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Dear Mr. Robinson. If possible I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the MC312, and really current high end amps in general, vs something a little older like a ML 532.H?
I returned my McIntosh C49 because although it's prettier than my Parasound 2100, it didn't sound better. The VU meters are pretty but not useful such as the EQ spectrum equalizer in my Eversolo DMP-A6 which tells me what hz is played in a song so I can match it to speakers. ------ source=Apple Music lossless
Its one of the few videos of yours I didn't watch as I knew they would be Farout of my budget range and hearing they cost $7,500USD so like $10,000+ AUD each, my assumption was proven right.
This is why I've been a fan of Andrew Robinson for decades. He is gifted with painting a picture of his experience with different gear that doesn't sound like mumbo jumbo or esoteric BS. His wealth of knowledge as a reviewer is extensive enough to reach both novices and long time audiophiles. Bringing the listening environment's role in the playback experience is key for all of us to remember and address. Phenomenonal video.
The best way to avoid the audiophile rabbit hole. Spend what you can on a system. Then have no money left to upgrade, and enjoy what you do have. From photos I’ve seen on hifi groups on Facebook, most people have very adequate systems, but have totally inadequate layouts / positioning for speakers. Any upgrades are a waste of money because of this.
The biggest hifi trap is when you sit down to listen to the system instead of the music there are a lot of people who have climbed the hifi ladder to land up selling it again because they realised they were not enjoying the music on the vast majority of their cds or records etc as the recording was not the best this is a real issue when you have really good system as a lot of recordings are simply not great so listening to them on a good system is frustrating that is the real danger with hifi
Thanks Greg for being honest. I have been there and Andrew's advice of moving speakers around and changing some things around really does help and can make your speakers sound better.
Escape the hifi rabbit hole. I couldn’t agree more. I’ve tried for 53 years to get audio nirvana it didn’t happen it started from being inquisitive to buy from the start of my hifi journey to being compulsion to buy and then addiction then I came to my sences and brought a wiim amp with two mission bookshelf speakers and an rel sub. That’s me finished. I have tinnitus too. So now I’m back to where I started it’s just a hobby folks. Something to do to keep the mind occupied. Have fun 🤩 don’t keep looking down the rabbit hole. Let’s just enjoy what we have and enjoy music itself including playing instruments and be happy with life. Peace out ✌️
I have a 5.1.4 home theater setup using the Sony A80L, Onkyo RZ50 and Polk R200's, R350, R100's, and 4 80F/X-RT's. When I start getting an itch to start spending money to upgrade my system, I escape the Hi-fi rabbit hole by going back and watching your review of the Polk R200's, which just helps remind me of how good those speakers are regardless of the price. The law of diminishing returns is a real thing and one we should all take seriously, well unless you're Carl, then you can spend recklessly. For the rest of us, I think sometimes we just need to remind ourselves why we purchased what we purchased and the joy it brought us when we first hit Play.
Question: would you be interested in getting out of the audiophile $$$ rabbit hole by talking more about affordable hi fi gear? When do you get into the territory of diminishing returns? Are hi fi reviewers contributing to an audiophile arms race by focusing on very expensive hi fi gear?
That Greg response was one of the best advices I have heard in decades. As a trumpet player, we struggle with similarities as Greg with our equipment (trumpet and mouthpices) with sound, the color of the sound, wants and requirements for the job. And how can we make the playing easier. Take the step back, make a list, see what you have and it checks off the list, then go from there. Thank you! Grady advice
Love that y'all are addressing how good the MiniDSP SHD is as a complete device. It truly simplifies things (minus the HDMI ARC oversight) to the point where I'm just using the SHD and 2 poweramps and it's (very nearly) everything I've ever needed.
Your response to Greg was awesome. That McIntosh amp is amazing, but trying to maximize what he already has might give him the sound he's searching for. I hope he finds his answer.
I started going down the amplifier rabbit hole but after watching your Musical fidelity reviews several times from a while back i finally bought the M8xi 3 months ago. Very similar to the mac amps in that it's a bargain for what you get although it's by no means cheap. Escaped the rabbit hole and filled it with concrete to stop me going back in.
Honestly, my cut off point is £1,000 - £1,500 per component, and currently it's about £600 per component. There are more important things to spend money on, like building a house. This is depressing tbh, the future of hi-fi is basically cheap Bluetooth speakers or stupidly expensive hi-fi? Anyone who thinks EQ is superfluous, needs to listen to the genelec ones with room correction DSP. If this tech is favoured in studios, why not hi-fi?
My suggestion to regular, not rich people, who wants to try out hifi: - Buy used... - ...When you find good value - Negotiate the price - only upgrade when you can sell your equipment for the same or higher price : ) The extra you make will make you feel okay for spending hundreds on cabling for instance.
‘Back in the day’ (us 76 year old audiophiles are allowed to say this with a straight face) I had a pair of stacked QUAD ELS-57 loudspeakers amplified by all QUAD electronics that I loved for what they did, but on nights and Saturdays when I worked part time at our military audio club in Germany as a Klipsch, among others, representative, I lusted after a pair of Klipsch LaScalas. My dream setup would have been a long rectangular listening room with the QUADs on one end with the LaScalas driven by tube McIntosh gear at the other with a big comfy swivel chair in the middle.
Kudos to Andrew and Kristi on addressing the 'Rabbit Hole' conundrum. As a 4-decade-plus sales guy/marketer, trying to walk that line is like pulling teeth with my customers, but once they get the gist of narrowing the field with a proper review of their system, best practices and closing the gap with a one-and-done curated set up, the end result can be awesome.
My system is very modest. Sony STRDH 190 receiver Sony PSLX 310 BT turntable hooked up with the Sony SSCS5 Speakers with the Onkyo DX C390 6 CD Changer total cost was $890 I think it sounds very good and meets for needs for the time being and my budget at the moment
When I was maybe 12, I was left alone in an architect’s study (while the adults chatted in another room) with a McIntosh system, a pair of La Scalas, and a stack of vinyl… that set the standard for me that I didn’t get for myself for another 40 years… worth the wait…
Thanks to your insight. I started my home theater journey. Very budget oriented. I bought the Onkyo tx-sr3100 for $249 and the Jamo s803 package for $200. Perfect for my small living room space. Thanks again!!
My inability to make decisions and tendency to research things to death has prolly been good for me. If you can never decide on what you want you never have trouble spending too much money 😂
Hi Andrew. You made a comment that I totally agree with you on. The most important thing in this world of audiophile music is the recording, the room and the speakers, the rest doesn't make a significant difference. Change a sound system from one room to another and you will really notice truly noticeable differences, especially if the new room has bad acoustics. I believe that it is not necessary to spend so much money to have a good sound system in which you can enjoy music. The problem with the stubborn audiophile is that he wants to enjoy the audio equipment more than the music and the moderately priced Hi Fi equipment does not satisfy him, it has to be high-priced Hi End equipment. Many spend too much money on High End sound equipment and have not realized that music is made in recording studios that do not have super powerful and expensive amplifiers, they use self-powered class D monitors. Thank you very much
Yes, the recording is key and then the room with all of its harmonics and resonances comes next, and then the loudspeaker and a suitable amp that can drive it with ease ...
Great video.....thanks. In the late 80's I was a Canadian dealer for Technics and was fortunate enough to be a guest of Technics for a week in Japan. In Canada we pronounce Technics as TECH NEEKS not TECH NICKS....no big deal but I notice it each time you reference Technics.....PS: keep up the good work you two.....Mike
After following your channel for the past few years, the one thing I realized is that my system is actually good. I learned that's its good. Would I want to upgrade my 5.1 system? Sure! Do I need to? Nope. Might get new stands to tweak my 2 fronts out but Greg, you awesome viewer you, don't worry about it. Relax and enjoy the music. Cheers you two!
Escape the Hifi Rabbit Hole??? Oh... Good show! Well considered! Upgrades... I tend toward frugality (I'm cheap!). I purchased an Onkyo Integra TX-88 receiver in 1987. It had some video switching capabilities and I was considering future proofing my setup. It's a wonderful receiver and my sister still has it. I had not planned on Dolby 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1, etc. I lusted for surround sound but based on my room stayed with stereo. It was the right decision for me - Music is more important than video. I upgraded to second hand Adcom separates that were wonderful for years, but the tuner/preamp refused to properly repaired. I resorted to my mother's Onkyo TX-810 (made around 1988) temporarily. It sounded fine. In fact it sounded at least as good as the Adcom components. Very clean and lyrical is the way I would describe the sound. We still have it in the bedroom powering some Mission 737's. Downstairs is a basic, but capable Yamaha A-S301 powering old JBL's. McIntosh, well yeah, if I win the lottery... Suppose I ought to buy some lottery tickets, but please re-read the above. I enjoy your reviews. Paul H. Huntington Beach, CA
I needed to hear this today. I’ve got a spare room full of audio equipment. I get off on new equipment but I pull it quick if I hear anything I don’t like. I need to switch my existing gear around before breaking out the credit card. Thx!
Love the discussion, as usual, guys! Digging the propping, colors, and composition of that shot of the Cornwall's, Mac's and the image you selected for the screen at 17:58. Chef's kiss on that one! 🤌
Thank you so much for your explanation. Now I finally understand why a mcintosh is double the price for half the channels and that it’s not just paying for brand names.
Have to agree with you Kristi on the “why should I?” regarding the Dragon comment. Now if only the FTC would stiffen their penalties for blatantly false advertising. 😂
The FTC just passed new rules on "fake" reviews. One of the new rulings includes penalties for brands who engage in shady behavior before, during, or after a review, including offering "gifts" for positive reviews. The rules also penalize companies that try to intimidate consumers/reviewers for negative marks.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I’d heard about that, and I think maybe it’s time to take a closer look at demonstrably false advertising claims, but I guess that raises the issue of who gets to validate the expertise of folks making such assessments; rather like fact checking political debates and social media pronouncements. So speaking of rabbit holes/cans of worms, that’s a subject best left alone? Anyways, have a great day - off for gardening work.
Macintosh is insanely priced in the UK, c55, that’ll be £12k and MC312, a snip at £10.5k. And I know the madness works the other way too! I just do not get why we kill each other with import duties.
Seams like from mediocer and up sound equipment room treatment becomes very important. And a lack of room treatment will not let a 100000$ setup sound better than a 5000$
It's pretty amazing to think the McIntosh gear can be considered a bargain in the arena it plays in. Considering an amp is something that may have decades of use, that price isn't looking nearly as bad. The Klipsch RF-7 III is their flagship Reference speaker positioned above the RP-8000 Reference Premiere speaker. It's as high as you can go in Klipsch without going Heritage or Pro. They're efficient, but do have a pretty big impedance dip that can make them harder for some amps to drive.
I've always been able to easily hear a difference between amps, but found it's much easier to hear on more difficult to drive speakers. When I had magnepans, the difference was night and day. When I tried them with a cheap AVR, they sounded awful. That said, I think people listen for different things. Some people simply aren't listening for the kind of differences that different amps would make. That's not bad, it's just not a priority for them.
Episode 21 of "Kristi and friend". Personally I love me some DSP. They're really fun but can get really technical, really fast. The last DSP I used was in a Kenwood car head unit but, Jesus, did it have adjustment for everything. Speaker size, location, car type, time alignment, PEQ, ect. Had to play with it for a while to get it right, but man, did it make a night and day difference.
I really appreciate your comments on the everpresent drive for better sound in our systems (that might not ever be fulfilled). I've learned to enjoy the RUclips reviewers such yourself, but it's also important to realize that I'm not you, nor am I in the same world as you are. Instead, you help me understand that there are always different ways and tweaks to better appreciate what I already have. Especially as I realize that I'll never be able to own (or even listen to) all new stuff coming out every year. I let myself enjoy knowing about all the stuff that's out there, and I try to use that knowledge to enjoy my system to maximum effect. I will eventually improve my system, but it's important to do it on my timeline, not every time I see a new review of an amp/receiver/speaker on RUclips. Not ashamed to say that's been a challenge at times.
To be honest, considering this is all a luxury, and you or I had the money, I would definitely get the MA12000, just because it’s a one unit, super integrated, more than enough power for practically anything, has HDMI. It’s basically an integrated to rule them all. Michi would be very close second, but lack of HDMI and modern stuff in it is just annoying. And that comes from someone who had the RA-1592, now dead, that I absolutely adored and still do. I know you wouldn’t want to oversaturate the channel with a single brand of course, but I would love a review and thoughts on the beast Mac super integrated. Absolutely lovely conversation I’m still listening to and watching. Hope everyone is having a lovely Friday and happy weekend everyone!🎉
Following all the feedback you and others have given me about it, I may have to request the MA120000. I agree; it looks like the ultimate one-and-done solution-at least right now. Still hurts my heart that your Rotel met an untimely end. Hope you're doing well!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I’ll never get over my Rotels death. Best amp I’ve ever owned. Maybe one day I’ll get another. (When they stick HDMI in. Maybe Mark4-5? 😂). It would be great to see if you think that integrated can compete head to head with this separates combo, especially at a much lower price. I’m doing well, thank you!😊
Greg’s comment was legendary. You guys should cut out Kristi’s section at the end of the Polk R700 review and make it the channel intro video. We all need to hear that discussion at least once a year.
The context in which you hear something is so important. I babysat a pair of vintage Lowthers years ago, after mostly owning entry- to mid-level Polk stuff. I've been chasing that "live" sound from the paper cone ever since. But I'll never experience that contrast between experience and newness again, no matter what I hear or buy.
Truly enjoyed the rabbit hole episode. I've been following you for a couple of years. And I truly believe that if you take time. Approach placement of speakers. And like me who has more than one amp I switched them around and above all be patient. I realize the music itself hasn't changed. We have. So I took the next 5 months to listen to music for a month or so at a time. Not swapping out just as soon as I didn't like it. Only to find out that some of the positions are wrong and a lot of my perspectives on how to approach my sound would change if I just gave it time. I appreciate you. Without being patient I would have lost so much ground and just spent more time moving stuff around than sitting down and really enjoying my systems. I realize now the best outcome just meant I had to take my time. Be patient. And I am enjoying the music. Thank you both for the great job you're doing!
Yes another great balanced video to curb some of our more excessive audiophool cravings. Manufacturing is primarily for maximising profits, and not for maximising performance. There is some correlation but it certainly is not a linear one. The recording, the room, the loudspeakers / amp combination etc etc Getting all this right needs help and someone with experience could prove invaluable.
With the Eversolo A8 I'm running the preamp Balanced XLR outputs into my AMP because it has more gain than the RCA outputs do. The A8 is GREAT at taking the edge off my electrostatic speakers. I was initially worried when I changed DAC's, but what I found was that the A8's DAC is an absolutely great match for electrostatics speakers and my Martin Logans sound better than ever. Importantly there were some tracks that sounded a harsh before and now sound wonderful. I'm using the full Swiss army knife of the A8. I have a 4Tb M.2 drive plugged directly into it with my high resolution uncompressed files. I use it to stream music. I use the DAC. I use the preamp. I'm still experimenting with the DSP. I got the A8 when it was first released about a year ago and I've had no regrets. I don't intend to change a thing on my stereo at this point until something wears out. I'm perfectly content which is a great place to be. Part of the Draw is that my wife can easily drive our stereo from her phone now so our stereo gets a lot more use by both of us.
Thanks Andrew! It seams I couldn't escape this purchasing rabbit hole, but there are these "aha" moments like this when someone like you somehow resets me back to factory settings and to what it's all about, which is enjoying music. On the other hand, I suppose many of us also thoroughly enjoy flipping equipment, getting new stuff in, hearing something different. And why not? It's legit as long as it's not the whole purpose and you have your audio goals well defined.
I love the McIntosh vs Yamaha conversation! I have a Yamaha Aventage rx-a780 receiver, and I am very pleased with the sound that I get from it in 7 channel stereo. I had a fellow audiophile over for a listening session. He had Wharfedale speakers paired to a Luxman integrated amplifier. At some point during the listening session, he turns to me and says. "I have 8k put into my system, and it doesn't sound better than yours." I was very surprised to hear this from him! So the person who wrote about his experience with the Yamaha vs the Mcintosh...this doesn't surprise me at all. Yamaha makes great sounding products!
Well.... I'm a lucky guy. This is what I have. PS Audio Stellar Plant - Eversolo A8 - PS Audio Stellar Gold DAC - PS Audio Stellar Preamp - Parasound JC5 - Mofi 888. This sounds amazing to my ears and I'm not spending one more dollar on my system anytime soon. My wife is watching me all the time! 🙂 My journey ends here (hopefully) You mentioned Parasound as a "second class" audio components maker, but let me tell you this: JC5 was designed by John Curl and to me, sounds amazing. I wish I could have Macs but like I said, my wife is watching me like a hawk! 🙂
This is a big problem for me also... I have Yamaha A S2100 with Sonetto V. And if i buy mcintosh amp i expect to be better ! It costs like 2-3x as much . And i kinda dont accept that there is no difference in sound because of speakers.. something must be different. And how based by that you can justify to spend 2x amount on amp and get the same sound than blaming rest of equipment. I know that everything matthers but ..i tried 2 diff dacs 1 is 2x price than another and didnt get any wow factor. I love music but things like this makes me question everything.. How to make good decisions and not waste hard earned money for no improvement ://
I purchased a Parasound A31 to do double duty for the front LCR in my home theater and for 2 channel listening when when I want. I went from an avr with 150 watts for two channels to 250 watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms. I'm driving Revel F206 speakers with a sensitivity of 88.5, and WOW! The Parasound lit them up. The stage increased in height, depth and width. The width takes my breath away. I, like most others, would love to have the McIntosh, but I love my wife. LOL.
I like my McIntosh MA8900. Wanted to replace it, but it is really difficult to find other gear that will beat the Mac on all parameters. The musicality of the McIntosh is amazing.
Its extensive features aside, it's really not that hard to find an amp with its power and noise and distortion levels. For a fifth or a tenth of the price.
@@ropeburn6684 I listened to many. Decided to keep that Mac sound. I just love it. Moon, Aavik, Octave. They have some advantages on the Mac. But not have the weight and musicality of the Mac.
@@ropeburn6684 Didn’t work for me. I think McIntosh is underpriced. Not overpriced. Sounds “to die for” , powerful, has good DAC and phono MM/MC, has tone control, power guard feature. Good selling value. Looks expensive. Reliable.
Guys.. your take on the whole, over thinking and/or over buying issue is for real!!! 🎉 thank you for taking a moment to help some of us get our feet back on the ground when delving into the rabbit hole when it comes to this stuff!! My prob is, when it comes down to actually buying something, I’ve over researched and find myself NOT pulling the trigger on buying something. 🎉. Cheers
That McIntosh kit is really drool worthy! Short of a lottery win I'm never going to spend £12000 on a pre-amp and £11,000 on an amp. The MA 252 Hybrid amp has been on my wish list for a long time! 5K new and around 3K in the 2nd hand market its attainable to the average joe.
Listening to Andrew its sounds like there quite a mark-up on Mckintosh products here in the UK. For instance the MC312 is selling at around £10,500 ($13,800) whereas the same amp in the US is $7500. That's quite the markup!!!
I really love your thoughtful reply to your viewer who was dissatisfied with his system after watching reviews. Just brilliant and helpful. I have a Willsenton 300b tube amp with ifi zen signature dacs with Bose 901's w/supertweeters and a sub, then I got 4 B&O Level speakers using 2 wiim's. Wiim does the dsp for the bose reflective array, and the b&o does the live dsp for the 4 speakers that I can move around. I tried the Levels because of your review. Now I have a really niche system that works great in a small 100 year old house with plaster and heartwood. It sounds unreal and better than half million dollar systems that I have heard and installed for others, due to how it blends into the room and uses reflection and dsp to create sound that you can shape at will w/ portable satellites. Mac does not sell the gear that does what this does and I love their sound... but I need a bigger room to get benefit from it. As it stands, I have portasbles I can bring into the kitchen and they will auto level now, the bass and rest of the umph will come from the 300b and the modified bose 901's in the livingroom. This is convenient affordable Hifi.
Regarding the question about buying this Macintosh after watching the review, I agree that it shouldn’t buy the McIntosh expecting huge differences, unless that purchase is done on the same concept as buying an expensive watch (i.e. you want it and you can afford it for whatever emotional reason, and not performance alone). As much as I do respect Andrew’s take on any product, and and as much unbiased as we all really may want to be, it’s very hard for us (as humans) not to appreciate all the visual cues and build quality, which severely impacts what we are really “listening”. It’s not even a choice for us, as humans. 😉 The only way to be 100% sure that all the audibles differences are really there is to setup a blind test, which is very hard to accomplish on usual reviewing conditions. The job of any amplifier is to increase the input signal by a huge factor, without introducing any sound of its own. I’m sure that the little Wiim amp does sound different, specially as power needs increase, but on this high level of amplifiers, we shouldn’t expect huge differences if both designs being compared were done properly. If two amps with similar specs sound very different at this price point, at least on of them have to be doing something wrong to the signal, even if it ends up sounding “better”. The most effective way of drastically changing the sound of any audio system is to change the speakers. No matter how expensive or inexpensive any pair of speakers are, and you’ll _always_ hear the differences. While amplifiers (above a minimum standard of quality) have basically no frequency response deviations, and insignificant THD percentages, there’s no speaker on earth that can achieve nothing remotely similar, even those who cost most than many houses. On top of their own response, they will all interact differently with every room and even listening position. So, unless anyone is using a _really_ poorly designed dac/streamer or amplifier, changing those parts of the signal chain will be insanely less sonically obvious than replacing the loudspeakers, even inside the same brand and series. It’s no wonder that this viewer changed amplifiers and didn’t notice an huge difference.
23 years ago when I was just finishing high school I bought a set of Energy C5's. Not the best, but I'd argue, close to top value for the budget I had. I wanted a set of Veritas, (loved the 1" dome tweeter combined with the 2" aluminium mid dome design) but no way as a school kid I could afford that. Now all these years later a set of made in Canada Veritas 2.3i's came up for sale locally for a great price. Sold to me😊 Are they the best. No. But they're the best for me, got my child hood desire. Endgame, done. Don't chase the dragon. Just enjoy the music.
Bang and Olufsen speakers and soundbars are great for people who want to try different sound signatures (neutral, warm etc and anything in between)without having to change equipment thanks to its app. It makes me wonder why other companies don’t do this rather than being trapped with a particular sound, it would save a lot of issues and reduce returns.
$30K Parasound. Someone at Parasound needs to double check the mushrooms they're picking in the garden. Common sense is to select a newer high end name and to build a new high end personna. like Mishi did. They didnt do that. They even still used the same ho-hum boring face plate style like their cheap amps. How about a nice new facia and a couple meters. Give the customer SOMETHING.
Almost all pre-amps do provide some small level of amplification, but obviously not anywhere near as much as a power amp. A tube pre-amp will sound different than a solid-state pre-amp for this reason (assuming that a neutral solid state amp is being used). There are a very few pre-amps that act in passive mode only and only do input switching, and a few that can be passive or active depending on your preference.
Best way would be not to watch reviews, read online forums, browse hifi shops, go to hifi events that can only live and prosper with proposing new stuff all the time. And we will learn to be satisfied with what we have. Would we?
Andrew you never cease to amaze me with your technical and in room experience, I find your vids both informative and enjoyable to watch . I only wish my wife enjoyed the beauty of music played as it should be, simply and beautifully . I finally got to listen to the Marantz M1, that little box is witchcraft and I want one, how better does music Tv movie viewing get with this gem . Thankyoun
I thought I was going to be an audiophile. I kept buying speakers and different electronics. One day I was talking with my wife and came to the realization that I loved Klipsch. I spent far to much time listening to "audiophiles" and their hate of Klipsch. I went and listened to serveral speakers and ended up buy the Cornwsll IVs and 3 years later I still have then and I am happy with them. I still have my maggies, JBLs, and B1+ bookshelves but got rid of the Wharfdales. Long story short, be true to yourself and don't listen to the BS you hear on forums etc.
Never understood why anyone would make decisions based on you tube videos. I've watched the finest speakers play Wilson,PSB, you name it. The sound is coming out of my system!!! Of course 10k speakers are gonna look great. Plus, youtubes audio is not the best.
Last week was the 30th anniversary of the release of Natural Born Killers. I had such a great night in the home theater. Movies like that are why i built my system. Big thanks to Shout!Factory for releasing a great 4k of NBK. That film was a huge part of my teenage years, and beyond. I havent been the same since i saw it on vhs in Moms basement in 1995 in the “appropriate ” state of human consciousness. Boundaries dissolved. Mind blown. And it still works in 2024. Spoiler alert. The main story isnt really about Mickey and Mallory.
For my movie theater and music listening wants, performance-per dollar is an important factor for me when it comes to amplifiers. I prefer am amp to be neutral and not to alter the sound in any way, but without costing a fortune.
For me, I having a collection I'm satisfied it ended my journey on headphone& iem searching, I owning a couple and swapping it with my mood of the day completely erases my desire to buy new gear. On speaker tho, I stayed with my kef lsx with sub, due to space constraint really.
My two cents, I love all the gear, all the bling, and the technical jargon, it’s just fun and you really help it all make sense. I would buy the McIntosh but I don’t think I want the last amp I’ll ever need, lol.
If it's there for another couple months, sounds like you need to get a hold of an M66....try out that pairing. Bluos, dirac, the works. more cosmetically flashy too like the MAC.
I'd love to have an entire rack full of McIntosh gear...but I simply can't afford it. ...and I don't know that I'd actually buy the stuff even if I could afford to do so. Maybe pre-owned stuff...
Glad you mentioned the room on that (long question) person's query ... perhaps what they *could* do ... if they're intent on spending money ... is to treat the room?
I think most of us have been Greg. I know I have. I think it is a natural stage of evolving in this hobby. Your own ignorance to what is possible and what your own preferences are leads to wanting to experiment. With this hobby that can get real expensive, really fast. I think you gave Greg great advice.
Most of us are/were/will be Greg. I completely identify with him and the solution was EXACTLY what Andrew described. Take a pause, sell stuff, go and listen at a shop, and eventually don't buy it and reconsider :).
How clear was that:) You beautifully nailed the risk of falling down the rabbit hole. Like most things in life there's compromise, but reaffirmation of knowing what you want and not chasing perfection leads to musical enjoyment. And, in the end ... isn't that the true emotional experience that music can bring to our lives. When guests cry out or even shed a tear listening to music, then what's not to like. Keep up your informed and humourous banter.
To the fellow with the Klipsch RF7-3s… my pair is glorious. Give em some time. Ive paired them with several amps and i love them more every time i hear em. Low wattage, high wattage, they sing. Just one mans opinion here. I couldnt really afford em when i got em. But i was glad i did. Are there better speakers? Yes. But In that price range, the RF7s are no slouch. Ive used a separates system and ive had no complaints.
I still have my original RF-7s, back when those were the new thing and still love them, hard to believe I had those things for over 20 years now, but still love these the day I brought them home. I felt no need to ever upgrade. Now, I am currently using Emotiva amps to drive them, but I used to have a B&K Reference 200.7 amp, which ended up dying, and could not find anyone that could repair it. Really sucks as I loved that amp and thought it sounded awesome with the Klipsch. Now, the Emotiva XPA-DR3 that I currently have does sound really good, but still do miss that B&K amp. On top of that, my Pioneer Elite N-50 DAC/Streamer died and again, could not get it repaired, so ended up replacing that with an Eversolo DMP-A6 Master Edition. Also to add, I am using a Marantz AV-8802A as my pre-amp/processor, which I've also now had a for a few years, and again, found no need to currently upgrade.
Hello Andrew n Kristi. I had to ask only because I saw their soundbar on the cover of this video. Did you ever hear back from Ray? I highly doubt it, but I figured I’d ask. Also, on Avs forums, whoever is the main person in charge has totally edited out many of the bad reviews and comments regarding how Nakamichi’s deception and blatant lies affected lots of people. There has to be the good and the bad when reviewing a product, especially when it’s very expensive. I believe that’s why you went so thoroughly into your review because you saw a company getting away with utter bullsh”” and straight up claims that you proved were wrong with actual evidence. I know you want to end that part of your reviews and said you were done with them and I just wanted to again say thank you for saving a good amount of people from going down that path!
Thank you for a great review! The chemistry between you both brings an extra layer that is both informative and entertaining. Maybe I missed it, but how does the combo compare with the MA7200 integrated you reviewed ?
Great answer on the EQ idea. As for Greg's comments, I get where he's coming from. When I bought my Mac gear (C2300 preamp, MC501 monoblocks), I knew I could stop there; my 501s are my forever amps. But having been alerted to the C55 and its tube brother the C2800, I begin to consider an upgrade. Not because I'm running after everything I see; it's a practical concern. The C55/2800 would give me more connectivity options, a phonostage that's as good or maybe better (?) as the 2300's, and a DAC should I go in a digital direction with my setup. I am in the midst of my "last" go-round with stereo equipment (hoping to retire in acouple of years), and at one point was overwhelmed with purchase options (speakers, turntable, phono preamp, cables, etc.). I have pulled out my "Vulcan" mindset to take a more practical approach. Starting with how much I'm comfortable spending, then what makes sense for my system AND life, all things considered. INCLUDING my current room.
Just want to say thank you for all you’re advice . Watching your videos we picked up a marantz m1 . B&w 705s3 . And svs 3000 micro and I’m honestly blown away with how good the combo is I took you’re advice on dropping the treble 1 click to try mimic the 805d4 to Any advice on how to get virtual mode on the m1 tho ? Using AirPlay I can’t get it to work . I only have stereo or duel mono
I think you have to differentiate between the Eversolo A8 which probably has very little gain and just controls the volume, and the McIntoch C55 which has more gain as well as controlling the volume. That could explain your preference for the C55 when trying to make fine adjustments.
Three years ago Andrew reviewed the Beosound Level and mentioned speaking to B&O about whether the Level could ever be used as part of a surround sound system. You where told possibly and by just a software upgrade. In some 40 days (November 2024), announced at CEDIA Expo 2024, B&O will launch Beolink Surround which seems to use a Beosound Theatre with Emerge, Level, Balance etc as front, rear and satellite speakers. The special deal on these speakers ends 31st October :) In March 2024 the Mozart platform introduced low latency via the 3.5 mm input to a single speaker this opened up the chance to use the speakers with any video source, TV or computer and be in synch. Beolink is already used in multi-room (all speakers in synch to the same music) will alternately offer multi-channel.
How good do the speakers need to be for the McIntosh to be worth it? Is pairing them with Monolith or Polk crazy? Looking at 11+ channels and speakers add up.
🔌 Check out the FULL MCINTOSH REVIEW here The SOUND of PERFECTION -- McIntosh C55 and MC312 Review
📌 Check out the C55 and MC312 from McIntosh here bit.ly/4bv5wT7 & bit.ly/3xJAY1Y
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Dear Mr. Robinson.
If possible I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the MC312, and really current high end amps in general, vs something a little older like a ML 532.H?
I returned my McIntosh C49 because although it's prettier than my Parasound 2100, it didn't sound better.
The VU meters are pretty but not useful such as the EQ spectrum equalizer in my Eversolo DMP-A6 which tells me what hz is played in a song so I can match it to speakers.
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source=Apple Music lossless
Its one of the few videos of yours I didn't watch as I knew they would be Farout of my budget range and hearing they cost $7,500USD so like $10,000+ AUD each, my assumption was proven right.
McIntosh overpriced gear 1:38
Waiting for your review of MacIntosh MA352 …please….. Don’t have $$$ for MAC7200
*Happy Friday! Thank you for taking the time to join us. Andrew and I really do appreciate it.*
Although I have missed a couple, it’s really hard to do. Always happy to join y’all!
@@gavriushka The comment section is always better when you do! Hope all is well.
@@KristiWright
Thank you!😇
hope everything is good with y’all as well!
We appreciate you two and all the help you give us on audio/video gear ❤
Came a little late today! Still a great watch !
This is why I've been a fan of Andrew Robinson for decades. He is gifted with painting a picture of his experience with different gear that doesn't sound like mumbo jumbo or esoteric BS. His wealth of knowledge as a reviewer is extensive enough to reach both novices and long time audiophiles. Bringing the listening environment's role in the playback experience is key for all of us to remember and address. Phenomenonal video.
The best way to avoid the audiophile rabbit hole. Spend what you can on a system. Then have no money left to upgrade, and enjoy what you do have. From photos I’ve seen on hifi groups on Facebook, most people have very adequate systems, but have totally inadequate layouts / positioning for speakers. Any upgrades are a waste of money because of this.
The biggest hifi trap is when you sit down to listen to the system instead of the music there are a lot of people who have climbed the hifi ladder to land up selling it again because they realised they were not enjoying the music on the vast majority of their cds or records etc as the recording was not the best this is a real issue when you have really good system as a lot of recordings are simply not great so listening to them on a good system is frustrating that is the real danger with hifi
Yes, it's so easy to forget this when you see some cool looking gear in front of you.
There’s a lot of great advice spread throughout this video that goes far beyond the Mac gear. I think this is the best ‘unplugged’ episode to date!
Thanks Greg for being honest. I have been there and Andrew's advice of moving speakers around and changing some things around really does help and can make your speakers sound better.
I'm just here for the Dragon smack down and you guys didn't disappoint 😂
Shhhh people chasing .00000001% improvements gets the rest of us good gear for cheap.
Lol, truth!!
Escape the hifi rabbit hole. I couldn’t agree more. I’ve tried for 53 years to get audio nirvana it didn’t happen it started from being inquisitive to buy from the start of my hifi journey to being compulsion to buy and then addiction then I came to my sences and brought a wiim amp with two mission bookshelf speakers and an rel sub. That’s me finished. I have tinnitus too. So now I’m back to where I started it’s just a hobby folks. Something to do to keep the mind occupied. Have fun 🤩 don’t keep looking down the rabbit hole. Let’s just enjoy what we have and enjoy music itself including playing instruments and be happy with life. Peace out ✌️
I did. I stopped buying new gear years ago and just enjoy what I’ve got. Happy listening! 😀
I have a 5.1.4 home theater setup using the Sony A80L, Onkyo RZ50 and Polk R200's, R350, R100's, and 4 80F/X-RT's. When I start getting an itch to start spending money to upgrade my system, I escape the Hi-fi rabbit hole by going back and watching your review of the Polk R200's, which just helps remind me of how good those speakers are regardless of the price. The law of diminishing returns is a real thing and one we should all take seriously, well unless you're Carl, then you can spend recklessly. For the rest of us, I think sometimes we just need to remind ourselves why we purchased what we purchased and the joy it brought us when we first hit Play.
Question: would you be interested in getting out of the audiophile $$$ rabbit hole by talking more about affordable hi fi gear? When do you get into the territory of diminishing returns? Are hi fi reviewers contributing to an audiophile arms race by focusing on very expensive hi fi gear?
We have always covered budget-friendly products. Here's a playlist for you to watch those videos: bit.ly/2MhHm93
That Greg response was one of the best advices I have heard in decades. As a trumpet player, we struggle with similarities as Greg with our equipment (trumpet and mouthpices) with sound, the color of the sound, wants and requirements for the job. And how can we make the playing easier. Take the step back, make a list, see what you have and it checks off the list, then go from there. Thank you! Grady advice
Love that y'all are addressing how good the MiniDSP SHD is as a complete device. It truly simplifies things (minus the HDMI ARC oversight) to the point where I'm just using the SHD and 2 poweramps and it's (very nearly) everything I've ever needed.
The SHD is AMAZING. And the new miniDSP Flex HTx is essentially the SHD but with HDMI. I may pick one up because it may remain permanently installed 😉
Your response to Greg was awesome. That McIntosh amp is amazing, but trying to maximize what he already has might give him the sound he's searching for. I hope he finds his answer.
I started going down the amplifier rabbit hole but after watching your Musical fidelity reviews several times from a while back i finally bought the M8xi 3 months ago. Very similar to the mac amps in that it's a bargain for what you get although it's by no means cheap. Escaped the rabbit hole and filled it with concrete to stop me going back in.
Honestly, my cut off point is £1,000 - £1,500 per component, and currently it's about £600 per component. There are more important things to spend money on, like building a house.
This is depressing tbh, the future of hi-fi is basically cheap Bluetooth speakers or stupidly expensive hi-fi?
Anyone who thinks EQ is superfluous, needs to listen to the genelec ones with room correction DSP. If this tech is favoured in studios, why not hi-fi?
My suggestion to regular, not rich people, who wants to try out hifi:
- Buy used...
- ...When you find good value
- Negotiate the price
- only upgrade when you can sell your equipment for the same or higher price : )
The extra you make will make you feel okay for spending hundreds on cabling for instance.
‘Back in the day’ (us 76 year old audiophiles are allowed to say this with a straight face) I had a pair of stacked QUAD ELS-57 loudspeakers amplified by all QUAD electronics that I loved for what they did, but on nights and Saturdays when I worked part time at our military audio club in Germany as a Klipsch, among others, representative, I lusted after a pair of Klipsch LaScalas. My dream setup would have been a long rectangular listening room with the QUADs on one end with the LaScalas driven by tube McIntosh gear at the other with a big comfy swivel chair in the middle.
Kudos to Andrew and Kristi on addressing the 'Rabbit Hole' conundrum. As a 4-decade-plus sales guy/marketer, trying to walk that line is like pulling teeth with my customers, but once they get the gist of narrowing the field with a proper review of their system, best practices and closing the gap with a one-and-done curated set up, the end result can be awesome.
My system is very modest. Sony STRDH 190 receiver Sony PSLX 310 BT turntable hooked up with the Sony SSCS5 Speakers with the Onkyo DX C390 6 CD Changer total cost was $890 I think it sounds very good and meets for needs for the time being and my budget at the moment
When I was maybe 12, I was left alone in an architect’s study (while the adults chatted in another room) with a McIntosh system, a pair of La Scalas, and a stack of vinyl… that set the standard for me that I didn’t get for myself for another 40 years… worth the wait…
I'm not surprised that the experience was burned into your memory. Glad you were able to achieve your hifi goals later in life!
Thanks to your insight. I started my home theater journey. Very budget oriented. I bought the Onkyo tx-sr3100 for $249 and the Jamo s803 package for $200. Perfect for my small living room space. Thanks again!!
My inability to make decisions and tendency to research things to death has prolly been good for me. If you can never decide on what you want you never have trouble spending too much money 😂
Hi Andrew.
You made a comment that I totally agree with you on. The most important thing in this world of audiophile music is the recording, the room and the speakers, the rest doesn't make a significant difference.
Change a sound system from one room to another and you will really notice truly noticeable differences, especially if the new room has bad acoustics.
I believe that it is not necessary to spend so much money to have a good sound system in which you can enjoy music. The problem with the stubborn audiophile is that he wants to enjoy the audio equipment more than the music and the moderately priced Hi Fi equipment does not satisfy him, it has to be high-priced Hi End equipment.
Many spend too much money on High End sound equipment and have not realized that music is made in recording studios that do not have super powerful and expensive amplifiers, they use self-powered class D monitors.
Thank you very much
Yes, the recording is key and then the room with all of its harmonics and resonances comes next, and then the loudspeaker and a suitable amp that can drive it with ease ...
Great video.....thanks. In the late 80's I was a Canadian dealer for Technics and was fortunate enough to be a guest of Technics for a week in Japan. In Canada we pronounce Technics as TECH NEEKS not TECH NICKS....no big deal but I notice it each time you reference Technics.....PS: keep up the good work you two.....Mike
After following your channel for the past few years, the one thing I realized is that my system is actually good. I learned that's its good. Would I want to upgrade my 5.1 system? Sure! Do I need to? Nope. Might get new stands to tweak my 2 fronts out but Greg, you awesome viewer you, don't worry about it. Relax and enjoy the music. Cheers you two!
I think you've arrived at a good place and can look at the hobby and potential future changes to your system more objectively by having your mindset.
I owe that to your insight, experience, honesty, no bs and view of this hobby. My Carl has backed off. Lol. Great job as always to you both.
Escape the Hifi Rabbit Hole??? Oh... Good show! Well considered! Upgrades... I tend toward frugality (I'm cheap!). I purchased an Onkyo Integra TX-88 receiver in 1987. It had some video switching capabilities and I was considering future proofing my setup. It's a wonderful receiver and my sister still has it. I had not planned on Dolby 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1, etc. I lusted for surround sound but based on my room stayed with stereo. It was the right decision for me - Music is more important than video. I upgraded to second hand Adcom separates that were wonderful for years, but the tuner/preamp refused to properly repaired. I resorted to my mother's Onkyo TX-810 (made around 1988) temporarily. It sounded fine. In fact it sounded at least as good as the Adcom components. Very clean and lyrical is the way I would describe the sound. We still have it in the bedroom powering some Mission 737's. Downstairs is a basic, but capable Yamaha A-S301 powering old JBL's. McIntosh, well yeah, if I win the lottery... Suppose I ought to buy some lottery tickets, but please re-read the above. I enjoy your reviews.
Paul H.
Huntington Beach, CA
"You can't guarantee performance based on price." Love this!
I needed to hear this today. I’ve got a spare room full of audio equipment. I get off on new equipment but I pull it quick if I hear anything I don’t like. I need to switch my existing gear around before breaking out the credit card. Thx!
Love the discussion, as usual, guys! Digging the propping, colors, and composition of that shot of the Cornwall's, Mac's and the image you selected for the screen at 17:58. Chef's kiss on that one! 🤌
Andrew is a master behind the camera. I know he'll appreciate your comment!
Thank you so much for your explanation. Now I finally understand why a mcintosh is double the price for half the channels and that it’s not just paying for brand names.
My apologies for not seeing this sooner. We really appreciate the extra support.
Simple truth, the science and engineering of sound reproduction is a very mature field. It doesn't take much to get good sound, period.
Have to agree with you Kristi on the “why should I?” regarding the Dragon comment. Now if only the FTC would stiffen their penalties for blatantly false advertising. 😂
The FTC just passed new rules on "fake" reviews. One of the new rulings includes penalties for brands who engage in shady behavior before, during, or after a review, including offering "gifts" for positive reviews. The rules also penalize companies that try to intimidate consumers/reviewers for negative marks.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I’d heard about that, and I think maybe it’s time to take a closer look at demonstrably false advertising claims, but I guess that raises the issue of who gets to validate the expertise of folks making such assessments; rather like fact checking political debates and social media pronouncements. So speaking of rabbit holes/cans of worms, that’s a subject best left alone?
Anyways, have a great day - off for gardening work.
There is some equipment that is worth the price. Just because some can't afford it doesn't diminish it's value. Andrew recognizes this.
I appreciate your channel very much and my conversations with Carl recently. You and Kristi are awesome.
Thank you so much for watching. Your contribution means a lot to us, and I'm glad you're enjoying yourself here.
Macintosh is insanely priced in the UK, c55, that’ll be £12k and MC312, a snip at £10.5k. And I know the madness works the other way too! I just do not get why we kill each other with import duties.
Seams like from mediocer and up sound equipment room treatment becomes very important. And a lack of room treatment will not let a 100000$ setup sound better than a 5000$
It's pretty amazing to think the McIntosh gear can be considered a bargain in the arena it plays in. Considering an amp is something that may have decades of use, that price isn't looking nearly as bad.
The Klipsch RF-7 III is their flagship Reference speaker positioned above the RP-8000 Reference Premiere speaker. It's as high as you can go in Klipsch without going Heritage or Pro.
They're efficient, but do have a pretty big impedance dip that can make them harder for some amps to drive.
I've always been able to easily hear a difference between amps, but found it's much easier to hear on more difficult to drive speakers. When I had magnepans, the difference was night and day. When I tried them with a cheap AVR, they sounded awful.
That said, I think people listen for different things. Some people simply aren't listening for the kind of differences that different amps would make. That's not bad, it's just not a priority for them.
Episode 21 of "Kristi and friend". Personally I love me some DSP. They're really fun but can get really technical, really fast. The last DSP I used was in a Kenwood car head unit but, Jesus, did it have adjustment for everything. Speaker size, location, car type, time alignment, PEQ, ect. Had to play with it for a while to get it right, but man, did it make a night and day difference.
If I won the Powerball, one of the first purchases would be an all McIntosh setup.
Legacy speakers
It'd be an anechoic chamber for me.
I'll never afford it, but McIntosh is a big temptation for me because it's (until recently) been local for me.
Me too!
McIntosch is also a great resale. It is a bit like some old sportscar that will resale for more than the MSRP in 1990.
I really appreciate your comments on the everpresent drive for better sound in our systems (that might not ever be fulfilled). I've learned to enjoy the RUclips reviewers such yourself, but it's also important to realize that I'm not you, nor am I in the same world as you are. Instead, you help me understand that there are always different ways and tweaks to better appreciate what I already have. Especially as I realize that I'll never be able to own (or even listen to) all new stuff coming out every year. I let myself enjoy knowing about all the stuff that's out there, and I try to use that knowledge to enjoy my system to maximum effect. I will eventually improve my system, but it's important to do it on my timeline, not every time I see a new review of an amp/receiver/speaker on RUclips. Not ashamed to say that's been a challenge at times.
To be honest, considering this is all a luxury, and you or I had the money, I would definitely get the MA12000, just because it’s a one unit, super integrated, more than enough power for practically anything, has HDMI. It’s basically an integrated to rule them all. Michi would be very close second, but lack of HDMI and modern stuff in it is just annoying. And that comes from someone who had the RA-1592, now dead, that I absolutely adored and still do. I know you wouldn’t want to oversaturate the channel with a single brand of course, but I would love a review and thoughts on the beast Mac super integrated.
Absolutely lovely conversation I’m still listening to and watching. Hope everyone is having a lovely Friday and happy weekend everyone!🎉
Following all the feedback you and others have given me about it, I may have to request the MA120000. I agree; it looks like the ultimate one-and-done solution-at least right now. Still hurts my heart that your Rotel met an untimely end. Hope you're doing well!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I’ll never get over my Rotels death. Best amp I’ve ever owned. Maybe one day I’ll get another. (When they stick HDMI in. Maybe Mark4-5? 😂).
It would be great to see if you think that integrated can compete head to head with this separates combo, especially at a much lower price. I’m doing well, thank you!😊
Greg’s comment was legendary.
You guys should cut out Kristi’s section at the end of the Polk R700 review and make it the channel intro video. We all need to hear that discussion at least once a year.
I admire your clarity. What a great channel.
Thanks! Appreciate you watching!
The cheap gear is sufficient for most. Mid priced products appeal to guys who love audio but wife won’t let them spend on higher end gear.
The context in which you hear something is so important. I babysat a pair of vintage Lowthers years ago, after mostly owning entry- to mid-level Polk stuff.
I've been chasing that "live" sound from the paper cone ever since. But I'll never experience that contrast between experience and newness again, no matter what I hear or buy.
Truly enjoyed the rabbit hole episode. I've been following you for a couple of years. And I truly believe that if you take time. Approach placement of speakers. And like me who has more than one amp I switched them around and above all be patient. I realize the music itself hasn't changed. We have. So I took the next 5 months to listen to music for a month or so at a time. Not swapping out just as soon as I didn't like it. Only to find out that some of the positions are wrong and a lot of my perspectives on how to approach my sound would change if I just gave it time. I appreciate you. Without being patient I would have lost so much ground and just spent more time moving stuff around than sitting down and really enjoying my systems. I realize now the best outcome just meant I had to take my time. Be patient. And I am enjoying the music. Thank you both for the great job you're doing!
Yes another great balanced video to curb some of our more excessive audiophool cravings.
Manufacturing is primarily for maximising profits, and not for maximising performance.
There is some correlation but it certainly is not a linear one.
The recording, the room, the loudspeakers / amp combination etc etc
Getting all this right needs help and someone with experience could prove invaluable.
Happy with my WiiM Ultra and Parasound a21 amp. Just going to get speakers upgrades going forward.
With the Eversolo A8 I'm running the preamp Balanced XLR outputs into my AMP because it has more gain than the RCA outputs do. The A8 is GREAT at taking the edge off my electrostatic speakers. I was initially worried when I changed DAC's, but what I found was that the A8's DAC is an absolutely great match for electrostatics speakers and my Martin Logans sound better than ever. Importantly there were some tracks that sounded a harsh before and now sound wonderful.
I'm using the full Swiss army knife of the A8. I have a 4Tb M.2 drive plugged directly into it with my high resolution uncompressed files. I use it to stream music. I use the DAC. I use the preamp. I'm still experimenting with the DSP. I got the A8 when it was first released about a year ago and I've had no regrets. I don't intend to change a thing on my stereo at this point until something wears out. I'm perfectly content which is a great place to be.
Part of the Draw is that my wife can easily drive our stereo from her phone now so our stereo gets a lot more use by both of us.
I look forward to these discussions. Super cool and informative. Thanks to you both!!
Thank you for watching.
Thanks Andrew!
It seams I couldn't escape this purchasing rabbit hole, but there are these "aha" moments like this when someone like you somehow resets me back to factory settings and to what it's all about, which is enjoying music.
On the other hand, I suppose many of us also thoroughly enjoy flipping equipment, getting new stuff in, hearing something different. And why not? It's legit as long as it's not the whole purpose and you have your audio goals well defined.
I love the McIntosh vs Yamaha conversation! I have a Yamaha Aventage rx-a780 receiver, and I am very pleased with the sound that I get from it in 7 channel stereo. I had a fellow audiophile over for a listening session. He had Wharfedale speakers paired to a Luxman integrated amplifier. At some point during the listening session, he turns to me and says. "I have 8k put into my system, and it doesn't sound better than yours."
I was very surprised to hear this from him!
So the person who wrote about his experience with the Yamaha vs the Mcintosh...this doesn't surprise me at all. Yamaha makes great sounding products!
Well.... I'm a lucky guy. This is what I have.
PS Audio Stellar Plant - Eversolo A8 - PS Audio Stellar Gold DAC - PS Audio Stellar Preamp - Parasound JC5 - Mofi 888.
This sounds amazing to my ears and I'm not spending one more dollar on my system anytime soon. My wife is watching me all the time! 🙂
My journey ends here (hopefully) You mentioned Parasound as a "second class" audio components maker, but let me tell you this: JC5 was designed by John Curl and to me, sounds amazing. I wish I could have Macs but like I said, my wife is watching me like a hawk! 🙂
THANKS ANDREW ,KRISTI 🤗 The budget has always helped me from going down the rabbit hole.😅💚💚💚
This is a big problem for me also... I have Yamaha A S2100 with Sonetto V. And if i buy mcintosh amp i expect to be better ! It costs like 2-3x as much . And i kinda dont accept that there is no difference in sound because of speakers.. something must be different. And how based by that you can justify to spend 2x amount on amp and get the same sound than blaming rest of equipment. I know that everything matthers but ..i tried 2 diff dacs 1 is 2x price than another and didnt get any wow factor. I love music but things like this makes me question everything.. How to make good decisions and not waste hard earned money for no improvement ://
I purchased a Parasound A31 to do double duty for the front LCR in my home theater and for 2 channel listening when when I want. I went from an avr with 150 watts for two channels to 250 watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms. I'm driving Revel F206 speakers with a sensitivity of 88.5, and WOW! The Parasound lit them up. The stage increased in height, depth and width. The width takes my breath away. I, like most others, would love to have the McIntosh, but I love my wife. LOL.
Hottest Amp (I still own) ive ever had is the HK Citation 16. That thing … you can fry eggs on the heat sinks
I like my McIntosh MA8900.
Wanted to replace it, but it is really difficult to find other gear that will beat the Mac on all parameters. The musicality of the McIntosh is amazing.
Its extensive features aside, it's really not that hard to find an amp with its power and noise and distortion levels. For a fifth or a tenth of the price.
@@ropeburn6684
I listened to many.
Decided to keep that Mac sound. I just love it.
Moon, Aavik, Octave. They have some advantages on the Mac. But not have the weight and musicality of the Mac.
@@igaldins Of course most other amps don't have its weight. It's fucking 34 kg. lol
@@ropeburn6684
Didn’t work for me.
I think McIntosh is underpriced.
Not overpriced.
Sounds “to die for” , powerful, has good DAC and phono MM/MC, has tone control, power guard feature.
Good selling value.
Looks expensive.
Reliable.
@@ropeburn6684
Weight of sounds it produces.
Amp physical weight is not really an advantage.
Guys.. your take on the whole, over thinking and/or over buying issue is for real!!! 🎉 thank you for taking a moment to help some of us get our feet back on the ground when delving into the rabbit hole when it comes to this stuff!! My prob is, when it comes down to actually buying something, I’ve over researched and find myself NOT pulling the trigger on buying something. 🎉. Cheers
That McIntosh kit is really drool worthy! Short of a lottery win I'm never going to spend £12000 on a pre-amp and £11,000 on an amp. The MA 252 Hybrid amp has been on my wish list for a long time! 5K new and around 3K in the 2nd hand market its attainable to the average joe.
Listening to Andrew its sounds like there quite a mark-up on Mckintosh products here in the UK. For instance the MC312 is selling at around £10,500 ($13,800) whereas the same amp in the US is $7500. That's quite the markup!!!
I really love your thoughtful reply to your viewer who was dissatisfied with his system after watching reviews. Just brilliant and helpful. I have a Willsenton 300b tube amp with ifi zen signature dacs with Bose 901's w/supertweeters and a sub, then I got 4 B&O Level speakers using 2 wiim's. Wiim does the dsp for the bose reflective array, and the b&o does the live dsp for the 4 speakers that I can move around. I tried the Levels because of your review. Now I have a really niche system that works great in a small 100 year old house with plaster and heartwood. It sounds unreal and better than half million dollar systems that I have heard and installed for others, due to how it blends into the room and uses reflection and dsp to create sound that you can shape at will w/ portable satellites.
Mac does not sell the gear that does what this does and I love their sound... but I need a bigger room to get benefit from it. As it stands, I have portasbles I can bring into the kitchen and they will auto level now, the bass and rest of the umph will come from the 300b and the modified bose 901's in the livingroom.
This is convenient affordable Hifi.
Regarding the question about buying this Macintosh after watching the review, I agree that it shouldn’t buy the McIntosh expecting huge differences, unless that purchase is done on the same concept as buying an expensive watch (i.e. you want it and you can afford it for whatever emotional reason, and not performance alone).
As much as I do respect Andrew’s take on any product, and and as much unbiased as we all really may want to be, it’s very hard for us (as humans) not to appreciate all the visual cues and build quality, which severely impacts what we are really “listening”.
It’s not even a choice for us, as humans. 😉
The only way to be 100% sure that all the audibles differences are really there is to setup a blind test, which is very hard to accomplish on usual reviewing conditions.
The job of any amplifier is to increase the input signal by a huge factor, without introducing any sound of its own.
I’m sure that the little Wiim amp does sound different, specially as power needs increase, but on this high level of amplifiers, we shouldn’t expect huge differences if both designs being compared were done properly.
If two amps with similar specs sound very different at this price point, at least on of them have to be doing something wrong to the signal, even if it ends up sounding “better”.
The most effective way of drastically changing the sound of any audio system is to change the speakers.
No matter how expensive or inexpensive any pair of speakers are, and you’ll _always_ hear the differences.
While amplifiers (above a minimum standard of quality) have basically no frequency response deviations, and insignificant THD percentages, there’s no speaker on earth that can achieve nothing remotely similar, even those who cost most than many houses.
On top of their own response, they will all interact differently with every room and even listening position.
So, unless anyone is using a _really_ poorly designed dac/streamer or amplifier, changing those parts of the signal chain will be insanely less sonically obvious than replacing the loudspeakers, even inside the same brand and series.
It’s no wonder that this viewer changed amplifiers and didn’t notice an huge difference.
Would love McIntosh gear. My lotto winning dream gear. You guys still rock with the awesome reviews
Thanks so much!
The new Marantz MODEL 10 looks insane. Would love to see it go against a McIntosh.
23 years ago when I was just finishing high school I bought a set of Energy C5's. Not the best, but I'd argue, close to top value for the budget I had.
I wanted a set of Veritas, (loved the 1" dome tweeter combined with the 2" aluminium mid dome design) but no way as a school kid I could afford that.
Now all these years later a set of made in Canada Veritas 2.3i's came up for sale locally for a great price. Sold to me😊
Are they the best. No. But they're the best for me, got my child hood desire. Endgame, done.
Don't chase the dragon. Just enjoy the music.
Bang and Olufsen speakers and soundbars are great for people who want to try different sound signatures (neutral, warm etc and anything in between)without having to change equipment thanks to its app. It makes me wonder why other companies don’t do this rather than being trapped with a particular sound, it would save a lot of issues and reduce returns.
I think manufacturers and sellers make more money off the anti-EQ purity myth that Andrew sort of debunked in this video.
Imagine having a tv in professional (closest to calibrated mode) 😂😂😂 Even the cheapest Sony in standard would beat it casually.
$30K Parasound. Someone at Parasound needs to double check the mushrooms they're picking in the garden. Common sense is to select a newer high end name and to build a new high end personna. like Mishi did. They didnt do that. They even still used the same ho-hum boring face plate style like their cheap amps. How about a nice new facia and a couple meters. Give the customer SOMETHING.
$4K for a Hint 6? I have the original which was $2,500. Is the current Hint 6 really $1.5K better?
new owner is a 🤡
Almost all pre-amps do provide some small level of amplification, but obviously not anywhere near as much as a power amp. A tube pre-amp will sound different than a solid-state pre-amp for this reason (assuming that a neutral solid state amp is being used). There are a very few pre-amps that act in passive mode only and only do input switching, and a few that can be passive or active depending on your preference.
Best way would be not to watch reviews, read online forums, browse hifi shops, go to hifi events that can only live and prosper with proposing new stuff all the time. And we will learn to be satisfied with what we have. Would we?
Andrew you never cease to amaze me with your technical and in room experience, I find your vids both informative and enjoyable to watch . I only wish my wife enjoyed the beauty of music played as it should be, simply and beautifully .
I finally got to listen to the Marantz M1, that little box is witchcraft and I want one, how better does music Tv movie viewing get with this gem .
Thankyoun
I thought I was going to be an audiophile. I kept buying speakers and different electronics. One day I was talking with my wife and came to the realization that I loved Klipsch. I spent far to much time listening to "audiophiles" and their hate of Klipsch. I went and listened to serveral speakers and ended up buy the Cornwsll IVs and 3 years later I still have then and I am happy with them. I still have my maggies, JBLs, and B1+ bookshelves but got rid of the Wharfdales.
Long story short, be true to yourself and don't listen to the BS you hear on forums etc.
Never understood why anyone would make decisions based on you tube videos. I've watched the finest speakers play Wilson,PSB, you name it. The sound is coming out of my system!!! Of course 10k speakers are gonna look great. Plus, youtubes audio is not the best.
Last week was the 30th anniversary of the release of Natural Born Killers. I had such a great night in the home theater. Movies like that are why i built my system. Big thanks to Shout!Factory for releasing a great 4k of NBK. That film was a huge part of my teenage years, and beyond. I havent been the same since i saw it on vhs in Moms basement in 1995 in the “appropriate ” state of human consciousness. Boundaries dissolved. Mind blown. And it still works in 2024. Spoiler alert. The main story isnt really about Mickey and Mallory.
For my movie theater and music listening wants, performance-per dollar is an important factor for me when it comes to amplifiers. I prefer am amp to be neutral and not to alter the sound in any way, but without costing a fortune.
I come for the reviews, I stay for the banter.
For me, I having a collection I'm satisfied it ended my journey on headphone& iem searching, I owning a couple and swapping it with my mood of the day completely erases my desire to buy new gear.
On speaker tho, I stayed with my kef lsx with sub, due to space constraint really.
My two cents, I love all the gear, all the bling, and the technical jargon, it’s just fun and you really help it all make sense. I would buy the McIntosh but I don’t think I want the last amp I’ll ever need, lol.
If it's there for another couple months, sounds like you need to get a hold of an M66....try out that pairing. Bluos, dirac, the works. more cosmetically flashy too like the MAC.
I'd love to have an entire rack full of McIntosh gear...but I simply can't afford it. ...and I don't know that I'd actually buy the stuff even if I could afford to do so. Maybe pre-owned stuff...
Glad you mentioned the room on that (long question) person's query ... perhaps what they *could* do ... if they're intent on spending money ... is to treat the room?
... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you have nailed this again around 28:55 :)
I think most of us have been Greg. I know I have. I think it is a natural stage of evolving in this hobby. Your own ignorance to what is possible and what your own preferences are leads to wanting to experiment. With this hobby that can get real expensive, really fast. I think you gave Greg great advice.
Comparison is the thief of joy
@ 1250,,,- Now thats end game !👍
Perfection is also the enemy of the good or even the great
Most of us are/were/will be Greg. I completely identify with him and the solution was EXACTLY what Andrew described. Take a pause, sell stuff, go and listen at a shop, and eventually don't buy it and reconsider :).
How clear was that:) You beautifully nailed the risk of falling down the rabbit hole. Like most things in life there's compromise, but reaffirmation of knowing what you want and not chasing perfection leads to musical enjoyment. And, in the end ... isn't that the true emotional experience that music can bring to our lives. When guests cry out or even shed a tear listening to music, then what's not to like. Keep up your informed and humourous banter.
To the fellow with the Klipsch RF7-3s… my pair is glorious. Give em some time. Ive paired them with several amps and i love them more every time i hear em. Low wattage, high wattage, they sing. Just one mans opinion here. I couldnt really afford em when i got em. But i was glad i did. Are there better speakers? Yes. But In that price range, the RF7s are no slouch. Ive used a separates system and ive had no complaints.
I still have my original RF-7s, back when those were the new thing and still love them, hard to believe I had those things for over 20 years now, but still love these the day I brought them home. I felt no need to ever upgrade. Now, I am currently using Emotiva amps to drive them, but I used to have a B&K Reference 200.7 amp, which ended up dying, and could not find anyone that could repair it. Really sucks as I loved that amp and thought it sounded awesome with the Klipsch. Now, the Emotiva XPA-DR3 that I currently have does sound really good, but still do miss that B&K amp. On top of that, my Pioneer Elite N-50 DAC/Streamer died and again, could not get it repaired, so ended up replacing that with an Eversolo DMP-A6 Master Edition. Also to add, I am using a Marantz AV-8802A as my pre-amp/processor, which I've also now had a for a few years, and again, found no need to currently upgrade.
Hello Andrew n Kristi. I had to ask only because I saw their soundbar on the cover of this video. Did you ever hear back from Ray? I highly doubt it, but I figured I’d ask. Also, on Avs forums, whoever is the main person in charge has totally edited out many of the bad reviews and comments regarding how Nakamichi’s deception and blatant lies affected lots of people.
There has to be the good and the bad when reviewing a product, especially when it’s very expensive. I believe that’s why you went so thoroughly into your review because you saw a company getting away with utter bullsh”” and straight up claims that you proved were wrong with actual evidence. I know you want to end that part of your reviews and said you were done with them and I just wanted to again say thank you for saving a good amount of people from going down that path!
Thank you for a great review! The chemistry between you both brings an extra layer that is both informative and entertaining.
Maybe I missed it, but how does the combo compare with the MA7200 integrated you reviewed ?
Kristi is FEISTY today. And I am HERE for it.
Great answer on the EQ idea. As for Greg's comments, I get where he's coming from. When I bought my Mac gear (C2300 preamp, MC501 monoblocks), I knew I could stop there; my 501s are my forever amps. But having been alerted to the C55 and its tube brother the C2800, I begin to consider an upgrade. Not because I'm running after everything I see; it's a practical concern. The C55/2800 would give me more connectivity options, a phonostage that's as good or maybe better (?) as the 2300's, and a DAC should I go in a digital direction with my setup. I am in the midst of my "last" go-round with stereo equipment (hoping to retire in acouple of years), and at one point was overwhelmed with purchase options (speakers, turntable, phono preamp, cables, etc.). I have pulled out my "Vulcan" mindset to take a more practical approach. Starting with how much I'm comfortable spending, then what makes sense for my system AND life, all things considered. INCLUDING my current room.
Just want to say thank you for all you’re advice . Watching your videos we picked up a marantz m1 . B&w 705s3 . And svs 3000 micro and I’m honestly blown away with how good the combo is
I took you’re advice on dropping the treble 1 click to try mimic the 805d4 to
Any advice on how to get virtual mode on the m1 tho ? Using AirPlay I can’t get it to work . I only have stereo or duel mono
I think you have to differentiate between the Eversolo A8 which probably has very little gain and just controls the volume, and the McIntoch C55 which has more gain as well as controlling the volume. That could explain your preference for the C55 when trying to make fine adjustments.
Three years ago Andrew reviewed the Beosound Level and mentioned speaking to B&O about whether the Level could ever be used as part of a surround sound system. You where told possibly and by just a software upgrade.
In some 40 days (November 2024), announced at CEDIA Expo 2024, B&O will launch Beolink Surround which seems to use a Beosound Theatre with Emerge, Level, Balance etc as front, rear and satellite speakers. The special deal on these speakers ends 31st October :)
In March 2024 the Mozart platform introduced low latency via the 3.5 mm input to a single speaker this opened up the chance to use the speakers with any video source, TV or computer and be in synch. Beolink is already used in multi-room (all speakers in synch to the same music) will alternately offer multi-channel.
“It’s just better…” needs to go on a t-shirt!
You heard it here first! 😂
How good do the speakers need to be for the McIntosh to be worth it? Is pairing them with Monolith or Polk crazy? Looking at 11+ channels and speakers add up.
Point of diminishing returns. I like my two Yamaha RX-777 flagship receivers for $125 apiece.