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JBL and Harman give a lot of bang for the buck. I purchased some Studio 590's for $800 shipped. They are delivered by truck on a pallet. I do not know how they can sell these for such a low price.
@@TexasCorgiGun That's not true at all. I mean they're a value-priced tower for sure, but you can check out this video to see the inside the 580s: ruclips.net/video/bUSdMUuhKjw/видео.html They look completely fine, especially for the price. Also no one has taken anechoic measurements of the 590. An Australian magazine took some in-room measurements and they loved the speaker. ASR reviewed the 530 with his Klippel and recommended it too.
@@TexasCorgiGun but have you heard them? Maybe not the highest quality parts but sound amazing! Jbl can do amazing budget speakers because the spend so much on R&D for professional speakers and that R&D trickles down.
I can honestly say that I've never had a JBL speaker I didn't like. They aren't always the best. but they are consistently very good. I sold some awhile back and now regret it. I originally bought them as surrounds in a home theater I was building, but then found a deal on some Klipsch surrounds, and used them because my front stage is Klipsch. Well, the Klipsch surrounds I bought are not their best effort, so I wish I would have stuck with the JBLs. Well, live and learn. I'll eventually spring for better surrounds.
Thanks Erin for having an ear for the music we grew up with. It makes your descriptions that much easier to understand. While I enjoy a classical masterpiece or even opera, that’s not what I listen to for enjoyment most days. I will listen to the Doobie Brothers or John Mellencamp or Steely Dan. I recognize those songs and can hear when a speaker is pushing the upper mids or lacks bass so that music as well as what you listen to makes it easier to understand what you’re saying in your reviews.
These are straight up pro studio monitors, not exactly intended for home Hi-fi use. I like em.....ALOT. The wireless pairing does have me a bit skeptical though, how will that radio signal translate through someones mix in the end?
"Crappy masters upsampled to a higher sampling rate with higher bit depth." In other words a rip off since the upsampled product contains no more information than the original master. A core tenet of information theory is you can't create or recover information that was lacking in the original sample, so no way to capture aspects of the original performance that were never recorded in the first place. Seems basic, but it needs to be pointed out from time to time. Once again, Erin, an excellent review. You seem to be the only person with the Klippel who looks at the dynamic response of the speaker. That chart showing how the speakers behave at 86, 96, and 102 db is really illuminating. I wish Amir's reviews covered this performance aspect as well. You're also doing an excellent job of procuring these speakers for review. You've just about hit everything on my review wish list. Now if you could just find a way to get your hands on a pair of Sierra LX's and LS 60 Wireless.....Guess we should give it time.
Seems very decent for small to medium room! Would be great if you could review more active speakers too - (Vanatoo, Edifier, Airpulse, Swans in mind) these are like $450-900 actives that I think have very good value proposition
I appreciate your short intro!! .. It's a great short splash and not overly loud compared to your vocals in the video.. JBL is classic .. regardless of anything. It's awesome to see there legacy is still strong.
I forget who said it, I think it was Amir @ ASR, but hi-rez audio with high frequency noise causes audible amplifier distortion below 20KHz when nearing the clipping & thermal limits. From what I've seen, most hi-rez tracks just have that mirrored aliasing artifacts or a hump of random and content un-related noise from 20-50KHz. Again, Amir's youtube channel was showing this with musicscope.
I absolutely love my JBL 4309. Just trying to get the best integrated amp for it. I purchased the Marantz Model 40n and in my opinion it wasn't a good matching. I heard the JBL SA750 with the HDI6000 and that was an excellent pairing. Thinking of doing the Arcam SA30 now to go with the 4309. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.
I use the Audiolab 8300A with HDI-1600 speakers and to me it sounds great. I cannot recommend the SA30 because I had a Arcam Alpha 10P before and the bass was bloated. The Audiolab sounds a lot cleaner. If I was you, I'd look at separates (DAC+power amp)... But since you ask for an integrated, I can recommend Audiolab. Or maybe take a look at Yamaha or Anthem 👍
I'm wondering when you measure THD, distortion , etc., did you use the analog or digital input? Would using an external DAC be better or worse considering it would add an additional ADC in the signal path? Thanks! 😊🙏
Excellent Video most informative i have found on these speakers, Looking to get away from my passive setup tired of chasing better sound. .Would you say they qualify as audiophile grade?
Hey, thank you for your GREAT work. Now I have two JBL 306P, and I think 306p is enough GOOD but I want BETTER. I am considering JBL 705P,4305p, or KH150A. what do you advise？Thanks
Hi Erin! Great post as usual. The little JBL 220 is an absolute gem. Not a lot of call, I guess, for 3 1/2 driver, but what an amazing little speaker. Smokes the Sony CCS whatever the heck(a speaker I own and like). JBL continues to amaze me. They seem to get poo pooed by the “true” audiophiles, but they make amazing stuff!
What you are trying to say is this speaker does not follow the "J"unk "B"ut "L"oud acronym. The commercial JBL speakers I used in systems did not follow that either. Of course I had dsp to notch out problems.
Yeah, I remember the acronym from times when did co-op at Pro-Audio place. Actually we did an install and the drunk DJ fried half of woofers. Next, I was learning how to recone 2226s, six of them. I heard from the club staff that they received hefty fines for noise violation during the weekend. JBL certainly have some bite, but to call them 'junk but loud' it's a huge mistake.
Thanks! Highly considering getting these speakers for tv and casual movie watching in an apartment. They seem to be very flat and neutral.@@ErinsAudioCorner
Hi Erin really like your videos.does the jbl c221 use the same hf driver as in the M2.How does the M2 compare with the dedicated jbl cinema speakers. Have you listened to Pro audio technology & James loudspeakers before.Is there an endgame skeaker out there with no ear fatigue that can play at reference levels? Btw my project is home cinema. Thanks
@@bilguana11 Hmmm... It doesn't seem to be an issue in speakers such as the Dutch & Dutch 8C or Kii Audio THREES that are both Highly Regarded and rely on extensive DSP and ADC/DAC conversion. Nor is it an issue with Grammy-winning tracking, mixing, and mastering engineers that are using Genelec and other active DSP studio monitors to actually PRODUCE the sometimes ANALOG music that you are listening to. You are very special, indeed. Even basic, inexpensive DAC chips these days produce and spit out a "perfect copy" of the analog input waveform. You can prove this with a simple comparative ADC/DAC null test. There is WAY MORE VARIABILITY and degradation and/or deviation of the input signal when passing through any ANALOG preamplifier and amplifier stages. But even there, it is quite straightforward to produce a relatively inexpensive analog circuit that is pretty much "straight wire with gain". But BY FAR, any Spectral Balance or "Harshness" (or lack of it) that you hear will be due to the transducer's or individual drive unit's inherent Frequency Response and Non-Linearities, along with the combined response that the enclosures and crossover networks contribute, and finally, room acoustics. 99% of the music that you listen to has already gone through *multiple* ADC & DAC conversions during the recording and production process. Even the highly respected mastering engineer, Eric Boulanger, at *The Bakery Mastering* prefers to use Digital Files and a DAC to send the input signal to his highly modified ANALOG Vinyl Cutting Lathe to produce the master lacquer discs for his "audiophile" quality vinyl LPs. Eric is also an accomplished classical violinist. Check his discography. So, while I'm not saying that "all DACs or ADCs sound the same" (they obviously use a combination of digital + analog circuitry), I seriously DOUBT that the "harshness" you might hear in these or other speakers produced by companies such as JBL has anything to do with the use of ADC, DAC, or DSP in the speaker. ;) In fact, if you are in L.A. you are welcome to visit and I'll give you a demo and Blind A/B/X test using some very revealing and accurate DIY 3-way concentric studio monitors that I built for my home studio (I play drums/percussion/saxophone). I used a miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 v2 to fine tune the crossover networks and overall response of the speakers. And once i was satisfied, I then built high-quality passive network filters based on the DSP's XO settings. I can level match both, and set one speaker to play through the active DSP networks, and the other will use the passive XO networks with the same attributes. Both will be powered by the same amplifiers. Let's see if you can distinguish one from the other reliably while switching from Left to Right instantly using the L/R balance control, and we'll post the results here?
@@bbfoto7248 I tried using the HEDD TYPE 05 MK IIs. The originals, with the same drivers are great, but the harshness of IIs is intense so I had to return them. I have heard the JBL 705s & 708s and they drove me out of the demo room at AES. But I could see that most engineers and producers couldn't hear the problems as they were salivating. Reviewer Steve Guttenberg doesn't like powered speakers with DSP either.
@Bill Crane Well, I'm not surprised. Never cared for most of the Adam monitors or their glorified siblings (HEDD) and how they have usually implemented the AMTs. And with the Type 05 Mk II, IMO most of the particular added controls/adjustments that they've chosen to implement with DSP are somewhat of a gimmick and not entirely necessary if they'd just taken proper care in the design of the speaker's response from the start. So in that regard I can understand how you might prefer the originals. Oh, and the last place that I'd ever want to demo or come to any meaningful conclusion about ANY set of speakers is at some type of convention space, whether in a separate room, or not. :/ Speaking to the other JBLs you heard at AES, ideally, the speakers should be evaluated in your own listening space that is familiar, consistent, and "predictable", using your existing or available speaker locations and listening position. For example, no serious professional recording/mixing/mastering engineer would drop $4k+ or usually significantly more on studio monitors (or any loudspeakers) without first evaluating them for at least a week in their own listening and monitoring environment. This is expected by the dealers who sell these systems and is SOP. Excellent, mediocre, or just plain bad speakers have all been produced at one time or another by nearly all reputable manufacturers. Sometimes, just for the sake of creating renewed interest and sales, or to follow a current trend, a manufacturer will make a "wrong turn" in the design and implementation of a new or "updated" model. Probably the case with the HEDD Type 05 II. Just as in all other aspects of speaker design, the A/D & D/A conversion and DSP must be implemented properly as well. IMPE, you simply cannot make a *Blanket Statement* that ALL speakers that incorporate DSP and/or digital conversion will be "harsh" or inferior to an equivalent passive design. There are literally thousands of speaker designs, good and bad, with and without DSP. Confirmation Bias has also been proven to play a significant roll in our subjective impressions and "conclusions". This aspect cannot be denied. No matter what our ears actually hear, our brain will often suggest otherwise based on biases. I'll admit that I currently use primarily active designs in my home studio and casual listening room, and none of them to my knowledge use *internal* digital conversion or DSP....Neumann KH120A, ATC SCM25a, and my own DIY 10" midbass + 5" concentric MF/HF 3-way design using BMS & Ciare drivers. And I'm currently working on trying to acquire another passive design floorstander in the Børresen Acoustics 03 after hearing them in a relative's high-end home system, but will probably need to sell BOTH kidneys AND my heart to acquire them, LOL. So not really much of a chance, unfortunately. :-P However, I do use a miniDSP with DIRAC Live correction on two of my setups, and ALL aspects of the respective sound were improved and more lifelike in presentation with this addition, with no detrimental artifacts. And I can easily reference this through my own live instruments and my recordings of them in my own space. Again, I'm not saying that ALL speakers that use Digital Conversion or DSP will *always* be equal or better compared to a simpler and equivalent passive design. Only that the DSP or digital conversion itself is *most likely* not the true reason for a particular speaker's perceived shortcomings or negatively perceived sonic character. Regarding Steve Guttenberg and his apparent dislike for active speakers that use digital conversion or DSP, it seems that he has no issues with owning and listening to thousands of CDs that all require a laser pickup and Digital to Analog Conversion, or any number of standalone outboard DACs? IMO, that is a bit hypocritical, as a DAC is essentially a "Digital Signal Processor". And it's fairly obvious that Steve is "old school" and does not fully understand the true technical aspects of digital signal processing, electronic circuits, or complex acoustics as they apply to individual transducers and combining multiple transducers into a loudspeaker system, with the complex mathematical interactions and effects of particular crossover filter networks on the combined response, etc. I'm not suggesting that I am any sort of expert here, either. But with the help of AES, and researchers like Shannon & Nyquist, Floyd Toole, Earl Geddes, Sigfried Linkwitz, Klippel, Sean Olive, and our own Erin Hardison, my understanding has grown leaps and bounds. We often tend to dismiss, minimize, or create "other reasons and excuses" for the things we simply do not understand or cannot fully explain. Ancient civilizations all had many "God" myths and "fairytales" about earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and "heavenly" phenomenon such as lunar & solar eclipses, comets & meteorites, etc, because they did not understand the science and physics behind them. Today when these events happen, we (hopefully) don't attribute them to an angry god, gods, or mystical being(s)! We have studied, learned, and now understand at least some of the science and physics behind these events. In terms of the science and physics of electronics & acoustics, it's apparent that Steve's understanding has not quite kept up with the times. In addition, Steve is heavily influenced by NOSTALGIA (though most of us are as well...so, IOW, Confirmation Bias). AND Steve G. is using ~70 year old ears at this point with significantly diminished hearing loss and anomalies that are simply unavoidable. And he conducts most of his listening evaluations and reviews in a Noisy Brooklyn Apartment with many distractions. Please consider the following from *Audiology Org's* "Age-Related Hearing Loss" article pertaining to 70 y.o. & older: "Age-related hearing loss features not only an increased difficulty hearing in the presence of background noise, but also a worsened hearing threshold. This means you have trouble hearing soft sounds EVEN when there is no other sound around you, such as a whisper or insect buzzing. [This means that Dynamics are out the window] Your ability to hear high-pitched noises is affected the most, so you probably have difficulty hearing children, some women, and people with certain accents. Typically, you can hear low-pitched noises at a relatively normal level for many more years, BUT you may take longer to understand them. Other symptoms of age-related hearing loss include an impaired ability to Process Sound Waves. You may hear a sound, but it takes longer for you to understand what it is. Localization is impaired too, which is the ability to know where a sound is coming from." ALL of these impairments will obviously affect your acute ability to effectively evaluate ANY loudspeaker or headphones! One last point. Nearly all music that is recorded and produced these days is done completely or in a large part "In The Box" using a PC, a multi-channel recording interface with internal ADCs & DACs, and *thousands* of DSP-based computer "plug-ins" that have replaced all of the old school analog outboard rackmount gear. And 95% of the "Hi-Res" releases and remasters/transfers of older, classic analog recordings are created using this same DSP-based "In The Box" process. So whether or not the music you listen to is recent or classic, Nearly all of it has been "digitised" in some way or another. And as I stated previously, even many of the best ANALOG Vinyl mastering engineers are using Digital equipment and DSP in the production and creation of analog vinyl albums. So listening to purely non-digital music will become more and more impossible. How is this different from its use in a loudspeaker? Digital conversion is already in the signal even before it is ouput to your speakers. It's a matter of understanding and properly & effectively using AD/DA conversion and DSP. They are simply TOOLS that can be used properly, or not, resulting in the experience of emotionally moving music, or a completely unpleasant listening experience. At least you know where your preferences are and can purchase accordingly. :) But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any loudspeaker based solely on it using digital conversion or DSP. Happy listening.
The 4309 would be the closest thing to it, but not quite the same. www.audioadvice.com/jbl-synthesis-4309-6-5-inch-bookshelf-speakers-pair+color-Walnut?gclid=Cj0KCQjwspKUBhCvARIsAB2IYutZsZrWum-KM_6PNmv7p-KlOYFrKxYUw6YyLBNFPyhkkE0xl1jqdXgaAgsyEALw_wcB
Never knew that the word "fascia" was pronounced the way that you pronounced it so I looked it up and it seems as though that you say it correctly. I somehow must have adopted the UK pronunciation even though I've lived in the US since birth. Learn something new everyday.
I could re tube and replace all four of the speakers in my Fender Super reverb for less than what these speakers coast. Why are audio speakers so much more expensive than instrument speakers.
These seem pretty decent. But there is no way in hell that they are worth $2200. I'm thinking maybe $300 - $400, but $2200? Someone is smoking crack...
Seems like a well engineered speaker. However I can't help but be somewhat underwhelmed after the pre-lauch hype this thing got. This is a very complete package and may therefor be interesting for home entertainment, but apart from that it really doesn't do anything special considering price and size.
You need to take into consideration that this speaker is your system....1 -100 watt Amp per woofer, 1-25 watt per tweeter for total of 250 watts of power and a built in high res dac....all you need is a streamer like the wiim mini and your listening to music....if you go the route of a passive system, you need to buy integrated Amp. Speakers and a dac....to beat the 4305p your going to spend at least $2200.
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Need to Pin this to the Top. ;)
BTW, Nice review and data. Thanks 👍
Just got these JBL's. Fantastic speaker and I was blown away by the detail it can deliver.
I hope you know that you're an absolute hero in the audio and home theater world, Erin ♥️
Man, that’s super nice of you to say. I’m gonna let that inflate my ego for a day. 👍😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Oh lawd, please Nooooooooooo! Haha.
JBL and Harman give a lot of bang for the buck. I purchased some Studio 590's for $800 shipped. They are delivered by truck on a pallet. I do not know how they can sell these for such a low price.
wow are you me lol
Have you take a look inside those 590 ? Not good man very cheap made and measurements are not good
@@TexasCorgiGun That's not true at all. I mean they're a value-priced tower for sure, but you can check out this video to see the inside the 580s: ruclips.net/video/bUSdMUuhKjw/видео.html
They look completely fine, especially for the price. Also no one has taken anechoic measurements of the 590. An Australian magazine took some in-room measurements and they loved the speaker. ASR reviewed the 530 with his Klippel and recommended it too.
@@TexasCorgiGun they're a lot better than most other towers at the price
@@TexasCorgiGun but have you heard them? Maybe not the highest quality parts but sound amazing! Jbl can do amazing budget speakers because the spend so much on R&D for professional speakers and that R&D trickles down.
I like this guy he appears to be honest. Honesty is refreshing as good music is Amen
He’s the real deal. Doesn’t pretty up a crap speaker with ambiguous words, which is so needed in today’s culture of usually not hearing before buying!
@@dawolyan13 Amen Brother
I mean, he does lie, but that’s because he says he’s ugly. Which we all know is false. He’s the most handsome man in the world.
TY anyway's
@@albertdenlar9101 no crosses of christianity! please!
Great review! Thanks for the shoutout 😀
Thanks for loaning them to me!
Between this speaker and the Klipsch The Fives, which one do you recommend for watching movies and video games objectively? Greetings from Argentina!
That thumbnail with Erin looking lovingly at the speaker while giving it a bottle😅😭🤣
😂😂😂
I wonder how these compare to THE FIVES from Klipsch....??? Nice review!
I can honestly say that I've never had a JBL speaker I didn't like. They aren't always the best. but they are consistently very good. I sold some awhile back and now regret it. I originally bought them as surrounds in a home theater I was building, but then found a deal on some Klipsch surrounds, and used them because my front stage is Klipsch. Well, the Klipsch surrounds I bought are not their best effort, so I wish I would have stuck with the JBLs. Well, live and learn. I'll eventually spring for better surrounds.
Hey Erin, just curious - how do these compare to the Buchardt A500s as an active 2.0 system solution in a small / medium living room?
Thanks Erin for having an ear for the music we grew up with. It makes your descriptions that much easier to understand. While I enjoy a classical masterpiece or even opera, that’s not what I listen to for enjoyment most days. I will listen to the Doobie Brothers or John Mellencamp or Steely Dan. I recognize those songs and can hear when a speaker is pushing the upper mids or lacks bass so that music as well as what you listen to makes it easier to understand what you’re saying in your reviews.
i wonder what JBL's' cost is on a pr of these?
These are straight up pro studio monitors, not exactly intended for home Hi-fi use. I like em.....ALOT. The wireless pairing does have me a bit skeptical though, how will that radio signal translate through someones mix in the end?
"Crappy masters upsampled to a higher sampling rate with higher bit depth." In other words a rip off since the upsampled product contains no more information than the original master. A core tenet of information theory is you can't create or recover information that was lacking in the original sample, so no way to capture aspects of the original performance that were never recorded in the first place. Seems basic, but it needs to be pointed out from time to time.
Once again, Erin, an excellent review. You seem to be the only person with the Klippel who looks at the dynamic response of the speaker. That chart showing how the speakers behave at 86, 96, and 102 db is really illuminating. I wish Amir's reviews covered this performance aspect as well.
You're also doing an excellent job of procuring these speakers for review. You've just about hit everything on my review wish list. Now if you could just find a way to get your hands on a pair of Sierra LX's and LS 60 Wireless.....Guess we should give it time.
Hopefully I can get hands on with the LS60’s sometime in the near future. May have to be a bit after they’ve been on the market, though.
Seems very decent for small to medium room!
Would be great if you could review more active speakers too - (Vanatoo, Edifier, Airpulse, Swans in mind) these are like $450-900 actives that I think have very good value proposition
i think it seems way more than "very decent". looks really good!
And Klipsch The Fives!
Thanks for the review! Any hiss from these guys?
Only when I cranked the gain to about 3/4 and above and put my ear to the tweeter (nothing connected).
Totally want this speaker for my casita in Portugal (one day...) - it's so cute!
Just like you!
What's up FOMO!! Check out the 4309!!
@@ErinsAudioCorner awww
In Portugal you might have a casinha (little house), casita you can find in spain ;)
I don't have the monies to ever buy speakers of this caliber but damn is it entertaining to hear you talk about them!
Are you going to review the Triangle AIO Twin Powered speaker?
I appreciate your short intro!! .. It's a great short splash and not overly loud compared to your vocals in the video..
JBL is classic .. regardless of anything. It's awesome to see there legacy is still strong.
Not overly loud because Erin is loud xD
@@RennieAsh His WIGS are loud... maybe that Second appearance of the Mickey shirt is loud... but.. Erin is pretty quiet. ..... 🙏🙃
Comparison needed between these and the Klipsch Nines. 🙃
I forget who said it, I think it was Amir @ ASR, but hi-rez audio with high frequency noise causes audible amplifier distortion below 20KHz when nearing the clipping & thermal limits. From what I've seen, most hi-rez tracks just have that mirrored aliasing artifacts or a hump of random and content un-related noise from 20-50KHz. Again, Amir's youtube channel was showing this with musicscope.
WHO DA FOOK IS DAT GUY!?!?!?
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 ruclips.net/channel/UCWp1NY1KXGwcOh1RxKp_-FA
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 lol
I absolutely love my JBL 4309. Just trying to get the best integrated amp for it. I purchased the Marantz Model 40n and in my opinion it wasn't a good matching. I heard the JBL SA750 with the HDI6000 and that was an excellent pairing. Thinking of doing the Arcam SA30 now to go with the 4309. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.
I use the Audiolab 8300A with HDI-1600 speakers and to me it sounds great.
I cannot recommend the SA30 because I had a Arcam Alpha 10P before and the bass was bloated.
The Audiolab sounds a lot cleaner.
If I was you, I'd look at separates (DAC+power amp)... But since you ask for an integrated, I can recommend Audiolab.
Or maybe take a look at Yamaha or Anthem 👍
Another great review. Hi-Res is nearly nothing more than upsampled lower bit rate music. Redbook is good enough.
I'm wondering when you measure THD, distortion , etc., did you use the analog or digital input?
Would using an external DAC be better or worse considering it would add an additional ADC in the signal path?
Thanks! 😊🙏
Excellent Video most informative i have found on these speakers, Looking to get away from my passive setup tired of chasing better sound. .Would you say they qualify as audiophile grade?
Entre este parlante y los Klipsch The Fives, cual me recomiendas para ver peliculas y videojuegos objetivamente? Saludos cordiales desde Argentina!
These or the Buchardt A10?
Hey, thank you for your GREAT work. Now I have two JBL 306P, and I think 306p is enough GOOD but I want BETTER. I am considering JBL 705P,4305p, or KH150A. what do you advise？Thanks
Should the crossovers be upgraded?
No. This is an active/powered speaker.
Thanks on the?... was in regards to G.R. research who probley couldnt much improve on them .I dont think Danny works on active speakers, David
Hi Erin! Great post as usual. The little JBL 220 is an absolute gem. Not a lot of call, I guess, for 3 1/2 driver, but what an amazing little speaker. Smokes the Sony CCS whatever the heck(a speaker I own and like). JBL continues to amaze me. They seem to get poo pooed by the “true” audiophiles, but they make amazing stuff!
What you are trying to say is this speaker does not follow the "J"unk "B"ut "L"oud acronym. The commercial JBL speakers I used in systems did not follow that either. Of course I had dsp to notch out problems.
Yeah, I remember the acronym from times when did co-op at Pro-Audio place. Actually we did an install and the drunk DJ fried half of woofers. Next, I was learning how to recone 2226s, six of them. I heard from the club staff that they received hefty fines for noise violation during the weekend. JBL certainly have some bite, but to call them 'junk but loud' it's a huge mistake.
So...the JBL 4305P versus the JBL 705P, too similar to not bring up both when talking about either one.
These are cool looking powered speakers. I actually like them without the grilles.
JBL 4305P vs ariendal 1723 s thx bookshelf?
Such a good review! If you boost up the 1800 with a PEQ of 3db, would it help get rid of the null/dip?
Since it's a boundary cancellation, you'll be boosting an acoustic null that won't do anything.
Thanks! Highly considering getting these speakers for tv and casual movie watching in an apartment. They seem to be very flat and neutral.@@ErinsAudioCorner
Same way with the 705p that strange toe in. The 530s I could move all over???
Hi Erin really like your videos.does the jbl c221 use the same hf driver as in the M2.How does the M2 compare with the dedicated jbl cinema speakers.
Have you listened to Pro audio technology & James loudspeakers before.Is there an endgame skeaker out there with no ear fatigue that can play at reference levels?
Btw my project is home cinema.
Thanks
Miss this channel.
Analogue inputs are converted to digital and back to analogue. DSP has its own harshness.
This is unscientific nonsense
@@frosty6845 Some of us can hear it.
@@bilguana11
Hmmm... It doesn't seem to be an issue in speakers such as the Dutch & Dutch 8C or Kii Audio THREES that are both Highly Regarded and rely on extensive DSP and ADC/DAC conversion.
Nor is it an issue with Grammy-winning tracking, mixing, and mastering engineers that are using Genelec and other active DSP studio monitors to actually PRODUCE the sometimes ANALOG music that you are listening to.
You are very special, indeed.
Even basic, inexpensive DAC chips these days produce and spit out a "perfect copy" of the analog input waveform. You can prove this with a simple comparative ADC/DAC null test.
There is WAY MORE VARIABILITY and degradation and/or deviation of the input signal when passing through any ANALOG preamplifier and amplifier stages. But even there, it is quite straightforward to produce a relatively inexpensive analog circuit that is pretty much "straight wire with gain".
But BY FAR, any Spectral Balance or "Harshness" (or lack of it) that you hear will be due to the transducer's or individual drive unit's inherent Frequency Response and Non-Linearities, along with the combined response that the enclosures and crossover networks contribute, and finally, room acoustics.
99% of the music that you listen to has already gone through *multiple* ADC & DAC conversions during the recording and production process.
Even the highly respected mastering engineer, Eric Boulanger, at *The Bakery Mastering* prefers to use Digital Files and a DAC to send the input signal to his highly modified ANALOG Vinyl Cutting Lathe to produce the master lacquer discs for his "audiophile" quality vinyl LPs. Eric is also an accomplished classical violinist. Check his discography.
So, while I'm not saying that "all DACs or ADCs sound the same" (they obviously use a combination of digital + analog circuitry), I seriously DOUBT that the "harshness" you might hear in these or other speakers produced by companies such as JBL has anything to do with the use of ADC, DAC, or DSP in the speaker. ;)
In fact, if you are in L.A. you are welcome to visit and I'll give you a demo and Blind A/B/X test using some very revealing and accurate DIY 3-way concentric studio monitors that I built for my home studio (I play drums/percussion/saxophone).
I used a miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 v2 to fine tune the crossover networks and overall response of the speakers. And once i was satisfied, I then built high-quality passive network filters based on the DSP's XO settings.
I can level match both, and set one speaker to play through the active DSP networks, and the other will use the passive XO networks with the same attributes. Both will be powered by the same amplifiers. Let's see if you can distinguish one from the other reliably while switching from Left to Right instantly using the L/R balance control, and we'll post the results here?
@@bbfoto7248 I tried using the HEDD TYPE 05 MK IIs. The originals, with the same drivers are great, but the harshness of IIs is intense so I had to return them. I have heard the JBL 705s & 708s and they drove me out of the demo room at AES. But I could see that most engineers and producers couldn't hear the problems as they were salivating. Reviewer Steve Guttenberg doesn't like powered speakers with DSP either.
@Bill Crane
Well, I'm not surprised. Never cared for most of the Adam monitors or their glorified siblings (HEDD) and how they have usually implemented the AMTs.
And with the Type 05 Mk II, IMO most of the particular added controls/adjustments that they've chosen to implement with DSP are somewhat of a gimmick and not entirely necessary if they'd just taken proper care in the design of the speaker's response from the start. So in that regard I can understand how you might prefer the originals.
Oh, and the last place that I'd ever want to demo or come to any meaningful conclusion about ANY set of speakers is at some type of convention space, whether in a separate room, or not. :/
Speaking to the other JBLs you heard at AES, ideally, the speakers should be evaluated in your own listening space that is familiar, consistent, and "predictable", using your existing or available speaker locations and listening position.
For example, no serious professional recording/mixing/mastering engineer would drop $4k+ or usually significantly more on studio monitors (or any loudspeakers) without first evaluating them for at least a week in their own listening and monitoring environment. This is expected by the dealers who sell these systems and is SOP.
Excellent, mediocre, or just plain bad speakers have all been produced at one time or another by nearly all reputable manufacturers. Sometimes, just for the sake of creating renewed interest and sales, or to follow a current trend, a manufacturer will make a "wrong turn" in the design and implementation of a new or "updated" model. Probably the case with the HEDD Type 05 II.
Just as in all other aspects of speaker design, the A/D & D/A conversion and DSP must be implemented properly as well.
IMPE, you simply cannot make a *Blanket Statement* that ALL speakers that incorporate DSP and/or digital conversion will be "harsh" or inferior to an equivalent passive design. There are literally thousands of speaker designs, good and bad, with and without DSP.
Confirmation Bias has also been proven to play a significant roll in our subjective impressions and "conclusions". This aspect cannot be denied. No matter what our ears actually hear, our brain will often suggest otherwise based on biases.
I'll admit that I currently use primarily active designs in my home studio and casual listening room, and none of them to my knowledge use *internal* digital conversion or DSP....Neumann KH120A, ATC SCM25a, and my own DIY 10" midbass + 5" concentric MF/HF 3-way design using BMS & Ciare drivers.
And I'm currently working on trying to acquire another passive design floorstander in the Børresen Acoustics 03 after hearing them in a relative's high-end home system, but will probably need to sell BOTH kidneys AND my heart to acquire them, LOL. So not really much of a chance, unfortunately. :-P
However, I do use a miniDSP with DIRAC Live correction on two of my setups, and ALL aspects of the respective sound were improved and more lifelike in presentation with this addition, with no detrimental artifacts. And I can easily reference this through my own live instruments and my recordings of them in my own space.
Again, I'm not saying that ALL speakers that use Digital Conversion or DSP will *always* be equal or better compared to a simpler and equivalent passive design. Only that the DSP or digital conversion itself is *most likely* not the true reason for a particular speaker's perceived shortcomings or negatively perceived sonic character.
Regarding Steve Guttenberg and his apparent dislike for active speakers that use digital conversion or DSP, it seems that he has no issues with owning and listening to thousands of CDs that all require a laser pickup and Digital to Analog Conversion, or any number of standalone outboard DACs? IMO, that is a bit hypocritical, as a DAC is essentially a "Digital Signal Processor".
And it's fairly obvious that Steve is "old school" and does not fully understand the true technical aspects of digital signal processing, electronic circuits, or complex acoustics as they apply to individual transducers and combining multiple transducers into a loudspeaker system, with the complex mathematical interactions and effects of particular crossover filter networks on the combined response, etc.
I'm not suggesting that I am any sort of expert here, either. But with the help of AES, and researchers like Shannon & Nyquist, Floyd Toole, Earl Geddes, Sigfried Linkwitz, Klippel, Sean Olive, and our own Erin Hardison, my understanding has grown leaps and bounds.
We often tend to dismiss, minimize, or create "other reasons and excuses" for the things we simply do not understand or cannot fully explain.
Ancient civilizations all had many "God" myths and "fairytales" about earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and "heavenly" phenomenon such as lunar & solar eclipses, comets & meteorites, etc, because they did not understand the science and physics behind them.
Today when these events happen, we (hopefully) don't attribute them to an angry god, gods, or mystical being(s)! We have studied, learned, and now understand at least some of the science and physics behind these events. In terms of the science and physics of electronics & acoustics, it's apparent that Steve's understanding has not quite kept up with the times.
In addition, Steve is heavily influenced by NOSTALGIA (though most of us are as well...so, IOW, Confirmation Bias).
AND Steve G. is using ~70 year old ears at this point with significantly diminished hearing loss and anomalies that are simply unavoidable.
And he conducts most of his listening evaluations and reviews in a Noisy Brooklyn Apartment with many distractions. Please consider the following from *Audiology Org's* "Age-Related Hearing Loss" article pertaining to 70 y.o. & older:
"Age-related hearing loss features not only an increased difficulty hearing in the presence of background noise, but also a worsened hearing threshold. This means you have trouble hearing soft sounds EVEN when there is no other sound around you, such as a whisper or insect buzzing. [This means that Dynamics are out the window]
Your ability to hear high-pitched noises is affected the most, so you probably have difficulty hearing children, some women, and people with certain accents. Typically, you can hear low-pitched noises at a relatively normal level for many more years, BUT you may take longer to understand them.
Other symptoms of age-related hearing loss include an impaired ability to Process Sound Waves. You may hear a sound, but it takes longer for you to understand what it is. Localization is impaired too, which is the ability to know where a sound is coming from."
ALL of these impairments will obviously affect your acute ability to effectively evaluate ANY loudspeaker or headphones!
One last point. Nearly all music that is recorded and produced these days is done completely or in a large part "In The Box" using a PC, a multi-channel recording interface with internal ADCs & DACs, and *thousands* of DSP-based computer "plug-ins" that have replaced all of the old school analog outboard rackmount gear.
And 95% of the "Hi-Res" releases and remasters/transfers of older, classic analog recordings are created using this same DSP-based "In The Box" process. So whether or not the music you listen to is recent or classic, Nearly all of it has been "digitised" in some way or another.
And as I stated previously, even many of the best ANALOG Vinyl mastering engineers are using Digital equipment and DSP in the production and creation of analog vinyl albums. So listening to purely non-digital music will become more and more impossible.
How is this different from its use in a loudspeaker? Digital conversion is already in the signal even before it is ouput to your speakers. It's a matter of understanding and properly & effectively using AD/DA conversion and DSP. They are simply TOOLS that can be used properly, or not, resulting in the experience of emotionally moving music, or a completely unpleasant listening experience.
At least you know where your preferences are and can purchase accordingly. :) But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any loudspeaker based solely on it using digital conversion or DSP.
Happy listening.
Thank you
Can I connect my computer to 4305P through USB?
You should. This set of JBLs being Pro-Audio spkrs, should talk w/o any problems to PC via USB or other digital connection.
Yep. It has USB input.
Bro! You printed out your notes. Is that Big Time I hear playing in the background?
I be printin notes like I be printin' that paper! No, literally. :D
@@ErinsAudioCorner 😃😃😃
Good review👍🏽 would like to see if you can get a pair of Swan 300 powered bookies and hear your opinion.
This looks like it measures better than the M2
In some ways it does. But it obviously doesn’t have the output capability of the M2.
Great review as usual
Disappointed that this doesn’t get that loud
Is there a Passive version?
The 4309 would be the closest thing to it, but not quite the same.
www.audioadvice.com/jbl-synthesis-4309-6-5-inch-bookshelf-speakers-pair+color-Walnut?gclid=Cj0KCQjwspKUBhCvARIsAB2IYutZsZrWum-KM_6PNmv7p-KlOYFrKxYUw6YyLBNFPyhkkE0xl1jqdXgaAgsyEALw_wcB
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks Erin.. I’lll check it out.
Great review. Ok, you know that now you have to make a video about high-res, right?
Never knew that the word "fascia" was pronounced the way that you pronounced it so I looked it up and it seems as though that you say it correctly. I somehow must have adopted the UK pronunciation even though I've lived in the US since birth. Learn something new everyday.
Heck, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Would love to see you do a video on ''Hi-Res'' music. I often struggle to notice any improvement on regular CD /FLAC quality.
I would love to see a complete test of the JBL Control One.
Awe, what a chunky baby.
That price is so high though. At this level you can start looking at professional powered PA speakers.
I stopped listening at $2,200.00.Price is too GAT DARM high!
This goes to show how incredibly good the Arendal 1961 Bookshelf and Kali LP-6 2nd Wave are.
I could re tube and replace all four of the speakers in my Fender Super reverb for less than what these speakers coast. Why are audio speakers so much more expensive than instrument speakers.
I love JBL, but there is no way I'd pay $2,200 for those speakers.
I don't know about the price, seems a little high for what the speakers are. Honestly, I wouldn't buy them for that price.
To mucho buckaroonos.
o good i dont need to spend 2200
It’s cost jbl maybe $150 per box for them to produce, you just pay for their name and logo
Im not a fan of the jbl harman sound at all, to me theyre all midbass
With the overly long intro, I no longer have the desire to finish the video. I'm new here. Sorry.
But you took the time to reply, so that helps.
These seem pretty decent. But there is no way in hell that they are worth $2200. I'm thinking maybe $300 - $400, but $2200? Someone is smoking crack...
Like music only no listen. No systems my house. Big man helps sumal people.
Seems like a well engineered speaker. However I can't help but be somewhat underwhelmed after the pre-lauch hype this thing got.
This is a very complete package and may therefor be interesting for home entertainment, but apart from that it really doesn't do anything special considering price and size.
Comment
Nice!
o
@ErinsAudioCorner for the same amount of money, what would you choose purely based on sound, these or LS50 Wireless II? Thank you!
Props to JBL, but $2200? No way! There are much better speakers out there for that kind of money.
You need to take into consideration that this speaker is your system....1 -100 watt Amp per woofer, 1-25 watt per tweeter for total of 250 watts of power and a built in high res dac....all you need is a streamer like the wiim mini and your listening to music....if you go the route of a passive system, you need to buy integrated Amp. Speakers and a dac....to beat the 4305p your going to spend at least $2200.
Wrong. Do your homework before you waste people's time.
$2200 for tiny inefficient plastic speakers made in China?🤡🤡🤡
Vs Klipsch Sevens?