I was surprised you didn't make mention of the plan with Godfrey! It would be interesting to look at her intentions as stated with Godfrey, that she wanted the Tarnished to die and return, and Godfrey would have been uniquely positioned to do what she wanted - ie, wield a god-killing weapon to kill her. Her husband, whom she clearly respected, maybe even loved.
Have you considered that the Erd Tree was fueled by first the founding wars with the Dragons and then subsequent war with the Fire Giants? They both give an enormous amount of runes so perhaps their runes and spirits served as fertilizer. This idea of war and death sending powerful souls to the Erd Tree is supported by this "Hero's Rune: There were once heroes who walked the battlefields, abundantly blessed by the Erdtree itself, who upon earning their honor simply died."
We all know that Marika was just angry that the only bed she was given was a massive stone slab with a single sheet. The constant backpain was enough to make her want to destroy the whole order.
@@nezumixp6744 Perhaps she never slept inside the tree? Maybe when she was imprisoned the tought might have been "meh, give her a bed made of stone, that'll teach her to not destroy things!"
Marika's character and intentions have always been the thing I was most curious about in the story. Thanks for giving us such a well thought out take, I really appreciate it!
Red Gold is not just red Gold. “Red Gold” is a name often used to refer to copper. “Red tinged gold” is just a way to say “orange”, which is a word that never appears in-game since the word did not yet exist.
I think it definitely refers to a red tinted gold. The idea that the old world was red rather than gold comes up a bunch. The crucible knights, the dragon lightning, and a bunch of other references.
See I think about that a lot and the idea that before Marika there wasn’t written language. In Marika’s time there’s a sense of order, everything has its place and ever place has its things and yet the crucible seems too wild. So what best to do than give it a general stamp of “just ok” and proceed to refine it into the countless little pieces that made up the Golden Order.
Thank you for the tremendous amount of Elden Ring content you've created these past months! Your analysis and attention to detail are truly impressive. Better than so many and worth every penny.
Dude, I've been heavy on Fromsoft lore since Bloodborne came out.. You are clearly the best lorehunter around here. I think you surpassed Vaaty and the others because how deep and logical your investigations and theories goes. Thanks for the work and for sharing those really insightful ideas with us.
Vaati is definitely more of a sparknotes. He's good at giving the core concepts of the lore, but I love the depth of this channel. I almost always agree with Vaati's takes. I don't agree with some of SmoughTown's theories. I feel like they are more out there and take more risks, at least I felt that way with a lot of his ds1 theories (Plot against the Gods). Still, I love the creativity and the incredible amount of thought in some of these videos.
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 Hard agree. Vaati makes very qualitative videos, but the actual lore he covers is not that in-depth ( and, to be honest, most of the stuff can be understood from the item descriptions)
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 Vaaty was the best until around 2017, he was really neat as compiling (and stealing) other peoples theories. But smoughtown was always really deep in the lore of each games, and was always really open to new theories, I think that made the change. Now Vaaty and some others are just trying to capitalize on their past fame, Smoughtown is still trying to decypher the story. and I deeply appreciate that mentality.
It occurs to me that "Eternal" maybe an epithet for "Numen". This would also explain why Marika and Nokron share the same adjective. "Marika the Numen" and "The Numen City" would work equally as well and link the two together nicely. Assuming, of course, that was the intent behind the writing/translation.
This connection would also further solidify the idea that Radagon was produced by means of a Mimic Tear, as Nokron is where the research of mimics was strongest.
And it seems rather obvious too. Eternal means long lasting, and the description for the Numen race is “long lived but seldom born.” I also like the fact that Marika is not truly eternal (as the frenzy and Ranni ending shows), so the title of “Eternal” could just a title of birthplace. “Marika, the Eternal” can be read as “Marika, of the Eternal City” in the same way that you could call me “Jack, the American.”
i love this theory, but i think the nox and the numens are not related, i think its more likely that the nox come from the astrologers, for a lot of reasons, mainly their giants, the carian and eternal cities coat of arms (which you can see every time you cast a spell of that factions) having common elements (which in heraldry means usually common origins) and a little place called selia
@@jackweaver1846 Eternal doesnt mean 'long lasting' though...like...not in any dictionary, not in a basic check of the search engine of your choice...what seems obvious is you dont know what eternal means.
@@Necrotaku999 i actually think they are related based on how advanced the nox were with engineering, and you can see that Marika and Radagon engineer and innovate new things into the lands btwn ( she was a highly favored numen it appears as well, could be because of innovative skills and charisma). It also could explain why godwyn and miquella seemed to be the favorite children because of their character traits. I think alot of the lore that smough touched on in the eternal cities videos talk about how the nox could've been inspired or mentored by the numen and Marika creations once she was was a vassal.
Perhaps Radagon came to be the first time Marika felt doubt about her faith in the Erdtree? A version of her still loyal and unquestioning of the Greater Will manifested in reaction to the doubt she felt upon realizing that the flame of the giants could never truly be put out, no matter how much force she threw at it. Thus explaining why this split manifested with red hair? A representation or reminder of her own insecurities Great video, by the way. So in-depth and insightful!
if your Into any of the soulsborne lore you should check out silver mont,redgrave,jerksansfrontiers,aegon of astora,and of course smoughtown,hawkshaw,Mitch L,and channel yoshimitsu who actually translates the original Japanese texts of the games so it gives it a unique perspective,but my favorite of all time Redgrave,who never got the recognition he deserved,vaatividya plaigerised his work and it was a pretty big thing in the souls community but redgrave still never got his due. redgrave wrote a book called the paleblood hunt theres an audio book version of it on youtube and it's one of the most in depth genius analysis of souls story explaining some of the deep unknown and unexplained nuiances of the bloodborne story.
I promise I’m not saying your videos are boring but your lore videos have become my sleep meditation. I have always struggled to sleep and some nights would be sleepless. But elden ring being a game I enjoy and a game who’s story I want so badly to understand your videos have become a nightly routine of mine. It’s not something that requires me to actively look at to understand. I can lay down, set my phone down and just listen. I learn more about the story while also being distracted from my worries so I can actually relax. I can finally get sleep now. Of course I come back and listen to what I missed. Thank you for giving me something that works, and thank you for doing what you do. Keep up the amazing content man. You’re doing fantastic.
@@SmoughTown My guy, didn't disappoint! Amazing video, super insightful and in-depth as always.. Elden Ring has the best lore imo and your videos are the best at explaining it, you really are SmoughTown the all knowing! Keep at it, can't wait for the upcoming content (like holy shit we have dragons, crucible, godrick, everything renalla and glintstone related despite a lot being covered in the primeval current video and a lot more for sure..)
Dude, this is a masterpiece. Not only do you make informed theories as a base to your argument but also take into account multiple POVs to challenge and, at times, strengthen your thought process. Elden ring on its own was a monumental event in my life but you and other lore creators took that same experience into an intelectual level that heightened the material as a whole. Much gratitude sent on your way.
Also I really respect how much you give nods to other creators in the community and just how freaking thorough you are. You're criminally undersubbed imo, the idea of the mycelium network associated with the tree is fascinating, I gotta watch that too now. 🤣
My thoughts on what Marika says about her children is that maybe after coming to understand that even as a God she's replacable, that she still wants her children to achieve some level greatness of their own, and not be pawns to others.
When I started Elden Ring, I swore I'd never get into the lore. It was so abstract and I didn't want to invest. Now I've watched like ten of your videos and rewatched a few. Looking forward to this one, and thanks for all you do!
@@Dangerman-zg3ui honestly the only reason i'm still interested in Elden Ring. FOr me personally it didn't live up to the overall hype media and my own.
I noticed a lot people miss the fact that a Black Knife is sitting right outside Marika's bedchamber. There is some definite connection between Marika and the Black Knives.
The black knives was an order of women assassins created by Ranni the Witch, who threw away her destiny and flesh to oppose the golden order. The black knife assassin stationed near Marika's bedchamber was most likely placed there to prevent anyone else from accessing the Erdtree, mending the Elden Ring, and further continuing the Greater Will's reign.
@@WillowProductions actually, I've watched a few lore videos that lay out how the black knives killed iji and Blaidd on their own and not at Ranni's behest.
Phenominal video! Your approach about Radagon and Marika was inspiring! What if Radagon is a reflection her mind and body at a time when she was a fervent believer? The red hair a memory of a time when she felt unstoppable, an internalized association. He is the "glory days" of eternally flowing conviction. Opposite Radagon is Marika. While Radagon feels believing HARDER and minmaxing faith solves all, Marika is wallowing in doubt. She's not brought a new age. Those touched by Grace suffer yet, and her decisions as Marika and Radagon both bring only more suffering. She is burdened, cursed. She attempts to break her yoke but part of her cannot let go of the past. What is left is denial in the form of Radagon while her accursed god, confirming and affirming her faithlessness, waits for a tarnished to put her back in a place of service to it. It's even more horrifying than I could have imagined.
cheers for making these lore videos man, they’re always a treat to watch and think about, the quality of them is honestly baffling at the rate you upload them. Can’t wait to see what this one entails!
Amazing video as always Smough. And as always I have some comments to add. Regarding the Erdtree being disconnected from it's roots could be related to fact someone else has infested them. Godwyn, or rather the Prince of Death, has parasited the roots and thus expanded the influence of death around the Lands Between by directly causing growths around the world. I think it wouldnt be weird to assume perhaps the erdtree disconnected itself from the roots to avoid allowing destined death to influence it's very core. Also, ass you said, the disconnection hints that Erdtree Burrial no longer works, and this could perhaps help with figuring out why people who received Erdtree Burrial have been unable to return and remain as Spirit Ashes. The way to the tree has been cut off it seems, so they just linger in ash waiting. Also another thing to mention is that Red lightning is directly stated to be "primeval" in the Dragonking's Cragblade. There is also a very interesting detail about Red Lightning being different from Golden One. That being that golden lightning is sort of created through your seal and then you then utilise it by throwing it, be it on your enemies or yourself. Meanwhile red lightning is never created by you, but instead summoned from the heavens, which then falls into your hand and you are able to wield it like a weapon. This is even true for ancient dragons, as they too do not generate the lightning from themselves. However, there is a certain dragonlord who to my knowledge is the only one capable of generating Red Lightning into his hands without it needing to be summoned from the sky, even in his Bolt of Gransax Nuke attack. Furthermore, the Cragblade in general seems to be part of Placidussax (it may actually be a reference to DS tail weapons as his tail is actually missing), and the cragblade is said to "contain primeval lightning". So perhaps it is something that is an integral part of his body. Oh also, gold is an extremely good conductor of electricity, and Ancient Dragons seem to be made of gold underneath their stony skin, particularly Placidussax. Just food for thought. I can't wait for the next video, cheers mate!
Hey dude, thanks for the thoughtful comments; great point re the Dragons being conductive! Glad you also agree with the root disconnection = erdtree burial no longer working as intended. Glad you enjoyed
@@SmoughTown You expect a dude called Dragon to not over-analyse dragons? You fool! (God I spent way too much time on them, probs my second favourite topic after the history of glintstone and sorcery)
You can't tell if Gransax was able to generate lightning because he is long dead by the time the main storyline begins and the Bolt of Gransax does have a bolt of lightning drop from the sky before you can hurl it. Its very fast and you have to pane your camera up to spot it. Even Vykes Dragonbolt requires him to get hit by the lightning to gain the buff. The only thing in the game that appears to be able to actually spawn the red lightning espontaneously is Placidusax frontal cleave.
@@Hemestal "Bolt of Granssax nuke" refers to Placidusax' massive AOE attack, the one that stops the OST for a few seconds, which originates from a construction of lightning conjured by Placidusax and that ressembles the Bolt of Granssax. It otherwise has nothing to do with Granssax
Also, if the removal of the Rune of Death was when Erdtree burials stopped to work, that would mean they never worked at any point during the Golden Order.
That ending transition made me realize something. Marika is depicted in her statues as having two braids, one on each side of her face. But the Marika we see inside the Erdtree only has one that also serves as Radagon’s when the transformation occurs.
Holy shit, coming back to this after the DLC, that is CRAZY attention to detail. Considering we know she cut her second braid off to leave at home in her village of shamans
I mean, the Numen are pretty remarkable craftsman as well - between the semi-invisible Black Knife sound-canceling armor as well as Marika’s rune-breaking hammer. And tbh the idea that the Numen are the descendants of the Nox is interesting and relatively fitting.
The fact that they could craft a hammer that could shatter an outer god's physical being is proof enough of their genius. Like Hewg said, "A god is not easily felled."
Having a rough day and was very happy to see this to help me through it. You're easily my favorite of the lore channels, your Blasphemous stuff is unmatched. Thank you for all your effort
Thanks man! All in all, just a tedious and long work day, but I get some time in to enjoy this while I work. Still have half left for later tonight so I can say I certainly appreciate the long form video. I agree with a lot of what you posit here.
The fact that you put so much love and effort into these breakdowns, and additionally credit all of the content creators that inspired your thought process, says so much about your character. Thanks for what you do for the ER community 🤙
If Radagon is an alter ego of Marika, brought forth by her ascension to godhood and vessel to the Elden Ring, I find it so interesting that she'd call him "leal hound of the Golden Order". Hound. Like Maliketh, a creation of the Greater Will forged to keep her in check
The idea he is proposing is not that he is an alter ego of her, but literally a second person who was fused into her. If this did happen at the beginning then I'm sure she would see Radagon as a hound in her side since by the end she was so done with the Greater Will.
You're an amazing lore hunter, and write scripts which are very easy to follow without sacrificing quality or context. Also, you are always all too happy to shout out others looking into the same info, and to encourage collaboration and discussion. Thank you for all your hard work. Watching your videos is always a delight.
42:37 Removing the Rune of Death having an impact on the Erdtree seems not that plausible to me, for the reason that all those depictions of a perfect Erdtree are from the Golden Order, which is defined as starting with the Rune's removal. Maybe it was in another state before the Golden Order, but the upright, intact Erdtree is the post-Death removal Erdtree. Also, if, for the entirety of the Golden Order, Erdtree burials didn't work, that would have been noticed. But the burials seem to have started to fail far later, or we would have ghosts of people who lived in all the Golden Order.
I concur. I think the broken cycle of reincarnation is simply a product of the shattering and the resulting disfunctional Erdtree. That would be the most logical conclusion.
Finally, someone acknowledges the very likely possibility that Placidusax’s Outer God was the Greater Will itself! Kudos man. I would also add that maybe the Greater Will was the first god to colonise the land. Maybe the world was originally all blended in the Crucible (the One Great), then the Greater Will dropped the Elden Ring above it and it caused the separation of all things. This ‘birthing trauma’ will later cause all suffering and a set of Fingers will unthinkably rebel against their god. This could also be why five fingers are considered a sign of higher intelligence and thus order to this day (humans, ancient dragons and beastmane all have five fingers), but the Fingers themselves are divided between sets of two and three, forever marred by that ideological rift. I also completely agree that there was a considerable gap between the dragons’ reign and the Erdtree’s age. I think that for a time the land was in a similar state of shattering as we see in the game, with the Greater Will’s influence greatly reduced, giving all manner of outer gods to foster their cults and civilisations in a bid to take over the Lands Between. Also, the Elden Ring must have been shattered before to have so drastically decreased in size compared to the one represented in Farum Azula. That must be why Marika had to contend with another empyrean bearing the Rune of Death, which in the meantime had probably been appropriated by the God of the Twinbird/the Helphen. This would also imply that Godfrey would have had a similar role to the player in the game, that not all former great runes have been retrieved (which is possible, as shown in the game) and that Marika felt only Maliketh should or could retrieve Destined Death, given her dubious plans for it. Now though all empyreans have turned their backs on the Greater Will, or maybe the Greater Will got tired and finally abandoned the world. This leaves the Tarnished to attempt a botched recreation of the one method that’s been proven capable of repairing the Elden Ring before, which would explain why Enia expects us to ‘offer’ the Great Runes to Marika, the only god/empyrean hopefully still under the Greater Will’s influence, or why Ranni’s ending is the only one where a totally new order can be established. Sad how the Two Fingers were too bonkers to see the irony in all this before we find the way into the Erdtree barred by thorns.
Yeh I absolutely agree and doing this video has whet my appetite for doing a video on the GW's influence on the land and life, starting with the One Great (I did have this chapter but had to cut!)
@@SmoughTown Thank you for replying, I appreciate! I really look forward to that video, I’m sure it’ll be awesome. In particular, I’m really inclined to believe that the One Great is a name the Three Fingers use to refer to the land before the arrival of the Elden Beast and Ring and that they’re saying the Greater Will made a mistake in ordering reality in general, rather than something specific. Anyway, love your content, truly. I discovered you with Blasohemous, I’d really love to hear your thoughts on the final DLC in the future, if you’ll ever feel like it. Cheers!
@@Pizzifrizzo Hey my pleasure, I really appreciate you watching and engaging! I agree, I believe the One Great was how everything was before the 'creation' of disparate life, and the three fingers believe everything should have remained as it was!
Placidusax's outer god has no choice but to be the greater will. Since the Elden Ring was made by greater will and Placidusax was elden lord. Being Elden Lord is a title exclusive to those who are consort to a God that houses the Elden ring. In contrast to the Lord of Chaos which corresponding to Frenzy flame or the Lord of Night which corresponds to the age of the stars.
If Placidusax serves the Greater Will, why on earth would he be waiting for the return of his god beyond time? His god would then still be active in the Lands Between. Why would the dragons have fought the Golden Order if they serve the same order? I feel like this causes more problems than it solves.
Im surprised you didnt mention it but the fact that the Erdtree and the Crucible are two bodies fused into one just like Marika and Radagon is pretty interesting
The fact that this all goes so deep on something that's not outright told directly to us is incredible. Elden ring is written so carefully and beautifully. Huge props to FromSoft and their writers for such a fascinating world.
By far and away my favorite elden ring video. Excellent details, citations, and minimum speculation. Definitely one of the better lore creators, Smough. Keep up the good work.
This one really convinced me that she's actually a good person. I always wondered why she wasn't the one to fight us at the end but this makes alot of sense. Also you kept saying you didn't want to bloat the video too much but you can throw as much info as you want to make your points in the video and I'll always watch them no matter how long. Great job dude.
@@jefferyschroeder3104 How do you figure that? She literally views her children as objects and may have orchestrated her son's death just to strike at the Greater Will. These are the actions of an abhorrent person.
I am so fascinated by the Crucible. I concur that the creatures in the reliefs do appear to be Misbegotten. Their oversized round heads are so distinct to them, I have a hard time perceiving any ambiguity there. Also, what is up with the Leonine Misbegotten having red hair? It's such a rare trait, I can't help but question what the connection might be. We know the red wolves are related to Radagon, given almost all of them are present in places directly tied to Carian Royalty. But I have not seen anyone explore the relationship to the Leonine except briefly with regard to the one bearing the Golden Order Greatsword. Did Radagon have a relationship to the Crucible? Did Marika seek the primordial power of the Crucible in order to manifest Radagon? It's so fascinating to think about. I recently observed that the tail portion of the Elden Beast very much resembles Radagon's rune. I suspect that could be how Marika drew him out of herself, removing that Rune segment. As a component of the Elden Ring, he then can exist as her but physically distinct. When you can see the Elden Ring inside the crumbling Radagon, it looks just like the Elden Beast in flight. And during the Elden Beast fight, the way the tail tendrils overlap when it's in flight create a pattern that strongly echoes the diagonal lattice of Radagon's rune.
The questions re Radagon are excellent ones and ones I pondered myself making this, I decided the best course of action was to focus on Marika and later do a video on Radagon and go deeper on him.
Radagon's hair color is super interesting, i think there is some merit to it actually being a curse of the Fire Giants. Not only is Radagon depicted with blond hair in game and in trailers, but the guy should've been alive during the war of the giants, right? If so him believing that his red hair is due to a curse might be factual, since he might have seen his hair color change.
@@arcanefire7511 some theories in reddit stated dat the Giant's curse was inflicted onto Marika. When Radagon initially split for the war against the Carian family, she imparted dat curse onto him... Just a theory tho sorry, I dont hav the link for the full theory scope from reddit
i always thought the shattering and repairing of the ring happened at different times, cool to think of them vying for control of a body while simultaneously repairing and shattering the elden ring
When I think of the last fire giant being left alive to carry the curse, it reminds me of father ariandel being used to keep the painted world going. Sister Friede and Marika both do necessary ruthless actions to keep their worlds going. This works within the context of soulslikes and which is why I believe Elden Ring may be an extreme methphorical take on a painted world. Plus why are both fires Ariandel and the fire giant are cursed to tend to both in giant bowls other than to draw parallel between one another?
Found an interesting video by RUclipsr Kosmos about Radagon being a perfected Mimic copy of Marika, likely given to her by the Eternal City while they were still in good relations. This Theory hinges on interpreting the Mimic Tear Ashes description is not necessarily saying if the Nox's forge a lord plan succeeded later or not, and the cut Asimi Questline with Melina's wording about the mimic being your other you is similar to how Marika talks to Radagon. (Unfortunately, we still don't have evidence to explain why Radagon is a Red-Haired Man except for symbolism). If the Theory is true, then it could explain why the Elden Beast Greatsword and Nox Finger slaying sword look identical (that they are people reshaped into swords, or silver Tear mimics in this case). and Elaborates more on why Radagon is trying so hard live up to heroic expectations from learning sorcery after his first marriage to then learn Faith under Marika, reforging his wedding moonlight greatsword into the Golden Order Greatsword, and one of the founders of fundamentalism. Being a copy and trying to be the perfect reflection of both a God and Lord of the Golden Order You can understand why he clings to his shattered order. (Marika telling Radagon he is not a god may also be him slowly amassing influence to the point that there is a statue of Radagon instead of Marika at the Church of Pilgrimage, the one where Marika declared the tarnished will on day return to claim the Elden Ring). Anouther interesting note is that the Mimic's Veil belonged to Marika before Godrick stole it before he was hounded from the capital. It was also called "Marika's Mischief." Just now Imagining Marika sneaking out of the capital in a cardboard box to do secret god stuff.
What an incredible video! I was always conflicted about Marika and her shattering of the Elden Ring, like she did it out of some incomprehensible purpose. I've really come to appreciate the story of this game due to the awesome work of you and this community!
ngl i would watch a full 3 hour vid form you , like they way you made me feel even more sorry for queen marika is amazing. Also makes reni ending seem even better now too
you are the only channel that i can watch and my ADHD wont fuck me up😂 i can sit here and listen to you speak about lore for hours!! thank you for these vids please keep doing more!
What a great and insightful video, as always. Really made me think about what a terrible and (literally) heartbreaking scene that struggle between Marika and Radagon in the intro must have been.
Thanks Jonas - it honestly is such a brutal scene and if you rewatch the announcement trailer, all the expressions by both Marika and Radagon make sense.
Excellent video as always SmoughTown. Marika is such an intresting character and i am happy with your interpretation of her character and motivations. It would have been a glorious sight to see her at her prime.
You were able to articulate thoughts I myself had about radagon's origin and Gideon's change of heart better than i could while also showing Marika in a much more sympathetic light than I normally see her. I also used to be more sympathetic to radagon earlier after release until I started seeing him as more of a leash for marika. This video was really insightful and entertaining throughout and the marika voice at the beginning was *chef's kiss You really are one of my favorite lore channels
Thank you for this James, I am really happy to hear you felt I articulated this complex region of lore well. I appreciate the support more than you know!
Amazing work once again. I really appreciate how your vids take the time to parse through and consider all the relevant information provided in the game. Too many people act like just because FROM's storytelling is intentionally vague and difficult to uncover at times, they can just disregard it and make up whatever they want.
Can we all take a moment to imagine a timeline where after Godfrey leaves, Radagon and Rennala leave Loretta in charge of the Academy and start their family in the capital like some medieval take on Full House where everyone is happy and catastrophe is not looming? No? Just me, then?
That...I have wondered if the marriage was entirely political for him and he used some divine geas to mess with her mind and thus gain her devotion. Would explain his rather callous treatment of Rennala later. She was nothing more than a tool to bring the Sorcerors in line to him. About the only way I can see any affection being genuine is if Marika and Radagon were one being even at that point and the union was Marika playing house under an assumed identity only to have to abandon Rennala when the political landscape became too tumultuous to allow such divided power structure. Which also may explain all the contradictory things going on with Marika. As the pressure mounted her personal landscape became ever more divided until she was literally fighting herself at the end.
I feel like the war memorial outside of Miriel's church implies the marriage wasn't one of love, and was placed there to intentionally undercut the version of the story Miriel tells which implies Radagon fell in love miraculously. It reads, "No victory for the golden, nor for the moon No prize but atonement; the birth of a vow" Nothing there to implies it was anything but a brokered marriage of alliance formed to end the war without the golden order losing face. If anything it implies in my mind that Radagon found the thing to be rather an imposition without a prize. No idea how Rennala played along if it went down that way, nor why she broke so hard when he left. Him mentally dominating her somehow would neatly explain both things, though potentially so would her just falling for him hard. If they do a time travel themed DLC, this moment would be an interesting one to visit.
@@jacobfreeman5444 I doubt Radagon didn't care for Renalla. Marika could have called him to her side after Godfrey left, and he would have had to listen because he was Marika. Radagon did leave Renalla with a very precious gift in the Amber Egg, most likely he was remorseful for leaving.
I've been waiting for this one! Marika's lore is so interesting, but so hard to understand without a lot of digging. So glad we have people like you willing to do all that digging for us, thanks for all the hard work!
Your theory about when Radagon emerged makes sense. It matches Placidusax being the only dragon with multiple heads. It also explains her sending Godfrey away immediately. She no longer needed him when she had Radagon as a replacement. But as Radagon grew stronger she became more unhinged. I still posit Marika’s behavior is best explained by a gradual descent into self-destructive madness due to her refusal to accept the natural order of the Elden Ring . Every “god’s” era must end and a new “god” and “order” must rise. Her opposition to Radagon is likely similar to her opposition to the Gloam-Eyed Queen. As Radagon grows stronger he threatens to usurp her position as a “god.” Goldmask had the right idea. Better to not risk the stability of reality on the mental stability of imperfect creatures.
So glad to finally see a video stating that Marika and Radagon were always one and the same. I've believed this to be the case for a long time and have frequently heard people say things like "when Marika was separate from Radagon" and I have just seen no evidence to show that they were ever physically separate beings. It was actually Miriel's voicelines that first made me think that Radagon was always Marika, so it was awesome to see that sited here too! Excellent video all around ^^
Nice ideas, but how did she go from her queen duties in leyndell to being rennalas dom all the time? Teleportation? Several "business trips" back and forth? The lore states Marika and radagon take certain actions separately yet concurrently too, she banishes Godfrey at the same time radagon is chilling in rennalas bedroom for example, so what gives? How could marigon be in leyndell banishing Godfrey while beating up a carian peach in liurnia?
Agreed. We also have Malenia's Great Rune, which implies that she and Miquella were born Empyreans and with their afflictions because they were born of one God. And they only fused right before the Shattering, according to Melina's dialogue in the Queen's Bedchamber. Whereas the sculptor presumably built Radagon's statue and discovered his secret pre-Shattering, meaning he and Marika must have originally been one and the same. I believe the reason Radagon hated his red hair is that it was a curse placed on Marika by the Giants' Fell God, which manifested in Radagon after she separated him from herself.
@@zacorycoward2658 I always figured she left control of Leyndell with Godfrey, since she made him Elden Lord, and took time away as Radagon to court Rennala in order to keep the power of the House of Caria at bay. And do you think Marika, a God, wouldn't be able to take actions in places where she isn't physically present? She could have removed the Grace from Godfrey without being there, and banished him only to return herself as Radagon to assume the mantle of Elden Lord.
Wow. Having binged all your other Elden Ring videos in the last couple of weeks, this was a great watch - served as a good culmination of all of those, to unravel the mystery that is Marika. Keep up the good work, and definitely take that well-earned sleep!
42:00 about this part: I understand the logic and I agree with everything said, but I don’t really think it makes sense. The rune of death being plugged from the Elden ring was the creation of the golden order, where erdtree burial was the norm. So if removing the rune stops erdtree burial from working, the entire golden order never worked in Marikas reign. And of course that could be true, but it seems very extreme.
I know I'm late to this video, but can I just say that you building upon other lorehunters is so great. I'm genuinely a researcher (a criminologist), and the only way we get anywhere is on the shoulders of other people. I'm so happy to see that this community is able to support each other
Being introduced to the souls series a bit more after playing Elden Ring was possibly one of the coolest moments in my life. I absolutely love the amount of detail and story packed into these games, and I’ve become obsessed with reading the lore. Discovered your channel awhile back and so far it’s the best when it comes to lore analysis. I love the others, Vaiyta especially, but I appreciate the time and effort you put in to yours making it worth listening to in the background. Can’t wait for more!
I'm into alchemy as well and a good interpretation of alchemy is as psychology too. Radagon means "Counsel of war" and Marika means "of the sea". Radagon could be seen as the left hemisphere of the brain of the Erdtree, and Marika as the right hemisphere. I kind of imagine the Erdtree itself as a kind of giant spinal chord in this analogy. I've been working on a magnum Opus of my own before Elden Ring was released and the two halves of my Rebis, so to speak, are called Richter and Rhea, which means Arbiter, and the other means flowing. The left hemisphere is responsible for repression of emotion, ideology, language, symbolism, ect,. I have no doubt Marika's intentions were pure, so her being the feeling emotional side, more connected to the universe than Radagon, saw the disjunct between Radagon's ideology and the state of her world, it probably triggered a psychotic split, a divorce in the house of the body, so to speak. So Radagon and Marika in the game kind of represent humanity in its modern form, our psyche is split and the left hemisphere has gained total control of everything in our world, and this endless resistance to death, the flux and flow of the ever changing tapestry of reality will be our undoing. Radagon is the ego, and the ego never quits, it tries to dominate everything, and since Radagon is a zealot of his idealogy, he cannot be reasoned with even as the world under his boot is a miserable decaying wreck.
Amazing video Smough, i think this is your most ambitious lore video so far and, in my eyes, unifies the lore community very well since you had the help of other people on this who work also hard on the understanding of the games lore. So if i may ad a theory of my own here on the origin of Radagon and Marikas unification: just like the ancient dragons the giants had a sub species of their own kind, the Trolls, upon witch they looked down upon and descriminated. The Brick Hammer reads: "Wielded by a laborer who lead a rebellion, and later become a champion himself. The strength of a giant is required to wield it." OK so bear with me here, the only character that i know of being refered to as a champion is Radagon and the Trolls were the ones who Betrayed the giants (for good reason if i am right) so what if Radagon was at first a Troll who lead a rebellion with the other Trolls and joined the forces of the Erdtree/Godfrey/Marika to fight the giants and their fell god. So what if during the battle Marika and Radagon got caught in a massive flame attack that made them both melt together with Radagons troll body perishing while Marika, who was empowered by the Elden Ring at the time, survived and through continues melting and healing... became one. Now it's a little far fetched but think of the frenzied flame, what is its goal? To melt it all away and *become one*. I just came up with this theory while watching and listening the video so the theory holds little weight at the moment but it ties in with Radagons red hair, the admiration Radagon has with the Golden Order (the ones who gave his people their freedom), his interest in learning this new stuff he as a laborer never heard of, him having less control over the body since it belonged to Marika and was more like a guest. There could be more but that's just the stuff that came from the top of my head. Please have mercy on me, i am but a humble lore enthusiast.
Hey dude! Wow thanks so much for the thoughtful comment, I also agree this was my most ambitious video yet! I love the Troll theory! I too am but a humble lore enthusiast!
Awesome video, Makrika has always been the most interesting character as we don't know much about the God's motives or feelings which is an awe-striking idea to even ponder about, what type of person is this God and what is their wants.
Always a joy to watch your vids! I appreciate immensely how you have not only laid out your thoughts cleanly, but present them in an easy to consume and understand manner. There is such an abundance of information, theories and conclusions that one can draw from in game sources, so you truly do a service to us all with your vids. Also, I love your pacing and voice! Looking forward to the next one!
Love the vids, it's great to see you covering Queen Marika since I think she's probably one of the most Enigmatic characters in the game, even more so then Miquela
Rather than having a Machiavellian plan/personality, the view that she planned the downfall of the Erdtree seems to me a fresh departure of the stereotypical "oh she was emotional and she did everything in response to her emotions" view of any female character in a powerful position. Sure she was a woman, but she was also ruthless enough to wage countless wars for the Elden Ring. And in the same type of way that we see Ranni's ruthlessness to achieve her goal, in the days when she not only had to *take* but *establish* the rule of the Erdtree, Marika had to be even more so. Thus, it seems more logical that she knew what she was in for, until she realised that she couldn't have it for long and that the Greater Will always had plans for replacing her (Gloam-eyed Queen). In securing her lasting rule (securing the fact that she could not be killed/replaced), she secured that which she fought for so throughly to destroy even the giants. In her mind, she won the right to bear the Elden Ring, she spent so many years for it, why would she allow anyone to take it? Especially if she was already a God. Which person in power would let someone take that power away (even today)? So the Gloam-Eyed Queen debacle really seemed more a direct treat to *her* then her children/lineage. She could (and did!) always pop out more! To that fact, she had only produced a child Empyrian long after the Rune of Death was removed from the Elden Ring. Another issue I'd bring up is: why would she banish her first husband and the Tarnished from the lands in the first place, and promise she'd bring them back after some time? What motive would that serve had she no plan for them? Clearly she wanted them to evolve outside of the rule of the Elden Ring (the evolution that arguably stopped when she removed the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, and could not happen in the Lands Between). So this evolution (of fighting abilities? survivability?) was a strong enough motive to banish them. She'd also be pressed to produce heirs, esp. Empyrians by the Greater Will. She may have removed the Rune of Death, but Greater Will clearly still had designs on hopping ship. Perhaps that's also why she wasn't too keen on Radagon yet had to accept it regardless because there has to be an Elden Lord. In summary, she's a very intelligent person that managed to establish the Elden Ring as rule of the land. She is cunning, but of course she's also a person who is emotional the same way we see the depth of emotion in the demi-gods. It makes more sense to me that, while that was a factor, she would also be pragmatic enough to realise she had been cheated, that godhood wasn't all it was promised to be, that she's ultimately replaceable, that the Golden Order isn't functioning, and she'd act with intent against it even at a personal loss. The same way Ranni sacrifices her closest companions, with a heavy heart, it could be very well that Marika, with the same gravity as her (step)daughter, organised the beginning of the end of the same being she ushered into the lands. The sentence "I brought you into this world, and I could take you out of it" rings to mind hahaha
Ranni probably didn’t kill Blaidth and Iji, it just doesn’t really fit her character. More likely it was the black knife assassins working off their own accord
@@beckettshaw660 We know she herself didn't kill them...I mean you help with the Blaidd situation. That doesn't mean she wasn't ready to sacrifice them. She knew if she went against the 2 Fingers and GW it would inevitably end up there. You (for her) need to kill Radahn her actual brother. Hell, she sacrificed her own body, the surefire way to be Marika 2.0, because she had other plans. And if she was ready to sacrifice her own Empyrian flesh, sacrificing others (with a heavy heart! She has a lot of feelings but she still goes through with her plan!) is par for the course.
@@beckettshaw660 After all, they went after one Demigod, why not an Empyrean. Perhaps they were spurned by Ranni post-shattering, or they continued to harbour distrust of Marika and her children after their civilisation was brought down (with Marika presumably doing nothing to stop it, despite being one of them).
I think there might be much more to Godwyn than we currently know. It would be cool if FromSoft are playing with our expectations and allowing us to think that all of the lore in the game is truly reliable. If this game is about Empires, then why wouldn’t there be the “golden boy” prince who could do no wrong, and was tragically murdered by traitors of the crown. Maybe Godwyn was a lot more ruthless than we’ve been led to believe, and Marika had more reason to sacrifice him than we know. It is certainly a leap, but given the game’s themes I think the introduction of propaganda via item descriptions would be cool.
Well said. I applaud the thoroughness of Smoughtown's work, but I find myself disagreeing with the conclusions he makes based on the facts he presents. In this case, he makes Marika out to be more of a victim than the evidence would suggest to me. Marika might not have schemed from the start, but it's clear that some point in her godhood, she began to put various machinations into motion. I also have difficulty feeling pity for her captivity; she's a classic Icarus. She was given Godhood but betrayed her outer God patron. That certainly warrants a fitting punishment.
@@SmoughTown Yeah of course! I've also been thinking about the connection with Marika and the black knives that you had discussed, specifically about their ringleader Alecto. In Greek myth, Alecto is one of the three furies tasked with punishing mortals for their transgressions. I find it interesting that Fromsoft specifically chose Alecto and not Nemesis (the fury charged with punishing the Gods) because it almost implies a connection with the Black Knives and Marika as a mortal, not as the primary god of the lands between. Perhaps they truly did have an association with her, just not a positive one. Perhaps they were underlings of Marika while she was just Queen Marika the Numen that harbor some type of bitterness (maybe this even ties into the punishment of those descendants of Numen living in the Eternal cities, the fingerslayer blade, etc). I find this connection especially interesting because Alecto's punishment for mortals was madness, just as the Night of Black Knives drove Marika "to the brink"
Ngl smough, you're the best souls lore creator these days, by far. Of course that's no diss to others. You deserve to be 10x bigger than you are. Outstanding!
I think the crucible and erdtree represent the cycle of destruction and creation. A crucible is an object in which you melt down material using intense heat. The crucible is also mentioned as a place where all life was once one. This sounds to me like the world the Frenzied Flame wishes for. In fact, the erdtree at the end of the Lord of the Frenzied Flame path looks very much like a crucible.
A bit late to the party as I was on holiday and wanted a calm and uninterrupted environment to watch this video. I just paused after 10mn just to comment that your videos are pure gold and are becoming even better and better over time. Such lore knowledge, carefully examined theories, image and sound coordination, excellent diction and delivery. I wish I could find another you for all my other digital interests!
I always wondered if Marika thought the victim of night of black nives would have been one of her "unwanted demigod children" any child would have worked. But then they killed Godwyn the Golden, the favorite child who literally laid with dragons and ended the war. That would make more sense as the act that drove her to shattering
I love the lore interpretations of Miyazaki games… keep them coming, im finally witnessing brilliance in something that was once uninterpretable for myself…
The building on the tapestry might not be the roundtable hold. You can actually find a slightly different version of that tapestry pattern on the Elden Throne and the throne in Stormveil. The difference being a smaller and thinner structure right below the "building" at the top of tree.
Great stuff! Thanks so much for your hard work! I also want to thank you for mentioning when something is speculation or not. This makes it far easier to follow your line(s) of thinking in each video. Thanks again!
One thing I have not heard anyone point out is, after beating Elden Beast the pose that the fractured Marika is in looks a lot like the “My Lord” gesture
When Placidusax’s remembrance calls him elden lord, does this mean he was chosen by the greater will, or is he the consort of the god chosen by the greater will like Godfrey? Is the greater will the god that left the dragons or is it their chosen god? Great content by the way, I’m always looking for long form content to listen to at work and your is among the best .
Its weird because its implied that Placidusax was an elden lord but if you read the in game data, it states that he served a god that eventually fled the lands between and that Placi is still waiting for its return so i think some other god was in control of both the lands between and the power of the crucible long before the Elden Beast appeared and consolidated the ring and the concept of order. My guess is that the Greater will just took over by force, drove away the other gods snd forced Placi into exhile.
@@Hemestal Marika would be the equivalent to whatever god left Placidusax. The Greater Will is an Outer God. The fact that the Remembrance says he was the Elden Lord which is a unique title to the consort King of the god representing the Greater Will should put this debate to rest.
One issue with the world being a "deathless hell" is that its not really deathless. There were tons of deaths in the shattering, and the whole Radahn festival wouldnt make sense if people couldnt die. Nor would Jarens quest to kill Sellen, or the Recusants splitting up after Rykards death, and many other contradictions. Since its called "destined death" I think that sealing it only made it so death wasnt inevitable, rather than removing death entirely. It would explain why only Humans, Trolls, and pets seem to be whitering away, and why immortality doesnt seem to be as much of a concern to npcs as it is in Dark Souls
All the deaths happens post Shattering, which broke the foundations of the world, plus Demigods taking each great rune, which as Miyazaki said, applied different concepts and laws onto the world At the events of the game reality was totally warped to the point that the order of the world doesn't apply as it did before, so things like death can "occur" again. Yet things still revive, as everyone's soul is connected to the Erdtree, that's why Erdtree Burial exist However the world isn't totally deathless. What happens is that the original death was changed by a cycle of death and reincarnation, where the souls of everyone will return eventually from the Erdtree. The ones that are totally immortal however, are the Demigods, as Miyazaki once stated that their immortality comes from the removal of Destined Death, and Melina states that this world needs of "death indiscriminate." It's pretty clear that Demigods are truly immortal, as they are those who lacks of the concept of death itself when compared to the inhabitants of the Lands Between
Holy cow, nearly a 2 hour video. Great job making content m8! It's goin to take me a week to finish this. The Rot video took about that long to watch, so I can't wait to eat this like a horse
Really love your vids and how thorough and structured they are 👍 👍 Edit: you also helped me realize something. I had thought the dragons couldn't be under the Greater Will since Placidusax's god had fled, but now I realize that could refer to the god(maybe emperyean) that he was consort to like Marika's role, rather than the Greater Will leaving
Marika's fate is the same fate she consigned others to under the auspices of the Greater Will. By shifting worship from the Crucible to the Erdtree she consigned the misbegotten, omens, and demihumans to slavery, torture, imprisonment, and exile. By using Maliketh to seal the Rune of Death she consigned him to an isolated and tortured existence. In the end she is a tortured, imprisoned, isolated, slave of the Greater Will (just a vessel for the Elden Ring, unable to do much else). We even see how one of her last acts, binding Hewg to produce the godslaying weapon that will possibly free her from servitude, comes in the form of a curse that produces enormous fear, suffering, and trauma. Live by the sword, die by the sword, as the saying goes. Sympathy for her originates in the fact that she is fallen from grace and that she once enjoyed great bounty and justified faith, but that was won through great cruelty, violence, and oppression.
this was a truly wonderful video, you never cease to impress. i do wish to comment on the endings-- i always found ranni's ending to be the best one for marika. in said ending, she simply disappears under ranni's touch- finally being freed as a new age begins. the frenzied flame ending is one of no age, the world simply melts away. i doubt marika would wish for no life to exist at all, though, we don't really know.
The erdtree was the crucible. It was its name before destined death was removed. In fact, the crucible armor is reddish because the erdtree was reddish, as the destined death was the red component of the elden ring and thus the tree. The tree oroginates from the elden ring itself, not by chance when you drop runes after your death it grows small branches from it, because runes developes a tree like form. The erdtree is the name of the tree after the golden order was established, the crucible was the erdtree when before that. The gilded greats word in Japanese states that the red tinge in the gold coat mirrors the erdtree in its original form.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching my Take on Marika and the Erdtree!
Let me know your thoughts on the lore below!
I was surprised you didn't make mention of the plan with Godfrey! It would be interesting to look at her intentions as stated with Godfrey, that she wanted the Tarnished to die and return, and Godfrey would have been uniquely positioned to do what she wanted - ie, wield a god-killing weapon to kill her. Her husband, whom she clearly respected, maybe even loved.
@@mrrd4444 that was probably the fat he mentioned
@@thebombdiggity3941 Yep it was one of the two whole chapters I just chopped! Apologies will most likely be picked up in a Godfrey/Tarnished video
Have you considered that the Erd Tree was fueled by first the founding wars with the Dragons and then subsequent war with the Fire Giants? They both give an enormous amount of runes so perhaps their runes and spirits served as fertilizer. This idea of war and death sending powerful souls to the Erd Tree is supported by this "Hero's Rune: There were once heroes who walked the battlefields, abundantly blessed by the Erdtree itself, who upon earning their honor simply died."
@@SmoughTown definitely excited to see that then!
We all know that Marika was just angry that the only bed she was given was a massive stone slab with a single sheet. The constant backpain was enough to make her want to destroy the whole order.
Lmao I had always wondered why tf she would ever sleep on something like that
@@nezumixp6744 Perhaps she never slept inside the tree? Maybe when she was imprisoned the tought might have been "meh, give her a bed made of stone, that'll teach her to not destroy things!"
The true reason her body was cracking and falling apart lol
@@NathanTheDwarvenShark I think he is talking about the bed chamber grace bed
And I can’t blame her
Marika's character and intentions have always been the thing I was most curious about in the story. Thanks for giving us such a well thought out take, I really appreciate it!
Thanks Meridius! That's super kind, appreciate the support
Red Gold is not just red Gold. “Red Gold” is a name often used to refer to copper. “Red tinged gold” is just a way to say “orange”, which is a word that never appears in-game since the word did not yet exist.
Copper is the first metal known to man as well.
It also has alchemical implications, as gold is the most celestial metal, and rubedo is the final of the four stages to create a philosopher's stone.
I think it definitely refers to a red tinted gold. The idea that the old world was red rather than gold comes up a bunch. The crucible knights, the dragon lightning, and a bunch of other references.
Oh shit the tree isn’t gold it’s orange and orange is the opposite of blue which is the color of glintstone
See I think about that a lot and the idea that before Marika there wasn’t written language. In Marika’s time there’s a sense of order, everything has its place and ever place has its things and yet the crucible seems too wild. So what best to do than give it a general stamp of “just ok” and proceed to refine it into the countless little pieces that made up the Golden Order.
SmoughTown, you have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
Thanks dude
Nice Thomas reference, best npc vendor
Stock pile Thomas is my boy yo 😁!
Lol, demon souls quotes
Who is them?
Thank you for the tremendous amount of Elden Ring content you've created these past months! Your analysis and attention to detail are truly impressive. Better than so many and worth every penny.
Justin, I just noticed this comment! Thank you so much, that is super generous of you. You have no idea how much that means. Much love
Nerd
Dude, I've been heavy on Fromsoft lore since Bloodborne came out.. You are clearly the best lorehunter around here. I think you surpassed Vaaty and the others because how deep and logical your investigations and theories goes. Thanks for the work and for sharing those really insightful ideas with us.
It's my pleasure man. I just can't get enough of investigating the lore
Vaati is definitely more of a sparknotes. He's good at giving the core concepts of the lore, but I love the depth of this channel.
I almost always agree with Vaati's takes. I don't agree with some of SmoughTown's theories. I feel like they are more out there and take more risks, at least I felt that way with a lot of his ds1 theories (Plot against the Gods). Still, I love the creativity and the incredible amount of thought in some of these videos.
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 Hard agree. Vaati makes very qualitative videos, but the actual lore he covers is not that in-depth ( and, to be honest, most of the stuff can be understood from the item descriptions)
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 Vaaty was the best until around 2017, he was really neat as compiling (and stealing) other peoples theories. But smoughtown was always really deep in the lore of each games, and was always really open to new theories, I think that made the change. Now Vaaty and some others are just trying to capitalize on their past fame, Smoughtown is still trying to decypher the story. and I deeply appreciate that mentality.
@@MidnightatMidian I agree. Smoughtown is definitely a lot more dedicated and looks more deeply at the story.
It occurs to me that "Eternal" maybe an epithet for "Numen". This would also explain why Marika and Nokron share the same adjective. "Marika the Numen" and "The Numen City" would work equally as well and link the two together nicely. Assuming, of course, that was the intent behind the writing/translation.
This connection would also further solidify the idea that Radagon was produced by means of a Mimic Tear, as Nokron is where the research of mimics was strongest.
And it seems rather obvious too. Eternal means long lasting, and the description for the Numen race is “long lived but seldom born.”
I also like the fact that Marika is not truly eternal (as the frenzy and Ranni ending shows), so the title of “Eternal” could just a title of birthplace. “Marika, the Eternal” can be read as “Marika, of the Eternal City” in the same way that you could call me “Jack, the American.”
i love this theory, but i think the nox and the numens are not related, i think its more likely that the nox come from the astrologers, for a lot of reasons, mainly their giants, the carian and eternal cities coat of arms (which you can see every time you cast a spell of that factions) having common elements (which in heraldry means usually common origins) and a little place called selia
@@jackweaver1846 Eternal doesnt mean 'long lasting' though...like...not in any dictionary, not in a basic check of the search engine of your choice...what seems obvious is you dont know what eternal means.
@@Necrotaku999 i actually think they are related based on how advanced the nox were with engineering, and you can see that Marika and Radagon engineer and innovate new things into the lands btwn ( she was a highly favored numen it appears as well, could be because of innovative skills and charisma). It also could explain why godwyn and miquella seemed to be the favorite children because of their character traits. I think alot of the lore that smough touched on in the eternal cities videos talk about how the nox could've been inspired or mentored by the numen and Marika creations once she was was a vassal.
Perhaps Radagon came to be the first time Marika felt doubt about her faith in the Erdtree? A version of her still loyal and unquestioning of the Greater Will manifested in reaction to the doubt she felt upon realizing that the flame of the giants could never truly be put out, no matter how much force she threw at it. Thus explaining why this split manifested with red hair? A representation or reminder of her own insecurities
Great video, by the way. So in-depth and insightful!
That may just be my new head cannon. Both logical and narratively brilliant.
These lore documentaries are honestly the best content I've ever seen on RUclips, each of your uploads has become a special event to me at this point
You don't know how much that means to me. Thank you so much
if your Into any of the soulsborne lore you should check out silver mont,redgrave,jerksansfrontiers,aegon of astora,and of course smoughtown,hawkshaw,Mitch L,and channel yoshimitsu who actually translates the original Japanese texts of the games so it gives it a unique perspective,but my favorite of all time Redgrave,who never got the recognition he deserved,vaatividya plaigerised his work and it was a pretty big thing in the souls community but redgrave still never got his due.
redgrave wrote a book called the paleblood hunt theres an audio book version of it on youtube and it's one of the most in depth genius analysis of souls story explaining some of the deep unknown and unexplained nuiances of the bloodborne story.
I promise I’m not saying your videos are boring but your lore videos have become my sleep meditation. I have always struggled to sleep and some nights would be sleepless. But elden ring being a game I enjoy and a game who’s story I want so badly to understand your videos have become a nightly routine of mine. It’s not something that requires me to actively look at to understand. I can lay down, set my phone down and just listen. I learn more about the story while also being distracted from my worries so I can actually relax. I can finally get sleep now. Of course I come back and listen to what I missed. Thank you for giving me something that works, and thank you for doing what you do. Keep up the amazing content man. You’re doing fantastic.
Dude pumping out hour+ long masterpieces like its nothing. Can't wait to watch this one, best Lore channel by far!
Honestly means the world hearing that. Hope you enjoy this one too
@@SmoughTown My guy, didn't disappoint! Amazing video, super insightful and in-depth as always.. Elden Ring has the best lore imo and your videos are the best at explaining it, you really are SmoughTown the all knowing! Keep at it, can't wait for the upcoming content (like holy shit we have dragons, crucible, godrick, everything renalla and glintstone related despite a lot being covered in the primeval current video and a lot more for sure..)
@@deliriushunter HELL YEAH. Really glad you enjoyed it my friend
@@SmoughTown Thanks for the amount of work you put in, literal GOAT
Dude, this is a masterpiece. Not only do you make informed theories as a base to your argument but also take into account multiple POVs to challenge and, at times, strengthen your thought process.
Elden ring on its own was a monumental event in my life but you and other lore creators took that same experience into an intelectual level that heightened the material as a whole.
Much gratitude sent on your way.
Also I really respect how much you give nods to other creators in the community and just how freaking thorough you are. You're criminally undersubbed imo, the idea of the mycelium network associated with the tree is fascinating, I gotta watch that too now. 🤣
Thanks my friend, yeah there are some great creators out there and they really help fill in some gaps! The mushroom video is super well done by Zio
My thoughts on what Marika says about her children is that maybe after coming to understand that even as a God she's replacable, that she still wants her children to achieve some level greatness of their own, and not be pawns to others.
Yeah sounds like a tough love situation, common in manga too.
When I started Elden Ring, I swore I'd never get into the lore. It was so abstract and I didn't want to invest.
Now I've watched like ten of your videos and rewatched a few. Looking forward to this one, and thanks for all you do!
Im glad to hear that you have been drawn into the lore! Really hope you enjoy this one
From Software + GRRM worldbuilding is just pure amazing.
@@Dangerman-zg3ui honestly the only reason i'm still interested in Elden Ring. FOr me personally it didn't live up to the overall hype media and my own.
I noticed a lot people miss the fact that a Black Knife is sitting right outside Marika's bedchamber. There is some definite connection between Marika and the Black Knives.
The black knives was an order of women assassins created by Ranni the Witch, who threw away her destiny and flesh to oppose the golden order.
The black knife assassin stationed near Marika's bedchamber was most likely placed there to prevent anyone else from accessing the Erdtree, mending the Elden Ring, and further continuing the Greater Will's reign.
@@Rahnonymous If the Black knives are Rannis assassins, that means she used them to execute her 3 best friends.
Wow Rannis kind of a dick.
Or a black knife intended to kill morgott
@@Rahnonymous I don’t think any of that is particularly likely. It’s an ok theory but too many flaws and holes I think to be considered.
@@WillowProductions actually, I've watched a few lore videos that lay out how the black knives killed iji and Blaidd on their own and not at Ranni's behest.
Phenominal video! Your approach about Radagon and Marika was inspiring! What if Radagon is a reflection her mind and body at a time when she was a fervent believer? The red hair a memory of a time when she felt unstoppable, an internalized association. He is the "glory days" of eternally flowing conviction.
Opposite Radagon is Marika. While Radagon feels believing HARDER and minmaxing faith solves all, Marika is wallowing in doubt. She's not brought a new age. Those touched by Grace suffer yet, and her decisions as Marika and Radagon both bring only more suffering.
She is burdened, cursed. She attempts to break her yoke but part of her cannot let go of the past. What is left is denial in the form of Radagon while her accursed god, confirming and affirming her faithlessness, waits for a tarnished to put her back in a place of service to it.
It's even more horrifying than I could have imagined.
cheers for making these lore videos man, they’re always a treat to watch and think about, the quality of them is honestly baffling at the rate you upload them. Can’t wait to see what this one entails!
Thanks Kimiko! Sincerely hope you enjoy this one too, already working on the next one too
@@SmoughTown don't forget to take breaks once in a while! I'll wait eargerly for what you talk about next!
@@kimikosakura7193 appreciate that. May take tonight off!
Amazing video as always Smough. And as always I have some comments to add.
Regarding the Erdtree being disconnected from it's roots could be related to fact someone else has infested them. Godwyn, or rather the Prince of Death, has parasited the roots and thus expanded the influence of death around the Lands Between by directly causing growths around the world. I think it wouldnt be weird to assume perhaps the erdtree disconnected itself from the roots to avoid allowing destined death to influence it's very core.
Also, ass you said, the disconnection hints that Erdtree Burrial no longer works, and this could perhaps help with figuring out why people who received Erdtree Burrial have been unable to return and remain as Spirit Ashes. The way to the tree has been cut off it seems, so they just linger in ash waiting.
Also another thing to mention is that Red lightning is directly stated to be "primeval" in the Dragonking's Cragblade. There is also a very interesting detail about Red Lightning being different from Golden One. That being that golden lightning is sort of created through your seal and then you then utilise it by throwing it, be it on your enemies or yourself. Meanwhile red lightning is never created by you, but instead summoned from the heavens, which then falls into your hand and you are able to wield it like a weapon. This is even true for ancient dragons, as they too do not generate the lightning from themselves.
However, there is a certain dragonlord who to my knowledge is the only one capable of generating Red Lightning into his hands without it needing to be summoned from the sky, even in his Bolt of Gransax Nuke attack. Furthermore, the Cragblade in general seems to be part of Placidussax (it may actually be a reference to DS tail weapons as his tail is actually missing), and the cragblade is said to "contain primeval lightning". So perhaps it is something that is an integral part of his body.
Oh also, gold is an extremely good conductor of electricity, and Ancient Dragons seem to be made of gold underneath their stony skin, particularly Placidussax. Just food for thought.
I can't wait for the next video, cheers mate!
Hey dude, thanks for the thoughtful comments; great point re the Dragons being conductive! Glad you also agree with the root disconnection = erdtree burial no longer working as intended. Glad you enjoyed
@@SmoughTown You expect a dude called Dragon to not over-analyse dragons? You fool! (God I spent way too much time on them, probs my second favourite topic after the history of glintstone and sorcery)
You can't tell if Gransax was able to generate lightning because he is long dead by the time the main storyline begins and the Bolt of Gransax does have a bolt of lightning drop from the sky before you can hurl it. Its very fast and you have to pane your camera up to spot it.
Even Vykes Dragonbolt requires him to get hit by the lightning to gain the buff. The only thing in the game that appears to be able to actually spawn the red lightning espontaneously is Placidusax frontal cleave.
@@Hemestal "Bolt of Granssax nuke" refers to Placidusax' massive AOE attack, the one that stops the OST for a few seconds, which originates from a construction of lightning conjured by Placidusax and that ressembles the Bolt of Granssax.
It otherwise has nothing to do with Granssax
Also, if the removal of the Rune of Death was when Erdtree burials stopped to work, that would mean they never worked at any point during the Golden Order.
That ending transition made me realize something. Marika is depicted in her statues as having two braids, one on each side of her face. But the Marika we see inside the Erdtree only has one that also serves as Radagon’s when the transformation occurs.
Holy shit, coming back to this after the DLC, that is CRAZY attention to detail. Considering we know she cut her second braid off to leave at home in her village of shamans
I mean, the Numen are pretty remarkable craftsman as well - between the semi-invisible Black Knife sound-canceling armor as well as Marika’s rune-breaking hammer. And tbh the idea that the Numen are the descendants of the Nox is interesting and relatively fitting.
The fact that they could craft a hammer that could shatter an outer god's physical being is proof enough of their genius. Like Hewg said, "A god is not easily felled."
@@Rahnonymous Well, the Outer God itself wasn’t slain. It’s vassal was.
@@Rahnonymous the elden ring/ beast is not The greater Wills physical manifestation.
Having a rough day and was very happy to see this to help me through it. You're easily my favorite of the lore channels, your Blasphemous stuff is unmatched. Thank you for all your effort
It's my pleasure and I am sorry to hear about your rough day. All the best and I hope this helps dude
Thanks man! All in all, just a tedious and long work day, but I get some time in to enjoy this while I work. Still have half left for later tonight so I can say I certainly appreciate the long form video. I agree with a lot of what you posit here.
The fact that you put so much love and effort into these breakdowns, and additionally credit all of the content creators that inspired your thought process, says so much about your character.
Thanks for what you do for the ER community 🤙
I appreciate that my friend. And thanks so much for the unending support.
If Radagon is an alter ego of Marika, brought forth by her ascension to godhood and vessel to the Elden Ring, I find it so interesting that she'd call him "leal hound of the Golden Order". Hound. Like Maliketh, a creation of the Greater Will forged to keep her in check
The idea he is proposing is not that he is an alter ego of her, but literally a second person who was fused into her. If this did happen at the beginning then I'm sure she would see Radagon as a hound in her side since by the end she was so done with the Greater Will.
You're an amazing lore hunter, and write scripts which are very easy to follow without sacrificing quality or context.
Also, you are always all too happy to shout out others looking into the same info, and to encourage collaboration and discussion.
Thank you for all your hard work. Watching your videos is always a delight.
That means the world to me my friend. Thank you
42:37
Removing the Rune of Death having an impact on the Erdtree seems not that plausible to me, for the reason that all those depictions of a perfect Erdtree are from the Golden Order, which is defined as starting with the Rune's removal.
Maybe it was in another state before the Golden Order, but the upright, intact Erdtree is the post-Death removal Erdtree.
Also, if, for the entirety of the Golden Order, Erdtree burials didn't work, that would have been noticed. But the burials seem to have started to fail far later, or we would have ghosts of people who lived in all the Golden Order.
That's interesting. Maybe Marika was trying to heal the Erdtree?
I concur. I think the broken cycle of reincarnation is simply a product of the shattering and the resulting disfunctional Erdtree. That would be the most logical conclusion.
Finally, someone acknowledges the very likely possibility that Placidusax’s Outer God was the Greater Will itself! Kudos man.
I would also add that maybe the Greater Will was the first god to colonise the land. Maybe the world was originally all blended in the Crucible (the One Great), then the Greater Will dropped the Elden Ring above it and it caused the separation of all things. This ‘birthing trauma’ will later cause all suffering and a set of Fingers will unthinkably rebel against their god. This could also be why five fingers are considered a sign of higher intelligence and thus order to this day (humans, ancient dragons and beastmane all have five fingers), but the Fingers themselves are divided between sets of two and three, forever marred by that ideological rift.
I also completely agree that there was a considerable gap between the dragons’ reign and the Erdtree’s age. I think that for a time the land was in a similar state of shattering as we see in the game, with the Greater Will’s influence greatly reduced, giving all manner of outer gods to foster their cults and civilisations in a bid to take over the Lands Between. Also, the Elden Ring must have been shattered before to have so drastically decreased in size compared to the one represented in Farum Azula. That must be why Marika had to contend with another empyrean bearing the Rune of Death, which in the meantime had probably been appropriated by the God of the Twinbird/the Helphen. This would also imply that Godfrey would have had a similar role to the player in the game, that not all former great runes have been retrieved (which is possible, as shown in the game) and that Marika felt only Maliketh should or could retrieve Destined Death, given her dubious plans for it.
Now though all empyreans have turned their backs on the Greater Will, or maybe the Greater Will got tired and finally abandoned the world. This leaves the Tarnished to attempt a botched recreation of the one method that’s been proven capable of repairing the Elden Ring before, which would explain why Enia expects us to ‘offer’ the Great Runes to Marika, the only god/empyrean hopefully still under the Greater Will’s influence, or why Ranni’s ending is the only one where a totally new order can be established. Sad how the Two Fingers were too bonkers to see the irony in all this before we find the way into the Erdtree barred by thorns.
Yeh I absolutely agree and doing this video has whet my appetite for doing a video on the GW's influence on the land and life, starting with the One Great (I did have this chapter but had to cut!)
@@SmoughTown Thank you for replying, I appreciate! I really look forward to that video, I’m sure it’ll be awesome. In particular, I’m really inclined to believe that the One Great is a name the Three Fingers use to refer to the land before the arrival of the Elden Beast and Ring and that they’re saying the Greater Will made a mistake in ordering reality in general, rather than something specific.
Anyway, love your content, truly. I discovered you with Blasohemous, I’d really love to hear your thoughts on the final DLC in the future, if you’ll ever feel like it. Cheers!
@@Pizzifrizzo Hey my pleasure, I really appreciate you watching and engaging! I agree, I believe the One Great was how everything was before the 'creation' of disparate life, and the three fingers believe everything should have remained as it was!
Placidusax's outer god has no choice but to be the greater will. Since the Elden Ring was made by greater will and Placidusax was elden lord. Being Elden Lord is a title exclusive to those who are consort to a God that houses the Elden ring. In contrast to the Lord of Chaos which corresponding to Frenzy flame or the Lord of Night which corresponds to the age of the stars.
If Placidusax serves the Greater Will, why on earth would he be waiting for the return of his god beyond time? His god would then still be active in the Lands Between. Why would the dragons have fought the Golden Order if they serve the same order? I feel like this causes more problems than it solves.
Im surprised you didnt mention it but the fact that the Erdtree and the Crucible are two bodies fused into one just like Marika and Radagon is pretty interesting
The fact that this all goes so deep on something that's not outright told directly to us is incredible. Elden ring is written so carefully and beautifully. Huge props to FromSoft and their writers for such a fascinating world.
By far and away my favorite elden ring video. Excellent details, citations, and minimum speculation. Definitely one of the better lore creators, Smough. Keep up the good work.
Thank so much Goob! No plans to stop, already working on the next one!
A note on the old elden ring in farum azula: the background pattern is the same as the filigree on both crucible knight armor sets
This one really convinced me that she's actually a good person. I always wondered why she wasn't the one to fight us at the end but this makes alot of sense.
Also you kept saying you didn't want to bloat the video too much but you can throw as much info as you want to make your points in the video and I'll always watch them no matter how long. Great job dude.
Thanks my friend, really glad you enjoyed it. Haha maybe I'll do a massive video in the future!
@@SmoughTown I'd be waay into that. Thanks again for the video and just all the work you do.
@@jefferyschroeder3104 Thanks for your support dude.
@@jefferyschroeder3104 How do you figure that? She literally views her children as objects and may have orchestrated her son's death just to strike at the Greater Will. These are the actions of an abhorrent person.
@stephenjenkins7971 not only that but she literally had Godfrey genocide people who didn't embrace the golden order
I am so fascinated by the Crucible. I concur that the creatures in the reliefs do appear to be Misbegotten. Their oversized round heads are so distinct to them, I have a hard time perceiving any ambiguity there. Also, what is up with the Leonine Misbegotten having red hair? It's such a rare trait, I can't help but question what the connection might be. We know the red wolves are related to Radagon, given almost all of them are present in places directly tied to Carian Royalty. But I have not seen anyone explore the relationship to the Leonine except briefly with regard to the one bearing the Golden Order Greatsword. Did Radagon have a relationship to the Crucible? Did Marika seek the primordial power of the Crucible in order to manifest Radagon? It's so fascinating to think about. I recently observed that the tail portion of the Elden Beast very much resembles Radagon's rune. I suspect that could be how Marika drew him out of herself, removing that Rune segment. As a component of the Elden Ring, he then can exist as her but physically distinct. When you can see the Elden Ring inside the crumbling Radagon, it looks just like the Elden Beast in flight. And during the Elden Beast fight, the way the tail tendrils overlap when it's in flight create a pattern that strongly echoes the diagonal lattice of Radagon's rune.
The questions re Radagon are excellent ones and ones I pondered myself making this, I decided the best course of action was to focus on Marika and later do a video on Radagon and go deeper on him.
@@SmoughTown can't wait! 😁
"Heresy is not native to this world -- it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined."
-Miriel, Pastor of Vows
Radagon's hair color is super interesting, i think there is some merit to it actually being a curse of the Fire Giants. Not only is Radagon depicted with blond hair in game and in trailers, but the guy should've been alive during the war of the giants, right? If so him believing that his red hair is due to a curse might be factual, since he might have seen his hair color change.
@@arcanefire7511 some theories in reddit stated dat the Giant's curse was inflicted onto Marika. When Radagon initially split for the war against the Carian family, she imparted dat curse onto him... Just a theory tho
sorry, I dont hav the link for the full theory scope from reddit
i always thought the shattering and repairing of the ring happened at different times, cool to think of them vying for control of a body while simultaneously repairing and shattering the elden ring
When I think of the last fire giant being left alive to carry the curse, it reminds me of father ariandel being used to keep the painted world going. Sister Friede and Marika both do necessary ruthless actions to keep their worlds going. This works within the context of soulslikes and which is why I believe Elden Ring may be an extreme methphorical take on a painted world. Plus why are both fires Ariandel and the fire giant are cursed to tend to both in giant bowls other than to draw parallel between one another?
Found an interesting video by RUclipsr Kosmos about Radagon being a perfected Mimic copy of Marika, likely given to her by the Eternal City while they were still in good relations.
This Theory hinges on interpreting the Mimic Tear Ashes description is not necessarily saying if the Nox's forge a lord plan succeeded later or not, and the cut Asimi Questline with Melina's wording about the mimic being your other you is similar to how Marika talks to Radagon. (Unfortunately, we still don't have evidence to explain why Radagon is a Red-Haired Man except for symbolism).
If the Theory is true, then it could explain why the Elden Beast Greatsword and Nox Finger slaying sword look identical (that they are people reshaped into swords, or silver Tear mimics in this case). and Elaborates more on why Radagon is trying so hard live up to heroic expectations from learning sorcery after his first marriage to then learn Faith under Marika, reforging his wedding moonlight greatsword into the Golden Order Greatsword, and one of the founders of fundamentalism. Being a copy and trying to be the perfect reflection of both a God and Lord of the Golden Order You can understand why he clings to his shattered order. (Marika telling Radagon he is not a god may also be him slowly amassing influence to the point that there is a statue of Radagon instead of Marika at the Church of Pilgrimage, the one where Marika declared the tarnished will on day return to claim the Elden Ring).
Anouther interesting note is that the Mimic's Veil belonged to Marika before Godrick stole it before he was hounded from the capital. It was also called "Marika's Mischief." Just now Imagining Marika sneaking out of the capital in a cardboard box to do secret god stuff.
I saw that video too, the youtuber is Kosmos
@@arukaism thanks
What an incredible video! I was always conflicted about Marika and her shattering of the Elden Ring, like she did it out of some incomprehensible purpose. I've really come to appreciate the story of this game due to the awesome work of you and this community!
ngl i would watch a full 3 hour vid form you , like they way you made me feel even more sorry for queen marika is amazing. Also makes reni ending seem even better now too
These vids are always a treat to watch. Your dedication to combing through the lore so finely is much appreciated. Defo the best channel of it's kind!
It's my pleasure my friend, really appreciate the support
you are the only channel that i can watch and my ADHD wont fuck me up😂 i can sit here and listen to you speak about lore for hours!! thank you for these vids please keep doing more!
I'm really glad to hear that! Don't worry working on the next one as we speak
So it is basically The Strange Case of Dr. Marika and Mr. Radagon. Love it.
What a great and insightful video, as always. Really made me think about what a terrible and (literally) heartbreaking scene that struggle between Marika and Radagon in the intro must have been.
Thanks Jonas - it honestly is such a brutal scene and if you rewatch the announcement trailer, all the expressions by both Marika and Radagon make sense.
Excellent video as always SmoughTown. Marika is such an intresting character and i am happy with your interpretation of her character and motivations. It would have been a glorious sight to see her at her prime.
Couldn't agree more!
You were able to articulate thoughts I myself had about radagon's origin and Gideon's change of heart better than i could while also showing Marika in a much more sympathetic light than I normally see her. I also used to be more sympathetic to radagon earlier after release until I started seeing him as more of a leash for marika. This video was really insightful and entertaining throughout and the marika voice at the beginning was *chef's kiss
You really are one of my favorite lore channels
Thank you for this James, I am really happy to hear you felt I articulated this complex region of lore well. I appreciate the support more than you know!
Amazing work once again. I really appreciate how your vids take the time to parse through and consider all the relevant information provided in the game. Too many people act like just because FROM's storytelling is intentionally vague and difficult to uncover at times, they can just disregard it and make up whatever they want.
SmoughTowns respect for the community and scholarly cooperation is admirable and should serve as an example of etiquette within any esoteric fandom.
I have a rather long commute to work and I solidly look forward to listening to these videos on way. Thank you for making such long content.
Enjoy dude
Can we all take a moment to imagine a timeline where after Godfrey leaves, Radagon and Rennala leave Loretta in charge of the Academy and start their family in the capital like some medieval take on Full House where everyone is happy and catastrophe is not looming?
No? Just me, then?
The closet I can imagine to a souls comedy is the way the pruld showed what a Christmas dinner in the ds1 royal family would look like
That...I have wondered if the marriage was entirely political for him and he used some divine geas to mess with her mind and thus gain her devotion. Would explain his rather callous treatment of Rennala later. She was nothing more than a tool to bring the Sorcerors in line to him.
About the only way I can see any affection being genuine is if Marika and Radagon were one being even at that point and the union was Marika playing house under an assumed identity only to have to abandon Rennala when the political landscape became too tumultuous to allow such divided power structure. Which also may explain all the contradictory things going on with Marika. As the pressure mounted her personal landscape became ever more divided until she was literally fighting herself at the end.
I feel like the war memorial outside of Miriel's church implies the marriage wasn't one of love, and was placed there to intentionally undercut the version of the story Miriel tells which implies Radagon fell in love miraculously. It reads, "No victory for the golden, nor for the moon
No prize but atonement; the birth of a vow" Nothing there to implies it was anything but a brokered marriage of alliance formed to end the war without the golden order losing face. If anything it implies in my mind that Radagon found the thing to be rather an imposition without a prize. No idea how Rennala played along if it went down that way, nor why she broke so hard when he left. Him mentally dominating her somehow would neatly explain both things, though potentially so would her just falling for him hard.
If they do a time travel themed DLC, this moment would be an interesting one to visit.
@@jacobfreeman5444 I doubt Radagon didn't care for Renalla. Marika could have called him to her side after Godfrey left, and he would have had to listen because he was Marika. Radagon did leave Renalla with a very precious gift in the Amber Egg, most likely he was remorseful for leaving.
i thought gwyn family was bad but damn elden ring family has way more problems
I've been waiting for this one! Marika's lore is so interesting, but so hard to understand without a lot of digging. So glad we have people like you willing to do all that digging for us, thanks for all the hard work!
Thanks Zac! Was my pleasure
Your theory about when Radagon emerged makes sense. It matches Placidusax being the only dragon with multiple heads. It also explains her sending Godfrey away immediately. She no longer needed him when she had Radagon as a replacement. But as Radagon grew stronger she became more unhinged. I still posit Marika’s behavior is best explained by a gradual descent into self-destructive madness due to her refusal to accept the natural order of the Elden Ring . Every “god’s” era must end and a new “god” and “order” must rise. Her opposition to Radagon is likely similar to her opposition to the Gloam-Eyed Queen. As Radagon grows stronger he threatens to usurp her position as a “god.” Goldmask had the right idea. Better to not risk the stability of reality on the mental stability of imperfect creatures.
Thanks for everything you do, Smough!
So glad to finally see a video stating that Marika and Radagon were always one and the same. I've believed this to be the case for a long time and have frequently heard people say things like "when Marika was separate from Radagon" and I have just seen no evidence to show that they were ever physically separate beings. It was actually Miriel's voicelines that first made me think that Radagon was always Marika, so it was awesome to see that sited here too! Excellent video all around ^^
Yeah it was always my impression as well! And looking into it reinforced my beliefs. Appreciate the kind words, glad you enjoyed it.
Nice ideas, but how did she go from her queen duties in leyndell to being rennalas dom all the time? Teleportation? Several "business trips" back and forth? The lore states Marika and radagon take certain actions separately yet concurrently too, she banishes Godfrey at the same time radagon is chilling in rennalas bedroom for example, so what gives? How could marigon be in leyndell banishing Godfrey while beating up a carian peach in liurnia?
Agreed. We also have Malenia's Great Rune, which implies that she and Miquella were born Empyreans and with their afflictions because they were born of one God. And they only fused right before the Shattering, according to Melina's dialogue in the Queen's Bedchamber. Whereas the sculptor presumably built Radagon's statue and discovered his secret pre-Shattering, meaning he and Marika must have originally been one and the same.
I believe the reason Radagon hated his red hair is that it was a curse placed on Marika by the Giants' Fell God, which manifested in Radagon after she separated him from herself.
@@zacorycoward2658 I always figured she left control of Leyndell with Godfrey, since she made him Elden Lord, and took time away as Radagon to court Rennala in order to keep the power of the House of Caria at bay. And do you think Marika, a God, wouldn't be able to take actions in places where she isn't physically present? She could have removed the Grace from Godfrey without being there, and banished him only to return herself as Radagon to assume the mantle of Elden Lord.
There’s a message in the game that literally says Marika is Ragdon if I remember correctly. Ain’t played in 3 months but yeah
Wow. Having binged all your other Elden Ring videos in the last couple of weeks, this was a great watch - served as a good culmination of all of those, to unravel the mystery that is Marika.
Keep up the good work, and definitely take that well-earned sleep!
Wow, thanks so much for the kindness. I'm humbled you enjoyed it so much! Thanks so much, will have a nice restful night tonight.
42:00 about this part: I understand the logic and I agree with everything said, but I don’t really think it makes sense. The rune of death being plugged from the Elden ring was the creation of the golden order, where erdtree burial was the norm. So if removing the rune stops erdtree burial from working, the entire golden order never worked in Marikas reign. And of course that could be true, but it seems very extreme.
I know I'm late to this video, but can I just say that you building upon other lorehunters is so great. I'm genuinely a researcher (a criminologist), and the only way we get anywhere is on the shoulders of other people. I'm so happy to see that this community is able to support each other
Being introduced to the souls series a bit more after playing Elden Ring was possibly one of the coolest moments in my life. I absolutely love the amount of detail and story packed into these games, and I’ve become obsessed with reading the lore. Discovered your channel awhile back and so far it’s the best when it comes to lore analysis. I love the others, Vaiyta especially, but I appreciate the time and effort you put in to yours making it worth listening to in the background. Can’t wait for more!
Thanks Chris! I really enjoy making these, so expect more soon!
I'm into alchemy as well and a good interpretation of alchemy is as psychology too. Radagon means "Counsel of war" and Marika means "of the sea". Radagon could be seen as the left hemisphere of the brain of the Erdtree, and Marika as the right hemisphere. I kind of imagine the Erdtree itself as a kind of giant spinal chord in this analogy. I've been working on a magnum Opus of my own before Elden Ring was released and the two halves of my Rebis, so to speak, are called Richter and Rhea, which means Arbiter, and the other means flowing. The left hemisphere is responsible for repression of emotion, ideology, language, symbolism, ect,. I have no doubt Marika's intentions were pure, so her being the feeling emotional side, more connected to the universe than Radagon, saw the disjunct between Radagon's ideology and the state of her world, it probably triggered a psychotic split, a divorce in the house of the body, so to speak. So Radagon and Marika in the game kind of represent humanity in its modern form, our psyche is split and the left hemisphere has gained total control of everything in our world, and this endless resistance to death, the flux and flow of the ever changing tapestry of reality will be our undoing. Radagon is the ego, and the ego never quits, it tries to dominate everything, and since Radagon is a zealot of his idealogy, he cannot be reasoned with even as the world under his boot is a miserable decaying wreck.
Amazing video Smough, i think this is your most ambitious lore video so far and, in my eyes, unifies the lore community very well since you had the help of other people on this who work also hard on the understanding of the games lore.
So if i may ad a theory of my own here on the origin of Radagon and Marikas unification: just like the ancient dragons the giants had a sub species of their own kind, the Trolls, upon witch they looked down upon and descriminated. The Brick Hammer reads: "Wielded by a laborer who lead a rebellion, and later become a champion himself. The strength of a giant is required to wield it." OK so bear with me here, the only character that i know of being refered to as a champion is Radagon and the Trolls were the ones who Betrayed the giants (for good reason if i am right) so what if Radagon was at first a Troll who lead a rebellion with the other Trolls and joined the forces of the Erdtree/Godfrey/Marika to fight the giants and their fell god. So what if during the battle Marika and Radagon got caught in a massive flame attack that made them both melt together with Radagons troll body perishing while Marika, who was empowered by the Elden Ring at the time, survived and through continues melting and healing... became one. Now it's a little far fetched but think of the frenzied flame, what is its goal? To melt it all away and *become one*. I just came up with this theory while watching and listening the video so the theory holds little weight at the moment but it ties in with Radagons red hair, the admiration Radagon has with the Golden Order (the ones who gave his people their freedom), his interest in learning this new stuff he as a laborer never heard of, him having less control over the body since it belonged to Marika and was more like a guest. There could be more but that's just the stuff that came from the top of my head. Please have mercy on me, i am but a humble lore enthusiast.
Hey dude! Wow thanks so much for the thoughtful comment, I also agree this was my most ambitious video yet! I love the Troll theory! I too am but a humble lore enthusiast!
This video is very well done. Seriously taking up the best lore-hound title on the platform. Keep it up!
Thanks Cyber!
Awesome video, Makrika has always been the most interesting character as we don't know much about the God's motives or feelings which is an awe-striking idea to even ponder about, what type of person is this God and what is their wants.
Always a joy to watch your vids! I appreciate immensely how you have not only laid out your thoughts cleanly, but present them in an easy to consume and understand manner. There is such an abundance of information, theories and conclusions that one can draw from in game sources, so you truly do a service to us all with your vids. Also, I love your pacing and voice!
Looking forward to the next one!
I think the name Marika is a fitting one for her own character as the name is a variant of Mary that either means “bitter” or “rebellious”.
Love the vids, it's great to see you covering Queen Marika since I think she's probably one of the most Enigmatic characters in the game, even more so then Miquela
Rather than having a Machiavellian plan/personality, the view that she planned the downfall of the Erdtree seems to me a fresh departure of the stereotypical "oh she was emotional and she did everything in response to her emotions" view of any female character in a powerful position. Sure she was a woman, but she was also ruthless enough to wage countless wars for the Elden Ring. And in the same type of way that we see Ranni's ruthlessness to achieve her goal, in the days when she not only had to *take* but *establish* the rule of the Erdtree, Marika had to be even more so. Thus, it seems more logical that she knew what she was in for, until she realised that she couldn't have it for long and that the Greater Will always had plans for replacing her (Gloam-eyed Queen). In securing her lasting rule (securing the fact that she could not be killed/replaced), she secured that which she fought for so throughly to destroy even the giants. In her mind, she won the right to bear the Elden Ring, she spent so many years for it, why would she allow anyone to take it?
Especially if she was already a God. Which person in power would let someone take that power away (even today)?
So the Gloam-Eyed Queen debacle really seemed more a direct treat to *her* then her children/lineage. She could (and did!) always pop out more!
To that fact, she had only produced a child Empyrian long after the Rune of Death was removed from the Elden Ring.
Another issue I'd bring up is: why would she banish her first husband and the Tarnished from the lands in the first place, and promise she'd bring them back after some time? What motive would that serve had she no plan for them? Clearly she wanted them to evolve outside of the rule of the Elden Ring (the evolution that arguably stopped when she removed the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, and could not happen in the Lands Between). So this evolution (of fighting abilities? survivability?) was a strong enough motive to banish them.
She'd also be pressed to produce heirs, esp. Empyrians by the Greater Will. She may have removed the Rune of Death, but Greater Will clearly still had designs on hopping ship. Perhaps that's also why she wasn't too keen on Radagon yet had to accept it regardless because there has to be an Elden Lord.
In summary, she's a very intelligent person that managed to establish the Elden Ring as rule of the land. She is cunning, but of course she's also a person who is emotional the same way we see the depth of emotion in the demi-gods.
It makes more sense to me that, while that was a factor, she would also be pragmatic enough to realise she had been cheated, that godhood wasn't all it was promised to be, that she's ultimately replaceable, that the Golden Order isn't functioning, and she'd act with intent against it even at a personal loss.
The same way Ranni sacrifices her closest companions, with a heavy heart, it could be very well that Marika, with the same gravity as her (step)daughter, organised the beginning of the end of the same being she ushered into the lands.
The sentence "I brought you into this world, and I could take you out of it" rings to mind hahaha
Ranni probably didn’t kill Blaidth and Iji, it just doesn’t really fit her character. More likely it was the black knife assassins working off their own accord
@@beckettshaw660 We know she herself didn't kill them...I mean you help with the Blaidd situation. That doesn't mean she wasn't ready to sacrifice them. She knew if she went against the 2 Fingers and GW it would inevitably end up there. You (for her) need to kill Radahn her actual brother. Hell, she sacrificed her own body, the surefire way to be Marika 2.0, because she had other plans. And if she was ready to sacrifice her own Empyrian flesh, sacrificing others (with a heavy heart! She has a lot of feelings but she still goes through with her plan!) is par for the course.
@@beckettshaw660 After all, they went after one Demigod, why not an Empyrean. Perhaps they were spurned by Ranni post-shattering, or they continued to harbour distrust of Marika and her children after their civilisation was brought down (with Marika presumably doing nothing to stop it, despite being one of them).
I think there might be much more to Godwyn than we currently know. It would be cool if FromSoft are playing with our expectations and allowing us to think that all of the lore in the game is truly reliable. If this game is about Empires, then why wouldn’t there be the “golden boy” prince who could do no wrong, and was tragically murdered by traitors of the crown. Maybe Godwyn was a lot more ruthless than we’ve been led to believe, and Marika had more reason to sacrifice him than we know.
It is certainly a leap, but given the game’s themes I think the introduction of propaganda via item descriptions would be cool.
Well said. I applaud the thoroughness of Smoughtown's work, but I find myself disagreeing with the conclusions he makes based on the facts he presents. In this case, he makes Marika out to be more of a victim than the evidence would suggest to me. Marika might not have schemed from the start, but it's clear that some point in her godhood, she began to put various machinations into motion. I also have difficulty feeling pity for her captivity; she's a classic Icarus. She was given Godhood but betrayed her outer God patron. That certainly warrants a fitting punishment.
what an incredible deep dive. probably the most informative elden ring piece I've ever watched on youtube
Thanks so much Aidan. Really pleased you enjoyed it.
@@SmoughTown Yeah of course! I've also been thinking about the connection with Marika and the black knives that you had discussed, specifically about their ringleader Alecto. In Greek myth, Alecto is one of the three furies tasked with punishing mortals for their transgressions. I find it interesting that Fromsoft specifically chose Alecto and not Nemesis (the fury charged with punishing the Gods) because it almost implies a connection with the Black Knives and Marika as a mortal, not as the primary god of the lands between. Perhaps they truly did have an association with her, just not a positive one. Perhaps they were underlings of Marika while she was just Queen Marika the Numen that harbor some type of bitterness (maybe this even ties into the punishment of those descendants of Numen living in the Eternal cities, the fingerslayer blade, etc). I find this connection especially interesting because Alecto's punishment for mortals was madness, just as the Night of Black Knives drove Marika "to the brink"
Thank you for making these long excellent videos, I can't fathom the effort that goes into it. You really deserve all the success you got and will get
Glad you like them Martin and really appreciate the support!
Ngl smough, you're the best souls lore creator these days, by far. Of course that's no diss to others. You deserve to be 10x bigger than you are. Outstanding!
I think the crucible and erdtree represent the cycle of destruction and creation. A crucible is an object in which you melt down material using intense heat. The crucible is also mentioned as a place where all life was once one. This sounds to me like the world the Frenzied Flame wishes for. In fact, the erdtree at the end of the Lord of the Frenzied Flame path looks very much like a crucible.
A bit late to the party as I was on holiday and wanted a calm and uninterrupted environment to watch this video. I just paused after 10mn just to comment that your videos are pure gold and are becoming even better and better over time. Such lore knowledge, carefully examined theories, image and sound coordination, excellent diction and delivery. I wish I could find another you for all my other digital interests!
Thank you Alex that feed back honestly means the world to me! I'll keep trying to improve.
I always wondered if Marika thought the victim of night of black nives would have been one of her "unwanted demigod children" any child would have worked. But then they killed Godwyn the Golden, the favorite child who literally laid with dragons and ended the war. That would make more sense as the act that drove her to shattering
Plus Ranni also died at the same time. Even if she was against the whole Elden Ring idea, losing 2 children at the same time may did Marika a number.
This has to be one of the most concise and logically sound videos I’ve seen on the history of Elden Ring, the Golden Order and Marika.
Honestly thank you so much. It was a challenge and your kind words make it all worth it
Yet again, your intros are just straight 🔥
Thanks my man, means alot coming from yourself.
One of the best written Elden Ring vids ive seen so far, well done my friend, looking forward to the next one
Thanks so much, means alot to hear that because it took me a while tbh! Next one soon
Radagon’s Spell Parry move is a modified version of Carian retaliation, since it was used against the golden order during the Liurnian Wars.
Considering the quality of these, the rate at which they're coming out is simply staggering. Keep doing what you're doing!
Thank you Andrea! I will do
BEST LORE CHANNEL ON RUclips!! And your hitting w an almost 2 hour vid legs goooooooooooo
Wooo! Thanks for the kind words, keeps me going!
Im still here brother DLC time 😭
I really like your analisis. The fact that you take your time to explain it as well as you think its necesary makes it even better
What an incredible unintentional Birthday present. Thanks and all the love to you Smoughtown, the Elden Ring Lore GOAT.
Happiest of birthdays too you! I hope you have a smashing day
@@SmoughTown Birthday Wishes from the Man Himself, E.R. Lore GOAT and all around stand up guy and content creator. Cheers mate 🍻
@@entysing6780 Really appreciate your support as always, and hope you have a cracking day
Incredible video that really recontextualized how I view Marika's goals. Huge fan of the channel and I look forward to future content!
Awesome! Thank you, really appreciate your support! More to come this week
I love the lore interpretations of Miyazaki games… keep them coming, im finally witnessing brilliance in something that was once uninterpretable for myself…
ok, haven't even watched this yet, but I just gotta say --
wow man. Just wow. TWO HOURSS? OF LORE!!!
You're a gift man, thank you so much
Thanks so much for the support Ethan! Hope you enjoy
The building on the tapestry might not be the roundtable hold. You can actually find a slightly different version of that tapestry pattern on the Elden Throne and the throne in Stormveil. The difference being a smaller and thinner structure right below the "building" at the top of tree.
Great stuff! Thanks so much for your hard work!
I also want to thank you for mentioning when something is speculation or not. This makes it far easier to follow your line(s) of thinking in each video. Thanks again!
Thanks so much! Yeah I try my best to do so, because I think it's important to keep that distinction!
I would love to hear more about the greater will! I can imagine doing an outer god and using context clues would be amazing
Unbelievable quality, we need to get this guy WAY more subscribers. Great job, man. Really, really good stuff.
🥺
bro coming at us with a MOVIE of lore lets GOOOO
It's a big one!
this is by far your most extensive video imo. great stuff
One thing I have not heard anyone point out is, after beating Elden Beast the pose that the fractured Marika is in looks a lot like the “My Lord” gesture
Every time you drop a new video I know it’s gonna be awesome, I’ve loved your lore hunting and hope soon many others see the amazing content you make.
When Placidusax’s remembrance calls him elden lord, does this mean he was chosen by the greater will, or is he the consort of the god chosen by the greater will like Godfrey? Is the greater will the god that left the dragons or is it their chosen god?
Great content by the way, I’m always looking for long form content to listen to at work and your is among the best .
I hope you enjoy Keller, and I intend to do a dragon video to explore these very ideas.
i would believe he would be a consort since all other elden lords were know are also consorts, even us x3
It's more likely the God chosen by the greater will that was chosen then left them.
Its weird because its implied that Placidusax was an elden lord but if you read the in game data, it states that he served a god that eventually fled the lands between and that Placi is still waiting for its return so i think some other god was in control of both the lands between and the power of the crucible long before the Elden Beast appeared and consolidated the ring and the concept of order.
My guess is that the Greater will just took over by force, drove away the other gods snd forced Placi into exhile.
@@Hemestal Marika would be the equivalent to whatever god left Placidusax. The Greater Will is an Outer God. The fact that the Remembrance says he was the Elden Lord which is a unique title to the consort King of the god representing the Greater Will should put this debate to rest.
Compared to regular lore videos, yours has a lot more depth and attention to detail. Thanks for making this man it was a very interesting listen!
One issue with the world being a "deathless hell" is that its not really deathless. There were tons of deaths in the shattering, and the whole Radahn festival wouldnt make sense if people couldnt die. Nor would Jarens quest to kill Sellen, or the Recusants splitting up after Rykards death, and many other contradictions.
Since its called "destined death" I think that sealing it only made it so death wasnt inevitable, rather than removing death entirely. It would explain why only Humans, Trolls, and pets seem to be whitering away, and why immortality doesnt seem to be as much of a concern to npcs as it is in Dark Souls
Also there's the commoners at Agheels Lake who want to die by the flame of the dragon.
All the deaths happens post Shattering, which broke the foundations of the world, plus Demigods taking each great rune, which as Miyazaki said, applied different concepts and laws onto the world
At the events of the game reality was totally warped to the point that the order of the world doesn't apply as it did before, so things like death can "occur" again. Yet things still revive, as everyone's soul is connected to the Erdtree, that's why Erdtree Burial exist
However the world isn't totally deathless. What happens is that the original death was changed by a cycle of death and reincarnation, where the souls of everyone will return eventually from the Erdtree. The ones that are totally immortal however, are the Demigods, as Miyazaki once stated that their immortality comes from the removal of Destined Death, and Melina states that this world needs of "death indiscriminate." It's pretty clear that Demigods are truly immortal, as they are those who lacks of the concept of death itself when compared to the inhabitants of the Lands Between
Holy cow, nearly a 2 hour video.
Great job making content m8!
It's goin to take me a week to finish this. The Rot video took about that long to watch, so I can't wait to eat this like a horse
Hey thanks so much dude! Can't wait to hear your thoughts when you've finished
Really love your vids and how thorough and structured they are 👍 👍
Edit: you also helped me realize something. I had thought the dragons couldn't be under the Greater Will since Placidusax's god had fled, but now I realize that could refer to the god(maybe emperyean) that he was consort to like Marika's role, rather than the Greater Will leaving
You and The Ashen Hollow are my favorite. Keep it up man. Absolutely love these long form videos. I look forward to your videos more than any TV show.
Thanks Christian, I get nervous the videos are too long sometimes so I appreciate that feedback!
Marika's fate is the same fate she consigned others to under the auspices of the Greater Will. By shifting worship from the Crucible to the Erdtree she consigned the misbegotten, omens, and demihumans to slavery, torture, imprisonment, and exile. By using Maliketh to seal the Rune of Death she consigned him to an isolated and tortured existence. In the end she is a tortured, imprisoned, isolated, slave of the Greater Will (just a vessel for the Elden Ring, unable to do much else). We even see how one of her last acts, binding Hewg to produce the godslaying weapon that will possibly free her from servitude, comes in the form of a curse that produces enormous fear, suffering, and trauma. Live by the sword, die by the sword, as the saying goes.
Sympathy for her originates in the fact that she is fallen from grace and that she once enjoyed great bounty and justified faith, but that was won through great cruelty, violence, and oppression.
this was a truly wonderful video, you never cease to impress.
i do wish to comment on the endings-- i always found ranni's ending to be the best one for marika. in said ending, she simply disappears under ranni's touch- finally being freed as a new age begins. the frenzied flame ending is one of no age, the world simply melts away. i doubt marika would wish for no life to exist at all, though, we don't really know.
The erdtree was the crucible. It was its name before destined death was removed. In fact, the crucible armor is reddish because the erdtree was reddish, as the destined death was the red component of the elden ring and thus the tree. The tree oroginates from the elden ring itself, not by chance when you drop runes after your death it grows small branches from it, because runes developes a tree like form. The erdtree is the name of the tree after the golden order was established, the crucible was the erdtree when before that. The gilded greats word in Japanese states that the red tinge in the gold coat mirrors the erdtree in its original form.
These are definitely the best elden ring lore videos out there. Thanks so much for making them!!