I don't know what it is about Pontiacs compared to other V8s, but they were so reliable and bullet proof. Driving a 455 Pontiac vs. a 454 chevy is just a different experience.
Many, many years ago, I had a 1963 Pontiac Catalina Ventura, 2-door hardtop, white with an auburn interior. Absolutely, the most beautiful car I have ever owned and, IMHO, one of the most beautiful cars of all time.
Pontiac truly offered excitement to all at that time (mid 1960s) when you could buy an executive sedan with a big block and a 4 speed manual with a big wide bench seat in it. They had something for everyone. The illustrations are simply exquisite and not drawn far off from the real thing
I had a ‘68 Catalina coupe with the standard 389 with a 2bbl. You’re right, it was a wonderful engine. I’m not sure of the horse power of the regular gas 389 that year but it was more than adequate. I took that from Long Island to Niagara Falls on my honeymoon and except for a flat on the Thruway, it ran great. I did, on the advice of my friend who was also my mechanic, replace that plastic timing gear. It was one of the smoothest riding cars that I have ever owned.
First ticket I ever got (at age 16) was in a '63 Catalina with a 389. This was in the summer of 1975. I had my provisional drivers license and my friend who bought the Catalina only had a learners permit. I got clocked going 73 in a 40 mph zone. That thing was deceptively fast and smooth. Lost my license for 6 months and had my insurance rates go up. My Dad was thrilled!
Hi, could you investigate the pontiacs made in Australia during 60's. They were produced at the Pagewood plant in Sydney. I think they were Parisians that came CKD from Canada. This plant was very versatile and even made Frigidaire ovens and fridges. My family had connections to this factory.
Funny that you mention the timing gear. I thought I remembered my dad saying that Pontiacs had bad timing chains that jumped time earlier than other engines. Now I know that I remembered correctly. I never understood the reason for the “plastic “ teeth on the gear anyway. Supposedly it was for noise reduction. But when we replaced them with metal gears, I’d be hard pressed to hear the difference. It was very minimal.
Yeah, the nylon covered cam gear was used by every manufacturer...even gear drives without a chain... I think it was because engines had gotten too reliable and they needed a minor internal engine failure to get people thinking about buying a new car again... of course, timing belts work even better for a quick failure...
I miss that power steering from back then. You could turn the steering wheel with your little finger. The "new stuff" sucks. My friend's mom had a 62 Ventura and his dad had a 63 GP. Beautiful cars. I have always loved the 421. Excellent video. Thank You and your love for these cars really shows. I'd love to own one. Best Regards
Love Pontiacs. I have a 1967 Firebird Convertible. Pontiac built very exciting cars over the years. It's sad that GM killed Pontiac. Pontiacs were styled very nicely and extremely attractive. Always innovative compared to the other GM brands. Thanks for a great video and historical review! You knocked it out of the park as you usually do. Keep up the GREAT WORK.
My Dad bought a 1961 Bonneville in 1963. It had a 4 speed automatic. It was beautiful, reliable and fast. It is the car I would love to have today. Everything except the gas mileage and rusting was just great.
I learned to drive in my mom's 67 Firebird 326 2V and that car had enough power for anything we needed and my father towed a 21' travel trailer with his 67 Firebird 326 4V.
A '63 Tempest Le Mans kicked ass at Daytona Speed Week, lapping the field of 'vettes, Ferraris, and everything else. Paul Goldschmidt averaged 145 mph in the rain.
Excellent review as always !! Guess those 421's had to use premium leaded fuel back in the day? I wonder how unleaded fuel affects engines those with 12- 13 compression ratios? Look at the 70's to see how far we have fallen in the HP race in the US. Things changed starting in 1971.
Trying to operate ANY engine long term designed to run on high grade leaded fuel will result in reduced power, spark knock, higher operating temperatures and ultimately ENGINE FAILURE. The 421 would suffer the same fate. The correct thing to do if you want the engine to survive if the car is driven frequently is to remove the heads and have a reputable engine machine shop install hardened valve seats and if a high performance engine, the rest of the valvetrain (if it was mine) also with modern parts designed for use with unleaded or worse, ethanol fuel. Sometimes, you can get by like Adam does since none of his collection are true daily drivers anymore is to buy lots and lots of lead additive and aviation fuel if your lucky enough to live near an airport that will sell it to you. Leads main purpose in old school gasoline was to provide lubrication for the exhaust valves for a quieter and smoother running engine.
@@rogergoodman8665 No. Lead, in the form tetraethyllead was developed as a cheap octane booster. Its use allowed the 120, 130 Octane fuels that gave Allied aircraft an edge after 1941. BTW they tried 140 and 150 octane as well but the lead fouling of exhausts and airframes required too much remediation without yielding a substantial improvement in power output. Any lubricating qualities were incidental.
@@larrynorsworthy8582 TEL had a number of knock-on effects (pardon the implied pun)but its primary purpose was always Octane boosting (following the work by British Engineer Harry Ricardo during late WW1 and early 1920's). The manufacturers were well aware of the dangers of resulting lead poisoning (the inventor himself fell seriously ill from it) but it was cheap and profits came first for GM and Dupont.
Great memories. My Grandfather was an insurance salesman in Detroit Mi. Every 2 years he would get a new Pontiac. He had well over 20 new Pontiac's. In the later years were Catalina's with 2 barrel 389 and one of his last 400s. We had our share too. Dad had '63 GP, '66 Bonneville and a '69 GP (my favorite car). I had '69 Firebird 350 2 V. Miss those cars. Thanks for the memories.
I had a colleage at conservatory who had a minty '66 4dr Bonneville (white) with the 421 3-2bbl rig. We'd go to gigs, and surprise a LOT of IROC Camaros in the mid 80s!
A pet peeve of mine is the "advancement" of car technology in a direction that I don't think is an advancement at all. The complexity of modern cars is mind-numbing, and honestly, while I'm all about technology, there are some places where I draw the line. In my 2006 vehicle, there is so much safety reinforcement that it obstructs my vision - which oh by the way is a key component of my safety. To be honest, I don't even need power steering and power brakes. Had a 1967 Chevelle with zero power equipment, loved that car, greatly regret selling it. A straight-6 250 and a Powerglide, it wasn't going to win any speed contests, but that's not what I wanted it for. God willing, I'll be in a place soon where I can buy 2-3 vehicles that I like to drive, that are simple and cheap and easy to maintain and repair, and run out my days not worrying about having to buy a solar-vegan-hybrid car that's refusing to drive me to the market because I've exceeded my allowed mileage for the week based upon my carbon credit score and how many times I used the air conditioning. Just let me drive the car. I miss driving real cars.
Thank You Adam. Once again I´m lost for words on your Love and Passion for these long gone classic American car´s. Here in Europe we had the trope that American car´s were low tech land yacht´s with little power in comparison with our European sport car´s and sedans, which could only be driven gracefully in a straight line. But you have certainly openned my eye´s to these beautiful, elegant and powerful cars, Thank´s again.
Yep, the first thing I do (if I am not going to completely rebuild an engine) is replace the nylon timing set with an all metal one. I most recently did this with my recently sold 1970 Buick Electra Custom convertible. While I was at it, I replaced the timing cover, and oil pump kit. TA performance makes NEW timing covers. Expensive but worth it.
Adam, totally agree with you about the goodness of the 1965 Pontiac engine offerings. You did state that you didn’t think any manufacturer offered a broader range than Pontiac. Chrysler Corporation offered the following for its full sized lineup in 1965; the 1 barrel 225 slant 6 making 145 horsepower; why anyone would want their full sized Plymouth or Dodge that underpowered is beyond me, but available nonetheless. A 230 horsepower two barrel regular fuel 318 V-8 was next, followed by the 270 horsepower regular fuel two barrel 383 V-8, the four barrel premium fuel 330 horsepower “Commando” 383 V-8, and a 365 horsepower four barrel premium fuel “Super Commando” 426 V-8. Were these engines “better” than the Pontiac V-8’s? I think the Pontiac engines were arguably smoother and quieter. And I’d take the Pontiac over any Chrysler product for everyday driving. My dad owned a 1965 Plymouth Fury III 318, Pontiacs were much more refined than the Plymouth. But that being said, there was a wide range of engines available from Chrysler Corporation.
Very articulate. Very enjoyable. You, Sir, have the heart of a real automotive enthusiast. These were the glory days in American car manufacturing. The cars weren't just effective mechanically. They were (and yes, I'll use the French) objets d' art, although very large examples of such.
As the owner of a 1965 RHD (right hand drive) Canadian Pontiac Parisienne with the 283ci and power glide, as well as a version of the 1965 Impala dash it had 'clap hand wipers' though they were not articulated.
Glenn "Fireball" Roberts, who ironically died due to burns from a crash in a '64 Galaxie 500. There is also the '64 GTO 'ringer' used in magazine testing, perhaps against the Ferrari GTO, which was said to have a 421... Some Pontiac dealers, such as Royal I believe, had packages which would put a 421 in your GTO.
Jim Wangers, a Pontiac ad agency guy, was known to throw lots of those 'ringers' at the car magazines in those days. Car & Driver tested the 64 GTO that you referred to, and then in 1965, pitted a 421 2+2 against a Ferrari 2+2 at Bridgehampton. Since the Pontiac already had the biggest engine, C&D got a Royal Bobcat car that supposedly did 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. Hmm.
The 421 was only available through the 1966 model year. 1967 through 1969 cars got the 428 which was just a 421 bored out .030" to give 7 more cubic inches. The bore and stroke were both increased in 1970 to give 455 cubic inches and GM removed the 400 cubic inch limit on intermediate cars so you could get the 455 in a GTO or Firebird beginning in 1971.
When I first began to pay attention to cars in 1968, Pontiacs were my favorites. Maybe because the Monkeemobile was a custom Pontiac. They had the long and low design language down perfectly in 1965 with the Catalina and 2+2 on Kelsey-Hayes 8-lug wheels.
Always impressed how you unlock memories, this time of my friend's & family's mid sixties Pontiacs. The info you bring, and have researched. That plastic timing gear, supposedly to quiet the cam drive, which you could never hear over the Pontiac exhaust. Watched that repair.
Canadian Pontiacs in late 50s and 60s were built on Chevy chassis, hence 283v8 and I had a 58 with 235L6. They also were never "Wide-Track" and I don't believe had the performance versions. We Canadians always looked in envy at the US versions we saw on TV!
Interesting as usual. The description of the 389 2-bbl brings to mind my 1971 Le Mans Sport with a 350 2-bbl. I was always surprised at its peppiness when compared with similarly powered chevies and Fords. It had plenty of go!
@@jetsons101 No, sorry.. Bandit's was the 1977 which had the 6.6 liter 403 Oldsmobile engine with the automatic transmission. If you got the 4 speed manual you got the 400 cubic inch Pontiac T/A engine. The 455 SD Super Duty was an actual full on racing engine with special hotter cam, solid lifters, forged crank and connecting rods. In 1974 Pontiac TRANS AM also sold a non-SD 455 cubic inch V8 but that was the same engine you could get in a Safari station wagon.
Man.....I don't know what it is about Pontiacs. They intrigue me like no other vehicle. A defunct brand but happy to report, all my children that are under the age of 18, know the name Pontiac.
This information was interesting. I was looking at the Pontiacs in the video and it hit me. Pontiac really was trying to do its own thing for the longest time. I took notice from the wheels and the instrumentation panels and other details. They did that well into the 1980's. I could say the 1990's, but the gray plastic interiors took away from some interesting ideas. I was watching and I could not keep the engine info straight in my mind. Kudos to you Adam for having that information memorized. I was singing Little GTO watching the videos as you shared the engines. Thank you for the video Adam.
I am in strong agreement with your final statements about the industry "regressing" in terms of smoothness and power delivery. How about doing a video on ALL the Pontiac specialty engines including the ultra rare 427 and Ram Air V 400 and 303?
When I was a kid I scored a 66 421 Catalina, for the motor to put in my 1980 formula . Motor mounts didn't line up and metric power steering lines .got it in there and it was a tire frier. Sonoco 93 octane only . First trip on the highway it overheated . Had to cram a radiator from a 1977 gran prix in it.
My dad street raced from 63-66 ( before he got drafted) and I recall him telling me that when the 421 came out, guys in Chicagoland were buying them otc to shoehorn into whatever they could get them in. 421s were known for breaking transmissions and U joints, because they had so much low end torque. The only Poncho we ever owned was a very used 70 Catalina Executive. That 1 had the std 400 2bbl with single exhaust but it was a real tire smoker when pressed and actually gave fairly good mileage for a full sized sled. I recall as a child that even in our worst winters, that car always started, 1/2 throttle pump, 3/4 crank and it was up and running. Sadly that car died due to a engine fire that seemed to be caused by a reputered fuel pump that sprayed gas all over the hot engine, in 1983. Dad said it looked like Christine...
Pontiac had a race version of the 421 that used two 4 barrel carters with no idle circuit. The intake had a Corvair 2 barrel between the two 4 barrels for the idle circuit.
@@BuzzLOLOL it sure was. It’s only fall back was it could not turn a lot of RPMs, but for the most part it pushed some pretty big cars around quite quickly.
My dad had a '59 Catalina with a 421 shoehorned in- that car would haul!! Sadly, it was totalled when an oncoming driver had an epileptic seizure (his very first). My father escaped with a couple of broken ribs and little else WRT injury.
The Pontiac in the print ad at the start of the video has DM 65-3 on its license plate. Is the 65-3 for stand for "1965 three two barrels?" If so, what was the DM for, Detroit, Michigan maybe ???
To me it all started in 1961 with the bubble top coupe. I think it was the first year for the 8-lug aluminum wheels too. A 61 Catalina coupe with 4-speed was not a car you wanted to call out on the street ... 😁
A super duty 389 was available in '60, although the term super duty was not used. In '56, the second year of Pontiac's V8, they produced a small number of the Strato-Streak 317 cid/ 285 hp screamers.
No argument from me, as to the overall exceptional line-up of Pontiac engines in that era...But I will say, that the 430 4bbl V8 offered by Buick during the later 1960s was just as satisfying as the 421 Pontiac. And maybe more durable, as my Dad's 67 Buick wildcat, with that huge V8-listed at 360 hp, lasted well over 300,000 miles!...and I have read, where dragsters favored this V8 for it's ability to be "juiced " up, hp-wise! Whatever, all three big manufacturers offered some mighty potent engines back then!
It was hard to get big HP out of that earlier Buick nailhead engine design, reason for Buick going with Olds/Pontiac/Cadillac engine design about 1965... Chevy also dropped their Ford-derived 348/409 engines for same reason about then... Dyno of (under rated HP) Super Duty Pontiac 421" engine: ruclips.net/video/gNg569agwiU/видео.html
Pontiac engines were all the same basic block from 326-421 (and later 400, 428 and 455). Whereas Buick or Chevy had to traverse 3 different basic blocks through the 60s and 70s. Chevy and Buick each had two different big blocks from the 50s and completely redesigned their big blocks by the mid 60s. Buick even had quite an evolution on their small block from 215-300/340-350.
I would believe that. Pontiac seemed to use 3 tiny 2v carbs, yet Rochester made 2v carbs for cars like the 455 Olds. If Pontiac had used 3 of those carbs, or maybe even only on the secondaries, I'll bet that they could have gotten way more power.
A few questions: What kind of fuel did these large "high output" V8s require? Did they require premium leaded? What was the octane rating? If running a vehicle like these today, what additives are needed to keep the engine running smoothly? Do these vehicles require ethanol-free fuel? Could any of these vehicles operate on 87-octane unleaded modern gasoline?
Old time leaded premium was commonly 110 octane. Also the low compression engines would run on modern 87 but a supply of ethanol free would be better. The old fuel systems can be damaged by ethanol.
I'm only going off of the History channel hour on Pontiac from the mid-90s. They said one of the years in the early '60s,while the Super Duty 421 was built. Pontiacs won 49 of 53 NASCAR races. At 8:19 I've heard & read that dual quad 13:1 421 in 1963 was more like 500 hp in reality
Thanks for posting all the great information about Pontiacs. I read that Chevrolet division produced less than 1% big block engines for cars during the entire decade of the sixties. Do you know the percentage of big blocks Pontiac produced over the same period?
@@RareClassicCars Thanks for the information. Do you know what percentage of Pontiacs were full size cars for the decade of the sixties? There is a persistent myth that all the cars of the sixties were giant gas guzzling monsters with huge engines and nobody cared how much fuel they burned because gas was cheap. That is not how I remember things. As I recall the average vehicle of the mid sixties burned less fuel than similar models of the mid-'50s or mid-'70s. A car from the '60s with a high-compression small block V8 and three speed automatic was peppy and gave decent gas mileage at the same time. A high compression big block was almost as efficent as a small-block if driven sensibly. Of course a few youngters did not drive sensibly and burned more fuel than necessary but that was not the car's fault. The vast majority of drivers at the time did drive sensibly and got reasonable fuel economy. Yhe "gas guzzlers of the sixties" myth is bunk.
Love my 1966 421 TriPower that I installed in my 1966 GTO 😏
Both the 421 and 428 were killer engines. Built a number of them, and they performed incredibly well.
Fantastic cars and engines never to be seen again. Thanks, Adam.
I don't know what it is about Pontiacs compared to other V8s, but they were so reliable and bullet proof. Driving a 455 Pontiac vs. a 454 chevy is just a different experience.
1960s Pontiacs were what the cool families of that era drove. They were so badass back then.. We'll never see the likes of that again.
Will always have a place in my heart for mid 60s stacked headlight Pontiacs. We had Bonnevilles, Catalinas, Grand Prixs, and Tempests
Many, many years ago, I had a 1963 Pontiac Catalina Ventura, 2-door hardtop, white with an auburn interior. Absolutely, the most beautiful car I have ever owned and, IMHO, one of the most beautiful cars of all time.
Loved my 1965 Lemans. 326 ci
I know someone who has a 1966 Grand Prix with the 421 in it. They’re very smooth running engines,
Loved my 64 Bonneville Convert, 66 Bonneville Sedan and 69 GP LJ. Fantastic cars.
Pontiac truly offered excitement to all at that time (mid 1960s) when you could buy an executive sedan with a big block and a 4 speed manual with a big wide bench seat in it. They had something for everyone. The illustrations are simply exquisite and not drawn far off from the real thing
wonder how many orderd a 4 door with a 4 speed ?
Pontiac never made a big block.
@@sherwinstaudt1881Oh, I thought the 421 or even the 389 were big blocks. Thank you for the lesson.
I really liked my aunt's 65 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 8 lug wheels & the translucent steering wheel!!! 👍👍🙂
Love them old Pontiac’s!
I had a ‘68 Catalina coupe with the standard 389 with a 2bbl. You’re right, it was a wonderful engine. I’m not sure of the horse power of the regular gas 389 that year but it was more than adequate. I took that from Long Island to Niagara Falls on my honeymoon and except for a flat on the Thruway, it ran great. I did, on the advice of my friend who was also my mechanic, replace that plastic timing gear. It was one of the smoothest riding cars that I have ever owned.
It had the 400 2 barrel. 265 horse. The premium fuel 2 barrel one was the 290 horse. And the 400 4 barrel, was 340 horse. GOOD MOTORS!
@@danielboone72 Thanks, Dan. You’re right, 389 was gone after 1966.
I bought a 1967 Catalina for a hundred bucks once with the 389 two barrel and it could spin tires for a half block. Wish I had it today.
First ticket I ever got (at age 16) was in a '63 Catalina with a 389. This was in the summer of 1975. I had my provisional drivers license and my friend who bought the Catalina only had a learners permit. I got clocked going 73 in a 40 mph zone. That thing was deceptively fast and smooth. Lost my license for 6 months and had my insurance rates go up. My Dad was thrilled!
Gotta luv the green on green catalina ! Absolutely stunning !
The chrome on the top-dog engines is just perfect!
Hi, could you investigate the pontiacs made in Australia during 60's. They were produced at the Pagewood plant in Sydney. I think they were Parisians that came CKD from Canada. This plant was very versatile and even made Frigidaire ovens and fridges. My family had connections to this factory.
Funny that you mention the timing gear. I thought I remembered my dad saying that Pontiacs had bad timing chains that jumped time earlier than other engines. Now I know that I remembered correctly. I never understood the reason for the “plastic “ teeth on the gear anyway. Supposedly it was for noise reduction. But when we replaced them with metal gears, I’d be hard pressed to hear the difference. It was very minimal.
The fuel pump excentric failed on my brother's 68 GTO. I remember my dad replacing it when I was a kid
They probably did it as a cost reduction and sold it to the public as "quieter and gentler on the ear" or some horse hockey. Follow the dollar.
Those were the nylon-covered aluminum timing chain sprockets that just about everyone was using back then.
Yeah, the nylon covered cam gear was used by every manufacturer...even gear drives without a chain... I think it was because engines had gotten too reliable and they needed a minor internal engine failure to get people thinking about buying a new car again... of course, timing belts work even better for a quick failure...
@@andyharman3022 True. We just called them PLASTIC because they crumbled.
Pontiacs are some of the most beautiful cars ever built. Gorgeous chrome and sculpted body lines. Enjoyed this video very much!
I miss that power steering from back then. You could turn the steering wheel with your little finger. The "new stuff" sucks. My friend's mom had a 62 Ventura and his dad had a 63 GP. Beautiful cars. I have always loved the 421. Excellent video. Thank You and your love for these cars really shows. I'd love to own one. Best Regards
Love Pontiacs. I have a 1967 Firebird Convertible. Pontiac built very exciting cars over the years. It's sad that GM killed Pontiac. Pontiacs were styled very nicely and extremely attractive. Always innovative compared to the other GM brands. Thanks for a great video and historical review! You knocked it out of the park as you usually do. Keep up the GREAT WORK.
My 64 Catalina had the 389 4bbl was so smooth and quiet that long distance trips were so much easier with less fatigue making it a real pleasure.
My Dad bought a 1961 Bonneville in 1963. It had a 4 speed automatic. It was beautiful, reliable and fast. It is the car I would love to have today. Everything except the gas mileage and rusting was just great.
Had a '67 Parisienne 2+2, !283 2v. The inside of the windshield was trimmed in chrome! A great old boat with baby moon hub caps.
I learned to drive in my mom's 67 Firebird 326 2V and that car had enough power for anything we needed and my father towed a 21' travel trailer with his 67 Firebird 326 4V.
A '63 Tempest Le Mans kicked ass at Daytona Speed Week, lapping the field of 'vettes, Ferraris, and everything else. Paul Goldschmidt averaged 145 mph in the rain.
When GM divisions were truly unique
My Pops Bonnie was healthy. Did hundo from Minnesota thru. Dakotas to Colorado. Great memories 🙏🏻
Excellent review as always !! Guess those 421's had to use premium leaded fuel back in the day? I wonder how unleaded fuel affects engines those with 12- 13 compression ratios? Look at the 70's to see how far we have fallen in the HP race in the US. Things changed starting in 1971.
Trying to operate ANY engine long term designed to run on high grade leaded fuel will result in reduced power, spark knock, higher operating temperatures and ultimately ENGINE FAILURE. The 421 would suffer the same fate. The correct thing to do if you want the engine to survive if the car is driven frequently is to remove the heads and have a reputable engine machine shop install hardened valve seats and if a high performance engine, the rest of the valvetrain (if it was mine) also with modern parts designed for use with unleaded or worse, ethanol fuel. Sometimes, you can get by like Adam does since none of his collection are true daily drivers anymore is to buy lots and lots of lead additive and aviation fuel if your lucky enough to live near an airport that will sell it to you. Leads main purpose in old school gasoline was to provide lubrication for the exhaust valves for a quieter and smoother running engine.
@@rogergoodman8665 No. Lead, in the form tetraethyllead was developed as a cheap octane booster. Its use allowed the 120, 130 Octane fuels that gave Allied aircraft an edge after 1941. BTW they tried 140 and 150 octane as well but the lead fouling of exhausts and airframes required too much remediation without yielding a substantial improvement in power output. Any lubricating qualities were incidental.
@anthonyjackson280 didn't lead also provide a cushion for the valve seats?
@@larrynorsworthy8582 TEL had a number of knock-on effects (pardon the implied pun)but its primary purpose was always Octane boosting (following the work by British Engineer Harry Ricardo during late WW1 and early 1920's). The manufacturers were well aware of the dangers of resulting lead poisoning (the inventor himself fell seriously ill from it) but it was cheap and profits came first for GM and Dupont.
@@larrynorsworthy8582 incidentally to its main purpose.
Great memories. My Grandfather was an insurance salesman in Detroit Mi. Every 2 years he would get a new Pontiac. He had well over 20 new Pontiac's. In the later years were Catalina's with 2 barrel 389 and one of his last 400s. We had our share too. Dad had '63 GP, '66 Bonneville and a '69 GP (my favorite car). I had '69 Firebird 350 2 V. Miss those cars. Thanks for the memories.
Your appreciation and explanation of these engines results in exemplary cameo videos for Pontiacs!
Pontiac has used cast connecting rods in many engines until 80s .
Blew up at drag strip a lot.
Once rods changed to forged they were excellent.
Yes but not the 421s
The Ram Air IV has a cast crankshaft.
@@drippinglass’m fairly sure, if any Ponti engine had forged shafts, it would be the IV
I had a colleage at conservatory who had a minty '66 4dr Bonneville (white) with the 421 3-2bbl rig. We'd go to gigs, and surprise a LOT of IROC Camaros in the mid 80s!
A pet peeve of mine is the "advancement" of car technology in a direction that I don't think is an advancement at all. The complexity of modern cars is mind-numbing, and honestly, while I'm all about technology, there are some places where I draw the line. In my 2006 vehicle, there is so much safety reinforcement that it obstructs my vision - which oh by the way is a key component of my safety. To be honest, I don't even need power steering and power brakes. Had a 1967 Chevelle with zero power equipment, loved that car, greatly regret selling it. A straight-6 250 and a Powerglide, it wasn't going to win any speed contests, but that's not what I wanted it for.
God willing, I'll be in a place soon where I can buy 2-3 vehicles that I like to drive, that are simple and cheap and easy to maintain and repair, and run out my days not worrying about having to buy a solar-vegan-hybrid car that's refusing to drive me to the market because I've exceeded my allowed mileage for the week based upon my carbon credit score and how many times I used the air conditioning. Just let me drive the car. I miss driving real cars.
One of the best videos you've made. I hadn't any idea whatsoever how beefy the Pontiacs were in the early sixties!
Thank You Adam. Once again I´m lost for words on your Love and Passion for these long gone classic American car´s. Here in Europe we had the trope that American car´s were low tech land yacht´s with little power in comparison with our European sport car´s and sedans, which could only be driven gracefully in a straight line. But you have certainly openned my eye´s to these beautiful, elegant and powerful cars, Thank´s again.
Yep, the first thing I do (if I am not going to completely rebuild an engine) is replace the nylon timing set with an all metal one. I most recently did this with my recently sold 1970 Buick Electra Custom convertible. While I was at it, I replaced the timing cover, and oil pump kit. TA performance makes NEW timing covers. Expensive but worth it.
Really? Had no idea. Those timing covers are hard to find!
@@RareClassicCars Used ones are. TA Performance has been reproducing them for over 20 years now.
An excellent overview, Adam. Thank you for putting it together -- I learned a lot.
I was never a GM fan, except for Pontiacs. I loved the early GTOs, but all of the stacked headlight models looked great! Wonderful video! Thank you!
Adam, totally agree with you about the goodness of the 1965 Pontiac engine offerings. You did state that you didn’t think any manufacturer offered a broader range than Pontiac. Chrysler Corporation offered the following for its full sized lineup in 1965; the 1 barrel 225 slant 6 making 145 horsepower; why anyone would want their full sized Plymouth or Dodge that underpowered is beyond me, but available nonetheless. A 230 horsepower two barrel regular fuel 318 V-8 was next, followed by the 270 horsepower regular fuel two barrel 383 V-8, the four barrel premium fuel 330 horsepower “Commando” 383 V-8, and a 365 horsepower four barrel premium fuel “Super Commando” 426 V-8. Were these engines “better” than the Pontiac V-8’s? I think the Pontiac engines were arguably smoother and quieter. And I’d take the Pontiac over any Chrysler product for everyday driving. My dad owned a 1965 Plymouth Fury III 318, Pontiacs were much more refined than the Plymouth. But that being said, there was a wide range of engines available from Chrysler Corporation.
Very articulate. Very enjoyable. You, Sir, have the heart of a real automotive enthusiast.
These were the glory days in American car manufacturing. The cars weren't just effective mechanically. They were (and yes, I'll use the French) objets d' art, although very large examples of such.
As the owner of a 1965 RHD (right hand drive) Canadian Pontiac Parisienne with the 283ci and power glide, as well as a version of the 1965 Impala dash it had 'clap hand wipers' though they were not articulated.
Back in the good old days.
I am so completely jealous of your car collection! Outstanding my man.
Glenn "Fireball" Roberts, who ironically died due to burns from a crash in a '64 Galaxie 500.
There is also the '64 GTO 'ringer' used in magazine testing, perhaps against the Ferrari GTO, which was said to have a 421...
Some Pontiac dealers, such as Royal I believe, had packages which would put a 421 in your GTO.
Jim Wangers, a Pontiac ad agency guy, was known to throw lots of those 'ringers' at the car magazines in those days. Car & Driver tested the 64 GTO that you referred to, and then in 1965, pitted a 421 2+2 against a Ferrari 2+2 at Bridgehampton. Since the Pontiac already had the biggest engine, C&D got a Royal Bobcat car that supposedly did 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. Hmm.
The 421 was only available through the 1966 model year. 1967 through 1969 cars got the 428 which was just a 421 bored out .030" to give 7 more cubic inches. The bore and stroke were both increased in 1970 to give 455 cubic inches and GM removed the 400 cubic inch limit on intermediate cars so you could get the 455 in a GTO or Firebird beginning in 1971.
Another bid difference was open and closed chamber heads some 67s had open but all 68 and after had them
Love those high speed interjected edits on some specs. Both very human and an aficionado of accurate details.
You have some sweet Ponchos, Adam.
When I first began to pay attention to cars in 1968, Pontiacs were my favorites. Maybe because the Monkeemobile was a custom Pontiac. They had the long and low design language down perfectly in 1965 with the Catalina and 2+2 on Kelsey-Hayes 8-lug wheels.
The very best V8 engine lineup,
326, 389, 421. Nothing else needed.
All those older Pontiacs engines were made from the same block casting design
Always impressed how you unlock memories, this time of my friend's & family's mid sixties Pontiacs. The info you bring, and have researched. That plastic timing gear, supposedly to quiet the cam drive, which you could never hear over the Pontiac exhaust. Watched that repair.
Canadian Pontiacs in late 50s and 60s were built on Chevy chassis, hence 283v8 and I had a 58 with 235L6. They also were never "Wide-Track" and I don't believe had the performance versions. We Canadians always looked in envy at the US versions we saw on TV!
USA Pontiac fans looked at the Canadian Pontiacs with envy with Chevy 425 HP 409 and 427" engines!
Hey Adam, your '66 Catalina looks amazing! I love seeing these great cars beautifully restored.
Even better is when you find one that's not in need of restoration.
Interesting as usual.
The description of the 389 2-bbl brings to mind my 1971 Le Mans Sport with a 350 2-bbl. I was always surprised at its peppiness when compared with similarly powered chevies and Fords. It had plenty of go!
Another great video for Rare Classic Cars...
Adam, this was a great watch, 1963 is my favorite year for Pontiac's. Great information, thanks for your time and work.....
I love Pontiacs built between 1960 and 1974. The 1974 Pontiac TRANS AM with the 455 SD Super Duty was the last of the breed.
@@MarinCipollina Would that be like the one from the movie Smokey and the Bandit?
@@jetsons101 No, sorry.. Bandit's was the 1977 which had the 6.6 liter 403 Oldsmobile engine with the automatic transmission. If you got the 4 speed manual you got the 400 cubic inch Pontiac T/A engine.
The 455 SD Super Duty was an actual full on racing engine with special hotter cam, solid lifters, forged crank and connecting rods.
In 1974 Pontiac TRANS AM also sold a non-SD 455 cubic inch V8 but that was the same engine you could get in a Safari station wagon.
@@MarinCipollina Thanks for info......
Awesome had a 1967 Pontiac executive what a fun car to own . and 1969 Bonneville
Love your videos, and am grateful for the content you create and knowledge of automotive history that you share with us all…..
Beautifully Styled were The Pontiacs of this Era, with a Tremendous Engine, as well, Adam😀👏
I love these videos. I have always been a Buick/Olds/Pontiac person, and these videos are a breath of fresh air. Keep them coming!
back in 69-70 south atlanta , I would go up to the shoney's big boy in forest park, every weekend it was a parade of hot rods, it was so cool
i likes those bonneville. mid late 1960s.
Great video! I love Pontiacs.
Man.....I don't know what it is about Pontiacs. They intrigue me like no other vehicle. A defunct brand but happy to report, all my children that are under the age of 18, know the name Pontiac.
This information was interesting. I was looking at the Pontiacs in the video and it hit me. Pontiac really was trying to do its own thing for the longest time. I took notice from the wheels and the instrumentation panels and other details. They did that well into the 1980's. I could say the 1990's, but the gray plastic interiors took away from some interesting ideas. I was watching and I could not keep the engine info straight in my mind. Kudos to you Adam for having that information memorized. I was singing Little GTO watching the videos as you shared the engines. Thank you for the video Adam.
Dyno dual quad Pontiac Super Duty 421" engine: ruclips.net/video/gNg569agwiU/видео.html
I am in strong agreement with your final statements about the industry "regressing" in terms of smoothness and power delivery. How about doing a video on ALL the Pontiac specialty engines including the ultra rare 427 and Ram Air V 400 and 303?
When I was a kid I scored a 66 421 Catalina, for the motor to put in my 1980 formula . Motor mounts didn't line up and metric power steering lines .got it in there and it was a tire frier. Sonoco 93 octane only . First trip on the highway it overheated . Had to cram a radiator from a 1977 gran prix in it.
I went to a car show as a kid in 1964 or 65 and the stunning centerpiece on a revolving stage was a gold Bonneville with mink stole carpeting.
Heat video Adam keep them coming!!!
I'd love to hands on experience all these.
Ain't nothing like a Pontiac
Owned A 65 2+2 Rag Top With The 421 2 Barrel Carter Carb. One Hell Of A Fast Car.
Had One Too, Yes It Was One Hell Of A Car.
Great video. I would like to see a video about manufacturers that have been eliminated since 2000 . Thanks.
Great vid!!!!👍👍
Wonderful cars
Ok, I learned something, I didn’t know the non-SD 421’s still got the forged rods. The thought of cast rods always gave me the shivers.
I think it was Tom Cross Motors in Ulysses, KS had a 61 421 SD on display until 1971. Some guy from NJ talked them out of it.
My dad street raced from 63-66 ( before he got drafted) and I recall him telling me that when the 421 came out, guys in Chicagoland were buying them otc to shoehorn into whatever they could get them in. 421s were known for breaking transmissions and U joints, because they had so much low end torque. The only Poncho we ever owned was a very used 70 Catalina Executive. That 1 had the std 400 2bbl with single exhaust but it was a real tire smoker when pressed and actually gave fairly good mileage for a full sized sled. I recall as a child that even in our worst winters, that car always started, 1/2 throttle pump, 3/4 crank and it was up and running. Sadly that car died due to a engine fire that seemed to be caused by a reputered fuel pump that sprayed gas all over the hot engine, in 1983. Dad said it looked like Christine...
SD 421 also had HP: ruclips.net/video/gNg569agwiU/видео.html
always liked the powertrain spec pages did see a few GP WITH 4SPEEDS 62 .67.
Pontiac had a race version of the 421 that used two 4 barrel carters with no idle circuit. The intake had a Corvair 2 barrel between the two 4 barrels for the idle circuit.
What was that h.p.?
@@unclebob7937 I don’t recall what the HP or the compression was. I’ll see if I can find the picture I have of this set up.
Dyno of a 1962 Super Duty Pontiac 421" engine (HP was way under rated):
ruclips.net/video/gNg569agwiU/видео.html
@@BuzzLOLOL it sure was. It’s only fall back was it could not turn a lot of RPMs, but for the most part it pushed some pretty big cars around quite quickly.
I had a 1963 Catalina 4 door hardtop with a 389 4bbl. It was hobbled by its "slim jim" transmission..
My dad had a '59 Catalina with a 421 shoehorned in- that car would haul!! Sadly, it was totalled when an oncoming driver had an epileptic seizure (his very first). My father escaped with a couple of broken ribs and little else WRT injury.
I love the dashes
The Pontiac in the print ad at the start of the video has DM 65-3 on its license plate. Is the 65-3 for stand for "1965 three two barrels?" If so, what was the DM for, Detroit, Michigan maybe ???
Certainly not GM (Detroit) Diesel 6V53...😁
A former governor of North Dakota had some 60s pontiacs in his collection and that's where I first heard of the 421 and a 2+2.
To me it all started in 1961 with the bubble top coupe. I think it was the first year for the 8-lug aluminum wheels too. A 61 Catalina coupe with 4-speed was not a car you wanted to call out on the street ... 😁
A super duty 389 was available in '60, although the term super duty was not used. In '56, the second year of Pontiac's V8, they produced a small number of the Strato-Streak 317 cid/ 285 hp screamers.
Dyno of 421 Super Duty: ruclips.net/video/gNg569agwiU/видео.html
Hey Adam, does your '66 Catalina have the "switch pitch" converter? Maybe that helps it feel peppier.
Nope. Pontiac didn't use it. Just Olds/Buick/Cadillac.
@@RareClassicCars Thanks Adam! 👍
I'd forgotten about the plastic timing gears . Like many others I replaced mine with a steel version in my 66 GTO .
Great video!
Ma Mopar also used photographs of engines in 1965 promotional material.
❤ Waiting for the Fiero review
Drop one in a 1963 LeMans, hell yeah.
No argument from me, as to the overall exceptional line-up of Pontiac engines in that era...But I will say, that the 430 4bbl V8 offered by Buick during the later 1960s was just as satisfying as the 421 Pontiac. And maybe more durable, as my Dad's 67 Buick wildcat, with that huge V8-listed at 360 hp, lasted well over 300,000 miles!...and I have read, where dragsters favored this V8 for it's ability to be "juiced " up, hp-wise! Whatever, all three big manufacturers offered some mighty potent engines back then!
It was hard to get big HP out of that earlier Buick nailhead engine design, reason for Buick going with Olds/Pontiac/Cadillac engine design about 1965... Chevy also dropped their Ford-derived 348/409 engines for same reason about then... Dyno of (under rated HP) Super Duty Pontiac 421" engine:
ruclips.net/video/gNg569agwiU/видео.html
Pontiac engines were all the same basic block from 326-421 (and later 400, 428 and 455). Whereas Buick or Chevy had to traverse 3 different basic blocks through the 60s and 70s. Chevy and Buick each had two different big blocks from the 50s and completely redesigned their big blocks by the mid 60s. Buick even had quite an evolution on their small block from 215-300/340-350.
As tested the Rochester Q-Jet performed better than the 3-2bbl setup.
I would believe that. Pontiac seemed to use 3 tiny 2v carbs, yet Rochester made 2v carbs for cars like the 455 Olds. If Pontiac had used 3 of those carbs, or maybe even only on the secondaries, I'll bet that they could have gotten way more power.
A few questions: What kind of fuel did these large "high output" V8s require? Did they require premium leaded? What was the octane rating? If running a vehicle like these today, what additives are needed to keep the engine running smoothly? Do these vehicles require ethanol-free fuel? Could any of these vehicles operate on 87-octane unleaded modern gasoline?
Old time leaded premium was commonly 110 octane. Also the low compression engines would run on modern 87 but a supply of ethanol free would be better. The old fuel systems can be damaged by ethanol.
The only problem with the 389 are the rear main seal .
They were rope type seal !
That was true of many American V8s at the time.
@@RareClassicCars yep !
I'm only going off of the History channel hour on Pontiac from the mid-90s. They said one of the years in the early '60s,while the Super Duty 421 was built. Pontiacs won 49 of 53 NASCAR races. At 8:19 I've heard & read that dual quad 13:1 421 in 1963 was more like 500 hp in reality
They were proud of what they made
Thanks for posting all the great information about Pontiacs. I read that Chevrolet division produced less than 1% big block engines for cars during the entire decade of the sixties. Do you know the percentage of big blocks Pontiac produced over the same period?
It was about 10% in full size cars.
@@RareClassicCars Thanks for the information. Do you know what percentage of Pontiacs were full size cars for the decade of the sixties? There is a persistent myth that all the cars of the sixties were giant gas guzzling monsters with huge engines and nobody cared how much fuel they burned because gas was cheap. That is not how I remember things. As I recall the average vehicle of the mid sixties burned less fuel than similar models of the mid-'50s or mid-'70s. A car from the '60s with a high-compression small block V8 and three speed automatic was peppy and gave decent gas mileage at the same time. A high compression big block was almost as efficent as a small-block if driven sensibly. Of course a few youngters did not drive sensibly and burned more fuel than necessary but that was not the car's fault. The vast majority of drivers at the time did drive sensibly and got reasonable fuel economy. Yhe "gas guzzlers of the sixties" myth is bunk.
We have a 66 wj 421 tripower in our 65 gto
the 389 and later, 455 were unique in that they weren’t big blocks but was the 421 a bigger block or was it visually the same block as the other two?
326-455 all the same block size