i totally agree that it doesn't make any sense for Prime to be cannon. When I saw how immature and dim witted Prime Sonic was compared to normal game Sonic, I though this was some spin off thing. It doesn't make sense for Sonic to suddenly be so immature and childish when this isn't what his personality is like in the games. This does not at all feel like the same Sonic who went through the events of SA2, or Secret Rings, or Black Knight. That Sonic had actual maturity.
Glad you understand, I don’t like Sonic being reduced to generic cartoon silly protagonist. His character has been building to have a lot more depth than that. With Sega now trying to merge the canons there’s no excuse to just ignore somebody’s character like that. I understand slight changes, but this is a major change to who Sonic is.
They do this all under the excuse that prime is a kids show. Well, I say they insult kids. I don't think they'd like sonic being lobotimized. It may hinder a 2nd season from happening once the hype dies down.
@Snaaaaap i could see this as a younger Sonic, but not the Sonic thats gone through the events of the games. Sonic Heroes in particular showed Sonic as a natural leader who inspires his team mates and is willing to let others take charge of a situation if that's the best course of action. SA2 showed Sonic being willing to let Tails take point with the plan and follow his lead when necessary.
Spoilers if you have not finished season 2 yet For some reason in S2 E6, Sonic says "Is that a knockoff of me?" In reaction to Chaos Sonic, as if this is the first time he's seen a robot version of himself...
Lmao, yup, I immediately thought the same thing. One of the most obvious things Sonic wouldn’t be surprised about. I don’t understand how they can say “Sega is heavily involved” while also making it clear Sega aren’t even paying attention to the show
I honestly believe they only said it's canon to make the fans watch the show. After all, not many people watched Sonic Boom, and Sega probably assumed it was because it takes place in an alternate reality from the games (as if being based on the bad game of the same name wasn't the reason). Saying that something is canon is a trap that many fans have already fallen into: "Oh, the writing has problems, and there are many inconsistencies. But hey!! The creators said it's canon so it doesn't matter!".
Whether or not the initial plan was just to make it as a spiritual tie in, the implication from the writers being that it is in fact canon, added on with the intervention of Sega's writing team, as well as assistance from Ian Flynn makes Sonic Prime one of the most crucial TV shows that Sonic has ever had. We don't really know how the show will end, or where it even fits into the canon quite yet. I wouldn't be surprised if after the show is over it's never referenced again. This is also a One Season show, unless every season is just going to be Sonic still trying to fix the Paradox Prism, the next show would have to be something entirely different. When it comes to just basic fans of the Sonic Franchise, saying something is canon would work for them, the details and issues it brings are pretty much why we're in the situation we are now, everybody just mindlessly accepting whatever is brought to them and not judging it accordingly. Thankfully the outcry finally reached Sega's radar and we're getting what they think is a unified canon, even though they're causing problems every step of the way since Sega seems to be starting at the beginning of Sonic for their lore, rather than the entire series.
Sonic Boom is actually Canon. Cause in Frontiers, Amy says, that she asks herswlf if STICKS and Cream have Time to do smth with her. So Sticks is Canon to the Games and that means that Sonic boom is too.
@@kotytang oh, so shes a canon Character in the Franchise, but the events, that happen in Sonic Boom aren't Canon? Now I get it. I was confused why everyone was saying that sonic boom isn't canon, when Sticks was mentioned.
@@kotytang I don't like him in Frontiers either, he feels like a totally different character. But that's another subject for that game specifically. What I'm saying is that it's really jarring to see the Sonic in Prime RIGHT AFTER we've experienced the one in Frontiers. They are two completely different people, and yet the writers are trying to imply that they are the same. It feels like whiplash.
@@100lovenana I gotchu, there are too many interpretations of Sonic and none of them correct. I’m very curious what’s next for Sonic after the show and Frontiers though.
Just in the category of bad writers, just because one bad writer is better than another bad writer doesn't make it good writing, they're still both bad writers. I don't agree with me saying that X is poorly written today, only because I don't really remember that show much. I just remember not liking it. Maybe I'l cover it someday, and I can express the incredible show that I've forgotten all about.
WAIT A MINUTE I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING! So the paradox prysm was inside the big mountain on south island right? And eggman acts as if he's been planing on getting it for a while right? And scrapbrain was in that same mountain right? So eggman seriously had the power to rewrite reality under his basement and conveniently never tried getting it? WHO WROTE THIS?
@@LannyLeArtist i don't even care anymore, this show is fundementaly broken, they might as well tell us that sonic and knuckles met in hidden palace... OH WAIT THEY DID, FUCK THIS SHOW!
17:07 - 18:55 (I think) I completely understand but... This Sonic Animated Retelling: Are we a joke to you? Video: ruclips.net/video/wOXzHX5iFZs/видео.html
Hey, At least it’s a fan project, so I wouldn’t really judge it as harshly lol. But even so, if you include one thing that’s exclusive to gameplay you do have to pretty much include it all.
Finally got around to watching this. Definitely cathartic hearing you break things down like this, though some food for thought... Rings don't function the way they do in gameplay, but they definitely exist within the canon of Sonic, seemingly as both a power source and a currency. Eggman is ironically a good example of this, having built a theme park using Rings he's collected from around the world in _Shadow the Hedgehog,_ and using Rings to power his robots in _Sonic Advance 3,_ though there's a number of other examples. There's also the plot-specific instances of Rings or variations of Rings, like the engraved Ring that Sonic finds at the beginning of _Sonic 3 & Knuckles_ or the entirety of _Knuckles Chaotix._ There _are_ mentions of Sonic characters using Rings directly, such as a passing mention in _Knuckles Chaotix,_ and they were mentioned as restoring stamina in _Sonic Rivals 2..._ buuut considering the fact that _Knuckles Chaotix_ is barely acknowledged and the _Rivals_ games aren't exactly known for their lore-consistent writing _(cough_ Eggman Nega _cough)_, it's safe to assume that it really isn't super clear whether characters actually use Rings for anything directly, much less go out of their way to collect them on their adventures. Not to mention we _never_ see Sonic actually go out of his way to collect Rings in cutscenes, at least as far as I remember. There's really nothing to support Rings functioning the way they do in gameplay, which makes Sonic Prime's incorporation of them feel very superficial. As for Tails being born on Westside... well, that's not particularly clear, since he was apparently on Cocoa Island before the events of Sonic 2. But with or without Tails' Adventure, it's pretty clear that he was living on Westside Island by the time he met Sonic. The fact that Sonic Prime goes out of its way to place everyone on South Island is bothersome. ... Not to mention that Sonic Prime actively ignores that South Island is a thing, rather making it out to be just Green Hill Zone lol. ... In any case, great vid overall. It was great to hear the clarification of theme vs subject, as well as a breakdown of _why_ the Boss Cage Maze segment felt like a drag. It's unfortunate that they felt the need to write Sonic's character terribly though. They should've written a story that fit the character, rather than forcing the character to be different to fit the story. ... that being said, is it too much to hope that Shadow will actually both be important to the story _and_ be written well? I think it'd be neat for Shadow to team up with Sonic to save the multiverse, but part of me is afraid the writers will focus too much on their rivalry. I can definitely see it as a point of "character development" for Sonic to learn how to get along with Shadow when the original Sonic could already do that well enough, especially when the situation calls for it. Overall, literally none of this would be as nearly as much of a problem if Prime didn't claim to be canon lol.
Glad you enjoyed it! I sincerely hope part 2 of Sonic Prime will be a lot better as well. Also yeah, Shadow definitely needs some time to shine and develop. I think that until Sonic Movie 3 happens Shadow will continue being written in this extremely jarring way. Sonic Movie 3 will likely convince Sega that Shadow is better as a character with depth. Sadly I’m sure that Sonic and Shadow will basically just annoy each other for the majority of Sonic Prime, if they even stick together. Changing a character to fit the narrative is a writing blunder, but it is strangely a very common thing, and nobody has ever liked it ever so I don’t know why it keeps happening. What’s funny is that Logan McPherson has said that he actually thinks that Sonic ignores his friends all the time. So Logan didn’t write Sonic toward the narrative, he genuinely believes that Sonic is just a jerk to them, I don’t know how that went right over Sega’s heads?? If the show never said it was canon, then yeah, it would just be its own thing and it would be a pretty decent Sonic Story. - Everything you said concerning the rings is perfectly valid. I wasn’t trying to imply that rings don’t exist at all, only that they aren’t a tool for invincibility, as well as them not just waiting around in creative patterns waiting for people to run and collect them. I’m sure rings come from somewhere though. For the most part, the franchise has treated rings as purely for points, damage, and other exclusive gameplay purposes. I also don’t have a problem with ring energy being used to power machines and the like when they use them for that. The rings are offhandedly referenced in the story occasionally, however they’re either a fourth wall breaking joke or they’re talked about purely for gameplay mechanic explanations such as not dying in super forms. - Concerning the canon though. Cocoa Island doesn’t exist, atleast as Tail’s first home if it’s some war-zone place that they pitched it as. Tail’s Adventure also couldn’t have possibly happened and couldn’t be part of the canon. Back in the Sega Genesis-Dreamcast era, there were a lot of games that released that were purely spin offs and weren’t actually parts of the story. They’re also never referenced, only cementing their non-canon identity. Knuckles Chaotix being one of those games that isn’t canon as well, because the Chaotix were completely re-written and were pretty crucial to that story, with Takashi Izuka confirming that in Sonic Heroes the Chaotix are not the same characters, only based off of them. Also the inclusion of Mighty in Knuckles Chaotix, who is another non-canon character to the main time-line. From my understanding, Sonic Mania is set in an entirely alternate universe set in the past, so even if Sonic Mania Adventures shorts are canon, Knuckles Chaotix can only take place in that dimension, and not the main timeline rendering it alternate canon like Sonic Boom, Sonic X, etc. This also seems to be the case with Sonic Battle leading all the way to Sonic Advance 3. Way too many contradictions and literal continent changes that couldn’t possibly be a thing. - As for the Sonic Rivals games, the fact that they were never released in Japan automatically makes them non-canon, they will never be referenced or even be implied to exist. The things that happen in those games can be adapted, but the games themselves aren’t canon.
@@kotytang Huh... I'm not really sure where Logan McPherson got that. I guess he's only seen the games post _Sonic Free Riders?_ I figured that they were flanderizing Sonic's character so they could write a more formulaic character arc rather than working with his actual characterization... but maybe they were genuinely basing it off of his personality from recent games? .... annnd I forgot that TailsTube said that Tails was born on West Side Island. That actually makes sense. It was probably what they intended when he was first conceptualized tbh. Is Mighty actually non-canon to the main universe though? 'cause he originates from _SegaSonic the Hedgehog_ which, while incredibly obscure, isn't exactly confirmed to be non-canon to my knowledge. Presumably most Classic Era games should still be canon to the main universe. Huh, didn't know that tidbit about the Rivals games. Them being non-canon basically throws Silver's entire backstory, motivations, and relationship with other characters into limbo _again._ Sonic Team literally won't give this guy a break lol. But Iizuka did write the Rivals games, so it's likely that they're using it as a vague base for Silver's existence as a character.
@@someotherstranger It’s in an interview with a channel called “Jana on Camera” if you want to hear it, it’s at about the 3:25 minute mark. I didn’t even know of the interview until after this video, or I would have included it. -- My problem with Mighty being canon is that SegaSonic was exclusively an arcade machine game, and never released on a home console and sega have gone out of their way to essentially retcon almost every game pre Sonic adventure, to the point that only Sonic 1 to Sonic 3, plus Sonic CD are confirmed canon. I can only see him existing in Mania’s dimension, if at all. Anything that doesn’t release on a major console can pretty much be assumed to not be canon unless specifically stated, or reinforced by the main games. Essentially for SegaSonic specifically, it’s the exclusivity playing a major role in if it’s canon, if it’s not accessible by either Japan itself, or a wide audience then it’s very doubtful that Sega would ever include it canonically. - I believe that concepts from Rivals are absolutely considered, but the specific stories told in the game are not canon, only the certain adaptions that they give to Silver’s rewrite. But next to no Japanese person is going to purchase an American version of a PSP to play Sonic.
@@kotytang Oh cool, thanks for pointing me to it. I watched that segment and... wow, he's really off the mark. In the vast majority of Sonic's portrayals he's always appreciated his friends and relied on their unique abilities, and he's incredibly willing to work with others to stop threats. It doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope for Prime's writing, nor SEGA's ability to keep their franchise consistent. ... A big reason (aside from its obscurity) that SegaSonic hasn't released on home consoles is that its unique controls are rather tricky to emulate with standard controllers. But I get your point, it makes sense that SEGA wouldn't exactly consider the more obscure Classic-era games as canon at this point, especially with their attempts to consolidate everything. As for Rivals, that makes sense. It's probably for the better, but SEGA really ought to give Silver a proper origin sometime lol.
Actually, we dont know how far apart South Island is from West Side Island. They could be miles apart or right next to each other. Also, remember that South Island is a drifting island, so there could be times that it passes by West Side. 🤓
@@franklycentral48 Sonic Origins showed the distance between the islands was a very far distance away. That’s some crazy ass drift if it’s rubbing against another island
I wouldn't doubt it. I seeked out the show and tried to watch episode 1, but I have the same issue as I had with Ben 10 as a kid; it just puts me to sleep.
But. SEGA had little to do with this show. This is more the result of Man Of Action skimming the Wiki/bible pages, going over Ian's suggestion notes and then regurgitating pieces of those amidsth their own plot concept.
That’s weird. I would assume an ignored invincibility item that casually floats around the world would be more detrimental to the story than Flickys being used again. Lol
Sonic is definitely not awkward, lol. Sonic and Elise were supposed to fall for each other. Sonic was written as though he didn’t know how to handle those intimate emotions. That doesn’t make somebody inherently awkward. The Handkerchief moment was just a cringe attempt at an emotional scene, not Sonic being awkward. Sonic doesn’t act that way with any other females across the board.
@@kotytang Yeah no, he *is* awkward, even as far as going outside alone instead of celebrating with everyone else at the end of Forces. In similar manners he's not good with words at all, just "you can do it" "superpower of teamwork" and so, he isn't supposed to have that much social skills
@@miadatenshi9903 Give me the definition of Awkward, because clearly you don’t know what awkward means. Every single character talks about teamwork and friendship except for characters akin to Shadow and the villains. Are you also saying they’re socially inept? Lmfao.
@@Sofia_Writes Just watched it, disagree with her take. Plus she outs herself within the 2 minute mark by saying “I’m going to TRY and debunk [that Sonic is an Ambivert]” Sonic is an ambivert and always have been, if you’re interested in my thoughts while watching her video here ya go; ==================================== 1; Her first example; Sonic OVA. Already starting off on a bad foot; using a non-canon movie to prove her point. - 2; Sonic Adventure, Sonic sees Tails crash his plane, and he seems to get upset that he has to help Tails. She’s correct that Sonic doesn’t want his alone time interrupted, man’s was literally napping. I dunno if you’ve ever been woken from napping or sleeping and forced to get up, but that is a naturally reaction for anybody. As a side, I really dislike when somebody uses obviously bad line delivery to prove a point. Junichi Kanemaru’s acting as Sonic in especially Adventure 1 was pretty bad, it was clearly one of his first acting roles. - 3; After Sonic saves Tails; Fukurou attempts to use Sonic saying “Yeah I guess so” in reply to Tails saying that it’s been a while since they’ve seen each other. She purposely skips over why Sonic says “yeah I guess so”. Sonic’s next line is “More importantly what happened? It’s not like you to crash the plane like that.” This is either a failure on her end to read the room, or she’s purposely hiding information and trying to make it seem like Sonic is more concerned about being away from everybody than worrying about his friends. Sonic is more concerned about the fact that Tails was in danger than catching up, and he wanted to know why. View any scene where somebody says “Long time no see to Sonic.” His response is entirely different than in SA1, and he’s much more excited every time. - 4; Sonic X as an example. Once again non-canon material in an attempt to prove somebody’s personality. - 5; “Sonic doesn’t speak much in groups but everybody else does.” This contradicts her earlier statement as she shows scenes where Knuckles is outwardly spoken especially in large groups. This is a contradiction because earlier she claimed that Knuckles is an introvert. so is Knuckles now an extrovert in her attempt to prove Sonic is an introvert? This also ignores Sonic’s straight to the point personality trait, Sonic doesn’t waste time on details, he’d rather be acting and figuring out what’s happening actively, so if everybody else is talking he doesn’t have much to say regardless. - 6; An extrovert would immediately jump into the fray to stop the negativity of Jet arguing with Amy. Sonic is literally trying to find out why Jet is mad in these scene for one, and two an extrovert doesn’t immediately jump in to defend somebody. Personalities aren’t black and white, an extrovert may very well sit back and listen before taking on what somebody is saying. Furthermore being an introvert is not a personality type, it’s a trait, you don’t have every single quality of an introvert just because you’re introverted. - 7; Sonic is only outspoken when fighting Eggman’s robots and Eggman. Sonic is outspoken with nearly every villain and antagonist, Eggman isn’t the only one, this is just false…in fact, Sonic LITERALLY does this to Jet; the character she’s using as an example that Sonic doesn’t act that way toward in the same game. Shadow is a perfect example that she’s wrong, Sonic was quick to fight the dude and had all types of things to say to him when they first met. Sonic’s banter even continued to amp up throughout the game. - 8; Sonic is not a jock he has the ability to think clearly. nobody in existence has ever said he was a jock. She also says that “Sonic is willing to stay in prison…to think about Shadow and the problem he is in.” That is literally not what happened, and even what Sonic is saying ON SCREEN while she’s saying this contradicts that. Sonic purposely got captured by GUN to look for clues on who Shadow is, not be in prison and deeply think about his life and what’s happening. - 9; Sonic X again. non-canon so everything she’s saying is irrelevant. - 10; People Misunderstanding Sonic’s feelings. She says that Sonic is unable to cry and that’s an introvert trait for them to hide their feelings. This is once again, literally not true for every single introvert. It also ONCE AGAIN contradicts her saying that Knuckles is an introvert because she uses two examples of him getting angry and frustrated…so again, is Knuckles an introvert or an extrovert to her because he’s willing to display that he’s angry? Sonic not showing his emotions is a trait of who he is, he naturally looks on the positive side of things. She even tries to say that Sonic is reserved when Sonic loses the race with Jet and doesn’t want to show his true anger… uh WHAT?? Not only does Sonic GROWL at Jet after losing because he CHEATED, Sonic PUNCHING THE GROUND is not a “reserved” way to handle anything wtf?? - 11; Sonic has let his emotions slip on occasion. Using deaths as Sonic letting “his emotions slip” is mad CRAZY. Getting upset while watching Shara and Elise literally DYING right in front of him is not an emotional slip Lmfao. - 12; Sonic doesn’t like the center of attention or compliments. Uses Sonic X for nearly every single example to prove this, so I’ll only tackle the games she brings up. She tries to slip in Sonic 06 as Sonic being shy toward compliments. The more appropriate analysis of this scene would be to show how Sonic deals with girls coming onto him. Even then that isn’t Sonic being an introvert, it’s him not having a romantic side to him. She even tries to slip in Tails complimenting Sonic in Riders, Sonic laughs at Tails complimenting him, and then is interrupted by Jet before he can speak. Sonic has received numerous compliments throughout the series he never gets bashful over it, he generally gives them a compliment right back. She uses Sonic saying that Shara is making him blush as a joke to her info dumping his legendary status is not how Fukurou has described an “introvert” would act in her video. Using Black Knight to show that he chuckles at Caliburn giving him the title of a Knight and then him telling Merlina to stop complimenting him to show that he’s not proud or noble. This is true Sonic isn’t proud or in your face about his achievements. Introverts can absolutely be proud, and are even in quite a few cases in your face about what they achieved because they want recognition. This is one of the most common problems with introverts; the longing to be seen. - 13; Sonic’s confidence makes people think he’s extroverted… Sonic never project or reveal his current feelings, even when asked. Well this is just not true at all, if Sonic is asked he literally ALWAYS says how he feels. I find it funny how Fukurou goes on to explain the many nuances of introverted and extroverted people, while purposely ignoring how black and white she’s been placing Sonic’s introverted nature throughout the video. She then closes off this section by once again making a black and white statement “extroverts like to open up about how they feel, introverts don’t.” ….k She then goes on to show how Sonic doesn’t reveal his true feelings ever, as he makes cartoony facial expressions at Amy aggressively fantasizing about him. She also shows that Sonic never talks about his Werehog form to Tails…that’s funny….The conversation they have next IN THAT SAME CUTSCENE is Sonic talking to Tails about his new form. Funny how she leaves that part out. She uses a good example for Sonic and the secret rings where Sonic pretends the flame doesn’t bother him, again, this is not his introverted nature coming out. Always seeing the positives and trying to make everybody around you happy is a very common EXTROVERTED trait. It’s important to note that Sonic also makes very fast friends with Shara, something an introvert would literally struggle to do if their likes didn’t even properly align. She uses 06 as Sonic not wanting to get personal with Elise, as I said earlier, Sonic is very bad at romance, and those women complimenting him and touching him makes him uneasy. This is because Sonic is awkward around women that like him. let’s not leave out that Sonic has no problem with touching and complimenting people who just treat him as a friend. - 14; Sonic is Awkward. He’s not. Sonic is the first to speak, first to act, first to cheer somebody up, always knows the right things to say, always knows how to handle a situation, can make friends with ease, can flip the morality of characters, is very assertive in how he chooses to live his life, etc etc. Sonic knows exactly who he is, how he feels, and what he wants. The confidence is not a facade and literally zero percent of scenes have ever proven his confidence is a second face. The only time I would ever agree that Sonic is awkward is when it comes to romance, his literal only social weakness. -- Fukurou then proudly claims that Sonic fits the description of an introvert…. By not proving that he’s an introvert, nice. Sonic remains an ambivert.
Ok if you look close at the shattering of the Paradox Presume. Their whore four shards. The red one is in New Yoke City. Green the Jungle one. The blue one is the possession Pirate Dred. So... where's the yellow one?
Probably in the Grim that Nine takes Sonic to, unless they plan on making more dimensions. Or it's just a rainbow of colors and they didn't really think about that.
@@kotytang I don't know. We got to see dimensions that focused on (in one way or another) Tails Amy & Knuckles. If we do find the yellow one we might just get a Rouge episode.
@@callumcrane241 New Yoke was pretty much a Rouge and Tails dimension. In the forest Rouge and Amy both played major roles. The Pirate was all Knuckles though. I think we covered everybody, unless they feel the need to really hammer in a character's theme they feel they haven't explored yet.
Saying Sonic prime is canon to the game timeline, is like saying the clone wars 2008 is canon to the EU, AKA it isn't I would like to add that in season 2 he said "to rebuilt green hill" shadow said the entire world, in the games, green hill clearly not THE ENTIRE PLANET (it would be any sonic fan's nightmare lol)
I'm pretty sure that the Clone Wars TV Show is part of the Star Wars Canon. And I think as far as Shadow or anybody else is concerned their world doesn't exist. But it is entirely possible that only Green Hill was destroyed by the Prism.
@@shardsoftime0952 Yeah, but I don't know if it's the case that anybody is arguing for dead canon. That's like trying to shoe-horn the Sonic Archie comic into the conversation. Once it's dead it's pretty useless to really bring it into discussion outside of itself.
@@kotytang except that when the clone wars was made at the time the EU wasn't dead, still reminds me a lot of what sonic prime and IDW sonic is doing to the sonic canon right now
@@shardsoftime0952 True, the original EU is gone, but Disney has their own EU at this point; Mandalorian, the new trilogy, Boba Fett, their own prequels, the video games, etc. So saying EU when talking about Star Wars would immediately confuse anybody you talk to if your goal is to talk about the now defunct EU... I don't even think it's the case that anything in the original star wars EU was even canon. Whenever I heard anything about it they all sounded like fan-fiction pieces, and only a handful of things were genuinely accepted or read by anybody. From what I understand, when it comes to the video games at least, the star wars lore team are extremely on point in depicting accurate moments and timelines, whereas the Sonic Lore Team barely even seem to recognize a moment that happened in one of the video games they're supposed to be following. Sonic Prime and IDW absolutely are muddying the waters of canon though. Both have moments of pure inconsistency and flat out incorrect lore.
18:18 you used the wrong example to prove rings are not canon the fight with chaos is literally one of the few times rings are actually seen in cutscene before a boss fight.
Incorrect. Those are objects/artifacts from the in-game engine as the cutscene takes place inside the boss-arena. They are not actually supposed to be in the scene.
Just for future reference, since you comment a lot on my videos, and to thank you for it; I purposely use scenes like that to bait people into giving the response you just gave. It’s low hanging fruit that I plant to see if people like you are thinking critically, or just fishing for flaws in my arguments. It makes it easy to call you out, because I have a reply pre-prepared.
I think the show's abrupt ending is due to the whole thing about the whole: "We split our Episode Order into 3 Seasons to not pay the animators as much"
It's all one season, but I get what you're saying. It's probably to gauge the audience's reaction to the show as well, could be to guarantee subscriptions to Netflix throughout the year. I don't really follow the business side of things, that's not my expertise, so I don't really comment on it. I assume the animators pretty much finished Sonic Prime long before they announced part 2, and if somehow there's a second season for the show they'll be brought back on, or cycle new animators.
Everyone's haunt isn't Greenhill that's why I don't believe prime is canon, but maybe that changes by the end. In that fixing everything changes to the game canon. Tired of them overusing green hill. There's no escape...
I doubt they would just revert to Video Game Canon, I don't even know what that would look like, or how that would even work. Sonic is just going to walk away from this appreciating his friends more, I'm sure.
11:05 actually he does remember 06. In generations, the room you can watch scenes again or look at the characters (I forgot if the room has a name has or not) is stated to be a collection of Sonic's memories, and it includes 06 It's stated in the Japanese version I don't remember if it is in the English version
It’s possible that Sonic subconsciously remembers the events of 06. But I believe that the implication at the end of that story was that it’s more like a feeling of Deja Vu. So the time eater forcing out the events of 06 from the depths of Sonic’s memories is likely, although what all Sonic remembers from the game is questionable.
While I did enjoy what Prime and Frontiers had to offer, trying to make *all* Sonic games cannon is a *big* mistake! Knuckles explained that he wanted to be more free, rather than having to guard the Master Emerald all the time, but who was guarding the Master Emerald during the Riders trilogy? Who was guarding it in Lost World, and where the heck was it in Forces?! I think they should just say "All the games are 50% cannon to the story we're writing". That way they can keep Dark Gaia, the Phantom Ruby, and other important things cannon, without creating inconsistencies.
Creating anything other than 100% canon will create inconsistencies, that's not really how canon works. What you're actually wanting is for the stories to be episodic and have no relation to each other, similar to the Mario series, where it's more about what's happening in the game rather than what everybody's already been through.
I'm a long-time fan of the Sonic games, having played them since the Genesis era. However, when it comes to the cartoons, I've always preferred the lighter, more comedy-based ones (Adventures and Boom) over the darker, more action-based ones (SatAM, Underground, X, and Prime). I've seen the first eight episodes of Prime on Netflix and I'm mainly mixed on the series. I do like the show's concept of Sonic visiting different dimensions and meeting different versions of his friends. Thus far, he's visited a dystopian city ruled by Eggman's relatives, a jungle, and a pirate ship on the open seas. I also like the references to the games, namely the password to Tails' workshop being 1992 (a reference to the release date of Sonic the Hedgehog 2), and Big the Cat being referred to as "Citizen 1998" (a reference to the Japanese release date of Sonic Adventure). Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the series' dramatic tone, particularly in episodes where Sonic visits New Yoke City. I get that Prime was going for a more SatAM vibe, since that show was the first Sonic cartoon to be renewed for a second season, but Underground tried it and it didn't work. Also, the ending to the first season finale, "There's No 'Arrgh' in Team" left a bad taste in my mouth, as Sonic had met Shadow in the Limbo Dimension, who told him that their world is in danger thanks to him, setting up a cliffhanger for the next season. To my knowledge, every Sonic cartoon up to Prime has ended on an unresolved cliffhanger. A few of them, such as SatAM, X, and Boom did get renewed for a second season, but even those teased new seasons that never came to be due to circumstances beyond their control. For SatAM, it was because Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers was beating it in the ratings, and for Boom, it was because Christina Miller, the president of Cartoon Network at the time, had turned the channel into a dumping ground for Toddler Titans reruns. I know that Sega has officially confirmed that Prime will be renewed for a second season, and I do want to be optimistic about Prime being the first Sonic cartoon to break the chain and end on a proper resolution, but I doubt that's going to happen.
Sonic Prime wasn’t green lit for a season 2, they just said that part 2 is coming later this year. It’s also a Netflix series, so they have a 24 episode contract that they have to complete regardless. This is part 1 of 3, it’s all one season. I don’t agree that Sonic Prime has a dramatic tone at all, it’s way too goofy to be considered dramatic.
I disagree, Frontiers is in fact terribly written, and calling Ian Flynn a phenomenal writer is a MASSIVE exaggeration. Maybe if he was the only writer you’ve ever seen then sure. I’ve made three videos that discuss both topics. I’m also doing an ongoing series that goes over the IDW series from start to finish, so you can watch me review Ian's writing decisions in real time. If you want to have a discussion about the writing in Frontiers, my next comment will link three of my own videos that go over Frontiers, and Ian Flynn's writing. Feel free to add your comments to the videos of either the original game's story, or the update's
This is my review of Sonic Frontiers’ writing. ruclips.net/video/7WpnaLpBqZ8/видео.htmlsi=T3mIMvz5SA2oQL1q -------- This is my review of the DLC Final Horizon for Frontiers ruclips.net/video/99EEmVgYjrM/видео.htmlsi=mLOlca6WkUoCfUE8 -------- This includes my current stance on Ian Flynn’s writing (this will take you directly to the timestamp.) ruclips.net/video/QyGYFtS2qjg/видео.htmlsi=-vFkL3cNjiH8C8FB&t=1642
@@kotytang I think alot of your criticisms of Ian's writing for IDW comics come down to him being under pressure from sega to create an established canon where IDW is apart of the video games, which to be honest I disagree with. I understand things such as the deadly six or the constant lore references are slightly annoying though. I also should say I have not read IDW so it's entirely possibly Ian has just fallen off recently, but if you still haven't read any archie as you said, I recommend reading the house of cards or eggman empire sagas. I've reread them many times and Ian Flynn was masterful in capturing a good sonic story- He had a serious enough plotline to really be followed and interested in without it becoming overly edgy or self serious, he always had fun with it. His characterization felt balanced and real, no character was poorly handled or annoying and the interactions felt real. I recommend watching Lowarts videos covering archie sonic. He delves into how Ian Flynn handled the characters and plotlines well.
@hibernian797 I’ll eventually cover Archie myself and we’ll see if it’s that good. As for your comments about Ian being under pressure by SEGA- no, that is not how writing, nor mandates work. If a writer can’t work in the confines of what a company’s characters can or can’t do, then they should not be a writer for that company. If it’s so hard to stay on brand while writing, then I question the ability you have within your own character’s staying on brand with themselves. Using SEGA mandates as a restriction is just entirely false and shows a lack of understanding on writing itself. Sega themselves would also adhere to these mandates when writing their own stories, and had been from 98-2009 before they started outsourcing for writers and rebranding.
I’m aware of what they’re doing. Having an arc in the show that completely goes against who the character already is makes absolutely 0 sense. You don’t change a character’s personality to fit your narrative.
@@kotytang apparently the Arc is about sonic learning about teamwork??? But that doesn’t work at all, because sonic has learnt about teamwork in past games which shows how bad this idea is even forces doesn’t discard, sonics, maturity and teamwork this show straight up ignores that and makes sonic out to be a incompetent piece of shit honestly, I know it sounds random, but personally the only way I see prime working is if this Took place in the mania, timeline and prime sonic is supposed to be classic sonic from forces for one that would make a little sense since that’s an alternate timeline so things are going to have to be different. Therefore I love adventures are going to be different for both sonics. And two if it was the case that would make it A little better since it would be a callback to watch sonic says the classic sonic at the end of generations
@@kotytang It makes his relationships hierarchal, placing him above the others in terms of who knows best. And it's just not believable having one person being the all-knowing one, especially someone that young.
@EGLchan I strongly disagree. I don’t think it puts him above others or implies that he knows best. Just because you’re wise doesn’t mean you’re correct. It’s his way of looking at life that makes him wise. Sonic doesn’t have the answers for a ton of things, but his philosophy geared toward making the best out of life and striving for peace and freedom is what makes him so wise. He doesn’t get held down by many of the finer details. This doesn’t mean that he’s extremely smart and has the answer to everything though. There are actually loads of people like this, people who have a natural leadership and attractive personalities. There’s always one person out of a group of friends that’s seen as sort of the “main friend” and Sonic is that. To be a celebrity that’s a major personality trait you almost require.
i totally agree that it doesn't make any sense for Prime to be cannon. When I saw how immature and dim witted Prime Sonic was compared to normal game Sonic, I though this was some spin off thing. It doesn't make sense for Sonic to suddenly be so immature and childish when this isn't what his personality is like in the games. This does not at all feel like the same Sonic who went through the events of SA2, or Secret Rings, or Black Knight. That Sonic had actual maturity.
Glad you understand, I don’t like Sonic being reduced to generic cartoon silly protagonist. His character has been building to have a lot more depth than that. With Sega now trying to merge the canons there’s no excuse to just ignore somebody’s character like that. I understand slight changes, but this is a major change to who Sonic is.
Fr
They do this all under the excuse that prime is a kids show. Well, I say they insult kids. I don't think they'd like sonic being lobotimized. It may hinder a 2nd season from happening once the hype dies down.
@Snaaaaap i could see this as a younger Sonic, but not the Sonic thats gone through the events of the games. Sonic Heroes in particular showed Sonic as a natural leader who inspires his team mates and is willing to let others take charge of a situation if that's the best course of action. SA2 showed Sonic being willing to let Tails take point with the plan and follow his lead when necessary.
Spoilers if you have not finished season 2 yet
For some reason in S2 E6, Sonic says "Is that a knockoff of me?" In reaction to Chaos Sonic, as if this is the first time he's seen a robot version of himself...
Lmao, yup, I immediately thought the same thing. One of the most obvious things Sonic wouldn’t be surprised about.
I don’t understand how they can say “Sega is heavily involved” while also making it clear Sega aren’t even paying attention to the show
@@kotytangthey likely just mean ian Flynn lol
@@shardsoftime0952ian Flynn writing is better bruh
@charmingmagican9821 no he isn't, he's fucking Generic.
Give us back Maekawa Sega!!!
18:19 Amazing Sonic impression 🗿
Thank you, I should be Sonic next
Better than Roger
I honestly believe they only said it's canon to make the fans watch the show. After all, not many people watched Sonic Boom, and Sega probably assumed it was because it takes place in an alternate reality from the games (as if being based on the bad game of the same name wasn't the reason).
Saying that something is canon is a trap that many fans have already fallen into: "Oh, the writing has problems, and there are many inconsistencies. But hey!! The creators said it's canon so it doesn't matter!".
Whether or not the initial plan was just to make it as a spiritual tie in, the implication from the writers being that it is in fact canon, added on with the intervention of Sega's writing team, as well as assistance from Ian Flynn makes Sonic Prime one of the most crucial TV shows that Sonic has ever had. We don't really know how the show will end, or where it even fits into the canon quite yet. I wouldn't be surprised if after the show is over it's never referenced again. This is also a One Season show, unless every season is just going to be Sonic still trying to fix the Paradox Prism, the next show would have to be something entirely different.
When it comes to just basic fans of the Sonic Franchise, saying something is canon would work for them, the details and issues it brings are pretty much why we're in the situation we are now, everybody just mindlessly accepting whatever is brought to them and not judging it accordingly. Thankfully the outcry finally reached Sega's radar and we're getting what they think is a unified canon, even though they're causing problems every step of the way since Sega seems to be starting at the beginning of Sonic for their lore, rather than the entire series.
Sonic Boom was actually good though.
It didnt try to be something else and Acknowledged that they didnt have to be serious.
Sonic Boom is actually Canon. Cause in Frontiers, Amy says, that she asks herswlf if STICKS and Cream have Time to do smth with her. So Sticks is Canon to the Games and that means that Sonic boom is too.
No, Sonic Boom is not canon. Just Sticks.
@@kotytang oh, so shes a canon Character in the Franchise, but the events, that happen in Sonic Boom aren't Canon? Now I get it. I was confused why everyone was saying that sonic boom isn't canon, when Sticks was mentioned.
And again, agree on how immature and stupid they've made Sonic. The complete opposite of how he's like in the games, especially Frontiers.
I don't like the interpretation of Sonic in Frontiers. Whoever was in charge of creating Sonic's personality in that completely messed up as well.
@@kotytang I don't like him in Frontiers either, he feels like a totally different character. But that's another subject for that game specifically.
What I'm saying is that it's really jarring to see the Sonic in Prime RIGHT AFTER we've experienced the one in Frontiers. They are two completely different people, and yet the writers are trying to imply that they are the same. It feels like whiplash.
@@100lovenana I gotchu, there are too many interpretations of Sonic and none of them correct.
I’m very curious what’s next for Sonic after the show and Frontiers though.
@@100lovenana it's the 90s cartoons all over again
Putting X on the same writing level as colors is some nasty work
Just in the category of bad writers, just because one bad writer is better than another bad writer doesn't make it good writing, they're still both bad writers.
I don't agree with me saying that X is poorly written today, only because I don't really remember that show much. I just remember not liking it.
Maybe I'l cover it someday, and I can express the incredible show that I've forgotten all about.
I kinda wish Prime wasnt canon since theres no other characters except the prime cast and the shatterverse characters.
WAIT A MINUTE I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING!
So the paradox prysm was inside the big mountain on south island right? And eggman acts as if he's been planing on getting it for a while right? And scrapbrain was in that same mountain right?
So eggman seriously had the power to rewrite reality under his basement and conveniently never tried getting it?
WHO WROTE THIS?
Oh god
@@LannyLeArtist i don't even care anymore, this show is fundementaly broken, they might as well tell us that sonic and knuckles met in hidden palace...
OH WAIT THEY DID, FUCK THIS SHOW!
Man Of Action, that's who.
17:07 - 18:55 (I think)
I completely understand but...
This Sonic Animated Retelling: Are we a joke to you?
Video: ruclips.net/video/wOXzHX5iFZs/видео.html
Hey, At least it’s a fan project, so I wouldn’t really judge it as harshly lol. But even so, if you include one thing that’s exclusive to gameplay you do have to pretty much include it all.
@@kotytang I know, I'm sorry, I just had a bad day.
Death of the Author quote incoming there
Finally got around to watching this. Definitely cathartic hearing you break things down like this, though some food for thought...
Rings don't function the way they do in gameplay, but they definitely exist within the canon of Sonic, seemingly as both a power source and a currency. Eggman is ironically a good example of this, having built a theme park using Rings he's collected from around the world in _Shadow the Hedgehog,_ and using Rings to power his robots in _Sonic Advance 3,_ though there's a number of other examples.
There's also the plot-specific instances of Rings or variations of Rings, like the engraved Ring that Sonic finds at the beginning of _Sonic 3 & Knuckles_ or the entirety of _Knuckles Chaotix._
There _are_ mentions of Sonic characters using Rings directly, such as a passing mention in _Knuckles Chaotix,_ and they were mentioned as restoring stamina in _Sonic Rivals 2..._ buuut considering the fact that _Knuckles Chaotix_ is barely acknowledged and the _Rivals_ games aren't exactly known for their lore-consistent writing _(cough_ Eggman Nega _cough)_, it's safe to assume that it really isn't super clear whether characters actually use Rings for anything directly, much less go out of their way to collect them on their adventures.
Not to mention we _never_ see Sonic actually go out of his way to collect Rings in cutscenes, at least as far as I remember. There's really nothing to support Rings functioning the way they do in gameplay, which makes Sonic Prime's incorporation of them feel very superficial.
As for Tails being born on Westside... well, that's not particularly clear, since he was apparently on Cocoa Island before the events of Sonic 2. But with or without Tails' Adventure, it's pretty clear that he was living on Westside Island by the time he met Sonic. The fact that Sonic Prime goes out of its way to place everyone on South Island is bothersome.
... Not to mention that Sonic Prime actively ignores that South Island is a thing, rather making it out to be just Green Hill Zone lol.
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In any case, great vid overall. It was great to hear the clarification of theme vs subject, as well as a breakdown of _why_ the Boss Cage Maze segment felt like a drag. It's unfortunate that they felt the need to write Sonic's character terribly though. They should've written a story that fit the character, rather than forcing the character to be different to fit the story.
... that being said, is it too much to hope that Shadow will actually both be important to the story _and_ be written well? I think it'd be neat for Shadow to team up with Sonic to save the multiverse, but part of me is afraid the writers will focus too much on their rivalry. I can definitely see it as a point of "character development" for Sonic to learn how to get along with Shadow when the original Sonic could already do that well enough, especially when the situation calls for it.
Overall, literally none of this would be as nearly as much of a problem if Prime didn't claim to be canon lol.
Glad you enjoyed it! I sincerely hope part 2 of Sonic Prime will be a lot better as well. Also yeah, Shadow definitely needs some time to shine and develop. I think that until Sonic Movie 3 happens Shadow will continue being written in this extremely jarring way. Sonic Movie 3 will likely convince Sega that Shadow is better as a character with depth. Sadly I’m sure that Sonic and Shadow will basically just annoy each other for the majority of Sonic Prime, if they even stick together.
Changing a character to fit the narrative is a writing blunder, but it is strangely a very common thing, and nobody has ever liked it ever so I don’t know why it keeps happening.
What’s funny is that Logan McPherson has said that he actually thinks that Sonic ignores his friends all the time. So Logan didn’t write Sonic toward the narrative, he genuinely believes that Sonic is just a jerk to them, I don’t know how that went right over Sega’s heads??
If the show never said it was canon, then yeah, it would just be its own thing and it would be a pretty decent Sonic Story.
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Everything you said concerning the rings is perfectly valid. I wasn’t trying to imply that rings don’t exist at all, only that they aren’t a tool for invincibility, as well as them not just waiting around in creative patterns waiting for people to run and collect them. I’m sure rings come from somewhere though.
For the most part, the franchise has treated rings as purely for points, damage, and other exclusive gameplay purposes. I also don’t have a problem with ring energy being used to power machines and the like when they use them for that.
The rings are offhandedly referenced in the story occasionally, however they’re either a fourth wall breaking joke or they’re talked about purely for gameplay mechanic explanations such as not dying in super forms.
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Concerning the canon though. Cocoa Island doesn’t exist, atleast as Tail’s first home if it’s some war-zone place that they pitched it as. Tail’s Adventure also couldn’t have possibly happened and couldn’t be part of the canon. Back in the Sega Genesis-Dreamcast era, there were a lot of games that released that were purely spin offs and weren’t actually parts of the story. They’re also never referenced, only cementing their non-canon identity. Knuckles Chaotix being one of those games that isn’t canon as well, because the Chaotix were completely re-written and were pretty crucial to that story, with Takashi Izuka confirming that in Sonic Heroes the Chaotix are not the same characters, only based off of them.
Also the inclusion of Mighty in Knuckles Chaotix, who is another non-canon character to the main time-line. From my understanding, Sonic Mania is set in an entirely alternate universe set in the past, so even if Sonic Mania Adventures shorts are canon, Knuckles Chaotix can only take place in that dimension, and not the main timeline rendering it alternate canon like Sonic Boom, Sonic X, etc.
This also seems to be the case with Sonic Battle leading all the way to Sonic Advance 3. Way too many contradictions and literal continent changes that couldn’t possibly be a thing.
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As for the Sonic Rivals games, the fact that they were never released in Japan automatically makes them non-canon, they will never be referenced or even be implied to exist. The things that happen in those games can be adapted, but the games themselves aren’t canon.
@@kotytang
Huh... I'm not really sure where Logan McPherson got that. I guess he's only seen the games post _Sonic Free Riders?_ I figured that they were flanderizing Sonic's character so they could write a more formulaic character arc rather than working with his actual characterization... but maybe they were genuinely basing it off of his personality from recent games?
.... annnd I forgot that TailsTube said that Tails was born on West Side Island. That actually makes sense. It was probably what they intended when he was first conceptualized tbh.
Is Mighty actually non-canon to the main universe though? 'cause he originates from _SegaSonic the Hedgehog_ which, while incredibly obscure, isn't exactly confirmed to be non-canon to my knowledge. Presumably most Classic Era games should still be canon to the main universe.
Huh, didn't know that tidbit about the Rivals games. Them being non-canon basically throws Silver's entire backstory, motivations, and relationship with other characters into limbo _again._ Sonic Team literally won't give this guy a break lol. But Iizuka did write the Rivals games, so it's likely that they're using it as a vague base for Silver's existence as a character.
@@someotherstranger It’s in an interview with a channel called “Jana on Camera” if you want to hear it, it’s at about the 3:25 minute mark. I didn’t even know of the interview until after this video, or I would have included it.
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My problem with Mighty being canon is that SegaSonic was exclusively an arcade machine game, and never released on a home console and sega have gone out of their way to essentially retcon almost every game pre Sonic adventure, to the point that only Sonic 1 to Sonic 3, plus Sonic CD are confirmed canon. I can only see him existing in Mania’s dimension, if at all. Anything that doesn’t release on a major console can pretty much be assumed to not be canon unless specifically stated, or reinforced by the main games.
Essentially for SegaSonic specifically, it’s the exclusivity playing a major role in if it’s canon, if it’s not accessible by either Japan itself, or a wide audience then it’s very doubtful that Sega would ever include it canonically.
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I believe that concepts from Rivals are absolutely considered, but the specific stories told in the game are not canon, only the certain adaptions that they give to Silver’s rewrite. But next to no Japanese person is going to purchase an American version of a PSP to play Sonic.
@@kotytang
Oh cool, thanks for pointing me to it. I watched that segment and... wow, he's really off the mark. In the vast majority of Sonic's portrayals he's always appreciated his friends and relied on their unique abilities, and he's incredibly willing to work with others to stop threats.
It doesn't exactly give me a lot of hope for Prime's writing, nor SEGA's ability to keep their franchise consistent.
...
A big reason (aside from its obscurity) that SegaSonic hasn't released on home consoles is that its unique controls are rather tricky to emulate with standard controllers. But I get your point, it makes sense that SEGA wouldn't exactly consider the more obscure Classic-era games as canon at this point, especially with their attempts to consolidate everything.
As for Rivals, that makes sense. It's probably for the better, but SEGA really ought to give Silver a proper origin sometime lol.
I wonder what you’ll think of Season 2
Which I haven’t seen yet myself
Currently watching and writing for the video right now.
@@kotytang Cool can’t wait
Actually, we dont know how far apart South Island is from West Side Island. They could be miles apart or right next to each other. Also, remember that South Island is a drifting island, so there could be times that it passes by West Side. 🤓
@@franklycentral48 Sonic Origins showed the distance between the islands was a very far distance away. That’s some crazy ass drift if it’s rubbing against another island
@kotytang oh yeah, it did do that didn't it?
And yeah that drift would be crazy but still possible. Just playing devils advocate here.
SatAM is a great show by comparison, lol
I don't remember enough about SatAM, but someday I'll get into it. We'll see which show tops which.
I wouldn't doubt it. I seeked out the show and tried to watch episode 1, but I have the same issue as I had with Ben 10 as a kid; it just puts me to sleep.
8:00 And the birdies and whatever other animals are there.
This show is a perfect example of Sega's obsession with Green Hill.
Green Hill's a dope level, lmao.
But. SEGA had little to do with this show. This is more the result of Man Of Action skimming the Wiki/bible pages, going over Ian's suggestion notes and then regurgitating pieces of those amidsth their own plot concept.
For some reason I don’t mind the rings, but the Flicky thing annoys me way too much
That’s weird. I would assume an ignored invincibility item that casually floats around the world would be more detrimental to the story than Flickys being used again. Lol
Is it weird that I thoguht that in Episode 5, Thorn was going to start when she trpped Sonic and head to kill her friends
12:00 Bro said "smile" to Elise like that's gonna solve her problems and the handkchifer moment in Secret Rings, pretty sure Sonic is awkward
Sonic is definitely not awkward, lol.
Sonic and Elise were supposed to fall for each other. Sonic was written as though he didn’t know how to handle those intimate emotions. That doesn’t make somebody inherently awkward. The Handkerchief moment was just a cringe attempt at an emotional scene, not Sonic being awkward.
Sonic doesn’t act that way with any other females across the board.
@@kotytang Yeah no, he *is* awkward, even as far as going outside alone instead of celebrating with everyone else at the end of Forces.
In similar manners he's not good with words at all, just "you can do it" "superpower of teamwork" and so, he isn't supposed to have that much social skills
@@miadatenshi9903 Give me the definition of Awkward, because clearly you don’t know what awkward means.
Every single character talks about teamwork and friendship except for characters akin to Shadow and the villains. Are you also saying they’re socially inept? Lmfao.
@@kotytangHey, you might wanna watch Fukuro Hoseki's videos on Sonic's personality. Because yeah Sonic is actually introverted
@@Sofia_Writes Just watched it, disagree with her take. Plus she outs herself within the 2 minute mark by saying “I’m going to TRY and debunk [that Sonic is an Ambivert]”
Sonic is an ambivert and always have been, if you’re interested in my thoughts while watching her video here ya go;
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1; Her first example; Sonic OVA.
Already starting off on a bad foot; using a non-canon movie to prove her point.
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2; Sonic Adventure, Sonic sees Tails crash his plane, and he seems to get upset that he has to help Tails.
She’s correct that Sonic doesn’t want his alone time interrupted, man’s was literally napping. I dunno if you’ve ever been woken from napping or sleeping and forced to get up, but that is a naturally reaction for anybody.
As a side, I really dislike when somebody uses obviously bad line delivery to prove a point. Junichi Kanemaru’s acting as Sonic in especially Adventure 1 was pretty bad, it was clearly one of his first acting roles.
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3; After Sonic saves Tails; Fukurou attempts to use Sonic saying “Yeah I guess so” in reply to Tails saying that it’s been a while since they’ve seen each other.
She purposely skips over why Sonic says “yeah I guess so”. Sonic’s next line is “More importantly what happened? It’s not like you to crash the plane like that.” This is either a failure on her end to read the room, or she’s purposely hiding information and trying to make it seem like Sonic is more concerned about being away from everybody than worrying about his friends. Sonic is more concerned about the fact that Tails was in danger than catching up, and he wanted to know why.
View any scene where somebody says “Long time no see to Sonic.” His response is entirely different than in SA1, and he’s much more excited every time.
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4; Sonic X as an example.
Once again non-canon material in an attempt to prove somebody’s personality.
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5; “Sonic doesn’t speak much in groups but everybody else does.”
This contradicts her earlier statement as she shows scenes where Knuckles is outwardly spoken especially in large groups. This is a contradiction because earlier she claimed that Knuckles is an introvert. so is Knuckles now an extrovert in her attempt to prove Sonic is an introvert? This also ignores Sonic’s straight to the point personality trait, Sonic doesn’t waste time on details, he’d rather be acting and figuring out what’s happening actively, so if everybody else is talking he doesn’t have much to say regardless.
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6; An extrovert would immediately jump into the fray to stop the negativity of Jet arguing with Amy.
Sonic is literally trying to find out why Jet is mad in these scene for one, and two an extrovert doesn’t immediately jump in to defend somebody. Personalities aren’t black and white, an extrovert may very well sit back and listen before taking on what somebody is saying. Furthermore being an introvert is not a personality type, it’s a trait, you don’t have every single quality of an introvert just because you’re introverted.
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7; Sonic is only outspoken when fighting Eggman’s robots and Eggman.
Sonic is outspoken with nearly every villain and antagonist, Eggman isn’t the only one, this is just false…in fact, Sonic LITERALLY does this to Jet; the character she’s using as an example that Sonic doesn’t act that way toward in the same game. Shadow is a perfect example that she’s wrong, Sonic was quick to fight the dude and had all types of things to say to him when they first met. Sonic’s banter even continued to amp up throughout the game.
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8; Sonic is not a jock he has the ability to think clearly.
nobody in existence has ever said he was a jock. She also says that “Sonic is willing to stay in prison…to think about Shadow and the problem he is in.” That is literally not what happened, and even what Sonic is saying ON SCREEN while she’s saying this contradicts that. Sonic purposely got captured by GUN to look for clues on who Shadow is, not be in prison and deeply think about his life and what’s happening.
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9; Sonic X again.
non-canon so everything she’s saying is irrelevant.
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10; People Misunderstanding Sonic’s feelings.
She says that Sonic is unable to cry and that’s an introvert trait for them to hide their feelings. This is once again, literally not true for every single introvert. It also ONCE AGAIN contradicts her saying that Knuckles is an introvert because she uses two examples of him getting angry and frustrated…so again, is Knuckles an introvert or an extrovert to her because he’s willing to display that he’s angry? Sonic not showing his emotions is a trait of who he is, he naturally looks on the positive side of things.
She even tries to say that Sonic is reserved when Sonic loses the race with Jet and doesn’t want to show his true anger… uh WHAT?? Not only does Sonic GROWL at Jet after losing because he CHEATED, Sonic PUNCHING THE GROUND is not a “reserved” way to handle anything wtf??
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11; Sonic has let his emotions slip on occasion.
Using deaths as Sonic letting “his emotions slip” is mad CRAZY. Getting upset while watching Shara and Elise literally DYING right in front of him is not an emotional slip Lmfao.
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12; Sonic doesn’t like the center of attention or compliments.
Uses Sonic X for nearly every single example to prove this, so I’ll only tackle the games she brings up.
She tries to slip in Sonic 06 as Sonic being shy toward compliments. The more appropriate analysis of this scene would be to show how Sonic deals with girls coming onto him. Even then that isn’t Sonic being an introvert, it’s him not having a romantic side to him.
She even tries to slip in Tails complimenting Sonic in Riders, Sonic laughs at Tails complimenting him, and then is interrupted by Jet before he can speak. Sonic has received numerous compliments throughout the series he never gets bashful over it, he generally gives them a compliment right back.
She uses Sonic saying that Shara is making him blush as a joke to her info dumping his legendary status is not how Fukurou has described an “introvert” would act in her video.
Using Black Knight to show that he chuckles at Caliburn giving him the title of a Knight and then him telling Merlina to stop complimenting him to show that he’s not proud or noble. This is true Sonic isn’t proud or in your face about his achievements. Introverts can absolutely be proud, and are even in quite a few cases in your face about what they achieved because they want recognition. This is one of the most common problems with introverts; the longing to be seen.
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13; Sonic’s confidence makes people think he’s extroverted… Sonic never project or reveal his current feelings, even when asked.
Well this is just not true at all, if Sonic is asked he literally ALWAYS says how he feels.
I find it funny how Fukurou goes on to explain the many nuances of introverted and extroverted people, while purposely ignoring how black and white she’s been placing Sonic’s introverted nature throughout the video. She then closes off this section by once again making a black and white statement “extroverts like to open up about how they feel, introverts don’t.”
….k
She then goes on to show how Sonic doesn’t reveal his true feelings ever, as he makes cartoony facial expressions at Amy aggressively fantasizing about him.
She also shows that Sonic never talks about his Werehog form to Tails…that’s funny….The conversation they have next IN THAT SAME CUTSCENE is Sonic talking to Tails about his new form. Funny how she leaves that part out.
She uses a good example for Sonic and the secret rings where Sonic pretends the flame doesn’t bother him, again, this is not his introverted nature coming out. Always seeing the positives and trying to make everybody around you happy is a very common EXTROVERTED trait. It’s important to note that Sonic also makes very fast friends with Shara, something an introvert would literally struggle to do if their likes didn’t even properly align.
She uses 06 as Sonic not wanting to get personal with Elise, as I said earlier, Sonic is very bad at romance, and those women complimenting him and touching him makes him uneasy. This is because Sonic is awkward around women that like him. let’s not leave out that Sonic has no problem with touching and complimenting people who just treat him as a friend.
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14; Sonic is Awkward.
He’s not. Sonic is the first to speak, first to act, first to cheer somebody up, always knows the right things to say, always knows how to handle a situation, can make friends with ease, can flip the morality of characters, is very assertive in how he chooses to live his life, etc etc.
Sonic knows exactly who he is, how he feels, and what he wants. The confidence is not a facade and literally zero percent of scenes have ever proven his confidence is a second face. The only time I would ever agree that Sonic is awkward is when it comes to romance, his literal only social weakness.
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Fukurou then proudly claims that Sonic fits the description of an introvert…. By not proving that he’s an introvert, nice.
Sonic remains an ambivert.
Ok if you look close at the shattering of the Paradox Presume. Their whore four shards. The red one is in New Yoke City. Green the Jungle one. The blue one is the possession Pirate Dred. So... where's the yellow one?
Probably in the Grim that Nine takes Sonic to, unless they plan on making more dimensions.
Or it's just a rainbow of colors and they didn't really think about that.
@@kotytang
I don't know. We got to see dimensions that focused on (in one way or another) Tails Amy & Knuckles. If we do find the yellow one we might just get a Rouge episode.
@@callumcrane241 New Yoke was pretty much a Rouge and Tails dimension.
In the forest Rouge and Amy both played major roles.
The Pirate was all Knuckles though.
I think we covered everybody, unless they feel the need to really hammer in a character's theme they feel they haven't explored yet.
@@kotytang
Yea that would make sense.
Saying Sonic prime is canon to the game timeline, is like saying the clone wars 2008 is canon to the EU, AKA it isn't
I would like to add that in season 2 he said "to rebuilt green hill" shadow said the entire world, in the games, green hill clearly not THE ENTIRE PLANET (it would be any sonic fan's nightmare lol)
I'm pretty sure that the Clone Wars TV Show is part of the Star Wars Canon.
And I think as far as Shadow or anybody else is concerned their world doesn't exist. But it is entirely possible that only Green Hill was destroyed by the Prism.
@@kotytang clone wars is part of the NEW canon, not the extended universe that Disney made non canon
@@shardsoftime0952 Yeah, but I don't know if it's the case that anybody is arguing for dead canon.
That's like trying to shoe-horn the Sonic Archie comic into the conversation. Once it's dead it's pretty useless to really bring it into discussion outside of itself.
@@kotytang except that when the clone wars was made at the time the EU wasn't dead, still reminds me a lot of what sonic prime and IDW sonic is doing to the sonic canon right now
@@shardsoftime0952 True, the original EU is gone, but Disney has their own EU at this point; Mandalorian, the new trilogy, Boba Fett, their own prequels, the video games, etc. So saying EU when talking about Star Wars would immediately confuse anybody you talk to if your goal is to talk about the now defunct EU...
I don't even think it's the case that anything in the original star wars EU was even canon. Whenever I heard anything about it they all sounded like fan-fiction pieces, and only a handful of things were genuinely accepted or read by anybody.
From what I understand, when it comes to the video games at least, the star wars lore team are extremely on point in depicting accurate moments and timelines, whereas the Sonic Lore Team barely even seem to recognize a moment that happened in one of the video games they're supposed to be following.
Sonic Prime and IDW absolutely are muddying the waters of canon though. Both have moments of pure inconsistency and flat out incorrect lore.
18:18 you used the wrong example to prove rings are not canon the fight with chaos is literally one of the few times rings are actually seen in cutscene before a boss fight.
Incorrect. Those are objects/artifacts from the in-game engine as the cutscene takes place inside the boss-arena. They are not actually supposed to be in the scene.
Just for future reference, since you comment a lot on my videos, and to thank you for it; I purposely use scenes like that to bait people into giving the response you just gave.
It’s low hanging fruit that I plant to see if people like you are thinking critically, or just fishing for flaws in my arguments.
It makes it easy to call you out, because I have a reply pre-prepared.
I think the show's abrupt ending is due to the whole thing about the whole: "We split our Episode Order into 3 Seasons to not pay the animators as much"
It's all one season, but I get what you're saying. It's probably to gauge the audience's reaction to the show as well, could be to guarantee subscriptions to Netflix throughout the year. I don't really follow the business side of things, that's not my expertise, so I don't really comment on it.
I assume the animators pretty much finished Sonic Prime long before they announced part 2, and if somehow there's a second season for the show they'll be brought back on, or cycle new animators.
@@kotytang btw I know it's one season split into 3 lol
Everyone's haunt isn't Greenhill that's why I don't believe prime is canon, but maybe that changes by the end. In that fixing everything changes to the game canon. Tired of them overusing green hill. There's no escape...
I doubt they would just revert to Video Game Canon, I don't even know what that would look like, or how that would even work. Sonic is just going to walk away from this appreciating his friends more, I'm sure.
@@kotytangif that so then prime being "canon" is just PR bull.
Remember, Sega dumbed sonic down for children
Sega should never have given sonic up to america... what a mess.
In Sega of America defense, Sega of Japan successfully managed to mess up with Sonic on their own without SoA involvement
11:05 actually he does remember 06. In generations, the room you can watch scenes again or look at the characters (I forgot if the room has a name has or not) is stated to be a collection of Sonic's memories, and it includes 06
It's stated in the Japanese version I don't remember if it is in the English version
It’s possible that Sonic subconsciously remembers the events of 06. But I believe that the implication at the end of that story was that it’s more like a feeling of Deja Vu.
So the time eater forcing out the events of 06 from the depths of Sonic’s memories is likely, although what all Sonic remembers from the game is questionable.
While I did enjoy what Prime and Frontiers had to offer, trying to make *all* Sonic games cannon is a *big* mistake! Knuckles explained that he wanted to be more free, rather than having to guard the Master Emerald all the time, but who was guarding the Master Emerald during the Riders trilogy? Who was guarding it in Lost World, and where the heck was it in Forces?!
I think they should just say "All the games are 50% cannon to the story we're writing". That way they can keep Dark Gaia, the Phantom Ruby, and other important things cannon, without creating inconsistencies.
Creating anything other than 100% canon will create inconsistencies, that's not really how canon works.
What you're actually wanting is for the stories to be episodic and have no relation to each other, similar to the Mario series, where it's more about what's happening in the game rather than what everybody's already been through.
I'm a long-time fan of the Sonic games, having played them since the Genesis era. However, when it comes to the cartoons, I've always preferred the lighter, more comedy-based ones (Adventures and Boom) over the darker, more action-based ones (SatAM, Underground, X, and Prime). I've seen the first eight episodes of Prime on Netflix and I'm mainly mixed on the series. I do like the show's concept of Sonic visiting different dimensions and meeting different versions of his friends. Thus far, he's visited a dystopian city ruled by Eggman's relatives, a jungle, and a pirate ship on the open seas. I also like the references to the games, namely the password to Tails' workshop being 1992 (a reference to the release date of Sonic the Hedgehog 2), and Big the Cat being referred to as "Citizen 1998" (a reference to the Japanese release date of Sonic Adventure). Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the series' dramatic tone, particularly in episodes where Sonic visits New Yoke City. I get that Prime was going for a more SatAM vibe, since that show was the first Sonic cartoon to be renewed for a second season, but Underground tried it and it didn't work. Also, the ending to the first season finale, "There's No 'Arrgh' in Team" left a bad taste in my mouth, as Sonic had met Shadow in the Limbo Dimension, who told him that their world is in danger thanks to him, setting up a cliffhanger for the next season. To my knowledge, every Sonic cartoon up to Prime has ended on an unresolved cliffhanger. A few of them, such as SatAM, X, and Boom did get renewed for a second season, but even those teased new seasons that never came to be due to circumstances beyond their control. For SatAM, it was because Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers was beating it in the ratings, and for Boom, it was because Christina Miller, the president of Cartoon Network at the time, had turned the channel into a dumping ground for Toddler Titans reruns. I know that Sega has officially confirmed that Prime will be renewed for a second season, and I do want to be optimistic about Prime being the first Sonic cartoon to break the chain and end on a proper resolution, but I doubt that's going to happen.
Sonic Prime wasn’t green lit for a season 2, they just said that part 2 is coming later this year. It’s also a Netflix series, so they have a 24 episode contract that they have to complete regardless. This is part 1 of 3, it’s all one season.
I don’t agree that Sonic Prime has a dramatic tone at all, it’s way too goofy to be considered dramatic.
Good video, sonic frontiers does not have terrible writing tho and if you read his work with Archie Ian Flynn is a phenomenal writer
I disagree, Frontiers is in fact terribly written, and calling Ian Flynn a phenomenal writer is a MASSIVE exaggeration. Maybe if he was the only writer you’ve ever seen then sure.
I’ve made three videos that discuss both topics.
I’m also doing an ongoing series that goes over the IDW series from start to finish, so you can watch me review Ian's writing decisions in real time.
If you want to have a discussion about the writing in Frontiers, my next comment will link three of my own videos that go over Frontiers, and Ian Flynn's writing. Feel free to add your comments to the videos of either the original game's story, or the update's
This is my review of Sonic Frontiers’ writing.
ruclips.net/video/7WpnaLpBqZ8/видео.htmlsi=T3mIMvz5SA2oQL1q
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This is my review of the DLC Final Horizon for Frontiers
ruclips.net/video/99EEmVgYjrM/видео.htmlsi=mLOlca6WkUoCfUE8
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This includes my current stance on Ian Flynn’s writing (this will take you directly to the timestamp.)
ruclips.net/video/QyGYFtS2qjg/видео.htmlsi=-vFkL3cNjiH8C8FB&t=1642
@@kotytang I think alot of your criticisms of Ian's writing for IDW comics come down to him being under pressure from sega to create an established canon where IDW is apart of the video games, which to be honest I disagree with. I understand things such as the deadly six or the constant lore references are slightly annoying though. I also should say I have not read IDW so it's entirely possibly Ian has just fallen off recently, but if you still haven't read any archie as you said, I recommend reading the house of cards or eggman empire sagas. I've reread them many times and Ian Flynn was masterful in capturing a good sonic story- He had a serious enough plotline to really be followed and interested in without it becoming overly edgy or self serious, he always had fun with it. His characterization felt balanced and real, no character was poorly handled or annoying and the interactions felt real. I recommend watching Lowarts videos covering archie sonic. He delves into how Ian Flynn handled the characters and plotlines well.
@hibernian797 I’ll eventually cover Archie myself and we’ll see if it’s that good.
As for your comments about Ian being under pressure by SEGA- no, that is not how writing, nor mandates work. If a writer can’t work in the confines of what a company’s characters can or can’t do, then they should not be a writer for that company. If it’s so hard to stay on brand while writing, then I question the ability you have within your own character’s staying on brand with themselves. Using SEGA mandates as a restriction is just entirely false and shows a lack of understanding on writing itself.
Sega themselves would also adhere to these mandates when writing their own stories, and had been from 98-2009 before they started outsourcing for writers and rebranding.
Sonic is like that because hes gonna have an arc in this show, i do wish they could handle it a little better though cause sonic is annoying sometimes
I’m aware of what they’re doing. Having an arc in the show that completely goes against who the character already is makes absolutely 0 sense. You don’t change a character’s personality to fit your narrative.
@@kotytang apparently the Arc is about sonic learning about teamwork??? But that doesn’t work at all, because sonic has learnt about teamwork in past games which shows how bad this idea is even forces doesn’t discard, sonics, maturity and teamwork this show straight up ignores that and makes sonic out to be a incompetent piece of shit honestly, I know it sounds random, but personally the only way I see prime working is if this Took place in the mania, timeline and prime sonic is supposed to be classic sonic from forces for one that would make a little sense since that’s an alternate timeline so things are going to have to be different. Therefore I love adventures are going to be different for both sonics. And two if it was the case that would make it A little better since it would be a callback to watch sonic says the classic sonic at the end of generations
12:53 God I HATE it when he's depicted as all "wise beyond his years", giving life advice and shit.
? What lol
@@kotytang Yknow, the thing I timestamped? Him changing the outlook of others who's just met him. I hate it.
@@EGV88 Why is that
@@kotytang It makes his relationships hierarchal, placing him above the others in terms of who knows best. And it's just not believable having one person being the all-knowing one, especially someone that young.
@EGLchan
I strongly disagree.
I don’t think it puts him above others or implies that he knows best. Just because you’re wise doesn’t mean you’re correct. It’s his way of looking at life that makes him wise.
Sonic doesn’t have the answers for a ton of things, but his philosophy geared toward making the best out of life and striving for peace and freedom is what makes him so wise. He doesn’t get held down by many of the finer details. This doesn’t mean that he’s extremely smart and has the answer to everything though.
There are actually loads of people like this, people who have a natural leadership and attractive personalities. There’s always one person out of a group of friends that’s seen as sort of the “main friend” and Sonic is that. To be a celebrity that’s a major personality trait you almost require.