This has been the best explanation of radiant heating, manifolds, placement and overall system. You are so easy to understand. Thank you for posting this.
I'm in the Army and have been in and out of South Korea from 1998. I learned about radiant floor heating back then when I visited someone's apartment in the winter. Warm floors are so nice in the winter. It's cool to see that people are doing this in the U.S. as well. Will definitely want to do this after I retire from the Army and settle down somewhere.
Thank you for putting out amazing DIY videos that highlight all the important parts without wasting my time with unnecessary chatter and video footage.
Good Video ! Buddy your explanation/ Narrative is very clear and the camera angles / lighting are easy to see what you are doing many years ago in the early 1980s my best freind asked me to give him a hand doing water lines in a crawl space under his home these were ru outside because we lived in South Florida and it was the first time ive ever seen Pex Tubing i was impressed and over the years ive owned several Campers and Boats that used the same system i am hoping to install Radiant Floor Heating in one of my next homes and i have had a general interest about it for years as. I like the overall concept and theory about it BTW i no longer live in Florida ( in case you were wondering ) why i would be concerned about heat as a rule Florida homes dont concentrate much. On heating usually they put in reverse cycle Airconditioning or AC with heat strips inside them to have something to take a cold chill once or twice each year you may need to use it some of the older houses used to put a Kerosene heater in a closet Without really any way of distributing the heat throughout the house before Pex many homes had Copper water lines running in the exterior of them as Freezing isn’t much of a concern in Florida unless you are a Orange Farmer because a Frost can hurt your tree production
Your video is really good! A few things have changed since you posted your video. My recommendations would be to use PEX-A without the brass fittings. This will reduce cost and increase flow. Another option will be to increase the pipe size to 3/4 and still use the fitting, but since the fitting I.D. is now larger the flow will be increased.
My understanding is that you have to use PEX B because of the oxygen barrier characteristics of pex b over pex a. From my reading, it appears that pex a allows for oxygen transfer into the water, which can hurt a boiler system. If that is what is used for heating the water.
Great Video! I have that same manifold, that 1" thread ALWAYS leaks like crazy right by the ball valve. It's almost like the threads aren't deep enough for the tapered threads to really seal themselves.
@@appalachiandiy2415 Yea I tried teflon. Mega tape, and two different types of pipe dope. Nothing worked. I got the manifold off of amazon. So who knows if its even standard. It might be metric. The flow meters are in Liters not gallons. I ended up using a silicone tape to wrap over it and seal it. Its pretty ghetto right now but it works. Holds pressure fine. I'll be rebuilding it after the winter. Someone mentioned to me a blue pipe dope, apparently it will seal anything.
hello sir , i was wondering if there are some calculation's we could make that enable's us to know how many manifold port's we need in regard's to the total space of the house , say for example i have an open space of 70 Square metre how many port's do i need to cover that whole area . thank you .
Ill try and do some converting here 70 sq M is roughly 750 sq feet. You should not run your loops/zones any longer than 300 linear feet (90 meters) Joist bays are 16" (0.4 M) on center here in the states. If your room is perfectly square it would be 27'X27' (8.4X8.4 Meters) There should be 20 joist bays in this area if using 16" centers. You will run a loop down each bay so we can multiply 20x2 and it is 27' long so it would be (20 joist bays X 2 runs per joist X27 foot long joist bay) = 1080 linear feet of pex or 330 Meters of Pex. You will need a minimum of 3 Ports. this does not include the amount of pex needed to get from the manifold to the start of your loop and back again. You should run a 4 port to be on the safe side but 3 is the bare minimum
would these calculations be the same on a 750 sq foot area embedded in a concrete slab and what kind of barrier do you recommend below the concrete. Also is it better to use 3/4 inch tubing? thanks Kevin
If I have three different runs of PEX but one thermostat and pump, can I have the bedroom at 65 degrees and the other two runs, one above the subfloor and crawl space, and the other embedded in a cement slab at 70 degrees? Would I just turn down the flow going to the bedroom? As far as I know you can’t just drop the heat in the house at night then crank it up in the morning.
Hi there! great video. I have a question...I installed the pex system with my existing boiler. i have a mixing valve to keep the temp down for the heated floors. the problem is i think the water is too hot. the cold side of the valve is hooked up to the return of the broiler. if I remove that and hook up cold water to the valve wouldn't that be a lot of water waste? and on the return of that water input where does that water go in my boiler?? thanks for any help.
meterfamily, the first thing you should try is to lower your thermostat on your boiler. I turned mine down as far as it would go. (140 i think) doing this is the easiest way to control your temp, which in turn will give you a cooler temp on your return line for your mixing valve. You cant add external cold water without having somewhere for it to go. Think of underfloor heat as a semi closed system. the only time water is added is if you have a leak or trapped air is forced out.
Basic physics, Heat rises, and always will. Will heat my basement and try not to let the floor stop the flow of heat. If the floor is too well insulated I will cut air ducts as needed. + I like a warm basement.
Great video. The only info I needed was what you left out 😂. What is the pump/thermostat/heater set up? This is the most expensive aspect, starting around $3,000 for something preconfigured. DIY explanation of that would be 👍🏻 great. Thanks 🙏 A text reply no video needed unless your just bored but that’s doubtful. Keep up the good work.
Did you connect this radiant floor system directly into your existing heating system without other modifications? I have one heating zone - baseboard heating on my main floor with basement underneath - that I am considering replacing. Can I simply remove the existing baseboard radiators, install the pex tubing and manifold as demonstrated in your video, and connect to the existing Taco zone valve?
Appreciate this video am.looking to do the same for the 2 main rooms in my home. I do have a question about the hot water supply to the radiant heat manifold - are you utilizing the hot water straight from the boiler HW outlet via circulator, to the manifold, or using a thermostatic valve to reduce the HW supply temp? Thnaks
Straight from the boiler. No mixing valve or anything. I do have the boiler turned all the way down to its lowest setting. I do have a Q&A video about common questions, you can find it on my page
@@appalachiandiy2415 I am about to start install. Took us a while to get here because we had to have asbestos removed, cut out all the old pipes, and repair damaged joists.
Supply and return are both at the manifold...so I'm not understanding what the difference of working from supply to return, or return to supply. The pipe distance will be exactly the same. What am I missing?
Dont fully understand what your trying to ask but here is a video that may help. ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html Its a couple common questions I get and answers to them. It does go over how its plumbed up and more on the supply and return. if you have more questions after the Q&A video feel free to post again
Appalachian DIY, I am thinking about doing this in my basement for the first floor. Was this a compliment to your existing baseboards? Or did you use as the primary source of heat? I understand that the tile flooring above will be very warm, but worry about the heat making it through the hardwood floors/subfloors.
I have a pellet stove to supplement if needed. I wouldnt worry about to much about hardwood or even laminate. Carpet is probably the hardest to get heat through with this type of system because of the thick padding plus a plush carpet. Both of these will act like insulation and hinder heat transfer
so how does this manifold connect to the furnace or the hot water heater. that is what I am confused about. what powers the water through the lines and where does the water go back into when it returns. if the answer to that is "the manifold" then where does it go from there to heat back up? Thanks for your time, you video is very well organized and the extra explanation and diagrams are very helpful. tip for next time, use the software that you made the video with and crank up the volume on the clips where you are speaking. i had to increase and decrease the volume several times throughout the video during each transition. With that said, overall this was a great video.
Good questions. The water is heated in my oil fired water boiler. The hot water goes from the furnace to the manifold supply side via a 1" pex line. Once at the manifold it gets distributed from the supply side out to "zones or legs" it returns from the zones into the return side on the manifold. Once it gets to the return side it returns to the Furnace via another 1" pex line, this cold water gets reheated in the boiler and starts all over again. There is a circulator pump pushing the cold water into the furnace and powers the entire system. the pump is conected to a controler that has a thermostat in a room in the house to tell the boiler to fire and controls the circulator pump.
Hello. Thanks for the nice video. I have a question. How do you get rid of the trapped air in the pex under floor? The manifold is mounted lower than piping. Is there any additional valve of some kind you use to bleed the air out? Thank you.
@@appalachiandiy2415 Thanks for the fast reply. Where exactly is the air vent located on your system? I had no choice but to mound main header and flow control lower than PEX tubing under the floor, and now have problem with air being trapped in the tubing. Regards.
@@ehot9730 when mine was installed we had a big plastic garbage can full of glycol and a high volume pump to circulate with a return to the can . The circulation pumps in the system will never flow enough to evaluate the air , after the install and evacuation we put a bleed valve on a reservoir after the system pump to trap any air before it gets to the in floor lines
also interested in info on if you're using single pump with zone valves, or multiple pumps to support each zone. do you have any info on balancing the system once installed and purged?
single pump. There are flow rate valves on the manifold so you can control how much heated water gets to a certain zone. The flow rate valves will help with balancing
Good detail on the manifold setup and how to install to underside of floor. But for someone without a boiler how do they make this work? In my case I have an electric forced air furnace, any thoughts of components needed to heat water with it? And what makes the water flow in a closed loop system?
Paul Tiller. Your out of luck with heating water. its not easily possible with a forced air system. I am working on a conversion for my pellet stove(which is forced air) to heat water to circulate through my system but its is heavily modified. Water is pumped through the system using a circulator pump. I have a Taco pump on my system
That is very possible....Run copper tubing around your chimney the convection of the water will force it through the tubing. I have a Bro-in-Law that heated his Quonset with this same thought.
I have baseboard hot water, I would like to put in PEX radiant heat. Do I need a PEX manifold or can I use the existing copper manifold an install a shut off valve with gauge and air valve?
If you already have a manifold that you can use to separate the loops that is just fine. I don't really know what you mean by an air valve though. Without circulation pumps or regulation valves on each loop, you're at the mercy of "path of least resistance" when you push the water through your system. some loops may be hotter than others if you can't control the flow.
I'm going to have a new build home & wanted to ask the builder to install radiant floor heating at least in the bathrooms. In your opinion, how much would a contractor/plumber charge to install the radiant floor heating. Thanks!
Lisa Hin thats a hard question to answer. if your just doing bathrooms it might be better to go with electric instead of hydronic floor heat. if you put the money into doing the bathroom why not do the whole house? it also depends on how your going to heat the water and your square footage of the bathrooms. Send me more details to my email at AppalachianDIY@gmail.com so I can better help you. Thanks!
+Lisa , you should also consider doing the basement in radiant heating., the cost of doing in the construction stage is far cheaper than doing it afterwards, if you indeed are doing a basement since the basement is by far the coldest. The beauty of it all is if you want to get a little dirty it can be done by yourself or your hubby and you can save ALOT of money. Plus since heat rises, the basement is now heating (to a certain extent) the rest of the house. I would suggest a On Demand water heating System for the Basement Radiant heating and it can double as a heater for your shower/kitchen.
I'm putting together a parts list from scratch and would like your input on your boiler setup. Do you have a controller already in place for your thermostats? Are you running a single pump for the whole system? Is your boiler modulating? A layout video of the system would be very helpful! Good luck on the channel
I only have a single thermostat that controls the boiler. Its in the coldest room in the house that way its always warm enough in there. The Manifold has control valves that lets you control the flow rate to each zone. Im running a single pump(using the same one that was in place for my baseboard heat) I might make another video showing the layout
Was all your PEX the Oxygen Barrier type? And how well did the system work for you since the install? Were you getting noticeable heating through the sub floor and tiles?
The pex is the oxygen barrier type. It worked quite well and Im very happy with it. The room above the radiant floor heat is the bathroom. It has ceramic tile and its is nice and toasty when its running. It feels nice, especially when you're on your bare feet.
@@appalachiandiy2415 So after two years, are you still happy with it? I'm sure the floors feel nice, but does it actually heat your home (or at least this room you did it in)?
I understand you use a pellet heating source as well is it the only heating source besides the radiant heated floors? I have a on demand water heater it will pump 9.8 gallons per minute I only have one bathroom in my 2 bed house do u think this is enough to warm and supply my house with warm water
at max the manifold was doing about 10 gal min. on a 5 manifold. it might be ok if its running without anything else need hot water. I dont know how you would plumb it up as its a closed loop system and your bathrooms are not.
By any chance do you connect the manifold direct to your heating system ? Do you need an additional pump? ( I have a similar heating system to yours, I use oil to heat my house) Or you just connect the inlet and outlet to an existing loop?
I had baseboard heat before I turned it into a radiant heat system. I used the original trunk line to supply the manifold. Watch this: ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html
I noticed a lot of nails poking through ceiling in your video, I am going to have the deal with the same issue, can they just be hammered flat or do they need to be cut flush?
I’m halfway through installing this same setup (will be doing 4 zones for lower floor). I didn’t see you include a pump or mixing valve...was told that they were both a must. Did you keep adding to the system and is there a follow to this video? Thanks!
I have a single pump running my system. if you have 4 separate zones you will need 4 unless you use the flow regulator on the manifold to adjust flow like I did. I didn't use a mixing valve because I didn't think it necessary to heat water up just to cool it down. I just lowered my furnace to the lowest temp and ran it like that. Works great that way. I couldn't find a good reason to use a mixing valve but if you have some info on it I would love to hear about it. Here is a "follow up" vid ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html Thanks for the questions!
@@appalachiandiy2415 so what you are saying is keep the baseboard but tap the radiant off of them? thats a great idea. would the loop length limits stay the same(300ft)? or would the baseboard count for something more than just its length?
@@mikakey55 you could keep the baseboard and tap off of it but i would figure the baseboard as part of the 300' length. So if your base board is 100' your pex loop should be 200'
Yes it’s possible, but the baseboard and radiant operate at different temperatures. It will require running the boiler at a higher temp(180) for the baseboard and mixing down with a thermostatic mixing valve for the radiant(130)
A few tips from one who has been in the biz a couple of few decades.... radiant does not heat air well at all, so your "room" is a little deceptive , and radiant thermostats are hung lower and other diffs.... If you do have to use a "remote manifold" you are supposed to in sulfate the pipe (pex) and also you should do it to and from the loops.. There are limits on lengths of loops according to size of pex . Make sure you use heat pex, not aqua pex, as the former has an oxygen barrier. There IS a difference no matter what the guy who is selling it to you says. Without that oxygen barrier you will rust your boiler out quick.
rob Semprini thanks for the tips. I used 1/2" pex and yes i used oxygen barrier pex. I tried to keep the loops under 330 ft runs. What do you consider a remote manifold? Are you saying to insulate the supply and return lines to the manifold and from the furnace?
Usually, yes. There are exceptions, depending on if you are using a three way mixing valve off your existing boiler zones to pipe it, as is usually the case. That valve is set for temp AT the valve, so if you are traveling to the manifold, yes, insulate. But if you are using your mix valve at the manifold, like off a flat plate or marine heat exchanger, then it is not as important . If memory serves, pretty sure the max loop for 3/8 tube is 250 and 1/2 is 350 , so you should be good. Used to be when you bought a box, it was only the length it was rated for, but then it was being made by a lot of other manufacturers getting in on it ., selling in "bulk". Better for the supply house, worse for the plumber.
Andrzej Chrzastowski you can do it either way. I wanted some heat in the basement for a hybrid water heater that is why i didnt insulate. If you want all the heat to go up into your rooms, then go ahead and insulate so your not losing heat into the crawl space/basement.
Awesome and informative video. The only question I have is how does the furnace fit into this scenario? Is it like a hot water heater or a standard furnace or what? I understand hot water being what heats the floors....but I’m a bit lost on the “furnace” part. Thanks for this great video! Super duper job!
Most forced air are vents at or on the floor outside walls with cold air returns on the floor of inside walls. So the forced air circulates thru the room (you don't have that in your drawing). The picture is only accurate on the radiant side if the heat from the floor is continuously producing heat--if so your heat bill might reflect higher numbers. If it turns off, eventually both sides will be identical. Issue with heat is not with how it's generated but how it escapes/reduces in the home (insulation and venting issues). However, if you keep feet, hands and head warm you can withstand colder room temps.
Ill agree with you partially, return and supply are usually at the ceiling height and floor level. It all depends on where your system is mounted. No matter if your warm air is pushed in from a bottom register it will still rise to the ceiling, can't change physics. I think the best way to compare hvac to radiant is what you are heating. HVAC is heating air and radiant is heating your floor. Air will dissipate heat quickly while the substance of your flooring continues giving off heat after it has been heated up. Thanks for your reply
@@appalachiandiy2415 I will agree with you, sir. :) Forced air heats room and things in it, and the things radiate heat like the floor does. I think functionally/efficiently the floor radiant heat is better. But all things considered financially, forced air heating is less.
@@appalachiandiy2415 I looked at others' where they broke it down by square ft, but they're all dubious. Too many contributing factors. I live in the frozen tundra of Michigan. Haha
Yes I love the idea of that product. if i were to do a new build it would have that as the subfloor heard its a little on the salty side though. but like all things you pay for what you get.
PBS #007 the circulation pump pushes the water through the boiler (heating it up) and then travels to the supply trunk of the manifold. It then is divided into the zones. Once the water passes through the zone it returns into the return trunk and pushed back into thr boiler to be heated up again.
Good question. Tank water heaters are not really made for this type of application. However if its all you got i guess it depends if its electric or gas. Electric could potentially be extremely expensive. Gas might be ok. The best thing would be a tankless water heater or furnace. Plus if your domestic water is on the loop its not a good idea. Floor heat is meant to be a closed loop sytem not open like if you were to have domestic heated water on the same system. Hope this helps
Andyman Davies my infloor is a bit complicated, being a geothermal heat pump with forced air priority over domestic hot water preheat . It uses this preheated water when the infloor calls for heat , running it through a water to glycol heat exchanger to transfer heat to the infloor loops, returning the cool water back to the domestic water preheat tank . The water inlet temp is approximately 100 f , the glycol exiting the heat exchanger is approximately 90 f. So the answer is yes you can , with a heat exchanger, but what I can't answer is whether the temp from your domestic hot water might be to hot , I have heard that you don't want the floor loops to run warmer than 100 f , so might need a mixer valve from the cold water
GREAT job. Wondering, if there is a two tube metal piece so you can put both tubes under one metal. Then insulate under that. Reason , wondering if floor joist can act like a coolant soak if heat is near them. I like the cross idea for less sharp bends. I have same situation(house). I also pondered routing tubes in hardwood floors and mudding them tight then reflooring with a thicker synthetic floor since my floors finish is past ready for a refinish job anyway. Some syn flooring have a foam sheet so that would not be good for transfer but might be able to omit? I never worked with pex but those connections looked easy enough. I also heard of shark bite connectors on a oil stove sight in Alaska....land of serious cold and wilderness.
putheflamesou yes, you can buy heat transfer plates that have two groves/channels in them so it will be one piece. You can buy special subfloor panels that have grooves already in them or other types of subfloor made just for pex radiant heat that you can lay down. Underfloor layment may insulate and trap heat but it would be a very small amount. Just use thin underlayment with a low R value. Shark bite connection are very expensive. I would recommend the crimp tool (you can get one under $80) the crimps themselves are very cheap. Cant imagine winters in Alaska and would love to hear how this works for you. Best of luck
A crimp tool? I thought you pushed in only for connection, did you crimp yours or is that a different method, if so is it better/cheaper/? Thanks. I ask box stores but never know salesmen lol, because technology is changing so fast, and I am just frozen watching while sadly some liberties going with it like wood burning. Insurance company scared my wife into burning my wood pile while I was away working on my Sons house. If nothing else I was planning that for my Troy style burial, those are not getting cheaper either! Need to plant some fast growers now.
putheflamesou shark bites are push-on. Very simple but they are very expensive. I used a crimp tool. The tool is around $80 but the crimp rings are very cheap. I think the crimp is better.
Really informative and well explained, thank you. If your system gets a leak and you're away from home, will the hot water circulation stop automatically? Thanks
How efficient is this system? Have you run it throughout the whole house under the floors? And does it keep the all of the House warm? I ask this because I want to install a system like this in my home, and want to make sure I’m getting my moneys worth. Also you did a great job on the video explaining all that it entails.
this system is very efficient. I would probably go with an on-demand water heater instead of my boiler oil furnace. I think that would help make it even more efficient. If you had the location to use an outside wood boiler that would be free heat, even better for cost savings. I have this run through 75% of my house (the last section is crawl space and haven't gotten around to it yet). Yes, it keeps the entire house warm. I love it so much my next house will be built with it already in the floors and if I can get a plot more in the country it will have an outside wood boiler. It's a fantastic system and relatively cheap if you can do the work yourself.
NJ CAMOCUTIE yes this system can be put in a 2 story home. my heat source is an oil fired boiler. a water heater like you would use for domestic hot water would not be very efficient. you need some type of boiler. oil, propane or natural gas are popular choices
An amazing way to heat your house but what is the cost? I love my hot water baseboard heat but $1800.00 for heat and ac is taxing on my income. I kept the baseboard but installed a two ton minisplit and my worst yearly hvac cost has been $625.00. The install cost was $4,200.00! Now for the kicker folks. (drum roll) my wife loves the mini and for its ability to controll humidity during mid atlantic summers and the electric bills. MAMMA HAPPY!!
That is really good! Its so hard to say what your yearly costs would be. I think baseboard is less efficient than floor heat and it can be run at a lower temp. It seems like you got a really nice system, you know what they say....if it ain't broke don't try and fix it. Thanks for the questions.
@@trophyfishn9757 my suggestion, still add the heat tranfer plates. It will allow you to run less flow and tax your system less AND its way more efficient. Just get an adjustable flow manifold
Its used as a main heat source. We also have a pellet stove to help heat the house, we use it in tandem with the radiant floor heat. We have the stove in our living room/dining room. It does cut our heating bill quite a bit. If we didnt have it we would just use radiant solely by itself and be just fine.
Thats a really tough question to answer. It depends how cold it is outside, how effective your insulation is, how warm your thermostat is set to, and many other variables. To be honest I never timed my cycles. I will say this, my circulator pump runs a good bit, the furnace may kick on for a minute or two to get the water back up to temp and then continue to circulate for half an hour until the thermostats kick it off. Again everyone's circumstances will vary. I'll check into it when we get farther into winter and try and time my cycles.
Just wondering, why wouldn't you do a retro fit like you would a new construction? I may be looking to do this to my house and I feel like I would rather remove the flooring and do it the first way you mentioned.
Installing in the floors is the best option. We layed brand new floor month before this and I didnt want to rip it up. If your going to do this anyways, sure go ahead and rip up the old floors and lay it in like new construction. Best of luck!
Appalachian DIY thanks for the reply, I put floors in about 5 years ago but have been looking to do this style of heating and with a finished basement it is either new drywall ceilings or new floor so either is a big job but one makes the heating more efficient and I am a carpenter so give me wood over drywall and mud all day long, thanks again.
Aaron Robbins if you do above floor, you will need to either buy special subfloor with channels routed in them to fit the pex or pour a cement type layer over top. It's the better way to go(more efficient) but usually is done only in new builds. Unless you want to rip up your existing flooring. Havnt done it yet so no video currently
We've got a 100 year old house that has only one layer of flooring. We assumed it was hardwood on top of a sub-floor when we bought it, but instead it is only one floor level of hardwood planks on top of the joists. Because of the shifting of the hardwood boards, there are often very small gaps that appear, and can leak spills into the basement. Also, chair movement is wearing the boards thin in a few places so, we've been considering putting a floor on top of what we now know is the sub-floor. This will be especially important if we finish the basement. We don't want spills leaking into a finished ceiling. So, if we're going to put down a new floor anyway, why not install in-floor radiant heat at the same time. I very much appreciate your video on installing under a sub-floor. It looks very do-able. Do you know of a video I can watch on the above sub-floor methods you mentioned above?
Your boiler is going to crack. You have an old cast iron boiler and it won’t take the thermal shock from the floor heat for very long. You could run a mixing loop with a tank to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. Or buy a mop and keep it next to the boiler.
This boiler was used for baseboard heat. I don't see the difference whether it returns cool from baseboard or radiant floor. I also don't run it very hot. I run it on low
I've Never had service line insurance. So, to be honest, I wouldn't know too much about it, but $120 doesn't seem like much. Make sure it will cover what you specifically have.
right before the boiler. It pushes water into the boiler first, then it circulates to the manifold and to the loops, once it comes back to the return main at the manifold it heads back the pump to start all over again
Instead of using your existing furnace.. can you not supplement the heat with an outdoor heater ( I personally would use glycol since it wouldn't freeze and cause a huge environmental issue and nothing would break). This is a big expense but worth it IMHO Cheers, Great Video
Delekham Yes that is possible. Im looking into using my pellet stove to help heat the water somehow. I know of people who have outdoor burners(burn firewood) that have radiant floor heat and love it. I Think they run straight water though.
Your are quite correct they do use water....I just can't wrap my head around using water when it is -40 outside, unless they insulate it very very well. Which works if the temperature of the ground is not frozen. I am looking at ideas since using Natural Gas or any other fossil fuel is getting to be very expensive. One way my brother in law did it was using his wood burning stove to heat the water, he wrapped pipe around the chimney and then ran radiant heat to his shop. Anyway thanks for a great idea. I might be able to do something with this idea. Great Job..I know it is a PITA to do what you did by yourself.
Nice work! I'm in the middle of same install right now except my whole job requires crawling. It sucks. Anyway. Same manifolds, same pex, same heat transfer plates. How's it been working for you? Have you done any insulation under the pex, or leaving it open to the basement? What kind of water temps are you running? How well did your garden hose fit on the end of the manifold when you bled it. Mine wouldn't go. Some kind of wierd thread.
Matthew Diem it's been working great. I run the lowest temp I can on my boiler. I didn't insulate the underside of my pex because I have a hybrid water heater in the basement. having a little heat loss to the basement allows my hybrid hot water heater to be more efficient with the extra heat generated by the floor heat
it will shrink flooring notexpand it low constant tempiture is best wor real hardwood expanding contracting wood leads to sqeeks fyi laminants over infloor is best
you should have gone in more depth. in how to connect it to the boiler. Explain the process of how does that boiler keeps those lies warm, Can you adjust the temperature of the water, can those water lines warm up ur whole house if you run them in the whole house? How fast does it warm up the room, i need more answers sir.
Just nail it on the sides of the joists two inches down and insulate the bottom of the joist with R-12 then your heating the entire joist cavity a lot less work and if you want to put hardwood floors on you dont have to worry about the nails. Good to go
That will work but not as good as direct contact with the subfloor. you can still do the insulation but the transfer plates and pex should be mounted to the subfloor for maximum heat transfer directly to the floor
Shot in the dark here. Think with a few extra feet of everything and expenses, that you could do this system with solar heating or at least hot water using solar and wind dump loads? I've thought about getting in at the cellar and doing one room with this thought. Using dump loads to the hot water heater (separate from the rest of the hot water lines) and then using a pump to move that hot water up through the pipes. Heating element can run from 120 up to around 160 (I think) and should never really get to boiling stage. Just a thought here. I've been bumping it around in the pea brain for a couple years now. Anybody care to comment? "Specially the poster here on his system. I'd like input in the form of either positive or negative.
This is an interesting idea. I have been thinking of something similar where my pellet stove would be an auxiliary to my current system somehow. I think your idea would work. you would just have to have some type of controller that would dump the hot water a couple minutes before the hot water heater would kick on to get everything warmed up. if not I think you would loose the benefit of the hot water helping to warm things up. Let me know if you try and tackle this. It would make an interesting RUclips video.
I'm not a hater but in this case I have just got to say "Do more research before you try this or ask a professional"! Things I noticed that you are not supposed to do: 1-Do not use regular PEX potable pipe on the manifold feed from the boiler. It has to be Heat PEX or Oxygen barrier rated PEX to keep from damaging the iron piping, boiler or pumps. Uponor heat PEX is the best. 2- If you have to mount the piping under floor, you should encapsulate the joist space by insulating it as much as possible to force the heat through the flooring. BTW, this is the most inefficient way to add in floor heating. Spend the time to raise the floor above the subfloor to make a path for the tubing. It heats much faster. You still need to insulate the joist space. 3- In floor heating PEX runs have a limit in total length. It's best to stay under 280 feet total length 4- PEX piping does not last long when the water temperature gets closer to 180 degrees. Where you tap your boiler feeds is very important or down the line the PEX will become brittle and crack. A single touch could cause a major leak. 5-If you are going to add an in floor circuit to a boiler that also provides heat to radiators, you need to add a temperature mixing valve to keep the feed water between 110-140 degrees. 6-If you have multiple circuits for in floor, you will have to balance the flow to maintain proper water temperature between the circuits. Maybe even add another circulator pump to ensure flow. You also need to make sure that your in floor circuits drop the boiler return water temperature too low. If you have a high efficiency boiler, this would not be a problem. I know the presenter wants to help and so do I. There is a lot of effort in what is being shown and some cost. You do not want to be disappointed or damage your house. There is a science to this heating that must be learned to take full advantage. If you install it like the presenter, it will work. You will be more likely to have problems down the road. No one to blame but the installer at that point. I would hire a guy like this and train him any time. Great potential.
Thanks for the tips, very informative. Thats why I like this platform. its been almost 4 years since Ive made this video and have learned a lot from comments like yours and others. I hope that people interested in doing this read the comments. I understand that it's not perfect but I'm proud of the work. Again, thanks!
interesting idea with the bubble wrap. I heard of it used in conjunction with radiant floor heat to keep the heat from "leaking" into lower levels but not as a way to spread the heat out(which is what a transfer plate does). And yes I had to use the hair dryer(or a heat gun to be more manly!) the pex was to cold in the basement during bending and I was getting kinks in it because there was little give while it was cold.
@@appalachiandiy2415 We only use it where I work in Eastern Mo., boss man quit the aluminum a long time age, turns out these systems are very forgiving and the heat rises anyways! cheers.
@@appalachiandiy2415 no just stapled in each joist bat every foot or so, we cut them around 18 inches off the 4 ft roll joist bay is 14.5 roughly all in the middle of the joist, pex taloned in the top third..
On the manifold there is a flow control valve. This regulates how much heated water goes to a certain zone. It is less expensive than having thermostats and zone valves all over the place. there is a TACO pump for the system. It only needs one pump(saving money) because there are no separate zones or loops, it runs the entire system. There is no 3/4 in pex anywhere in the system soooo dont know where you got that. its 1/2" for the loops and 1" for supply and return to the furnace. This is how I do radiant heat and it works quite well.
I have a zone that is not giving heat all others (6) doing well. House and system 15 years years old. Replaced circulating pump, mixing valve. How can I blow out zone?
haha dont hate! Christmas present growing up from my Dad. Nothing better than getting tools from your dad to get you started in the things you love to do. Thanks for the reply
Matt Lambert haha thats how we do it in Dutch country Pennsylvania. How do you pronounce it? Apple-a-chin? Ive heard it a couple different ways, all depends where your from.
Appalachian DIY. Here in the NC mountains it is pronounced apple-a-chin. Boone is the home of Appalachian University. Tomato Tamato. Nice Heat system btw. Did it make a big difference in the house?
Matt Lambert it made a huge difference! I wish I had know about this type of heat before we remodeled a good bit of our home. I would have put it in sooner. We switched from baseboard heat to radiant floor so it was an easy change.
Interesting system but no architect with half a brain puts heat registers in the ceiling in a home. They are always either in the floor or near the floorboard.
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As a 38 year hvac contractor you did a wonderful job of explaining and nice work . I even pick up a couple of tips. Thanks
Terry Moline thank you!
This has been the best explanation of radiant heating, manifolds, placement and overall system. You are so easy to understand. Thank you for posting this.
Thanks!
I'm in the Army and have been in and out of South Korea from 1998. I learned about radiant floor heating back then when I visited someone's apartment in the winter. Warm floors are so nice in the winter. It's cool to see that people are doing this in the U.S. as well. Will definitely want to do this after I retire from the Army and settle down somewhere.
Warm floors in the winter are amazing. Good luck on retirement!
Thank you for putting out amazing DIY videos that highlight all the important parts without wasting my time with unnecessary chatter and video footage.
Thank you! I try to get to the point.
Best place to cut the holes in the joist would be center of the joist. There is tension at the top and bottom.
yea sure, that would be a good place. biggest thing to worry about is the size of the hole not location
Good Video ! Buddy your explanation/ Narrative is very clear and the camera angles / lighting are easy to see what you are doing many years ago in the early 1980s my best freind asked me to give him a hand doing water lines in a crawl space under his home these were ru outside because we lived in South Florida and it was the first time ive ever seen Pex Tubing i was impressed and over the years ive owned several Campers and Boats that used the same system i am hoping to install Radiant Floor Heating in one of my next homes and i have had a general interest about it for years as. I like the overall concept and theory about it BTW i no longer live in Florida ( in case you were wondering ) why i would be concerned about heat as a rule Florida homes dont concentrate much. On heating usually they put in reverse cycle Airconditioning or AC with heat strips inside them to have something to take a cold chill once or twice each year you may need to use it some of the older houses used to put a Kerosene heater in a closet Without really any way of distributing the heat throughout the house before Pex many homes had Copper water lines running in the exterior of them as Freezing isn’t much of a concern in Florida unless you are a Orange Farmer because a Frost can hurt your tree production
Yes once I saw this type of system I knew I had to have it too. Once you have it you prob will not look back. Thanks for the reply and good luck!
I just want warm floors lol
you did a great job explaining everything in detail. Love that about you !!
Nancy Crane thanks!
Your video is really good! A few things have changed since you posted your video. My recommendations would be to use PEX-A without the brass fittings. This will reduce cost and increase flow. Another option will be to increase the pipe size to 3/4 and still use the fitting, but since the fitting I.D. is now larger the flow will be increased.
Thanks for the info
My understanding is that you have to use PEX B because of the oxygen barrier characteristics of pex b over pex a. From my reading, it appears that pex a allows for oxygen transfer into the water, which can hurt a boiler system. If that is what is used for heating the water.
Great Video! I have that same manifold, that 1" thread ALWAYS leaks like crazy right by the ball valve. It's almost like the threads aren't deep enough for the tapered threads to really seal themselves.
Did you try putting teflon tape on?
@@appalachiandiy2415 Yea I tried teflon. Mega tape, and two different types of pipe dope. Nothing worked. I got the manifold off of amazon. So who knows if its even standard. It might be metric. The flow meters are in Liters not gallons. I ended up using a silicone tape to wrap over it and seal it. Its pretty ghetto right now but it works. Holds pressure fine. I'll be rebuilding it after the winter. Someone mentioned to me a blue pipe dope, apparently it will seal anything.
@@GeeCeeAte sorry to hear that. Mine is gallons on the flow meter. Never heard of the blue stuff. Ill have to check on that
hello sir , i was wondering if there are some calculation's we could make that enable's us to know how many manifold port's we need in regard's to the total space of the house , say for example i have an open space of 70 Square metre how many port's do i need to cover that whole area . thank you .
Ill try and do some converting here 70 sq M is roughly 750 sq feet. You should not run your loops/zones any longer than 300 linear feet (90 meters) Joist bays are 16" (0.4 M) on center here in the states. If your room is perfectly square it would be 27'X27' (8.4X8.4 Meters) There should be 20 joist bays in this area if using 16" centers. You will run a loop down each bay so we can multiply 20x2 and it is 27' long so it would be (20 joist bays X 2 runs per joist X27 foot long joist bay) = 1080 linear feet of pex or 330 Meters of Pex. You will need a minimum of 3 Ports. this does not include the amount of pex needed to get from the manifold to the start of your loop and back again. You should run a 4 port to be on the safe side but 3 is the bare minimum
would these calculations be the same on a 750 sq foot area embedded in a concrete slab and what kind of barrier do you recommend below the concrete. Also is it better to use 3/4 inch tubing? thanks Kevin
If I have three different runs of PEX but one thermostat and pump, can I have the bedroom at 65 degrees and the other two runs, one above the subfloor and crawl space, and the other embedded in a cement slab at 70 degrees? Would I just turn down the flow going to the bedroom? As far as I know you can’t just drop the heat in the house at night then crank it up in the morning.
Yes just change your flow. have the thermostat where you want to control the heat the most
Hi there! great video. I have a question...I installed the pex system with my existing boiler. i have a mixing valve to keep the temp down for the heated floors. the problem is i think the water is too hot. the cold side of the valve is hooked up to the return of the broiler. if I remove that and hook up cold water to the valve wouldn't that be a lot of water waste? and on the return of that water input where does that water go in my boiler?? thanks for any help.
meterfamily, the first thing you should try is to lower your thermostat on your boiler. I turned mine down as far as it would go. (140 i think) doing this is the easiest way to control your temp, which in turn will give you a cooler temp on your return line for your mixing valve. You cant add external cold water without having somewhere for it to go. Think of underfloor heat as a semi closed system. the only time water is added is if you have a leak or trapped air is forced out.
Excellent! I am planning to do exactly the same, also similar basement situation
Let me know how it turns out for you. Good Luck!
Appalachian DIY : can you let me know the pattern of metal plates used. Like spacing between them both horizontal and vertical?
What was the elbow for? Does it go to another manifold on another floor?
Not quite sure which elbow your referring to. There is only one manifold and everything is contained in the basement
Basic physics, Heat rises, and always will. Will heat my basement and try not to let the floor stop the flow of heat. If the floor is too well insulated I will cut air ducts as needed. + I like a warm basement.
Sounds like your on the right track!
Great video. The only info I needed was what you left out 😂. What is the pump/thermostat/heater set up? This is the most expensive aspect, starting around $3,000 for something preconfigured. DIY explanation of that would be 👍🏻 great. Thanks 🙏
A text reply no video needed unless your just bored but that’s doubtful. Keep up the good work.
ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html I made this video a little while ago. Let me know if it answers your questions.
GREAT VIDEO! You do a nice job dumbing this down to layman's understanding.
Thanks!
You're good at explaining things. Thank you.
Thank you
Did you connect this radiant floor system directly into your existing heating system without other modifications? I have one heating zone - baseboard heating on my main floor with basement underneath - that I am considering replacing. Can I simply remove the existing baseboard radiators, install the pex tubing and manifold as demonstrated in your video, and connect to the existing Taco zone valve?
That is pretty much exactly what I did, so yes.
Appreciate this video am.looking to do the same for the 2 main rooms in my home. I do have a question about the hot water supply to the radiant heat manifold - are you utilizing the hot water straight from the boiler HW outlet via circulator, to the manifold, or using a thermostatic valve to reduce the HW supply temp? Thnaks
Straight from the boiler. No mixing valve or anything. I do have the boiler turned all the way down to its lowest setting. I do have a Q&A video about common questions, you can find it on my page
@@appalachiandiy2415 thanks for the reply, I will certainly review your page
What did you do about the flooring nails in the bays? Cut them out?
I used an angle grinder with a cut wheel. Worked good and was fast
@@appalachiandiy2415 I am about to start install. Took us a while to get here because we had to have asbestos removed, cut out all the old pipes, and repair damaged joists.
Supply and return are both at the manifold...so I'm not understanding what the difference of working from supply to return, or return to supply. The pipe distance will be exactly the same.
What am I missing?
Dont fully understand what your trying to ask but here is a video that may help. ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html
Its a couple common questions I get and answers to them. It does go over how its plumbed up and more on the supply and return. if you have more questions after the Q&A video feel free to post again
Appalachian DIY, I am thinking about doing this in my basement for the first floor. Was this a compliment to your existing baseboards? Or did you use as the primary source of heat? I understand that the tile flooring above will be very warm, but worry about the heat making it through the hardwood floors/subfloors.
I have a pellet stove to supplement if needed. I wouldnt worry about to much about hardwood or even laminate. Carpet is probably the hardest to get heat through with this type of system because of the thick padding plus a plush carpet. Both of these will act like insulation and hinder heat transfer
so how does this manifold connect to the furnace or the hot water heater. that is what I am confused about. what powers the water through the lines and where does the water go back into when it returns. if the answer to that is "the manifold" then where does it go from there to heat back up?
Thanks for your time, you video is very well organized and the extra explanation and diagrams are very helpful. tip for next time, use the software that you made the video with and crank up the volume on the clips where you are speaking. i had to increase and decrease the volume several times throughout the video during each transition.
With that said, overall this was a great video.
Good questions. The water is heated in my oil fired water boiler. The hot water goes from the furnace to the manifold supply side via a 1" pex line. Once at the manifold it gets distributed from the supply side out to "zones or legs" it returns from the zones into the return side on the manifold. Once it gets to the return side it returns to the Furnace via another 1" pex line, this cold water gets reheated in the boiler and starts all over again. There is a circulator pump pushing the cold water into the furnace and powers the entire system. the pump is conected to a controler that has a thermostat in a room in the house to tell the boiler to fire and controls the circulator pump.
Hello. Thanks for the nice video. I have a question. How do you get rid of the trapped air in the pex under floor? The manifold is mounted lower than piping. Is there any additional valve of some kind you use to bleed the air out? Thank you.
There is an air vent plumbing fitting in the lines that allows air to escape automatically.
@@appalachiandiy2415 Thanks for the fast reply. Where exactly is the air vent located on your system? I had no choice but to mound main header and flow control lower than PEX tubing under the floor, and now have problem with air being trapped in the tubing. Regards.
@@ehot9730 mine is near my expansion tank. it's higher than the boiler but it's not at the highest point in the system.
@@ehot9730 when mine was installed we had a big plastic garbage can full of glycol and a high volume pump to circulate with a return to the can . The circulation pumps in the system will never flow enough to evaluate the air , after the install and evacuation we put a bleed valve on a reservoir after the system pump to trap any air before it gets to the in floor lines
also interested in info on if you're using single pump with zone valves, or multiple pumps to support each zone. do you have any info on balancing the system once installed and purged?
single pump. There are flow rate valves on the manifold so you can control how much heated water gets to a certain zone. The flow rate valves will help with balancing
Good detail on the manifold setup and how to install to underside of floor. But for someone without a boiler how do they make this work? In my case I have an electric forced air furnace, any thoughts of components needed to heat water with it? And what makes the water flow in a closed loop system?
Paul Tiller. Your out of luck with heating water. its not easily possible with a forced air system. I am working on a conversion for my pellet stove(which is forced air) to heat water to circulate through my system but its is heavily modified.
Water is pumped through the system using a circulator pump. I have a Taco pump on my system
That is very possible....Run copper tubing around your chimney the convection of the water will force it through the tubing. I have a Bro-in-Law that heated his Quonset with this same thought.
Great demonstration and tips. 😊
Thank You
I have baseboard hot water, I would like to put in PEX radiant heat. Do I need a PEX manifold or can I use the existing copper manifold an install a shut off valve with gauge and air valve?
If you already have a manifold that you can use to separate the loops that is just fine. I don't really know what you mean by an air valve though. Without circulation pumps or regulation valves on each loop, you're at the mercy of "path of least resistance" when you push the water through your system. some loops may be hotter than others if you can't control the flow.
any idea what the cost was for that? did you just come off your hot water heater or did you have to get another 1?
I'm going to have a new build home & wanted to ask the builder to install radiant floor heating at least in the bathrooms. In your opinion, how much would a contractor/plumber charge to install the radiant floor heating.
Thanks!
Lisa Hin thats a hard question to answer. if your just doing bathrooms it might be better to go with electric instead of hydronic floor heat. if you put the money into doing the bathroom why not do the whole house? it also depends on how your going to heat the water and your square footage of the bathrooms. Send me more details to my email at AppalachianDIY@gmail.com so I can better help you. Thanks!
+Lisa , you should also consider doing the basement in radiant heating., the cost of doing in the construction stage is far cheaper than doing it afterwards, if you indeed are doing a basement since the basement is by far the coldest. The beauty of it all is if you want to get a little dirty it can be done by yourself or your hubby and you can save ALOT of money. Plus since heat rises, the basement is now heating (to a certain extent) the rest of the house. I would suggest a On Demand water heating System for the Basement Radiant heating and it can double as a heater for your shower/kitchen.
I'm putting together a parts list from scratch and would like your input on your boiler setup. Do you have a controller already in place for your thermostats? Are you running a single pump for the whole system? Is your boiler modulating? A layout video of the system would be very helpful! Good luck on the channel
I only have a single thermostat that controls the boiler. Its in the coldest room in the house that way its always warm enough in there. The Manifold has control valves that lets you control the flow rate to each zone. Im running a single pump(using the same one that was in place for my baseboard heat) I might make another video showing the layout
Was all your PEX the Oxygen Barrier type? And how well did the system work for you since the install? Were you getting noticeable heating through the sub floor and tiles?
The pex is the oxygen barrier type. It worked quite well and Im very happy with it. The room above the radiant floor heat is the bathroom. It has ceramic tile and its is nice and toasty when its running. It feels nice, especially when you're on your bare feet.
@@appalachiandiy2415 So after two years, are you still happy with it? I'm sure the floors feel nice, but does it actually heat your home (or at least this room you did it in)?
@@zcpoling i LOVE it. Yes it can heat the entire house. Put it to you this way. If i ever did a new construction home it would have radiant floor heat
I understand you use a pellet heating source as well is it the only heating source besides the radiant heated floors? I have a on demand water heater it will pump 9.8 gallons per minute I only have one bathroom in my 2 bed house do u think this is enough to warm and supply my house with warm water
at max the manifold was doing about 10 gal min. on a 5 manifold. it might be ok if its running without anything else need hot water. I dont know how you would plumb it up as its a closed loop system and your bathrooms are not.
By any chance do you connect the manifold direct to your heating system ? Do you need an additional pump? ( I have a similar heating system to yours, I use oil to heat my house) Or you just connect the inlet and outlet to an existing loop?
I had baseboard heat before I turned it into a radiant heat system. I used the original trunk line to supply the manifold.
Watch this: ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html
Great job on the video.....your a natural, looking forward to more ................thxs
Dale Gillet thank you. Yes there will be more. I plan to explain the system a little better. Hit subscribe so you don't miss it! 👍
How do you hook up the Taco low voltage zone valve connections. We have similar system and am adding another zone (same circulator). Richie C
Antoinette Miller all zones are controlled by the manifold. I run a single taco circulator
I noticed a lot of nails poking through ceiling in your video, I am going to have the deal with the same issue, can they just be hammered flat or do they need to be cut flush?
I cut mine off with an angle grinder. I didnt want any bumbs and everything to lie flat
@George Nada Non that I have noticed.
I’m halfway through installing this same setup (will be doing 4 zones for lower floor).
I didn’t see you include a pump or mixing valve...was told that they were both a must. Did you keep adding to the system and is there a follow to this video?
Thanks!
I have a single pump running my system. if you have 4 separate zones you will need 4 unless you use the flow regulator on the manifold to adjust flow like I did. I didn't use a mixing valve because I didn't think it necessary to heat water up just to cool it down. I just lowered my furnace to the lowest temp and ran it like that. Works great that way. I couldn't find a good reason to use a mixing valve but if you have some info on it I would love to hear about it. Here is a "follow up" vid ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html Thanks for the questions!
@@appalachiandiy2415 ...learning curve...I have two zones...the ground floor zone will use a manifold that has 4 circuits for the pex radiant heat.
Is it possible to add a radiant zone while keeping other conventional zones, Baseboard, radiator (convectors).??
Sam Black absolutely! Just cut out the baseboard and run floor heat on that loop. Supply and return stay in place, just tap off of them
@@appalachiandiy2415 so what you are saying is keep the baseboard but tap the radiant off of them? thats a great idea. would the loop length limits stay the same(300ft)? or would the baseboard count for something more than just its length?
@@mikakey55 you could keep the baseboard and tap off of it but i would figure the baseboard as part of the 300' length. So if your base board is 100' your pex loop should be 200'
Yes it’s possible, but the baseboard and radiant operate at different temperatures. It will require running the boiler at a higher temp(180) for the baseboard and mixing down with a thermostatic mixing valve for the radiant(130)
A few tips from one who has been in the biz a couple of few decades.... radiant does not heat air well at all, so your "room" is a little deceptive , and radiant thermostats are hung lower and other diffs.... If you do have to use a "remote manifold" you are supposed to in sulfate the pipe (pex) and also you should do it to and from the loops.. There are limits on lengths of loops according to size of pex . Make sure you use heat pex, not aqua pex, as the former has an oxygen barrier. There IS a difference no matter what the guy who is selling it to you says. Without that oxygen barrier you will rust your boiler out quick.
rob Semprini thanks for the tips. I used 1/2" pex and yes i used oxygen barrier pex. I tried to keep the loops under 330 ft runs. What do you consider a remote manifold? Are you saying to insulate the supply and return lines to the manifold and from the furnace?
Usually, yes. There are exceptions, depending on if you are using a three way mixing valve off your existing boiler zones to pipe it, as is usually the case. That valve is set for temp AT the valve, so if you are traveling to the manifold, yes, insulate. But if you are using your mix valve at the manifold, like off a flat plate or marine heat exchanger, then it is not as important . If memory serves, pretty sure the max loop for 3/8 tube is 250 and 1/2 is 350 , so you should be good. Used to be when you bought a box, it was only the length it was rated for, but then it was being made by a lot of other manufacturers getting in on it ., selling in "bulk". Better for the supply house, worse for the plumber.
rob Semprini Thanks for the reply
Hi thanks for this video great idea . Is there no need to insulate between the joists too or that enough what u just showed us
Andrzej Chrzastowski you can do it either way. I wanted some heat in the basement for a hybrid water heater that is why i didnt insulate. If you want all the heat to go up into your rooms, then go ahead and insulate so your not losing heat into the crawl space/basement.
Great information. I appreciate you sharing this with us!
Thanks!
Awesome and informative video. The only question I have is how does the furnace fit into this scenario? Is it like a hot water heater or a standard furnace or what? I understand hot water being what heats the floors....but I’m a bit lost on the “furnace” part. Thanks for this great video! Super duper job!
Linda Lou i have an oil fired boiler furnace. It directly heats the water for the floors. I have a seperate hybrid domestic hot water heater
Most forced air are vents at or on the floor outside walls with cold air returns on the floor of inside walls. So the forced air circulates thru the room (you don't have that in your drawing). The picture is only accurate on the radiant side if the heat from the floor is continuously producing heat--if so your heat bill might reflect higher numbers. If it turns off, eventually both sides will be identical. Issue with heat is not with how it's generated but how it escapes/reduces in the home (insulation and venting issues). However, if you keep feet, hands and head warm you can withstand colder room temps.
Ill agree with you partially, return and supply are usually at the ceiling height and floor level. It all depends on where your system is mounted. No matter if your warm air is pushed in from a bottom register it will still rise to the ceiling, can't change physics. I think the best way to compare hvac to radiant is what you are heating. HVAC is heating air and radiant is heating your floor. Air will dissipate heat quickly while the substance of your flooring continues giving off heat after it has been heated up. Thanks for your reply
@@appalachiandiy2415 I will agree with you, sir. :) Forced air heats room and things in it, and the things radiate heat like the floor does. I think functionally/efficiently the floor radiant heat is better. But all things considered financially, forced air heating is less.
@@loydjenkins I have never done a cost analysis on which is cheaper, perhaps a future video. Thanks!
@@appalachiandiy2415 I looked at others' where they broke it down by square ft, but they're all dubious. Too many contributing factors. I live in the frozen tundra of Michigan. Haha
@@loydjenkins Well try and stay warm up there!
Great video. Just curious since your project have you heard of Warm Board? I am thinking of putting it in my home.
Yes I love the idea of that product. if i were to do a new build it would have that as the subfloor heard its a little on the salty side though. but like all things you pay for what you get.
please explain the connection from the boiler, it is the most important part of the set up
PBS #007 the circulation pump pushes the water through the boiler (heating it up) and then travels to the supply trunk of the manifold. It then is divided into the zones. Once the water passes through the zone it returns into the return trunk and pushed back into thr boiler to be heated up again.
Great video. My question is could you use the existing hot water tank or should I install a separate hot water tank?
Good question. Tank water heaters are not really made for this type of application. However if its all you got i guess it depends if its electric or gas. Electric could potentially be extremely expensive. Gas might be ok. The best thing would be a tankless water heater or furnace. Plus if your domestic water is on the loop its not a good idea. Floor heat is meant to be a closed loop sytem not open like if you were to have domestic heated water on the same system. Hope this helps
@@appalachiandiy2415 thanks for the reply
Andyman Davies my infloor is a bit complicated, being a geothermal heat pump with forced air priority over domestic hot water preheat . It uses this preheated water when the infloor calls for heat , running it through a water to glycol heat exchanger to transfer heat to the infloor loops, returning the cool water back to the domestic water preheat tank . The water inlet temp is approximately 100 f , the glycol exiting the heat exchanger is approximately 90 f. So the answer is yes you can , with a heat exchanger, but what I can't answer is whether the temp from your domestic hot water might be to hot , I have heard that you don't want the floor loops to run warmer than 100 f , so might need a mixer valve from the cold water
What type of furnace do you use?
its an oil burner
GREAT job. Wondering, if there is a two tube metal piece so you can put both tubes under one metal. Then insulate under that. Reason , wondering if floor joist can act like a coolant soak if heat is near them. I like the cross idea for less sharp bends. I have same situation(house). I also pondered routing tubes in hardwood floors and mudding them tight then reflooring with a thicker synthetic floor since my floors finish is past ready for a refinish job anyway. Some syn flooring have a foam sheet so that would not be good for transfer but might be able to omit? I never worked with pex but those connections looked easy enough. I also heard of shark bite connectors on a oil stove sight in Alaska....land of serious cold and wilderness.
putheflamesou yes, you can buy heat transfer plates that have two groves/channels in them so it will be one piece.
You can buy special subfloor panels that have grooves already in them or other types of subfloor made just for pex radiant heat that you can lay down.
Underfloor layment may insulate and trap heat but it would be a very small amount. Just use thin underlayment with a low R value.
Shark bite connection are very expensive. I would recommend the crimp tool (you can get one under $80) the crimps themselves are very cheap. Cant imagine winters in Alaska and would love to hear how this works for you. Best of luck
A crimp tool? I thought you pushed in only for connection, did you crimp yours or is that a different method, if so is it better/cheaper/? Thanks. I ask box stores but never know salesmen lol, because technology is changing so fast, and I am just frozen watching while sadly some liberties going with it like wood burning. Insurance company scared my wife into burning my wood pile while I was away working on my Sons house. If nothing else I was planning that for my Troy style burial, those are not getting cheaper either! Need to plant some fast growers now.
putheflamesou shark bites are push-on. Very simple but they are very expensive. I used a crimp tool. The tool is around $80 but the crimp rings are very cheap. I think the crimp is better.
Really informative and well explained, thank you. If your system gets a leak and you're away from home, will the hot water circulation stop automatically? Thanks
Rafael Gelpi the circulator pump is only on when the system calls for hot water. it will not auto shutt of if there is a leak
How efficient is this system? Have you run it throughout the whole house under the floors? And does it keep the all of the House warm?
I ask this because I want to install a system like this in my home, and want to make sure I’m getting my moneys worth.
Also you did a great job on the video explaining all that it entails.
this system is very efficient. I would probably go with an on-demand water heater instead of my boiler oil furnace. I think that would help make it even more efficient. If you had the location to use an outside wood boiler that would be free heat, even better for cost savings.
I have this run through 75% of my house (the last section is crawl space and haven't gotten around to it yet). Yes, it keeps the entire house warm. I love it so much my next house will be built with it already in the floors and if I can get a plot more in the country it will have an outside wood boiler. It's a fantastic system and relatively cheap if you can do the work yourself.
Did you mount your pump to a board or just to the pipe?
Salmon Hunter its plumbed in-line on a 1/2" copper line. I dont think there is a need to mount it unless there is no support (like if using pex)
Thank you for sharing this...clear n concise!!!! Can this system heat a 2 story barn home you think? So is it hooked to your Hot water heater?
NJ CAMOCUTIE yes this system can be put in a 2 story home. my heat source is an oil fired boiler. a water heater like you would use for domestic hot water would not be very efficient. you need some type of boiler. oil, propane or natural gas are popular choices
An amazing way to heat your house but what is the cost? I love my hot water baseboard heat but $1800.00 for heat and ac is taxing on my income. I kept the baseboard but installed a two ton minisplit and my worst yearly hvac cost has been $625.00. The install cost was $4,200.00!
Now for the kicker folks. (drum roll) my wife loves the mini and for its ability to controll humidity during mid atlantic summers and the electric bills. MAMMA HAPPY!!
That is really good! Its so hard to say what your yearly costs would be. I think baseboard is less efficient than floor heat and it can be run at a lower temp. It seems like you got a really nice system, you know what they say....if it ain't broke don't try and fix it. Thanks for the questions.
@@trophyfishn9757 my suggestion, still add the heat tranfer plates. It will allow you to run less flow and tax your system less AND its way more efficient. Just get an adjustable flow manifold
Is that used as supplemental heat or your main heat source? I ask because you mentioned the furnace not working as hard.
Its used as a main heat source. We also have a pellet stove to help heat the house, we use it in tandem with the radiant floor heat. We have the stove in our living room/dining room. It does cut our heating bill quite a bit. If we didnt have it we would just use radiant solely by itself and be just fine.
Appalachian DIY please
Thanks for the video. It is well done.
Ira Turner thank you!
How long does the system stay off before turning back on to heat the floor
Thats a really tough question to answer. It depends how cold it is outside, how effective your insulation is, how warm your thermostat is set to, and many other variables. To be honest I never timed my cycles. I will say this, my circulator pump runs a good bit, the furnace may kick on for a minute or two to get the water back up to temp and then continue to circulate for half an hour until the thermostats kick it off. Again everyone's circumstances will vary. I'll check into it when we get farther into winter and try and time my cycles.
Just wondering, why wouldn't you do a retro fit like you would a new construction? I may be looking to do this to my house and I feel like I would rather remove the flooring and do it the first way you mentioned.
Installing in the floors is the best option. We layed brand new floor month before this and I didnt want to rip it up. If your going to do this anyways, sure go ahead and rip up the old floors and lay it in like new construction. Best of luck!
Appalachian DIY thanks for the reply, I put floors in about 5 years ago but have been looking to do this style of heating and with a finished basement it is either new drywall ceilings or new floor so either is a big job but one makes the heating more efficient and I am a carpenter so give me wood over drywall and mud all day long, thanks again.
haha so either way, your ripping something up. Im not the best at mudding either. good luck.
can you show something for above sub floor?
Aaron Robbins if you do above floor, you will need to either buy special subfloor with channels routed in them to fit the pex or pour a cement type layer over top. It's the better way to go(more efficient) but usually is done only in new builds. Unless you want to rip up your existing flooring. Havnt done it yet so no video currently
We've got a 100 year old house that has only one layer of flooring. We assumed it was hardwood on top of a sub-floor when we bought it, but instead it is only one floor level of hardwood planks on top of the joists. Because of the shifting of the hardwood boards, there are often very small gaps that appear, and can leak spills into the basement. Also, chair movement is wearing the boards thin in a few places so, we've been considering putting a floor on top of what we now know is the sub-floor. This will be especially important if we finish the basement. We don't want spills leaking into a finished ceiling. So, if we're going to put down a new floor anyway, why not install in-floor radiant heat at the same time. I very much appreciate your video on installing under a sub-floor. It looks very do-able. Do you know of a video I can watch on the above sub-floor methods you mentioned above?
Aaron Robbins ruclips.net/video/MZWQCSvcKMA/видео.html somthing like this. doesnt have to be the exact subfloor material but somthing like it
Your boiler is going to crack. You have an old cast iron boiler and it won’t take the thermal shock from the floor heat for very long. You could run a mixing loop with a tank to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. Or buy a mop and keep it next to the boiler.
This boiler was used for baseboard heat. I don't see the difference whether it returns cool from baseboard or radiant floor. I also don't run it very hot. I run it on low
What's your position on service line insurance? would $120 anually be cost effective?..
I've Never had service line insurance. So, to be honest, I wouldn't know too much about it, but $120 doesn't seem like much. Make sure it will cover what you specifically have.
Thank you for posting this video, very detailed
LUONG LY your welcome. Glad you enjoyed it!
Where is the pump circulating the water?
right before the boiler. It pushes water into the boiler first, then it circulates to the manifold and to the loops, once it comes back to the return main at the manifold it heads back the pump to start all over again
Instead of using your existing furnace.. can you not supplement the heat with an outdoor heater ( I personally would use glycol since it wouldn't freeze and cause a huge environmental issue and nothing would break).
This is a big expense but worth it IMHO
Cheers, Great Video
Delekham Yes that is possible. Im looking into using my pellet stove to help heat the water somehow. I know of people who have outdoor burners(burn firewood) that have radiant floor heat and love it. I Think they run straight water though.
Your are quite correct they do use water....I just can't wrap my head around using water when it is -40 outside, unless they insulate it very very well. Which works if the temperature of the ground is not frozen. I am looking at ideas since using Natural Gas or any other fossil fuel is getting to be very expensive.
One way my brother in law did it was using his wood burning stove to heat the water, he wrapped pipe around the chimney and then ran radiant heat to his shop.
Anyway thanks for a great idea. I might be able to do something with this idea. Great Job..I know it is a PITA to do what you did by yourself.
Could this be ran off a water heater
It's possible, but I don't think it's the most efficient. Check this out: ruclips.net/video/lTkTL3VT2FM/видео.html
Never thought this would work with wood flooring.
Bierrr absolutely! Its a versatile way to heat.
Save a lot of money, eliminate the PEX.
Great video. Thanks!
Stevan Plavsa your welcome!
Nice work! I'm in the middle of same install right now except my whole job requires crawling. It sucks. Anyway. Same manifolds, same pex, same heat transfer plates. How's it been working for you? Have you done any insulation under the pex, or leaving it open to the basement? What kind of water temps are you running? How well did your garden hose fit on the end of the manifold when you bled it. Mine wouldn't go. Some kind of wierd thread.
Matthew Diem it's been working great. I run the lowest temp I can on my boiler. I didn't insulate the underside of my pex because I have a hybrid water heater in the basement. having a little heat loss to the basement allows my hybrid hot water heater to be more efficient with the extra heat generated by the floor heat
Appalachian DIY what kind of hybrid hot water heater you have
Does the radiant heating will damage or expand my 3/4" hardwood floor?
Yes it will expand....to the extent of damage, most likely not.
it will shrink flooring notexpand it low constant tempiture is best wor real hardwood expanding contracting wood leads to sqeeks fyi laminants over infloor is best
Yo brother how are you controlling the flow
there are flow regulators on each port of the manifold. controlled by gpm.
Use antifreeze mixed with water ?🤔
There are special mixes used for hydronic systems. They are typically glycol based.
Great job and video !....thank you for posting man !
Although I lived in Appalachia and I was hoping to hear that nice accent...LOL
neocollective im glad you liked it!
you should have gone in more depth. in how to connect it to the boiler. Explain the process of how does that boiler keeps those lies warm, Can you adjust the temperature of the water, can those water lines warm up ur whole house if you run them in the whole house? How fast does it warm up the room, i need more answers sir.
I plan on making another video that explains some of those things in the near future. Thanks for the reply
Also add how long loops should be and not putting tubing under cabinets.
Go to Menards for your connectors.
I didnt have a Menards close by so I got everything online. Menards is a super cool store though. thanks for the reply
Just nail it on the sides of the joists two inches down and insulate the bottom of the joist with R-12
then your heating the entire joist cavity a lot less work and if you want to put hardwood floors on you dont have to worry about the nails. Good to go
That will work but not as good as direct contact with the subfloor. you can still do the insulation but the transfer plates and pex should be mounted to the subfloor for maximum heat transfer directly to the floor
Great video. Thanx for sharing
thanks you
Great video, thank you.
Absolutely! thanks
staple gun would work better than screws for plates
Yes! I did do that for the other loops in the system. WAY faster. thanks for the reply
Shot in the dark here. Think with a few extra feet of everything and expenses, that you could do this system with solar heating or at least hot water using solar and wind dump loads? I've thought about getting in at the cellar and doing one room with this thought. Using dump loads to the hot water heater (separate from the rest of the hot water lines) and then using a pump to move that hot water up through the pipes. Heating element can run from 120 up to around 160 (I think) and should never really get to boiling stage. Just a thought here. I've been bumping it around in the pea brain for a couple years now. Anybody care to comment? "Specially the poster here on his system. I'd like input in the form of either positive or negative.
This is an interesting idea. I have been thinking of something similar where my pellet stove would be an auxiliary to my current system somehow. I think your idea would work. you would just have to have some type of controller that would dump the hot water a couple minutes before the hot water heater would kick on to get everything warmed up. if not I think you would loose the benefit of the hot water helping to warm things up. Let me know if you try and tackle this. It would make an interesting RUclips video.
Thank you!
Cem Turhal your welcome!
awesome, thanks bro!
Thanks!
I'm not a hater but in this case I have just got to say "Do more research before you try this or ask a professional"! Things I noticed that you are not supposed to do:
1-Do not use regular PEX potable pipe on the manifold feed from the boiler. It has to be Heat PEX or Oxygen barrier rated PEX to keep from damaging the iron piping, boiler or pumps. Uponor heat PEX is the best.
2- If you have to mount the piping under floor, you should encapsulate the joist space by insulating it as much as possible to force the heat through the flooring. BTW, this is the most inefficient way to add in floor heating. Spend the time to raise the floor above the subfloor to make a path for the tubing. It heats much faster. You still need to insulate the joist space.
3- In floor heating PEX runs have a limit in total length. It's best to stay under 280 feet total length
4- PEX piping does not last long when the water temperature gets closer to 180 degrees. Where you tap your boiler feeds is very important or down the line the PEX will become brittle and crack. A single touch could cause a major leak.
5-If you are going to add an in floor circuit to a boiler that also provides heat to radiators, you need to add a temperature mixing valve to keep the feed water between 110-140 degrees.
6-If you have multiple circuits for in floor, you will have to balance the flow to maintain proper water temperature between the circuits. Maybe even add another circulator pump to ensure flow. You also need to make sure that your in floor circuits drop the boiler return water temperature too low. If you have a high efficiency boiler, this would not be a problem.
I know the presenter wants to help and so do I. There is a lot of effort in what is being shown and some cost. You do not want to be disappointed or damage your house. There is a science to this heating that must be learned to take full advantage. If you install it like the presenter, it will work. You will be more likely to have problems down the road. No one to blame but the installer at that point.
I would hire a guy like this and train him any time. Great potential.
Thanks for the tips, very informative. Thats why I like this platform. its been almost 4 years since Ive made this video and have learned a lot from comments like yours and others. I hope that people interested in doing this read the comments. I understand that it's not perfect but I'm proud of the work. Again, thanks!
I'm going to ask my Son to do this for me.
We love this type of heat! good luck.
you'll don't need the aluminium plates , just staple some if the reflective bubble wrap ... works great you don't need the hair dryer either...lol
interesting idea with the bubble wrap. I heard of it used in conjunction with radiant floor heat to keep the heat from "leaking" into lower levels but not as a way to spread the heat out(which is what a transfer plate does). And yes I had to use the hair dryer(or a heat gun to be more manly!) the pex was to cold in the basement during bending and I was getting kinks in it because there was little give while it was cold.
@@appalachiandiy2415 We only use it where I work in Eastern Mo., boss man quit the aluminum a long time age, turns out these systems are very forgiving and the heat rises anyways! cheers.
@@markakin3742 do you staple the bubble wrap tight against the pex and subfloor?
@@appalachiandiy2415 no just stapled in each joist bat every foot or so, we cut them around 18 inches off the 4 ft roll joist bay is 14.5 roughly all in the middle of the joist, pex taloned in the top third..
"Without further ado"
Yep!
THUMBS DOWN FOR THE ADDED NOISE
Haha yeah its an earlier video that I've made. Watch some newer ones they're better
That big spider! D: nobody notice?
where is this big spider?
No zone valve , no pump and 3/4 pex, this is not how you do infloor heat, jm fitter/ plumber here
On the manifold there is a flow control valve. This regulates how much heated water goes to a certain zone. It is less expensive than having thermostats and zone valves all over the place. there is a TACO pump for the system. It only needs one pump(saving money) because there are no separate zones or loops, it runs the entire system. There is no 3/4 in pex anywhere in the system soooo dont know where you got that. its 1/2" for the loops and 1" for supply and return to the furnace. This is how I do radiant heat and it works quite well.
Dagnabbedit, doing good until you started that ridiculous "music" at some times...
I have a zone that is not giving heat all others (6) doing well. House and system 15 years years old. Replaced circulating pump, mixing valve. How can I blow out zone?
What do you mean by blow out zone?
haha thanks!
Hard to respect you when your using a Ryobie driver....LOL. J/K
haha dont hate! Christmas present growing up from my Dad. Nothing better than getting tools from your dad to get you started in the things you love to do. Thanks for the reply
Ryobie is the only company that hasn’t guaranteed obsolescence by changing battery designs. They have my business because of that.
@@markjourdan2085 That is a nice perk. We'll see how long that lasts
Appa-lay-shun? Sound like a yankee. It’s Appala-CHA.
patrick woodard haha yes, it all depends where your from. Up north everyone says "shun" not "cha". I wonder where the dividing line is?
I did it with the help of Avasva solutions.
great
Please learn how to pronounce Appalachian
Matt Lambert haha thats how we do it in Dutch country Pennsylvania. How do you pronounce it? Apple-a-chin? Ive heard it a couple different ways, all depends where your from.
Appalachian DIY. Here in the NC mountains it is pronounced apple-a-chin. Boone is the home of Appalachian University. Tomato Tamato. Nice Heat system btw. Did it make a big difference in the house?
Matt Lambert it made a huge difference! I wish I had know about this type of heat before we remodeled a good bit of our home. I would have put it in sooner. We switched from baseboard heat to radiant floor so it was an easy change.
Interesting system but no architect with half a brain puts heat registers in the ceiling in a home. They are always either in the floor or near the floorboard.
Charles Cosimano these are not in a ceiling. They are under a 1st floor. This was filmed in the basement where you can see them
Why do most commercial buildings have registers in ceilings?
Thank you!
Yep!