Up to a couple years ago, he was still damn good live. Saw him with the Zappa alumni group "Project Object" in NYC a couple years back. Still great and still fun.
I believe the Florentine Pogen lives next door to the Siberian Khatru. But seriously, the arrangement on this is nothing short of astonishing. An all-time favorite.
One of the best Zappa tracks of all time! Check out the version on "A Token of His Extreme" which is the basis for this version (sans some overdubs) and features a long guitar solo.
And this is maybe the 5th or 6th (or 7th) best song on the album, Zappa's best in my opinion. Andy, San Ber'dino, Pojama People, Inca Roads...the whole thing is peak Zappa.
I have to say, JP, that, from a long-time FZ fan over the Pond who saw him five times live, I do believe that a tear was shed - just a tiny one - maybe it was smoke or something - when I listened to your post-song comments (it matters not which song it was), because it seemed that there was the strong possibilty that you had (finally, or so it seems) 'GOT IT' as far as Frank is concerned. And once you really have got it, you can't let go. Did you know there was a time, twenty years ago or thereabouts, when there were more FZ sites on the net than any other musician?!! Anyway, keep learning, because we never ever stop as long as we accept we don't know it all, and play Frank's Yo Mama at some point please - straight FZ guitar solo song, no frills - and always remember, for future reference that however good Tommy is, Quadrophenia is better (genius segue, eh?).
There is so much going on in this song, you don't even notice the lack of the trademark blistering guitar solo. A musical tour-de-force that delivers the goods (as Frank would say) and really highlights the talent in the band as well as Frank's compositional skill. Not for beginners (or people prone to trying to figure out what the artist was trying to relay through their lyrics) but for the more advanced listener, a true masterpiece.
Frank was the master of fucks not given. He did exactly whatever he wanted and he did it damn well. He combined time signatures, rhythms, genres, you name it. And even though it is a complex piece, amazingly the music flows. If you listen to enough Frank, the bad thing is that his music stretches and spoils you. You'll really have a tough time listening to all the lesser music out there. He's the most interesting, original, diverse composer you'll ever listen to. The master is in and you've just been taught. Priceless.
The basic tracks for this and Inca Roads are from the same recording as the video of Approximate (K-CET, from the video and album "The Dub-Room Special"), on the K-CET version it doesn't fade out and goes into a solo then ends with some amazing Ruth and Chester drum fills. "Later she speaks on how Perellis might court her" - Perellis is a reference to Marty Perellis, the bands tour manager, who, if I remember right, is also in the gorilla suit, attacking Chester during the "Chester's Gorilla" part of the song, leading to a great liner note of "Chester Thompson - Drums, Gorilla Victim"
I am truly surprised at your reaction, I thought you were going to say you didn't like it! I was made up when you said you loved it..... great reaction JP, the whole "One size fits all album" is awesome.... the song "Andy" with Johnny "Guitar" Watson on vocals is a real gem.... Frank was a master composer which shows here.
I’ve been waiting for you to get to this one, glad you gave it an instant high mark. This has always been one of my favorites on this album. You brought up how the musicians must have had fun performing it. With this track, you can actually see for yourself. If you get ahold of Zappa’s “Dub Room Special” video, the original performance of this that became the basic track of this album version, was taped live. Some extent of editing and overdubs were done, but it’s largely a live performance piece. The album’s opening track, “Inca Roads”, was done the same way and was also featured in that video. The other thing the two tracks have in common is that they both end with lines referencing a member of Zappa’s ensemble, Ruth Underwood on “Inca Roads”, and Chester Thompson on this one. Zappa did that a lot in his songs. A full live take wouldn’t be too big a deal for a basic pop or rock song, but for a piece as full of changes and flourishes that the whole band runs through together, it’s a remarkable job of performance unity. I don’t think there’s much deep meaning in the lyrics here, mostly another Zappa character piece. Whether it’s about someone Zappa knew or just someone he invented is another question, but I’ve never heard which it is. Still, “One Size Fits All” is a high watermark album, and I’m glad you’ve been doing it track by track.
According to band lore, "Chester's gorilla" is a not-so-nice reference to a particular member of the female sex who ended up joining Chester in his room one night after a concert. You know, travelling musicians, away from home etc...
You're actually right, Florentine Pogen was a sort of cookies that originated from Sweden, where they were called Toscapågar, made by a company called Pågens. For a short time in the 70's the cookies also was manufactured in the US under the namn Florentine Pogens. Zappa, who toured a lot, picked up some local specialities from many places around the world, not a least Sweden where he was more revered that in the US..
Great comment about how wonderful Chester's drumming is in this. Phil MUST have been really into this album and it is easy to see why he was so delighted that Mr. Thompson agreed to join Genesis. You can hear the snare drum flams and tom runs that Collins loved so well. They were clearly on the same page. Phil was into fusion jazz in 1975 (Brand X) and they had just finished 'The Lamb' album on which you can clearly hear Collin's fusion drumming. What a match made in drumming heaven. Can't believe I don't have this Zappa album (yet)!
@@rk41gator no it’s me being random and irregular. JP , to my knowledge, hasn’t heard Chester & Phil in 1977. We should earn the right to witness this event by subscribing 32,000 times to his channel. 30k target reward The Wall is incomplete without the final cut) and The last lp quoted is the 1973 lp by Budgie which includes many tracks that I’m sure people would enjoy. Nothing to do with Phil & Chester’s drumming though. Thanks for your patience.
Zappa would make references to things only the band would really know, making straight-faced serious references to really silly things. Whether anyone else would ever get it he didn't know or care, part of the charm of it.
THE COOKIES IN THE PICTURE were once available in America under the name "FLORENTINE POGENS". They were still available in Sweden as of March 1999, their Swedish name is "TOSCA-PÅGAR", and they are from a Scanian bakery called PÅGEN. If you've ever wondered what a "florentine pogen" is - you're looking at them. [This page is dedicated to Jon Naurin, who really got the ball rolling.] "Where did you find that picture?" "I scanned it from a Zappa fanzine". "Where did you find the fanzine?" "I found it in Sweden." "What was it called?" "It was a very old fanzine." "Who made it?" "It was made in Sweden." Since the year 1974, when Frank Zappa started playing the song "Florentine Pogen" in concert, people have been wondering what on God's grey earth a Florentine Pogen is. The song starts with the lines She was the daughter of a wealthy Florentine Pogen; "Read 'em & weep" was her adjustable slogan [1] and in a popular theory of least resistance (among people who know no Italian), a Pogen is an Italian nobleman. Not so. The Florentine Pogen cookies were first brought up by Björn Lisper, Sweden: "Pogens" is an anglified spelling of the Swedish bakery "Pågens" ... "Pågens" is southern Swedish dialect and means "the boy's" (cookies, say). In Sweden, Pågens makes all sorts of cookies, bread etc. It turns out that these Florentine Pogens being sold in California are a type of cookie that Pågens sells in Sweden, but under a different name. So Pågens seems to have some business in California as well. Don White in Texas confirmed it: It's a cookie. My mom went to the store one time (this was in 1979), and came back [with] bags of groceries. She had not known what she had done when she bought the package of Pogens, but I roared in amazement and delight at the sight. She thought I was nuts. The company that made Pogens made other kinds as well, 'though I couldn't tell you now what they were. Chocolate Pogens? Mallomar Pogens? Pecan Pogens? Jon Naurin, in Gothenburg, Sweden, did some research: Here's some more precise info: Florentine Pogens: 88c/6 oz. (box) The toffee wafer dipped in real chocolate has an aura of excitement. A rich, melt-in-your-mouth experience that may be too sophisticated for some tastes. Good for entertaining and great company while watching television. Sticky and chewy, a delight to the senses. Good frozen too. (Stop drooling, Ninja!) Florentine Pogens can't be bought in the US anymore, as the Pogens Family Bakery shut down their factory in Compton in 1992. [Extra, extra: read all about it!] In Sweden, we can still buy it under the name Toscapågar.
"One Size Fits All" is a superb album with many great tracks including Andy, San Ber'dino, Pojama People, Inca Roads (my favourite) & Florentine Pogen.
It's always a pleasure for me to see people discovering Zappa's music ! Above all when they are surprised and pleased too ! (and what would be your reaction in listening to "Evelyn, a modified dog" ?! 😉
You owe it to yourself to watch the live version of this. It is essentially the same with a Zappa solo at the end of the song. And you get to see the craziness.
Mind you, I do love this - the way he can go from the sublime to the ridiculous, with the silly bits taken as much care of as anything else (Punky's Whips is great for that).
Love me some Frank Zappa, and had a brief chat with him, sitting around the lobby of the then brand new Westin Hotel at Copley Square Boston. I asked him about some German lyrics from Joe's Garage II, which I would highly recommend, especially "Outside Now", where he is in music prison, but sticks it to the executives with his words and guitar. I consider him to be one of America's greatest composers ever. Thanks again.
Oh, an re Florentines... Either a posh biscuit, or someone born in Florence. And I can highly recommend eating the one, and visiting the other. Florence, a beautiful city, been a few times.
This track is one of my all time favourite Zappa tracks, it has got everything! Another is Zombie Woof, I really need to put a playlist of my favourite Zappa tracks, but there are just too many!
JP, yes I'm still here just not always commenting BUT as you know I've been trying to get you to play a particular song (you know what I'm talking bout lol). I wanted to just say something about your reaction. I SOOOOOOO happy you're developing Zappa listening skills ( It took me a while so this is not a dig or sarcasm) You've developed the way to listen and fully appreciate Mr. Z, just separate the lyrics from the music and his genius becomes apparent, if you listen to the lyrics it disracts from the brilliance of the music. There is no way to catorgize his music, it's a category unto itself and in a very good way. Of course in his vast catalog there are quite a few real clunkers and ones that just go over my head musically but regardless his absolute genius and uniqueness will only be more appreciated over time. Keep up the great work JP, I watch most of your vids even if I don't comment.
@@JustJP I know you will, I just hope you get to it before either the planet burns up or the apocalypse LMAO.. I laugh but those events unfortunately seem to be right around the corner. Makes me wonder what Mr. Z would think...hummmmm lol PS: Napolean Murphy Brock sings quite a few songs of Zappa from that period, he also is great to watch perform, constant smile, moves to the grooves so to speak and is just out enjoying himself as he sings the often wild, crazy and often dark humorous social commentary lyrics. Later in Zappas catalog he does write lyrics that have some meaning but in his own Zappa style. Example being a song called "I Am The Slime" which is about peoples minds being turned to mush with advertising , tv and his favorite target politicians. The double album "Joes Garage" is about a society that totally bans music and the ills that would come from it, all done in Zappa style with headshaking lyrics and songs like "Wet T-shirt Night " and "Why Does it Hurt When I Pee" which is a great tune on it's own musically but will make you laugh (and think how clever Mr. Z is) with the lyrics. Keep up the great work. PS: JOes Garage is a real trip, not all great stuff, disc 2 is actually the better stuff but it's all worth a listen.
One of his best tracks for sure...Napoleon Murphy Brock on lead vocals and sax, the great Chester Thompson on drums, Ruth Underwood, George Duke on keyboards. So glad you appreciated this. The one track I want you to react to is Cleetus Awreetus Awrightus from the album The Grand Wazoo. He adds a lot of brass to that and it's incredible IMO.
This whole album is Zappa in his zone. G. Duke said "Just when you settle into the arrangements it always takes a turn" just to confuse or annoy the listener when they get a sweet groove going but yes I love it. You've done "Inca Roads" so now do "Andy" from the same album. Cheers.
Well... the good news is...there is a live videotaping of this actual performance ( that's right... it's live) from a T.V show on K.C.E.T tv (that same show with Aproximate). You can actually watch them play the song that you just listened to. There are some overdubs on this version... but not many. What you just listened to... is about 75 percent untouched live. A florentine Pogen is a cookie from Sweden. But Zappa used it because it sounded mysterious. It has no actual meaning. He used the name of a cookie to represent a rich person that is the daughter of a rich "Pogen" from Firenze, Italy... which if you are from Firenze (or in english FLORENCE) you are a Fiorentino....(or in English FLORENTINE. So...I hope that helped, but don't be worried about being confused, I doubt that even the guys in the band understood what the hell they were singing and playing.
Ratta-too, ratta teep, the entendre's cut double deep! And Chester is no monkey. For life I'm a Zappa junkie. Gotta go lose my breakfast, I'm feeling rather punkie. Peace Po-jama people!
Can I suggest that you look at one of Zappa's big band jazz albums next? Waka - Jawaka and Grand Wazoo are, again, totally different aspects of F.Zs world.
Great song. I wish you had done the live Roxy version though, great solo at the end and you get to watch them play this with perfection. NMB is an amazing front man and the band is tight tight tight!!!
I just want to pass my sympathies to commenters from the British Isles. That heat wave is nasty and I realize your architecture isn't designed to handle it. Keep cool as best you can.
Thanks, Maruad. Yes, in a top floor apartment here in London without air-con, it was pretty grim yesterday (at least I didn't have to work outside in it, unlike my nephew who's a construction worker). The London max of 104 (40C) smashed the record by four degrees (2 deg C). Then, in the evening there was the smell of smoke in the air as the wild fires started in and around the city. Thankfully, it's over for now - 81 (27C) today.
You start off loving Zappa for his mixture of zaniness, humour, and great riffs, and then you start discovering all the depth you didn't realise was there. Like where he'll establish a melody and then play around with the note values (what is sometimes referred to as 'isomelism'). There's a LOT of that going on in Florentine Pogen.
"Pågen", anglicized as "Pogen", is a Swedish brand of bakery products that also produces cookies, so you were not far off the mark. "Pågens" is also South Swedish slang for "boys". There are some sexual allusions in this song, like with the pestle and the mortar, but that's of course not uncommon for Frank Zappa. We hope you liked our e-mail and will have a look at some of the videos we gave you the links to; we are certain the ones with Barbara Dennerlein will make you appreciate her even more. And maybe you will follow some of our suggestions; we can't praise that Mother Gong album highly enough. We have no idea why our comments are sometimes taken down by RUclips; we wrote a similar comment a bit earlier that was removed and hope this one won't have the same fate.
Swedish person here. "Pågens" does not mean "boys". It means "the boy's". So the name "Pågens" actually means "The boy's (bread)". In plural, "Pågens" becomes "Pågarnas".
Sadly, Frank chose to edit out the solo he played at the end of this song in live shows. You ought to check out the video of this from the 'Dub Room Special' concert tapes, as this is from those shows, but the solo to end it remains... its out there JP, take a look!
The 'twiddly' keyboard bits do remind me of Cardiacs. I'm sure Tim Smith was a fan. By the way, Justin, are you ever going to do the next track from Sing To God? The second half of Fiery Gun hand is mind boggling.
Generally I really like Frank, he definitely has a sound and style all of his own. And this deffo had all the bells and whistles Frank often likes to trot out. Occasionally though Frank can be just a little 'Too Frank'. I liked the first min or so, but it became quite monotonous after that. Almost like he was trying too hard on this one. There was a dullness to it, and I didn't think it flowed particularly well either.
I can enjoy listening to Frank for about ten minutes a year, which sadly is almost never enough to finish one of his rambling and absurdist dissertations.
@@pentagrammaton6793 most of it is meticulously composed...there's moments where it goes into the jazz realm and opens up for improvisation but most of it is either composed or in song-form.
Pure genius!!! My favourite Zappa album ... this is a masterful track, and it's not even my favourite on the album. That will have to wait until 'Andy' comes along and DESTROYS everything.
This album was brand new when I started listening to FZ. And I still don't 100% get this song. That's okay though. This is one of those many, many songs he's written that take direct shots at his band members, and the music biz in general. "Chester's Gorilla" appears to be referent to a groupie of Chester Thompson's. So, funny enough, there may be factual elements to the song. Did this groupie have a color-note organ? Possibly. Did she drive a '59 Morgan? Possibly. "Later she speaks on how Perellis might court her" is the giveaway. Marty Perellis was Zappa's road manager in the '70's. Sounds like a groupie to me. This song is an inside joke of Zappa's that even after almost fifty years the lore of it isn't filled out for me yet. And I still love it to bits. Blessings.
Hey JP, lovin´ your confusion with the lyrics ;-) My guess is that "Florentine Pogen" is playing with the italian sytstem of "duke´ism". The "governors" of Venice were called "Doges" and Florence is a renaissance origin city in Italy which was very influencial at that time because of the Medicis, a super rich and influential family. But I think Zappa is playing with words in a DaDa en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada way, meaning it´s meaningless and just serves the music more than an actual content... typical Zappa 😇
With Zappa, you have to more or less let the lyrics flow. But that's OK. The quick changes, quirky sections are just the right length, and the mastery of instruments just shine o through. Thanks for not being afraid the listen to what I consider the best Zappa album. INCA ROADS made no musical sense to me at first listen, but... WOW.
I like the more serious FZ, this silly stuff is a bit irritating. Like a kid on the bus to school that won’t shut up or slow down and make sense. Silliness overload… some people can’t handle the overload, me.
Really great drums; some cool instrumental breaks; but the vocals and lyrics put me off. I generally find the 'zappa-ism' kind of pointless and unpleasant. If they'd just shut up play it could be quite entertaining.
One Size Fits All. An album close to perfection
Perhaps the pinnacle of analog fidelity.
@@chrisogburn8240 and it sounds good too😁
@@markofrontz1343 LOL
you can't get any closer.
Only close?
I do so love Napoleon Murphy Brock on vocals, he was great live too.
Sometime around 1985, he started aging backwards.
Up to a couple years ago, he was still damn good live. Saw him with the Zappa alumni group "Project Object" in NYC a couple years back. Still great and still fun.
@@EdwardGregoryNYC And a really nice guy.
I believe the Florentine Pogen lives next door to the Siberian Khatru. But seriously, the arrangement on this is nothing short of astonishing. An all-time favorite.
I see what you did there….
One of the best Zappa tracks of all time! Check out the version on "A Token of His Extreme" which is the basis for this version (sans some overdubs) and features a long guitar solo.
Such a gorgeous song!
Think you'd really enjoy his Village of the Sun out of your explanation of your love for this one.
I thought you'd done this one before. My favourite album by my favourite artist. Zappa is my GOD.
And this is maybe the 5th or 6th (or 7th) best song on the album, Zappa's best in my opinion. Andy, San Ber'dino, Pojama People, Inca Roads...the whole thing is peak Zappa.
My favorite too…
I have to say, JP, that, from a long-time FZ fan over the Pond who saw him five times live, I do believe that a tear was shed - just a tiny one - maybe it was smoke or something - when I listened to your post-song comments (it matters not which song it was), because it seemed that there was the strong possibilty that you had (finally, or so it seems) 'GOT IT' as far as Frank is concerned. And once you really have got it, you can't let go. Did you know there was a time, twenty years ago or thereabouts, when there were more FZ sites on the net than any other musician?!! Anyway, keep learning, because we never ever stop as long as we accept we don't know it all, and play Frank's Yo Mama at some point please - straight FZ guitar solo song, no frills - and always remember, for future reference that however good Tommy is, Quadrophenia is better (genius segue, eh?).
A "Florentine Pogen" is a cake. Pagens, a Swedish bakery, had a branch in California named Pogen.
Seriously? Pågen is one of the major Swedish bakeries delivering nation wide. Never would have believed Florentine Pogen had to do with that...
There is so much going on in this song, you don't even notice the lack of the trademark blistering guitar solo. A musical tour-de-force that delivers the goods (as Frank would say) and really highlights the talent in the band as well as Frank's compositional skill. Not for beginners (or people prone to trying to figure out what the artist was trying to relay through their lyrics) but for the more advanced listener, a true masterpiece.
Frank was the master of fucks not given. He did exactly whatever he wanted and he did it damn well. He combined time signatures, rhythms, genres, you name it. And even though it is a complex piece, amazingly the music flows. If you listen to enough Frank, the bad thing is that his music stretches and spoils you. You'll really have a tough time listening to all the lesser music out there. He's the most interesting, original, diverse composer you'll ever listen to. The master is in and you've just been taught. Priceless.
The basic tracks for this and Inca Roads are from the same recording as the video of Approximate (K-CET, from the video and album "The Dub-Room Special"), on the K-CET version it doesn't fade out and goes into a solo then ends with some amazing Ruth and Chester drum fills.
"Later she speaks on how Perellis might court her" - Perellis is a reference to Marty Perellis, the bands tour manager, who, if I remember right, is also in the gorilla suit, attacking Chester during the "Chester's Gorilla" part of the song, leading to a great liner note of "Chester Thompson - Drums, Gorilla Victim"
The K-CET version also has an absolutely incredible solo section
I am truly surprised at your reaction, I thought you were going to say you didn't like it! I was made up when you said you loved it..... great reaction JP, the whole "One size fits all album" is awesome.... the song "Andy" with Johnny "Guitar" Watson on vocals is a real gem.... Frank was a master composer which shows here.
I like it when you say "... backed by talent, and training."
Nobody gets to the olympics with talent alone. Cheers!
I’ve been waiting for you to get to this one, glad you gave it an instant high mark. This has always been one of my favorites on this album. You brought up how the musicians must have had fun performing it. With this track, you can actually see for yourself. If you get ahold of Zappa’s “Dub Room Special” video, the original performance of this that became the basic track of this album version, was taped live. Some extent of editing and overdubs were done, but it’s largely a live performance piece. The album’s opening track, “Inca Roads”, was done the same way and was also featured in that video. The other thing the two tracks have in common is that they both end with lines referencing a member of Zappa’s ensemble, Ruth Underwood on “Inca Roads”, and Chester Thompson on this one. Zappa did that a lot in his songs.
A full live take wouldn’t be too big a deal for a basic pop or rock song, but for a piece as full of changes and flourishes that the whole band runs through together, it’s a remarkable job of performance unity. I don’t think there’s much deep meaning in the lyrics here, mostly another Zappa character piece. Whether it’s about someone Zappa knew or just someone he invented is another question, but I’ve never heard which it is. Still, “One Size Fits All” is a high watermark album, and I’m glad you’ve been doing it track by track.
According to band lore, "Chester's gorilla" is a not-so-nice reference to a particular member of the female sex who ended up joining Chester in his room one night after a concert. You know, travelling musicians, away from home etc...
You're actually right, Florentine Pogen was a sort of cookies that originated from Sweden, where they were called Toscapågar, made by a company called Pågens. For a short time in the 70's the cookies also was manufactured in the US under the namn Florentine Pogens.
Zappa, who toured a lot, picked up some local specialities from many places around the world, not a least Sweden where he was more revered that in the US..
Great comment about how wonderful Chester's drumming is in this.
Phil MUST have been really into this album and it is easy to see why he was so delighted that Mr. Thompson agreed to join Genesis. You can hear the snare drum flams and tom runs that Collins loved so well. They were clearly on the same page. Phil was into fusion jazz in 1975 (Brand X) and they had just finished 'The Lamb' album on which you can clearly hear Collin's fusion drumming. What a match made in drumming heaven. Can't believe I don't have this Zappa album (yet)!
Wot gorillas? Seconds Out 32k subs?
The Final Cut 33k
Never Turn your Back on a Friend 35k
@@HippoYnYGlaw I am dense. What are you saying?
@@rk41gator no it’s me being random and irregular. JP , to my knowledge, hasn’t heard Chester & Phil in 1977. We should earn the right to witness this event by subscribing 32,000 times to his channel.
30k target reward The Wall is incomplete without the final cut) and The last lp quoted is the 1973 lp by Budgie which includes many tracks that I’m sure people would enjoy. Nothing to do with Phil & Chester’s drumming though.
Thanks for your patience.
@@HippoYnYGlaw Thanks for explaining. I often find the voice in my head makes perfect sense, except the world does not have the backup info needed!
Astute review. As crazy as it is, it’s catchy, has parts you want to hear again, grooves, rocks, experiments.
Zappa would make references to things only the band would really know, making straight-faced serious references to really silly things. Whether anyone else would ever get it he didn't know or care, part of the charm of it.
Listened to this all the time when it came out..the first track inca roads...wow!
The entire "Roxy" period is filled with absolute brilliance, this was his best band and he took advantage of these amazing musicians.
Zappa's One Size Fits All album was recorded in-studio, so it is tight. If I go on a long trip, this album is on my travelling playlist.
George Duke said he thought this was Franks greatest band. The album still stands the test of time.
"Florentine Pogen" has always been my favorite Frank Zappa song, so incredibly vibrant and creative from the very first second
Yaay you liked it!! Easily a top 3 Zappa song for me! So heavy but groovy. It sounds like nothing else and that's why i love it so much!
Love this song, it's so weird lol. That bit at 4:52 is my favorite
Musically astounding and full of fun. What more do yiz want, kids?
Now wasn't that so much fun?
What a great groove!
Such a fabulous album.
Very very fun!
Great tune from a great album. The next track (Evelyn) is very short and should be listened to as an intro to San Ber'dino.
THE COOKIES IN THE PICTURE were once available in America under the name "FLORENTINE POGENS". They were still available in Sweden as of March 1999, their Swedish name is "TOSCA-PÅGAR", and they are from a Scanian bakery called PÅGEN. If you've ever wondered what a "florentine pogen" is - you're looking at them.
[This page is dedicated to Jon Naurin, who really got the ball rolling.]
"Where did you find that picture?" "I scanned it from a Zappa fanzine". "Where did you find the fanzine?" "I found it in Sweden." "What was it called?" "It was a very old fanzine." "Who made it?" "It was made in Sweden."
Since the year 1974, when Frank Zappa started playing the song "Florentine Pogen" in concert, people have been wondering what on God's grey earth a Florentine Pogen is. The song starts with the lines
She was the daughter of a wealthy Florentine Pogen;
"Read 'em & weep" was her adjustable slogan [1]
and in a popular theory of least resistance (among people who know no Italian), a Pogen is an Italian nobleman. Not so. The Florentine Pogen cookies were first brought up by Björn Lisper, Sweden:
"Pogens" is an anglified spelling of the Swedish bakery "Pågens" ... "Pågens" is southern Swedish dialect and means "the boy's" (cookies, say). In Sweden, Pågens makes all sorts of cookies, bread etc. It turns out that these Florentine Pogens being sold in California are a type of cookie that Pågens sells in Sweden, but under a different name. So Pågens seems to have some business in California as well.
Don White in Texas confirmed it:
It's a cookie. My mom went to the store one time (this was in 1979), and came back [with] bags of groceries. She had not known what she had done when she bought the package of Pogens, but I roared in amazement and delight at the sight. She thought I was nuts. The company that made Pogens made other kinds as well, 'though I couldn't tell you now what they were. Chocolate Pogens? Mallomar Pogens? Pecan Pogens?
Jon Naurin, in Gothenburg, Sweden, did some research:
Here's some more precise info:
Florentine Pogens: 88c/6 oz. (box)
The toffee wafer dipped in real chocolate has an aura of excitement. A rich, melt-in-your-mouth experience that may be too sophisticated for some tastes. Good for entertaining and great company while watching television. Sticky and chewy, a delight to the senses. Good frozen too.
(Stop drooling, Ninja!) Florentine Pogens can't be bought in the US anymore, as the Pogens Family Bakery shut down their factory in Compton in 1992. [Extra, extra: read all about it!] In Sweden, we can still buy it under the name Toscapågar.
I suggest you to check the extended live version of this song,with an amazing Frank solo 😉
Ha, love this song, and it's a great album, one of Frank's best.
Great great track. Zappa was ahead of everyone..
"One Size Fits All" is a superb album with many great tracks including Andy, San Ber'dino, Pojama People, Inca Roads (my favourite) & Florentine Pogen.
It's always a pleasure for me to see people discovering Zappa's music ! Above all when they are surprised and pleased too ! (and what would be your reaction in listening to "Evelyn, a modified dog" ?! 😉
I have a feeling that Bonzo Dog Doo Dah was an influence for Zappa- there are parallels, especially goofy songs like this.
one of the greatest songs ever written
You owe it to yourself to watch the live version of this. It is essentially the same with a Zappa solo at the end of the song. And you get to see the craziness.
This and Andy and especially Inca Roads seem to me to be exercises in arrangement, made at a time when he had musicians who could do it.
Mind you, I do love this - the way he can go from the sublime to the ridiculous, with the silly bits taken as much care of as anything else (Punky's Whips is great for that).
Love me some Frank Zappa, and had a brief chat with him, sitting around the lobby of the then brand new Westin Hotel at Copley Square Boston. I asked him about some German lyrics from Joe's Garage II, which I would highly recommend, especially "Outside Now", where he is in music prison, but sticks it to the executives with his words and guitar. I consider him to be one of America's greatest composers ever. Thanks again.
Oh, an re Florentines... Either a posh biscuit, or someone born in Florence. And I can highly recommend eating the one, and visiting the other. Florence, a beautiful city, been a few times.
This track is one of my all time favourite Zappa tracks, it has got everything! Another is Zombie Woof, I really need to put a playlist of my favourite Zappa tracks, but there are just too many!
I have had this in my head recently, glad you got to it! Saw ZPZ do the entire One Size record. Killer stuff.
God I miss Frank. Music is the best
Glad you enjoyed. I dare you to listen to You Are What You in its entirety.
It doesn’t have to mean anything…
That’s the beauty of Zappa 🤓
JP, yes I'm still here just not always commenting BUT as you know I've been trying to get you to play a particular song (you know what I'm talking bout lol). I wanted to just say something about your reaction. I SOOOOOOO happy you're developing Zappa listening skills ( It took me a while so this is not a dig or sarcasm) You've developed the way to listen and fully appreciate Mr. Z, just separate the lyrics from the music and his genius becomes apparent, if you listen to the lyrics it disracts from the brilliance of the music. There is no way to catorgize his music, it's a category unto itself and in a very good way. Of course in his vast catalog there are quite a few real clunkers and ones that just go over my head musically but regardless his absolute genius and uniqueness will only be more appreciated over time. Keep up the great work JP, I watch most of your vids even if I don't comment.
Thanks Ron :) I haven't forgotten your request by the way; I wanna finish this album first before I move on though
@@JustJP I know you will, I just hope you get to it before either the planet burns up or the apocalypse LMAO.. I laugh but those events unfortunately seem to be right around the corner. Makes me wonder what Mr. Z would think...hummmmm lol PS: Napolean Murphy Brock sings quite a few songs of Zappa from that period, he also is great to watch perform, constant smile, moves to the grooves so to speak and is just out enjoying himself as he sings the often wild, crazy and often dark humorous social commentary lyrics. Later in Zappas catalog he does write lyrics that have some meaning but in his own Zappa style. Example being a song called "I Am The Slime" which is about peoples minds being turned to mush with advertising , tv and his favorite target politicians. The double album "Joes Garage" is about a society that totally bans music and the ills that would come from it, all done in Zappa style with headshaking lyrics and songs like "Wet T-shirt Night " and "Why Does it Hurt When I Pee" which is a great tune on it's own musically but will make you laugh (and think how clever Mr. Z is) with the lyrics. Keep up the great work. PS: JOes Garage is a real trip, not all great stuff, disc 2 is actually the better stuff but it's all worth a listen.
One of his best tracks for sure...Napoleon Murphy Brock on lead vocals and sax, the great Chester Thompson on drums, Ruth Underwood, George Duke on keyboards. So glad you appreciated this. The one track I want you to react to is Cleetus Awreetus Awrightus from the album The Grand Wazoo. He adds a lot of brass to that and it's incredible IMO.
Just add "One Size Fits All" to your JP just prog list, because that is what it is. Look for the live version of this on youtube, btw.
Take Inca Roads from the same album. Bet you'll like it even more. 👍🇩🇪
The "Chesters Gorilla" part has to do with them busting on him at a live show about an ugly groupie he had one night recently
This whole album is Zappa in his zone. G. Duke said "Just when you settle into the arrangements it always takes a turn" just to confuse or annoy the listener when they get a sweet groove going but yes I love it. You've done "Inca Roads" so now do "Andy" from the same album. Cheers.
I have heard this many times, have the album.
Well... the good news is...there is a live videotaping of this actual performance ( that's right... it's live) from a T.V show on K.C.E.T tv (that same show with Aproximate). You can actually watch them play the song that you just listened to. There are some overdubs on this version... but not many. What you just listened to... is about 75 percent untouched live. A florentine Pogen is a cookie from Sweden. But Zappa used it because it sounded mysterious. It has no actual meaning. He used the name of a cookie to represent a rich person that is the daughter of a rich "Pogen" from Firenze, Italy... which if you are from Firenze (or in english FLORENCE) you are a Fiorentino....(or in English FLORENTINE. So...I hope that helped, but don't be worried about being confused, I doubt that even the guys in the band understood what the hell they were singing and playing.
You nailed it!
You were close. A Florentine Pogen is a kind of cake baked by a Swedish bakery that had A branch in California, somewhere around L.A.
Ratta-too, ratta teep, the entendre's cut double deep! And Chester is no monkey. For life I'm a Zappa junkie. Gotta go lose my breakfast, I'm feeling rather punkie. Peace Po-jama people!
My favorite album together with Apostrophe
Great stuff by a genius and nut. Have you tried a first reaction to Muffin Man? lol. Give that cupcake a whirl.
Can I suggest that you look at one of Zappa's big band jazz albums next? Waka - Jawaka and Grand Wazoo are, again, totally different aspects of F.Zs world.
Morgan is a British Auto company
Packard Goose, Cheapness, bamboozled by Love. Marinate.
It takes a while to get Zappa. I do prefer the live versions when they become a living thing.
Great song. I wish you had done the live Roxy version though, great solo at the end and you get to watch them play this with perfection. NMB is an amazing front man and the band is tight tight tight!!!
I love this song and this LP. The next song is a great, short piece of whimsy from Frank.
I just want to pass my sympathies to commenters from the British Isles. That heat wave is nasty and I realize your architecture isn't designed to handle it. Keep cool as best you can.
Thanks, Maruad. Yes, in a top floor apartment here in London without air-con, it was pretty grim yesterday (at least I didn't have to work outside in it, unlike my nephew who's a construction worker). The London max of 104 (40C) smashed the record by four degrees (2 deg C). Then, in the evening there was the smell of smoke in the air as the wild fires started in and around the city. Thankfully, it's over for now - 81 (27C) today.
You start off loving Zappa for his mixture of zaniness, humour, and great riffs, and then you start discovering all the depth you didn't realise was there. Like where he'll establish a melody and then play around with the note values (what is sometimes referred to as 'isomelism'). There's a LOT of that going on in Florentine Pogen.
Its very deep, thats for sure!
The 'Pogen' is a rich dude from Florence, Italy
Here is the song live on stage with an intense Frank's solo at the end !
"Pågen", anglicized as "Pogen", is a Swedish brand of bakery products that also produces cookies, so you were not far off the mark. "Pågens" is also South Swedish slang for "boys". There are some sexual allusions in this song, like with the pestle and the mortar, but that's of course not uncommon for Frank Zappa.
We hope you liked our e-mail and will have a look at some of the videos we gave you the links to; we are certain the ones with Barbara Dennerlein will make you appreciate her even more. And maybe you will follow some of our suggestions; we can't praise that Mother Gong album highly enough.
We have no idea why our comments are sometimes taken down by RUclips; we wrote a similar comment a bit earlier that was removed and hope this one won't have the same fate.
Swedish person here. "Pågens" does not mean "boys". It means "the boy's". So the name "Pågens" actually means "The boy's (bread)".
In plural, "Pågens" becomes "Pågarnas".
@@SpaceCattttt Ah, thanks for the correction! Always happy to learn new things.
Sadly, Frank chose to edit out the solo he played at the end of this song in live shows. You ought to check out the video of this from the 'Dub Room Special' concert tapes, as this is from those shows, but the solo to end it remains... its out there JP, take a look!
Florentine Pogen is a bizarre masterpiece.
I'd say!
Pure madness OR Pure brilliance. OR both? Love me sum FZ. Try Zoot Allures.
Zappa takes all the muffins!!
The 'twiddly' keyboard bits do remind me of Cardiacs. I'm sure Tim Smith was a fan. By the way, Justin, are you ever going to do the next track from Sing To God? The second half of Fiery Gun hand is mind boggling.
Generally I really like Frank, he definitely has a sound and style all of his own. And this deffo had all the bells and whistles Frank often likes to trot out. Occasionally though Frank can be just a little 'Too Frank'. I liked the first min or so, but it became quite monotonous after that. Almost like he was trying too hard on this one. There was a dullness to it, and I didn't think it flowed particularly well either.
I can enjoy listening to Frank for about ten minutes a year, which sadly is almost never enough to finish one of his rambling and absurdist dissertations.
I wouldn’t describe the majority of Frank’s music as “rambling”
@@michaelhudson2912 but, it is.
@@michaelhudson2912 No, I wouldn't either, or I don't think I would/did (?)
@@pentagrammaton6793 most of it is meticulously composed...there's moments where it goes into the jazz realm and opens up for improvisation but most of it is either composed or in song-form.
Pure genius!!! My favourite Zappa album ... this is a masterful track, and it's not even my favourite on the album. That will have to wait until 'Andy' comes along and DESTROYS everything.
This album was brand new when I started listening to FZ. And I still don't 100% get this song. That's okay though. This is one of those many, many songs he's written that take direct shots at his band members, and the music biz in general.
"Chester's Gorilla" appears to be referent to a groupie of Chester Thompson's. So, funny enough, there may be factual elements to the song. Did this groupie have a color-note organ? Possibly. Did she drive a '59 Morgan? Possibly.
"Later she speaks on how Perellis might court her" is the giveaway. Marty Perellis was Zappa's road manager in the '70's. Sounds like a groupie to me.
This song is an inside joke of Zappa's that even after almost fifty years the lore of it isn't filled out for me yet. And I still love it to bits.
Blessings.
The live shows were the best, I seen 3
Hey JP, lovin´ your confusion with the lyrics ;-)
My guess is that "Florentine Pogen" is playing with the italian sytstem of "duke´ism". The "governors" of Venice were called "Doges" and Florence is a renaissance origin city in Italy which was very influencial at that time because of the Medicis, a super rich and influential family.
But I think Zappa is playing with words in a DaDa en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada way, meaning it´s meaningless and just serves the music more than an actual content... typical Zappa 😇
did anyone explain chesters gorilla to JP?
Watermelon in Easter Hay. Hey! Not like this song but really good just the same.
With Zappa, you have to more or less let the lyrics flow. But that's OK. The quick changes, quirky sections are just the right length, and the mastery of instruments just shine o through. Thanks for not being afraid the listen to what I consider the best Zappa album. INCA ROADS made no musical sense to me at first listen, but... WOW.
Interesting...it sounds a lot like Kansas until the vocals begin; then it jumps the shark, unfortunately.
Florentine Pogen in this song seems to a wealthy aristocrat. Just more word play by Zappa!
I like the more serious FZ, this silly stuff is a bit irritating. Like a kid on the bus to school that won’t shut up or slow down and make sense. Silliness overload… some people can’t handle the overload, me.
Agreed.
Me too, David.
thats too bad this wasnt the live version that includes a guitar solo...
I always avoided Zappa. Hearing this, I wonder why
Really great drums; some cool instrumental breaks; but the vocals and lyrics put me off. I generally find the 'zappa-ism' kind of pointless and unpleasant. If they'd just shut up play it could be quite entertaining.