How To Master Regen-Braking In Any Electric Car For More Range
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2023
- Max discusses the best ways to use and control regen braking to drive efficiently across several brands.
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Electro-braking with regen is, of course, brilliant as an alternative to mechanical braking, because it recaptures a portion of the kinetic energy that would be lost with mechanical brakes (literally blowing away on the wind).
However, as you pointed out, electro-braking is a good thing ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE TO TO SLOW DOWN OR STOP. Electro-braking incurs a round-trip loss on the order of 20-25% from the kinetic energy you extract at the wheels to the electric drive energy that you can put back onto the wheels. That means that every time you seesaw back and forth between electro-braking and acceleration (as happens frequently with one pedal braking), you're losing about a quarter of all the braking energy.
The most efficient way of using your kinetic energy when you don't HAVE to brake is to allow the KE to move the car over the ground directly right now. This is done in a sophisticated maneuver called "coasting". When coasting, there are no 'losses'; every erg of kinetic energy that's 'lost' goes towards moving the car. So, coasting is considerably more efficient that braking when braking isn't required.
This was very informative, thank you!
BMW says the brushes should last 15 years and that they engineered it so that replacing them is a fairly quick and easy thing to do, since they are a wear item. (This was a concern of mine befote I bought my i4.)
Master chef bmw 328 11 years old htbride
My EV6 has regen which can be adjusted with pedals behind the steering wheel from 0 to 4 (one pedal drive). I took me some time to learn to use it, now I adjust it all the time using all levels depending on road and traffic. I start at max driving out of my garage and through the small streets where I live and when I need to frequently stop. On highways I turn it down to zero and it’s amazing how it can coast. Yes the pedals feel different depending on the level, but I quickly got used to that. I would really recommend people explore the options on their car.
Similar to my experience.
I used to set to 3 most of the time, while in the city, but with time I've started using lower regen levels and coasting more.
I find it improves range by a lot.
You should try Auto Regen. Hold the right paddle for a second. It basically does what you are doing without you having to change it. If no one is in front of you and you go to 0 throttle, it coasts. With traffic ahead, coming off throttle will regen to varying degree depending on how quickly you need to stop. I've found it to be a great blend of coast-ability and energy recuperation.
@@CougAbides I tried it but couldn’t make it work for me. It seemed to random when regen was strong or not. I do agree it’s worth trying.
Try auto regen, you are wasted the smart regen control
I own Ioniq 6 which has 4 levels on paddles and auto. I’ve done test on motorway driving 70mph constant speed with regen set to zero. While driving decided to turn regen on holding accelerator pedal in the same position maintaining the 70mph and increasing level of regen. With each level increase while holding accelerator in the same position the car was slowing down more and more. So to maintain 70mph I had to press accelerator pedal more and more. Can anyone explain why this is the case ? I was thinking regen breaking should apply only when braking and not be on all the time “holding vechicle back”. I’m now using auto which still sometimes applies regen when no need for braking. I would appreciate if someone could explain. Can’t find answers
Helpful Video - - - I am a teacher that is describing EVs versus Gas Engine and Diesel Engine vehicles. I will definitely use your video to augment my class' understanding of Regen. Braking......
I use regen purely to avoid using the service brakes, and increased efficiency is only an upshot. I have never ever once come across a situation where I thought "I'd like to slow down right now but without regen." I turn one pedal driving off when I cancel cruise control with the regen paddle on my bolt, but always put it back on once I've coasted enough.
I love my e-Golf because it offers 5 settings all the way from coasting (D) all the way to max regen (B), with D3, D2 and D1 in between the extremes.
Charge car to 90% and will get full regen, typically, at moderate battery temps.
Nice video. As a newer EV driver I like having two driving modes in my ID4. I use D mode on the highway and B in the city and for big hills. Both modes in the ID4, are pretty similar efficiency wise in most settings. There are times when I find B mode a bit exhausting to use vs coasting.
Thank you! I just got a bmw i4. First electric car. Your video helps
This is a very well made video 👍
Driving most efficient, is not just about max regen, it is about driving with the lowest use of regen. Regen gets back only a small fraction of the electric power, could add up in stop and go traffic.
On a straight route, highway traffic, it is best to minimize regen(by not modulating the gas pedal) by gradual acceleration,coasting and deceleration.
It took me about a week or two of driving my Model Y to get used to one pedal driving. Three years later I can sometimes drive for a week without touching the brake pedal.
I activated one pedal driving and hold mode on when I first got my car and never had to adjust it or change it.
First time I hear that GM recommends not to charge the Hummer EV close to 100% if you are going down hill afterwards because you might not be able to stop the vehicle.
That's a nice way of fixing the issue. Just as when they were recommending to park 50 feet away from other cars or not to charge inside you garage if you had a Chevy Bolt/Volt.
I've had my Rivian R1S for a week and thought it was going to take me some time to get use to it, but I'm pretty comfortable with it already and dare to say I prefer the one pedal now.
Thanks for the explanation.
I use one pedal driving, almost exclusively with my 2024 Honda Accord hybrid. You can adjust the strength of the breaking with the gas pedal with a series of paddle shifts. Only under extreme circumstances what I ever use the brakes. In the first 1000 miles, I’ve had 55 miles per gallon average.
Good for yiu it
One other thing to note with using OPD primarily is if you don't brake using the pads regularly, rust can accumulate on the rotors, so it is good to hard brake every once in a while to clean off the rotors
Did I hear you say the motor rolls backwards under regenerative braking? The motor does not roll backward, that would take a change in the gearing. It is still turning the same direction, only thing that changes is the current flow, this is all handled by the computer electronically, no physical change in motor direction occurs.
Yes, just trying to get across the rotor in motor slows the tire instead of a kinetic brake rotor on the wheel. I find the analogy helpful but thank you for the clarification :)
@@outofspecguide it’s basically doing the same thing as engine braking in an ICE vehicle, it is using the drag created by the motor, but unlike an ICE vehicle that is using the engine compression to slow the car, wasting energy in the process, an EV is generating electricity that creates the drag to slow the vehicle and you get to recover part of that energy back into the battery.
One situation where one pedal driving is especially nice is when driving through mountainous terrain. With one pedal driving, there is no need to switch back and forth between pedals on every downhill, and no need to wear out your friction brakes maintaining 50 mph on a steep descent. In fact, regen in an EV even works under cruise control, so you can descend a steep hill at constant speed, without needing to press down on any pedal at all.
I'd love to know the OBDII and software you guys use to monitor the battery packs as I've seen in many of your videos
This has been widely debated in the Polestar Forum, and it seems to have netted out that there is very little to no difference in efficiency between OPD and standard coasting, at least for the Polestar. The Polestar uses a lot of blended braking even with OPD off, and so with highway driving it is often more efficient to coast. Not about driver excellence or anything, really just the physics of the vehicle, much like with the Porsche reference you mentioned. With my Polestar I personally drive OPD in city and traffic and then turn it off for most highway driving. I enjoy the feeling of OPD so will often just use because it's enjoyable and relaxing. But just recently did a full 100-0% range test largely with OPD off and still hit the 400KM/250miles the vehicle is rated for. I think really drive what makes you feel good and it'll all work out.
I have had a Leaf, Bolts Tesla and the ID.4. for me the one that has gotten it right is ID.4. It's far more natural and uses blended brakes when you step on the pedal. Plus with the auto hold feather is great. The one pedal drive mode best for me is on the Nissan Leaf 2018 and up. I didn't get used to the one in Tesla as for some reason it seemed to pulse. That's just my view.
Huh. I’ve been using Tesla’s one pedal driving mode since it was introduced and have never felt any pulsing. It comes to a stop more smoothly than I can.
My bolt doesn't use blended braking unless you use the brake pedal. It still manages to stop me even on slight inclines and does have a hold feature
Model 3 and Y show precisely how much regen is available by making the left end of the power bar dotted. Likewise, the right end is dotted to show how much power is available. This has been the case for at least 5 years. The text message came later, and the icon is a recent addition, but the dotted bar remains.
One pedal driving has been around along time in commercial diesel driving. Instead of regen, the Jake brake slows the rig. In a heavy rig, keeping the service brakes stone cold is the goal so they have max effect in emergency situations.
I own Ioniq 6 which has 4 levels on paddles and auto. I’ve done test on motorway driving 70mph constant speed with regen set to zero. While driving decided to turn regen on holding accelerator pedal in the same position maintaining the 70mph and increasing level of regen. With each level increase while holding accelerator in the same position the car was slowing down more and more. So to maintain 70mph I had to press accelerator pedal more and more. Can anyone explain why this is the case ? I was thinking regen breaking should apply only when braking and not be on all the time “holding vechicle back”. I’m now using auto which still sometimes applies regen when no need for braking. I would appreciate if someone could explain. Can’t find answers
Would love to hear more about how brake lights behave with regen. For example, I heard with the Ioniq they don't come on as you are gradually regening/slowing down? Seems very dangerous if that's the case.
If you're curious about the regen states that trigger brake lights on the Ioniq 5, you may find this useful: ruclips.net/video/G1rJNNKRzqY/видео.html
I agree it's a bit of an art and balancing act of when to show the brake lights with a given amount of slow down, but it's worth noting that for decades manual cars have had engine braking and haven't shown brake lights, so some amount of coasting and slow down without brake communication should be reasonable
I can assure you the brake light does come on. I drive an EV6 (same drive train as the Ioniq 5). I cannot explain how it technically works but if I regen very little like the engine brake in a gas car, the brake light won’t turn on, but when I regen over some defined threshold the brake light will come on. I was very curious how it works, I tested and it worked like I would hope.
@@tomm5936 Okay. Good to know. Had heard different
Dual motor Model 3 strongly favors the rear motor for both acceleration and regen. Most of the time the front motor isn’t doing anything, as shown by Bjørn Nyland using Scan My Tesla. Model Y is presumably the same. Physics says either axle will be able to capture the same energy. Tesla presumably chose the rear because the front has an induction motor that’s less efficient.
Weight shifts forward under braking, so the front brakes have to handle more of the braking load. This is why front discs heat up faster than rear discs. Might as well let the friction brakes up front safely deal with the heavier load, letting the rear brakes utilize regen instead.
@@BogeyTheBear good point
I’m old enough to remember when many cars had quite strong throttle lift-off engine braking. I remember it going away in the late 90’s when variable valve timing was introduced. Automatic transmissions also started using taller gears to improve fuel economy under low-to-zero throttle, which also reduced engine braking. So these days most drivers expect cars to coast when they release the accelerator. These reasons don’t apply to EVs, hence the variation in behavior you have highlighted in this video. Note that the amount of throttle liftoff deceleration varies too. Chevy Bolt has more than Tesla Model 3 for example. Don’t confuse this with one pedal driving, which is where the car will continue to slow down even after regen stops working. For example, Tesla has always had throttle liftoff regen, but only in the last 4 or so years have they had one pedal driving. Very few drivers care to or know how to hypermile. It’s quite possible to do regardless of how the accelerator pedal works. The more important question is what is best for safety and driving enjoyment.
Maybe someone else has pointed this out already, but at 0:40 you mentioned heat instead of kinetic energy.. Unless I am mistaken, and you are talking about a different kind of energy recovery.
Thank you for the insight. I’ve ofter wondered about the regen efficiency of rear-drive EVs.
How does the system voltage improve regen braking? For example, Porsche claims that for their Taycan it’s the 800V system that makes it possible for regen to take care of 93% of normal driving braking?
That's right
This was very good ( have a hybrid )
Kinetic energy gets converted into electrochemical energy. You said heat energy - it’s not heat energy that’s harvested for regen.
Thanks! Correct.
My 2024 kona ev lets me coast on regen 0 which i can adjust real-time w the steering wheel paddles. I love that - i increase the regen when I have to slow down and turn it off when i speed up again
lol ok there you mention it!
I know Hyundai uses one pedal regen using the gas pedal, levels 0-4, but how does it use the brake pedal?
Does stepping on the brake pedal in a Hyundai EV or Hybrid activate only the friction brakes.
Or does stepping on the brake pedal activate “Brake Blending”? (that is Blending both regen and friction)
If so, does stepping on the brake pedal, activate brake blending even if in any one of the 4 one pedal modes 0-4?
I have a Nissan Ariya, my first electric car. I have a question about regen driving. Is it better to coast and slowly slow down, low regen but longer or slow down faster, higher regen but shorter time? thanks
Whatever keeps you accelerating the least. So typically slower, smoother! Try to keep momentum (within safe limits) as best possible basically - avoiding sudden slowing or speeding up. Make your accelerations slower (as is safe) to be efficient too.
Sure coasting is most efficient, no energy transfer, no losses. However, I have found coasting basically useless in real world driving. With wind resistance, tire rolling resistance, etc. it is pretty much impossible to coast and maintain speed. One pedal is awesome in traffic and I have no trouble maintaining speed on the highway. After driving manual transmission gas cars for years I can’t stand it when I release the accelerator and the vehicle doesn’t slow down.
I coast quite often in the real world. Not useless at all. But I live in a mix of suburb and rural, in the city I don't coast much. I know that many city folk like to think we out here aren't part of the real world, but I would argue the opposite 😂.
Master chef drove exodic cars stick camshaft. 155mph soeed eemnn cars 155 moh
My 2015 bmw i3 has great regen ...1 peddle driving for sure..
I tend to tell folks that using regen is the best way to have longer range. But the more I drive, and more metrics and data I collect, the more I feel like coasting with low or no regen level set the range is better, unlike past me used to.
Personally, owning a Renault Megane e-tech, which allows for 4 levels of regen, I now flip between them multiple times in a ride, sometimes in the same street, avoiding using the break pedal as much as I can
When you use the brake pedal doesn’t it regen and then blend the friction brake? That’s what my Kia EV6 does, and I thought all cars except Tesla will do.
@@tomm5936 I believe it does. And somehow that feels like more regen gains, than using heavier regen
Great video, very informative. But my guy, please use your windshield wipers!
New combustion tech has regen braking WITHOUT use of electric motors or batteries. It uses compressed air that is later injected into the engine. It does not store energy as "fuel" as a BEV does (Chemical energy in battery), but only saves work in the combustion cycle (compression). The efficiency is equal to the car efficiency. This new tech will be 75%, so regen is 75%. An old ICE car would not be able to do this as an Otto cycle is NOT an "open cycle" combustion system. In theory an Otto cycle is 30% peak and if regen were possible, it would only be 30% efficient.
During EV regen, the process is the efficiency squared. For example if the engine is 80% plug to wheel, it will be 0.80 ^2= 64% or the efficiency twice which is 0.8 x 0.8 = 64%. This clearly shows that coasting is more efficient as it does not use the process twice as regen with EVs does.
This new combustion tech uses three pedals: One for acceleration to the right, one for friction braking in the middle and one for regen braking to the left. You can apply regen with the left foot and then also use friction braking from 5 mph to 0 mph to modulate brakes. This promotes coasting and the motors STOP while costing. There is no need to idle the car and the motors are very low inertia and can start and stop without use of a starter. Motors also torque out from zero RPM similar to an EV.
This new combustion tech will be 150 MPG HWY, 240 city, 200 combined, thus beating all EVs in energy consumption. This is due to cycle efficiency at 75%, 75% brake recovery, and 1/2 the weight with no drive battery to carry around.
With RE fuels at $1-1.5/gal made at home vs charging on a RE grid at $20-30/gallon equivalent, this combustion tech will be ~20 times less costs for energy, making BEVs a high cost choice.
chevy volt has low mode which is almost 1 pedal driving. the volt doesnt let you charge past 88%ish SOC depending on battery age so you almost always have normal regen. if you charge to full at the top of a large hill and then drive down and manage to get to 100% soc, the car actually starts spinning the motors in opposite directions so you never feel a difference in break pedal feel. the rare earth perm mag motors in the 1st gen tends to get me around 7miles/kwh around town which blows tesla out of the water. not having rare earth perm mag motors is a cost shaving strategy to save a couple hundred dollars per vehicle imo. supply shortages are not real if youre not doing super lean just in time mfg either
Could you also cover when the break lights do and don't come on when using regeneration?
It's the same acceleration force as they normally come on at with kinetic brakes. No difference! Law regulates this luckily :)
@@iMaxPatten that's good to hear, because my old e golf could regen pretty aggressively in 1,2, or 3 settings without the break light coming on. Only in B mode would it trigger the break lights
ruclips.net/video/U0YW7x9U5TQ/видео.html
Tech Connections just covered this topic now
BMW i3 did not have brake blending either.
good explanation, i wonder if you had already an academic background or a just a fan
Does this work for my hybrid too?2024 CRV
Yes it dise master chef has bmw 2013 bmw 32i 1.3 jw hybrude. 11 years in d 81,100 mioe on Hyde 1.3 jw 6. Mike's hybrued ev range
Yes
Your language is that of a person with a STEM degree 👍🏾
I don’t think the motor goes into reverse to regenerate the battery … you can’t have a motor spinning at thousands of RPM suddenly spinning in the opposite direction.
My understanding is that the electrical circuitry changes, so that the motor generates electricity.
Can you please clarify?
Correct “rolling backwards” is inaccurate - it’s a switch in current direction
Minimum regen, max coasting for the best range.
Wrong
@@sharonbraselton3135 what is wrong? Coasting is of course more efficient than regen, should only use regen instead of friction brakes when you need to stop
regen happens when we leave the speed or push the brake
TFTC
“You take the heat energy from rolling backwards.” Uh. Mmmm. You want to try again?
Personally I don't understand the appeal of one pedal, I prefer to have more control over things.
Perhaps I'm just old, but I find the more smart features we add, the dumber people get.
Turn it off when you're on a road trip on an open road. Turn it on when in cities, around town, and traffic.
Regen is also standard on all hybrids.
Yup, but we don’t really talk about hybrids here! We’re full BEV.
@@iMaxPatten thank you
Yes it dose
Regeneration efficiency is only about 65%, its not a magic box that gets more energy out than you put in, you can't break physics!
That's futerr
I think you’ve been spending too much time around Kyle as it took 15 minutes to explain something that could’ve been explained in 2 minutes…
Just like basically every RUclips video. I’m thinking about starting a channel on how to stretch out videos using long winded useless jibber jabber, problem is I can’t come up with enough filler nonsense to fill in my videos. I’ve come to the conclusion that it is either some sort of art form or it is related to ADHD.
Haha maybe that’s why Kyle hired him?
It's intentional to get videos to at least 10 min for monetization purposes
Idk, if you wanted a 2m explanation watch a 2m video, or google it. I think the video did a great job of thoroughly explaining different brand's implementations and variations in regenerative breaking
Hi guys, greetings from the U.K. Anyone who drives an EV should set their vehicle to maximum regen, initially this will feel strange if you are used to a combustion car, but you adapt really quickly and it becomes an amazing way to drive, using just the accelerator. Your argument against using full regen is very weak, I’ve had a BEV since 2019, even on the freeway I leave regen fully engaged, it is far safer, and far more efficient. If an incident occurs ahead of you and you need to slow down, as soon as you lift off the accelerator, regen kicks in before you can even make content with the brake peddle.
There is also misinformation here. BMW do not used brushed AC motors, that’s just flat out wrong! What they have done is changed the logic in the software controlling the inverter pack to allow motor to effectively be in neutral under certain driving driving conditions, which prevents regen engaging based on a number of parameters monitored by the software, Tesla’s also do this - as you would expect, as they are the most advanced EVs out there.
The EV I own is the little BMW i3 (not the REx, just pure BEV).
1980 efect don't matter exidic cars bad mpgs. Exoca care onnky halo mogs today car 2 tume more full hal range
All EV's should have one pedal driving/regen and the driver needs to not be a total dope and learn to modulate the throttle. This is the very reason why I am scared of the future with self driving tech, the tech iw making drivers dumber and less capable only adding to the justification for the tech because it dumba drivers down.
given your typing prowess, im not too worried.....
Teslas have it and no turning off. Just high and low
Less than a minute into your video, I had to stop watching. This was an extremely flawed explanation of regenerative braking.
Agreed. Unfortunately the guys at Out of Spec spend 45 minutes to explain something that could be said in about a minute….
You said nothing about how to actually make use of ReGen. All you talked about was the engineering.
You do realize how stupid it sounds for you to say how amazing the engineering of the GM Hummer EV is when the next thing out of your mouth is that GM suggests that if you live at the top of a steep hill, to charge to 90% so as to have regenerative braking available to sufficiently slow the vehicle on the hill.
It also indicates a problem with our safety regulations. A car that, if charged too highly at the top of a hill, is not able to quickly stop should not be legal on public roads. Hopefully, nobody will get run over because of the corners that GM cut.