What's a fault indicator?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Hey Everyone!
I've been asked about these quite a few times now!
Fault indicators can certainly make your life easy when searching for the cause of an outage. We don't have a whole lot of them on our system, but it's something we're looking at using much more often. Especially after seeing these new units from Smart grid solutions! The technology is much more advanced and they're a lot easier to use than previous models we've tried out.
Made in Texas, USA!
Here's a link to their website:
smartgridsolut...
Big shoutout to Smart grid solutions for sponsoring and making this video possible! 👊👊
Cheers all!
** These video's are NOT intended for training or D.I.Y. Only properly trained and authorized personal are allowed to work on this equipment. Always adhere to work methods and procedures particular to the company you are working for. **
Be safe Everyone. Cheers! 🥂
Don't forget to drop a 👊 along with where you're watching
➡ / bobsdecline
#Bobsdecline, #Beingalineman, #Lineman
Good video. When I was first introduced to fault indicators I questioned how they sensed a fault vs normal high current loading. They work by rate of change, with a fault of course your current spikes and it's such a simple way for simple devices to detect faults by monitoring for a fast spike in current. The way they differentiate between a permanent fault and temporary fault is if after the fault if there is a return of current or not. (duh, of course)
Years ago, for us radio guys, they made a 'lightning strike detector' that mounted on the leg of a tower ... it would show a count, a count that incremented for every who knows how much pulse amperage occurred during the lightning current 'pulse' ... it makes sense they could do this on a power wire/line too.
You answered the question I was about to ask
@@uploadJ We have strike counters on the LAs (lightning arrestors) on our substation transformers and the big lightning towers that surround the launch pads at Kennedy Space Center have a lightning protection system that routes the lightning down through CTs and actually measures the current and duration of the lightning strikes!! Those white "candle sticks" on top of the towers are actually fiberglass to insulate the cantenary system from the conductive towers and the down guys on the towers have long ass string insulators to insulate the down guys from the anchors. Then at each down guy there is the down conductor that comes off the down guy and runs through a CT to do the actual measuring. Pretty interesting set up!
rate of change is one method that an FCI uses. The most prominent measure is level of current over time, like 800 amps for 30 milliseconds. A permanent fault (called a sustained fault) is defined as a high current event which yields an outage that lasts a minimum period of time, typically 1 minute, 3 minutes or 5 minutes, depending on jusrisdiction. If the time is less before power is restored then it is referred to as a momentary fault.
This is probably the most useful sponsored video I've ever seen. I think you presented this product in the best way it can be. As an industrial electrician, my HV experience is limited and these fault indicators are pretty amazing for the simplicity of the device.
love your videos man! I am an internet installer and work lower on the poles nice to know a little about what's above my head! lol
There's been a few outages in my neighborhood in the past year with the linemen always working in the same general area, and a few months ago I noticed that these had cropped up on the troublesome side of a normally-open nearby. Guess they got sick of always having to patrol the whole neighborhood for a fault that was reoccurring in the same place!
Years ago living in an area with underground service, the development lost power after dark. There were apartments on both sides of the street. I remember seeing a bunch of red lights going down the street at each of the boxes. I now know what it was! Thanks for the video!!
Could be. Or you saw all the TV Cable/Internet boxes with their red light on because they were running on backup batteries.
@@stargazer7644 That's what they were. Fault indicators for underground are inside splice boxes and transformer wiring compartments and said boxes need to be opened to check them.
@@randacnam7321did you not see the end of the video where he showed that they can mount the lights visible from outside the box?
Of course it is most likely that this person saw battery backups from the cable company.
@@napsterbater For all of the red lights to be fault indicators, the fault would need to be downstream in that particular primary.
And these remote indicator light fault indicators are not commonly used by a lot of utilities.
I've seen some of those in the Austn area, I was wondering what they were. Thanks for a very informative video.
I've never seen those on the Oncor system (DFW area), but they sure would be handy for field personnel ...
My brother used to work with our utility to program their smart fault indicators, that could report remotely. They deployed a mix of cellular and Tropos nodes, and from what I understand, the linemen and dispatchers found them very helpful. I want to say that they put out several thousand.
Evening Aaron and a very cool device and makes troubleshooting so much easier for you OH guys. They don't look that expensive and I'm sure they can be strategically placed in your system. Always something new coming out. Thanks for your presentation Aaron.
You know it's kind of funny where I live at in the great state of South Carolina if we get a sixteenth of an inch of snow they think it's a national disaster but I was originally born in Chicago Illinois Cook county so I know what real snow is 🥳🥳👷🔧🕺
I learned to drive in the northeast and it's pretty funny when we get the tiniest bit of snow or ice in the south... the 4x4 "mud trucks" and mall crawlers sliding all over the place as I drive along just fine in my rear-wheel-drive truck.
Freaking awesome hotstick shots!
bro your vids are the real side of a lineman, i am looking at being a lineman at 15, and you show how to problem solve and ever different thing you do, and you want me to do it more and more when i watch, thanks keep on make this good vids
If you're 15 and considering being a lineman, DO IT. I am 35, an engineer, and would skip college if I could do it all over again.
@@PsRohrbaughI agree with you! I am a fresh engineer, but definitely go through the technical route first, and if you want to get to the design and engineering aspect just learn your electrical fundamentals and you are set.
I love your videos. I work at a large hospital in our HVAC department so I work with 3 phase 480 volt a lot and I am near our large 12.5kv transformers and disconnects. We use a lot of power have have 6 substations in the basement along with 8 emergency generators that are very large.
YEAH HYI!
Interesting idea, never heard of them before. Do they have batteries to change or set lifespan or how's that work if it is flashing on an unpowered line? And how long could it continue indicating...hours? days? weeks?
I have noticed these before and always wondered what they were. Guess I learned something today!
I work in a cooperative, in Argentina, and we used the Kries fault detection and they are so good on case the failure sistem and very quicker to found the fault
I was a lineman for 30 yrs and they definitely work. Nice video, I just subscribed.
They had to install a bunch of fault indicators on the line's feeding my valley. 13 mile long leg, with only a single hot wire doing the entire valley. And we kept having blackouts weekly to eventually daily. So they put indicators everywhere along the line because they couldn't find the fault problem. They eventually narrowed it down to a handful of poles, and they gave up figuring out what it was then, and just replaced 6 poles in a row, and the problem is fixed. We have had so many power outs in this valley, they also installed a single line recloser on the line that feeds this valley.
Love your videos. I used to be IBEW, and getting to see your side of the house is incredibly appreciated. Keep it up, and keep posting your wonderful explanations of the day-to-day.
Very informative video, I have been curious about how the device is powered and reset. I wasn't aware different indicator colors could be an option. Have a good day!! 😀
Thanks for this video! I have watched our local electric company patrolling lines as fault indicators flashed away above, looking forward to a potential how it works video in the future.
Austin, TX representing!!!
As a trouble man in Ontario cool to see ur passion, we are going thru employees in the trade thank u for you tube videos
Thats really cool! I saw a fault indicator flashing orange on a 69kv transmission line in North Carolina a bit over a year ago. Lightning had struck the top phase of the transmission line and dissipated into the lightning arrester at the sub. Since where I was working was only about 1k feet away from the sub it actually fried the wifi router there and also in the house I was staying in lol
Not sure if it was through the DSL or if it was through the power lines, but I assume it was the same strike.
For lightning, the problem is often "ground" at your house 120V, being very different potential from gound at the far end of the telephone line. The insulation in the router and power supply ends up under a lot of stress and fails.
Very cool device. Any linemen in Europe that use devices like this? Never seen it here in Norway at least. Though most of the distribution grid is under ground around built up areas, and if not the lines just go in the woods most of the time, so not much is visible from the road. What you see near the road is a branch ending in a H(front view) / A(side view) type pole/tower with a transformer mounted up in it, or on the ground inside a cabinet.
I was always curious about Euro power distribution, we use a lot of overhead here in North America since at the distances we cover, underground can be very cost prohibitive.
@@crabmansteve6844 Cost is about the same for 22kV and below these days. Old lines that need replacing will be cabled 90% of the time if its on farmland or near built up areas. Proper cabled lines will last longer and have less faults over time as well. No need to worry about the elements.
Great Video! I hope you are having a good experience with the SGS units. I represent this product in the Midwestern US. I often have utilities ask why or how they would deploy FCIs on their system. I've sent out a link to your video a few times, but I've noticed when you talk about installing the UG device you warn about installing in on the semicon only. The SGS device can actually read accurately on the base of the elbow, semicon or over the neutral foldback as shown in the installation instructions. Thanks for doing what you do.
You didn't explain how fault indicators work. I kind of deduced that they must detect pulses of high current but it'd have been nice if you explained it. But surely there can be faults that don't result in a pulse of current?
Most (but not all) faults involve overcurrent.
I suppose they can also detect pulses of low current (open line). The specs said it can charge the battery when line current reaches 20 amps, that was interesting. I wonder how they handle solar panels downstream. Specs gave an upper voltage limit, curious, I don't know how it would be able to tell the line voltage.
How did the power company react to this demo? Did you need permission?
That overhead installation was on a ground line (I believe) - because you didn't have authorization to put it on a hot line?
Would the power co. go out for tender?
Thanks - enjoyed that.
Equipment like this doesn't go out for tender in the same way maintenance work does. Often times products and offers come in, but we choose them based more on quality and what's more tailored to our needs. Cost of course too.
Also yes, Used it on the neutral as a precaution... It's a demo device not designed for system use and while their products are all certified through appropriate agencies it hasn't gone though our methods team as of yet. sometimes a grey area, but better to err on the side of caution.
Good one bud!
That’s a super handy tool for sure! Could save a ton of effort, specially this time of year!
Cool stuff! Neat fiber optic idea as it's safe and effective.
I can see how this product could result in a potential (and well known) trap of the bean counters: they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. It seems to reason that the initial outlay of cash to equip your utility company's entire grid with these units would be recouped several times over by reducing the man power cost and increasing the diagnosis speed of a fault (and lost revenue cost of electricity sales due to extended diagnosing speed without the units).
Very interesting video as always!
This channel has an indescribable value lol. I always find something I didn't know I wanted to know
these look fun to install in a wooden box with a hole and label "DO NOT INSERT FINGER" as bait for someone to insert their finger in
are they powered by the line or are they battery powered or both? edit: guess it is both, lithium primary cell backup for the line voltage
only halfway through the video but would you be able to do a teardown of 1 to show how they work?
Instructions show the overhead line clamp version can recharge the internal Li-Ion batts if line current is sufficient, there is a figure shown there in the literature/brochure from the factory ...
You have the clout to make it happen 😁
Awesome video! I'd never heard of these things before either! Thanks!!
Good to know. I'll keep an eye out for these guys. I've noticed that around my parts it is quite common to have an ADSS fiber cable on (below) transmission lines. Is that strictly used for communication between substations, or could it also be used to collect other troubleshooting data? Thank you.
Neat stuff. I am not a lineman and I don't want to be one (scared of heights), but I love learning about it with your videos.
This isn't my day jobs but I'm always fascinated by clever devices. Parasitic power from the line, battery backup and as other posts mention detect faults by rapid rate of current change and in the case of autoclosers whether or not power was restored.
I love fault indicators. I call them dingle berries.
Love your clear good focus videos. When I was very little, I used to lie on the back seat of our car and look up at the passing overhead cabling. My electrical engineer father answered my questions and I figured out how the MEN system worked. Most exiting time was when salty water got onto cross arms and slow arcing went on for hours, low priority repair as other areas were more critical. But sometimes the salt got into the cable running down the post and underground. Then we would have fountains of molten copper and flames shooting high into the air. After a while there would be a series of loud bangs from the nearest transformer as the fuses blew. Thank you for showing the spec sheet, charging the lithiums via CT was great.
Thanks Hello Fresh for sponsoring this... wait. Wuuuut?? Reset. Reset. Fault indicated!
no doubt very very dangerous job , these guys are heroes
I can imagine that they could shave off an hour or more of trouble shooting time, even more in very rural settings.
For several years I wondered what the globes were for on the power lines. Now I know. Thank you for the video.
“Anywheres”. Lol. East coast much? 😊
Good video! I just noticed these on each phase on the overhead primary that runs north of our subdivision. I probably wouldn't have noticed them without watching you video. Keep up the good work!
Hah that's pretty neat! I'm hoping to get more of them on our system. Thanks for the comment! 👊
Great video and explanation of FCI’s. I work for a company that represents SEL FCI’s in the maritimes and in the states. They are a huge time saver in locating faults. Thanks!
What a neat way to help locate the cause of a Power Failure! "Outages" are planned, and therefore their cause is known. I'd never heard of such a device as this.
Always wondered what Those did I heard they light up but still didn't understand, Thank you so much!
It would be nice if they could communicate with your dispatch and let them know when and where a outage is
Ahhh ... the S&C Electric Intelliruptors do that, but the cost is a lot, lot more ...
Just need to add a few chips and a sim card to the design. Could report back real time info and monitoring
@@hsimpson7267Or even better, a LORAWAN transceiver.. No cellular coverage required, except for the odd base station every 5-10 km or so.
I like the idea of this! Seems to be safer in the grand scheme of things.
That thing should say "assembled in USA". Bet a buncha parts were manufactured elsewhere.
Theres a hit song from 1968 by country singer glenn campbell, couldnt get it out of my head, titled ...wichita lineman
Have you ever come across powerline/smart meter modules they hang to measure illegal power draw ? BC Hydro utilizes these. It would be cool if you could cover this in a feature video. Stay Safe.
It's been a month now that you showed us these and I'm seeing them everywhere in my county. It seems that they are installing them on one side of a 13.2 KV pole switches. Makes perfect sense for this.
We had a pretty extensive power outage the other week and I saw red flashing lights on the lines near my house after the power company trucks had been driving back and forth for a good few hours. I assumed they were something like this, but they seem to only put them up during troubleshooting and take them down once utility is restored.
I've seen red flashing lights on power lines before, apparently. Overhead 3 phase pole after a storm. All three wires had a little red light blinking. I thought it was fire or something else as I was quite young at the time. I've heard of these a good while ago, but haven't really seen a good in-depth look at their functions before.
What is the upper clamp on the fault detector? Is it just for grabbing and opening the main clamp or does it have another purpose?
Oh, I like the Blinky lights. Yes I wish there was a bunch of those out here so never something stupid happens. I know it’s those things look great during Christmas time. Ha ha ha yes my question is how did you get his power to flash is an internal battery that stays constantly charge by picking up energy from the line that is connected to or do you have to recharge them them
Hi Bob. Great channel. Do you work for NSP by any chance?
How does one become a linesman in New-Brunswick? Im an electrician in Fredericton and thinking a lot about switching to that career!
i wish apprenticeships where still a thing, fur room and board ide give you six years for paid on job training then right to work.
Another awesome video Aaron!! Glad to see you’re well! We’re just recovering from an ice storm from hell last week, lines, poles, and trees down everywhere!
Thanks Jer' I see ur still fishing tho! Hahha . You doing any work with the outages/ restoration?
@@Bobsdecline yeah we’re back into spring until Friday when it snows again so had to get out and fish! I helped with some residential clean up like trees on houses and cars, did some fiber repairs but that’s about it, directional boring class tomorrow with Vermeer though!
Man that sounds like our weather! We went from -45 one day to +10 two days later lol🤦♂️.
Directional boring, that sounds like some some good training to have! We use it quite a bit here, but it's always contracted out... I've never done it myself
@@Bobsdecline yeah we build the manholes, do a lot of excavation, and directional boring so I’m excited, already been behind the sticks but the owner still wants me to go to the Vermeer school, I’m not gonna complain about it!
What does the flashing yellow / white / green / red light on the bottom or top of the traffic control boxes or the CATV boxes mean ?
I see these all the time
Some times they are off, usually they are off
Some times they are on solid, once in a great while they will be flashing
I have called Emergency Services several times when I saw them flashing where they never had done it before, but they had no clue either what it means
There was no outage of power or cable or traffic lights when they were flashing
It didn't appear that anything was wrong, but it has to mean something or it wouldn't be flashing
A few of them over the years I saw on solid all the time and those were always humming loudly
But I have never found any information about what they are for
😊
Are they putting something like LORA for remote monitoring into these fault monitors?
It's not ideal but I have put fault indicators on with long stick
I’m sure it’s been asked, but where does ‘bobsdecline’ come from?
So that's what those eyeball things are on the side of padmount transformers around here.
Thank you for the efforts to share with us these valuable informations ❤
In some marriages, a wedding ring is a fault indicator.
So I'm guessing it's an inductive pickup that charges an internal battery/capacitor, and lights when it senses the current stop like a plug in nightlight? Also @7:09 it looks like the hook loop is cracked or starting to crack, what's the designed number of installation/removal cycles?
Kind of, but a bit more complicated...
If it lot when current stopped, it would light up with any power outage. It has to detect a sudden large increase in current.
There's no real set amount of recommend uses. Most times they'll be installed and untouched. You could also have a set that's moved around and used to help find a nuisance problem on the lines.
I paused the video there and see what you're looking at. I think it's just a reflection in the plastic, but I'll definitely check the unit when I jump in my truck tomorrow.
@@Bobsdecline cool, thanks for clarifying! Also thank you for taking the time to teach, I really appreciate it.
re: "it's an inductive pickup that charges an internal battery/capacitor,"
I do see where the company brochure does mention Li-Ion batteries, so ...
Two internal cells would power it for 20 years as per spec sheet.
Is structure the proper term in the utility industry for pole?
I think it was more than aboooooooot 2400 customers
I hope one day you get on the Powerline Podcast
Wow there was no devider in that pad tranny
Very useful product 👌
Looks like a double mouse trap.
Sure appreciate your videos! But I have an unrelated question:
Does a meter read (and then bill) the HIGHEST amp, or the ACTUAL usage between L1 and L2?
So, if a house is drawing a perfect balance between L1 and L2, lets say at 20 amps each, vs. L1 pulling 40a and L2 with 0a. Does the meter bill out @ 20a on the first example and 40a on the second?
Thanks so much for the consideration : )
Actual usage! 🙃
Some meters however also measure VA's as opposed to watts.
A bit tricky to explain, but to try and make it simple; the power supplied vs the power used is not always equal. This unbalance occurs with inductive or capacitive loads.
Most companies do not bill the customer for this imbalance.
Industrial customers however are different (sometimes).
A highly inductive factory can be quite costly having to generate the extra power. In those cases the customer may have to cover the costs of power losses. That's why it's important for a customer in that case to have capacitors to offset the inductive load.
Also most commercial customers are bill for peak power used. Residential customers don't typically have huge start up loads, so we can better standardize the equipment and wire size.
A large industrial customer may have a huge draw on start up. Regardless of average power used, the system must be built to withstand that peak load.
Probably about as clear as mud.. ut there's a lot to metering.
Thanks so much. I’ve wondered about that for a long time - not something easy to search for. (BTY: I’ve lived in Ontario a year and Alberta for 5, but now in Connecticut! Just a backyard electrician lol.)
Interesting. I haven't seen these devices here in Upstate NY. My guess is they are outrages in price for what they are. If your company were to use them I would recommend dating them so you know when the end of life is via your computer management system, obviously with a assigned company identifier number/location. Thanks for the demo. very interesting.
An interesting and informative video. Please be careful about using your industry's technical lingo, because many of your viewers are not in the electrical industry. I'm still trying to figure out what "CT" means. Also, it would be interesting to know the approximate cost of this device - is it a $50 part, or a $500 part?
Appreciate the comment!
CT - Current transformer. They typically read current that has been reduced by the device to a lower more manageable level. High current could easily melt small wires normally used in metering equipment.
These devices operate at a fixed ration; example 400:5.
If the device reads 5 amp the line current wilould be 400 amp.
In this case the device uses a CT to read the current and supply the reading/information to operate.
Totally my bad, as I should have included a few minutes to explain how it operates as well. Perhaps a good topic for another video? - how does a fault indicator work!
@@Bobsdecline The 10.9Ah and 2.4Ah battery spec is wrong, they must mean Wh, there just isn't enough volume in the large indicator to house 10.9Ah of LiIon in there... 10.9Wh/3.6V=3Ah, so one high capacity 18650, that seems more reasonable. (underground version 700mAh). For such a quality product, the gross error in the spec sheet is a bit disappointing... :(
Ahh, I assumed CT to be centre tap of the transformer.
@@jovangrbic97 I'm sure it _is_ Ah. These are primary lithium cells, not rechargeable lithium ion. According to a Varta databook a 2.4Ah CR AH-R cell is only 9.5 cubic centimeters, so 10Ah should be about 40 cc. That's pretty small.
@@eDoc2020 indeed a 12.5Ah lithium battery is only 1 inch diameter and 4 inches long. You can of course get them in shorter variants with larger diameter as well.
There are also FCIs that go on the test points of elbows on the UG. Some of the FCIs will flash 1 colour for a fault and a different colour for a bump and finally there are also smart FCIs that tell the operators that the fault is passed them.
While driving around my area, I've noticed at least 5-10 of these on our 13.2 KV feeders in the air. WE will definitely start seeing more of them installed.
very cool video.
I wonder how the fault indicators are powered. Do they siphon a tiny bit of power to charge batteries or supercaps or something?
And just got to the end of the non-replaceable lithium cell. a 2400mA non-rechargeable.
For an always-on device, that's some seriously low current draw in standby mode.
There was some very good design work that went into this, craft, people choosing to do things of high quality because quality matters to them.
I work in safety-critical areas, mostly focused on medical devices, and it's something that I've noticed is that there is a reason that we do these things, and it's because we save lives, we improve quality of life for others.
It's important to us.
it says "Accuracy +/- 10%" ... 10% of what?
Current reading; where is not a metering/measurement device, exact reading are not necessary.
CFI's are usually installed on mainlines where current changes constantly. If you were monitoring the current live, you would see it bounce from 300A to 280A then maybe to 310A all within seconds.
(As the hundreds of dozens of homes are constantly having devices turn on and off).
The exact reading is not important to the device, as it monitors for a sudden and drastic increase in current.
I had never seen one before. I used to see a little light on actual pole transformers running a service to a house but don't think they still use them. I don't remember what the reason was why they used them back then. If anyone knows let me know please. Anyway Mr. Bob thanks for the video
Very nice. 😜👍
Is that device approved for use by your power co? If not, and it's just purely a sample for testing, could you get in trouble for doing this? I know there's no risk, but it seems most companies are very anal about things like this. Just curious, not pointing fingers 😁
I think that’s why he tested it out on the neutral and didn’t install it on the primaries
@@linehandibew6205 For sure, I get that part, I was just thinking that many companies are paranoid about having anything near their equipment that isn't approved (which is silly, but rules are rules)
💯! Great point/question really... As LinehandIBEW said; that's why it was installed on the neutral and not on live u/g cable also. The device and info has all been passed along to our methods and engineering departments
@@Bobsdecline Thanks for the reply. Maybe someday these will have cellular or wifi tech to help make your job even easier!
The impedance and reactance added by these is negligible, as well as the current draw, so the only thing you are really altering is the line weight and its mechanical characteristics. The cost imposed by line loading by these little devices is far outweighed in savings for man hours and reduction of outage times. It wont be long until these are networked with reclosers and you can just pull a span section up on your GIS to find a fault.
I've actually always wanted one of those just because I think they are neat looking, but it's cool to know how they work
0:57 saw one like that but like a typical bucket truck get stuck in mud.
Fault indicators are very interesting.
OHIO
Can you buy 'em on ebay
"a fairly large outage affecting 2400 customers" that's some perspective. I live in a subdivision in Florida with a single entrance / exit road. There are 650 houses in it. Across the street is a similar subdivision. There are twenty just like it as you continue on down the road.
Nice to see this comment... It's something that crossed my mind everytime I say "large outage" when a couple thousand are out.
When we get hit by a major storm and see 100k home without power it's bad...very bad. Then I'll google outages from nearby states and see 800k or over a mill!
@@Bobsdecline The reality is "number of customers" probably isn't the best way to think about outages - number of spans, square miles, or some other metric is probably better. 2400 customers IS a large outage for you, it's just that the same amount of grid would probably cover 24,000 people where I live 😂
Yes exactly!
Awesome troubleshooting tool thanks for the knowledge
not a lineman but found this very interesting to watch
Fault indications are very good idea.....
I love your videos I’m finishing up my last year in the military and am looking at becoming a lineman and your videos give a great inside look at being a lineman. Any advice for a rookie would be great! Especially on what kind of boots your would recommend for climbing?
Carolinas aren't bad for the money
I wonder how they handle lightning..
I love the “a-bout” - 😂❤😂
Ingenious piece of kit.
so that is what is likely mounted to 3 phase lines that go underground somewhere in the area or power comes from underground at that point i dont know i all i know is i see something like this on each phase
Pretty good chance! Great spot to have em, going in/out of underground feeds.