Also Frisk looks like and possibly reminds Asgore of Chara, the human he sheltered and friend of his son, Asriel; which further explains why Asgore's intent to harm was lower with Frisk than it was with Clover
However, Frisk was also holding back. When they actually did want to fight, they can deal like 1/5 of Asgore’s Hp in a single strike (during the last attack before Asgore’s monologue about his son dying and stuff). Compare this to Level 19 and level 20 Clover. The former can one shot (actually, utterly obliterate) Axis, who can kill a genocidal human, while the latter one shotted (actually, utterly obliterated) Full Power Asgore. Flowey also believes that Clover surpassed Asgore when they were level 12. It’s likely that Frisk just has more determination, hence he overwrote Flowey’s control over the timeline. Asgore is also more powerful than Flowey (bare minimum level 1 Flowey, as Flowey stated that he can never get past Asgore), so being the most determined =/= the most powerful.
@@ultimate_capper3643The only reason frisk does 1/5 of asgores hp near the end is due to the boss monster soul trait of losing defense as your health gets lower
Also, during Undyne’s date in Undertale she says that it took a long time for her to even get a single hit on Asgore when training, implying that he may have also been able to dodge similar to how Sans does in Genocide
It would probably be a more advanced version if anything. We can only slash once per turn whereas undyne can release a flurry of attacks at once and asgore dodged all of undynes attacks except 1.
@@lighstary7235also didn't he never EVER attack back? That would mean that he beat undyne through *exhaustion*, this would mean, that at the VERY least he's a *far* better dodger than sans.
I would say he could definitely dodge but definitely not the same amount as sans since sans has 1 hp so he is more dependent on dodging but yeah if asgore was serious during his fight I would say his fight definitely would have been as hard as sans and undyne if not harder
true, the ability to save comes from determination. clover isnt able to overwrite flowey, but frisk can. this however changes when flowey has the 6 souls, because the other 6 souls combined have more determination than frisk
In ball game if you get a red flag it will say all the attributes of the other flags you can get in the minigame. Not to mention that Frisk can also turn into other souls in the battle so frisks soul is as powerful as 6 souls
@@hahanamegobrr5992 flowey can save without the 6 human souls, so omegaa flowey actually has the estimate determination of 6 and a half. half comes from how he was injected with determination, but still has a monster soul.
Also because I think Clover is just genuinely weaker than Frisk. Needing to commit mass genocide just to outpowrr Flowey in determination whilst Frisk outpowered Flowey the moment they fell down the underground
fun fact: clover did have a power to save themselves, its literally when flowey appeared clover stopped having save option likely due to flowey having more determination in em
Frisk objective stronger as it took lv 20 and feeling determined for clover to suppress flowey while frisk did that just by existing without feeling determined
That’s bc frisk's soul's thing is determination so they immediately have more strength over saves and stuff than flowey whereas clover = justice not determination.
Frisk is the strongest human in the Undertale world who can destroy the world, if he wishes so . The reason why Frisk survives attacks which are far too much for him , is because Frisk can manipulate the demage taken thanks to the determination of the player . As Chara explained, she is the evil feeling of the player. She is the powerful force giving Frisk the capability to break through the broken high DEF of monster, he wasn't capable of hurting, back in the genocide run . In reality if the player wasn't there to feel said feelings and intentions , Frisk wouldn't stand a chance.
*Cute little cowboy guy who spared almost everyone but made one mistake and Martlet is pleading his case* Asgore: “Stupid, i’m not even gonna let you get the chance.” *Someone who either spared everyone or killed everyone besides 1 Froggit* Asgore: “Bro I can be like your dada!”
Not that dumb as clover at that level took control of the save files while frisk was able to do that the moment they landed but I don't think he could win as frisk was able to pull their soul back together in a battle against a god
imo fighting Lv 20 Clover would be a dead end, that would be like sparing sans. No matter how many times frisk resets it'll be the same undodgeable instant death attack, they'll realize that they need to find another way to get through Clover than fighting head on.
There's also the possibility of Clover's friends telling Asgore about Clover's sacrifice. It would've made him that much more reluctant when fighting Frisk.
Asgore is quite someone in Undertale's lore, ngl. I like him quite a bit! I agree with you, Snoot. He wants to give hope to the monsters, so he has no choice but to fight Clover in Yellow garoEEP 🤗💗👌🏽🐉
Asgore is an underrated character He angrily and stupidly made a promise to break the barrier and declare war on all humans after a group of them had killed his child, and now he feels that it's too late to go back on those words, as that promise is the only thing currently keeping hope in the Underground However, Asgore later realizes his mistake, and has to choose between going through with his promise, and making peace with humans Asgore doesn't want to break the barrier, but he already said that he would to his entire kingdom, which are words he couldn't just go back on so easily Asgore is what happens when someone makes one dumb promise that they feel they have to live up to for the people that look up to them The entire story is him stalling, hoping no more humans fall into the Underground, because the more that do fall down, the closer he gets to a goal he doesn't want
I see it as Asgore finally calming down from Asriel's death and second guessing himself, so his attacks in Yellow are more merciless than in Base Undertale. Or maybe he instantly destroyed all of Clover's options, so that it'll never be their turn, but only destroyed Frisk's Mercy button to give them a fighting chance/prevent them from running away.
I mean, if SOMEHOW Clover actually managed to defeat Asgore, that would mean Flowey would get the souls even early that when Frisk fall, and that would be a really, really, REALLY, complicated situation
this btw is probably the main reason toriel hates asgore the fact that he took the single most cowardly option deciding to slay children for the sake of hope but NEVER wanting to go through with it. had asgore actually wanted to free the underground he would have taken the first human soul he got murdered six adults and then destroyed the barier
I wish someone would make Undertale cyan, which is the story of the second fallen human, maybe in the future we will get the story of all the humans, idk mate XD
Clover pulling out their gun on Asgore is probably just a self defense/fight or flight response. He's probably not focused on hurting/killing Asgore, just trying to survive
Frisk is also under the control of the player, unlike Clover. The player is not canon to Undertale yellow, but canon in Undertale, meaning that its not really Frisk choice to fight or not asgore when the fight starts.
@@Esburger Undertale Localization Book explains that all Frisk managed to do on his journey was mostly thanks to the players' actions regardless if they do good or evil.
The player is not canon in Undertale at all. Sans when talking about the anomaly was referring to either Frisk or Flowey, Frisk is the one who chose to commit genocide which made Chara the embodiment of Frisk's stats because they were cooperating with Frisk and Flowey tells Chara to let Frisk live their life because Chara stuck to Frisk ever since Frisk landed on Chara's grave which awakened Chara due to their overwhelming determination that overwrote Flowey's. No one treats the player the same way games like One Shot and OFF do.
@@maila319I'd say the player is canon in Undertale to an extent. The main reason is the Chara dialogue at the end of the genocide route. They weren't talking to Frisk, but to "you", the player specifically. I do t Believe Chara knows about the "player" quite literally, but knows there's an external being driving all of this. But to all other characters concerned, they don't know about the player. Flowey at the end of the pacifist route thinks we are Chara, which is quite fitting since Chara is meant to be the character representation of the player in Undertale to an extent. Does it matter if the player is canon or not? Probably no. The only time it might matters is at the end of the geno route
While many of the comments about Asgore holding back against Frisk are correct,there also is another minor detail. Frisk has a red SOUL. Clover has a yellow SOUL (justice) It is HEAVILY implied by undertale that the red SOUL represents YOU,the player: Frisk is fueled by determination that isn’t even theirs. Yours. The flag game represents the red soul color as “you” Flowey says “let frisk be happy” Chara says “with YOUR guidance,I realized the purpose of my reincarnation,power.” Add that to the fact undertale is very meta to begin with. Flowey calls everything a game. Napstablook knows he has HP. Asgore destroys your button. Sans knows you take turns. Etc Clover doesn’t have a red soul,and by extent,no player. They have no one to power them along.
The reason that Frisk gets to kill Asgore and cross the barrier even after letting Asgore’s soul shatter, is because they have enough DT on their own, because for Frisk, they have Chara sort of like, following them around. And by the end of the game, if it’s pacifist, Frisk gets full control over their body. If it’s genocide, Chara gets full control over their body, and is reawakened from death. But we, the player also combine our determination with Frisk and Chara’s which makes them have the ability to save/load as all of their combined DT allows them to be stronger than Flowey’s. Clover and the player’s souls were stronger together, but it isn’t enough to make them save/load. Flowey still has control over everything, and it’s only during the genocide run that Flowey’s DT is lower than Clover’s and the players. But even then, they still needed a monster soul to get past the barrier. I feel like the same cycle will happen with each human. Like, Frisk/Chara’s whole deal is, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because I want to!” Then Clovers is, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster for the sake of retribution!” The green soul would probably be, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster to end all of their misery!” The purple soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster so I can gather enough information to escape the underground!” The blue soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because it’s what my heart is telling me what’s right!” The orange soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because nothing is impossible!” The cyan soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because it’s going to be inevitable once they come!”
I feel like frisk was just the strongest human that fell underground as clover needed lv 20 to be able to manipulate the timeline while frisk only needed lv 1
Asgore really just didnt wanna continue doing what he was doing. Like they said, all he needed was one human soul to destroy the barrier. But he was so angry after both his sons past he let his people remained trapped down there longer than they needed to. You can really feel those emotions when you fight him in Undertale neutral.
Keep in mind Frisk was the last the last soul needed to break the barrier. Once the barrier is broken, the war with humanity would commence and Asgore was lowkey not wanting to go through with it. By the time he met Frisk, his anger has subsided and that drive was gone. He was only doing this because he made the declaration and didn’t want to break the hope of his people. So maybe his fight him playing with either him losing/dying and Frisk being free so the war wouldn’t commence or him winning and freeing his people
I'm holding out for an ACTUAL pacifist version where I can just challenge all the 'monsters' to a bake-off!😋 Toriel would be the super tough final boss, the quests would be finding/obtaining ingredients, and everybody would get to stay alive!😊 (which color was supposed to be a chef, green?)
My opinion is that the player has influence over Frisk, but the fangame doesn't give you "true" control over Clover. The player's influence is the only reason Frisk can beat Asgore. But it's a fangame, so they couldn't change the canon really.
It’s confirmed that he only held back on the last kill becuase killing clover changed something in asgore and he felt more guilty about the death of all the children which is why his attacks do 1/2 damage they should. Normally he has 160 ATK 160 DEF and that’s how he killed clover and the others. He was so close to war he didn’t want and he wanted an easy way out which is why he goaded frisk into killing him (by destroying mercy and going easy on you)
Determination. In reality Asgore would be a very tough boss if you couldn't save/load and a single mistake meant death. Also as you said... he was holding back A LOT when facing ,,Frisk"
The human before Clover attacked Dalv so they probably attacked other monsters. After the last human attacked people Asgore was less willing to spare humans but since Clover gives up there soul peacefully in the canon ending, he would become more willing to spare humans again.
My understanding is that Clover is simply less powerful/determined than Frisk. Clover can't overwrite Flowey's powers until level 20, while Frisk could do it right from the start. In turn, Clover never actually defeats Flowey in the neutral route, while Frisk does, despite Flowey being MORE powerful when fighting Frisk. Plus, Genocide Clover doesn't one-shot bosses, while Genocide Frisk does.
Clover reaching level 20 and then overpowering flowey is a coincidence, the real reason is at that point they simply became that determined to accomplish their goal.
I feel like Clover is just weaker than Frisk for most part, at least during a Pacifist Playthrough, seeing as Frisk was able to take control over the Save File by merely existing. But once they get to Level 20, I'd say they're on par with a Genocide Frisk. Seeing as even though Asgore had more will to fight Genocide Clover, which would boost his defenses seeing as a Monster's defense is tied to their willingness to fight and harm someone, compared to his more relaxed mindset when Frisk one shot him (which would lowered his defenses cause he wasn't prepared to battle). And despite Asgore's willingness to fight, Clover was able to One Shot him
Let's not forget also that clover can't reset the entire time it's flowey who has the ability to reset and during our omega flowey fight we don't actually beat flowey he just got bored of us and once he got bored he stopped helping us after asgore.
Its also canon that all the other souls used to be able to save. As you fight asgore if you died to him once and talked to him he would nod solemnly as though he understood and already had that happen to him
Simple, they didn't want to program full Asgore's fight and later Flowey with 5 souls It's doesn't matter who is fighting them, beceuase in the end we are doing it so it doesn't matter which vessel si fighting. I guarentee you if they programmed the route to the end, people would have passed it even if it would be on 1hp.
I much prefer the idea that that's just the sheer difference between regular souls, and the determination soul. But hey, maybe that's just my headcannon
this actually makes so much sense. it perfectly applies to Sans as well. in genocide, he has no cruel intentions, simply the desire to avenge those he cares about and to put you in your place, which is why he does 1 damage, but also has KR. he’s always had good intentions, but wants your actions to sting you badly, for you to feel the wrath you brought upon monsterkind so you would reset and restore everything to its base state.
i also like to imagine that asgore falters in his fight with frisk because he knows that monsters strolling out of the barrier with the souls of seven human children isn’t going to be a good look and his people will more then likely be thrown right back where they came from.
also, we already know clover SUCKS at undertale and staying alive, the whole reason undertale yellow even happens in the first place is because flowey was sick of them always dying and so he tried to send them somewhere else to maybe finally get to asgore, but flowey does eventually realise that clover is destined to always die as well and so at some point the world continues on without clover and flowey waits for the final human to fall
and also we already know that frisk looks suspiciously a lot like chara which flowey/asriel mention and asgore and toriel are most definitely thinking the same thing, like a part of them is killing chara all over again but at the same time also just another child just like their own
That`s not the case. In flowey memories we can hear sound of Sans attack. I don`t think that 1 lvl human can outwin final boss encounter just after the ruins
It’s also worth noting that Clover doesn’t have nearly the same level of determination as Frisk does. Flowey helps Clover save because his determination is greater than theirs. Frisk can save over Flowey’s files which means they have more determination than him, therefore Frisk’s determination is more than Clover’s. Determination levels: Clover < Flowey < Frisk Determination is also a factor in attack and defense. Frisk was able to continuously survive Asriel’s attacks because they were determined to save EVERYONE. This results in two things: 1) Whenever Frisk “dies”, their heart refuses, and they respawn 2) When Asriel attacks with all of his magic, Frisk stays determined to keep living and reach out to save him Clover notably does survive a barrage of attacks from Yellow’s Pacifist final boss, but their heart is not capable of “refusing” like Frisk’s can (both survive attacks that force their HP to near 0, but neither die from their respective attacker’s onslaught). I personally believe that Clover was fully determined to deliver justice to the final boss and got a small boost in determination from that. But justice can often be skewed, and the power of love and friendship (Frisk) is far greater a boost in terms of determination than revenge or “duty”. So yeah. That’s why Frisk is “stronger” than Clover. Frisk’s determination simply comes from a different place than Clover’s, which exemplifies their higher level of determination comparatively
Clover is also just weaker in general and doesn’t have the level of determination that Frisk has, all the enemies Clover fights have weaker stats than the enemies Frisk fights
flowey was the one brining back Clover so he wanted 6 souls to absorb thus he waited till the last to obtain those souls so he brings you back so you get to asgore but than just says nah and screws you over
I WISH that the green soul defeats Asgore and lends his hand to help him up and forgive him (because the green soul is kindness) and Asgore just kills him
I like how you don’t see the other like special area of the underground because it’s basing it on genocide so basically clover killed them all but you can still have asgore
a better example would be the fact that Asgore is still determined to fight in the war, and as such, shows no mercy or remorse to Clover and all the children before them, but with Frisk, he loses that determination due to time. he still removed mercy, yes, but it's clear he doesn't have the same violent urge or determination he had for the prior souls
There’s one thing that need to be reminded that the determination soul is way stronger than others. Firstly, when Frisk fell to the underground, they can overwrite Flowey’s save but in Clover’s case, they can’t. Secondly, When Asriel absorbs Chara’s soul(determination soul), he becomes Asriel Dreemurr(God of Hyperdeath) and he needs to absorb the 6 human soul and other monsters soul to become God of Hyperdeath. That means that the determination soul is way stronger
Frisk also is possessed by chara whether you play pacifist or genocide, thus giving enough determination to save on your own. And thus making frisk more powerful. (This is also why clover becomes powerful enough on genocide, as he gains determination fueled by revenge, but also having a higher LV and XP helps)
I was sure that it was confirmed that asgore is reminded that frisk looks like chara if you befriend everybody but dont go into the true lab and instead proceed onto fighting asgore he will commit suicide but one of his lines state "when i look at you im reminded of thr first human that fell" which would be chara i think that combined with frisk's immense determination and the fact that he is so close to a war against the humans not to mention that in clover's case asgore doesn't give him a chance to attack possibly because clover id the 2nd to last soul and clover doesnt look like chara nor do they have as much determination as frisk. I also dont think the humans had the ability to save themselves either since when flowey says that frisk's determination overpowers his own he seems surprised as if it hasnt happened before although i could be wrong since asgore only nods when you say he has killed you before but i believe thats just because of the sort of deja vu that the monsters get when you reset like when toriel guesses your pie preference if you reset so maybe asgore comes to that conclusion naturally or maybe he just doesnt believe you.
I feel like despite the fact Clover can't remember RESETs, but since they were exposed to Flowey's determination, I feel like they could see know about other runs.
I'd imagine, were there fangames stretching all the way back to Cyan (first human to fall down after Chara died), Asgore would be progressively harder in each one as we get closer to the event that fueled his anger.
This is also paires with the fact that Frisk has a direct control over saves and loads meanwhile Clover only does in geno Its not that Clover is weaker than Frisk neccesarily but rather that he had much harsher conditions against a Asgore which was still determined to fight and not having any way to save themselves
actually yeah since flowey wanted this clover would have to beat asgore in one go which for the sake of the run is impossible i think it would be interesting if you could get a neutral ending variant if you were able to kill asgore but its INSANELY difficult.
Frisk is also... uh, a lot more powerful than Clover. Clover wasn't really determined at all by the time he got to Asgore. Unless you did a vengeance run, where he just beams Asgore to death. Frisk, on the other hand, although hesitant, was still ready to fight. It also helped that being the last soul made Asgore more hesitant to kill them, but this hesitation goes both ways. On the other hand UTY is a fangame so you can't expect it to be a hundred percent accurate.
Its because Asgore has no desire to shatter the barrier anymore by the time Frisk arrives. They have no desire to reignite the war between monsters and humans. If Toriel and Asgore wanted to kill you, you'd be dead.
I feel like it makes sense because clover would focus more on his gun then defense and armor so. He would be weaker as because of frisk only having a knife she has to focus on her attack and defense more. Just to get through. Plus if she dies she can all ways come back. It kind of the same with clover just something different
For me Asgore is the strongest monster in undertale (aside from gods and undyne the undying), being capable of beating every iteration of the player and frisk, but failing due to him holding back or being taken by surprise. Sans should have callee Asgor for help instead of trying to do everything alone.
It could be in Undertale Yellow Asgore doesn't feel bad for the pain he's caused. It's not until Undertale Asgore actually feels sorry for what he's done, sure his intentions were pure at first wanting to set the monsters free as time went on he regrets what he was doing
Posiblemente Asgore puede inhabilitar más botones con su tridente, con Frisk solo inhabilitó piedad, con Clover le dijo "en términos de esperanza, ya no tienes esperanza" Lo que me pregunto es que tan fuerte es Clover nivel 20, viendo que eso le otorgo el poder de cargar la partida sin necesitar determinación (o al menos no tanta como Frisk)
this is why I like the genocide ending because Asgore absolutely had it coming for prolonging this war and freeing everyone for so long should have just done it with 1 soul bro and look what happened because you waited for so long
If clover killed asgore in flawed pacifist (if flowey revived them for example) then it would be true justice cus its one certain monster that killed humans (we don't know that axis killed integrity) not whole race though flowey probably would consume souls but tbh i think we wouldve fight off or just let the guy be cus we don't need souls( i mean kids are dead so why wouldve we need their souls?)
I will point out that asgore doesn't have 80ATK and 80DEF, because flavor text is just that, flavor text. Functionally he has different stats. Look at Mettaton NEO for what I mean, he has 90ATk and 9 DEF in his flavor text, and then in the games code its actually -10,000 or less (i forgot the nunber)
It’s still kinda stupid there isn’t even a chance because I’m fine if it’s stupidly hard and difficult and gets you a worse ending but I prefer an almost impossible battle that encourages you to give up after every attempt giving you the normal ending once you do so but forcing you to loose makes the entire game feel pointless if in the end unless you want to do a genocide run your chooses don’t matter because you simply don’t get to choose in that fight
Also Frisk looks like and possibly reminds Asgore of Chara, the human he sheltered and friend of his son, Asriel; which further explains why Asgore's intent to harm was lower with Frisk than it was with Clover
Pacifist is the best way to play In any undertale
And also frisk has more determination not needing flowey to save but being able to do so alone
Asgores stats can drop lower as well if you save and eat the pie toriel gave you
I thought that the Dreemurs adopted Chara as their kid. Which is probably why he didn't do nearly as much damage.
Yea I feel Asgore could've easily one shotted Pacifist Frisk if he wanted to.
Asgore was fighting seriously against clover, but he was basically committing suicide with extra steps against frisk
However, Frisk was also holding back. When they actually did want to fight, they can deal like 1/5 of Asgore’s Hp in a single strike (during the last attack before Asgore’s monologue about his son dying and stuff).
Compare this to Level 19 and level 20 Clover. The former can one shot (actually, utterly obliterate) Axis, who can kill a genocidal human, while the latter one shotted (actually, utterly obliterated) Full Power Asgore. Flowey also believes that Clover surpassed Asgore when they were level 12.
It’s likely that Frisk just has more determination, hence he overwrote Flowey’s control over the timeline. Asgore is also more powerful than Flowey (bare minimum level 1 Flowey, as Flowey stated that he can never get past Asgore), so being the most determined =/= the most powerful.
@@ultimate_capper3643The only reason frisk does 1/5 of asgores hp near the end is due to the boss monster soul trait of losing defense as your health gets lower
@@ultimate_capper3643the reason you kill him in one big hit is cause his guard is lowered
I forgot that frisk slashed first but the point stands, flowey is the strongest in the underground maybe besides sans
@@NovaAeternusundyne crying rn
Also, during Undyne’s date in Undertale she says that it took a long time for her to even get a single hit on Asgore when training, implying that he may have also been able to dodge similar to how Sans does in Genocide
It would probably be a more advanced version if anything. We can only slash once per turn whereas undyne can release a flurry of attacks at once and asgore dodged all of undynes attacks except 1.
@@lighstary7235also didn't he never EVER attack back? That would mean that he beat undyne through *exhaustion*, this would mean, that at the VERY least he's a *far* better dodger than sans.
I would say he could definitely dodge but definitely not the same amount as sans since sans has 1 hp so he is more dependent on dodging but yeah if asgore was serious during his fight I would say his fight definitely would have been as hard as sans and undyne if not harder
@@superbaker1643 maybe not undyne the undying
@@TrueCreepaster I was talking as his fight being as hard as sans or undyne the undying I didn't mean as hard as both fights combined
This fan game is so damn good people treat it like the lore
Dang had no idea it was a fan game
That's a big parte of the appeal for me, it's Made to be as cohesive as posible with the original game
I feel it's canon fangame, if it's fanon it doesn't even make sense
frisk is generally just stronger due to having a lot more determination from the start
true, the ability to save comes from determination. clover isnt able to overwrite flowey, but frisk can. this however changes when flowey has the 6 souls, because the other 6 souls combined have more determination than frisk
In ball game if you get a red flag it will say all the attributes of the other flags you can get in the minigame. Not to mention that Frisk can also turn into other souls in the battle so frisks soul is as powerful as 6 souls
@@hahanamegobrr5992 flowey can save without the 6 human souls, so omegaa flowey actually has the estimate determination of 6 and a half. half comes from how he was injected with determination, but still has a monster soul.
@@hahanamegobrr5992all souls could probably change colour, frisk never actually changes themselves.
@@HazelTanukiall humans probably have the same amount of determination though.
Also because I think Clover is just genuinely weaker than Frisk. Needing to commit mass genocide just to outpowrr Flowey in determination whilst Frisk outpowered Flowey the moment they fell down the underground
fun fact: clover did have a power to save themselves, its literally when flowey appeared clover stopped having save option likely due to flowey having more determination in em
@@Thispersonisrealtrur.
Flowey needed the other souls to overpower Frisk in both Neutral and Pacifist run.
Clover is hesitant, not willing to fight, on top of being weaker than Frisk.
@@Hiveatel Hesitant and not willing to fight? say that to Axis and Starlo in the genocide run
Frisk objective stronger as it took lv 20 and feeling determined for clover to suppress flowey while frisk did that just by existing without feeling determined
but gun
That’s bc frisk's soul's thing is determination so they immediately have more strength over saves and stuff than flowey whereas clover = justice not determination.
@@Carb_devourer frisk has the determination of the gamer behind the screen to back them up
@@Sr_Illuminatipeople looking for a escape through video games:
Frisk is the strongest human in the Undertale world who can destroy the world, if he wishes so . The reason why Frisk survives attacks which are far too much for him , is because Frisk can manipulate the demage taken thanks to the determination of the player . As Chara explained, she is the evil feeling of the player. She is the powerful force giving Frisk the capability to break through the broken high DEF of monster, he wasn't capable of hurting, back in the genocide run . In reality if the player wasn't there to feel said feelings and intentions , Frisk wouldn't stand a chance.
*Cute little cowboy guy who spared almost everyone but made one mistake and Martlet is pleading his case*
Asgore: “Stupid, i’m not even gonna let you get the chance.”
*Someone who either spared everyone or killed everyone besides 1 Froggit*
Asgore: “Bro I can be like your dada!”
Ngl i always felt like Lv 19 Clover be on par with Lv 1 Frisk. But that's just stupid.
Not that stupid.
Not that dumb as clover at that level took control of the save files while frisk was able to do that the moment they landed but I don't think he could win as frisk was able to pull their soul back together in a battle against a god
"Umh actually, clover levels up to LVL. 20 in genocide run🤓🤓🤓"
@@FloppaGrasoso ⛈️⛈️⛈️
imo fighting Lv 20 Clover would be a dead end, that would be like sparing sans. No matter how many times frisk resets it'll be the same undodgeable instant death attack, they'll realize that they need to find another way to get through Clover than fighting head on.
There's also the possibility of Clover's friends telling Asgore about Clover's sacrifice. It would've made him that much more reluctant when fighting Frisk.
Asgore is quite someone in Undertale's lore, ngl. I like him quite a bit!
I agree with you, Snoot. He wants to give hope to the monsters, so he has no choice but to fight Clover in Yellow garoEEP 🤗💗👌🏽🐉
Yeah, it's sad but true
Asgore is an underrated character
He angrily and stupidly made a promise to break the barrier and declare war on all humans after a group of them had killed his child, and now he feels that it's too late to go back on those words, as that promise is the only thing currently keeping hope in the Underground
However, Asgore later realizes his mistake, and has to choose between going through with his promise, and making peace with humans
Asgore doesn't want to break the barrier, but he already said that he would to his entire kingdom, which are words he couldn't just go back on so easily
Asgore is what happens when someone makes one dumb promise that they feel they have to live up to for the people that look up to them
The entire story is him stalling, hoping no more humans fall into the Underground, because the more that do fall down, the closer he gets to a goal he doesn't want
well said
He tries to prevent his own success LMFAO
@@narrativeless404 the last time they fought humans most got wipe out
And it was with medieval humans, imagine humans armed to the teeth
I see it as Asgore finally calming down from Asriel's death and second guessing himself, so his attacks in Yellow are more merciless than in Base Undertale. Or maybe he instantly destroyed all of Clover's options, so that it'll never be their turn, but only destroyed Frisk's Mercy button to give them a fighting chance/prevent them from running away.
I mean, if SOMEHOW Clover actually managed to defeat Asgore, that would mean Flowey would get the souls even early that when Frisk fall, and that would be a really, really, REALLY, complicated situation
Flowe would take over everything. Even if clover resists he can just take the other two from the surface lol
Flowe would take over everything. Even if clover resists he can just take the other two from the surface lol
this btw is probably the main reason toriel hates asgore the fact that he took the single most cowardly option deciding to slay children for the sake of hope but NEVER wanting to go through with it. had asgore actually wanted to free the underground he would have taken the first human soul he got murdered six adults and then destroyed the barier
If he kills humans in the surface, then the war continues.
Toriel getting mad at that is stupid. DID YOU FORGET WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR SON?
@@damlgmastam8902it was stated asriel could have destroyed all those humans but chose not to
asgore in undertale is basically a step to jump from a bridge because of guilt. The first human after chara was destroyed in seconds by asgore
They could Save and Load too, so it probably was far from a "few seconds"
@@narrativeless404 I mean from asgore perspective the fight lasted a few second
@@narrativeless404 how they could save? I thought Flowey got the most determination
Clover's friends seeing Asgore and Frisk outside the barrier: 😐
I wish someone would make Undertale cyan, which is the story of the second fallen human, maybe in the future we will get the story of all the humans, idk mate XD
Someone is already making a undertale cyan game
@@markjuhos3478 ok
Well, we have a comic at least.
@@markjuhos3478Well it's more of a alternative universe because there is a lot of things that conflict with canon.
Clover pulling out their gun on Asgore is probably just a self defense/fight or flight response. He's probably not focused on hurting/killing Asgore, just trying to survive
A serious asgore fight would definitely be harder than sans
Strongest Clover vs Weakest Frisk.
Weakest Frisk ofc
It's the DETERMINATION that makes Frisk strong
Im think clover win because is level 20 and absorb asgore soul
The reason Clover had no option to fight back is because canonically, the yellow soul was taken.
Frisk is also under the control of the player, unlike Clover.
The player is not canon to Undertale yellow, but canon in Undertale, meaning that its not really Frisk choice to fight or not asgore when the fight starts.
is there anything in undertale that proves the player is controlling frisk? i don't think the player is 'controlling' frisk unlike in deltarune
Player isn't a canon character to undertale. Just 4th wall breaks
@@Esburger Undertale Localization Book explains that all Frisk managed to do on his journey was mostly thanks to the players' actions regardless if they do good or evil.
The player is not canon in Undertale at all. Sans when talking about the anomaly was referring to either Frisk or Flowey, Frisk is the one who chose to commit genocide which made Chara the embodiment of Frisk's stats because they were cooperating with Frisk and Flowey tells Chara to let Frisk live their life because Chara stuck to Frisk ever since Frisk landed on Chara's grave which awakened Chara due to their overwhelming determination that overwrote Flowey's. No one treats the player the same way games like One Shot and OFF do.
@@maila319I'd say the player is canon in Undertale to an extent. The main reason is the Chara dialogue at the end of the genocide route. They weren't talking to Frisk, but to "you", the player specifically. I do t Believe Chara knows about the "player" quite literally, but knows there's an external being driving all of this. But to all other characters concerned, they don't know about the player. Flowey at the end of the pacifist route thinks we are Chara, which is quite fitting since Chara is meant to be the character representation of the player in Undertale to an extent. Does it matter if the player is canon or not? Probably no. The only time it might matters is at the end of the geno route
Nice video Garo I just love your content keep up the good work.😁👍
Thank you so so much
@@GaroShadowscale your welcome 😁
While many of the comments about Asgore holding back against Frisk are correct,there also is another minor detail.
Frisk has a red SOUL.
Clover has a yellow SOUL (justice)
It is HEAVILY implied by undertale that the red SOUL represents YOU,the player:
Frisk is fueled by determination that isn’t even theirs.
Yours.
The flag game represents the red soul color as “you”
Flowey says “let frisk be happy”
Chara says “with YOUR guidance,I realized the purpose of my reincarnation,power.”
Add that to the fact undertale is very meta to begin with.
Flowey calls everything a game.
Napstablook knows he has HP.
Asgore destroys your button.
Sans knows you take turns.
Etc
Clover doesn’t have a red soul,and by extent,no player.
They have no one to power them along.
... except me. When I play him.
The reason that Frisk gets to kill Asgore and cross the barrier even after letting Asgore’s soul shatter, is because they have enough DT on their own, because for Frisk, they have Chara sort of like, following them around. And by the end of the game, if it’s pacifist, Frisk gets full control over their body. If it’s genocide, Chara gets full control over their body, and is reawakened from death. But we, the player also combine our determination with Frisk and Chara’s which makes them have the ability to save/load as all of their combined DT allows them to be stronger than Flowey’s. Clover and the player’s souls were stronger together, but it isn’t enough to make them save/load. Flowey still has control over everything, and it’s only during the genocide run that Flowey’s DT is lower than Clover’s and the players. But even then, they still needed a monster soul to get past the barrier. I feel like the same cycle will happen with each human. Like, Frisk/Chara’s whole deal is, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because I want to!” Then Clovers is, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster for the sake of retribution!”
The green soul would probably be, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster to end all of their misery!”
The purple soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster so I can gather enough information to escape the underground!”
The blue soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because it’s what my heart is telling me what’s right!”
The orange soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because nothing is impossible!”
The cyan soul, “I’m going to kill/spare every monster because it’s going to be inevitable once they come!”
I feel like frisk was just the strongest human that fell underground as clover needed lv 20 to be able to manipulate the timeline while frisk only needed lv 1
With Chara fully awake, sure Frisk can overpower Flowey and Save at LV1
Its not frisks determination tho its the players
@@cyanite4745 its frisks soul tho
Asgore really just didnt wanna continue doing what he was doing. Like they said, all he needed was one human soul to destroy the barrier. But he was so angry after both his sons past he let his people remained trapped down there longer than they needed to. You can really feel those emotions when you fight him in Undertale neutral.
One soul to CROSS the barrier not destroy it
Keep in mind Frisk was the last the last soul needed to break the barrier. Once the barrier is broken, the war with humanity would commence and Asgore was lowkey not wanting to go through with it. By the time he met Frisk, his anger has subsided and that drive was gone. He was only doing this because he made the declaration and didn’t want to break the hope of his people. So maybe his fight him playing with either him losing/dying and Frisk being free so the war wouldn’t commence or him winning and freeing his people
Bro not even the creators have an answer, clover was just meant to die and that's it.
I'm holding out for an ACTUAL pacifist version where I can just challenge all the 'monsters' to a bake-off!😋 Toriel would be the super tough final boss, the quests would be finding/obtaining ingredients, and everybody would get to stay alive!😊 (which color was supposed to be a chef, green?)
Yes
Hehe sounds fun and delicious
And yeah I believe green soul had the pan
My opinion is that the player has influence over Frisk, but the fangame doesn't give you "true" control over Clover. The player's influence is the only reason Frisk can beat Asgore. But it's a fangame, so they couldn't change the canon really.
It’s confirmed that he only held back on the last kill becuase killing clover changed something in asgore and he felt more guilty about the death of all the children which is why his attacks do 1/2 damage they should. Normally he has 160 ATK 160 DEF and that’s how he killed clover and the others. He was so close to war he didn’t want and he wanted an easy way out which is why he goaded frisk into killing him (by destroying mercy and going easy on you)
Determination.
In reality Asgore would be a very tough boss if you couldn't save/load and a single mistake meant death.
Also as you said... he was holding back A LOT when facing ,,Frisk"
Nice vid. Love your content Please keep making great content
Thank you! That seriously means a lot
The 1st human to fall down must have had a rough time
The human before Clover attacked Dalv so they probably attacked other monsters. After the last human attacked people Asgore was less willing to spare humans but since Clover gives up there soul peacefully in the canon ending, he would become more willing to spare humans again.
My understanding is that Clover is simply less powerful/determined than Frisk. Clover can't overwrite Flowey's powers until level 20, while Frisk could do it right from the start. In turn, Clover never actually defeats Flowey in the neutral route, while Frisk does, despite Flowey being MORE powerful when fighting Frisk. Plus, Genocide Clover doesn't one-shot bosses, while Genocide Frisk does.
Clover reaching level 20 and then overpowering flowey is a coincidence, the real reason is at that point they simply became that determined to accomplish their goal.
Clover: "HEY CMON MAN... WHY? I NEVER KILLED ANYONE! YOU KILLED ME!"
I feel like Clover is just weaker than Frisk for most part, at least during a Pacifist Playthrough, seeing as Frisk was able to take control over the Save File by merely existing.
But once they get to Level 20, I'd say they're on par with a Genocide Frisk. Seeing as even though Asgore had more will to fight Genocide Clover, which would boost his defenses seeing as a Monster's defense is tied to their willingness to fight and harm someone, compared to his more relaxed mindset when Frisk one shot him (which would lowered his defenses cause he wasn't prepared to battle). And despite Asgore's willingness to fight, Clover was able to One Shot him
Let's not forget also that clover can't reset the entire time it's flowey who has the ability to reset and during our omega flowey fight we don't actually beat flowey he just got bored of us and once he got bored he stopped helping us after asgore.
For an entirely fan made game, Undertale yellow just feels so...canon.
I loved your stream! Have a nice day :)
Edit:I am doing a pacifist run and I got soft locked at honeydew inn because my keyboard broke XD
Thank you so much
Its also canon that all the other souls used to be able to save. As you fight asgore if you died to him once and talked to him he would nod solemnly as though he understood and already had that happen to him
The library huh that really explain why frisk or chara deals 99999999999 damage, but why it doesnt on undyne the undying
Simple, they didn't want to program full Asgore's fight and later Flowey with 5 souls
It's doesn't matter who is fighting them, beceuase in the end we are doing it so it doesn't matter which vessel si fighting.
I guarentee you if they programmed the route to the end, people would have passed it even if it would be on 1hp.
I much prefer the idea that that's just the sheer difference between regular souls, and the determination soul. But hey, maybe that's just my headcannon
Броня Темми, Ирисковый пирог, и разговор. Азгор будет наносить 2 хп
frisk has more determination. flowey saves for you in yellow, but frisk saves for himself.
That also kind of explains how sans does so much damage, the karma isn’t a ability he’s born with but just how the battle system works
this actually makes so much sense. it perfectly applies to Sans as well. in genocide, he has no cruel intentions, simply the desire to avenge those he cares about and to put you in your place, which is why he does 1 damage, but also has KR. he’s always had good intentions, but wants your actions to sting you badly, for you to feel the wrath you brought upon monsterkind so you would reset and restore everything to its base state.
I feel like in terms of sheer power potential Asgore is the single most underrated character.
i also like to imagine that asgore falters in his fight with frisk because he knows that monsters strolling out of the barrier with the souls of seven human children isn’t going to be a good look and his people will more then likely be thrown right back where they came from.
also, we already know clover SUCKS at undertale and staying alive, the whole reason undertale yellow even happens in the first place is because flowey was sick of them always dying and so he tried to send them somewhere else to maybe finally get to asgore, but flowey does eventually realise that clover is destined to always die as well and so at some point the world continues on without clover and flowey waits for the final human to fall
and also we already know that frisk looks suspiciously a lot like chara which flowey/asriel mention and asgore and toriel are most definitely thinking the same thing, like a part of them is killing chara all over again but at the same time also just another child just like their own
That`s not the case. In flowey memories we can hear sound of Sans attack. I don`t think that 1 lvl human can outwin final boss encounter just after the ruins
Fun fact: asgore se supone que tiene 80 de defensa pero en el codigo del juego realmente tiene una defensa de -30
It’s also worth noting that Clover doesn’t have nearly the same level of determination as Frisk does. Flowey helps Clover save because his determination is greater than theirs. Frisk can save over Flowey’s files which means they have more determination than him, therefore Frisk’s determination is more than Clover’s.
Determination levels:
Clover < Flowey < Frisk
Determination is also a factor in attack and defense. Frisk was able to continuously survive Asriel’s attacks because they were determined to save EVERYONE. This results in two things:
1) Whenever Frisk “dies”, their heart refuses, and they respawn
2) When Asriel attacks with all of his magic, Frisk stays determined to keep living and reach out to save him
Clover notably does survive a barrage of attacks from Yellow’s Pacifist final boss, but their heart is not capable of “refusing” like Frisk’s can (both survive attacks that force their HP to near 0, but neither die from their respective attacker’s onslaught).
I personally believe that Clover was fully determined to deliver justice to the final boss and got a small boost in determination from that. But justice can often be skewed, and the power of love and friendship (Frisk) is far greater a boost in terms of determination than revenge or “duty”.
So yeah. That’s why Frisk is “stronger” than Clover. Frisk’s determination simply comes from a different place than Clover’s, which exemplifies their higher level of determination comparatively
Clover is also just weaker in general and doesn’t have the level of determination that Frisk has, all the enemies Clover fights have weaker stats than the enemies Frisk fights
Clover: Wasn't this a turn-based RPG?
Temmie armor💀
flowey was the one brining back Clover so he wanted 6 souls to absorb thus he waited till the last to obtain those souls so he brings you back so you get to asgore but than just says nah and screws you over
It’s kinda sad playing through the game as a pacifist knowing either way you go this kid is gonna die cause it’s a prequel
I WISH that the green soul defeats Asgore and lends his hand to help him up and forgive him (because the green soul is kindness) and Asgore just kills him
I like how you don’t see the other like special area of the underground because it’s basing it on genocide so basically clover killed them all but you can still have asgore
a better example would be the fact that Asgore is still determined to fight in the war, and as such, shows no mercy or remorse to Clover and all the children before them, but with Frisk, he loses that determination due to time. he still removed mercy, yes, but it's clear he doesn't have the same violent urge or determination he had for the prior souls
There’s one thing that need to be reminded that the determination soul is way stronger than others. Firstly, when Frisk fell to the underground, they can overwrite Flowey’s save but in Clover’s case, they can’t. Secondly, When Asriel absorbs Chara’s soul(determination soul), he becomes Asriel Dreemurr(God of Hyperdeath) and he needs to absorb the 6 human soul and other monsters soul to become God of Hyperdeath. That means that the determination soul is way stronger
Frisk also is possessed by chara whether you play pacifist or genocide, thus giving enough determination to save on your own. And thus making frisk more powerful. (This is also why clover becomes powerful enough on genocide, as he gains determination fueled by revenge, but also having a higher LV and XP helps)
I was sure that it was confirmed that asgore is reminded that frisk looks like chara if you befriend everybody but dont go into the true lab and instead proceed onto fighting asgore he will commit suicide but one of his lines state "when i look at you im reminded of thr first human that fell" which would be chara i think that combined with frisk's immense determination and the fact that he is so close to a war against the humans not to mention that in clover's case asgore doesn't give him a chance to attack possibly because clover id the 2nd to last soul and clover doesnt look like chara nor do they have as much determination as frisk. I also dont think the humans had the ability to save themselves either since when flowey says that frisk's determination overpowers his own he seems surprised as if it hasnt happened before although i could be wrong since asgore only nods when you say he has killed you before but i believe thats just because of the sort of deja vu that the monsters get when you reset like when toriel guesses your pie preference if you reset so maybe asgore comes to that conclusion naturally or maybe he just doesnt believe you.
I feel like despite the fact Clover can't remember RESETs, but since they were exposed to Flowey's determination, I feel like they could see know about other runs.
"your crimes are irredeemable"
a judge is someone that judges, they dont apply the Punishment
Where Did You Find The Song Im Vibing
Undertale Yellow Forlorn OST
Its kinda sad that we have to die in the end tho.
I'd imagine, were there fangames stretching all the way back to Cyan (first human to fall down after Chara died), Asgore would be progressively harder in each one as we get closer to the event that fueled his anger.
In the pacifist run, the game ends after the Ceroba fight, with clover giving their soul. Idk how u got to asgore
This is also paires with the fact that Frisk has a direct control over saves and loads meanwhile Clover only does in geno
Its not that Clover is weaker than Frisk neccesarily but rather that he had much harsher conditions against a Asgore which was still determined to fight and not having any way to save themselves
actually yeah since flowey wanted this clover would have to beat asgore in one go which for the sake of the run is impossible i think it would be interesting if you could get a neutral ending variant if you were able to kill asgore but its INSANELY difficult.
True Pacifist/genocide
Frisk is also... uh, a lot more powerful than Clover. Clover wasn't really determined at all by the time he got to Asgore. Unless you did a vengeance run, where he just beams Asgore to death. Frisk, on the other hand, although hesitant, was still ready to fight. It also helped that being the last soul made Asgore more hesitant to kill them, but this hesitation goes both ways. On the other hand UTY is a fangame so you can't expect it to be a hundred percent accurate.
Imagine there is Undertale Purple, Orange, Cyan, Blue, and Green. which it basically tells all the backstories of all human souls and how it happened
I thought monster's lies about their stats.
Didn't the game even tells you that in Undertale?
This is further evidenced by the fact that if Flowey doesn't kill Asgore, he'll just do it to himself instead.
This is why I prefer genocide instead of pacifist, you get a semi good ending on genocide.
Азгор:*достаёт трезубец*
Пацан:*достаёт револьвер*
Its because Asgore has no desire to shatter the barrier anymore by the time Frisk arrives. They have no desire to reignite the war between monsters and humans. If Toriel and Asgore wanted to kill you, you'd be dead.
I feel like it makes sense because clover would focus more on his gun then defense and armor so. He would be weaker as because of frisk only having a knife she has to focus on her attack and defense more. Just to get through. Plus if she dies she can all ways come back. It kind of the same with clover just something different
For me Asgore is the strongest monster in undertale (aside from gods and undyne the undying), being capable of beating every iteration of the player and frisk, but failing due to him holding back or being taken by surprise.
Sans should have callee Asgor for help instead of trying to do everything alone.
It could be in Undertale Yellow Asgore doesn't feel bad for the pain he's caused. It's not until Undertale Asgore actually feels sorry for what he's done, sure his intentions were pure at first wanting to set the monsters free as time went on he regrets what he was doing
Posiblemente Asgore puede inhabilitar más botones con su tridente, con Frisk solo inhabilitó piedad, con Clover le dijo "en términos de esperanza, ya no tienes esperanza"
Lo que me pregunto es que tan fuerte es Clover nivel 20, viendo que eso le otorgo el poder de cargar la partida sin necesitar determinación (o al menos no tanta como Frisk)
this is why I like the genocide ending because Asgore absolutely had it coming for prolonging this war and freeing everyone for so long
should have just done it with 1 soul bro and look what happened because you waited for so long
I wonder. Do they give us a specific date in which Clover fell? What about when Frisk fell as well?
Frisk's stats are still higher than clover's at the end of the game, though.
Im more of "frisk is more determined that clover" guy
He is also the king of the monster who can be the first to start a move and prolong it for quite a long time.
I think Asgore's attack drops further if you recover health with Toriel's pie.
If clover killed asgore in flawed pacifist (if flowey revived them for example) then it would be true justice cus its one certain monster that killed humans (we don't know that axis killed integrity) not whole race though flowey probably would consume souls but tbh i think we wouldve fight off or just let the guy be cus we don't need souls( i mean kids are dead so why wouldve we need their souls?)
I love those little detail in the game, it makes the character So real
I will point out that asgore doesn't have 80ATK and 80DEF, because flavor text is just that, flavor text. Functionally he has different stats. Look at Mettaton NEO for what I mean, he has 90ATk and 9 DEF in his flavor text, and then in the games code its actually -10,000 or less (i forgot the nunber)
It’s still kinda stupid there isn’t even a chance because I’m fine if it’s stupidly hard and difficult and gets you a worse ending but I prefer an almost impossible battle that encourages you to give up after every attempt giving you the normal ending once you do so but forcing you to loose makes the entire game feel pointless if in the end unless you want to do a genocide run your chooses don’t matter because you simply don’t get to choose in that fight
*C L O V E R B L A S T*
Fun fact:in the asgore fight if you est the pie that toriel gives you on the ruins his defence lowers making the fight way easier
Keep in mind if clover fell shortly after the others fell, then he’s still super pissed.
Clover just doesn’t want to go back to Texas, y’know?
If clover still has 20hp after killing ceroba, it means he takes as much damage as frisk does
Im not sure but on the playthrough i watched there was no level up sound or anything