SOURCES docs.google.com/document/d/1XOGUD-mzhp_67o88Y5NieezXn2RtDXJ5R5qfGLy9FZE/edit?usp=sharing Batman/Superman World's Finest Batman The Animated Series Superman The Animated Series Lupin Fuma Conspiracy Tiny Toons Rick & Morty Anime Castle of Cagliostro Castle of the Sky Princess Mononoke Only Yesterday Neon Genesis Evangelion Kiki's Delivery Service Howls Moving Castle Nausicaa Ponyo Card Capturer Sakura Spriggan
Loved the video. Have you ever considered doing a video on Tomino, the creator of Gundam? He has a really interesting history. He was a communist when he created Gundam and his exploration of anti war themes are really interesting.
I love it when you point out specific bits of animation like you did with the Mononoke arm sever or Bruce on the crumbling ledge. It moves so quickly while you’re watching & it’s great to have a good eye point them out
I'd say telecom is much better at it, but for a long time American cartoons have been animated in asia, a larger portion today still rely on South Korea
@@Pajarocaro it's never been a case of who animated what as much as one about production and pipeline to me or then there basically is no American animation anymore haha
@@Pajarocaro It's not that complicated. If the creative development of your product was penned by Japanese for Japanese, it's anime regardless if, say, the Japanese outsourced the actual grueling labor of animating something to, say, Americans or, far more likely as a lot of classic anime was, to the South Koreans. If the creative development of your product was penned by Americans for Americans, it's western animation or a cartoon or what have you. So, Nick's Avatar series was, is, and will always be a cartoon despite any 'anime-esque' aesthetic or far east inspired narrative or visual gimmick.
@@Stevem While true, you also forget that with that line of logic many classic 'animes' wouldn't be anime either because the Japanese are also big time outsourcers to the South Koreans when it comes to actually animating things. More so in the past like for those classic 'animes,' but still, that's a way of thinking that DOES cut the Japanese too if not as much.
As I've said and will reiterate, the difference between what makes something anime or western is 1) Who has creative control. IE, are the people making all the creative decisions and saying what goes where and how it should be done Japanese or Western. 2) Who is the primary intended audience of the work. IE, are the primary consumers intended to be Japanese or Western with other audiences, if there are such things, being an after thought.
Ya beat us to this topic! Very cool though. Found out about this before the tweets started going viral, but it's still SO cool to know Ghibli worked on the DCAU.
Love a video like this. I'm fascinated by the japanese-animated episodes of Superman & Batman, it feels like the animators have a zeal in showing off with these "simpler" designs. (They also usually have way more good faraway shots of smaller figures), the cape-work, the explosions, its delicious!
Let's gooooo This is perfect timing actually, as I just started the animated series. It truly does feel like the animation world is one giant interconnected web where everyone either knows each other, or is influenced by one another. It's beautiful. Just like this video. A new upload is always a special event. Congrats
Not particularly beautiful, considering it's built on the expansive US empire that already got into that position by haranguing Japan since 1800's, and it's by US example how "opening up to the west" turned out looking like, even up to pre-WW2 petrol embargo like any state USA wishes to replace with a puppet leader. Forbidding companies to sell energy is the face of US capitalism. Did you know Hirohito lived until 1989? Quite the accuracy, sniping him in 1945 and to this day claiming the overall effect was "minimizing casualties". And it's on that foundation where companies like Rankin-Bass and TopCraft from Japan, which since evolved into Ghibli, have been ALLOWED into the insular US market where magnetizing for bombs is less of a risk, as long as your economy functions to enrich USA. Same with Nanking, THEY don't have to worry about the largest aresenal in the world or made up Iraqi nukes hitting "their" workplaces. Because the fruit of those workplaces GOES to the owner of the guns, animation included. That's also the face of US capitalism, though getting stuff for owning a gun has other names as well. It's "connected" as long as you ignore and ostracize the parts you ahven't YET connected into, like Philippines is in the process of. Every place where USA can force labor that wouldn't be LEGAL under US' own labor laws, in their ivory towers. And they know the value of work into propaganda, at least ever since they allied with Russia to break a valid peace treaty and invade Japan, to end that WW2 overnight while Americans were busy pressing buttons. Big, red buttons to convince the Russians it's the better deal to join the gang than to oppose it, which they have beens starting to forget lately.
I just watched the Clay Face episodes, and the scene where he has his meltdown and frantically switches between his roles? Absolutely crazy. Remembered your video and had to come back to comment, thanks for talking about this!
Thanks for putting all this info together. I’ve always loved TMS’ work on Batman, and had wondered why Growing Pains looked so different to their earlier work. I had guessed it was because the episode wasn’t directed by one of the Warner Bros. directors, which I suppose is kinda true, but thanks to you I now know the full story! It was a good call showing some of AKOM’s work on BTAS, because that really highlights how spectacular TMS’ work was.
yeah i think someone on the crew once said AKOM was like the kiss of death, and it shows because when your other studios are Sunrise, Telecom, Studio Junio, Spectrum animation etc then yeah hard to compete
@@Stevem Oh yeah, that’d be director Frank Paur, who had the misfortune of having most of his episodes assigned to AKOM! I know that their contract was prematurely terminated because of their shoddy work, but it’s a shame that they got to work on so many episodes. If only Feat of Clay part 1 had been given to a better studio!
Around the time of STAS/TNBA, TMS would also be used as a preproduction house. So episodes would be storyboarded, Layed out, Directed, and animated by TMS staff
yeah it's pretty well thought of a lot of high profile talent came from it, in the interview david said to me that in months at ghibli he learned more than what took years at gobelins
Great job finding all these connections through research for these episodes, it's always really interesting to get a peek behind the curtain and hear about what happened which results in special collaborations like these. There's so much history behind the animations that we adore that doesn't get told and it's really cool that you're putting in the effort to uncover these interesting stories!
yeah like every animators cut is invisible until it's confirmed by a staff member we may have the credits but those are rarely complete, especially here!
Fascinating. I would love a video about the rise of outsourcing animation in general. Obviously, back in the day, Disney/Warner/Fleisher/etc. did everything in-house, and at a certain point it made more economic sense to ship a lot of the work overseas, even though it means losing a degree of control. I'm very interested in how this came about, as I've yet to get an answer other than "it's cheaper."
To go against union power too, but Tom & Jerry as early as the 60s-70s was outsourced to Hungary I'm pretty sure. I'm sure someone has written a book on it somewhere. Likely also with the rise of cheaper produced cartoons for toy commercial purposes that were a result of deregulation in the 80s.
@@Shiftarus But in a time before easy digital communication, or even fax machines, the time and expense it would have taken to communicate between teams, to ship materials back and forth, to send supervisors back and forth, would have been immense. Not to mention you're much more likely to miss deadlines because you need retakes if you can't directly manage the work (I'm sure there's probably some sort of insurance policy built into the contracts that retakes have to be paid for by the foreign animation company, but that doesn't really help the big domestic corporate owner who was already selling advertising time based on a new episode of X show to be aired on Y night). Even without all the other considerations, I wonder what the pay disparity between an American animator and a foreign animator is? Obviously, there are big cost of living differences between the US and the Philippines, but several animation companies are based in Canada. I've been to Canada, it's not THAT much cheaper than here. Is it really worth the lack of direct control? Why did we go from everything being done by a handful of guys on the studio lot, to a whole other company thousands of miles away?
@@ethansloan outsourcing has a lot of reasons for sure one of the major ones is cost "American animators can cost about $125 an hour; in India, they cost $25 an hour. " in relation to american studios moving work to Asia www.rediff.com/money/2005/mar/16spec1.htm
Holy hell, I have no idea how your channel flew under my radar for that long ! That was quite the fantastic detective breakdown of each shots ! Also, I'm actually an old friend of David Encinas, and yeah, he always have some truly out of this world stories about his very unique career worldwide, but most specifically about his short stint at Ghibli. He's a super chill dude, on top of being super talented ! Glad you got to chat with him.
Love this video! It has me looking at World's Finest with a new outlook (I always knew that the special was always particularly smooth and it had some awesome flourishes that really stood out, but it's awesome to realize that it was Ghibli providing those flourishes this whole time)! ^^ Also, this could mean that Mark Hammil technically voiced for three Ghibli animated movies (the other two being Castle in the Sky and the new Boy and the Heron movie).
Well, i’ll be! ”The World’s Finest” was one of my favourites as a kid. (Well, still is…) Had it on VHS. I knew that Tomonaga-san worked on this (very prominently!), but had no idea that Ghibli was involved. Seeing clips for the first time in a while, I remember how I loved some of the cuts and mecha-animation on this. The animation and art is just way too good! This was way too good!
@@StudyofSwords yeah as sword says they're horny on main, in an interview they said something like "we couldn't help putting both of them in a cat fight."
Fantastic research, wonderfully insightful and best of all enriches an entire franchise for me. I want to go back and watch all this stuff again. Kudos on a phenomenal knowledge base.
Awesome video , it shows how much animation is a passion for the sake of animation even when its just for projects there assisting with how much work and quality they will put in to up hold there name and companies name ! Theres very few mediums that I think have a purity to them and anime is one of them because you can just tell , you cant phone it in and one one will notice
Awesome video. I never knew Ghibli and TMS did much animation for the western market. This reminded me how awesome those early Batman the animated series episodes really were.
This specific movie was my absolute favorite Batman animated movie as a kid (still is, honestly) and I had no idea Ghibli had a hand on animating it. I got into Ghibli movies not so long ago to get a fresh taste of nostalgia in 2d animation. Nice connection!
Lol yeah you could call it episode of hyperfocus, I started this as a distraction and it kept eating my time up as I went through all these telecom ep one by one to figure which ghibli worked on.it said in the production diary they worked on some but when I googled it it wasn't there so I fell down a very deep rabbit hole felt I wasted so much time that I needed to turn it into something posted it on Twitter and then it blew up
I love this channel, thank you for the interesting lore mate. Also Tokyo Movie Shinsha huge studio, extremely underappreciated though. They've made a lot of great stuff.
Yeah there's about 8 different studios inside them that work on different projects, Telecom for international projects (and lupin sometimes) a studio for Detective Conan The studio which handled Megalo box and the new creed tie in Marza Planet (studio behind sonics cutscenes and the cgi lupin movie) Tokyo Movie , which is like a core team among others i dont recall of the top of my head but deferring and outsourcing has kinda always been their thing.
It absolutely warms my heart to know that studio Ghibli did the animation for the TNBA episode “Growing Pains”. Even though TMS is credited for it, so amazing to find out something totally different. Thank you so much for sharing that ❤👍💕🎉.
Harley Quinn doing the Ghibli hair thing with her jester cap should have become a character standard. This whole video was a delight and the credit given to unseen and under appreciated animators is awesome to see.
TMS was a big part of anime coming over to the states in the 90's and ghibli was part of their group. IIRC part of their marketing into the US was to make more money in order to drum up more money to be able to afford ghibli studio work. anime budgets in the 90's were crazy!
I don't really think it went that way, like ghibli didn't give much thought to oversea territories until the Disney deal they didn't have the time, anime budgets in the 90s were for the most part very small, and there's a definite gap between the outsource work like here for telecom and tms and standard tv anime work
It's wild to realize I've been a ghibli fan longer than I thought. The clay face episodes were always my favorite. Card captors is my #1 magical girl anime.
Holly cow....now I know why I love the animation of these episodes SO MUCH, effing legendary Ghibli studio did these....no wonder the animation is so smooth and amazing in these, I have watch the World Finest episodes so much and Growing Pains is also an Episode I remember repeating a lot....damn such a cool bit of trivia to know.
This video made me so happy. I thought I was going to see a Gibli style BTman Homage and what I got was an awesome love letter to my childhood. ❤ well done!
Some one-off characters throughout both BTAS and TNBA look like they came out of Lupin due to being made by TMS. One noteworthy case is in the Calendar Girl episode, where one of the CEOs taken hostage (the car company one specifically) has facial features and movement that really make him stand out against the other characters present in the episode. There's also a real blink-and-you-miss-it moment in... Robin's Reckoning pt1, I think? Bruce goes out to interrogate various goons for intelligence on who killed Dick's parents, and in one quick shot one of these guys moves in a panicked fashion that looks _exactly_ like something out of a Lupin III episode.
it has nothing to do with that, it's the difference between how telecom and ghibli handle it. You can clearly see a difference from ep 1 to ep 2. I don't really think the design has changed that much neither in comparison to the Joker at least.
@@Stevem man, I don’t have Twitter, so I just saw the original tweet and had no further context. And I don’t think I saw the claim on Twitter, but instead on discord or in a RUclips short or something. Regardless, your video was very much enjoyed by me. Thank you.
I was intrigued by this but didn’t think it would my attention. I have to say though, this was fascinating and brilliantly researched and presented. Great stuff 👏a great shout too to all the invisible work that goes on in the production of these amazing animations
OMG OMG OMG! I have seen this and watch this video with Wayans Smoke and Black Peter Griffin on RUclips and it was awesome! I love Studio Ghibli, Superman, Batman, Batman cartoon, Superman cartoon, Studio Ghibli movies, that David guy and the video essay! I also love the words that were put into sentences! ⭐⭐⭐⭐
if y'all aren't familiar with the french animation school Gobelins their youtube channel has a bunch of students' final projects on it, there's hours of fantastic creative animated shorts i can't recommend enough
Thank you so much for this! I don't know why your Twitter thread got so much flack. I've seen so much praise for TMS's work on Tiny Toons and Aninmaniacs and such and I love catching the subtle Japanese stylistic touches that happen in their episodes. More work should be done highlighting outsourcing and subcontracting work online. There's also a great video trying to pin down who animated the iconic Clayface scene you mentioned ruclips.net/video/cj91CZqMF0k/видео.html
Also another issue is likely half the staff is completely uncredited so basically you'd have to ask around older telecom staff if they remember EDIT it might be an all uncredited situation too.
@@Stevem Its delta-shape means it isn't, strictly speaking a blimp - because the lifting body also develops lift, it's an "aereon". I happen to love aereons. I think it's a damn shame that there are currently no production-model aereons, nor cyclocranes.
THANK YOU. This is the sorta info that I like to have when describing why anime is amazing to the uninitiated. being able to say, remember that amazing sh** from BTAS? you love? yeah that was made in Japan haha
As I've said and will reiterate, the difference between what makes something anime or western is 1) Who has creative control. IE, are the people making all the creative decisions and saying what goes where and how it should be done Japanese or Western. 2) Who is the primary intended audience of the work. IE, are the primary consumers intended to be Japanese or Western with other audiences, if there are such things, being an after thought.
id recommend reading the book anime identity, because neither of the things you have stated are actually true, many such time anime is shown abroad or via streaming faster than it will be broadcast in Japan and there are many people in the industry who are not Japanese, especially since twitter has became so popular for recruiting, but even the directors arent all Japanese these days, Michael Arese directed an anime movie first back in 2006.
yes we did. and did you know the studio that animated Spawn the Animated Series would be known as Mad House Studios. now we know why the capes are so fluid
So animation companies cooperate with each other? Shocking! But yeah, knowing its people we know for completely different things, it is funny seeing them in something like Batman. Nice work putting all the pieces together, you really know the industry!
I remember when it was very controversial because in reality ghibli didn't really animate it they only edited it and made a coompliation of the original episodes for the movie that's why you could see the theme songs in the movie it was originally not supposed to be and supposed to have extra scenes but they messed it up and didn't do it and still got credit for it if they animated it and the studios which animated 80% of Princess Momonoke most of them didn't got credit for it,but Paul Dino calmed them down and let it be bygone in exchange for collaborating with Batman Beyond movie and Batman Gotham Knight with other studios which again those studios always wanted to animate The Batman and many studios also wanted to animate Batman Beyond movie too sao Paul Dino let them animated kids and censored version of Batman Beyond movie while he worked on others on the original uncut version as for the other anime studios more of an opportunity for them as they always wanted to doi it also still get money and credit for it!
I would love to see a 2D animated Superman movie inspired by the old Fleischer Studios cartoons that was a big inspiration for Miyazaki. Still that now Ghibli have a Contract with Lucasfilm for some Star Wars shorts so i wouldn't be suprised about a MCU TV series/special animated by the studios for will come off sometime
lmao yeah I looked up the same scans before and was able to get the gist of what they were saying but there were one or two books that hadn't been scanlated. Great job on the video still
TMS was the company behind CyberSix, a cartoon based on the argentinian comic of the same name. I think it was a first for an argentinian property. As an argentinian it makes me proud. 🇦🇷⭐⭐⭐
Many Japanese and Korean studios worked in the Batman the Animated series and it's specials. In fact no single episode of these series (and it's movies and specials) was made in the US, they were only written there.
I've heard some speculation that Beware The Grey Ghost from the original run of Batman was mostly done by a studio named DUST instead of the credited Spectrum. You have any info om this?
Amazing, finally. I have heard a lot of details on which studio animated what episodes, how the behind the scenes where, when WB actually finished up the animation or sent it back. But this is even more detail. I would have never thought they could afford sending the workload to other studios but to make work to faster they needed to be more without being staff at the company so I can see how it is like every animation studio had contact with eachother and during hard press spread the work. Now admirable that may be I do think this cast a shadow on how Western and even the Japanese animation buisness overwork thier staff immensley. I mean this is ridicules the deadlines and eveything they want in. And also with people us I include me thought maybe at one point. "Wow why can´t Japan animate thier anime like Western cartoon." And then find out they did those western cartoons all the time. Sure I know some Disney shows in the 90´s was either animated by one of thier houses in France and Australia. But I guess most of Ducktales was Korean studios. But I would like to find out. A lot of animation during the 90´s I think are peak television animation. But I like to find out what was the most important part. Ofcourse direction is one, how much did the American animation do to help the outsourced studios to replicate thier style and how they work in the details and fluidity of the character movments. I just found this video so I don´t know how much or what you will cover. I hope you or someone might dig in how the animation in Spider-Man TAS was done. They were pretty close to Batman TAS but they had other work etic and involvment. I mean it was´t by design they said "Let´s reuse this shot." What I heard there were becuse of a lot of errors so to fix that they did this akward reused animation but they did´t seem to fix any missing animation if needed like WB did for Batman. So I am intrested in finding that out. It would be amazing if there were this unfinished frames that was just stashed somewhere able to be used to finish and complete the animation.
Disney's 90s afternoon had telecom involved also and telecom also worked on spiderman early on. American deadlines tend to go longer than anime deadlines this is also pre digital for warner so when that happens the deadline can be closer to the release date etc. I don't tend to talk about American cartoons this is kinda a random off cut from a bigger video I'm making
SOURCES
docs.google.com/document/d/1XOGUD-mzhp_67o88Y5NieezXn2RtDXJ5R5qfGLy9FZE/edit?usp=sharing
Batman/Superman World's Finest
Batman The Animated Series
Superman The Animated Series
Lupin Fuma Conspiracy
Tiny Toons
Rick & Morty Anime
Castle of Cagliostro
Castle of the Sky
Princess Mononoke
Only Yesterday
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Kiki's Delivery Service
Howls Moving Castle
Nausicaa
Ponyo
Card Capturer Sakura
Spriggan
can you cover Feat of Clay part 2?
Loved the video. Have you ever considered doing a video on Tomino, the creator of Gundam? He has a really interesting history. He was a communist when he created Gundam and his exploration of anti war themes are really interesting.
@@coldercoronet6248 i dont believe he was ever a communist though he did have run ins with the new left in the 70s, maybe one day who knows
When I met Yasuo Ohtsuka in june 99 he told me he was working on the Batman Beyond Movie "Return of The Joker".
Oh that's cool! Otsuka is one of the greats that doesn't surprise me he must have done it through Telecom
Talk to you I got stayed through the art style that they came out with and I'm still married. Damned Wars drawings of Todd Mark Begley
Me too..told me as well
I love it when you point out specific bits of animation like you did with the Mononoke arm sever or Bruce on the crumbling ledge. It moves so quickly while you’re watching & it’s great to have a good eye point them out
Glad you found it helpful
For a Japanese studio I've got to say that they nailed the western style of animation
I'd say telecom is much better at it, but for a long time American cartoons have been animated in asia, a larger portion today still rely on South Korea
@@Stevem Now that I think about it, it kind of makes the "what anime is and isn´t " question much more complicated
@@Pajarocaro it's never been a case of who animated what as much as one about production and pipeline to me or then there basically is no American animation anymore haha
@@Pajarocaro
It's not that complicated. If the creative development of your product was penned by Japanese for Japanese, it's anime regardless if, say, the Japanese outsourced the actual grueling labor of animating something to, say, Americans or, far more likely as a lot of classic anime was, to the South Koreans. If the creative development of your product was penned by Americans for Americans, it's western animation or a cartoon or what have you. So, Nick's Avatar series was, is, and will always be a cartoon despite any 'anime-esque' aesthetic or far east inspired narrative or visual gimmick.
@@Stevem
While true, you also forget that with that line of logic many classic 'animes' wouldn't be anime either because the Japanese are also big time outsourcers to the South Koreans when it comes to actually animating things. More so in the past like for those classic 'animes,' but still, that's a way of thinking that DOES cut the Japanese too if not as much.
This channel is so helpful in being a gateway into understanding japanese animation, at least it is for me. I endlessly appreciate this stuff
Glad you find it so useful,,!!
As I've said and will reiterate, the difference between what makes something anime or western is 1) Who has creative control. IE, are the people making all the creative decisions and saying what goes where and how it should be done Japanese or Western. 2) Who is the primary intended audience of the work. IE, are the primary consumers intended to be Japanese or Western with other audiences, if there are such things, being an after thought.
Ya beat us to this topic! Very cool though. Found out about this before the tweets started going viral, but it's still SO cool to know Ghibli worked on the DCAU.
My full source list is In the pinned comment if you need it, message me if you need any help
Love a video like this. I'm fascinated by the japanese-animated episodes of Superman & Batman, it feels like the animators have a zeal in showing off with these "simpler" designs.
(They also usually have way more good faraway shots of smaller figures), the cape-work, the explosions, its delicious!
Growing Pains is renowned as one of the best episodes of BTAS, so knowing ghibli worked on it just adds to its reputation
it's a good ep
The off model and quirky animation is exactly the episodes I lived in the DCAU
yeah it's cool
Let's gooooo
This is perfect timing actually, as I just started the animated series. It truly does feel like the animation world is one giant interconnected web where everyone either knows each other, or is influenced by one another. It's beautiful.
Just like this video. A new upload is always a special event. Congrats
Yeah there's a lot of really good studios on batman, junio, telecom , sunrise and spectrum
Not particularly beautiful, considering it's built on the expansive US empire that already got into that position by haranguing Japan since 1800's, and it's by US example how "opening up to the west" turned out looking like, even up to pre-WW2 petrol embargo like any state USA wishes to replace with a puppet leader. Forbidding companies to sell energy is the face of US capitalism. Did you know Hirohito lived until 1989? Quite the accuracy, sniping him in 1945 and to this day claiming the overall effect was "minimizing casualties".
And it's on that foundation where companies like Rankin-Bass and TopCraft from Japan, which since evolved into Ghibli, have been ALLOWED into the insular US market where magnetizing for bombs is less of a risk, as long as your economy functions to enrich USA. Same with Nanking, THEY don't have to worry about the largest aresenal in the world or made up Iraqi nukes hitting "their" workplaces. Because the fruit of those workplaces GOES to the owner of the guns, animation included. That's also the face of US capitalism, though getting stuff for owning a gun has other names as well. It's "connected" as long as you ignore and ostracize the parts you ahven't YET connected into, like Philippines is in the process of.
Every place where USA can force labor that wouldn't be LEGAL under US' own labor laws, in their ivory towers. And they know the value of work into propaganda, at least ever since they allied with Russia to break a valid peace treaty and invade Japan, to end that WW2 overnight while Americans were busy pressing buttons. Big, red buttons to convince the Russians it's the better deal to join the gang than to oppose it, which they have beens starting to forget lately.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 lol bro who asked, yeah us hierarchy is bad we all know lol
And topcraft didn't become ghibli that's revisionists bollocks
I just watched the Clay Face episodes, and the scene where he has his meltdown and frantically switches between his roles? Absolutely crazy. Remembered your video and had to come back to comment, thanks for talking about this!
no worries telecom killed that sequence
Thanks for putting all this info together. I’ve always loved TMS’ work on Batman, and had wondered why Growing Pains looked so different to their earlier work. I had guessed it was because the episode wasn’t directed by one of the Warner Bros. directors, which I suppose is kinda true, but thanks to you I now know the full story!
It was a good call showing some of AKOM’s work on BTAS, because that really highlights how spectacular TMS’ work was.
yeah i think someone on the crew once said AKOM was like the kiss of death, and it shows because when your other studios are Sunrise, Telecom, Studio Junio, Spectrum animation etc then yeah hard to compete
@@Stevem Oh yeah, that’d be director Frank Paur, who had the misfortune of having most of his episodes assigned to AKOM! I know that their contract was prematurely terminated because of their shoddy work, but it’s a shame that they got to work on so many episodes. If only Feat of Clay part 1 had been given to a better studio!
Around the time of STAS/TNBA, TMS would also be used as a preproduction house. So episodes would be storyboarded, Layed out, Directed, and animated by TMS staff
Such an awesome story and video! Loved this! My mind was really blown when you said some Ghibli staff worked on an episode of Cardcaptor Sakura.
Yeah we don't know exact numbers but must be a fair few to get a studio credit in the book
For context, Les Gobelins is basically consider the #1 art school in France for a lot of field, including animation.
yeah it's pretty well thought of a lot of high profile talent came from it, in the interview david said to me that in months at ghibli he learned more than what took years at gobelins
Stevem with the Behind the scenes of behind the scenes. Nice~
niceeee
Great job finding all these connections through research for these episodes, it's always really interesting to get a peek behind the curtain and hear about what happened which results in special collaborations like these.
There's so much history behind the animations that we adore that doesn't get told and it's really cool that you're putting in the effort to uncover these interesting stories!
yeah like every animators cut is invisible until it's confirmed by a staff member we may have the credits but those are rarely complete, especially here!
14:23
Well, I’d like to see the robots. But you had to put yourself in the way, hahaa!
then watch the episodes lol
only about 8 minutes in. this video is eaily one of your best. Fantastic work mate.
haha it's more of a side project but the thread blew up to much for me not to make into a video but it was fun to make!
Fascinating. I would love a video about the rise of outsourcing animation in general. Obviously, back in the day, Disney/Warner/Fleisher/etc. did everything in-house, and at a certain point it made more economic sense to ship a lot of the work overseas, even though it means losing a degree of control. I'm very interested in how this came about, as I've yet to get an answer other than "it's cheaper."
To go against union power too, but Tom & Jerry as early as the 60s-70s was outsourced to Hungary I'm pretty sure. I'm sure someone has written a book on it somewhere. Likely also with the rise of cheaper produced cartoons for toy commercial purposes that were a result of deregulation in the 80s.
@@StevemYeah, those are the ones directed by Gene Deitch in Czechoslovakia.
What reason besides money does a corporation do anything?
@@Shiftarus But in a time before easy digital communication, or even fax machines, the time and expense it would have taken to communicate between teams, to ship materials back and forth, to send supervisors back and forth, would have been immense. Not to mention you're much more likely to miss deadlines because you need retakes if you can't directly manage the work (I'm sure there's probably some sort of insurance policy built into the contracts that retakes have to be paid for by the foreign animation company, but that doesn't really help the big domestic corporate owner who was already selling advertising time based on a new episode of X show to be aired on Y night). Even without all the other considerations, I wonder what the pay disparity between an American animator and a foreign animator is? Obviously, there are big cost of living differences between the US and the Philippines, but several animation companies are based in Canada. I've been to Canada, it's not THAT much cheaper than here. Is it really worth the lack of direct control? Why did we go from everything being done by a handful of guys on the studio lot, to a whole other company thousands of miles away?
@@ethansloan outsourcing has a lot of reasons for sure one of the major ones is cost "American animators can cost about $125 an hour; in India, they cost $25 an hour. " in relation to american studios moving work to Asia
www.rediff.com/money/2005/mar/16spec1.htm
Holy hell, I have no idea how your channel flew under my radar for that long !
That was quite the fantastic detective breakdown of each shots !
Also, I'm actually an old friend of David Encinas, and yeah, he always have some truly out of this world stories about his very unique career worldwide, but most specifically about his short stint at Ghibli.
He's a super chill dude, on top of being super talented !
Glad you got to chat with him.
Yeah he was really nice to answer all my questions!
I know he's been busy so i appreciate it
Love this video! It has me looking at World's Finest with a new outlook (I always knew that the special was always particularly smooth and it had some awesome flourishes that really stood out, but it's awesome to realize that it was Ghibli providing those flourishes this whole time)! ^^
Also, this could mean that Mark Hammil technically voiced for three Ghibli animated movies (the other two being Castle in the Sky and the new Boy and the Heron movie).
he has a small role in nausicaa as well if i recall
Well, i’ll be!
”The World’s Finest” was one of my favourites as a kid. (Well, still is…) Had it on VHS. I knew that Tomonaga-san worked on this (very prominently!), but had no idea that Ghibli was involved. Seeing clips for the first time in a while, I remember how I loved some of the cuts and mecha-animation on this. The animation and art is just way too good! This was way too good!
its a great special, and yeah tomonaga did some animation about but also a ton of the boards
LMAO Joker's worst enemy hiccups. I swear I'm going to write this in as a Canon detail for my own Batman Universe😊
suddenly the giant flying wing makes sense in world's finest.
Very much so
"If you know, you know"
Please to inform, good sirs
Paul Dini and Bruce Timm are downbad for 2D Pinups
@@StudyofSwords yeah as sword says they're horny on main, in an interview they said something like "we couldn't help putting both of them in a cat fight."
Thanks, all
The lack of sound effects and whacky transitions in your editing is surprisingly jarring and refreshing at the same time. I like it.
This was a smaller style video but I dont tend to use that kind of editing anyway
Fantastic research, wonderfully insightful and best of all enriches an entire franchise for me. I want to go back and watch all this stuff again. Kudos on a phenomenal knowledge base.
thank you!
Also could tell in the drapery and cloth physics it all kinda feels a bit above and beyond : D
Awesome video , it shows how much animation is a passion for the sake of animation even when its just for projects there assisting with how much work and quality they will put in to up hold there name and companies name ! Theres very few mediums that I think have a purity to them and anime is one of them because you can just tell , you cant phone it in and one one will notice
it's still their contract hours like yeah telecom worked their asses off to help finish Mononoke it's only fair they do they same for them hahah
Awesome video. I never knew Ghibli and TMS did much animation for the western market. This reminded me how awesome those early Batman the animated series episodes really were.
Ghibli not so much, it's pretty rare for them telecom though yeah tons
Duuuuuuuuuuude!!!! I never new this! You are making content a didn't know I wanted! Thanx
No probs
This specific movie was my absolute favorite Batman animated movie as a kid (still is, honestly) and I had no idea Ghibli had a hand on animating it. I got into Ghibli movies not so long ago to get a fresh taste of nostalgia in 2d animation. Nice connection!
It always amazes me how much you look for the connections to almost anything. Great video as always!
Lol yeah you could call it episode of hyperfocus, I started this as a distraction and it kept eating my time up as I went through all these telecom ep one by one to figure which ghibli worked on.it said in the production diary they worked on some but when I googled it it wasn't there so I fell down a very deep rabbit hole felt I wasted so much time that I needed to turn it into something posted it on Twitter and then it blew up
I love this channel, thank you for the interesting lore mate. Also Tokyo Movie Shinsha huge studio, extremely underappreciated though. They've made a lot of great stuff.
Yeah there's about 8 different studios inside them that work on different projects,
Telecom for international projects (and lupin sometimes)
a studio for Detective Conan
The studio which handled Megalo box and the new creed tie in
Marza Planet (studio behind sonics cutscenes and the cgi lupin movie)
Tokyo Movie , which is like a core team
among others i dont recall of the top of my head but deferring and outsourcing has kinda always been their thing.
It absolutely warms my heart to know that studio Ghibli did the animation for the TNBA episode “Growing Pains”. Even though TMS is credited for it, so amazing to find out something totally different. Thank you so much for sharing that ❤👍💕🎉.
its a good ep, Tanaka being director makes a lot of sense there since she's pretty well versed with that crew
Great piece! Liked & shared!
Thank yoU!!
Fantastic vid, Steve. It was all very interesting. No wonder I'm subscribed to the channel!
thank you!
Harley Quinn doing the Ghibli hair thing with her jester cap should have become a character standard. This whole video was a delight and the credit given to unseen and under appreciated animators is awesome to see.
it does feel pretty natural, thank you for watchin!
They don't like putting her in og outfit anymore, though.
The quality of your work never ceases to amuse me congrats.
Thank you!!!
Very interesting video. Well done, Stevem!
thank you!
TMS was a big part of anime coming over to the states in the 90's and ghibli was part of their group. IIRC part of their marketing into the US was to make more money in order to drum up more money to be able to afford ghibli studio work. anime budgets in the 90's were crazy!
I don't really think it went that way, like ghibli didn't give much thought to oversea territories until the Disney deal they didn't have the time, anime budgets in the 90s were for the most part very small, and there's a definite gap between the outsource work like here for telecom and tms and standard tv anime work
@@Stevem I meant they were trying to drum up sales over here to make money for their budgets back in Japan.
maybe tms would but theyve been doing that for quite some time decades even by this point, ghibli not so much
It's wild to realize I've been a ghibli fan longer than I thought. The clay face episodes were always my favorite. Card captors is my #1 magical girl anime.
yeah to be clear Ghibli themselves only worked on Growing Pains, but telecoms work on part 2 is amazing
Interesting piece of trivia. Good day/afternoon/evening, by the way 👍
thank you!
Thank you for this great research
no probs
Holly cow....now I know why I love the animation of these episodes SO MUCH, effing legendary Ghibli studio did these....no wonder the animation is so smooth and amazing in these, I have watch the World Finest episodes so much and Growing Pains is also an Episode I remember repeating a lot....damn such a cool bit of trivia to know.
Yeah a lot of their greats did stuff on growing pains that finale is amazing
This video made me so happy. I thought I was going to see a Gibli style BTman Homage and what I got was an awesome love letter to my childhood. ❤ well done!
Glad you enjoyed
Great, now I want to see Batman done in the Ghibli way. Something like Kiki's meets Princess Monoke.
13:28 Joker's facial expressions as he talks to Lex kind of have sort of Lupin III feel.
Well some of the older ghibli members have worked on lupin and the telecom staff have including the boarders for that episode
Some one-off characters throughout both BTAS and TNBA look like they came out of Lupin due to being made by TMS. One noteworthy case is in the Calendar Girl episode, where one of the CEOs taken hostage (the car company one specifically) has facial features and movement that really make him stand out against the other characters present in the episode.
There's also a real blink-and-you-miss-it moment in... Robin's Reckoning pt1, I think? Bruce goes out to interrogate various goons for intelligence on who killed Dick's parents, and in one quick shot one of these guys moves in a panicked fashion that looks _exactly_ like something out of a Lupin III episode.
Interesting to see that the relationship webs between studios span outsides Japan. Many thanks for the vid Stevem, it was great like always.
Yeah it can be big money for a studio to have contracts like that tms had many but Toei also used to do transformers
9:45 - Eeehh, I'd chalk that up to Batman's redesign just simply being bad, doing nothing but cause animators a headache.
it has nothing to do with that, it's the difference between how telecom and ghibli handle it. You can clearly see a difference from ep 1 to ep 2.
I don't really think the design has changed that much neither in comparison to the Joker at least.
When I first saw the tweet, I was skeptical. So thank you for showcasing the truth of it!
Well now you know I didn't expect people not to be skeptical but I made a whole two threads on it originally so I gave a lot of context
@@Stevem man, I don’t have Twitter, so I just saw the original tweet and had no further context.
And I don’t think I saw the claim on Twitter, but instead on discord or in a RUclips short or something.
Regardless, your video was very much enjoyed by me. Thank you.
@@bellboy7809 glad you liked it
another fire vid thank u
No probs 🙂
The episode Growing Pains has stuck with me my entire life form the fist time I saw it.
it's pretty punchy
History is very interesting indeed, I loved hearing all the wrinkles I would have never imagined
it's fun to uncover for sure
I was intrigued by this but didn’t think it would my attention. I have to say though, this was fascinating and brilliantly researched and presented. Great stuff 👏a great shout too to all the invisible work that goes on in the production of these amazing animations
Thank you !
OMG OMG OMG! I have seen this and watch this video with Wayans Smoke and Black Peter Griffin on RUclips and it was awesome! I love Studio Ghibli, Superman, Batman, Batman cartoon, Superman cartoon, Studio Ghibli movies, that David guy and the video essay! I also love the words that were put into sentences! ⭐⭐⭐⭐
That Clayface episode always felt unusually creepy and disturbing. Now I know why - anime!
I think its suppose to be disturbing lol kinda the point
I was going to skip over this video cause I thought it was clickbait, but damn am I glad I sat through and watched it.
it's the real deal
When you said "Growing Pains" something in my brain clicked and it all made sense.
yeah i mean theres a bit where Yoshio seems to repeat a cut he did in the opening of mononoke with the girl falling over running from the demon boar
Really interesting to know!!!
I'm glad!
Man I’m learning something new everyday
Crazy huh
Batman TAS sorta feels like a lost edgy creative anime but obviously it's still a good show and it's one of my favorite TV shows lol.
i wouldnt use edgy in any sense lol
Great video! I think about how much work goes uncredited a lot.
very true
the invisible hand of the market to the invisible hand of ... animation
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO STEVEM VIDEO!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
if y'all aren't familiar with the french animation school Gobelins their youtube channel has a bunch of students' final projects on it, there's hours of fantastic creative animated shorts i can't recommend enough
I've seen the shorts
This video proves, you can never have too much Ghibli.
wahayyyy
@@Stevem Great video, btw; I love your work.
Thank you so much for this! I don't know why your Twitter thread got so much flack. I've seen so much praise for TMS's work on Tiny Toons and Aninmaniacs and such and I love catching the subtle Japanese stylistic touches that happen in their episodes. More work should be done highlighting outsourcing and subcontracting work online.
There's also a great video trying to pin down who animated the iconic Clayface scene you mentioned
ruclips.net/video/cj91CZqMF0k/видео.html
That scene was probs animated by multiple people
Also another issue is likely half the staff is completely uncredited so basically you'd have to ask around older telecom staff if they remember
EDIT it might be an all uncredited situation too.
Nuuuuuu! Tokyo Movie Shinsha is my favorite Movie Shinsha!!! [EXPLOSIONS]
10:39 marbles and explosions, very anime looking!
Stevem is out there on his way to become the Nardwar of the world of animation with all this digging he is doing on who has been working on what
Doot dodododooo...
I’m early for once! Even if it’s a few hours late but I’m HYPED!!
There's certainly enough aviation for a Ghibli film....
The blimps a nice touch
@@Stevem Its delta-shape means it isn't, strictly speaking a blimp - because the lifting body also develops lift, it's an "aereon".
I happen to love aereons. I think it's a damn shame that there are currently no production-model aereons, nor cyclocranes.
Yay Steve🎉🎉
Yayy
Yay Steve ✨
lets goooo
Man you make good points in these videos I’ll be shocked if you do more stuff related to Japan working on American cartoons
i have no idea if i would or not this all happened randomly
THANK YOU. This is the sorta info that I like to have when describing why anime is amazing to the uninitiated. being able to say, remember that amazing sh** from BTAS? you love? yeah that was made in Japan haha
Glad it's helpful
In the episode of Batman the animated series DEEP FREEZE the robot is essentially a castle in the sky rip.
TMS didnt work on that one but another studio that has relations to them did Dong Yang who are a Korean studio
As I've said and will reiterate, the difference between what makes something anime or western is 1) Who has creative control. IE, are the people making all the creative decisions and saying what goes where and how it should be done Japanese or Western. 2) Who is the primary intended audience of the work. IE, are the primary consumers intended to be Japanese or Western with other audiences, if there are such things, being an after thought.
id recommend reading the book anime identity, because neither of the things you have stated are actually true, many such time anime is shown abroad or via streaming faster than it will be broadcast in Japan and there are many people in the industry who are not Japanese, especially since twitter has became so popular for recruiting, but even the directors arent all Japanese these days, Michael Arese directed an anime movie first back in 2006.
yes we did. and did you know the studio that animated Spawn the Animated Series would be known as Mad House Studios. now we know why the capes are so fluid
I know they worked on it but I don't know how many of the eps they animated
So cool. So stressful but so cool. As a Batman Gotham Knight and Batman Ninja lover this is a nice crossover prequel
Gotham knight had done good shorts
So animation companies cooperate with each other? Shocking! But yeah, knowing its people we know for completely different things, it is funny seeing them in something like Batman. Nice work putting all the pieces together, you really know the industry!
thank you!!
Growing Pains is my favorite episode and Annie one of my favorite characters after the animation change of BTAS.
I didn't know Studio Ghibli animated that Batman and Superman crossover wow.
approximately half of it like i said in the video yeah
Oh my god of course Part 2 looks great!
Some really strong cuts in it
i've always wanted a Miyazaki DUNE. pleasee god give me a Miyazaki Dune
he's a little too old for that, but I mean Nausciaa manga could fill the gap so
ok good to know, guess that explains why I just love growing pains is one of my fave btas episodes
Lot of great stuff in that one
the scene in justice league when they fought a brainiac infused lex luthor and a scene of them jumping from a window that feels very anime style
Might be a telecom episode I have not checked
I remember when it was very controversial because in reality ghibli didn't really animate it they only edited it and made a coompliation of the original episodes for the movie that's why you could see the theme songs in the movie it was originally not supposed to be and supposed to have extra scenes but they messed it up and didn't do it and still got credit for it if they animated it and the studios which animated 80% of Princess Momonoke most of them didn't got credit for it,but Paul Dino calmed them down and let it be bygone in exchange for collaborating with Batman Beyond movie and Batman Gotham Knight with other studios which again those studios always wanted to animate The Batman and many studios also wanted to animate Batman Beyond movie too sao Paul Dino let them animated kids and censored version of Batman Beyond movie while he worked on others on the original uncut version as for the other anime studios more of an opportunity for them as they always wanted to doi it also still get money and credit for it!
Ghibli Deserve to gave their Animation Talent to American SuperHeroes
I would love to see a 2D animated Superman movie inspired by the old Fleischer Studios cartoons that was a big inspiration for Miyazaki.
Still that now Ghibli have a Contract with Lucasfilm for some Star Wars shorts so i wouldn't be suprised about a MCU TV series/special animated by the studios for will come off sometime
Calm down STEVEM! Good vid
lol thanks
If you think THAT is strange, on Lauren Faust's DC Superhero Girls, Bruce W Smith and John Sanford worked on some episodes!
21:38 I have that book! Got my hands on the other complete books too. Had no idea that was a Ghibli episode
Lol I should have asked you, the scans I saw were blurry but it's literally looks legits there a website that archives the credits also
lmao yeah I looked up the same scans before and was able to get the gist of what they were saying but there were one or two books that hadn't been scanlated. Great job on the video still
16:18 that face! it's very Giant Robo
episode 2 of Giant Robo had Oh production and Ghibli animating it and one of those animators is Hideaki Yoshio the Animation Director of this episode
I’m know I say this in all your videos, but you’re like a real life Harry Potter
what does that mean lol
9:25 YES using the Laputa dub, CHAD 😄
lol i will say i'm not a fan of the new orchestral changes made much prefer the old OST
TMS was the company behind CyberSix, a cartoon based on the argentinian comic of the same name. I think it was a first for an argentinian property. As an argentinian it makes me proud. 🇦🇷⭐⭐⭐
And guess who was the director! Ms Tanaka!
Many Japanese and Korean studios worked in the Batman the Animated series and it's specials. In fact no single episode of these series (and it's movies and specials) was made in the US, they were only written there.
sometimes the boards were done in the states too but yeah that's pretty much the usual by the 90s in american cartoons
You’re telling me there wasn’t one single US animator who worked on the Batman series?
maybe if they worked at one of those Asian Studios -shrug-
22:37, what does he mean about blowing up on Twitter for CCS?
That's about the ghibli animating on batman as a whole not Sakura
I've heard some speculation that Beware The Grey Ghost from the original run of Batman was mostly done by a studio named DUST instead of the credited Spectrum. You have any info om this?
I have not looked into it, I'd have to look at the animators credited and cross reference with studio dusts staff
okay well problem one is no animator is credited in the actual credits so who knows who it could be ive never heard of DUST though
awesome, so many facts!
Take em all in
@@Stevem jajaja
Amazing, finally. I have heard a lot of details on which studio animated what episodes, how the behind the scenes where, when WB actually finished up the animation or sent it back. But this is even more detail. I would have never thought they could afford sending the workload to other studios but to make work to faster they needed to be more without being staff at the company so I can see how it is like every animation studio had contact with eachother and during hard press spread the work.
Now admirable that may be I do think this cast a shadow on how Western and even the Japanese animation buisness overwork thier staff immensley. I mean this is ridicules the deadlines and eveything they want in. And also with people us I include me thought maybe at one point. "Wow why can´t Japan animate thier anime like Western cartoon." And then find out they did those western cartoons all the time. Sure I know some Disney shows in the 90´s was either animated by one of thier houses in France and Australia. But I guess most of Ducktales was Korean studios. But I would like to find out. A lot of animation during the 90´s I think are peak television animation. But I like to find out what was the most important part. Ofcourse direction is one, how much did the American animation do to help the outsourced studios to replicate thier style and how they work in the details and fluidity of the character movments.
I just found this video so I don´t know how much or what you will cover. I hope you or someone might dig in how the animation in Spider-Man TAS was done. They were pretty close to Batman TAS but they had other work etic and involvment. I mean it was´t by design they said "Let´s reuse this shot." What I heard there were becuse of a lot of errors so to fix that they did this akward reused animation but they did´t seem to fix any missing animation if needed like WB did for Batman. So I am intrested in finding that out. It would be amazing if there were this unfinished frames that was just stashed somewhere able to be used to finish and complete the animation.
Disney's 90s afternoon had telecom involved also and telecom also worked on spiderman early on. American deadlines tend to go longer than anime deadlines this is also pre digital for warner so when that happens the deadline can be closer to the release date etc. I don't tend to talk about American cartoons this is kinda a random off cut from a bigger video I'm making