Thanks once again to Neil for having me as a guest in the Retro Man Cave. Always nice when a repair works and I'm ever hopeful of a chance of playing a game of something on the system one day...
You’ve brought me back over twenty years to playing Turbographix 16 games and Bonk’s Adventure. 😊 what I can only think of as PC Engine’s answer to Mario. Thanks for the tlc on this historic system.
Cheers guys, interesting conclusion to a great series! You asked for our experiences with solder paste and mine wasn't great. With a heat gun it was too easy to cause damage to the board or other components. My fault though, I guess I shouldn't have used an A1200 board to start with and practised on a scrap board first. I definitely think a pre-heater would have helped though. The other issue with solder paste is that it has a short shelf life, although that can be lengthened a bit by keeping it in the fridge. So, unless you do a lot of soldering it could be a waste of money.
Most solder paste data sheets will show that there is a recommended heating profile that contains a preheat temp that 'activates' the flux and flow temp and timed ramps and duration... I've used gallons of paste but it was in ovens with either a conveyor for moving through heat zones or a tightly controlled convection oven. It does work with a heat gun and visual feedback but it's much more efficient with programmable equipment.
I don't have as much experience in repair as any of you guys, however I've been making boards for a while, and were I in your situation I'd have replaced all caps before reflowing the paste in an oven (especially with low-temp paste as you have) instead of using hot hair. Great video as usual!
stupid question… why white wine vinegar instead of distilled white vinegar? the residual sugar in the white wine vinegar can't be great if you miss cleaning some out from under a chip
I wish you luck getting your hands on one of those LD-ROMs. This machine is honestly amazing and I want to see more of it! On solder paste: I'm hoping to try it soon in putting together an Xbox 360 RF board to USB adapter, and then maybe in upgrading the RAM in (another) OG Xbox. I don't have a board preheater.
I've seen a post somewhere, someone has RGB modded the megadrive PAC, and also got a 32x working with it. A nice, clean RGB mod to a MD2 AV port would make this an even more amazing console.
That was a fun ride to watch. I can imagine the re-capping may have brought you and MArk to the point of madness lol. I love early disc based systems. they had so many innovations that we take for granted today. Granted, the tech is way more refined now but I just find them fascinating.
I use paste all the time and I just recently converted a cheap toaster oven for smd reflow. It is no quicker using paste unles you are using a reflow oven and I would still use solder when replacing a few items on a board. Now if you have a stencil and lots of smd components it's a so much quicker and cleaner to reflow them all at the same time. please have a look at some of my vids, I made the smd oven and also used the heatgun to reflow the custom led PCB I make for neo geo mini marquees.
@@MarkFixesStuff no trouble, I am still learning and find putting the paste on the pcb was way too fidly for a few parts. I also found a lot of the cheap paste like the mechanic stuff is just not very good and was recommended to use kester, but that is not easy to find un the uk unless you want to pay quite a bit for it. I have some chipquik paste on the way to test that next time I do a reflow.
I use two soldering irons to pick caps of the PCB. for Chips I use hot air to remove and then to solder them I use a double bevel tip to solder all the pins at once. Flux and good tinning lets me remove the solder bridges.
this is a great video. I have an old xbox and I am planning on opening it up and checking if there is any leakage. hope it is as easy as in your videos. I just got my white wine vinegar and my isopropyl alcohol
Born and raised in West Berlin i remember my teenage time late/early 80/90's, one of my classmate's family comes from HongKong. He got all this cool stuff and more and we spend very much time playin all these 'exotic' game titles that never released on commodore or atari... it was the first time i saw consoles like pc engine or neo geo...
Great video as always! I have recapped a fair few consoles & computers myself over the years. Amigas, Turbo duos, CD32s and plenty of Game Gears! It would be interesting to see a video regarding the board heater and how it may affect using a hot air station. I own a hot air rework station but prefer using an iron myself.
3:20 Brits with tea 😋 Anyway- PC Engine is awesome console! It got so many futures and graphically was able to beat Amiga and Atari computer games those times and even later! Absolutely astonish graphics and gameplay with sound that can tease your ear, makes that console one of my favourites.
Fire Pro Wrestling is a timing-based wrestling game. Strikes have to connect exactly, for instance, if you don't hit the guy in the face with a punch, it'll miss. When the wrestlers get close enough, they'll tie up, and the first person to press the button after the tie up animation finishes will perform a move. Of course, if your opponent isn't worn down enough if you try a big move, auto-counter will kick in, a kinda safeguard against matches ending too quick. (sorry, just love those games)
given the linear nature of time and the tendency of electrolytic capacitors to leak or turn into resistors with the passage of time, I suspect a board pre-heater or a full reflow station would be a valuable addition to the cave. I think an ultrasonic cleaner bath large enough to accept large boards would also not go amiss, as it can make removing flux and deep-cleaning cartridge and other press-fit connectors much easier. Curiously enough, it isn't recommended as the first step in repairing boards as it can make it more difficult to trace faults by removing the telltale evidence of board damage. Having a board heating station can make it a lot easier to get surface mount components to let go with minimal additional heat required from a heat gun and it can also help you use solder paste to place multiple surface-mount components at a time by allowing you to use a larger lower volume head to gently heat the solder to its melting point without needing to also heat the ground plane excessively.
Awesome. Got a question - I’m guessing there aren’t any capacitor kits available for something so niche, so where would you get small numbers of caps from at a reasonable cost? Or do you need to get larger packs? I’m in the uk if that helps :)
Places like console5.com sell the packs. They are also a good reference for the list of caps needed so you can buy from RS Components, Farnell or other UK suppliers.
What screwdriver did you use to remove the screws at the back of the PAC's? As far as I can tell they may be "System Zero" head's but I cannot find out what size?
Vinegar neutralizes the electrolyte. Does isopropyl neutralize vinegar, or just wash it off? Does it make sense to completely remove the vinegar from washing the circuit board with water? With subsequent drying. (google translate)
Solder Paste/Hot Air rework is much more successful with a preheater on the board. The board sinks away a lot of heat, so the hot air alone is very inefficient. You are not only having to heat the joint, but also the board around the joint with the hot air.
That tin bismuth alloy solder has real problems with use on equipment which had lead solder like this. The inter-alloy formed can melt at temps as low as 95C. Not recommended.
For things like ICs solder paste is normally applied using stencils. If you are making dozens of boards it is worth getting one made, but probably not for a one off especially if some components have already been fitted. A more general comment, are you using an Anti-Static wrist strap when you are handling complex boards like that ? I will admit that I have only once damaged a component (an EPROM) with static. That was about a fortnight after telling someone it had never happened to me. Blow any IC in a system like the LaserActive and it is unlikely you would ever get the board it is on working again.
@@RMCRetro finally I found it, as I played the NES version when I was a kid and forgot about it for many years. Remembering only the intro with the radio panel.
What is the into music track? I like it! Great video Neil keep it up on here! Been following you now for a long time now because I found your Amiga 500 trash to treasure video and I've been hooked since
I've got a genesis and a DVD player in my basement I'll let go for a mere $300 if the repair isn't successful. Great vid I can't lie I want one of these.
Hi, first of all congratulations for the video... I would really like to live near you, because I also have a complete set of Pioneer Laser Active but here in Italy I can't find anyone capable of fixing it for me!!!😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
probably sounds like a daft question this. but here goes.. if capacitors are prone to leakage.. then is there any other technology you can use that doesn't leak?
You can substitute the electrolytic caps with ceramic or multilayered ceramic chip capacitors (MLCC) and many do with good results. It's not as clear cut as some people make out though as substitutes can have different performance specifications which cause unintended results. They are also more expensive especially in this quantity. So in short, yes there are alternatives and yes they are often just fine, but when someone says "just swap them out with ceramics and forget about them" it's worth doing a little research first.
@@bazza5699 What Neil said. Solid State capacitors behave differently and are not applicable to every task. They are also typically found in smaller values than electrolytics capacitors.
Hang fire... solder paste never really got jet printed... ever... For the most part it's screen printed, a bit like how some t-shirt logos were done. Although saying that, when I was working for Herald Electronics one of my jobs was to process X-Y data for a Mydata 500 Solder Printer... The 500 we had was totally fresh out of development and the guy from Mydata didn't really know how the bloody thing would work either... Quite a lot of stuff built using the prototype MY500 got returned because it wasn't soldered properly...
Those cheap wan hung low caps are crap Neil and thanks to Mark Payne for his solder paste tutorial. I just use 0.4mm 60/40 solder and my soldering station it works for me .. I love episodes with the laserdisk very interesting 🤩🤩🤩🤩Kim🤩🤩🤩🤩
I would love on of those machine, but I don't have the money or the technical skill required to repair one. Having low income is a pain lol. Oh well guess I shouldn't be mentally ill :(
This was quite the rollercoaster to read. I'll be taking this to some expos so hopefully more people who haven't got access to one can experience it a little
Thanks once again to Neil for having me as a guest in the Retro Man Cave. Always nice when a repair works and I'm ever hopeful of a chance of playing a game of something on the system one day...
#spoilers
;)
You’ve brought me back over twenty years to playing Turbographix 16 games and Bonk’s Adventure. 😊 what I can only think of as PC Engine’s answer to Mario. Thanks for the tlc on this historic system.
That's such an awesome system! Good job on the restoration
Nice work, guys. This has been a great series on a very obscure and tremendously expensive bit of historic tech.
I love watching your repairs/trash to treasure series, so theraputic! You soft tones really make you the Bob Ross of retro board repairs :)
(with less hair)
I'm a bit of an Anglophile. Love hearing your UK perspective on tech.
I'm wondering how much of the language is just technician talk or limey technician talk.
Cheers guys, interesting conclusion to a great series! You asked for our experiences with solder paste and mine wasn't great. With a heat gun it was too easy to cause damage to the board or other components. My fault though, I guess I shouldn't have used an A1200 board to start with and practised on a scrap board first. I definitely think a pre-heater would have helped though. The other issue with solder paste is that it has a short shelf life, although that can be lengthened a bit by keeping it in the fridge. So, unless you do a lot of soldering it could be a waste of money.
This is turning into a huge labour of love with the Laser Active. Great video, thank you !
Free Mark from 'cap'tivity! Got to pay attention lol. Great video series. Thanks for both your efforts.
Aww, thanks Steve!
I actually escaped whilst he was eating a pile of bananas.
Most solder paste data sheets will show that there is a recommended heating profile that contains a preheat temp that 'activates' the flux and flow temp and timed ramps and duration... I've used gallons of paste but it was in ovens with either a conveyor for moving through heat zones or a tightly controlled convection oven. It does work with a heat gun and visual feedback but it's much more efficient with programmable equipment.
I don't have as much experience in repair as any of you guys, however I've been making boards for a while, and were I in your situation I'd have replaced all caps before reflowing the paste in an oven (especially with low-temp paste as you have) instead of using hot hair. Great video as usual!
If techmoan can do karaoke so can you.
Unlike Techmoan I'm not up all night to get lucky
but... We've Come So Far...
but in the end it doesnt even matter
stupid question… why white wine vinegar instead of distilled white vinegar? the residual sugar in the white wine vinegar can't be great if you miss cleaning some out from under a chip
What a beast the Laseractive! Well done to you amd Mark Fixes Stuff on bringing back to full health.
I wish you luck getting your hands on one of those LD-ROMs. This machine is honestly amazing and I want to see more of it!
On solder paste: I'm hoping to try it soon in putting together an Xbox 360 RF board to USB adapter, and then maybe in upgrading the RAM in (another) OG Xbox. I don't have a board preheater.
Another great video about a really interesting machine. Lovely stuff, Neil (and Mark!)
Cheers Rich!
I adore this series, and this channel. Thanks so much for this, really makes me happy. My cat is also a huge fan.
Please give your cat a friendly pat from me!
@@RMCRetro Lots and lots of purring!
@@Skaera75b Please give your cat a tasty treat from me!
@@MarkFixesStuff well now, I have no choice- he's being thoroughly spoiled now- and he says thanks for all the love (and treats!)
I've seen a post somewhere, someone has RGB modded the megadrive PAC, and also got a 32x working with it. A nice, clean RGB mod to a MD2 AV port would make this an even more amazing console.
That was a fun ride to watch. I can imagine the re-capping may have brought you and MArk to the point of madness lol.
I love early disc based systems. they had so many innovations that we take for granted today. Granted, the tech is way more refined now but I just find them fascinating.
Great restoration guys, you make a good team. Wouldnt mind seeing you doing more videos together
Thoroughly enjoyed this series. Love the channel.
Thanks I'm glad you enjoyed it
I use paste all the time and I just recently converted a cheap toaster oven for smd reflow. It is no quicker using paste unles you are using a reflow oven and I would still use solder when replacing a few items on a board. Now if you have a stencil and lots of smd components it's a so much quicker and cleaner to reflow them all at the same time. please have a look at some of my vids, I made the smd oven and also used the heatgun to reflow the custom led PCB I make for neo geo mini marquees.
I'll check that out for sure DJ Legion. Thanks for the tips.
@@MarkFixesStuff no trouble, I am still learning and find putting the paste on the pcb was way too fidly for a few parts. I also found a lot of the cheap paste like the mechanic stuff is just not very good and was recommended to use kester, but that is not easy to find un the uk unless you want to pay quite a bit for it. I have some chipquik paste on the way to test that next time I do a reflow.
For a second there, I thought you were talking about marquees for a Neo Geo Mini!
@@subcon959 I make led replacement marquees for the full size cabinets.
I use two soldering irons to pick caps of the PCB. for Chips I use hot air to remove and then to solder them I use a double bevel tip to solder all the pins at once. Flux and good tinning lets me remove the solder bridges.
I love the look of the PCE pack, it looks like a 3.5" floppy drive! 😁
Also thumbs up for fixing that device, it sure is a rare candy to enjoy.
this is a great video. I have an old xbox and I am planning on opening it up and checking if there is any leakage. hope it is as easy as in your videos. I just got my white wine vinegar and my isopropyl alcohol
Chase HQ at the end. Loved that game. “Your the driver!”
Ooooh yes! Lovely material. Kudoz to you both guys and thanks for uploading this!
You're welcome, thanks for watching
Born and raised in West Berlin i remember my teenage time late/early 80/90's, one of my classmate's family comes from HongKong. He got all this cool stuff and more and we spend very much time playin all these 'exotic' game titles that never released on commodore or atari... it was the first time i saw consoles like pc engine or neo geo...
Great video as always!
I have recapped a fair few consoles & computers myself over the years. Amigas, Turbo duos, CD32s and plenty of Game Gears!
It would be interesting to see a video regarding the board heater and how it may affect using a hot air station. I own a hot air rework station but prefer using an iron myself.
Mark has one incoming! Go and give him a sub and I'm sure a review will appear soon
3:20 Brits with tea 😋
Anyway- PC Engine is awesome console! It got so many futures and graphically was able to beat Amiga and Atari computer games those times and even later!
Absolutely astonish graphics and gameplay with sound that can tease your ear, makes that console one of my favourites.
I can honestly say I've never used solder paste in the comments section.
Badum... tsshhhhhh! 😀
Fire Pro Wrestling is a timing-based wrestling game. Strikes have to connect exactly, for instance, if you don't hit the guy in the face with a punch, it'll miss. When the wrestlers get close enough, they'll tie up, and the first person to press the button after the tie up animation finishes will perform a move. Of course, if your opponent isn't worn down enough if you try a big move, auto-counter will kick in, a kinda safeguard against matches ending too quick.
(sorry, just love those games)
solder paste can be a godsend for piddly-tiny components and fine pitch SMD ICs. but anything big enough to use a iron instead is easier that way.
"I burned a CD". That's a phrase I've not heard for a long time
Just what I needed on a Friday!
given the linear nature of time and the tendency of electrolytic capacitors to leak or turn into resistors with the passage of time, I suspect a board pre-heater or a full reflow station would be a valuable addition to the cave. I think an ultrasonic cleaner bath large enough to accept large boards would also not go amiss, as it can make removing flux and deep-cleaning cartridge and other press-fit connectors much easier. Curiously enough, it isn't recommended as the first step in repairing boards as it can make it more difficult to trace faults by removing the telltale evidence of board damage. Having a board heating station can make it a lot easier to get surface mount components to let go with minimal additional heat required from a heat gun and it can also help you use solder paste to place multiple surface-mount components at a time by allowing you to use a larger lower volume head to gently heat the solder to its melting point without needing to also heat the ground plane excessively.
Another successful repair. Well done guys.
Loved this series, what a awesome machine you've acquired there sir! :)
oh no! i need my weekly dose of recapping! :D
my pc-engine duo R says hi to its brother! lovely pac!
Great series all in all Neil, really enjoyed it!
Thanks Pixels
The PC engine is such an interesting machine. So much cooler looking than the TurboGrafx16. I never understood why they changed the name.
maaybe because it sounds like graphic card
they changed it due to the name was Misleading in a way, they also changed the size as people wanted a bigger console
Awesome. Got a question - I’m guessing there aren’t any capacitor kits available for something so niche, so where would you get small numbers of caps from at a reasonable cost? Or do you need to get larger packs? I’m in the uk if that helps :)
Places like console5.com sell the packs. They are also a good reference for the list of caps needed so you can buy from RS Components, Farnell or other UK suppliers.
Fantastic job with fantastic patience :)
Another great team up, good work guys.
Great content, as usual. 'nuff said.
Nice work guys
By far the best use of a laserdisc in 2019.
What screwdriver did you use to remove the screws at the back of the PAC's? As far as I can tell they may be "System Zero" head's but I cannot find out what size?
Nice restoration. I quite enjoy recapping however I can completely understand if you don't feel the same way after this project.
:screams and runs:
Vinegar neutralizes the electrolyte.
Does isopropyl neutralize vinegar, or just wash it off?
Does it make sense to completely remove the vinegar from washing the circuit board with water? With subsequent drying.
(google translate)
Solder Paste/Hot Air rework is much more successful with a preheater on the board. The board sinks away a lot of heat, so the hot air alone is very inefficient. You are not only having to heat the joint, but also the board around the joint with the hot air.
Hi Neil - a few years late, but I just noticed you have "Sega PAC-N1" in the description - should that be NEC?
Nice spot thank you!
👏 More 👏 Recapping 👏 Videos 👏
Amazing work! I'd use Rondo of Blood to test music quality.
That tin bismuth alloy solder has real problems with use on equipment which had lead solder like this. The inter-alloy formed can melt at temps as low as 95C. Not recommended.
Neil done it again.
He is alive!
3:45 yeah babe, take it off, nice and slow 😂
Nice Video. I want a Laser Active now, even if it is just because that looks like the easiest machine to change belts on that I have ever seen.
Good luck with the capacitors... :p
This looks good Neil... beer and about to watch! 😎
This modular design with various console "cartridges" is just insane.
Thursday Nights = Pub, then RetroManCave
Cheers!
@@RMCRetro What a ridiculously incredible bit of kit. Didn't realize this was even a thing. Fantastic!
Me neither until last year. It's a rabbit hole when you start exploring Japanese auction sites!
@@RMCRetro i daredn't.
Btw, I'd love to try solder paste, bc I'm a mess soldering haha
Sounds like Glenn Ponder composed the PC Engine CD soundtrack for DD2 :)
Pc Engine was such a mythical beast back-in-the-day, always surprised they never released a EU version.
For things like ICs solder paste is normally applied using stencils. If you are making dozens of boards it is worth getting one made, but probably not for a one off especially if some components have already been fitted. A more general comment, are you using an Anti-Static wrist strap when you are handling complex boards like that ? I will admit that I have only once damaged a component (an EPROM) with static. That was about a fortnight after telling someone it had never happened to me. Blow any IC in a system like the LaserActive and it is unlikely you would ever get the board it is on working again.
What’s the name of the game at 13:24?
That's ChaseHQ
Chase HQ by the looks of it.
@@RMCRetro finally I found it, as I played the NES version when I was a kid and forgot about it for many years. Remembering only the intro with the radio panel.
You should cast those capaciters in Resin and make coasters.
That's actually a really fun idea. I'll look into this
@@RMCRetro It'd be pretty unique, and with all of that pain and suffering you and Mark could have the satisfaction of them holding your tea for you.
I am surprised no one has created a Super Nintendo/Super Famicom pak as mod for Laser Active.
Man, that's a wonderful machine!
Now all you have to do is rgb mod the laser active system it's been done and looks nice
Thought that looked a smart piece of hardware until I saw how big it actually was!
It's certainly a big old unit
What is the into music track? I like it! Great video Neil keep it up on here! Been following you now for a long time now because I found your Amiga 500 trash to treasure video and I've been hooked since
Thank you! Here you go... ruclips.net/video/gdD-Ctwkf2s/видео.html
sorry neil seems my account is hacked chunkybeats79
@@doubtfulalf9391 is that Home and Away Alf? 😂
@@RMCRetro yeah it's a running joke with my brother
That intro music sounds like a remix of set the controls for the heart of the sun pink floyd!
It's really a shame how much technology is sitting in the dump from that period and onward, just because of low-quality passive components.
12:36 So, this has no DRM? LOL
I've got a genesis and a DVD player in my basement I'll let go for a mere $300 if the repair isn't successful. Great vid I can't lie I want one of these.
my game gear had the same crappy SMD electrolytic caps
I'm having trouble finding the previous episode where the sega pack is repaired
Here you go ruclips.net/video/YKTzZHywlUY/видео.html
@@RMCRetro Thanks :)
I wonder if anyone ever made a laserdisc writer? Although where would ever find media!?!
Hi I am from the Future with the answer to your request and a link to Techmoan's video!
ruclips.net/video/KQ-yIsrOUU8/видео.html
another brill vid!
Can you do a retro recovery of the Apple //c portable computer?
Would love to. They are pretty rare in these parts
Released from Captivity... genius.
I recommend that people not try solder paste, it tastes terrible!
It doesn't stop cavities either
Hi, first of all congratulations for the video... I would really like to live near you, because I also have a complete set of Pioneer Laser Active but here in Italy I can't find anyone capable of fixing it for me!!!😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Gary shall be pleased, pack the unit with some spare pants ^^
Watching this is giving me PTSD of my unit.
You should livestream yourself recapping the boards...
We did! You can often find me live while filming these videos at twitch.tv/theretromancave
I can confirm this as I was there with@@RMCRetro!
I think Mark meant 'coupling capacitors'...not 'a couple of...';-)
Just recap, no more recapping?
You should have used high quality x7r capa
probably sounds like a daft question this. but here goes.. if capacitors are prone to leakage.. then is there any other technology you can use that doesn't leak?
You can substitute the electrolytic caps with ceramic or multilayered ceramic chip capacitors (MLCC) and many do with good results. It's not as clear cut as some people make out though as substitutes can have different performance specifications which cause unintended results. They are also more expensive especially in this quantity. So in short, yes there are alternatives and yes they are often just fine, but when someone says "just swap them out with ceramics and forget about them" it's worth doing a little research first.
ahh i didn't know any of that. thanks for the info :)
@@bazza5699 What Neil said. Solid State capacitors behave differently and are not applicable to every task. They are also typically found in smaller values than electrolytics capacitors.
I worked in SMT production, jet printers aren't as good as screen printed. We never used a jet printer due to cost and quality problems.
Hang fire... solder paste never really got jet printed... ever... For the most part it's screen printed, a bit like how some t-shirt logos were done. Although saying that, when I was working for Herald Electronics one of my jobs was to process X-Y data for a Mydata 500 Solder Printer... The 500 we had was totally fresh out of development and the guy from Mydata didn't really know how the bloody thing would work either... Quite a lot of stuff built using the prototype MY500 got returned because it wasn't soldered properly...
12:26 Piracy.
Yarrrrrrrr
TurboDisc?
No. It's just the way I sit.
Karaoke or bust
Those cheap wan hung low caps are crap Neil and thanks to Mark Payne for his solder paste tutorial. I just use 0.4mm 60/40 solder and my soldering station it works for me .. I love episodes with the laserdisk very interesting 🤩🤩🤩🤩Kim🤩🤩🤩🤩
You must be sick to the back teeth with capacitors.
I'm fine.... Mark on the other hand... 😂
Little bit.
Sick to the back teeth? That must be a British expression.
@@herbiehusker1889 Indeed.
Been doing the same lately. Got my fill of solder fumes. It isn't glamorous work, but somebody's gotta do it. :-)
I would love on of those machine, but I don't have the money or the technical skill required to repair one. Having low income is a pain lol. Oh well guess I shouldn't be mentally ill :(
This was quite the rollercoaster to read. I'll be taking this to some expos so hopefully more people who haven't got access to one can experience it a little
Try to shove a 32x into it!
You got 50,000 on Double Dragon???