I would go with the DT Swiss option. It is the most expensive option but would be better for the long term. Quality parts and easier to get when needed in the future.
Always avoid any brand with a dodgy spare part service. Always. And, is it for certain that Ringlé make their own cassette bodies? Not buying from Powerway, or Novatec, or... Rgr
Gotta agree with you, I had problems with my DamilComponents hubs and after sending a rear hub for warranty I will just be getting the new dt240 and be done with it, sell this hand made fancy crap for some money and continue riding without interruptions every few months...
Yeah, I super love how Paul tries his absolute best to fix things and keep them out of the landfill. But the easy button, in my book, is buying a new wheel.
I have a similar Option 4, but instead of fixing the current wheel with Shimano microspline, I would repair it with SRAM compatible parts and keep it as a spare.
Watching this stuff, THIS IS WHY I DO MY OWN MAINTENANCE!!! No one will ever care as much about my bike as me, and I don't have to rush stuff out the door because I have 40 other bikes that need my time, and I'm getting paid for it... Nice work Paul
Agreed, but some people have more money than sense right? I don't even know how a shop stuffed up the crank preload collar but its an ideal DIY job, that hub axle looks like someone put vice grips on it.
I'd definitely give the other bikeshop a piece of my mind and chase them for damage, but option 3 was a no brainer as you mentioned the hub and no parts being in stock.
As others have said, rebuild on a DT Swiss hub and ask other shop for a contribution towards the cost of that and the labour cost incurred resetting the cranks/BB and sorting out the cable routing.
Quite straightforward in my mind. Fit the DT Swiss hub, futureproofing the wheel. Take the bill to the previous bike shop and explain this is what their shoddy workmanship has cost, so you'd like them to pay for it.
@@knott4me561 I hear you. Thing is, any reputable shop would at least admit fault for the damage caused (for all we know they didn't charge the owner, as some sort of compensation). But in this internet age we find ourselves living in, a mention of bad workmanship on a certain channel will have a far greater impact than any empty threats. If all else fails, there's always the small claims court 😉
It’s got me thinking what I would do if one of our mechanics did that. I think I would offer to rebuild the wheel with a similar standard hub for free, and maybe offer half price on an upgrade or something.
I would buy a new wheel entirely, and then seek a settlement with the bike shop. Maybe, net 1/2 the costs back and call it a day. There is a lot of very clear damage to the parts, so a settlement would probably come through.
Option 3. Rebuild the wheel as it will be a an upgrade. Future servicing and parts for the wheel will be easier to get. They could even just buy a new off the shelf wheel. For the bottom bracket I would check whether any crank spacers are required and if the correct ones have been used. For SRAM AXS Road and Gravel cranks there are two sizes road and wide. I used the wide crank but altered the crank spacers to improve my chain line and shifting, but I still make sure the spacers added up to 8 mm over all, so the preload did need over tightening.
Hubs and freehubs even on some pretty expensive bikes are so often not detailed in a bike's specification and are often something impossible or hard to locate anywhere when they need maintenance and/or replacement parts. Add to that a lot of hub/freehub designs are poorly sealed. So the best option in your situation and for anyone buying a new bike, is to make sure hubs and freehubs are a known brand. That is the best solution for you and your customer both now but also into the future. My choice is always DT Swiss.
I own service velo mobile cycle works. Great content by the way. As a mechanic, I’d expect the customer to fetch the wheel back for a resolution. That said, I wouldn’t have used mole grips on the axle or any nuts. It’s easy, a wheel build. I remember Ringle’, nice stuff as I recall. For the mole grip mechanic, Park tools supply a cheap axle vice so you don’t need to bodge.
I would ask Ringle to make a one time exception and ship you the parts. I ran into the same problem with a well known hub manufacturer in Taiwan. When I explained the problem they took ownership and sent me the parts at no charge. Great customer service, good company!
Re-build the wheel and never go back to the previous bike shop….. this is a good lesson, find people you trust and if they are good stay with them and accept that sometimes you have to wait for quality 👍
As a bicycle shop owner, I would ask for time and get the correct parts. If you can't be given the time to find the parts, rebuild it and get it out the door asap. Love your videos.
You laid out the options well. Now have the customer choose their option. You can always figure out a way to get the parts, even if they have to be ordered through a US or Canadian shop. There's a chance we have them in stock, actually. Personally, I'd rebuild the wheel on the new, better hub. As the mechanic, I would also call the shop that did the earlier work and share you findings. The owners/managers of that shop may have no idea they put out that kind of work. I have certainly always be super appreciative when other shops have let me know when we've screwed up. And, if it's okay with your customer, let the other shop know who the customer is so they can reach out if they choose.
The only option is the new hub..hopefully the saving on the group set will cover some/ all of the cost. The other message is - it’s worth waiting for the bike shop you know and trust to do something rather than giving it to someone else. My LBS is 30 miles away and although it can be a pain once you have a relationship with them they’ll usually put themselves out and their mechanics are spot on.
Having watched your mega wheel video from last week. Rebuild with the DT swiss hub. As you said there, avail of parts means long term, should be easier to repair / replace and maintain. May as well do it right for all that nice new kit the customer got. Hopefully it will be sorted for them soon.
I would go for the wheel rebuild with a DT Swiss hub, at least that way the owner will be able to get hub spares easily. Having a hub that you can't get spares for in the UK will be potentially costly and a pain in the future. I would also be having 'word' with the bike shop who done the bodged work as well. It is a shame bike manufacturers use good quality rims just as a ploy to name grab, to sell bikes, when they cut costs/quality elsewhere... They are my thoughts on the subject👍
Option 3. While Option 1 might seem interesting on the surface to see if it works, the old hub seems to have been bodged in the previous process which would be problematic even if the Shimano cassette worked. The uncertainty of "if and when" for option 2, as well as expense, would leave me in a position that a new hub with wheel rebuild would at least have the bike back to me in a reasonable amount of time.
i'd try shimano casette, just to see if claimed lack of cross-compatibility is true :) as for the hub parts - have you tried ordering freehub etc via canyon? If they are fitting them on their bikes, there is a chance that they also keep some replacement parts.
New hub, no question about it and any other option would just be wrong.... Heck, the customer can't even go back to his or her old drivetrain because of the absolute carnage they did on the rear hub. The other "shop" needs to compensate the customer (not your problem obviously) and that would help offset the cost of the only repair option that should ever be considered.
New hub, or new whole wheel. It's a tad surprising that Ringle don't have a XD freehub available. Left-field option 2.1 might be to see if an XD freehub from another manufacturer happens to fit the Ringle shell... Probably not but worth a try.
Oh this is such a no brainer. Rebuild with new hub. Might seem expensive but it's a repairable fix for life. Also adds to resale price..... no brainer.
Well I ALWAYS replaced the rear hub on EOM wheels on all of my bikes. There's always some questions to it. Particularly the rear hub, everything else most of times fine. Just rebuild the wheel and put the one I want.
First I would never darken the door of whatever shop did that work, holy shit, can adjust a head set properly!!! Then I would put my old groupset on whilst waiting for a new wheel to be built up.
Option 3 - initial cost slightly higher but for any system the through life cost is significant and the DTSwiss hub will be reliable and supportable. Whoever trashed the hub previously should be held liable for the damage.
I'm a bit OCD and can build my own wheels, so I'd be straight down the re-hub route. Dependant on just how OCD I was feeling I'd rebuild the front wheel with a matching hub too. Likely I'd go Hope rather than DT but thats a personal thing I guess.😊
New hub, probably get something cheaper than DT-Swiss, e.g. Bitex if it was for me but I guess if you're a bike shop you don't want the hub to ever come back under warranty. If the customer wanted to save some money he could use this an excellent opportunity to learn how to build wheels.
The DT hub option. It's a superior hub, given the reliability and availability of parts for them, it's the only logical option. Would you actually reuse any of the spokes though? I've always been under the impression that they should only really be used once. I'd risk it on my own wheel, but that's a different proposition.
Rebuild the wheel w/ the Swiss DT. What happens almost every time when 'making do' is that one of the many problems is solved only to find another can't be. Venturing into the unknown, you can't guarantee outcome, let alone long-term service and reliability. And what happens next time something goes amiss? Complexity compounds. Save anguish and stress. Do it right by rebuilding.
nice haircut P, looks good on you. option 3 would be my recommendation to the customer and in this case I'd offer a more high end lighter hub as an option too, eg DT180 or i9 hub
Since the current hub manufacturer doesn't have local distribution I wouldn't rebuild it. You're just delaying the disappointment with being unable to get parts. And with the cost of a new hub, replacement spokes and labor (labour I guess would be correct) realistically there may be an Option 4 to consider: Buy a new wheel.
Option three is the only long term holistic solution, when you factor in the supply situation. The other repairers have been heavy handed and should have declined the job. They didn’t have the product knowledge and the supply chain knowledge. They didn’t know that they didn’t know, so they were in a no win situation, but they made it worse by continuing. They were professionally dishonest by virtue of incompetency and ignorance. The best recourse would be to ask them to watch this video, no more than that. This is the price we all pay when the simple bicycle evolves into a very complex apparatus, not helped by an industry which sometimes deliberately introduces unnecessary own brand variants. These Mapdec videos go a very long way to helping both pro workshops and customers, by highlighting and explaining the hard earned knowledge. If sharing is good for business, (which I believe), then Mapdec will rightfully thrive.
Go with new hub and ask Mapdec to send a report on their findings to the other shop and ask them to pay for the damage they caused it at the very least wipe out some or all the service charge they applied to do they groupset install. Barring that, complain to the CC company and ask to stop the charges (hopefully they used a credit card).
Probably the new hub option, or maybe, reassemble the old hub with the Shimano cassette and then sell the wheels on and purchase a cheeky new set of the correct type 👍
I think ultimately this is the customers decision to make, although with a lot of info from you. If you rebuild the rear wheel (my choice) would the 12 speed SRAM shifters/derailleurs shift well with the Shimano cassette? I truly do not know the answer to that, but is that part of the decision as well?. A great topic for conversation, thanks for sharing!
Those Reynolds Ringle hubs are a Wolf in sheep's clothing. I stripped one on 2nd ride and smashed the bearing/pawls onto the axle... Brand new. 2nd ride. Done. Meanwhile, look into the reviews ( TR 309 shares the same hub ) and you'll see these Ringle hubs are a nightmare waiting to happen. Ringle now sells the Super Bubba X hubs in place of the TR and TRS. If I were you, I'd warranty the rear hub for a Super Bubba X and have it sent out with an XD freehub body. * I concur it's hacked-mechaniced, at this point, but it was hacked-engineered to begin with. These hubs should simply be recalled. In saying that, the DT Hub is absolutely a solid choice. It's hours of work and it's money up front, but later on when it's sitting ready to ride, like 99% of the time, you'll never need to look at the Ringle rear hub fiasco ever again. Respectfully,
Sunringle make all of reynolds branded hubs anyway and I found the freehub body on Upgrade, which was in stock. But they don't have the Axle or end caps to buy, so in the end the DT or a hope hub would be the best options for serviceability or the hub. As for who should pay, well that's up to the customer to work out with the other shop in question.
Was going to say "just order from continental Europe" (Germany alone has at least three big shops), but apparently we have these at 130 Euros a piece🤯 (although it looks suspiciously similar to Sram X0/XX/smthelse freehub body - I would try to at least dry fit it in case I had one around) So here's a novel idea, option 4: make the previos bikeshop buy the wheel they mangled. And offer a full replacement. Relacing hubs is just not worth it. Well, maybe somewhat economical, but definentely not from a point of respect and future-proofing.
Im a belt and braces guy, I'd be aftwr the DT Swiss hub. If I went with replaceny parts I'd be forever concerned about what would happen if it fails again down the line, if parts are that hard to get hold of.
I would go with the DT swiss option,expensive but best long term solution,perhaps a loner bike to the customer for the waiting period? The bad bikeshop should pay for the damage done and the labour incurred. There is too many unprofessional shops doing this sort of thing to let it slide.
If the previous shop didnt check with the customer about potential damage given the lack of tools that isn't so great. As yet another option, what about hubs from Novatec or other cheaper brands? The dt swiss 350 is somewhat over priced imho.
For me.. it depends how good the stock hub is. I have a few fancy sun ringlé hubs (I love that anodising, early 90's) at home and they are gorgeous. If it's a good hub, I would try to get hold of spares + 1 for the future and meanwhile try to run the Shimano cassette. If it's not as good a hub, I would relace the wheel for DTswiss, Bitex etc.. hub I know and I can get hold of spares easily.
I hate complaining, so I definitely wouldn't be going back to the last bike shop. I mean, firstly, I would have done hours of research to not get myself in that situation in the first place. But right now, I'd be fitting the DTSwiss hub. I always prefer to spend the money for a proper long term fix.
Kudos, you tried very hard for the customer. I'd suggest completely new wheels but I haven't retained all the content in this clip. How did they get those wheels? (it's a rhetorical question)
I do not accept shortcuts that's why I'd chose the new hub. Extra cost but with the money already spent it wouldn't be the end of the world and at the end I'd enjoy the perfectly working drive train 🙂
Rebuild, so you can swap the alu nippels for brass! It is unbelievable that a big company like Reynolds doesn’t do that from the start. But calculate a higher price than normal. Because dropping a nippel in these rims are going to take you a lot of extra time to get out!
I dropped a nipple. Luckily Jake is laid up on easy duties with a sprained ankle. I said he could go home as soon as it’s out…. I think he is still there.
New high end bike, there's no question in my mind. New hub with XD driver, new spokes if needed and full SRAM neck to bottom. For the long term, for the reliability, for the look of the SRAM groupset too. I would be very upset and could go back to the first shop to ask some kind of compensation for the mess and the induced proper fixing. The problem would be corrected at high cost in order to get the most reliable experience after. Riding this Canyon Lux with trust issues would kill my riding pleasure... It's meant to go far from home, far from any repair shop, I can't bear a single creak noises from my bikes, I would just be pedaling while checking constantly for any unusual behaviour. I won't concentrate on the effort, I won't look at the landscape, I won't be able to relax... it would just be meaningless. It would be different with and old bike though... but in that case, I have no doubt.
It is a bit crazy that distributor or manufacturers wont just post stuff like that. Shops will and its never much bother. I tried to get some parts for a trans x dropper a while back and had the same thing.. sory we dont ship outside the US.
Definitely rebuild the wheel with a quality hub. I would ask the bike shop who made a mess of so many components to make a contribution. I assume they have not been paid for what they did. If they have he should ask for his money back!
I’m guessing you guys have tried, I had to do a nukeproof dh bike with a ringle hub and hotlines managed to find me the right freehub and axle as part of some old stock, might be worth a call🤘
Im running an 11 speed XT cassette on a Sram groupset on my gravel bike. Works fine and not noticing any issues with shifting at all. Using a kmc chain in the mix as well. It is slightly different to the sram cassette , in that I had to index slightly to get it in line. Might have been the alternative hubs I built the wheels with than the fulcrums the bike originally came with. But no biggie. I used an XT cassette for reasons that the lower sram ranges, the cassette is made from granite and the XT was 100 plus grammes lighter. If it was me, I would bin the Ringle and go 350 as the hub is so flexible with changing end caps, axle widths ( with the caps) spares and servicing is so much easier. I do have issues with getting Sun rims for wheelchairs in the UK. I repair wheelchair wheels for a local wheelchair basketball team and when the chair flips and ends on the rims, they are dead. Being box rims is impossible to get right again. We have the situation of paying more import duties than the rim costs and they arent normal rims as they have additional drillings for the push rim to attach it to. Some things you want an easy solution but some are a nightmare .
Mediocre experience with shops and having worked in a bike shop through University, means I will tend to do this myself. You might be able to order the part through PerformanceBike or one of the larger chains in the US, if they will ship to the UK. I know a lot of people using the XT/XTR groupset with Eagle cassettes, but I don't know about an XT cassette with SRAM... I think Pinkbike did a RUclips video where they tested all the combos, relying on manufactures to be honest about interoperability isn't reliable. I would definitely pursue some follow up with that shop as that kind of damage is unacceptable. If you can't make something fit, call the customer and advise them before pulling out the mallet.
I wouldn’t do anything but change the hub to a DT350 or maybe even Hope. Reason being: the time required to repair the hub (plus shipping and vat on the required parts) will add up to quite a bit anyway and the solution won’t be ideal. Plus when something wears out the supply issue will be back again. In the end it’s just more economical to do it properly.
This is what we typically come around when working in a bike shop. I'll just tell the customer to get a new wheel with XDR and whoever fuck up the axle should be responsible for customer's lost in time and money and all the frustration. When there's some service I can't do I'll just tell the customer directly instead of messing around...
another option is to sell the reynolds wheelset and just buy a complete dt swiss MTB set - yes this will take time, but net-net when you are already looking at a GBP 250 hub swap, id rather just see what i can do with a proper trade. I also feel like DT Swiss make really good wheels for MTB. FWIW i run Shimano Chains and Cassettes with my Gen 1 AXS GX setup - the shimano products just last longer - with SRAM i find chain stretch happens easily within 1000km of MTB riding. I mention this because this might be the less popular good option i would go with, but you would need to ditch the SRAM chain.
I would go for rebuilding the wheel with the DT Swiss hub. In the long term it's a better option for the customer and the price difference between that and rebuilding the existing hub is not that significant.
I would go with the DT Swiss option. It is the most expensive option but would be better for the long term. Quality parts and easier to get when needed in the future.
Agree with this.👍
Always avoid any brand with a dodgy spare part service. Always. And, is it for certain that Ringlé make their own cassette bodies? Not buying from Powerway, or Novatec, or... Rgr
The most expensive option is to build an entire new wheel, and then repair the current wheel and keep it as a spare.
Gotta agree with you, I had problems with my DamilComponents hubs and after sending a rear hub for warranty I will just be getting the new dt240 and be done with it, sell this hand made fancy crap for some money and continue riding without interruptions every few months...
@@aleksarajkovic3471 "Damil Components"??? Avoid if you don´t know who makes them.. Rgr
Option 4. A new wheel for SRAM, keep the original with Shimano cassette, minor damage fixes and sell it to support the cost of new wheel.
Yeah, I super love how Paul tries his absolute best to fix things and keep them out of the landfill. But the easy button, in my book, is buying a new wheel.
yep - i'd find a cheaper wheel that has a XD(r) driver whilst waiting for the correct parts
I have a similar Option 4, but instead of fixing the current wheel with Shimano microspline, I would repair it with SRAM compatible parts and keep it as a spare.
Watching this stuff, THIS IS WHY I DO MY OWN MAINTENANCE!!!
No one will ever care as much about my bike as me, and I don't have to rush stuff out the door because I have 40 other bikes that need my time, and I'm getting paid for it...
Nice work Paul
Agreed, but some people have more money than sense right? I don't even know how a shop stuffed up the crank preload collar but its an ideal DIY job, that hub axle looks like someone put vice grips on it.
I'd definitely give the other bikeshop a piece of my mind and chase them for damage, but option 3 was a no brainer as you mentioned the hub and no parts being in stock.
As others have said, rebuild on a DT Swiss hub and ask other shop for a contribution towards the cost of that and the labour cost incurred resetting the cranks/BB and sorting out the cable routing.
This
Yes I agree with this.
Ditto the others.
No doubt rebuild the wheel whilst pursuing a refund from the bad bike shop.
Quite straightforward in my mind. Fit the DT Swiss hub, futureproofing the wheel. Take the bill to the previous bike shop and explain this is what their shoddy workmanship has cost, so you'd like them to pay for it.
And back in the real world what would you do. Nice idea though
@@knott4me561 I hear you. Thing is, any reputable shop would at least admit fault for the damage caused (for all we know they didn't charge the owner, as some sort of compensation). But in this internet age we find ourselves living in, a mention of bad workmanship on a certain channel will have a far greater impact than any empty threats. If all else fails, there's always the small claims court 😉
It’s got me thinking what I would do if one of our mechanics did that. I think I would offer to rebuild the wheel with a similar standard hub for free, and maybe offer half price on an upgrade or something.
@@Mapdec Your standards are high, which brings you another satisfied customer. Rgr
@@Mapdecthat attitude alone will set you apart from the crowd, I doubt many would offer the same
I would buy a new wheel entirely, and then seek a settlement with the bike shop. Maybe, net 1/2 the costs back and call it a day. There is a lot of very clear damage to the parts, so a settlement would probably come through.
“Other bike shop” might be found in the client’s garage 😮😂
Option 3. Rebuild the wheel as it will be a an upgrade. Future servicing and parts for the wheel will be easier to get. They could even just buy a new off the shelf wheel. For the bottom bracket I would check whether any crank spacers are required and if the correct ones have been used. For SRAM AXS Road and Gravel cranks there are two sizes road and wide. I used the wide crank but altered the crank spacers to improve my chain line and shifting, but I still make sure the spacers added up to 8 mm over all, so the preload did need over tightening.
Another for Option 3 here as you will be back up and running with a hub you can source parts for easily for future maintenance.
Hubs and freehubs even on some pretty expensive bikes are so often not detailed in a bike's specification and are often something impossible or hard to locate anywhere when they need maintenance and/or replacement parts. Add to that a lot of hub/freehub designs are poorly sealed. So the best option in your situation and for anyone buying a new bike, is to make sure hubs and freehubs are a known brand. That is the best solution for you and your customer both now but also into the future. My choice is always DT Swiss.
I'd go with the DT Swiss hubs. It is the right fix and replacement parts would be easy if needed in the future.
Definitely the DT Swiss hub option, I’d put the poor service of the first bike shop down to experience and move on.
After the investment into that new drivetrain a new hub definitely! HOPE!
We did discuss Hope. They are really on sale right now.
I own service velo mobile cycle works. Great content by the way. As a mechanic, I’d expect the customer to fetch the wheel back for a resolution. That said, I wouldn’t have used mole grips on the axle or any nuts. It’s easy, a wheel build. I remember Ringle’, nice stuff as I recall. For the mole grip mechanic, Park tools supply a cheap axle vice so you don’t need to bodge.
I would ask Ringle to make a one time exception and ship you the parts. I ran into the same problem with a well known hub manufacturer in Taiwan. When I explained the problem they took ownership and sent me the parts at no charge. Great customer service, good company!
Re-build the wheel and never go back to the previous bike shop….. this is a good lesson, find people you trust and if they are good stay with them and accept that sometimes you have to wait for quality 👍
As a bicycle shop owner, I would ask for time and get the correct parts. If you can't be given the time to find the parts, rebuild it and get it out the door asap. Love your videos.
Thanks.
Good of you not to name and shame the other shop, can imagine the temptation to do so was strong.
I know who they are, they just started up. I think they just learnt the most valuable lesson. Know when to stop and go read the manuals.
Fit the DT Swiss hub, then you know it won’t go wrong, and if it does, parts are super easy to get hold of.
Definitely rebuild the wheel. Pricier, but a better long term solution. No more worries about spare parts availability. 😊
You laid out the options well. Now have the customer choose their option. You can always figure out a way to get the parts, even if they have to be ordered through a US or Canadian shop. There's a chance we have them in stock, actually. Personally, I'd rebuild the wheel on the new, better hub. As the mechanic, I would also call the shop that did the earlier work and share you findings. The owners/managers of that shop may have no idea they put out that kind of work. I have certainly always be super appreciative when other shops have let me know when we've screwed up. And, if it's okay with your customer, let the other shop know who the customer is so they can reach out if they choose.
The only option is the new hub..hopefully the saving on the group set will cover some/ all of the cost. The other message is - it’s worth waiting for the bike shop you know and trust to do something rather than giving it to someone else. My LBS is 30 miles away and although it can be a pain once you have a relationship with them they’ll usually put themselves out and their mechanics are spot on.
Having watched your mega wheel video from last week. Rebuild with the DT swiss hub. As you said there, avail of parts means long term, should be easier to repair / replace and maintain. May as well do it right for all that nice new kit the customer got. Hopefully it will be sorted for them soon.
Option 3. DT Swiss hub and never have a dumpster fire like this again.
I would go for the wheel rebuild with a DT Swiss hub, at least that way the owner will be able to get hub spares easily. Having a hub that you can't get spares for in the UK will be potentially costly and a pain in the future.
I would also be having 'word' with the bike shop who done the bodged work as well.
It is a shame bike manufacturers use good quality rims just as a ploy to name grab, to sell bikes, when they cut costs/quality elsewhere...
They are my thoughts on the subject👍
Option 3. While Option 1 might seem interesting on the surface to see if it works, the old hub seems to have been bodged in the previous process which would be problematic even if the Shimano cassette worked. The uncertainty of "if and when" for option 2, as well as expense, would leave me in a position that a new hub with wheel rebuild would at least have the bike back to me in a reasonable amount of time.
i'd try shimano casette, just to see if claimed lack of cross-compatibility is true :) as for the hub parts - have you tried ordering freehub etc via canyon? If they are fitting them on their bikes, there is a chance that they also keep some replacement parts.
Rose also fit Sunringle wheelsets - worth checking. But most likely they will ship the whole wheelset at full retail price.
That’s a good shout. It’s worth an email for sure. 👍
New DT swiss hub + rebuild wheel. Yes, I'd definitely complain to shop that bodged it.
New hub, no question about it and any other option would just be wrong.... Heck, the customer can't even go back to his or her old drivetrain because of the absolute carnage they did on the rear hub. The other "shop" needs to compensate the customer (not your problem obviously) and that would help offset the cost of the only repair option that should ever be considered.
I would either rebuild the wheel onto the DT hub or just buy a new wheel. Lots of deals to be had there too at the moment.
New hub, or new whole wheel. It's a tad surprising that Ringle don't have a XD freehub available. Left-field option 2.1 might be to see if an XD freehub from another manufacturer happens to fit the Ringle shell... Probably not but worth a try.
Oh this is such a no brainer. Rebuild with new hub. Might seem expensive but it's a repairable fix for life. Also adds to resale price..... no brainer.
Definitely swap the hub.
Let the other shop know so they can send their mechanic on a training course!
Well I ALWAYS replaced the rear hub on EOM wheels on all of my bikes. There's always some questions to it. Particularly the rear hub, everything else most of times fine.
Just rebuild the wheel and put the one I want.
Option 4?- A whole new wheel? When the parts for the current wheel come in, it’ll be a spare.
First I would never darken the door of whatever shop did that work, holy shit, can adjust a head set properly!!!
Then I would put my old groupset on whilst waiting for a new wheel to be built up.
New hub. Always the long term fix. I'm sure he can borrow another bike for the weekend.
Option 3 - initial cost slightly higher but for any system the through life cost is significant and the DTSwiss hub will be reliable and supportable. Whoever trashed the hub previously should be held liable for the damage.
Yep, really sad that he got basically screwed by the other shop :-(
i would now go with the new Hub.
Greets
I'm a bit OCD and can build my own wheels, so I'd be straight down the re-hub route. Dependant on just how OCD I was feeling I'd rebuild the front wheel with a matching hub too.
Likely I'd go Hope rather than DT but thats a personal thing I guess.😊
New hub, probably get something cheaper than DT-Swiss, e.g. Bitex if it was for me but I guess if you're a bike shop you don't want the hub to ever come back under warranty.
If the customer wanted to save some money he could use this an excellent opportunity to learn how to build wheels.
Fit the dt hub. Then its done and can get parts easyer .
The DT hub option. It's a superior hub, given the reliability and availability of parts for them, it's the only logical option.
Would you actually reuse any of the spokes though? I've always been under the impression that they should only really be used once. I'd risk it on my own wheel, but that's a different proposition.
Rebuild the wheel w/ the Swiss DT. What happens almost every time when 'making do' is that one of the many problems is solved only to find another can't be.
Venturing into the unknown, you can't guarantee outcome, let alone long-term service and reliability. And what happens next time something goes amiss? Complexity compounds.
Save anguish and stress. Do it right by rebuilding.
nice haircut P, looks good on you. option 3 would be my recommendation to the customer and in this case I'd offer a more high end lighter hub as an option too, eg DT180 or i9 hub
🙏
Option 3 is the sensible way to go
Since the current hub manufacturer doesn't have local distribution I wouldn't rebuild it. You're just delaying the disappointment with being unable to get parts. And with the cost of a new hub, replacement spokes and labor (labour I guess would be correct) realistically there may be an Option 4 to consider: Buy a new wheel.
This. I’d just eat the upfront cost and try to see what I can get on the backend selling the wheel
New hub and get going, and i would definitely ask for compensation from the first shop. They clearly didn't know what they were doing.
Option three is the only long term holistic solution, when you factor in the supply situation.
The other repairers have been heavy handed and should have declined the job. They didn’t have the product knowledge and the supply chain knowledge. They didn’t know that they didn’t know, so they were in a no win situation, but they made it worse by continuing. They were professionally dishonest by virtue of incompetency and ignorance. The best recourse would be to ask them to watch this video, no more than that.
This is the price we all pay when the simple bicycle evolves into a very complex apparatus, not helped by an industry which sometimes deliberately introduces unnecessary own brand variants.
These Mapdec videos go a very long way to helping both pro workshops and customers, by highlighting and explaining the hard earned knowledge.
If sharing is good for business, (which I believe), then Mapdec will rightfully thrive.
Go with new hub and ask Mapdec to send a report on their findings to the other shop and ask them to pay for the damage they caused it at the very least wipe out some or all the service charge they applied to do they groupset install. Barring that, complain to the CC company and ask to stop the charges (hopefully they used a credit card).
Probably the new hub option, or maybe, reassemble the old hub with the Shimano cassette and then sell the wheels on and purchase a cheeky new set of the correct type 👍
I’d fit the new hub, but I build wheels. The ringle hub will probably continue to cause headaches, the DTSWISS is supported & can be maintained.
No question IMO, new hub for sure, do the things the right way ✌️
Fit the new hub. Will be much better going forward. Go back to the other shop & ask for partial reimbursement to compensate the damage done
The cassette is almost bigger than the wheel 😱.
I love my 3x11 ultegra with neat and small cassette, having wide range and small steps.
Fit the DT Swiss hub, and go for compensation from the original shop. File a small claims action if they refuse.
I think ultimately this is the customers decision to make, although with a lot of info from you. If you rebuild the rear wheel (my choice) would the 12 speed SRAM shifters/derailleurs shift well with the Shimano cassette? I truly do not know the answer to that, but is that part of the decision as well?. A great topic for conversation, thanks for sharing!
Those Reynolds Ringle hubs are a Wolf in sheep's clothing. I stripped one on 2nd ride and smashed the bearing/pawls onto the axle... Brand new. 2nd ride. Done.
Meanwhile, look into the reviews ( TR 309 shares the same hub ) and you'll see these Ringle hubs are a nightmare waiting to happen. Ringle now sells the Super Bubba X hubs in place of the TR and TRS.
If I were you, I'd warranty the rear hub for a Super Bubba X and have it sent out with an XD freehub body. * I concur it's hacked-mechaniced, at this point, but it was hacked-engineered to begin with. These hubs should simply be recalled.
In saying that, the DT Hub is absolutely a solid choice. It's hours of work and it's money up front, but later on when it's sitting ready to ride, like 99% of the time, you'll never need to look at the Ringle rear hub fiasco ever again.
Respectfully,
Good comment. Thank you.
New hub, no question.
Sunringle make all of reynolds branded hubs anyway and I found the freehub body on Upgrade, which was in stock. But they don't have the Axle or end caps to buy, so in the end the DT or a hope hub would be the best options for serviceability or the hub.
As for who should pay, well that's up to the customer to work out with the other shop in question.
Oh. Well done. I rang them and even the sales guy couldn’t find it.
New hub. Love my DTSwiss ... have them on three bikes!
Was going to say "just order from continental Europe" (Germany alone has at least three big shops), but apparently we have these at 130 Euros a piece🤯 (although it looks suspiciously similar to Sram X0/XX/smthelse freehub body - I would try to at least dry fit it in case I had one around)
So here's a novel idea, option 4: make the previos bikeshop buy the wheel they mangled. And offer a full replacement. Relacing hubs is just not worth it. Well, maybe somewhat economical, but definentely not from a point of respect and future-proofing.
Definitely go the DT Swiss 350. Best solution long term!
Option 3 all day long. Better in the long run.
Im a belt and braces guy, I'd be aftwr the DT Swiss hub. If I went with replaceny parts I'd be forever concerned about what would happen if it fails again down the line, if parts are that hard to get hold of.
I would go with the DT swiss option,expensive but best long term solution,perhaps a loner bike to the customer for the waiting period?
The bad bikeshop should pay for the damage done and the labour incurred.
There is too many unprofessional shops doing this sort of thing to let it slide.
Me - the perfect excuse for a new set of wheels!
Or new hub.
If the previous shop didnt check with the customer about potential damage given the lack of tools that isn't so great.
As yet another option, what about hubs from Novatec or other cheaper brands? The dt swiss 350 is somewhat over priced imho.
For me.. it depends how good the stock hub is. I have a few fancy sun ringlé hubs (I love that anodising, early 90's) at home and they are gorgeous.
If it's a good hub, I would try to get hold of spares + 1 for the future and meanwhile try to run the Shimano cassette.
If it's not as good a hub, I would relace the wheel for DTswiss, Bitex etc.. hub I know and I can get hold of spares easily.
I would source a second-hand rear wheel with a better hub to be compatible with your new setup
Well if I had the money to XX1 AXS i would go with be wheel rebuild for sure. And never use the other lbs again!!
I hate complaining, so I definitely wouldn't be going back to the last bike shop. I mean, firstly, I would have done hours of research to not get myself in that situation in the first place. But right now, I'd be fitting the DTSwiss hub. I always prefer to spend the money for a proper long term fix.
Swap the hub for a more commonly available model for sure.
Kudos, you tried very hard for the customer. I'd suggest completely new wheels but I haven't retained all the content in this clip. How did they get those wheels? (it's a rhetorical question)
I would re-build the wheel 100%. Especially if you use a DT SWISS 350 HUB.
New hub and rebuild. Definitely confront previous bike shop about their poor work.
I do not accept shortcuts that's why I'd chose the new hub. Extra cost but with the money already spent it wouldn't be the end of the world and at the end I'd enjoy the perfectly working drive train 🙂
DT Swiss option obviously and get the bike shop to foot the bill of the mess or exposed them on social media.
Rebuild, so you can swap the alu nippels for brass! It is unbelievable that a big company like Reynolds doesn’t do that from the start. But calculate a higher price than normal. Because dropping a nippel in these rims are going to take you a lot of extra time to get out!
I dropped a nipple. Luckily Jake is laid up on easy duties with a sprained ankle. I said he could go home as soon as it’s out…. I think he is still there.
100% vote for new hub build
New hub. It doesn't take long to fit one 👍🏽
New high end bike, there's no question in my mind.
New hub with XD driver, new spokes if needed and full SRAM neck to bottom.
For the long term, for the reliability, for the look of the SRAM groupset too.
I would be very upset and could go back to the first shop to ask some kind of compensation for the mess and the induced proper fixing.
The problem would be corrected at high cost in order to get the most reliable experience after.
Riding this Canyon Lux with trust issues would kill my riding pleasure... It's meant to go far from home, far from any repair shop, I can't bear a single creak noises from my bikes, I would just be pedaling while checking constantly for any unusual behaviour. I won't concentrate on the effort, I won't look at the landscape, I won't be able to relax... it would just be meaningless.
It would be different with and old bike though... but in that case, I have no doubt.
Hamg on. On the hub spec sheet, it has Hayes branding, which is an umbrella that includes Reynolds?
Yes. Well spotted.
Definitely rebuild the wheel. Send the bill to the bike shop that messed it up and or name and shame them. We believe in mapdec
It is a bit crazy that distributor or manufacturers wont just post stuff like that. Shops will and its never much bother. I tried to get some parts for a trans x dropper a while back and had the same thing.. sory we dont ship outside the US.
Definitely rebuild the wheel with a quality hub. I would ask the bike shop who made a mess of so many components to make a contribution. I assume they have not been paid for what they did. If they have he should ask for his money back!
Build it on the DT Swiss hub and go back to the other bike shop with broken parts and ask for $$$ for the damage😢
I’m guessing you guys have tried, I had to do a nukeproof dh bike with a ringle hub and hotlines managed to find me the right freehub and axle as part of some old stock, might be worth a call🤘
I did call them as Upgrade told me they were involved with Ringle. Hotlines said they have nothing.
I would go for the new DT Swiss 350 hub, it’s the best long term solution, and easily maintainable by the customer.
Im running an 11 speed XT cassette on a Sram groupset on my gravel bike. Works fine and not noticing any issues with shifting at all. Using a kmc chain in the mix as well. It is slightly different to the sram cassette , in that I had to index slightly to get it in line. Might have been the alternative hubs I built the wheels with than the fulcrums the bike originally came with. But no biggie. I used an XT cassette for reasons that the lower sram ranges, the cassette is made from granite and the XT was 100 plus grammes lighter.
If it was me, I would bin the Ringle and go 350 as the hub is so flexible with changing end caps, axle widths ( with the caps) spares and servicing is so much easier.
I do have issues with getting Sun rims for wheelchairs in the UK. I repair wheelchair wheels for a local wheelchair basketball team and when the chair flips and ends on the rims, they are dead. Being box rims is impossible to get right again. We have the situation of paying more import duties than the rim costs and they arent normal rims as they have additional drillings for the push rim to attach it to. Some things you want an easy solution but some are a nightmare .
11sp is fine. 12s needs the x-sync 2 chainrings etc.
Mediocre experience with shops and having worked in a bike shop through University, means I will tend to do this myself. You might be able to order the part through PerformanceBike or one of the larger chains in the US, if they will ship to the UK. I know a lot of people using the XT/XTR groupset with Eagle cassettes, but I don't know about an XT cassette with SRAM... I think Pinkbike did a RUclips video where they tested all the combos, relying on manufactures to be honest about interoperability isn't reliable.
I would definitely pursue some follow up with that shop as that kind of damage is unacceptable. If you can't make something fit, call the customer and advise them before pulling out the mallet.
Oh. I’m going to try and find that vid.
I wouldn’t do anything but change the hub to a DT350 or maybe even Hope.
Reason being: the time required to repair the hub (plus shipping and vat on the required parts) will add up to quite a bit anyway and the solution won’t be ideal. Plus when something wears out the supply issue will be back again.
In the end it’s just more economical to do it properly.
I would replace totally the hub with a new one.
Easy, previous shop should pay for the stuff they messed up.
DT Swiss... long term solution to avoid extra costs in the future
This is what we typically come around when working in a bike shop. I'll just tell the customer to get a new wheel with XDR and whoever fuck up the axle should be responsible for customer's lost in time and money and all the frustration. When there's some service I can't do I'll just tell the customer directly instead of messing around...
another option is to sell the reynolds wheelset and just buy a complete dt swiss MTB set - yes this will take time, but net-net when you are already looking at a GBP 250 hub swap, id rather just see what i can do with a proper trade. I also feel like DT Swiss make really good wheels for MTB.
FWIW i run Shimano Chains and Cassettes with my Gen 1 AXS GX setup - the shimano products just last longer - with SRAM i find chain stretch happens easily within 1000km of MTB riding. I mention this because this might be the less popular good option i would go with, but you would need to ditch the SRAM chain.
That haircut is a conundrum. 😯
I’m enjoying having hair while it lasts. 😊
The DT Swiss is the only real, long term option.
I would go for rebuilding the wheel with the DT Swiss hub. In the long term it's a better option for the customer and the price difference between that and rebuilding the existing hub is not that significant.