whether it is a ultrasonic thickness gauge or an ultrasound scanner it is the only sure proof way to determine if there are inserts inside other than drilling. With a thinner bar you can still use the concept of sound without any gauge or scanner.
I'm new to collecting gold and silver. I've been sticking to APMEX. It's not the cheapest. But I buy from the website, I know it 100% legit.
It's very easy for forgers to forge the cardboard the metals in ,,if they can forge the metal they can forge the card ,,only buy from reputable dealers 🤔
Last year I traded all my RMC bars for maples straight trade to a local coin shop. After seeing so many fake 1oz. Bars online I’ve moved away from them and only have gold coins.
This is an excellent video. Thorough, concise, and well explained. Great job and thank you for the valuable information.👏✌️🦅
thank you very much! 🔥🐉
The assay cards just create another expense that never existed before.
I like the idea of dissolving gold in aqua regia and precipitating it into a brown powder to keep in a jar. Less likely anybody would be interested in stealing it if they don't even know it is there.
I can always melt it when selling it if they prefer. Little plastic plant decoration..
I sold three ounces of gold during the height of the pandemic. I had a Canadian Gold Maple, An English coin and a Canadian .9999 bar in an assay card. They gave me spot on the two coins and barely looked at them. The bar they broke out of the case and did a number of tests on it and I got Spot - $100 on the bar. Just something to think about if your looking to buy gold.
When buying gold I've noticed the premiums are also higher on the coins then they are on the bars.
@@atrax7023 premiums are almost always greater on coins than bars. At least sovereigns.
That's why I buy bars and only from reputable dealers. Save a bit on premium. Gold is gold.
Do we need to be concerned, even if we buy from authentic brokers like SD bullion, APMEX etc?
NO, THEY TEST BULLION.
Yes they got into the legit market
They don’t want you to open it because it’s fake.if it’s real gold by taking it out the packaging it won’t devalue it it’s all ways the price of the value of gold at that time.
Great video, thank you for the information. If I were in your position, though, I think I'd go ahead and sell it myself rather than passing it onto my kids. Since you know all of the things to prove it is gold now, you have a better chance of getting a fair return on it. If you pass it down, what if they need/or want to sell it, but you're not able to share that info with them for whatever reason? They may end up getting undercut for it. Better that you sell it to ensure you're getting the most out of it. It's a beautiful bar, but I personally wouldn't trust my kids with it. But anyway that's just my take on it. Very informative, thanks again.
At my shop I do buy assayed bars but I bust them out of the package and cut them in half they have to agree to this before I do. I only pay right at spot for them anyway. You won't believe how many I have found to have another piece of metal in the middle.
Sad so many ppl out there scamming hoes
An XRF can absolutely penetrate into a material. I work in the mining industry. we use XRF extensively. We expect up to 10mm of penetration into a rock sample.
The assay cards are a con, the cards do nothing but raise the price when purchasing and lower the value when selling.
A real good tip on buying gold is if its like less than spot you probably shouldn't buy it
true that less then spot is usually fake! 🔥🐉
I like assy bars from Perth. They all come with surveyors numbers on them. I only have a few coins, but I'm coming around to them (no pun intended).
How about that several tons of copper infused gold plated gold that got discovered a few years ago from China? It was held as collateral for years and only discovered after the collateral was called and tested.
Not surprised coming from china
This video definitely answered several questions I've had regarding why 1 ounce gold bars have very, very low premiums. I was so tempted to buy a few welk-known bars, but now I know why I wouldn't. Thank-you for the thorough explanation. I'll stay with Eagles, Buffaloes and Maple Leafs.
Intuition hone it.
Yes, continue paying more for gold, especially in these times of outrageous premiums.
Same here. Imagine trying to sell that, or those silver rounds. No one will want them.
Anything and everything can be faked, even coins. You are better off getting a metal analyzer/verifier like he has if you are serious about accumulating precious metals. Yes, it will cost you $1,200 and up but if it saves you from one mistake then you are ahead.
yeah eagles maples and buffalos are the best IMO 🔥🐉
I did a recent video on a 2014 Libertad (silver) and had the same issue with the standard Sigma. It measured on the scale but was out of the brackets by a few ticks. Very curious. I did 5 other tests on it that all passed and I came to the conclusion that it was real. Maybe the mixture was off a bit or they only had .996 or .997. Not really sure why the standard Sigma didn't work...although I know they are not perfect. They are verifiers, not guaranteers 😀Great video SD.
yes indeed verifiers not a guaranteed thing 👍🏽🔥🐉
Now a lot of fakes are even being sold in Dubai...gold festival also ...
I stay clear away from chinese gold bars and coins.
I stay away from Gold for the reasons you discussed to much fake and the equipment to test is expensive. And the ROI ( return on Investment).is not worth the risk over silver IMO.
No gold bars for me, at least yet. For that matter I only have a handful of silver bars and the majority of those are ten ouncers. Thanks for the video SD, keep stacking!
Have you ever gotten fakes from reputable bullion dealers. Like SD or APMEX
I have bought gold bars and coins from SD Bullion, BOLD PM, JM Bullion, and Monument Metals, all during 2022. The only bar is a 1 oz gold Perth Mint from SD Bullion and it is in the original assay. The others are all 2022 coins in capsules or sleeves: British Sovereign, 1/4 Canada Gold Maple, 1/4 gold Kangaroo, 1/4 gold Britannia, and 1/4 gold Perth Lunar 2023 Rabbit. (I wanted 2022 coins with Queen Eliz II) Do I have any reason to be suspect of these products from these dealers? I don't have the fancy testing equipment. Would these dealers ever acquire fake gold bars/coins and resell them without testing their authenticity? Could I end up with a fake that slipped in to their inventory by mistake (or not?)? How concerned should I be?
From the dealers you mentioned, the chances are nearly impossible that you'll get a fake.
I take all my bars out the cards I’ve sold loads of gold and it hasn’t mattered that it isn’t in the assay card. All dealers will test the bars either way they definitely don’t rely on those assay cards to prove authenticity. Admittedly if you’ve got a rare bar or a collectible bar it’s best to leave in the assay
I also always get them out of the blisters and never have a problem with reputable dealers. Were previously always purchased at the current daily rate on the website. When I was once with a small gold buyer who buys something like dental gold or jewelry from private individuals, he actually tried to persuade me that they can only buy it as scrap gold because I opened the essay card. As I then told him that he could forget about that and that I would look for someone else, he wanted to negotiate again 🤣
@@lostepic5641 ohh he had a sudden change of heart? lol
That's one of the best things about coins. They have a known size and weight which can't be replicated by counterfeits.
Same idea you were showing here with the bars.
Take a look at the somewhat-recent Cook Islands gold coin scandal. Don't fall for that urban legend about coins being immune to forgery.
They can now silver dragons covered it
Great video very informative. I had an issue with silver also even on the sigma (basic one) an older trade unit. Only item I have cut in half and was real. Lol
As soon you said that gold value decreases when you take it out of its package, I just stop watching the video because one of the first things you said was 🐂💩
I dislike Gold for this very reason. Too much money in one investment that may go bad. If this was a silver bar/coin and you got it from a dealer who was scamming/lazy/incompetent. You are only out 30 some dollars (1oz). If you do this with gold you are out thousands of dollars. My local coin shop doesn't always catch everything (morgan dollars) so there is some risk no matter what.
yeah very true! 🔥🐉
If it's 1 deal ,you're right. But I'm assuming you're a stacker ,so let's say you buy a couple hundred oz of fake silver over a 2-3 year period then you're kinda in the same boat. So gold vs silver doesn't matter as much as its more of a you should be testing everything no matter what or who sells it to you
Also, after you get over 500 ounces of silver it gets too heavy to carry. My goal is to be able to carry my entire stash in an airline carry-on case. That means most of the value has to be gold.
My local coin shop said they don't ike seeing pamp or Perth. They said because they are so popular they are faked alot. So he pays under spot for them if at all. On the other hand he said he liked my Geiger bar and would pay spot for that any day
You better sell that bar. Otherwise you will need to start the Golden Dragons channel.
That had me scared and it’s not even mine. Glad it was legit. New subscriber thanks for the information brother.
0:23 It won't go down in value. Gold is gold and that's why there's a global spot price. By taking it out of the assay, you just lessen the likelihood of being able to charge a premium on top of the spot price.
Well if you cant charge a premium then it's worth less
@@eazye519 Yes, it will be worth the global spot price as a minimum, which is what I said in my comment. But it can't be worth less than spot price (I.e the value of the gold).
Gold has a premium regardless of the package. Take the gold out and test before you buy. You will only sell gold for a premium to individuals. No refinery or coin shop is going to buy your gold with a premium. I deal with two. At the least I get 98% for bullion from refineries or as of late, I get spot price. Silver rounds I get spot price plus $5 premiums for generic rounds and bars.
@@eazye519 Not when you bought gold when it was low. No one is buying gold for $1700 with a premium of $80. Then trying to sell it for $1700. I bought 10 bars in July 2019. $1400. I paid $33 USD to $60 over spot. I sold six this year. Four for $1800, One for $1820 and One last month for $1671. I did not get a premium when I sold. But I made money.
@@P8REN Gold is only worth what you sell it for. Yes there is a spot price. But if you sell it below spot price, then it is worth less than spot when you sell it. However, if you bought the gold for less than the current spot price at which you are selling, plus the premium and are making a profit, then who cares?
I just stick to gold sovereign coins - Maples, Buffalos, ASEs, Krugerrands, Philharmonics, Britannias.
It's funny how the assay card around the bar, is actually an impediment to independent assay, of the bar. Really, in a world of counterfeiters, a card today is a meaningless artifact of a day when you could trust things based on someone's word. So instead of the anachronistic assay card, perhaps they should provide nothing more than a plastic capsule for their gold bars. That way, as the gold goes through it's never ending life, as an investment metal, you can get at the gold to test it (specific gravity being the definitive proof).
Personally , I am SURE this is a fake bar. The sigma machine is safe to test. Even in assay card, WHICH HE SHLD HAVE REMOVED
It seems he is tryinggg to believe that he wasnt scammed. If you are worried. Just REMOVE THE ASSAY , then you can really do accurate tests.
All I had to see was that Chinese writing and made in USA. It's fake.
if it were me. I wouldn't buy assay, but proven bars from a lcs right in front of me after testing.
makes me wonder why these companies don't put security features right on to the bar itself though.
I know some do, but it is not often.
What's some good proven bars you'd recommend? I'm a big Fan of APMEX
well, it's 2024 and is the year of the Dragon..again
Great content. I buy Aussie gold coins & bars for the most part, because I intend to settle down in the Philippines in the next 5 or so years, and there are plenty of Aussie tourists and the continent is fairly close by.
You taking it with you? I don't think countries let you come in with any more than $10k in precious metal. I use kinesis and bitcoin for this reason. I can cash out into physical gold at any global kinesis vault globally.
@@lennybrewster4673 I'm considering PAXG (Pax Gold), another gold-backed token by Paxos. That seems to be where the physical gold coming off the Comex & LBMA winds up. And I'll bring in several ounces each time I travel to visit family there so I'm set when the time comes. Be well!
Thank you for your video, as always. I kinda envy you that advanced Sigma verifier. I wanted it too but when I finally gathered all the money necessary, it got sold out :-). Actually, do you know about any website that let's you verify your gold bars by their serial number (i.e. you enter the serial and get information about the bar)?
I do not know about any website with serial number look up but maybe perth mint bars you can contact the mint directly 🤷🏽♂️🔥🐉
PAMP has a camera based system. It is called Veriscan.
Great video - I have some gold bars by PAMP.
I only buy from sdbullion or my trusted lcs. That way theres no chance of getting a fake.
I have tried to bend a 1oz bar from Argo and Valcambi. To my surprise. It’s not easy to bend it by using fingers. I even put it in between the door frame and door and it took quite a bit of force to bend it. I got it from SD Bullion, so I don’t think they sells fake gold plated tungsten bars. Anyone has any different experience with trying to bend it?
Another reason why I only stack gold coins….. way less of a headache and worth the premium
Great video…I am always learning something new on your channel,great information. I do have a quick question? Should I invest into a
Sigma metalytics pro machine as well? I actually already invested in the standard sigma metalytics verifier you showed in the beginning, where you just set the coin on top and run. I know the pro runs approximately almost $900 more. Is the standard one not that accurate? Again great videos,any information would be appreciated,God bless.
I have never heard X-RAY florescence only does surface . Plating would be so thin I would think any XRF would have no trouble
Yep, true XRF machines are xray machines and so can recognise entirely what they are made of. This is why they cost between $15000 -$30000 to buy. Many YT vids on this.
There's probably tungsten rods inside that bar, that's a common trick they do in Chinese black market. They hollow out the bar and put tungsten rods inside.
All these tests you’re doing should be done on the gold article outside it’s packaging. Even using an xrf. No point if it’s got it’s packaging. Accuracy is still uncertain.
Yeah, pass the problem onto your kids, lol.
I recently purchased a one-ounce bar from an online precious metal dealer that prides itself on being very low priced. They had a sale on a brand of bars and I purchased one. The bar turned out to have a prominent defect on it. When I contacted the dealer, they acted like this was normal. Long story somewhat short, there was no resolution to this and I will never purchase anything from them again. But buying the defective bar led me to go to a local coin dealer (to ask what could have caused the peculiar defect) and he gave me an education on bars. For one thing, he said that the Chinese have made some kind of spray that they put on the bars they produce so that anyone who tries to test them can't tell that they are fake. No more bars for me, only coins. Thank goodness I only have a few bars (but they are from a more reliable and trustworthy dealer than the one I bought this bar from).
No way. I buy eagles, buffaloes, and maple leafs only. Some loose from a reputable dealer and some graded by NGC or PCGS. Only!
The company was fined sued multiple times for threatening customers who posted negative reviews. The government has taken action against them
I only trust gold coins! Plus they have numismatic collector value on top of the intrinsic gold value! And you don't have to worry about counterfeits and you don't have to test it. You can weigh it and that's enough
Great informative vid, thanks !
I look very sharp to how the dealer reacts to my questions and listen very well how his answers sound instead of listening what he/she has to say primairily...
Only one chance to do it right.
If some seller looses patience or gets irritated, its a no go for sure !
I've been telling people for years to stay away from bars for this reason. Coins are so much easier to test due to being "raw" and having published specs. I even have a Sigma Verifier. Only exception is if you live in Asia where they have a strong bias to bars. And i always preach that you should not buy "what you like". But instead buy "what your future buyers will likely like".
Bars are fine if buy from a reputable company and especially if have receipts. I had never sold any bars before until last week. Sold a couple scottsdale bars at a coin shop and was surprised how easy and quick it was. They were happy to buy it and offered 99.6% of the spot price without haggling.
I prefer coins, especially britania. The 21 and on britania has good security.
its probably fake you didn't buy it from a real mint and it doesn't have a hallmark,, open the plastic trash and test it properly.
So nice and all, but...
1. Specific gravity is effectively the same thing as density, which is what can be fooled by using something with a similar weight like tungston, so... little reason to be sure it is gold then.
2. You can be sure it's real gold by buying it directly from the mint.
3. Usually bars are sold where I live without any sort of packaging to begin with.
Perth Mint bars are serialised, which is far from a perfect system to protect against fraud but it's something. If you buy it directly from them, you can use the serial numbers to get them authenticated when it comes time to sell.
This has a limited appeal, but could potentially add value to the bar in a private sale. Unfortunately this isn't fool proof and if you're particularly careful about purchasing gold as most people are it probably doesn't make a difference.
I would expect that it's worthwhile on some of the fractional bars since their small value makes having them tested uneconomical.
There are also certain serial numbers which are commonly reported as fakes, so if you're able to see the number in photos it can be a quick way of dismissing a fake before you waste time contacting the seller.
With larger bars, the ratio of reward to risk is much higher so counterfeiters are more likely to spend time going to extra lengths to make their fakes seem authentic, but with smaller sizes that becomes impractical.
The main reason I like them is that you can handle the bars and look at them without worrying about damaging them. I don't expect them to be worth more than spot price to a dealer, but I like knowing they'll still look brand new a long time from now.
I don't know about other bars, but I'm quite sure you can have the Perth mint bars tested accurately without removing them from the casing.
Great video. Have a look at Sigmascopes Type B which would be the ultimate test to know whether bars in plastic are authentic. They go for abouk 8k USD and will tell you the conductivity of the metal-which ultimately determines whether it is gold, copper or tungsten.
Also, the XRF tool used is great, yet test should run until data on the right side, the "differential" goes down and becomes stable. In the case presented in the video test was done for 1.5 seconds with a 2+ differential-there is a lot of room for change in data there. Reply if you want a free test.
All the best.
Send it to professional grading service.. that certifies it, and preserves it
Then you know the one you sent was real, still cant be sure about the one you get back... ;P
Why did you even buy that ?
No gold bars for me, at least yet. For that matter I only have a handful of silver bars and the majority of those are ten ouncers. Thanks for the video SD, keep stacking!
I love the 10 oz silver bar. I've got Royal Canadian Mint, First Majestic, and Germania Mint.
Thanks for the test info. I recently purchased two 1 oz gold bars for the possibility of election turmoil.
The only thing I have in an assay card is a 1 gram Palladium Bar from Valcambi Suisse.
Seeing many pamps but not sure if it’s worth the risk
Definitely not buy from a reputable bullion dealer or mint of your country.
If You have a Local Bullion Dealer I would suggest You buy Your Gold Bars and Coins there... I Don't buy Pretty Coins because they have Higher Premiums and You will NOT get any more for them when You go to sell them...
How much does this bar weigh without the card? That's the true test. It's possible to make a copper bar with the same dimensions as a full gold bar... BUT, the bar will weigh less than an ounce. You simply don't know how much the bar weighs: you're just guessing. I don't think this bar is legit. The XRF tester can only penetrate a few atoms down into the gold layer.
I think it's a gold-plated tungsten bar, due to the thinness. Cut it out of the worthless card and you'll find out for sure.
taking it out of the plastic card doesn't hurt the value. Gold is gold. You're thinking collector's value. Who cares about that.
So you wanna hold on to it , and not break the assay card ( even thou you yourself said that ANYTIME u wanna sell it ANY dealer will take it out of the assay )
Plus , u wanna pass this LIKELY SHAM gold bar to your kids ????
I think you just dont wanna admit to yourself you were scammed.
Its ok to be scammed even dealers get scammed sometimes. Face it and make a video of it
Only buy gold from reputable dealers dont buy gold on line especially chinese they are the most fraudulant. There was a guy here in town who bought a one once gold chinese bar for 600 dollars under spot, he paid 1200 dollars for it and it turned out to be gold plated tungsten. He lost 1200 bucks, how heart breaking.
I bought my Sigma Pro purely for this reason. Peace of mind is priceless..
My dad came home (australia) from vietnam and he showed me this gold bar and i just stared at him. I asked if its legit because the packaging is mediocre. He said he bought it from a jeweller but im not buying it.
Does anyone ever do a density test? Assuming its 24k, then its density should be 19.3grams per cubic centimeter. Maybe get the volume by displaced liquid in a hi precision graduated cyclinder. Get the weight. Ratio it. And it should be close to 19.3. The only way to fake to reach this 19.3 ratio is to elements heavier than Gold. Theres tungsten, platinum, uranium, lol. Aside from the tungsten, only an idiot would use heavier than gold elements to fake gold bars. Because they are more expensive than gold.
If that is a one off piece you are not sure of I would melt it down and pour a 1 ounce round from it that would be thick enough to test
I certainly can melt it down 🤓🔥🐉
@@SilverDragons47 I smell a future video :)
WOW, that is scary Sir, I'm happy for you that it worked out well. Is there a poor's man's way to check Gold? IDK, just asking, I purchase fractional Gold coins, the meters you tested your Gold Bar with are not cheap, but I do purchase from reputable dealers online, hopefully they are not ripping me off and I should still check some how. Really Great Info Video, really appreciated. Thank You Sir.
Coins you just ping test. The pocket ping tester is good and paired with an app it is pretty hard to fool and pretty cheap.
YOU SHOULD DEF RUN A MEASUREMENT MACHINE AT FULL BATTERY THOU. WHY IS THE BATTERY INDICATOR FLASHING? ...caplock oops/
Coins have widely published sizes and weights. Much easier to verify a coin without any expensive machines. Simple home tests can verify a coin with 99.999% assurance.
The GLD on the New York Stock Exchange is real and can be bought and sold by pressing a button.
How much is the machine at 6:30? My local pawn shop put each silver round I purchased on the same machine before they gave it to me which I thought was pretty cool.
they used to be much more reasonable now they are $800-$1000 from what i’ve seen. 🔥🐉 if you want to buy one use the link I have in the video description for a discount
Just get it out of the package, gold is gold it doesn’t hurt that much value.
Might as well melt it down
All through the video and even after or while or to do all these tests, you haven't opened the coin or bar from their packages. What's so expensive or whatever about that? You won't even open or touch and keep them like that for life? What's the use then?
you need a Vantage GX is much meter and will tell you what's in it all the way through and all other metals in it
Measure the electrical impedance of a coil with the bar or coin inside. Compare the readings to a identical you know is good.