SEPTA or MBTA? (Philadelphia vs Boston Transit)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Which transportation agency do you think is better, more efficient etc and why? These two U.S. transit authorities are the only transportation agencies that operate all of the five major types of transit vehicles: regional (commuter) rail trains, "heavy" rapid transit (subway/elevated) trains, light rail vehicles (trolleys), electric trolleybuses, and motor buses.
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Even as a Canadian Citizen. I admit that MBTA's Green Line & SEPTA's Trolley system, especially the routes that travel in the trolley subway @2:40 are my personal favourite Trolley/Light Rail systems in the US ☺️☺️
they are nice systems. one of the few first generation. but while the MBTA Green line is kinda more of an Light rail than a Streetcar, i prefer SEPTA since its more oldschool with single ended rigid body cars
I think the "T" Green Line is great. I even have a HO scale model of a trolley, only a Boeing unit, unfortunately.
Yes! This is an interesting feature of those two system. As a matter of fact, I was so confused of why they run "buses" in a tunnel? When I asked a Bostonian why? He reply laughing, you must be from NYC. Which my reply was yes. This was 1989.
I think it's important to note that both Boston and Philadelphia's commuter/regional rail systems skew heavily westward from the city center. The difference is that Philly actually has eastern suburbs that are underserved, while Boston has only water to its east.
Yes, but those eastern suburbs are in a different state, and SEPTA is a Pennsylvania agency, so operating out of state presents its own challenges.
@@moishglukovsky Somehow, Metra, Metro-North, New Jersey Transit, MARC, VRE, MBTA, CTRail, and yes, even SEPTA manage to operate outside the state from which they are operated without major issues, so I don't buy that argument. (Metra in IN, WI; Metro-North in NJ, CT; NJT in NY, PA; MARC in DC, WV; VRE in DC; MBTA in RI; CTRail in MA; and SEPTA in NJ, DE.)
I would say SEPTA. The commuter rail is electrified, the PCCs are modernized, the light rail is built to standards in which it would operate on streets with narrow lanes and less traffic and right capacity. Even if Boston still has trolleybuses to this day but will go sooner, the trolleybus is hybrid and the SEPTA trolleybus is fully electric. I wouldn't say SEPTA is better (as I don't want to debate, dispute or misjudge info) but rather my favourite.
Our PCCs aren't that modern yet, but soon.
SEPTA might have more infrastructure, but the MBTA consistently provides higher service levels across all modes. Boston also has a larger and much busier metro system, and the Green Line has nearly full dedicated lanes (although it’s still very slow as it goes not have signal priority). It all depends on what’s being compared, but I’d definitely say the MBTA runs their system better.
SEPTA trolleybuses have diesel engines too.
I used to repairer the vehicles in Boston. Boston has 2 different “Trackless Trolleys”. The EBT, which is fully catenary (wire) dependent , and the DMA, which is provided electricity by a catenary or by a diesel turning a genset, meaning it can operate independently from the catenary.
Boston does have those trolley buses with the doors on the wrong side. That is cool.
It is worth commenting on the scene you depict at 7m 18s of a trolleybus lowering its poles and then continuing using a diesel motor. In European cities which have retained trolleybuses, eg Zurich, Salzburg, Brno and Bratislava, a similar scene is now common, except the vehicle will continue its journey using batteries which were charged up while running under the wires.
Interesting. Europe is just better than us, we’ve heard it a million times.
Tbh I like them both they have a retro and nostalgic feel when I see them
Agreed, SEPTA's Trolleys look like Toronto's CLRV Streetcars & MBTA's Green Line Trainset with the 100% high floor LRV look like Toronto's ALRV Streetcars
@@lvalledor3440 that's why it looks so familiar
@@lvalledor3440 and the SEPTA LRVs and CLRVs are both 50ft long, trolley pole operation, based on PCC designs, foot pedal controls, and even sound similar.
Other points:
SEPTA commuter rail is fully electrified.
SEPTA commuter rail successfully joined two separate legacy systems 40 years ago; consequently every commuter line runs through every Center City Philadelphia station. Boston, NYC, Chicago can only dream of such things today. Boston had an opportunity to connect North and South Stations during the Big Dig, but did not. A lost opportunity!
The Philadelphia metro region straddles two states (or even three) in a way that Boston does not; consequently, transit issues become interstate matters. PATCO's Lindenwold Line, NJTransit Atlantic City Line, and NJTransit River Line (not to mention the several NJTransit bus routes that terminate in Philadelphia) are critical parts of regional transit infrastructure; despite being run by a different agencies, they cannot be divorced from a REGIONAL transit perspective.
All that said, I wish the many agencies were more integrated and especially that fare systems were interoperable.
I think NY is at least (somewhat) correcting this problem with LIRR at GCS and Metro North.
But its still strange that North Boston trains never see Southern Boston trains.
They are at least connecting the Green line.
septas commuter rail is only fully electrified because they stopped service on non electrified portions lmao
I lived in both cities. Both lack good 24 hour service for their subway (or at least they did not have it in Boston when I lived there). As far as cleanliness Boston wins. Boston T is far better than Septa's EL and Broad street line. I rode the El in the 80s. People who complain about it now do not know what they are talking about. SEPTA's inability to have their busses or even trollies to show up on time is unacceptable
I favor Philly since I am a Philadelphian.
Each city is blessed with many options and we could share with each other. Philly could use articulated trams. Boston could electrify commuter rail.
Buses in both cities could be electric/battery powered.
Thanks Tim for sharing😀😀
I favor Boston because I am a Philadelphian
@@blackman7437 Thanks for your input. Each city has plus and minus features and. each could learn from the other.
For commuter rail I would say septa bc they have electrified and frequent regional rail
for subway I would say MBTA bc they have more subway lines plus coverage
Not to mention Septa successfully managed to join two rail networks plus to major stations together which boston is struggling to do and septa has more streetcar style lines then mbta (only has 1 others are in reservations)
Not to mention (for MBTA) (almost) every public transportation service in boston is under the MBTA name that's why they have been able to extend their subway and light rail lines next to commuter rail lines Not to mention the mbta also has bigger trains for its light rail and also runs two to three car light rail trains
In simple terms nether is better they both have their strengths and weaknesses
Very interesting fact. But when I rode their broad street subway lines, I thought I was back in NYC. It felt so much like the IND. They even had express service. Nothing in Boston reminds me of NYC.
@@qolspony “Nothing in Boston reminds me of NYC” is a good thing
@@Improj69 why?
@@qolspony I mean cause Boston doesn’t want to be similar to NYC and I guess it’s working out
I would probably go for MBTA because the Heavy rail,Light rail,Commutter rail show a color of the subway line they are named off. But Septa would be a place I would go to in the future.
I would say SEPTA. MBTA has a great network, but i like how SEPTA has a lot of small Systems like: the Regional Rail, the 2 subway Lines, the Heritage Streetcar line 15, the sub-surface lines, Media-Sharon Hill lines, that strange 3rd rail single car line, PATCO and it has some trolleybus
PATCO isn't SEPTA. It's a subway train ran by the Delaware River Port Authority and most Philadelphians don't even consider it a Philadelphian subway train.
@@Machodave2020 PATCO is not SEPTA. It's DRPA.
The third rail line is the Norristown High-Speed Line (Route 100). It's a former grade separated railway line that was upgraded over time.
@@blue9multimediagroup typo, 'is' is supposed to be 'isn't'. I'm from Philly, and anyone from Philly knows that the PATCO isn't SEPTA.
It's s shame that PATCO isn't integrated into SEPTA.
Been to both cities but I couldn't tell you what I like better. Found both systems useful when I visited.
As a person from Philadelphia, we need articulated lrvs here. The would do nicely here.
SEPTA is in the process as we speak. ;-)
When I work for the MBTA I work on the Green Line when it was still the PCC’s and the Boeing LRV then the rebuild PCC ‘s with the first group of the Type -7’ ‘s
( # 3600 - # 3649 ) then I work on the Blue Line driving the Pullman’s the St. Louis Cars then the Hawker cars from Canada the buses were the GM New Looks AMG coaches Flixible coaches and the new RTS -4’s from GM the trackless trolley coaches were the Flyer E - 800 models the commuter rail service was a mix of the old and the new equipment
I would have added the Philadelphia suburban streetcar lines to the streetcar/light rail and compared them to the MBTA Mattapan/Ashmont line, since both the Philadelphia suburban streetcar lines and the Mattapan/Ashmont line are feeders to a major rapid transit line. Maybe even put the Norristown line into this comparison, even though it uses a different type of equipment. I was going to say compare them to the Riverside branch (and in the future the Medford branch) of the Green Line, but those are different in that the suburban lines go right into the city center instead of being feeders to a rapid transit line.
SEPTA. I have dedicated more time to learning about it and they have amazing history. They have another thing that I find to be really important: Unique electrification
I have never been, and unfortunately, am unlikely to go to Philadelphia as age takes its toll, but I just have to praise Boston, which I have visited several times as part of my employment and on vacation.
I love the city and its people.
The MBTA transport system is really good, both the subways within Boston and to Cambridge and also the Commuter Rail to Salem, Rockport etc. (the line to Providence had not opened by my last visit) so I cast my biased vote in favour of MBTA
SEPTA got lucky with that commuter rail system being electrified, but if Boston electrifies, it will probably be way better since the patterns that they are running now and the patterns that are going to run later are actually pretty good. Also it will be electrified with standard voltage and stuff I guess
This was posted on my birthday, what a coincidence
Awesome video, Tim. Thank you.
As a native Philadelphian, I hate to do it, but I have to give the edge to MBTA based on one thing alone, investment. MBTA invests in their system. While SEPTA has a better infrastructure, for years, it wasn't that SEPTA couldn't invest in it - they wouldn't for whatever reason. However, it looks like that is changing. The one area, infrastructure-wise, where they do have MBTA (and Long Island Railroad/Metro North, Metra and everyone else) beat is SEPTA's last great investment: he Center City Commuter Tunnel (built between 1978 and 1984 and opened in '84) that connects the two former rail infrastructures of the Reading Railroad and Pennsylvania/Penn-Central Railroad that allows for continuous travel through Center City (our downtown) and beyond.
SEPTA and their financial situations caused for some of their infrastructure to not be as invested as MBTA. SEPTA being funded by the state has always gotten less money from their peers (MBTA, MTA, NJT). SEPTA has been lately as you noted upping the infrastructure investment. I think it was at $6 Billion , now it might be at $4 Billion. Slowly but surely.
Boston. It’s simple.. smaller city with higher ridership and more routes that has to mean something
To my view, the MBTA Type 8 cars' front is designed similar to SEPTA trolley's. Yes there are differncies of course in whole (the obvious one is the number of axes), but their front mask, location of lights are similar.
As a foreigner, I like SEPTA trolley cars more. I don't like trolleybuses of either. I cannot say anything about routes, because didn't lived there. But something tells me that the routes net is either reducing or at least not increasing in the both cities.
Btw, very interesting format, thank you for the video!
Beatiful images friend, thumbs up, greetings 😉👏👍👍
Does the MBTA still shut down at 1 AM? That left me stranded a few times. Also funny when the Rocky Horror Picture Show used to have midnight showings at the old Exeter Theater, ending well after 1.
Been there, done that. 40 years ago, far back in the "pre-Uber" era.
Fun fact the mbta had tested ttcs now retired clrvs along the green line. They did this because they were having issues with a batch of lrts they weren't receiving.
Any photos of that?
I noticed you said there were 5 septa trolley lines. Aren't there actually 7 lines if you include routes 101 and 102 from 69th Street Transportation Center? I actually love both systems.
There are but splitting them since those routes do not serve city proper...
@@timosha21 Oh yeah that is true.
It's actually 8 trolley lines. Did you forget 15 was restored
@@dysontyronetd Route 15 was not counted towards the subway surface trolleys - its counted in the PCC category :)
@@timosha21 I'm saying trolleys in general
y'all constantly bring up in the comments that SEPTA has successfully joined two commuter rail systems, when MBTA did the exact same thing. B&M and Penn Central both got combined within the our area to form the commuter rail (even though that's not the way it was supposed to go) you see, Boston's original plan was for the commuter rail to disband and the idea was that the MBTA would extend their subway routes along the commuter rail line up until the end of the metro area (anything within route 128) but because a lot of the "white flight" was happening and they were complaining about noisy, big rapid transit stations a lot of these extensions fell pretty short then what they were supposed to be. one such example is the orange line which only goes from Oak Grove to Forest Hills, it was originally intended for the line to go from West Roxbury to Reading Center. yet it was cut short due to the reasons specified above, and our commuter rail was kept in order to keep everyone happy. As for electrification and for a unified ms system, there is plans to start to get the gears moving in order for that. South Coast Rail that's currently under construction, Phase 2 will see Catenary up for the entire extension of the Stoughton Line. North-South Rail Link, colloquially known as the big dig 2 is also working on seeing a design soon. Under the Biden Administration it isn't far from potentially becoming a reality. But that's all I have to say.
Being a Bostonian, it's quite ouvious what im picking
Νομίζω ότι τα συστήματα είναι ισοδύναμα. Αν θα έπρεπε να διαλέξω μεταξύ των δύο θα διάλεγα τα συστήματα της Philadelphia - SEPTA διότι έχουν λίγο πιο σύγχρονα οχήματα από εκείνα της Βοστώνης. Επίσης ο προαστιακός τους σιδηρόδρομος είναι ηλεκτροκινούμενος. Επίσης εκεί λειτουργεί η εξαιρετική σιδηροδρομική γραμμή Norristown High Speed Line και η επίσης εξαιρετική Media - Sharon Hill Line. Πολλά συγχαρητήρια και στις δύο εταιρίες μετακίνησης, οι οποίες πρέπει από τώρα να σχεδιάσουν πως να βελτιώσουν και και πως να μεγαλώσουν τα δίκτυά τους.
To have the bold vision to connect two legacy systems and through run service is what gives SEPTA the edge for me. The septa commuter rail service has more ridership, more ridership per mile, and more stations than MBTA. That should say something. Begrudgingly I admit that the broad street line and market Frankfort like are not well integrated. I also admit though it is cool to have an interurban type service like the high speed line, how much more useful would it be for the el to simply operate into delco instead?
Both!
its beautiful! 😍
I'd say it's a toss up. Philly on the commuter rail, but Boston on the subways and light railways/streetcars.
Philly's commuter rail is a unified and electrified system, except when I visited it didn't have weekend service unlike the MBTA. The MBTA commuter rail suffers from diesel locomotives and two separate networks connected only by a surface freight line. Big missed opportunity when the MBTA was kept out of the Big Dig so the couldn't link the two terminals back then.
Boston has the better light railway and subway systems by far and the older cars shown are being replaced. Philly otoh when I was there had subways that SMELLED so I refused to go in. BIG demerit for a big city transit system. Plus Boston's subway, light railway, and busses and trackless trolleys are all color coded so you know which line you're on.
Boston DOES have comparable lines to the SEPTA Media and Sharon Hill lines, they're called the the Green Line D Riverside Branch and the Mattapan High Speed Trolley. Unlike SEPTA the MBTA runs two car trains on the Riverside, both cars articulated!
In subway I say septa cuz on the market Frankfort line it has modern subway stations it goes really fast between 30th Street and 15th Street And on the broad Street Line there 3 lines on the BSL 1 there is a local on the whole route 2 there an express that goes from fern rock to walnut locust 3 the broad Ridge spur that goes from fern rock via express and head to Chinatown then 8th st.
For trolly I MBTA cuz they are extending there green line plus they have 2 car trollys and used to have a elevated line that went to lechmere but replaced by a new lechmere station. For high speed and surburban I say septa cuz it has 3 lines and MBTA has 1 with it the mattapan line I kinda wish they have. More lines that went to Braintree, And Readville and forest hills for commuter I say septa cuz it has a S- bahn ommuter system and it’s electrified but MBTA don’t have its commuters connected
Tough choice🤔... Both are good; both are bad; but both are expansive...
If I'm gonna based this off "reliability" then Philly (SEPTA) is the best.
Next video idea: CTA vs MTA New York.
Excellent video!
MBTA❤❤❤
Do MTA or CTA? (New York City vs Chicago Transit) Please
I would say mbta
Next one needs to San Francisco Bay Area vs Los Angeles
By transit SF bay area wins easily... more density...
@@timosha21
Well Boston [MBTA] seems to be up to speed replacing trolleybuses 🚎 with electric buses (Hopefully the Opportunity charged versions with stop charging or shorter sections of wire) as these give greater flexibility than fully wired lines.
I like MBTA's U-Bahn style tramway (Green Lines) while SEPTA's trams are nostalgic 77 passengers is a pretty low capacity for light rail or trams.
I also like MBTA'S commuter rail. It covers a range of destinations beyond Boston (Providence,RI Plymouth Ma etc) and SEPTA regional rail has a confusing array of lines but no consistency in frequency.
Oh and like my city. City of Plymouth, Eng. UK Boston has ferries.
They hold more than 77 ppl. That's wrong.
RIP MBTA Trolleybusses,
I'm from Boston but have riden Philly subway. Philly is pretty good, but not as safe.
Septa
SEPTA considers the Norristown High Speed Line metro even though it’s suburban
Septa train ain't start looking like that until year 2000
I choose mbta
Once again you forgot to include BRT; I'm referring to the T's Silver Line and SEPTA's Blvd. Direct.
MBTA won that fight.
I love SEPTA honestly, and I want SEPTA to win that, but the Boulevard Direct is a big let down and disappointment in terms of BRT and it's so much of a let down, I wouldn't call it BRT, I would just call it an express bus. The stops are shitty and a mess, it doesn't have it's own lane (since it runs on the boulevard, I'm not gonna complain about that one too much), and the route isn't even articulated anymore. And they decided to use those stupid NOVAs (which I hate) instead of using the New Flyer XDE40s (or they could've gotten a articulated New Flyer class like DE60LF or XDE60).
The last time I actually used the Boulevard Direct for more than going down more than one stop, the bus had a slightly popped out window frame and trash was everywhere. And these bus wasn't articulated either since they stopped that.
The only good thing is that the bus has a new livery but that's about where all complements end.
MBTA wins that round. I'm not from Boston (or anywhere in the Massachusetts Bay) but based on the way MBTA is, the T's silver line is probably a little problematic too, but at least I can call it BRT.
@@Machodave2020 You're right about MBTA Silver Line. Where SL ought to have dedicated lanes -- the tunnel under the harbor to/from the airport -- it doesn't. Imagine the time savings if those buses had a dedicated lane!
SEPTA needs some ferries.
Where would they operate? On the delaware river?? Philly is not exactly a water based city
I wonder if the trolley in Philly should be:
TrolleyBus Rapid Transit and not trolley rapid transit
Full light rail
What?
@@blue9multimediagroup I want opinions as to what the trolleys in Philly should really be. Should they be operated more like buses or more like trains and not in between?
👍
I haven’t watched the video, nor have I ever been to Boston, but MBTA wins! Nothing could be worse than SEPTA and still be operational🙄
La linia verde debe seguir trabajando no permitan dar lugar a otro transporte
SEPTA for electrified commuter rail. MBTA has none.
I wish south jersey had an electrified commuter rail line from Trenton to Pennsville though connecting all towns & suburbs in between. That would be a great alternative to the dreadful turnpike.
I toke septa when I was 4 now lm 8
MBTA for ever!
Agreed
Hands down Boston got nicer looking trains. They are ahead of much bigger players and have been this way for some time.
Mbta
Septa.
SEPTA LRVs hold more than 77 ppl. There are 51 seats so they're def standing more than 26 ppl. Try again.
I’ve been to both cities and rode both transits-For me, Boston wins hands down, historic city, great transit. Philadelphia is a crime ridden dirty but historic city with a filthy and dangerous system.
MBTA ftw.
Edit: I do hate the fact that they are doing away with the trolleybuses for the gadgetbahn electric buses. Watch Alan Fishers vid on the subject: ruclips.net/video/SB9EARKvCTc/видео.html
i should say neither of them
The T is better
Why is the MBTA audio louder than the SEPTA one?
Bias?
What Bias?
Septa