Secrets of the Herculaneum Papyri
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- The Herculaneum papyri, scrolls buried and charred by Vesuvius, are the most tantalizing puzzle in Roman archaeology. I recently visited the Biblioteca Nazionale in Naples, where most of the papyri are kept, and discussed the latest efforts to decipher the scrolls with Dr. Federica Nicolardi.
My interview with Dr. Nicolardi: • Reading the Herculaneu...
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Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:40 Opening the scrolls
1:47 A visit to the library
2:38 A papyrologist at work
4:00 The Vesuvius Challenge
4:46 What the scrolls say
5:40 Contents of the unopened scrolls
6:28 The other library
7:12 An interview with Dr. Nicolardi
I work at the University of Kentucky, and am so proud of the work that Dr. Searles and his team have done in enabling the Herculaneum scrolls to be virtually examined as part of the Vesuvius Challenge.
@@wendywhitley4611 🌿😜🌿👍 Whoo Doggies!
Excellent!
@@optimusprinceps3526 Wildcats?
@@One.DeSanctis. Jethro Beau Dean
Dude the world is hella proud of you guys!
Lifting out faded writings on 2000 year old carbonized sheets of papyri is a Herculanean task indeed.
hey-oooo!
ZING
jesus dude
I saw what you did there. LOL
Get out.
The prospect of yet undiscovered scrolls with lost histories is super exciting to me
I DONT AGREE
Im waiting for biblical history hyped up.
There is a realistic expectation of thousands more scrolls not yet excavated. A likely find is Pliny the Elder's history of Rome up to the eruption. Galen wrote hundreds of books of which only the medical topics were considered by the monasteries to be worth preserving.
Yeah, I would just love to read a lost work, what a triumph for the ages it would be.
Even a joke book, or a thing that we knew was false or their misunderstanding, like a collection of folk tales, would be so revealing of all sorts of things.
But imaging getting one of the lost works that other authors refer to . . .
A large trove of scrolls might contain the lost works of Claudius, including a history of the Etruscans and an Etruscan dictionary. That would be a fantastic find.
Fingers crossed for Claudius' History of the Etruscans
The hundreds of scrolls destroyed in previous attempts to read them :(
It saddens me too but I don’t blame anyone - nobody knew better at the time, and no one could have imagined the technology we would have at our disposal. It would literally have seemed like magic.
We had to fall a few times so we can run nowadays.
And the millions lost with time, do not cry over spoiled eggs.
There may yet remain more undiscovered. This is the epitome of careful research
@@Sashazur People back then were not stupid, they understood what scientific advances were and even if they couldn't imagine our technology, they knew there will be something that would allow non-destructive ways of reading the text. Sadly, they were not willing to let it be and wait. Same with us, we uncover many archeological sites and it is only in the past couple of decades we tend to sometimes use non-destructive tech.
imagine being one of these scientists, how insanely eager they probably are to read them, yet how careful they have to be. borderline magic, and an unbelievable degree of care
La Biblioteca Nazionale in Naples is absolutely a treasure; there are remnants in that city that really testify as to the importance of that kingdom prior to unification. Not to mention the ancient wonders left to her by the Greek and the Romans.
The new technology of being able to read burnt papyrus is just the best addition in archeology! that and the marine archeology will help human kind to rediscover their ancestors lives, culture and history.
When these papyrii were posted online in HQ I ran them through ChatGPT blind, to see if it could translate them. On the first try it managed to identify a couple of full words. This was back over a year ago I think. The future of archaeology is very bright with these types of technologies, and we are just getting started...
My longheld wish-that somebody find a copy of Ptolemy the First’s “Life of Alexander” may be about to come true…
Or the asinius pollio history of the civil wars of Caesar and Pompey
That’s my wish too!
I would also like to see Claudius’ “History of Carthage.”
@@HiDesert004 Uncle Claudius' Etruscan Dictionary would be my dream book to find here.
That is such a specific wish. Most people finding an oil lamp with a genie would probably ask for money, or power, but I respect this choice much more.
I love this project, I can't get enough of it. Please report as more info comes out!
I second this
Pretty amazing that so much of these can actually be read, such a valuable resource of information from the times!
I tried to think of a joke of what could be found, what would be the absolute least interesting thing to find. I thought, "ancient memes? pornographic writing? bad poetry?" But I came to realize that it would all be fascinating, from the draft oratory all the way to the poop jokes.
Using cat scan technology to detect the carbon ink and digitally reassemble and unscroll the book is amazing.
I was surprised he never mentioned the use of high-resolution CT scans of the scrolls to get the data the machine learning was applied to.
@@flamencoprof Or that it wasn't any ordinary CT scanner, but a particle accelerator, that was used for the scans, for the fine resolution they need. They will probably end up needing to build their own mini-accelerator to scan the remaining hundreds of already-exhumed scrolls, and the possible thousands yet to be dug up.
In this case, not told in stone but in papyrus
It's worthy of any ancient fable!
So rare to find such high quality, easy to pallet, and publicly available video from an academic. I would love to see you and @premodernist do a video or podcast together (no affiliation). 10/10
I am hoping for one of the dialogues of Aristotle. Can you imagine!
I'm so excited to hear what kinds of stories they'll find in these scrolls
Imagine that one of the discovered papyri says: "Let's say in the Senate that Nero has been deposed by a revolt in Hispania fabricated by us. What a laugh we will have when we tell Caesar that it was just a prank!!! XD"
His uncle Caligula would have blushed
It’s so hard, to wrap one’s head around. I can’t really wait to see scrolls unwrapped. And translations produced and made widely available and accessible.
But it feels worlds away. I recently picked up a 1932 translation of a Neapolitan book from 1660s. Only the first volume had until 1932 been partially translated and published. And 1932 published both.
AI will soon have its crack at auto-translating physical texts.
Im want to know what they say so bad, im so hyped
Tacitus, Suetonius, and Flavius Josephus had a lot to say as well
Fascinating, one of the best channels on the platform.
Thank you so much for this video
When new Rome lore drops.
Based
A year or more ago a PBS like science archeology vid was posted about how microscopic lazers & Xray etc were being used to scan fragile scrolls by layers without unrolling them due to age conditions, they were from some other location collection. Tho still some guessing has to be done for over lapping or barely readable writing from the lost ink impressions etc.
Ive been following this for many years. So excited
Thank you for the Dr and her research team in unlocking the history, the things we could learn !! Its all exciting
Well I am amazed by the patience of those restauration experts, Is like a hard difficulty puzzle and the cool things is one u finish to put all the piece in place u can read stories, messages written by people 2000 years ago :) that most be so rewarding after all those efforts.
This was briefly mentioned in a tech article. I'm really glad to see this much more about it and being able to see portions of them.
Its Crazy how we are able to discover this ancient history. I hope some amazing info is discovered.
I was in Herculaneum, and got a rock from there, walking there was awesome but the most valuable information i learned after. Nothing is that impressive if you don't know what you're looking at, it will take a lifetime to fully appreciate the ruins
I'm so fascinated by the possibilities here. I wonder whether there will be anything completely unexpected
This is pretty incredible
Those guys have got to be in the running for a Nobel Prize, surely?
“Esne ibi, Iuppiter? Est me, Margarita...”
Read a while about that, this is so exciting for me. Seing this here in Video is great, love how they are displaying the Scrolls.
Big Thanks to her and the Team to invite you and bringing those Pictures to us!
Never knew about these, so cool!!
Please contain the lost parts of the Epic Cycle or the Tyrrhenika
How amazing modern technology is, this is going to be amazing when we read these
Fantastic!
In theory, there could be some writings about first century Christianity (even just as an aside) somewhere among the petrified scrolls. The impact of finding such would be *huge* .
Probably not wrong period of time there wasn’t much interest in that at this time
@@alienvampirebusterswhoyoug8257 I'm not *expecting* a sudden religious revelation that will change what the world things of Jesus, but I have to consider it's entirely *possible* (especially since this cache appears to be philosophy heavy)
@@kanrakucheese the Romans considered Christians at this time as a disruptive cult as you know I wouldn’t expect anything supporting it or even chronicling it in my opinion unless they maybe find letters or something like that there would be no reason for any Christian material to be in a library
@@alienvampirebusterswhoyoug8257 I agree, but even just an aside mention ("unlike those nuts over in...") could have huge implications.
I believe it is genuinely one of the great travesties of archeology / classical studies that the Italian government will not permit additional exploration and excavation of the Villa. It's just mind-boggling. There are many, many sites throughout Italy where the philosophy has been "conservation" rather than "excavation" and that's generally understandable, but for THIS PARTICULAR SITE the potential gains in terms of lost classical texts are ENORMOUS. It's a testament to the dysfunction of the authorities in Italy and the lack of good lobbying capacity within the classics world that these red tape burdens haven't been able to be overcome and more full-throated advocates for excavating haven't come forward. It's really just wild.
keep us updated
Thrilling stuff. So excited to hear more voices directly from the past.
Enjoyed your new book. Will there be a third?
There will indeed! At the moment, I'm working on two books - another sequel to "Naked Statues" and a book about the Roman frontier. Stay tuned...
@@toldinstone That's good. I'll look forwards to the Statues sequel.
This is amazing.
I want to know more! Love this!
Most enjoyable. Thanks. ☺
very cool
Nice Easter egg using Papyrus typeface as the font for the opening credits
Is there any chance that we can find scrolls in other places?
There may be others around Herculaneum, and additional papyri will likely come to light in Egypt.
painful to think about what was lost in the scrolls they tried to force open during the 19th century... Why did they continue after breaking the first few?
They kept convincing themselves that they had figured out a better method.
Keep in mind that in the 19th century they had no way of knowing that the technology we now have would ever exist. They were doing the best they could with what they had.
@@toldinstone Does anyone have even a rough estimate of how many scrolls were lost to such efforts?
@@Inkling777yeah, if anything they were probably smarter than us
This does seem to be the closest we'll ever get to possibly finding some of the scrolls of Alexandria doesn't it? A few things that were lost might somehow be hidden in that carbon. We can all dream of a secret annex library that contains all the histories lost th😅 andat this guy kept away from all his philosophy stuff.
Thanks!
Deeply appreciated!
So far, every scroll consists of the phrase “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy” repeated over and over.
Hurry up babe @toldinstone posted a new video!
Wonderful! I have nothing useful to add but am making this comment to help the channel a wee bit. Hmmm...well...YT creators are constantly telling us that comments help. 😉 And I do like the comments from folks who enjoy this channel. YT comments in general? Uhh...never mind.
Extremely interesting this video regarding the papyrus of Herculaneum to be readable. I know that I'm writing nonsense but to be able to read lost history of Alexander the Great or of Rome itself would be fantastic! Thanks for sharing this very interesting video 👍👍👍
The scrolls that seemed most beyond recovery to earlier ... "rescuers", are now the ones likely to give best results?
They're all we have left, unfortunately. The ones they left alone were the least promising scrolls - too warped or charred to be worth unwrapping mechanically.
good video!
So these discovers provoked more questions and a video suggestion from me
Could you do a video on say the top 10 questions antiquities academics have about the ancient world or are seeking to answer? What introgues them the most?
Fascinating.
This is super interesting
Let's go dig up plato damnit.
Bonus nuntium 👍
I do hope there is a readable copy of the dictionary by the emperor Claudius of Etruscan.
So cool the first word uncovered was porphyras…purple. One of the main drugs in use at that time and place was the Burning Purple.
Spelling mistake in title card. Love this channel!!
Amazing technology to be able to read them unopened. I can't imagine how it's done.
I can't imagine why he didn't mention it was done using high-resolution CT scans of the scrolls. The machine learning was then employed to separate the layers virtually.
I Love it when we get to correct history
so cool.
New "Western Civilization" lore dropping soon
Computed Tomography or Magnetic Resonance Imaging should negate the need to destroy these scrolls by attempting to unroll and read them. It's all a matter of the right settings, histograms and stitching software and these should be able to be read in their entirety in digital format. I think something similar has been done with the dead sea scrolls
That is the entire point of this video.
Unfortunately he didn't mention that high-resolution CT scans of the scrolls were done and they were what the machine learning was applied to.
Your channel is now briefly, Told in Carbonized Papyri
Wow, beautiful and smart. 🔥
We got disintegrated ancient philosophy DLC before GTA VI
Fascinating stuff. We are so clever. Do you suppose the nature of Pompeii as a "pleasure centre" was somehow connected to why so much Epicurean philosophical writing was found there? Thanks for your work. It's very much appreciated
Interesting.
It sounds like a specialized bookstore. How can anyone hold off on excavating the rest of the building, when there may be more, and more varied, scrolls? On the bright side, the next generation of devices that can read inside unopened scrolls will probably have a resolution an order of magnitude greater than the current equipment, making scroll reading even faster.
I understand that since the villa was first excavated ca 250 years ago, several city blocks of housing and shops have been built over top.
@@ohppig1I saw a documentary on Italian state tv 1 month ago and they interviewed the director of the archeological site of Pompei and Herculaneum and he said they don’t want to rush the exacavations because they believe in the future we will have better preservation techniques. Like the things they excavated 250 years ago are ruined, now they excavate better but in the future maybe they will consider our way of digging barbaric like we consider the guys who opened the scrolls with a knife. The thing is they could not even imagine AI or things like that just like we cannot imagine future technology. Still I hope this villa will be explored in my lifetime.
@@marcobelli6856 Future technology may invent a Time Machine - then all will be revealed about what really happened! (I'm talking science fiction probably)
@@ohppig1 Where's a good pyroclastic flow when you need one?
Mount Vesuvius Erupts - read all about it.
Brought to you by the Miller's guild
No it was Etna in Sicily that erupted yesterday.
@@kaloarepo288 You missed the joke.
Could you go over ancient family dynamics? So fascinating.
Yes, I was hoping that we'll find more literature and history. Not Epicurean philosophy. The other stuff is promising. I hope they find a copy of 'On Sphere Making' by Archimedes.
Vesuvius Challenge much better than the 'Tide Pod Challenge' Thank you
omw 😂😅
February 2023, classical scholar Richard Janko announced that he and Seales' team, assisted by artificial intelligence, had managed to read a small part of one heavily damaged, previously unreadable Herculaneum papyrus. The text appeared to be part of a lost work about Alexander the Great and the Diadochi. (It's definitely exciting news, that's going to take time to flesh out!)😅 unburn those scrolls!
Absolutely wonderful technology you would have been a kid in a candy store😂
..so that whole villa was owned by Philodemus of Gadara? ..or was he there as a guest of some other patron?
The villa was probably owned by Lucius Calpurnius Piso, an aristocratic Roman known to have been Philodemus' patron.
Let s hope we discover some new unconfirmed history, maybe there are more scrolls in Pompei if we keep digging, i can only imagine some peasant in the middle ages finding scrolls all across italy and using them to start a fire or wipe their bottom, maybe the diary scrolls of Trajan's conquest of Dacia
Im waiting for the hyped up early christian possibilities mainly.
Please do a review on the new Gladiator trailer. Very interested to hear your thoughts on the historical accuracies and to get your general reaction.
FYI, there's a drop of a word or two at the start of many of your sentences.
I very much enjoy your videos. 😊
Love it when technology does something good---& there is nothing like a contest to get the geeks in gear!
U should make longer videos 2!!
Surely they can do better than just holding it under the microscope. There are precision desktop slates that tilt in both directions with micro level precision.
I hope they have a greek professor with them, otherwise how do they know if the text lies on the same page and not the one behind?
I think we can safely assume that they know what they are doing!
😂 In Italy we study Latin and Ancient Greek during High school. Papirologist have Master degrees.
MANIPULUS ToldInStone, CONGREGATIO!
Dr. Nicolardi is easy on the eyes.
Similar research going on in Israel with 3d scanning tech, also burned scrolls deciphered.
Gigachad video
Can someone explain why in the world they would not excavate this in its entirety and thereby doing everything possible to preserve the scrolls that might lie within? Of all the money that's wasted on the dumbest things, it seems like there would be billionaires out there who would be able to throw enough cash to make this happen. Why wouldn't the Italian government to vote resources to excavating and preserving these scrolls for possible decipherization?
Isn't there an active city above that portion of the old town? Naples? It's probably a safety issue.
It is discussed in the interview video
Considering this villa was likely owned by Caesar’s father-in-law at one time, I am hopeful that there may be a definitive bust or statue of Caesar to uncover.
They’ve lasted 2000 years where they are. It is probably safer to leave them buried until and unless they are known to be threatened.
Well, if archeologists & geologists had it their way completely, the whole surface of earth would be dug twice over.
They ever going to make some of this public? Or are they going to monetize the data I wonder?
Nicolardi can call me whenever goddamn
😮