It takes a certain amount of self-confidence and humility to leave that last 15 seconds of the video where she’s getting some feedback on her form - Good for you, Deb!
Holy smokes I am once again amazed that this information is becoming available on RUclips. Fat skis are not moguls SKis I’m glad you guys have taken the time to display that. Everybody assumed that they could buy a ski that was 120 295 to 110 I’m thinking it was going to work all mountain they’re nuts. If you want to ski moguls you need the old traditional slalom side cut. If you want to skate all mountain let’s talk these dimensions. Traditional GS with a modification underfoot. I’m sorry my head is exploding I’m hoping somebody understands what I’m talking about. Thomyt
I missed this one last year...damn Deb you are killing those turns in the bumps. You can do everything. I read more about the hips up position and that helped to bring my upper body up and and stable. You are so smooth!
I encourage everyone to pay close attention to the ending. This was an issue in my skiing in the moguls, I needed to figure out how to get forward whilst still keeping my chest and shoulder upright. I had a tendency to hinge at the waist and lean my upper body forward too much, where you really want the knees over toes like they said, with a more calm tall upper body so you have room to let your lower half do the work. Incredibly important in short radius crud / moguls. Deb obviously can make that minor adjustment, or it was a product of her poles, who knows...she’s a legend, and I’m not critiquing her or the video. Just saying that was an issue for me, and probably many others who think they are getting forward, but they’re doing it the wrong way.
Absolutely! Actually they should spend more time on this subject of where the shoulders need to be and how to achieve that. It took me years to figure out that ski turns are initiated from the lower back muscles. For me it is critical for those to be engaged, especially in the bumps, in order to have the shoulders in the right location. Learning about the back muscle and where my shoulders needed to be was key for me to be able to ski the bumps. And I had not one instructor talk about that. They all instruct from the feet up, not the shoulders down, and the shoulders get forgotten about. I started skiing is the ‘50s and I spent the next 40 years skiing hunched over. As a result, I could never ski the bump. And, no ski instructor I had pointed that out to me. Not too may years ago I stumbled across a perfect bump run and ran it with no issues. I spent weeks trying to figure out what I had done to pull that off. It was an easy run and, at some point in my soul searching it dawned on me that I was upright from my waist up and my shoulder were back. For me, I learned I had to exaggerate my stance in order to unlearn 40 years of muscle memory. My go-to “key” for this was to think about pushing a shopping cart with my belly button, thereby tightening up my lower back muscle, which put my shoulders back. As for equipment, they talk about proper boots, but I found in addition to that was a pair of skis that have enough flex to not push me into the back seat. And, they would very much not like to see me show up to that bump run in my old Line Sick Days that are 94 under foot. But, I would have a lot of fun these days skiing a run like that, with all of that snow. On the subject of skis, I believe each to their own. I ski the East and the Lines are my go to ski.
@@nickv3085 I wonder what they would recommend as a ski for me? In the past I wasn’t able to make a narrow ski work for me and I have found the wider to be more universally fun to use in all the of the conditions I might experience in a day of skiing. So, for me, I wonder what the hindrance is that I would overcome by a narrower ski?
@@Eddie07S There’s a difference between cruising and enjoying the outdoors as a hobbyist who skis a few times, or few trips a year, and someone looking to push themselves and their equipment. Sometimes these people will overlap, but more often than not the modern wider ski can feel more versatile as it probably covers up some bad technique and also prevents progression IMO. I am not a ski pro nor am I an instructor of any kind, so take what I say with a grain of salt. All i can say is what they said in the video is true, IMO...a wider ski is great for crud and powder, that’s about it. If you like to carve, ski bumps, ice etc...a performance ski will unlock your potential. I used to feel as though my cambered narrow performance skis HAD to be on edge all the time otherwise they would get away from me....it wasn’t until taking them into the bumps at a camp did I realize I just wasn’t very good at anything other than carving. Once I learned how to flatten them out and pivot them more easily, they were a much more versatile ski as I figured out how to make them agile when needed, and bulletproof when it counts. You need multiple pairs of skis ideally in this sport in order to get the most out of your experience. If you can only have one pair of skis, then you need to be honest with yourself about a few things. 1) what do you mostly ski? If you never ski in powder or go off piste, then why do you need a wide underfoot ski? 2) What do you want to get out of your time there? If you only are experience driven and are convinced that wider skis provide the experience you desire, then stick to them. If you care about getting better at all, and want to explore different conditions/skill sets, then you NEED at least a pair of narrow underfoot performance skis. They are objectively better for almost all applications, as these world class pros are saying in the video...you’ll hear the same from anyone who can actually ski well. Maybe start by explaining what you mean by “I wasn’t able to make a narrow ski work”. I am confident you can make any ski work if you are open minded, non-judge mental about yourself, and dedicated.
@@nickv3085 Take Katie Ertl skiing the bumps at the beginning and later on in this video (ruclips.net/video/qOFXJCUF46E/видео.html). Slow and elegant. If someone can ski bumps in this style in wide, soft skis, then why should the industry norm be to force that person into a narrow, stiff ski? Especially when that narrow, stiff ski is ill suited for at least a portion of what that person might be looking to ski in a day. IMO, learn proper technique, then, let use that expertise to pick the skis that are the most fun and enjoy the skiing.😁
I used to ski my Raichles with my top buckle loose when it was cold. I think someone, maybe Scott Harrington, always skied with the top buckle undone.. Then there were guys like Scott Kauf who had great success totally cranking down super stiff Langes.
im not a pro by any means but while giving people tips in the bumps, I clarify the word "forward" so many misunderstand FORWARD! almost everyone bends forward at the waist with there chest facing the floor! I love all your mogul content with Bobby the video with pulling heels up to the hamstrings was a game changer for me! im self taught skier and that tip really made me a much better skier in the ungroomed!
I was trying to ski bumps today in my race boots, and it was horrible - even on skis that work in bumps. No foot containment and getting spat out. So true about the boots! Krypton pros rock
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong One of these days I'll leave the Aspen bubble and come make some turns with you. It's the least I can do after you hiked Highland Bowl for that great conversation with Katie. 🤗
I'm about your age, from Boise, Idaho. I still remember sitting on my girlfriends couch watching you in 84. I raced in the junior programs at our local hill, with some traveling, but after 8 years, switched to freestyle skiing. I found, that with my background in technically perfect skiing, switching to bumps, aerials, and oh yes the dreaded ballet, it was much easier than some of my other friends. Skiing a bump run is a lot like a slalom course. Moguls in those days were shaped by skiers, not machined like today on the world cup. I think you ski bumps great! The next time I'm in Steamboat, would love if we could hook up for a run.
ID One Mogul Ride Series skis are very popular on the competition mogul circuit. A typical side cut would be 95-61-85.Lengths for adults would be in 160’s to 170’s. These are “flat skis” which have bindings screwed directly onto the ski. The mogul skiers want to to low and close to the snow. The skis that Deb uses are Blizzard Firebird Race series which have a metal World Cup race plate attached to the ski under foot. This makes the ski very stiff and raising the boot higher allows for tipping the ski at higher edge angles for carving race turns. The width under foot on her Firebird HRC is 126-76-107mm and ski length is probably 166cm or 174 cm.
Finally, a video talking about specific conditions skiing and equipment. Unless you’re a freak of nature like Glen Plake and can beautifully ski moguls on 220s, having the right equipment setup for the conditions of the day is important. I have six windsurfing boards and four skis (80, 84, 90,100mm) in my quiver of toys. I’m often asked why so many? I return the question with a question, “If you golf, why do you need 14 clubs”? Why not just use a 4 iron for everything? For windsurfing, why would I want a 100ltr (too floaty) windsurfing slalom board to use in the waves? That is almost exactly like trying to ski icy moguls wearing 130cm powder skis. It’s a survival exercise at best and is certainly not fun. Great video and new subscriber.
I bought my 2nd pair of boots rated 130 for stiffness (and love how I ski on groomers), but I definitely see that I made moguls MUCH harder for myself. After 2 or 3 bumps, I’m already in the backseat. I’ll have to give my older, softer boots another try. Thank you!
I recently went from a Lange WC130 (Race Boot) to an RX130. I felt stiff and unable to flex. So after a long day, (And an appropriate Apre), I tried them on back to back. Woah! The Rx was Way stiffer. I took the two little screws and now I'm back to a good flex.
1 - Did Scott discontinue that pole??? It’s all I use 50” LOL 2 - ski width: spot on with the wider skis not working, period, no discussion unless you’re Marcus Gaston 3 - great video with truth and valid, useful, info. Thank you. ❤️👍🏼
i think i'm in the too forward camp. I like the way you ski the bumps not the classic "hotdog style" but more of an athletic approach. and i agree on width, i was on my 90mm on my last trip, because it was after a storm, tracked out and crud from avalanche control all over my fav slopes and while they do well in those conditions it is not the same skiing and i fall back to old (bad) habits :)
Interesting video, so many people recommend just getting the stiffest non race boots you can afford. I am not a good mogul skier but I think in any 3d terrain softer flex helps. At least I don’t get tired nearly as much. I am curious on your thoughts about it, most of my skiing is trees with my kids and boots I use are FT Descender 8(so probably 100 flex?) I am180lb. When arching big turns they feel too soft I end up folding them up a bit but in trees, moguls etc they feel perfect Also it is so easy to experiment with cuff forward lean, just one screw to move it.
Hi Deb,Thxs for the video, My question, I ski Head Super Shape I magnum 72 cm waist. I always thought they were too stiff for moguls until I watched this video.Could you speak to this perception?
Note that all competitive mogul skiers do Not use overly wide or overly shaped skis. These skis slide easier rather than carve, which is what you want through the bumps.
I would really like to see more on the discussion at the end regarding pole length for mogul skiing. I also cut my poles down, and they, at times, “feel” too short. Being from the older mogul skier crowd, who skied with longer poles, the shorter ones now take a bit of adjusting to. I am always wondering what the ideal length is for a given skier height and particular mogul terrain.
I always ask for shorter poles (and the rental guys always role their head that I shouldn't). With regular poles I feel like my pole plant, as I ski by, has my fist at my head level or higher. Shorter poles make me reach for the bump I'm skiing to and to make a more aggressive 'knees into the mountain / shoulders out over my boots' pole plant. That's just my particular style, though.
what's a good ski length for mogul for averge size person? same size as on piste carving ski? about eye level height? or should it be even shorter? What size are you using compare to your height? thanks!
I will disagree somewhat with the gear prescription in this video. I think that a ski 85-95mm with a bit of tip and tail rocker is perfect for building confidence and technique in bumps. I'm thinking of things like the Elan Ripstick, K2 Mindbender, Nordica Enforcer, Blizzard Rustler series. This class of skis still gives you a lot of the precision and quickness of a narrower, more piste-oriented ski, but the modern shape and rocker profile make it easier to release the tails and steer the ski through the finish of a turn, and modern rockered and tapered shapes really help a ski cut through inconsistent or choppy snow on turn initiation. For a high-intermediate to advanced skier, the correct ski will depend largely on location, conditions, and probably most importantly, skier background. A slalom racer from Minnesota probably isn't going to get along well with a fat, heavily rockered and tapered ski, even in soft conditions. Similarly, someone who grew up pivoting and sliding through icy bumps on park skis in Vermont isn't likely to get along well with a 75 underfoot, full cambered frontside carving ski. When I taught in Big Sky, I skied every day for 4 years on a 100mm underfoot all-mountain ski, and passed my PSIA L2 Exam on that ski. My examiner was also on the same ski.
Hi Deb, what radius to you think works well for the moguls? I love short turns but also fast long to stay up with snowboarding children. I spend 70% of my time on piste. My current skis are 158cn and 16m radius.
So informative. I didn’t know you can’t mogul or trail ski with 90+ under the foot. So what do we do if the ski choice was blizzards and they are I think 86, will they not be able to handle the moguls you just hit. We are skiing the ice in the NE.
The main point here is the narrower the better in moguls. 86 is considered wide. Bobby is not saying that you can not ski moguls with an 86 under foot but narrower is better, between 72 and 78ish.
I ski bumps and glades 90 underfoot just fine but when you ski bumps with 65-75 underfoot edge to edge is very noticeable I gave my K2 cabrawlers away and I miss them so much I the spring!
The current wide ski fad has really gone overboard. I see this happen in every sport I participate in (skiing, whitewater kayaking; mountain biking). Too many folks are sliding around ineffectively frontside with 100+mm waisted skis. They’d be so much happier in 75-85 mm skis but they’ll never try them. As Bobby said wider skis certainly have their place but the vast majority of folks rarely ski those conditions. I’m old school - my widest ski is 102mm for powder and chop - to me it feels like a 122mm ski. If I had only one pair of skis they’d be around 76mm at the waist and shaped in between slalom and GS turn radius. Deb’s Firebird HRC’s are the perfect frontside ski in my book 😎. (Deb I think your skis are 76mm).
while obviously not ideal for it I have no issue carving 116 underfoot skis on frontside runs, I've been riding 116s and 100s all season and haven't even touched my 76s, the 116s aren't great in real tight moguls or super crusty days but that's it.
Hi Deb Thxs for the discussion regarding ski width for moguls, My question is I ski HeadSuperShape imagnum 72 mm waist. Will you discuss not just ski width but flex also in the moguls. Should I be able to use the SS skis in the moguls?
Gosh, that depends. Mostly depends on the skill level of the skier and the size of the skier. Length can give stability but too long the skis become problematic
My skis are volkl supersport 5 stars, 68 mms under foot (I bought them in 2005). Do I need to buy wider skis to ride all mountain in the Rockies, or do I simply need to improve my technique?
Nothing wrong with a two-ski quiver ~ a set of narrower skis and a set of wider skis. I ski in Montana and am lucky enough to have a three-ski quiver, but I find my narrowest (78mm) to be optimal on a majority of my on-piste days, including moguls, trees, and fresh powder that isn’t crazy deep.
you would notice an incredible difference in the way a ski from 2005 preforms vs a 2020 ski, ski technology has come a long way in 15 years. I think 85-100mm is ideal for an all mountain ski in the rockies, keep the narrower ones for different conditions
Garth back again, thank you for your replies. I have of course had to rent skis when going to far away places. Sometimes I have been given broad skis that seem to flap about at speed and have no grip, and I haven’t liked the feeling. On the other hand I get bored just going super fast on rails down groomers. I am moving to a city in the rockies and think I will try out something around the 80 to 90 size first. Thx again.
I’m 63, muscle bound, 225lbs. not bending. Yoga kills me. I’m a snowboarder who wants to ski. Ankle flexion is very tough for me, my friends laugh when they realize I can’t flex. Squatting is limited. I tend to lean forward. This causes me to slide turn, finding my edges are rare. Should I give up any hope of skiing because of my body type or can you do a video on some secrets to finding an edge with physical restrictions.
For you some built in ramp angle with yiur ski boots may help get you forward as yiu have so little ankle flexion. Your boot set up is important to help yiu deal with your limitations. And no, yiu do not need to give up, not at all. Not if you enjoy pursuing skiing. Where do you ski?
I ski heavenly. Great suggestions, I think the inexpensive boots I bought from the rental shop is part of the problem, secondly on steep runs I tend to lean back. Therefore slide. I watched more of your videos for the second time and now realize some mistakes. Thanks
The shaped ski was designed for groomed snow. It allows a skier to achieve higher performance from the ski, with less effort. A skier's angulation makes this type of ski come alive on a groomer. Think of the lively and poppy performance of the short turn. Unlike a groomer, a mogul field, has a super high number of slope angles that the edge of a ski traverses; even in just one turn. Further, angulation isn't the way to achieve high performance in a freestyle technique. Freestyle performance in bumps comes from lower leg angle and having the skis remain underneath the skier. Moguls don't allow the opportunity for angulation like a groomer does. Further the tip/shovel of the ski, in moguls, plays a most critical role in ski control; for groomers, it's the whole arc of the ski. So to answer your question, introducing extreme shape to the tip makes it bite very aggressively (and unpredictably) in the mogul field, exacerbating the need for more precise balancing from the skier. The aggressive bite from the tip (and tail) will cause the ski to over arc and make the ski very difficult to keep underneath the skier and will feel uncontrollable.
@@puregsr Correct, from nose to top of head. I feel that you don't want to go too short because a longer ski gives more fore and aft stability. Keep in mind that you may not have to spend money on new skis. I should have mentioned, in my reply, that I feel that my info leans to the FIS level freestyler, skiing a FIS level course. For recreational people like you and I, we can ski any type of ski and have a ton of fun. Search RUclips for "Return of the Turn, Episode 11 - Mogul Skiing at Mary Jane" or "Japanese mogul skiing" and you'll see fat skis and a lot of slalom skis (a lot of shape); yet, people have no trouble in their mogul technique. I hope that this helps.
I do ok on 102's in the bumps. Fat skis wouldn’t be my first choice I guess but you learn to live with what you bring to the mountains. I'm not competing with anyone either.
Nonsense on the “can’t ski fat ski’s in moguls”! I ski 75-80% moguls! Give me bumps or give me death! My narrowest set of ski’s are Stockli Stormrider 95’s. They are probably my all time favorite mogul ski’s, and over the years (I’m 58, been skiing since 7), I’ve skied on just about everything! I also ski Rossi Soul7 HD’s in bumps all the time. Think they are 106 under foot, they are great in moguls as well. If you know how to ski bumps, width doesn’t make a whole lotta difference if you ask me. Length and stiffness matter more to me.
As you say "If you know how ro ski bumps". Folks go to fat skis before they know how to ski well enough. Learn the skills first. Glad you like your wide skis in the bumps. Narrower skis in the bumps will be quicker from turn to turn and cat like versatile. 😉
Lol. There’s a guy at my local resort who skis semi-wide (guessing around 100mm underfoot) twin tips for everything and looks insanely graceful doing it. I love watching him ski. His lines through black diamond mogul runs look like brush strokes from a master painter. It’s poetry. Still, inspired by Deb’s take on narrower skis, I bought a pair of Stöckli Laser AXs at 78mm underfoot this year and LOVE them. I skied them in fresh powder (4 inches) last weekend and it was so enjoyable and easy. I felt deep joy and gratitude all day ~ for life in general and for my amazing skis! :) All of that is not to say that I don’t also absolutely love my Line Sick Day 104s. I’ve had such a good time in even deeper powder on those and I actually ski them quite well in just about all conditions. However, I do find the Stöcklis easier to ski in most “everyday” conditions and a bit less fatiguing over a long day.
Thanks Deb for another informative vid! 98mm Sin7 seems to work beautifully in bumps for me - only ski in quiver and works well in crud too but I use wider outfitter provided skis for cat / heli. Going to try something narrower given the pro advice here.
@@dennisrogers4665 there is something to be said about making the best of what you have. Obviously my skiing style is more freestyle focussed and this season I’ve been working on riding switch a lot. Definitely not skiing zipper lines yet but i am tempted to rent some short skis on an icy day to see how they turn and handle in the bumps
I recall a tick-tock video (I don't recall who's) that got me thinking "quick turns" as in turn to the rhythm of it and practice on groomers before moguls. With the ski width issue, I understand. Fat's just can't get the edge going quick enough. I'm going to demo some narrower skis tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. I also ski on 100 flex boots so I hope they're not too stiff to get those knees over the toes. GREAT VID ! DEBSTRONG!!!
@@frankchiappone3062 Hey Frank... This is Chip Lunsford. I was working on hips forward..uphill hip drive today in Santa Fe. So sorry to miss you guys this year at Bumpa. Next year!!!! Have a great time.
People have skis (length) way above their abilities, learn on short skis and move up as your abilities improve. Most people I see have skis way too long. I use ski length as part of my speed control, big difference in a GS ski 185cm than one at 165cm...like 20 mph
Proper technique with skills that include proper edge control and turn shape are major factors in speed control. Deb does a great job teaching all of those in her instructional videos. While a shorter ski is easier to control and easier to learn on skiers still have to develop skills. I have skied and worked in ski shops since the 1970’s. Ski size includes several factors. A skiers weigh, height and skills are important but ski design is also very important. If a ski has more rocker you ski it longer. Skis like the blizzard Rustler series are designed to float in soft snow.The bigger the boat the better it floats. All mountain skis are designed for variable snow with less rocker and waist width in the mid 80 + mm. They should be head length or above. I ski the Blizzard Brahma 88 in 171 cm at 145 lbs 5’5”. Racing type front side carving skis like the Blizzard Firebird HRC with a World Cup race plate like Deb skis on can be skied shorter because you want a tight turn radius. The turn quick but be aware the require lots of skier input. They are not forgiving if you make a mistake.
Very helpful video for me. I consider myself a good skier ( 80kg 5'8") however I ski best when my boots are loosened (Tecnica cochise 90 flex) when tightened I struggle to get my knees over my toes to turn the Atomic SX10 160 skis as I would like. I get the feeling that a shorter or less stiff ski would fix this, but so would a different boot. Not sure what to do, any advice please?
Кино
I'm 66 and haven't skied in 10 years. I had Nancy Greene as a ski instructor in the 80's.
It takes a certain amount of self-confidence and humility to leave that last 15 seconds of the video where she’s getting some feedback on her form - Good for you, Deb!
Thank you😉😉
He was very diplomatic at the end. What a nice chap :-)
Skied with Alighieri in the 90s at Killington. He was always one of the best. Great to see that he is coaching.
Always exciting with new vids from Deb!!
Thanks love Bobby's style and tips!
Holy smokes I am once again amazed that this information is becoming available on RUclips. Fat skis are not moguls SKis I’m glad you guys have taken the time to display that. Everybody assumed that they could buy a ski that was 120 295 to 110 I’m thinking it was going to work all mountain they’re nuts. If you want to ski moguls you need the old traditional slalom side cut. If you want to skate all mountain let’s talk these dimensions. Traditional GS with a modification underfoot. I’m sorry my head is exploding I’m hoping somebody understands what I’m talking about. Thomyt
Spot on Thomyt. have fun out there
Sooo true about the boots. They will make or break you in the bumps.
I missed this one last year...damn Deb you are killing those turns in the bumps. You can do everything. I read more about the hips up position and that helped to bring my upper body up and and stable. You are so smooth!
Great stuff! Another simple and informative video about IPO. Thanks for your strategy sharing!
Amazing video! Thank you so much for posting !
I encourage everyone to pay close attention to the ending. This was an issue in my skiing in the moguls, I needed to figure out how to get forward whilst still keeping my chest and shoulder upright. I had a tendency to hinge at the waist and lean my upper body forward too much, where you really want the knees over toes like they said, with a more calm tall upper body so you have room to let your lower half do the work. Incredibly important in short radius crud / moguls.
Deb obviously can make that minor adjustment, or it was a product of her poles, who knows...she’s a legend, and I’m not critiquing her or the video. Just saying that was an issue for me, and probably many others who think they are getting forward, but they’re doing it the wrong way.
Absolutely! Actually they should spend more time on this subject of where the shoulders need to be and how to achieve that. It took me years to figure out that ski turns are initiated from the lower back muscles. For me it is critical for those to be engaged, especially in the bumps, in order to have the shoulders in the right location. Learning about the back muscle and where my shoulders needed to be was key for me to be able to ski the bumps. And I had not one instructor talk about that. They all instruct from the feet up, not the shoulders down, and the shoulders get forgotten about.
I started skiing is the ‘50s and I spent the next 40 years skiing hunched over. As a result, I could never ski the bump. And, no ski instructor I had pointed that out to me. Not too may years ago I stumbled across a perfect bump run and ran it with no issues. I spent weeks trying to figure out what I had done to pull that off. It was an easy run and, at some point in my soul searching it dawned on me that I was upright from my waist up and my shoulder were back. For me, I learned I had to exaggerate my stance in order to unlearn 40 years of muscle memory. My go-to “key” for this was to think about pushing a shopping cart with my belly button, thereby tightening up my lower back muscle, which put my shoulders back.
As for equipment, they talk about proper boots, but I found in addition to that was a pair of skis that have enough flex to not push me into the back seat. And, they would very much not like to see me show up to that bump run in my old Line Sick Days that are 94 under foot. But, I would have a lot of fun these days skiing a run like that, with all of that snow. On the subject of skis, I believe each to their own. I ski the East and the Lines are my go to ski.
@@Eddie07S skis definitely a personal choice, but their point was performance skiing is hindered in most conditions by too wide of a ski underfoot.
@@nickv3085 I wonder what they would recommend as a ski for me? In the past I wasn’t able to make a narrow ski work for me and I have found the wider to be more universally fun to use in all the of the conditions I might experience in a day of skiing. So, for me, I wonder what the hindrance is that I would overcome by a narrower ski?
@@Eddie07S There’s a difference between cruising and enjoying the outdoors as a hobbyist who skis a few times, or few trips a year, and someone looking to push themselves and their equipment. Sometimes these people will overlap, but more often than not the modern wider ski can feel more versatile as it probably covers up some bad technique and also prevents progression IMO.
I am not a ski pro nor am I an instructor of any kind, so take what I say with a grain of salt. All i can say is what they said in the video is true, IMO...a wider ski is great for crud and powder, that’s about it. If you like to carve, ski bumps, ice etc...a performance ski will unlock your potential. I used to feel as though my cambered narrow performance skis HAD to be on edge all the time otherwise they would get away from me....it wasn’t until taking them into the bumps at a camp did I realize I just wasn’t very good at anything other than carving. Once I learned how to flatten them out and pivot them more easily, they were a much more versatile ski as I figured out how to make them agile when needed, and bulletproof when it counts.
You need multiple pairs of skis ideally in this sport in order to get the most out of your experience.
If you can only have one pair of skis, then you need to be honest with yourself about a few things.
1) what do you mostly ski? If you never ski in powder or go off piste, then why do you need a wide underfoot ski?
2) What do you want to get out of your time there? If you only are experience driven and are convinced that wider skis provide the experience you desire, then stick to them. If you care about getting better at all, and want to explore different conditions/skill sets, then you NEED at least a pair of narrow underfoot performance skis. They are objectively better for almost all applications, as these world class pros are saying in the video...you’ll hear the same from anyone who can actually ski well.
Maybe start by explaining what you mean by “I wasn’t able to make a narrow ski work”. I am confident you can make any ski work if you are open minded, non-judge mental about yourself, and dedicated.
@@nickv3085 Take Katie Ertl skiing the bumps at the beginning and later on in this video (ruclips.net/video/qOFXJCUF46E/видео.html). Slow and elegant. If someone can ski bumps in this style in wide, soft skis, then why should the industry norm be to force that person into a narrow, stiff ski? Especially when that narrow, stiff ski is ill suited for at least a portion of what that person might be looking to ski in a day. IMO, learn proper technique, then, let use that expertise to pick the skis that are the most fun and enjoy the skiing.😁
It’s a hit! Glad your poles aren’t too short ;)
I applauded 😁👍🏼😁
HA, and thank you so much for supporting the channel!!!!
I used to ski my Raichles with my top buckle loose when it was cold. I think someone, maybe Scott Harrington, always skied with the top buckle undone.. Then there were guys like Scott Kauf who had great success totally cranking down super stiff Langes.
im not a pro by any means but while giving people tips in the bumps, I clarify the word "forward" so many misunderstand FORWARD! almost everyone bends forward at the waist with there chest facing the floor! I love all your mogul content with Bobby the video with pulling heels up to the hamstrings was a game changer for me! im self taught skier and that tip really made me a much better skier in the ungroomed!
I tend to lean on the front of my boots. That automatically bends my knees and puts my hips over my feet.
I was trying to ski bumps today in my race boots, and it was horrible - even on skis that work in bumps. No foot containment and getting spat out. So true about the boots! Krypton pros rock
Such a great conversation between two world class athletes and coaches!!
Thanks Erik!!
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong One of these days I'll leave the Aspen bubble and come make some turns with you. It's the least I can do after you hiked Highland Bowl for that great conversation with Katie. 🤗
@@erikdarosa659 I would like that Erik
I'm about your age, from Boise, Idaho. I still remember sitting on my girlfriends couch watching you in 84. I raced in the junior programs at our local hill, with some traveling, but after 8 years, switched to freestyle skiing. I found, that with my background in technically perfect skiing, switching to bumps, aerials, and oh yes the dreaded ballet, it was much easier than some of my other friends. Skiing a bump run is a lot like a slalom course. Moguls in those days were shaped by skiers, not machined like today on the world cup. I think you ski bumps great! The next time I'm in Steamboat, would love if we could hook up for a run.
Thanks for the comment. Love it!!!!!
I'll be happy to watch the next video...
ID One Mogul Ride Series skis are very popular on the competition mogul circuit. A typical side cut would be 95-61-85.Lengths for adults would be in 160’s to 170’s. These are “flat skis” which have bindings screwed directly onto the ski. The mogul skiers want to to low and close to the snow. The skis that Deb uses are Blizzard Firebird Race series which have a metal World Cup race plate attached to the ski under foot. This makes the ski very stiff and raising the boot higher allows for tipping the ski at higher edge angles for carving race turns. The width under foot on her Firebird HRC is 126-76-107mm and ski length is probably 166cm or 174 cm.
Good content. Thank you!!!
Finally, a video talking about specific conditions skiing and equipment.
Unless you’re a freak of nature like Glen Plake and can beautifully ski moguls on 220s, having the right equipment setup for the conditions of the day is important.
I have six windsurfing boards and four skis (80, 84, 90,100mm) in my quiver of toys. I’m often asked why so many? I return the question with a question, “If you golf, why do you need 14 clubs”? Why not just use a 4 iron for everything?
For windsurfing, why would I want a 100ltr (too floaty) windsurfing slalom board to use in the waves? That is almost exactly like trying to ski icy moguls wearing 130cm powder skis. It’s a survival exercise at best and is certainly not fun.
Great video and new subscriber.
Awesome. Glad you found my channel Dan. Welcome!!
I bought my 2nd pair of boots rated 130 for stiffness (and love how I ski on groomers), but I definitely see that I made moguls MUCH harder for myself. After 2 or 3 bumps, I’m already in the backseat. I’ll have to give my older, softer boots another try. Thank you!
I think giving your softer boots a try will be an interesting experiment. Let me know how it goes.
I recently went from a Lange WC130 (Race Boot) to an RX130. I felt stiff and unable to flex. So after a long day, (And an appropriate Apre), I tried them on back to back. Woah! The Rx was Way stiffer. I took the two little screws and now I'm back to a good flex.
Great video
He coached me at Steamboat many moons ago. Top coach with a mean backflip.
Super video! I applauded for $5.00 👏👏
Thank you Tim!!!! That supports the channel. Greatly appreciated. Take care.
Super video! I applauded for $2.00 👏
HUGE Thanks for supporting the channel Allen. Take care. Where do you ski?
1 - Did Scott discontinue that pole??? It’s all I use 50” LOL
2 - ski width: spot on with the wider skis not working, period, no discussion unless you’re Marcus Gaston
3 - great video with truth and valid, useful, info. Thank you. ❤️👍🏼
Thank you!!!!!
i think i'm in the too forward camp. I like the way you ski the bumps not the classic "hotdog style" but more of an athletic approach. and i agree on width, i was on my 90mm on my last trip, because it was after a storm, tracked out and crud from avalanche control all over my fav slopes and while they do well in those conditions it is not the same skiing and i fall back to old (bad) habits :)
Thanks!
Interesting video, so many people recommend just getting the stiffest non race boots you can afford. I am not a good mogul skier but I think in any 3d terrain softer flex helps. At least I don’t get tired nearly as much.
I am curious on your thoughts about it, most of my skiing is trees with my kids and boots I use are FT Descender 8(so probably 100 flex?) I am180lb. When arching big turns they feel too soft I end up folding them up a bit but in trees, moguls etc they feel perfect
Also it is so easy to experiment with cuff forward lean, just one screw to move it.
Hi Deb,Thxs for the video, My question, I ski Head Super Shape I magnum 72 cm waist. I always thought they were too stiff for moguls until I watched this video.Could you speak to this perception?
Note that all competitive mogul skiers do Not use overly wide or overly shaped skis. These skis slide easier rather than carve, which is what you want through the bumps.
I would really like to see more on the discussion at the end regarding pole length for mogul skiing. I also cut my poles down, and they, at times, “feel” too short. Being from the older mogul skier crowd, who skied with longer poles, the shorter ones now take a bit of adjusting to. I am always wondering what the ideal length is for a given skier height and particular mogul terrain.
Ill look into it. Good comment. Thanks
Im 6ft. 44cm is the sweetspot. Check out zipline poles
I always ask for shorter poles (and the rental guys always role their head that I shouldn't). With regular poles I feel like my pole plant, as I ski by, has my fist at my head level or higher. Shorter poles make me reach for the bump I'm skiing to and to make a more aggressive 'knees into the mountain / shoulders out over my boots' pole plant. That's just my particular style, though.
what's a good ski length for mogul for averge size person? same size as on piste carving ski? about eye level height? or should it be even shorter? What size are you using compare to your height? thanks!
U r the best
Thank you!!
I don't know anything about moguls but 4:37 whole impact of mogul was absorbed by spine and neck. Neck even snapped forward and back. Is that safe ?
Knee over toe. Love it
I will disagree somewhat with the gear prescription in this video. I think that a ski 85-95mm with a bit of tip and tail rocker is perfect for building confidence and technique in bumps. I'm thinking of things like the Elan Ripstick, K2 Mindbender, Nordica Enforcer, Blizzard Rustler series. This class of skis still gives you a lot of the precision and quickness of a narrower, more piste-oriented ski, but the modern shape and rocker profile make it easier to release the tails and steer the ski through the finish of a turn, and modern rockered and tapered shapes really help a ski cut through inconsistent or choppy snow on turn initiation.
For a high-intermediate to advanced skier, the correct ski will depend largely on location, conditions, and probably most importantly, skier background. A slalom racer from Minnesota probably isn't going to get along well with a fat, heavily rockered and tapered ski, even in soft conditions. Similarly, someone who grew up pivoting and sliding through icy bumps on park skis in Vermont isn't likely to get along well with a 75 underfoot, full cambered frontside carving ski.
When I taught in Big Sky, I skied every day for 4 years on a 100mm underfoot all-mountain ski, and passed my PSIA L2 Exam on that ski. My examiner was also on the same ski.
Thanks for taking the time to comment
Hi Deb, what radius to you think works well for the moguls? I love short turns but also fast long to stay up with snowboarding children. I spend 70% of my time on piste. My current skis are 158cn and 16m radius.
Checl out faction le mogul. Can carve and rip bumps. Great all mtn ski of its not snowing.
@@dougsheldon8970 Fantastic. Thanks very much!
So informative. I didn’t know you can’t mogul or trail ski with 90+ under the foot. So what do we do if the ski choice was blizzards and they are I think 86, will they not be able to handle the moguls you just hit. We are skiing the ice in the NE.
The main point here is the narrower the better in moguls. 86 is considered wide. Bobby is not saying that you can not ski moguls with an 86 under foot but narrower is better, between 72 and 78ish.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong thanks.
I ski bumps and glades 90 underfoot just fine but when you ski bumps with 65-75 underfoot edge to edge is very noticeable I gave my K2 cabrawlers away and I miss them so much I the spring!
@@deets29mtb53 thanks.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Except, that's literally what he said.
The current wide ski fad has really gone overboard. I see this happen in every sport I participate in (skiing, whitewater kayaking; mountain biking). Too many folks are sliding around ineffectively frontside with 100+mm waisted skis. They’d be so much happier in 75-85 mm skis but they’ll never try them. As Bobby said wider skis certainly have their place but the vast majority of folks rarely ski those conditions. I’m old school - my widest ski is 102mm for powder and chop - to me it feels like a 122mm ski. If I had only one pair of skis they’d be around 76mm at the waist and shaped in between slalom and GS turn radius. Deb’s Firebird HRC’s are the perfect frontside ski in my book 😎. (Deb I think your skis are 76mm).
while obviously not ideal for it I have no issue carving 116 underfoot skis on frontside runs, I've been riding 116s and 100s all season and haven't even touched my 76s, the 116s aren't great in real tight moguls or super crusty days but that's it.
Ya, you are correct with my 76 under foot. Thanks for the comment. Great stuff!!!
Hi Deb
Thxs for the discussion regarding ski width for moguls, My question is I ski HeadSuperShape imagnum 72 mm waist. Will you discuss not just ski width but flex also in the moguls. Should I be able to use the SS skis in the moguls?
Sure but it’s stiff
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong how would I adjust to the mogul terrain
@@PlaneImpactGolf I really couldn’t say without knowing your skiing. Sorry!
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong understand thanks ⛷👌
would shorter skis perform better on moguls than longer skis as they are more mobile?
Gosh, that depends. Mostly depends on the skill level of the skier and the size of the skier. Length can give stability but too long the skis become problematic
My skis are volkl supersport 5 stars, 68 mms under foot (I bought them in 2005). Do I need to buy wider skis to ride all mountain in the Rockies, or do I simply need to improve my technique?
Nothing wrong with a two-ski quiver ~ a set of narrower skis and a set of wider skis. I ski in Montana and am lucky enough to have a three-ski quiver, but I find my narrowest (78mm) to be optimal on a majority of my on-piste days, including moguls, trees, and fresh powder that isn’t crazy deep.
you would notice an incredible difference in the way a ski from 2005 preforms vs a 2020 ski, ski technology has come a long way in 15 years. I think 85-100mm is ideal for an all mountain ski in the rockies, keep the narrower ones for different conditions
I love my 68 under foot but in powder and crud it can be tricky placing a premium on your technique
Garth back again, thank you for your replies. I have of course had to rent skis when going to far away places. Sometimes I have been given broad skis that seem to flap about at speed and have no grip, and I haven’t liked the feeling. On the other hand I get bored just going super fast on rails down groomers. I am moving to a city in the rockies and think I will try out something around the 80 to 90 size first. Thx again.
I’m 63, muscle bound, 225lbs. not bending. Yoga kills me. I’m a snowboarder who wants to ski. Ankle flexion is very tough for me, my friends laugh when they realize I can’t flex. Squatting is limited. I tend to lean forward. This causes me to slide turn, finding my edges are rare. Should I give up any hope of skiing because of my body type or can you do a video on some secrets to finding an edge with physical restrictions.
go to a bootfitter and talk to them, having properly fitted boots helps with limited ankle mobility
For you some built in ramp angle with yiur ski boots may help get you forward as yiu have so little ankle flexion. Your boot set up is important to help yiu deal with your limitations. And no, yiu do not need to give up, not at all. Not if you enjoy pursuing skiing. Where do you ski?
I ski heavenly. Great suggestions, I think the inexpensive boots I bought from the rental shop is part of the problem, secondly on steep runs I tend to lean back. Therefore slide. I watched more of your videos for the second time and now realize some mistakes. Thanks
Would somebody explain why GS skis with larger turning radius (straighter side cuts) are better for moguls?
The shaped ski was designed for groomed snow. It allows a skier to achieve higher performance from the ski, with less effort. A skier's angulation makes this type of ski come alive on a groomer. Think of the lively and poppy performance of the short turn. Unlike a groomer, a mogul field, has a super high number of slope angles that the edge of a ski traverses; even in just one turn. Further, angulation isn't the way to achieve high performance in a freestyle technique. Freestyle performance in bumps comes from lower leg angle and having the skis remain underneath the skier. Moguls don't allow the opportunity for angulation like a groomer does. Further the tip/shovel of the ski, in moguls, plays a most critical role in ski control; for groomers, it's the whole arc of the ski. So to answer your question, introducing extreme shape to the tip makes it bite very aggressively (and unpredictably) in the mogul field, exacerbating the need for more precise balancing from the skier. The aggressive bite from the tip (and tail) will cause the ski to over arc and make the ski very difficult to keep underneath the skier and will feel uncontrollable.
What length would you recommend to work on moguls? Longer or shorter? Top of head, forehead, nose?
@@puregsr Correct, from nose to top of head. I feel that you don't want to go too short because a longer ski gives more fore and aft stability. Keep in mind that you may not have to spend money on new skis. I should have mentioned, in my reply, that I feel that my info leans to the FIS level freestyler, skiing a FIS level course. For recreational people like you and I, we can ski any type of ski and have a ton of fun. Search RUclips for "Return of the Turn, Episode 11 - Mogul Skiing at Mary Jane" or "Japanese mogul skiing" and you'll see fat skis and a lot of slalom skis (a lot of shape); yet, people have no trouble in their mogul technique. I hope that this helps.
at 64, I am sure glad he said up to 65! Wondering what I have to look forward to?
Ha!!!!!
I do ok on 102's in the bumps. Fat skis wouldn’t be my first choice I guess but you learn to live with what you bring to the mountains. I'm not competing with anyone either.
Dalbello boots!
Nonsense on the “can’t ski fat ski’s in moguls”! I ski 75-80% moguls! Give me bumps or give me death! My narrowest set of ski’s are Stockli Stormrider 95’s. They are probably my all time favorite mogul ski’s, and over the years (I’m 58, been skiing since 7), I’ve skied on just about everything! I also ski Rossi Soul7 HD’s in bumps all the time. Think they are 106 under foot, they are great in moguls as well. If you know how to ski bumps, width doesn’t make a whole lotta difference if you ask me. Length and stiffness matter more to me.
As you say "If you know how ro ski bumps". Folks go to fat skis before they know how to ski well enough. Learn the skills first. Glad you like your wide skis in the bumps. Narrower skis in the bumps will be quicker from turn to turn and cat like versatile. 😉
As someone who rides either 90mm or 100mm twin tip skis, I’m gonna ignore that first tip
Lol. There’s a guy at my local resort who skis semi-wide (guessing around 100mm underfoot) twin tips for everything and looks insanely graceful doing it. I love watching him ski. His lines through black diamond mogul runs look like brush strokes from a master painter. It’s poetry.
Still, inspired by Deb’s take on narrower skis, I bought a pair of Stöckli Laser AXs at 78mm underfoot this year and LOVE them. I skied them in fresh powder (4 inches) last weekend and it was so enjoyable and easy. I felt deep joy and gratitude all day ~ for life in general and for my amazing skis! :)
All of that is not to say that I don’t also absolutely love my Line Sick Day 104s. I’ve had such a good time in even deeper powder on those and I actually ski them quite well in just about all conditions. However, I do find the Stöcklis easier to ski in most “everyday” conditions and a bit less fatiguing over a long day.
I ride 100s and 116s, lol rode the 116s in mostly moguls last weekend
Thanks Deb for another informative vid! 98mm Sin7 seems to work beautifully in bumps for me - only ski in quiver and works well in crud too but I use wider outfitter provided skis for cat / heli. Going to try something narrower given the pro advice here.
@@dennisrogers4665 there is something to be said about making the best of what you have. Obviously my skiing style is more freestyle focussed and this season I’ve been working on riding switch a lot. Definitely not skiing zipper lines yet but i am tempted to rent some short skis on an icy day to see how they turn and handle in the bumps
I recall a tick-tock video (I don't recall who's) that got me thinking "quick turns" as in turn to the rhythm of it and practice on groomers before moguls. With the ski width issue, I understand. Fat's just can't get the edge going quick enough. I'm going to demo some narrower skis tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. I also ski on 100 flex boots so I hope they're not too stiff to get those knees over the toes. GREAT VID ! DEBSTRONG!!!
That was Bobby with the Tick-tock video also
@@frankchiappone3062 THANK YOU! I thought he looked familiar!
@@frankchiappone3062 Hey Frank... This is Chip Lunsford. I was working on hips forward..uphill hip drive today in Santa Fe. So sorry to miss you guys this year at Bumpa. Next year!!!! Have a great time.
Ya, that tick tock video was mine with Bobby. Check out the mogul Playlist. I am so happy the videos are helping!!!!!
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong I searched your name, Bobby A's, moguls, on Tik Tok, no luck. Please advise. Love your content Deb.
Wish I’d have seen these videos pre buying skis. I would’ve bought skinnier skis.
People have skis (length) way above their abilities, learn on short skis and move up as your abilities improve. Most people I see have skis way too long. I use ski length as part of my speed control, big difference in a GS ski 185cm than one at 165cm...like 20 mph
Proper technique with skills that include proper edge control and turn shape are major factors in speed control. Deb does a great job teaching all of those in her instructional videos. While a shorter ski is easier to control and easier to learn on skiers still have to develop skills. I have skied and worked in ski shops since the 1970’s. Ski size includes several factors. A skiers weigh, height and skills are important but ski design is also very important. If a ski has more rocker you ski it longer. Skis like the blizzard Rustler series are designed to float in soft snow.The bigger the boat the better it floats. All mountain skis are designed for variable snow with less rocker and waist width in the mid 80 + mm. They should be head length or above. I ski the Blizzard Brahma 88 in 171 cm at 145 lbs 5’5”. Racing type front side carving skis like the Blizzard Firebird HRC with a World Cup race plate like Deb skis on can be skied shorter because you want a tight turn radius. The turn quick but be aware the require lots of skier input. They are not forgiving if you make a mistake.
Very helpful video for me.
I consider myself a good skier ( 80kg 5'8") however I ski best when my boots are loosened (Tecnica cochise 90 flex)
when tightened I struggle to get my knees over my toes to turn the Atomic SX10 160 skis as I would like.
I get the feeling that a shorter or less stiff ski would fix this, but so would a different boot.
Not sure what to do, any advice please?
Gosh, difficult for me to say from my phone never having seen you ski
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thanks for taking the time to reply all the same Deb
Super video! I applauded for $2.00 👏
Thank yiu, thank you. I appreciate your support of the channel.👍👍💪💪😊😊