yeah I've thought that also, maybe at least one flagship station per market area, and keep the analog on VHF 2 thru 6 (since that's nearly worthless for ATSC anyway) 😎👍
Surely we have the capability to do so, thus meaning if shit does hit the fan, there’s a fair chance the government would be forced to use such systems.
While NTSC had its faults, it was still supremely clever for the engineers to find a way to include the additional color signals while maintaining compatibility and without increasing bandwidth. Not to mention that this feat was accomplished with really primitive technology when the first nationwide color program was broadcast nearly 70 years ago.
Never twice the same colour, the British engineer said to me. Yes it was a good system. The truth is digital gets more channels out but the system sucks unless you are perfectly still and no ghosting.
@@markanderson350 Even if the viewer is sitting still, moving things like trees, the wind, reflected signals from vehicles, all wreck the digital signals where I am. My home is only a kilometer from the TV tower but there are tons of trees in the way. The digital signal is both strong AND trash all at the same time.
@@markanderson350 Yes, a lot of TV's don't include much info on the signal strength and quality. Have an older 32" Toshiba that actually tells you the RF channel as well as SNR and strength and peak RSL. It's a nice feature that I wish others would include. I'm pretty sure all the same silicon ATSC tuner chips have this information available, but none of the manufactures take advantage and just have a BAD/GOOD/BEST meter..
Engineers in the past had to be much more imaginative than nowadays. The navigation computer for the Apollo 11 Moon landing project had only 2k of RAM. When you watch "Apollo 13," keep that in mind. And if you have ever seen the guts of an old, pre-electronic automatic transmission, well, they're stunningly beautiful.
You hit the nail on the head as always, a weak analog signal can still be viewed and heard, even with levels of snow and audio distortion compared to a digital signal that breaks up and stutters, and then just drops out. Its just too bad we don't leave some RF space for just analog TV, and let it exist alongside Digital TV.
its absolutely excellent for emergency use, everybody can receive them, better usability with bad snr, it honestly would be really smart to have space for maybe a few analog channels alongside digital.
The further north you travel in Canada, the more analog channels there are. Southern Ontario is mandated to be a digital market, while everywhere else further north are allowed to continue broadcasting on analog. For example, living in Timmins we have 2 analog channels, and 1 digital channel. It's fantastic to just be able to tune in to a static filled analog channel in town. Channel 3 and channel 11 are analog while 13.1 is digital.
The requirement is based on population. Also, all provincial capitals were required to switch to digital in 2011. Territorial capitals were also originally required to switch, but got exempted virtually at the last minute. The CBC also got to delay switching by a couple of years. Also, many vintage TV hobbyists have very low power analog stations running on their properties. You may pick them up while passing on the street. Our government didn't provide funding for free converters. So we had to buy our own, many with extra features, like PVRs, etc, not allowed on the state provided boxes in the USA. I remember in the late 1960s in Winnipeg using an attic mounted antenna to receive channel 12 from Pembina, ND, before getting cable.The station actually provided antennae to viewers who wanted them. That is no longer possible, as the digital signal is not usable north of Niverville. Even Winnipeg's CITY-TV (CMHI), channel 13.1 is almost impossible to get, as its transmitter is in Elie. It was fine in analog. If only that station was registered in Portage la Prairie, where its master control used to be back when it was Manitoba Television Network (MTN), it would still be allowed to transmit in analog.
The shutting down of those Canadian repeaters had a real, negative impact on the availability of TV content, especially to rural viewers. It also increased the need for a cable subscription for anyone looking for more than one or two channels.
I think the best course of action is to transmit your own signals by taking digital tv, converting it into analog tv and transmitting it that way. I’m not sure about the legality of that though
Tyler, the fact that you made this trip for this purpose makes you the coolest guy in the world!! I miss analog TV with all its interference and ghosting. And as a Canadian I want to say you are welcome here anytime!
While you're right that a big problem with OTA television in Canada is the ownership of commercial stations, the CBC - our national broadcaster - set the precedent by shutting down 620 analogue repeaters in 2012, leaving only 27 digital transmitters covering the biggest markets. The idea of a "national" broadcaster that's publicly funded but doesn't bother to cover the vast majority of the country continues to be absurd to me.
I was always under the impression that a big reason for the extensive OTA in the US was down to far more protective local carriage laws for cable and satellite. I can’t recall all the details, but I seem to recall the jist of it being that the OTA signal must be “available” in a specific area in order for it to be allowed to be carried on cable and satellite. In Canada, there is no such requirement. Hell, the basic satellite channel packages include the local channels for most of the markets in Canada.
Satellites packages in Canada include most all local network stations because there is enough spectrum for them. And media companies consolidating stations helped that
@@Satoshi9801 They’re part of the basic package on satellite only. No one is forced to pay extra…they’re just included by default. I recall looking at DirecTV packages back in the early 2000s, and reading something about how it was against FCC regulations to give access to one markets local channels if one resides in a different market. Something about protecting the marketing rights of the local stations. Contrast to Canada where every markets locals were included in the basic package, to the point it was touted as a feature due to being able to time shift.
@@DB-bw5fz OK, but doesn't one have to pay money to get satellite service, whereas anyone with a TV and antenna can get OTA for free? I don't suppose Canada's satellite providers just give away dishes and basic service to your average Joe in say, Dryden?
Thanks for coming up to Canada Tyler had a great conversation with you was glad to have you over to visit. I'm glad that you came to Canada in the first place you visited was the Breakwater Pier
I know what you mean. Pulling in a far-off analog station like a scientist getting a signal from a world beyond our solar system. "This is WEYI 25 TV Saginaw/Bay City." Holy smokes, how far away is that???
Tyler: "So, we're going to talk about antennas." Robbie: "Right on, yeah!" (Oh, wait, I have a line, don't I? What was it again? Oh, right...) "No, I want to talk about satellites!"
In my travels the last year or so , I found analog signals in SW FL. Four different ones were visible. And they had short range as well, only a few miles.
I didn't realize how important signal strength was until I tried getting in digital stations. I then was able to use that knowledge to get analog stations in better. Many who lived in rural areas put in satellite dishes when they became available because cable wasn't an option.
The new ATSC 3.0 tuner along with improved internet technology being rolled out will remedy this situation in remote areas. Unfortunately it's not happening fast enough and could've easily been in place half a decade or more ago.
As a Canadian who was reliant upon Canadian cable TV, one of my biggest peeves was simultaneous substitution. That's when when if a Canadian TV station was broadcasting the same US program as a US station at the same time, the cable company would override the US station feed with the Canadian station with all of their Canadian commercials. So you have the same Canadian station feed on 2 or more channels. The Canadian stations do own the rights to broadcast these shows in Canada, and the cable companies still do it. I think it's much better now, but back in the 70s and 80s my local cable anyway was lousy at it. First off, many times the US show on the Canadian channel was of a lower video and/or audio quality, looked like a copy of a copy. And the Canadian version would have about two minutes of an hour program omitted to make room for more Canadian ads. And so many, many many times they would just forget(!!!) to switch off the Canadian feed when the show was over. You'd miss the next program on the US channel because the same Canadian channel would be on it. Often I'd just go to bed and the cable still hadn't switched the Canadian feed off when they should have hours earlier. The only way around this was... you guessed it.. an antenna!
My parents are deceased; (I live in NY) - but that was MY biggest peeve when I visited them in Ontario (back when). The substitution rules were so annoying. And yes, it was always known that Canadian channels had MORE ads in a given hour, than the US nets. Now however, the amount of ads allowed is double in the US... so that aspect of it might've changed. I'm also old enough to remember back in the 70's...Canadian stations used to air their US shows several days BEFORE they aired in the US! Or it was sometimes on the same day, but maybe an hour sooner. Cable was new in Canada, so there were no subbing laws yet. It was probably in the 80's-90's when the Canadian nets started mimicking air-times with the US nets --- when those awful sim-sub rules went into effect. I believe satellite carriers in Canada are required to do the same thing.
@@Lightsngear For a while back in the day we had both Candian cable and an outdoor antenna. When the cable would do the simultaneous substitution thing, I would always make sure to watch the American shows on the antenna to watch the actual American channels (from Detroit in my case.) The quality was always much better.
Interesting video. In the late 1980's, I use to go near cell towers with my Watchman TV. Then, I use to tune to the upper UHF band and listen to other peoples' cell phone conversations. This was when cellphones were all analog and not encrypted. Today, you would probably hear the encrypted, digital signals resulting from people's cell phone conversations.
There's a RUclips video of someone doing the same thing with a home set. That must've been so much fun! I'm bummed that I was born to late to experience this. Then again, I might not have been a successful RUclips if I didn't grow up in the amazing tech era.
@@AntennaMan What was more interesting, during the early 1980's, is that when cable TV first came out everyone was splitting it and pirating it like crazy. For a while it was legal to do so until the laws caught up. In spite of the laws catching up, once the signal entered into a private residence, the resident(s) were allowed to do whatever they wanted with the signal. This ment if a scrambled signal entered a private resident's property, you could legally unscramble it, watch it, and not have to pay anything. I don't know what the laws are now a days, but, those were some good times because for a while, you could legally get a lot of cable channels, not pay anything for them, and there was nothing the cable companies could do about it. To combat all of the piracy, later on, the cable companies placed signal filters (traps), at the poles, so the signal would not even reach a non-subscriber's property. When you subscribed, a technician would come out and remove the filter and vs. vs.
In the 1970s we could use our walkie talkies to listen in to "party line" phone calls by touching the extended walkie talkie antenna to the support guide wire of the neighborhood telephone poles. We played "spy" this way. Best summer activity only to be replaced by getting an Atari with a free Space Invaders cartridge with purchase. Good times.
Thanks Tyler for another great video. Really enjoyed watching you look at the Canadian TV market especially as it still has analogue TV. Sadly I'm too young to truly remember the days when analogue ruled the airwaves. Your videos have been a great insite into this forgotten part of TV broadcasting. It would great if you could do a video looking at other countries and ther TV markets. I'm from the UK and most people still get the most popular channels from OTA broadcasts despite the rise of cable and satellite. I think you would find it really interesting to compare the US and UK on this front. I know its a much further distance then US to Canada maybe you could find a local expert to interview on the topic. Thanks again for the video.
Thanks for showing us that NTSC analog TV is still out there. I do miss analog TV DXing that I started in 1960 when I started high school and along with AM, FM, and Shortwave, then going on to Amateur Radio in 1962. I used to take B&W Polaroid photos off the TV screen and with a letter send then to the distant TV stations, up to about 1000 or more miles away. A fellow ham who is in the broadcasting field for many years, stated that NTSC TV had a robust signal I haven't had much success with receiving distant HDTV signals.
It's probably harder now to do any ATSC TV DXing now because all the signals that were spread out from 2-69 have now all been consolidated to 2-36. So that puts a lot more channels closer together with fewer quiet channels nearby to try and tune on. Especially when that channel your trying to scan has half a dozen TV stations on it now all across the country and adding noise, and noise trashes any chance of getting digital.
Here in the EU the last countries to switch off their analog transmitters did so in 2013. Many countries actually switched standards the second time (from DVB-T to DVB-T2, and/or switching codecs). Switzerland actually decided to phase out terrestrial TV completely due to everybody watching cable or satellite. So it's kind of surreal, seeing those noisy analog pictures still going in one of the richest and most developed places in the world. Analog cable is still a thing in Europe, though - albeit only in a limited capacity. Some providers put analog versions of just a handful of the most basic free-to-air channels into their cables. Some no longer do so.
In northern Italy many people spent money to install an antenna pointed to Switzerland to watch swiss TV, a small percent because of the superior professionalism of swiss TV compared to italian TV but mostly for sport events that in Italy were available only on pay TV. Terrestrial switch off was a sad day for many italians. Bonus fact: cable TV was never a thing in Italy outside of very small and short lived "experiments"
It's amazing how far the analog signal gets. Here in Brazil, the analog signal was a mixture of the M video system with PAL color coding, the best of both worlds, the 60Hz of the American system with the perfect colors of the European system. Unfortunately it has already been deactivated. The current system is a Brazilian variation of the Japanese ISDB-T (SBTD-T) standard. This standard uses COFDM multiplexing with QAM-64 modulation on the 12 main segments and QAM-16 on the 13th segment. Even this robust coding scheme doesn't come close to the range and reliability of the old analog system. I remember the advertisements saying that digital would go further.
Digital can go further (see my explanation at the beginning of this video). The problem is broadcasters want a high efficiency which means they need to use higher order modulations in order to cram more bandwidth into the same 6 MHz. It's called spectral efficiency and it's mentioned in bits/Hz. The more bits, the higher your signal to noise ratio has to be in order to properly receive a signal. In other words you need a stronger signal in comparison. Also many digital transmitters, at least here in Europe, have less power compared to the old analogue systems. So more spectral efficiency and less power means a horrible reception. In the military they use signals with a very low spectral efficiency and a very high error correction rate in war zones just to make the signal very resilient to interference (f.e. jamming) in an attempt to make sure the signal is received on the other end. It's one of the reasons why they made GPS the way it is. And even these systems are not perfect. They also use directional antenna's to get as much signal as possible and cancel out as much interference from other directions. QAM is a very prone to interference. There are basically 3 components in a wave you can use to transmit information. Frequency, Amplitude and Phase. QAM tries to be the best in all 3 making it very efficient but also very sensitive. This sensitivity could already be observed in NTSC where the color information was transmitted on a higher frequency in QAM inside the monochrome baseband signal without any error correction. This caused the (in)famous hue errors. This was corrected in PAL by applying a few analogue error corrections which basically is an automatic tint control making a tint knob on PAL systems unnecessary. Fundamentally PAL is not that different from NTSC. It also uses QAM for color information. Satellite signals were usually broadcast with only frequency components because the high frequencies made it prone to deep fading during weather changes. Most analogue satellites even used FM for video modulation while all other systems (terrestial, cable) used AM for video. FM video is horrible from a spectral efficiency perspective as where you only need 6-8 MHz for an AM video signal you need 20-30 MHz for an FM video signal with the same fidelity. But from a reliability perspective it was excellent. Deep fading is really bad for amplitude modulated signals. That's why until recently only QPSK and 8PSK was used for satellite and other high performance systems. But there is a change to APSK modulation coming which is somewhat similar to QAM but the difference is the amplitude changes are more in line with the phase of the signal making it less prone to certain types of interference. But in the end, nothing beats a good properly directed and aligned antenna. It doesn't matter what kind of signal you're trying to receive. It's worth nothing if you have a $10,000 receiver if you have a $5 antenna that's not even installed in the right direction. That's why Tyler's business is so successful. There is no magic indoor antenna that gives excellent reception under any circumstance. The magic is putting the right antenna in the right direction at the right place. If you apply this magic you will have decent error free reception 99% of of the time.
@@robinheijblom2929 Your comment is a real enlightening lesson. You brought several aspects that I already knew but with a perspective where everything fits together. Thanks.
@@arthurgamerpro6585 ok e por que você está fazendo essa pergunta em um canal do youtube sobre TV sobre antena? Você deve entrar em contato com a embaixada dos EUA. Eles podem te contar tudo sobre o que você precisa como cidadão brasileiro para entrar nos EUA Eu realmente não falo português, mas eu tenho o google tradutor 😁
I wish I had OTA in my area. One of my fondest memories as a kid was being able to watch TV with an antenna. Because we were dirt poor, we couldn't afford cable most of the time. My stepdad brought home an amplified Gemini set top antenna one day and it was awesome!
Well, we were poor too, but the biggest reason that we didn't have cable was that it wasn't available in our area at the time. It was a big boon to the local video-rental place that every weekend, we'd rent movies, as there was basically nothing to watch on ABC, CBS, NBC, or PBS (the only channels we got). Though, we got cable when I was around 10 (I remember the cable company coming around to see if there were enough people interested to make it worth their while, and our neighbors getting it long before we did), and the video-rental place shortly went out of business. I've been meaning to go there to see what's up where that video-rental place used to be, but I haven't gotten around to it (there's probably nothing there, as pretty much everything closed down during the COVID-19 pandemic).
In Canada we called those free stations “farmer vision”. It was 2 or 3 channels you could pick up and that was it. I grew up through the late 70’s and all of the 80’s watching that. Or C-Band satellite tv.
As a kid growing up in a valley in Western Mass, we had a 1000ft elevation mountain on each side of our town. I was surprised when I went down to the basement to see my dad working on a TV. He was only using a pair of rabbit ears and it was picking up Ch 6 great out of Schenectady, NY. not available via our roof top antenna at 40 ft. The strongest signals for VHF channels on the opposite side of the mountain, were generally obtained near the ground, vs. up in the air, unless you were on top of the mountain. Low VHF follows the contour of the earth rather well in hilly areas. If an FM or low band VHF antenna doesn't work well up in the air and you have hills, bring it down near the ground. Also, VHF full power stations before digital ran 100k watts. When they converted to digital, for whatever reason, power was dramatically cut. VHF Hi band, generally ran 316k watts. Today with digital, they run VERY low power levels making rabbit ear reception worthless, whereas before they pickup the channels well. Tyler, you generally trash VHF, but I suggest it's not VHF as much as it's the meager power levels being used with digital transmitters today. WVPI most likely operated analog previously with 100k, but today operate with 53k. Yet, the FCC shows they have the SAME VERY large contour. The FCC shows the same contours for most stations that went from analog to digital, while ERP was dropped by more than 50%. Why??? Even our local ASTC 3.0 channels show the SAME contour footprint, with transmitter power cut dramatically. This may not have been the choice by the station, but possibly a mandate by the FCC to reduce power levels, possibly to accomodate more low power stations. Either that, or the engineers who determine these power reductions and contour charts don't actually use an antenna to get reception!
The super low power limits definitely contribute to the VHF band being "trash." The FCC cut the power limits when they sold a chunk of TV spectrum to cell phone companies to prevent TV stations on the same RF channel in nearby markets from interfering with each other. If they hadn't sold so much spectrum there would be a lot more spacing between channels and thus higher power would be okay. I feel bad for stations on the VHF band. Their broadcast signals are starved of power needed to cover their market.
@WirelessNut It's fine for analog, trash for digital. It's not just the antennas either. Even with a correct VHF/UHF combo antenna, VHF channels are ALWAYS the ones that are problematic because of interference and noise. There's a reason why most countries no longer use VHF for TV broadcasting AND why TV stations on the VHF band are applying to move to the UHF band. The band is TRASH for DTV.
After 29 years as a Shaw/Rogers cable customer I cancelled my cable when Shaw switched off the old cable boxes in an attempt to force people into their internet/streaming tv packages. I switched to a home made OTA antenna and get all the local channels crystal clear and added in a few free streaming services like plex, tubi etc. Good bye cable company!
Never seen any of your videos before but delighted to take a chance on this from my recommended feed. What fun tracking down analogue TV broadcasts - long gone here in the UK but great fun to see it still hanging on out there!
As someone who is a strong enthusiast for retro technology (including analog TV), I am glad there is someone who appreciates analog TV as much as I do. Despite the fact that it's seen as obsolete, it still has its own hidden perks. For example, I find that analog TV's poor signal (fuzzy screen) is easier to follow along to than digital's poor signal (buffering, choppy picture, screen unable to load, no signal at all, etc). As a bonus, the static from analog TV's can be a good white noise machine. Nostalgia as well as historic preservation factors into the importance of analog TV as it was the first method TV was broadcast. It's great we have access to digital TV and steaming now, but I wish analog TV was preserved more and not lost to time. It would be nice if analog TV stations were still on the air at least for certain groups of people who might need or want it, such as people who live in remote areas who can't pick up digital signals or enthusiasts for analog technology like me. Also, if it wasn't for the existence of analog, we might not have digital, so I would like to see more respect for that piece of history.
I miss TV Signals that look like crap. I remember the days of rooftop antennas and getting several states away at night. That static is beautiful to see. I live in Michigan and remember getting Ohio, Indiana, and even Kentucky. It was amazing. Now you cannot even get the next market over. It's sad.
Yes....when I was a teenager my dad and I constructed a stacked antenna setup on VHF and we could receive tv signals from long distances. With a rotator it was fun doing TV DX.
Nobody asked US American and Canadian watchers if we want to keep analog NTSC TV. We need it back if TV is going to reappear in taxis, backyard picnics, and kitchens. I never trashed any analog TV's and I only watch broadcast digital in lobbies.
@@900Yugo Why do we even have these systems? Europe has something else. Satellite has something else. NTSC encouraged distant viewing. Allows movement? That sounds like a board argument. Clueless.
@@stanleybest8833 Your right. It's just another attempt to shove more trash down our throat. All so you can get more HSN, QVC and Multi Level Marketing TV begging you to buy buy buy and buy. And when your done buying that junk, BUY MORE. Most of the added channels that are put out on digital OTA TV now are just trash channels anyhow. Most I know don't even watch regular TV anymore. It's all trash nowadays.
Ah Yes one of my Favorite videos from Antenna Man I want all the analog TV stations still broadcasting 2022S to be Alive they all need a Comebacks and FCC leave us alone and leave analog TV stations Alone let them Live
I'm all for digital (preferably ATSC 3.0) but it needs to exist alongside analog. I also wish HD radio would've been the new standard for radio worldwide thus continuing to get the analog channels along with digital sub channels.
I don't know why I'm so happy to see this, but I am. It's a marvel you can still experience this in its true form anywhere. I know I definitely have a slight rose-tinted memory of how clean and clear OTA was in the 90's, but more often than not we dealt with questionable signal quality. In particular, any of the channels in the Boston market by way of our third floor apartment in Pawtucket 45 miles away.
When we had a rotor on the roof that failed, but really wanted to watch that weekend special on the channel out-of-market. So got up on the ladder with a wrench and rotated the big antenna mast by hand!
That's fantastic! Hate to hear it's going away. There's something to be said for analog TV (and radio) and their ability to transmit great distances in real time.
Thanks for another great video, and yes I would love to see more videos about Canadian TV stations, or even other states. Love your RUclips channel, I watch every new video that you post, and I've gone far back in your catalog as well. Have an awesome day
Love this channel, I'm into retro TVs (Mostly from the 30's-50's) and though I don't usually watch antenna I do when I'm using my retro tv (Like they did back in the day lmao), even if its not analog, it's still antenna.
I'm in Canada. Not too far from where you visited, closer to Toronto. You're reporting of our situation here is spot on. Where I live their are no analog channels available . In fact, i'm in a great reception area and can reliably receive 43 DTV stations, mostly American plus all the local Toronto and Hamilton are stations. Unfortunately its a sad fact that the cable companies were allowed to own most of these OTA stations rather than them being independantly owned and operated, which has all but destroyed OTA television in Canada. It wasn't always like this. This is the fault of the CRTC.
Hi Andrew, I fully agree with you. I remember when CKTM-TV Channel 13 came on the air reaching our farm, north or Trois-Rivieres in April, 1958, what an event! We were one of the first few farmers to have a television in our community but no reception. My grand-parents hosted a party at our farmhouse for the neighbors when CKTM-TV came on the air - for us kids, it was "magic"! CKTM-TV was an affiliate of the French network (Radio-Canada) of CBC but it also included a lot of local productions significant for the large rural communities of the part of Quebec. Sadly enough, by 2008 - this local transmitter (along with several radio stations) which had entertained and informed several generations in the past, was "dissolved" and integrated in the urban Montreal Radio-Canada station. Peace be with you, Ciao from Saint Maurice, L
hey you mentioned my city of watertown! Anyway what I miss most about analog tv is that the sound tends to still be good enough with a weak signal. digital tv just completely unwatchable when reception is poor, but with analog tv, the sound still keeps the show at least listenable. I wish they did something with the digital signal design to prioritize redundant sound somehow so you could still at least listen even with spotty reception.
My mother had this portable black and white TV with a radio. She got it in 1983. It didn’t worked now these days. I don’t know what happened to it. It was cool back in 1984 to watched TV in the back of the van when I was a teenager. Even my sister and I even asked our parents to put on a good radio station or play a cassette tape.
Its a decent picture and plus my low power UHF Transmitter setup has a decent picture As long as we can make our own lower power setups Analog TV will still live on
I live in Montreal 's southshore and with a small preamped yogi rca antenna I'm able to catch 33 channels. 10 canadians and 23 americans (mostly from burlington vt). American channels have many subchannels that still broadcast in sd ! I was surprised to see that. We don 't have that here and it 's all boradcasted in hd or full hd (720 or 1080). A video on canadian market would be great. Here in Québec we also have french tv channels! I'm happy to be a cord cutter thanks for all the tips on your channel.
Please! Yes to a deep dive for Over the Air in Canada. My wife is American and I'm always in awe of what my in-laws are able to get off air in the greater Cleveland area compared to 100km West of Toronto
I've just checked on the sdr sharp airspy server and I noticed around the Chile area of South America there are still at least 3 strong analogue channels there still broadcasting on Band I !
I may be biased, but I absolutely LOVE the idea of you doing a video on the state of television in the great white north! Sadly, Canada's followed the UK approach to broadcasting, in that nearly all network affiliates are owned-and-operated... not so much like the USA where you have O&O's and privately-owned affiliates... i'd be glad to answer any questions you have about how we do things up here...
Yes, but watch the market trend. Verizon and AT-T submitted bids for more than 80 billion of a chunk of our C-band as well as taking over most of our UHF band. The owners of the frequency spectrum are pushing out the independents, with FCC concurrence. We had 1 small independent that built a 2nd station recently. As soon as that second station came on the air, even without programming, they were immediately sold to one of the huge mega station corporations. If the FCC continues to allow the big corporations to buy out the independents, there will be a time when no more small independents exist. While it may not be govt. owned and controlled like Canada, it still means a huge control by these few major corporations, who must answer to our govt. We may be moving in your direction.
Tyler, thanks for traveling so far to Canada to capture the last analog TV channel and sharing your experience. Analog TV, due to it's greater range, was always of interest to us TV DX'ers who made it a hobby to scan the TV band for distant (DX) stations. When I lived in NE PA back in the '80's, stations from FL and as far away as IA would occasionally be picked up on an analog TV when band conditions were favorable. Digital signals have pretty much put an end to long distance TV DX but short haul DX is still possible. I have a related question for the group: does anyone know if TV stations occasionally turn on their analog xmitter for testing purposes? Reason I am asking is that a few years ago I was occasionally receiving analog TV from stations that had gone digital.
Growing up in Indiana we only had 3 main channels and an independent UHF channel. What I liked most about analog was all the extra channels you could pick up after it rained. We were getting channels from Kentucky and Ohio. I remember watching Emergency and the Wild Wild West when they weren't scheduled on any of my local channels. Even though it was just temporary it is one my favorite memories.
Yeah! I was fascinated by the (unknown to me) distant TV stations our antenna would catch when the atmosphere would change. It was only temporary, but it was kind of thrilling. Maybe now that I'm an adult it wouldn't excite me as much. Most things don't! 😣
This is the first video I'm seeing of this channel and seeing/hearing that old static means so much to me. There's a big part of me that longs to go back to the way it used to be. That static has come a long way, from the beginning of the universe, to reach us. I love seeing it.
I have a completely different question, you mentioned TV Fool. Does anyone know what happened to the site owners? It hasn't been updated for years, and sometimes it's been off line for months at a time. If the old owners can't maintain it anymore, I wish they would at least pass it on to someone who can.
Yeah, this site was really useful for its signal prediction maps. The guy did a ton of work on having all those maps made, then like you said the sites been abandoned. Odd because it does have banner ads etc.
I put a VHF antenna on the peak of my house outside of Middletown NY before the digital transition and could receive NBC on channel 3 out of Philadelphia. Incredible distance.
Was that before late 1995? That year we and many other cities in the US had the 'big switch' where the networks changed channels in local markets. NBC is currently on 10 here and CBS is on 3. ABC & Fox remained on 6 and 29, respectively.
Australia was originally due to shut down analogue TV by the end of 2008, but circumstances delayed that. Eventually it happened during 2012-13. Brisbane shut down analogue in 2013.
Love the analog TV, do you? Sadly the US Government decided to give the spectrum to the big cell phone providers and remember the old excuse that the analog shut down was meant to improve the emergency communications after the September 11 attacks in 2001? Well, I don't see that excuse as valid, cause it was meant to benefit Verizon, TMobile and AT&T in the first place.... Did I mentioned crappy "Dish Boost Mobile" too? Go figure! But asides that, loved the little argument about antennas and satellites with Robbie!
I remember Analog TV can't support 16x9 picture as there in 4x3. I remember back in the days channel 2 & 5 always picked up RF interference from CB (11 Meters) +10 & 12 Meter Ham Radio operators.
my family's 1st TV was a 19" Zenith B&W and their were 6 channels in our town and all but 1 turned off at midnight . good to know that some didn't need that digital converter box .
I think NTSC should be kept alive as a budget option for those who have cheap TV's, since eBay is selling CRT TV's with built-in antennas significantly cheaper than a modern digital TV. I think it is incredibly stupid to kill off a reliable format entirely. I think there should be a digitally-composed signal that is compatible with classic analog TV, while still providing support for HD and UHD. Case in point: I used an all-digital antenna and put it into my digital converter RF out (the antenna is in a mixed concrete and wooden basement, so it isn't going anywhere other than where my Sony Watchman is) and was able to watch "Night Court" on my portable 1984 Sony Watchman. While the video was expectedly snowy, it was presentable and the audio was crystal clear.
Remember when VHF-low used to be the most desirable channels? WCBS-2 & WNBC-4 & WNEW-5 from NYC and KYW-3 in Phila. VHF-high (WABC-7) was second most desirable and was also mostly assigned to the large metropolitan areas and UHF was for Scranton-Wilkes Barre, Harrisburg and Hartford type markets.
*Your videos are always the best do receive a notification each time you post a new video.. We'll have regrets for things we did not participate in...Investment should always be on any creative man's heart for success in life.*
Wow! Stumbled over here on the same Richard Davis, which my colleagues at work always attest to his great experience in Investment. Good deeds they say, fly easily.... Richard is great!!
Snowy pictures rule! Picking up an analog signal from 100 miles away, as long as they're marginally intelligible, is far more enjoyable to me than a crystal clear signal from 10 miles away
Knowing that the majority of people I know have cut cable and satellite (let alone analog TV) and switched over to streaming services (Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Amazon Prime Video, etc), I am surprised as well.
Reminds me of when I was a kid in southern Connecticut, we could pick up WFSB 3 and WTNH 8 with rabbit ears. WTNH moved to VHF 10 after the digital transition and I still can’t reliably pick it up. But thanks to ATSC3.0 I pick up the UHF repeater out of Hartford.
Segments of Canada still use VHF, including channels 2 through 6. I learned that via northcoaster hobby -- not personal study. That may be why U.S. hasn't reallocated the frequency range to public safety broadcast etc. We can't make changes that will interfere just over the two borders.
Here's an idea for those that just don't want to bother with outdoor antennas, buy a Rotating indoor/outdoor antenna and install it on something High, one of my older Brothers did this and he picked up 16 channels or so and a bonus of 2 hard to find 5v channels CW Network and ION network 😊😊👍👍👍👍👍 antenna man good to see you having aome fun with Robbie😊😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I do miss the charm of analog "sporadic e" skip on the lower VHF channels in the summer. As a kid, I was always amazed how I could pick up a station in Louisiana from here in upstate NY. 'Probably the spark that got me into 6 meter ham radio later on.
Analog is better in the way that instead of just cutting out completely with slight signal loss, you could still get a picture, though static filled. In my opinion that makes it better in bad weather situations when people might really need at least decent reception to keep up with weather news.
Analog TV was at least more reliable than digital TV, because I was able to at least watch a channel without freezing picture, too bad we don’t have it anymore thanks to the FCC!
I grew up in Watertown, and I can't ever remember getting CII-TV over the air. We would get CKWS, the local Kingston channel, but that was it. 1:52 is that the TI Bridge I see? The Wellesley Island border crossing is one I would take all the time crossing into Canada.
Thank you for this. I was a TV enthusiast in my 20s. I put up antennas to receive TV signals from outside my market. I could get one signal on Ch 8 over 70 miles away. When I went to my grandmother's house, she only could receive 3 channels as she lived in the country. All of them had snowy pictures. Then later after college I lived in a place with cable but they didn't carry the Fox affiliate I liked so up another antenna went. (It was between two markets). Anyway all the TV "DX"ing seems to be a thing of the past. Digital signals from 30 miles away from me are unreceivable. I have a modest antique "Color" Radio Shack suburban antenna in my attic on a rotor. I get my local channels and that's it. It's the same antenna I used to use for my DXing, so it's not exactly poor.
@@brucelipsitz7545 No. HOA rules against anything on the roof. :(. Things are changing as I'm moving early next year. Hunting for a new house in a different state. No HOA is on my list.
Here in the Great Lakes, tropospheric propagation is common when a high pressure weather system is in the region. Do a rescan and you'll be surprised to see stations 90 miles away with just an attic antenna.
@ Cohort: If you are in US, I thought HOAs were precluded from imposing antenna prohibitions under OTARD rule of federal Telecommunucations Act of 1996. I had served on a HOA board with a request for a smaller satellite TV dish. Fed law prevails, our similar prohibition was unenforceable, we had to allow it. I believe same applies for OTA TV antennas. Might be worthwhile researching it, as many HOAs not aware of this.
@@garyburns4814 I never pursued having an outdoor aerial. I did have a 90cm Toroidal dish and a 70cm stearable dish back in the day. I did notify them when I put them in and cited the US law. They didn't mind mainly because they weren't visible from the street. In any event, I have a steeply pitched roof that is very high. The attic mount was much easier for a man my age. I don't need to fall anyway. Anyway, I'm a short timer in this house. My focus is going to be on removing my antennas so I can take them with me. Great questions. I've loved radio and TV since I was a teen and hope my next home will be the one where I can fulfill my dream of having an antenna farm.
This is exactly what watching antenna tv was like. I came here because even nowadays you can digitally remaster all old videos so even when they show old clips, it's still crystal clear and not how I remember it. This is what it was like
@@AntennaMan I'm going to college soon. So I seen some of your old videos about maybe getting a antenna for my dorm. And they've been really useful so far I can't get one channel on it. And when I do get any channels they're out of state. ruclips.net/channel/UCCKtJ3mIdF_tpWhukGWKG-w
Lol 4:15 I was about to ask what kinda antenna you used but now I can see what kind cause you used the box to prop up the antenna. NICE!! Thanks brother for all your hard work
Tyler, I was expecting you to say, "Why can some analog TV be picked up in some parts of the US? Is it because Aliens are rebroadcasting old intercepted signals like Jodie Foster discovered in the movie "Contact"? 😄 Another informative video, thanks! AB
@@ronald1111 Okay? Then what are you doing here? 😄It's like going to a bike shop and tell everyone you just have car! 🤣 Cars have a lot of advantages over bikes but they're also more expensive in everything. The same can be said about cable versus antenna.
I still got gram's 1974 XL 100 here. People told me to throw it out years ago. Now I can watch crummy converter letter box frame or watch stuff on a VCR for cheap to free as everyone wants rid of their VHS tapes for next to nothing. Relive the glory days of TV.
It would actually be possible to broadcast digital signals with the same or even better resistance to interference and fading as analogue. It all has to do with the Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). Whenever someone tries to cram more information into a signal it needs to be stronger in comparison. Some signals deliberately go in the opposite direction by spreading a low amount of information over a large bandwidth. GPS is one of these signals because it needs to be received with a portable antenna yet it's a satellite so it's not anywhere near like your local TV/FM radio stations. Though GPS is not in geostationary orbit at 22,236 miles altitude, it still is approximately half of that at 12,552 miles. There is only one problem. Spreading a small amount of information over a large bandwidth is very inefficient. You basically sacrifice a lot of bandwidth for extending some distance. In theory it would be possible to have an ATSC signal with only one TV station having even better performance compared to an analogue station. The international DVB-T and T2 standard allows for flexible allocation. DVB-T allows for 10-30 Mbps and DVB-T2 from 5-50 Mbps for 8 MHz. I'm not sure how much flexibility ATSC 1.0 has as the figure I keep finding is 19 Mbps for 6 MHz. But most of the time providers choose to (ab)use this flexibility by going too far into the high bandwidths making good reception only possible in and around big cities. On the other hand the bad experiences are exaggerated as with a decent properly directed outdoor antenna reception is fine. Too many people just buy those glorified coat-hangers and expect exceptional results. Some countries like Germany and France used to broadcast the PBS and Local channels at a lower more resilient bit-rate while the commercial and encrypted TV stations broadcast on a higher less resilient bit-rate and only in and around cities. In my opinion this would be a better way to go. Not sure if they still do.
Yeah, from the get go, DVB-T allowed you to adjust the bandwidth and error correction. I think this was to allow for the varied terrain conditions and what the TV station might have expected the viewer to have in terms of reception ability; roof or attic antenna, or simple indoor antenna with an urban viewer etc. However, ATSC didn't allow for adjustment of the bandwidth or the amount of error correction. 19.39Mbps is the allocated bandwidth, whatever you want to do with that is up to the station. The difference between a HD or SD subchannel in terms of redundancy and robustness is hardly negligible. A SD subchannel seems to have a little bit more robustness, but I think that's more to do with the amount of bits allocated to that subchannel and fewer chances of the signals interference hitting those fewer bits in the stream getting trashed. So it tends to hold a picture a little bit more vs a HD feed that is starting to break up. But once you start to see breakup, pretty much any of the program streams on that channel are going to get hit. I think part of the reason why ATSC didn't have these options is because work on it started earlier than DVB, and by the time DVB came along and was looking at bandwidth allocation and signal redundancy, ATSC was too far along in the standardization process. Near the debut of ATSC 1.0 Sinclair Broadcast Group became quite vocal that ATSC wasn't' living up to what they thought it should do, and DVB was showing superior performance. They wanted to petition the FCC to allow stations to choose either ATSC or DVB to broadcast. But the FCC didn't make rules to allow that option. Others were saying it was too late add another standard, when Set top Boxes and TV's were starting to be made with ATSC tuners by the major manufactures. Never mind it was only the very high end TV's and a few models of Set Top Box that had HD component outs; not the later cheap digital transition tuners, and all were 1st gen tuners with 2nd gen tuners right around the corner that promised much better reception. ATSC 3.0 however has lot's of options on robustness of each of the streams on a signal channel. The videos Antenna Man has done on ATSC 1.0 vs 3.0 is quite amazing in it's performance being superior.
@@marcusdamberger ATSC 3.0 is better because it uses COFDM modulation like DVB-T(2) instead of 8VSB which is used in ATSC 1.0 and 2.0. There was a lot of discussion about the modulation of ATSC from the beginning. But as you explained the choice they went with ATSC and its 8VSB modulation is likely due to manufactures already started production of ATSC receivers with 8VSB modulation. You usually cannot change baseline modulation properties after production with something like a firmware update. Also there is the market protection component. When your standards are fundamentally different like 8VSB is compared to COFDM you cannot easily convert one type of receiver to another. I don't like this way of doing business but it's something done already for a long time and a way to protect your revenue. It makes sure North American manufacturers have an advantage because the rest of the world hardly has an interest in ATSC compatible receivers. Of-course it prevents export benefits for the same reasons. In the end it usually causes more problems than it solves. Another reason is since ATSC uses 8VSB it might have better compatibility with existing analogue NTSC broadcasts. COFDM is (in)famous for it's large out-of-band emissions causing adjacent non-COFDM signals to be easily disturbed. It's also one of the reasons why 4G wasn't allowed to be used in 2G/3G bands because the 4G signal would interfere with the other 2. But improvements with sharper roll-off factors made it possible to lower interference to acceptable levels. Also most people use 4G anyway and most European providers at least phased out 2G or 3G completely and lowered spectrum of the other to a minimum. So in a market where analogue and digital had to coexist for a while 8VSB modulation probably wasn't such a bad decision. Europe just went blunt and basically forced broadcasters to switch from analogue to digital literally overnight. Most countries implemented switching per region but there wasn't any choice. For terrestrial broadcasting most of Europe switched from PAL to DVB-T between 2007-2012. Another mandatory switch happened the last 7 years from DVB-T to DVB-T2. Some countries hadn't even implemented DVB-T nationwide for 10 years! France switched in 2008 to DVB-T which was only completed around 2012. Then in 2015 they already switched to DVB-T2.
I live in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario on the border with Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Here, we are lucky to have access to American networks serving the Cadillac/Traverse City market, and while I can only pick up nine, that's massive compared to what Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario has. Before the digital changeover, we had five OTA networks here (a Global CIII repeater, CTV, CHCH, CBC, and TVO). The publically owned CBC and TVO shut down their analog transmitters in most markets so now they are cable/satellite exclusive here. Global and CHCH did install digital signals in the Soo, and I can watch CIII digitally here, but CHCH doesn't reach without an amplified or outdoor antenna in my location. Our CTV affiliate CHBX is still running on analog, I honestly don't know if Bell will replace it with a digital signal or not when the time finally comes
Im from Latvia and in apatment I live I picked up CATV leak with my Baofeng UV-5R on 477.740 and 517.760 mhz and I wonder can some TVs oick up CATV leak. I have big analog Samsung TV which have scan option, but whhen I was scaning it went from 477 to 478mhz and 517 to 518 mhz and was skiping specific frequencis 477.740 and 517.760 mhz
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I really wish they would've kept emergency stations and news stations available on Analog
yeah I've thought that also, maybe at least one flagship station per market area, and keep the analog on VHF 2 thru 6 (since that's nearly worthless for ATSC anyway) 😎👍
@@youdontknowme5969 but low vhf antennas are very expensive and big. I think they should move all dtv to uhf
@@youdontknowme5969 I agree 💯 percent! At the very least keep those channels around.
Surely we have the capability to do so, thus meaning if shit does hit the fan, there’s a fair chance the government would be forced to use such systems.
3 words : They want money
While NTSC had its faults, it was still supremely clever for the engineers to find a way to include the additional color signals while maintaining compatibility and without increasing bandwidth. Not to mention that this feat was accomplished with really primitive technology when the first nationwide color program was broadcast nearly 70 years ago.
Never twice the same colour, the British engineer said to me. Yes it was a good system. The truth is digital gets more channels out but the system sucks unless you are perfectly still and no ghosting.
@@markanderson350 Even if the viewer is sitting still, moving things like trees, the wind, reflected signals from vehicles, all wreck the digital signals where I am. My home is only a kilometer from the TV tower but there are tons of trees in the way. The digital signal is both strong AND trash all at the same time.
@@LatitudeSky I wondered about that. We can no longer see what is the problem on the screen. It's so annoying.
@@markanderson350 Yes, a lot of TV's don't include much info on the signal strength and quality. Have an older 32" Toshiba that actually tells you the RF channel as well as SNR and strength and peak RSL. It's a nice feature that I wish others would include. I'm pretty sure all the same silicon ATSC tuner chips have this information available, but none of the manufactures take advantage and just have a BAD/GOOD/BEST meter..
Engineers in the past had to be much more imaginative than nowadays. The navigation computer for the Apollo 11 Moon landing project had only 2k of RAM. When you watch "Apollo 13," keep that in mind. And if you have ever seen the guts of an old, pre-electronic automatic transmission, well, they're stunningly beautiful.
You hit the nail on the head as always, a weak analog signal can still be viewed and heard, even with levels of snow and audio distortion compared to a digital signal that breaks up and stutters, and then just drops out. Its just too bad we don't leave some RF space for just analog TV, and let it exist alongside Digital TV.
The interesting concept of "TV snow" will be forever lost to new generations :(
@@zachstudios567 there is the "snow" before HBO shows and I said, "There's a whole generation that will never know about snow on a TV".
its absolutely excellent for emergency use, everybody can receive them, better usability with bad snr, it honestly would be really smart to have space for maybe a few analog channels alongside digital.
Here in the UK we have no analog, I still have my analog black and white TV though
@@zachstudios567 Pssttt. Ever heard of SSTV? :)
The further north you travel in Canada, the more analog channels there are. Southern Ontario is mandated to be a digital market, while everywhere else further north are allowed to continue broadcasting on analog. For example, living in Timmins we have 2 analog channels, and 1 digital channel. It's fantastic to just be able to tune in to a static filled analog channel in town. Channel 3 and channel 11 are analog while 13.1 is digital.
Interesting! Do you know what the call letters of the channels are?
I wonder what its like for TV in Nunavat
The requirement is based on population. Also, all provincial capitals were required to switch to digital in 2011. Territorial capitals were also originally required to switch, but got exempted virtually at the last minute. The CBC also got to delay switching by a couple of years. Also, many vintage TV hobbyists have very low power analog stations running on their properties. You may pick them up while passing on the street. Our government didn't provide funding for free converters. So we had to buy our own, many with extra features, like PVRs, etc, not allowed on the state provided boxes in the USA. I remember in the late 1960s in Winnipeg using an attic mounted antenna to receive channel 12 from Pembina, ND, before getting cable.The station actually provided antennae to viewers who wanted them. That is no longer possible, as the digital signal is not usable north of Niverville. Even Winnipeg's CITY-TV (CMHI), channel 13.1 is almost impossible to get, as its transmitter is in Elie. It was fine in analog. If only that station was registered in Portage la Prairie, where its master control used to be back when it was Manitoba Television Network (MTN), it would still be allowed to transmit in analog.
@@AntennaMan I CONNECT MY NAVEL TO MY TV
Many years ago when I was a kid, I would be able to pick up channel 10 from London Ontario at night from stow Ohio, near Akron
The shutting down of those Canadian repeaters had a real, negative impact on the availability of TV content, especially to rural viewers. It also increased the need for a cable subscription for anyone looking for more than one or two channels.
We all know how ROBELLUS loves it the same way how their mobile phone plans are. More $$$ for their services!
those greedy bastards
The last one was the entire idea behind this move.
I think the best course of action is to transmit your own signals by taking digital tv, converting it into analog tv and transmitting it that way. I’m not sure about the legality of that though
BINGO!
All TV & RADIO will eventually become hidden behind paywalls of paid subscription services.
This has been the goal all along.
Tyler, the fact that you made this trip for this purpose makes you the coolest guy in the world!! I miss analog TV with all its interference and ghosting. And as a Canadian I want to say you are welcome here anytime!
agree wholeheartedly with your comment, Nathan.
He's documenting history like no one else is. Gotta respect that.
Eh, was a snowy picture any worse than big blocks (or worse, nothing at all)?
While you're right that a big problem with OTA television in Canada is the ownership of commercial stations, the CBC - our national broadcaster - set the precedent by shutting down 620 analogue repeaters in 2012, leaving only 27 digital transmitters covering the biggest markets. The idea of a "national" broadcaster that's publicly funded but doesn't bother to cover the vast majority of the country continues to be absurd to me.
I was always under the impression that a big reason for the extensive OTA in the US was down to far more protective local carriage laws for cable and satellite. I can’t recall all the details, but I seem to recall the jist of it being that the OTA signal must be “available” in a specific area in order for it to be allowed to be carried on cable and satellite. In Canada, there is no such requirement. Hell, the basic satellite channel packages include the local channels for most of the markets in Canada.
Satellites packages in Canada include most all local network stations because there is enough spectrum for them. And media companies consolidating stations helped that
Yeah, why would you make everyone outside of those areas pay for your network? That doesn't sound fair.
@@Satoshi9801 They’re part of the basic package on satellite only. No one is forced to pay extra…they’re just included by default.
I recall looking at DirecTV packages back in the early 2000s, and reading something about how it was against FCC regulations to give access to one markets local channels if one resides in a different market. Something about protecting the marketing rights of the local stations. Contrast to Canada where every markets locals were included in the basic package, to the point it was touted as a feature due to being able to time shift.
@@DB-bw5fz OK, but doesn't one have to pay money to get satellite service, whereas anyone with a TV and antenna can get OTA for free? I don't suppose Canada's satellite providers just give away dishes and basic service to your average Joe in say, Dryden?
Thanks for coming up to Canada Tyler had a great conversation with you was glad to have you over to visit. I'm glad that you came to Canada in the first place you visited was the Breakwater Pier
I absolutely love the signal hunting, especially when it's rare things like analogue TV signals. Just fantastic!
I know what you mean. Pulling in a far-off analog station like a scientist getting a signal from a world beyond our solar system. "This is WEYI 25 TV Saginaw/Bay City." Holy smokes, how far away is that???
Love how Tyler and Robbie Strike had an “argument” on what to talk about. It was pretty funny. Love the humor.
Tyler's such a hot-head!!!!
Humour. Canadian spelling. :-)
I heard Robbie hit Tyler over the head with a fold up lawnchair
Duck season! Wabbit season!
Tyler: "So, we're going to talk about antennas." Robbie: "Right on, yeah!" (Oh, wait, I have a line, don't I? What was it again? Oh, right...) "No, I want to talk about satellites!"
In my travels the last year or so , I found analog signals in SW FL. Four different ones were visible. And they had short range as well, only a few miles.
Where? I wouldn't mind being able to see if i could find them!
I didn't realize how important signal strength was until I tried getting in digital stations. I then was able to use that knowledge to get analog stations in better.
Many who lived in rural areas put in satellite dishes when they became available because cable wasn't an option.
The new ATSC 3.0 tuner along with improved internet technology being rolled out will remedy this situation in remote areas. Unfortunately it's not happening fast enough and could've easily been in place half a decade or more ago.
As a Canadian who was reliant upon Canadian cable TV, one of my biggest peeves was simultaneous substitution. That's when when if a Canadian TV station was broadcasting the same US program as a US station at the same time, the cable company would override the US station feed with the Canadian station with all of their Canadian commercials. So you have the same Canadian station feed on 2 or more channels. The Canadian stations do own the rights to broadcast these shows in Canada, and the cable companies still do it. I think it's much better now, but back in the 70s and 80s my local cable anyway was lousy at it. First off, many times the US show on the Canadian channel was of a lower video and/or audio quality, looked like a copy of a copy. And the Canadian version would have about two minutes of an hour program omitted to make room for more Canadian ads. And so many, many many times they would just forget(!!!) to switch off the Canadian feed when the show was over. You'd miss the next program on the US channel because the same Canadian channel would be on it. Often I'd just go to bed and the cable still hadn't switched the Canadian feed off when they should have hours earlier. The only way around this was... you guessed it.. an antenna!
My parents are deceased; (I live in NY) - but that was MY biggest peeve when I visited them in Ontario (back when). The substitution rules were so annoying. And yes, it was always known that Canadian channels had MORE ads in a given hour, than the US nets. Now however, the amount of ads allowed is double in the US... so that aspect of it might've changed.
I'm also old enough to remember back in the 70's...Canadian stations used to air their US shows several days BEFORE they aired in the US! Or it was sometimes on the same day, but maybe an hour sooner. Cable was new in Canada, so there were no subbing laws yet. It was probably in the 80's-90's when the Canadian nets started mimicking air-times with the US nets --- when those awful sim-sub rules went into effect. I believe satellite carriers in Canada are required to do the same thing.
@@Lightsngear For a while back in the day we had both Candian cable and an outdoor antenna. When the cable would do the simultaneous substitution thing, I would always make sure to watch the American shows on the antenna to watch the actual American channels (from Detroit in my case.) The quality was always much better.
Money. It costs less to use the Canadian feed.
@@tpl608 oh?? And of course they also want their ads to have the biggest audience possible. I get it.
@@Lightsngear bigger audience would be with analog
Interesting video. In the late 1980's, I use to go near cell towers with my Watchman TV. Then, I use to tune to the upper UHF band and listen to other peoples' cell
phone conversations. This was when cellphones were all analog and not encrypted. Today, you would probably hear the encrypted, digital signals resulting from people's cell phone conversations.
There's a RUclips video of someone doing the same thing with a home set. That must've been so much fun! I'm bummed that I was born to late to experience this. Then again, I might not have been a successful RUclips if I didn't grow up in the amazing tech era.
@@AntennaMan What was more interesting, during the early 1980's, is that when cable TV first came out everyone was splitting it and pirating it like crazy. For a while it was legal to do so until the laws caught up. In spite of the laws catching up, once the signal entered into a private residence, the resident(s) were allowed to do whatever they wanted with the signal. This ment if a scrambled signal entered a private resident's property, you could legally unscramble it, watch it, and not have to pay anything. I don't know what the laws are now a days, but, those were some good times because for a while, you could legally get a lot of cable channels, not pay anything for them, and there was nothing the cable companies could do about it. To combat all of the piracy, later on, the cable companies placed signal filters (traps), at the poles, so the signal would not even reach a non-subscriber's property. When you subscribed, a technician would come out and remove the filter and vs. vs.
In the 1970s we could use our walkie talkies to listen in to "party line" phone calls by touching the extended walkie talkie antenna to the support guide wire of the neighborhood telephone poles. We played "spy" this way. Best summer activity only to be replaced by getting an Atari with a free Space Invaders cartridge with purchase. Good times.
@@PhoneSpecificationsUSA I knew someone who would climb up the pole near his house and remove the filters
@@michaelneufeld1334 Oh man, an atari!
Thanks Tyler for another great video. Really enjoyed watching you look at the Canadian TV market especially as it still has analogue TV. Sadly I'm too young to truly remember the days when analogue ruled the airwaves. Your videos have been a great insite into this forgotten part of TV broadcasting.
It would great if you could do a video looking at other countries and ther TV markets. I'm from the UK and most people still get the most popular channels from OTA broadcasts despite the rise of cable and satellite. I think you would find it really interesting to compare the US and UK on this front. I know its a much further distance then US to Canada maybe you could find a local expert to interview on the topic.
Thanks again for the video.
Thanks for showing us that NTSC analog TV is still out there.
I do miss analog TV DXing that I started in
1960 when I started high school and along
with AM, FM, and Shortwave, then going on
to Amateur Radio in 1962.
I used to take B&W Polaroid photos off the
TV screen and with a letter send then to the
distant TV stations, up to about 1000 or more miles away.
A fellow ham who is in the broadcasting
field for many years, stated that NTSC TV
had a robust signal
I haven't had much success with receiving
distant HDTV signals.
Not many people have.
It's probably harder now to do any ATSC TV DXing now because all the signals that were spread out from 2-69 have now all been consolidated to 2-36. So that puts a lot more channels closer together with fewer quiet channels nearby to try and tune on. Especially when that channel your trying to scan has half a dozen TV stations on it now all across the country and adding noise, and noise trashes any chance of getting digital.
@@marcusdamberger Thanks 😊 yes I agree.
what about am radio dxing?
Awesome video man, thanks for documenting this. I also appreciate the fact you drive a Sunfire. Those were great cars.
No problem! I remember you were into analog. Get yourself a passport and drive to Canada to check this out before it's gone!
Yeah I’m hoping to make it to Saulte Ste Marie MI this year to pick up CHBX from the Ontario side before it disappears.
Here in the EU the last countries to switch off their analog transmitters did so in 2013. Many countries actually switched standards the second time (from DVB-T to DVB-T2, and/or switching codecs). Switzerland actually decided to phase out terrestrial TV completely due to everybody watching cable or satellite. So it's kind of surreal, seeing those noisy analog pictures still going in one of the richest and most developed places in the world.
Analog cable is still a thing in Europe, though - albeit only in a limited capacity. Some providers put analog versions of just a handful of the most basic free-to-air channels into their cables. Some no longer do so.
Had to buy new STB’s !
In Russia analog tv shutdown in 2019
In northern Italy many people spent money to install an antenna pointed to Switzerland to watch swiss TV, a small percent because of the superior professionalism of swiss TV compared to italian TV but mostly for sport events that in Italy were available only on pay TV. Terrestrial switch off was a sad day for many italians. Bonus fact: cable TV was never a thing in Italy outside of very small and short lived "experiments"
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Turkey, Eastern Ukraine and Russia still transmit on Analogue Television
The Netherlands and Belgium will likely shut down over-the-air digital tv before 2030. Market share has dropped to about 1%
It's amazing how far the analog signal gets. Here in Brazil, the analog signal was a mixture of the M video system with PAL color coding, the best of both worlds, the 60Hz of the American system with the perfect colors of the European system. Unfortunately it has already been deactivated. The current system is a Brazilian variation of the Japanese ISDB-T (SBTD-T) standard. This standard uses COFDM multiplexing with QAM-64 modulation on the 12 main segments and QAM-16 on the 13th segment. Even this robust coding scheme doesn't come close to the range and reliability of the old analog system. I remember the advertisements saying that digital would go further.
Digital can go further (see my explanation at the beginning of this video). The problem is broadcasters want a high efficiency which means they need to use higher order modulations in order to cram more bandwidth into the same 6 MHz. It's called spectral efficiency and it's mentioned in bits/Hz. The more bits, the higher your signal to noise ratio has to be in order to properly receive a signal. In other words you need a stronger signal in comparison. Also many digital transmitters, at least here in Europe, have less power compared to the old analogue systems. So more spectral efficiency and less power means a horrible reception.
In the military they use signals with a very low spectral efficiency and a very high error correction rate in war zones just to make the signal very resilient to interference (f.e. jamming) in an attempt to make sure the signal is received on the other end. It's one of the reasons why they made GPS the way it is. And even these systems are not perfect. They also use directional antenna's to get as much signal as possible and cancel out as much interference from other directions.
QAM is a very prone to interference. There are basically 3 components in a wave you can use to transmit information. Frequency, Amplitude and Phase. QAM tries to be the best in all 3 making it very efficient but also very sensitive. This sensitivity could already be observed in NTSC where the color information was transmitted on a higher frequency in QAM inside the monochrome baseband signal without any error correction. This caused the (in)famous hue errors. This was corrected in PAL by applying a few analogue error corrections which basically is an automatic tint control making a tint knob on PAL systems unnecessary. Fundamentally PAL is not that different from NTSC. It also uses QAM for color information.
Satellite signals were usually broadcast with only frequency components because the high frequencies made it prone to deep fading during weather changes. Most analogue satellites even used FM for video modulation while all other systems (terrestial, cable) used AM for video. FM video is horrible from a spectral efficiency perspective as where you only need 6-8 MHz for an AM video signal you need 20-30 MHz for an FM video signal with the same fidelity. But from a reliability perspective it was excellent.
Deep fading is really bad for amplitude modulated signals. That's why until recently only QPSK and 8PSK was used for satellite and other high performance systems. But there is a change to APSK modulation coming which is somewhat similar to QAM but the difference is the amplitude changes are more in line with the phase of the signal making it less prone to certain types of interference.
But in the end, nothing beats a good properly directed and aligned antenna. It doesn't matter what kind of signal you're trying to receive. It's worth nothing if you have a $10,000 receiver if you have a $5 antenna that's not even installed in the right direction. That's why Tyler's business is so successful. There is no magic indoor antenna that gives excellent reception under any circumstance. The magic is putting the right antenna in the right direction at the right place. If you apply this magic you will have decent error free reception 99% of of the time.
@@robinheijblom2929 Your comment is a real enlightening lesson. You brought several aspects that I already knew but with a perspective where everything fits together. Thanks.
ola, eu sou no brasil, eu quero ir pro eua
@@arthurgamerpro6585 ok e por que você está fazendo essa pergunta em um canal do youtube sobre TV sobre antena?
Você deve entrar em contato com a embaixada dos EUA. Eles podem te contar tudo sobre o que você precisa como cidadão brasileiro para entrar nos EUA
Eu realmente não falo português, mas eu tenho o google tradutor 😁
@@robinheijblom2929 é pq eu acho bem interesante falar sobre a tv dos eua, alem disso eu prefiro a tv a cabo
I wish I had OTA in my area. One of my fondest memories as a kid was being able to watch TV with an antenna. Because we were dirt poor, we couldn't afford cable most of the time. My stepdad brought home an amplified Gemini set top antenna one day and it was awesome!
Well, we were poor too, but the biggest reason that we didn't have cable was that it wasn't available in our area at the time. It was a big boon to the local video-rental place that every weekend, we'd rent movies, as there was basically nothing to watch on ABC, CBS, NBC, or PBS (the only channels we got). Though, we got cable when I was around 10 (I remember the cable company coming around to see if there were enough people interested to make it worth their while, and our neighbors getting it long before we did), and the video-rental place shortly went out of business. I've been meaning to go there to see what's up where that video-rental place used to be, but I haven't gotten around to it (there's probably nothing there, as pretty much everything closed down during the COVID-19 pandemic).
@@ghenulo Maybe you could find something on Google Maps?
In Canada we called those free stations “farmer vision”. It was 2 or 3 channels you could pick up and that was it. I grew up through the late 70’s and all of the 80’s watching that. Or C-Band satellite tv.
As a kid growing up in a valley in Western Mass, we had a 1000ft elevation mountain on each side of our town. I was surprised when I went down to the basement to see my dad working on a TV. He was only using a pair of rabbit ears and it was picking up Ch 6 great out of Schenectady, NY. not available via our roof top antenna at 40 ft. The strongest signals for VHF channels on the opposite side of the mountain, were generally obtained near the ground, vs. up in the air, unless you were on top of the mountain. Low VHF follows the contour of the earth rather well in hilly areas. If an FM or low band VHF antenna doesn't work well up in the air and you have hills, bring it down near the ground.
Also, VHF full power stations before digital ran 100k watts. When they converted to digital, for whatever reason, power was dramatically cut. VHF Hi band, generally ran 316k watts. Today with digital, they run VERY low power levels making rabbit ear reception worthless, whereas before they pickup the channels well.
Tyler, you generally trash VHF, but I suggest it's not VHF as much as it's the meager power levels being used with digital transmitters today. WVPI most likely operated analog previously with 100k, but today operate with 53k. Yet, the FCC shows they have the SAME VERY large contour.
The FCC shows the same contours for most stations that went from analog to digital, while ERP was dropped by more than 50%. Why??? Even our local ASTC 3.0 channels show the SAME contour footprint, with transmitter power cut dramatically.
This may not have been the choice by the station, but possibly a mandate by the FCC to reduce power levels, possibly to accomodate more low power stations. Either that, or the engineers who determine these power reductions and contour charts don't actually use an antenna to get reception!
The super low power limits definitely contribute to the VHF band being "trash." The FCC cut the power limits when they sold a chunk of TV spectrum to cell phone companies to prevent TV stations on the same RF channel in nearby markets from interfering with each other. If they hadn't sold so much spectrum there would be a lot more spacing between channels and thus higher power would be okay. I feel bad for stations on the VHF band. Their broadcast signals are starved of power needed to cover their market.
@WirelessNut It's fine for analog, trash for digital. It's not just the antennas either. Even with a correct VHF/UHF combo antenna, VHF channels are ALWAYS the ones that are problematic because of interference and noise. There's a reason why most countries no longer use VHF for TV broadcasting AND why TV stations on the VHF band are applying to move to the UHF band. The band is TRASH for DTV.
After 29 years as a Shaw/Rogers cable customer I cancelled my cable when Shaw switched off the old cable boxes in an attempt to force people into their internet/streaming tv packages. I switched to a home made OTA antenna and get all the local channels crystal clear and added in a few free streaming services like plex, tubi etc. Good bye cable company!
Perfect!
Never seen any of your videos before but delighted to take a chance on this from my recommended feed. What fun tracking down analogue TV broadcasts - long gone here in the UK but great fun to see it still hanging on out there!
As someone who is a strong enthusiast for retro technology (including analog TV), I am glad there is someone who appreciates analog TV as much as I do. Despite the fact that it's seen as obsolete, it still has its own hidden perks. For example, I find that analog TV's poor signal (fuzzy screen) is easier to follow along to than digital's poor signal (buffering, choppy picture, screen unable to load, no signal at all, etc). As a bonus, the static from analog TV's can be a good white noise machine. Nostalgia as well as historic preservation factors into the importance of analog TV as it was the first method TV was broadcast. It's great we have access to digital TV and steaming now, but I wish analog TV was preserved more and not lost to time. It would be nice if analog TV stations were still on the air at least for certain groups of people who might need or want it, such as people who live in remote areas who can't pick up digital signals or enthusiasts for analog technology like me. Also, if it wasn't for the existence of analog, we might not have digital, so I would like to see more respect for that piece of history.
I miss TV Signals that look like crap. I remember the days of rooftop antennas and getting several states away at night. That static is beautiful to see. I live in Michigan and remember getting Ohio, Indiana, and even Kentucky. It was amazing. Now you cannot even get the next market over. It's sad.
The FCC reduced the power limits of TV stations after the digital transition to keep the signals "within the market" and not spill into other markets.
@@AntennaMan I know, the best part about TV DXing gone! You can still DX HDTV but it's not as good and doesn't go as far.
Yup. That’s the idea. In market only.
Yes....when I was a teenager my dad and I constructed a stacked antenna setup on VHF and we could receive tv signals from long distances. With a rotator it was fun doing TV DX.
@@jeffreyd399 I miss the good ole sporadic e skip on the lower VHF band in the summer!
Nobody asked US American and Canadian watchers if we want to keep analog NTSC TV. We need it back if TV is going to reappear in taxis, backyard picnics, and kitchens. I never trashed any analog TV's and I only watch broadcast digital in lobbies.
ATSC3.0 will eventually allow portable devices to recieve tv broadcasts. resistant to motion and multipath interference.
@@900Yugo Why do we even have these systems? Europe has something else. Satellite has something else. NTSC encouraged distant viewing. Allows movement? That sounds like a board argument. Clueless.
@@stanleybest8833 Your right. It's just another attempt to shove more trash down our throat. All so you can get more HSN, QVC and Multi Level Marketing TV begging you to buy buy buy and buy. And when your done buying that junk, BUY MORE. Most of the added channels that are put out on digital OTA TV now are just trash channels anyhow. Most I know don't even watch regular TV anymore. It's all trash nowadays.
Ah Yes one of my Favorite videos from Antenna Man I want all the analog TV stations still broadcasting 2022S to be Alive they all need a Comebacks and FCC leave us alone and leave analog TV stations Alone let them Live
I'm all for digital (preferably ATSC 3.0) but it needs to exist alongside analog. I also wish HD radio would've been the new standard for radio worldwide thus continuing to get the analog channels along with digital sub channels.
@@bnstndrd every time they make a change, it has equaled a weaker signal, thats the history.
@@STONE69_ yep. Supposedly that's not the case for atsc 3.0. Hopefully I'm right about that.
Absolutely! At the very least channels 2-10.
I don't know why I'm so happy to see this, but I am. It's a marvel you can still experience this in its true form anywhere. I know I definitely have a slight rose-tinted memory of how clean and clear OTA was in the 90's, but more often than not we dealt with questionable signal quality. In particular, any of the channels in the Boston market by way of our third floor apartment in Pawtucket 45 miles away.
This is exactly why analog signals should NOT have been taken away. Most of America is rural area. I'd rather get a fuzzy picture than no picture
Brings back memories. If you had a kid with you, they could've gone outside to rotate the antenna for better reception. Memories...
When we had a rotor on the roof that failed, but really wanted to watch that weekend special on the channel out-of-market. So got up on the ladder with a wrench and rotated the big antenna mast by hand!
That's fantastic! Hate to hear it's going away. There's something to be said for analog TV (and radio) and their ability to transmit great distances in real time.
Here in Manila, Philippines, all TV stations are still in Analog TV until 2023.
All TV stations will be switch to Digital TV by 2023.
Are the stations simulcasting in both digital and analog, or are they strictly analog?
That's interesting. In Eastern Europe analog is dead for around 6-7 years. Was very surprised about Canada. Thanks you. That was interesting.
Thanks for another great video, and yes I would love to see more videos about Canadian TV stations, or even other states. Love your RUclips channel, I watch every new video that you post, and I've gone far back in your catalog as well. Have an awesome day
Love this channel, I'm into retro TVs (Mostly from the 30's-50's) and though I don't usually watch antenna I do when I'm using my retro tv (Like they did back in the day lmao), even if its not analog, it's still antenna.
Thanks!
I'm in Canada. Not too far from where you visited, closer to Toronto. You're reporting of our situation here is spot on. Where I live their are no analog channels available . In fact, i'm in a great reception area and can reliably receive 43 DTV stations, mostly American plus all the local Toronto and Hamilton are stations. Unfortunately its a sad fact that the cable companies were allowed to own most of these OTA stations rather than them being independantly owned and operated, which has all but destroyed OTA television in Canada. It wasn't always like this. This is the fault of the CRTC.
Hi Andrew, I fully agree with you. I remember when CKTM-TV Channel 13 came on the air reaching our farm, north or Trois-Rivieres in April, 1958, what an event! We were one of the first few farmers to have a television in our community but no reception. My grand-parents hosted a party at our farmhouse for the neighbors when CKTM-TV came on the air - for us kids, it was "magic"! CKTM-TV was an affiliate of the French network (Radio-Canada) of CBC but it also included a lot of local productions significant for the large rural communities of the part of Quebec. Sadly enough, by 2008 - this local transmitter (along with several radio stations) which had entertained and informed several generations in the past, was "dissolved" and integrated in the urban Montreal Radio-Canada station. Peace be with you, Ciao from Saint Maurice, L
hey you mentioned my city of watertown! Anyway what I miss most about analog tv is that the sound tends to still be good enough with a weak signal. digital tv just completely unwatchable when reception is poor, but with analog tv, the sound still keeps the show at least listenable.
I wish they did something with the digital signal design to prioritize redundant sound somehow so you could still at least listen even with spotty reception.
Yes! Please do a video about OTA TV in Canada. I would like to know more about my country’s broadcasting from a professional like Tyler.
I think it would be an interesting video. I could interview Robbie Strike again!
Tyler's Canadian (Analog) TV Tour is something I'd watch! Seriously though, keep up the good work. It's interesting.
My mother had this portable black and white TV with a radio. She got it in 1983. It didn’t worked now these days. I don’t know what happened to it. It was cool back in 1984 to watched TV in the back of the van when I was a teenager. Even my sister and I even asked our parents to put on a good radio station or play a cassette tape.
Its a decent picture and plus my low power UHF Transmitter setup has a decent picture
As long as we can make our own lower power setups Analog TV will still live on
Yes please! More on Canadian stations.
nah
CIII-TV-2 was shut down today. Glad you were able to experience it.
I live in Montreal 's southshore and with a small preamped yogi rca antenna I'm able to catch 33 channels. 10 canadians and 23 americans (mostly from burlington vt).
American channels have many subchannels that still broadcast in sd ! I was surprised to see that. We don 't have that here and it 's all boradcasted in hd or full hd (720 or 1080).
A video on canadian market would be great. Here in Québec we also have french tv channels!
I'm happy to be a cord cutter thanks for all the tips on your channel.
Does Quebec have French TV shows too?
@@900Yugo yes of course!
I did see your videos last year! Was happy to see this video today when looking for last year's videos!
Please! Yes to a deep dive for Over the Air in Canada. My wife is American and I'm always in awe of what my in-laws are able to get off air in the greater Cleveland area compared to 100km West of Toronto
I'm in the Cleveland area. Does Toronto have more or less channels over the air?
Great video. More about this topic, please!
Very interesting stuff. Whenever I go to Canada I'll make sure to try this, assuming that analog will still be a thing in Canada.
I've just checked on the sdr sharp airspy server and I noticed around the Chile area of South America there are still at least 3 strong analogue channels there still broadcasting on Band I !
I may be biased, but I absolutely LOVE the idea of you doing a video on the state of television in the great white north! Sadly, Canada's followed the UK approach to broadcasting, in that nearly all network affiliates are owned-and-operated... not so much like the USA where you have O&O's and privately-owned affiliates... i'd be glad to answer any questions you have about how we do things up here...
Yes, but watch the market trend. Verizon and AT-T submitted bids for more than 80 billion of a chunk of our C-band as well as taking over most of our UHF band. The owners of the frequency spectrum are pushing out the independents, with FCC concurrence. We had 1 small independent that built a 2nd station recently. As soon as that second station came on the air, even without programming, they were immediately sold to one of the huge mega station corporations. If the FCC continues to allow the big corporations to buy out the independents, there will be a time when no more small independents exist. While it may not be govt. owned and controlled like Canada, it still means a huge control by these few major corporations, who must answer to our govt. We may be moving in your direction.
Thank you! I love analog tv! :-)
Tyler, thanks for traveling so far to Canada to capture the last analog TV channel and sharing your experience. Analog TV, due to it's greater range, was always of interest to us TV DX'ers who made it a hobby to scan the TV band for distant (DX) stations. When I lived in NE PA back in the '80's, stations from FL and as far away as IA would occasionally be picked up on an analog TV when band conditions were favorable. Digital signals have pretty much put an end to long distance TV DX but short haul DX is still possible. I have a related question for the group: does anyone know if TV stations occasionally turn on their analog xmitter for testing purposes? Reason I am asking is that a few years ago I was occasionally receiving analog TV from stations that had gone digital.
Growing up in Indiana we only had 3 main channels and an independent UHF channel. What I liked most about analog was all the extra channels you could pick up after it rained. We were getting channels from Kentucky and Ohio. I remember watching Emergency and the Wild Wild West when they weren't scheduled on any of my local channels. Even though it was just temporary it is one my favorite memories.
I didn't know that about the rain. I remember some channels would sometimes come in and sometimes not.
Yeah! I was fascinated by the (unknown to me) distant TV stations our antenna would catch when the atmosphere would change. It was only temporary, but it was kind of thrilling. Maybe now that I'm an adult it wouldn't excite me as much. Most things don't! 😣
6,8,13,and 4indie in Indy?
This is the first video I'm seeing of this channel and seeing/hearing that old static means so much to me. There's a big part of me that longs to go back to the way it used to be. That static has come a long way, from the beginning of the universe, to reach us. I love seeing it.
I have a completely different question, you mentioned TV Fool. Does anyone know what happened to the site owners? It hasn't been updated for years, and sometimes it's been off line for months at a time. If the old owners can't maintain it anymore, I wish they would at least pass it on to someone who can.
Yeah, this site was really useful for its signal prediction maps. The guy did a ton of work on having all those maps made, then like you said the sites been abandoned. Odd because it does have banner ads etc.
If you go to the area surrounding Toronto and go to Channel 6 using an antenna you can actually pickup radio broadcasts from Indie88
I put a VHF antenna on the peak of my house outside of Middletown NY before the digital transition and could receive NBC on channel 3 out of Philadelphia. Incredible distance.
Was that before late 1995? That year we and many other cities in the US had the 'big switch' where the networks changed channels in local markets. NBC is currently on 10 here and CBS is on 3. ABC & Fox remained on 6 and 29, respectively.
@@IvyANguyen That was like 2005 or 6 I did that.
2:16 this is why i love antenna man
Australia was originally due to shut down analogue TV by the end of 2008, but circumstances delayed that. Eventually it happened during 2012-13. Brisbane shut down analogue in 2013.
Love your passion for this stuff!
We need all these companies to reopening to get analog TV stations back i missed them So Much and even all of us we missed Them Too
They are gone, they use the bands for cell phone service.
This video is proof that the two can coexist.
Hey man thank you for this video I love antennas seeing what I can get and analog is so missed I grew up with it too! Keep on being awesome man!
Love the analog TV, do you? Sadly the US Government decided to give the spectrum to the big cell phone providers and remember the old excuse that the analog shut down was meant to improve the emergency communications after the September 11 attacks in 2001? Well, I don't see that excuse as valid, cause it was meant to benefit Verizon, TMobile and AT&T in the first place.... Did I mentioned crappy "Dish Boost Mobile" too? Go figure!
But asides that, loved the little argument about antennas and satellites with Robbie!
Call me old but I miss that snowy vintage look that brings back so many memories of growing up in the 80s.
Glad you understand.
I remember Analog TV can't support 16x9 picture as there in 4x3. I remember back in the days channel 2 & 5 always picked up RF interference from CB (11 Meters) +10 & 12 Meter Ham Radio operators.
my family's 1st TV was a 19" Zenith B&W and their were 6 channels in our town and all but 1 turned off at midnight . good to know that some didn't need that digital converter box .
Six over the air channels back in the day was a lot of channels.
I think NTSC should be kept alive as a budget option for those who have cheap TV's, since eBay is selling CRT TV's with built-in antennas significantly cheaper than a modern digital TV. I think it is incredibly stupid to kill off a reliable format entirely. I think there should be a digitally-composed signal that is compatible with classic analog TV, while still providing support for HD and UHD. Case in point: I used an all-digital antenna and put it into my digital converter RF out (the antenna is in a mixed concrete and wooden basement, so it isn't going anywhere other than where my Sony Watchman is) and was able to watch "Night Court" on my portable 1984 Sony Watchman. While the video was expectedly snowy, it was presentable and the audio was crystal clear.
Remember when VHF-low used to be the most desirable channels? WCBS-2 & WNBC-4 & WNEW-5 from NYC and KYW-3 in Phila. VHF-high (WABC-7) was second most desirable and was also mostly assigned to the large metropolitan areas and UHF was for Scranton-Wilkes Barre, Harrisburg and Hartford type markets.
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This was very interesting. I have a saying “The newer is not always the better”.
Snowy pictures rule! Picking up an analog signal from 100 miles away, as long as they're marginally intelligible, is far more enjoyable to me than a crystal clear signal from 10 miles away
Hard to believe in 2022 there are still analog channels left on the air.
Knowing that the majority of people I know have cut cable and satellite (let alone analog TV) and switched over to streaming services (Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Amazon Prime Video, etc), I am surprised as well.
Reminds me of when I was a kid in southern Connecticut, we could pick up WFSB 3 and WTNH 8 with rabbit ears. WTNH moved to VHF 10 after the digital transition and I still can’t reliably pick it up. But thanks to ATSC3.0 I pick up the UHF repeater out of Hartford.
Tyler, Canadian OTA TV video a great idea.
I'm SO glad there's still analog in places. People always forget that rural areas have serious trouble with digital signals.
Segments of Canada still use VHF, including channels 2 through 6. I learned that via northcoaster hobby -- not personal study. That may be why U.S. hasn't reallocated the frequency range to public safety broadcast etc. We can't make changes that will interfere just over the two borders.
The same reason why we cannot use LTE band 28. Because public safety is using band 14.
Here's an idea for those that just don't want to bother with outdoor antennas, buy a Rotating indoor/outdoor antenna and install it on something High, one of my older
Brothers did this and he picked up 16 channels or so and a bonus of 2 hard to find 5v channels CW Network and ION network 😊😊👍👍👍👍👍 antenna man good to see you having aome fun with Robbie😊😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I do miss the charm of analog "sporadic e" skip on the lower VHF channels in the summer. As a kid, I was always amazed how I could pick up a station in Louisiana from here in upstate NY. 'Probably the spark that got me into 6 meter ham radio later on.
I did the same from upstate NY. Channel 2 in Miami would override the NYC station. Those were the days.
Analog is better in the way that instead of just cutting out completely with slight signal loss, you could still get a picture, though static filled. In my opinion that makes it better in bad weather situations when people might really need at least decent reception to keep up with weather news.
Analog TV was at least more reliable than digital TV, because I was able to at least watch a channel without freezing picture, too bad we don’t have it anymore thanks to the FCC!
VHF needs to be brought back!
@@amcjavlin7986 I used to watch a lot of channels on VHF 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,11!
I grew up in Watertown, and I can't ever remember getting CII-TV over the air. We would get CKWS, the local Kingston channel, but that was it. 1:52 is that the TI Bridge I see? The Wellesley Island border crossing is one I would take all the time crossing into Canada.
Thank you for this. I was a TV enthusiast in my 20s. I put up antennas to receive TV signals from outside my market. I could get one signal on Ch 8 over 70 miles away. When I went to my grandmother's house, she only could receive 3 channels as she lived in the country. All of them had snowy pictures. Then later after college I lived in a place with cable but they didn't carry the Fox affiliate I liked so up another antenna went. (It was between two markets).
Anyway all the TV "DX"ing seems to be a thing of the past. Digital signals from 30 miles away from me are unreceivable. I have a modest antique "Color" Radio Shack suburban antenna in my attic on a rotor. I get my local channels and that's it. It's the same antenna I used to use for my DXing, so it's not exactly poor.
Is it feasible to move the antenna outside?
@@brucelipsitz7545 No. HOA rules against anything on the roof. :(. Things are changing as I'm moving early next year. Hunting for a new house in a different state. No HOA is on my list.
Here in the Great Lakes, tropospheric propagation is common when a high pressure weather system is in the region. Do a rescan and you'll be surprised to see stations 90 miles away with just an attic antenna.
@ Cohort: If you are in US, I thought HOAs were precluded from imposing antenna prohibitions under OTARD rule of federal Telecommunucations Act of 1996. I had served on a HOA board with a request for a smaller satellite TV dish. Fed law prevails, our similar prohibition was unenforceable, we had to allow it. I believe same applies for OTA TV antennas. Might be worthwhile researching it, as many HOAs not aware of this.
@@garyburns4814 I never pursued having an outdoor aerial. I did have a 90cm Toroidal dish and a 70cm stearable dish back in the day. I did notify them when I put them in and cited the US law. They didn't mind mainly because they weren't visible from the street. In any event, I have a steeply pitched roof that is very high. The attic mount was much easier for a man my age. I don't need to fall anyway.
Anyway, I'm a short timer in this house. My focus is going to be on removing my antennas so I can take them with me.
Great questions. I've loved radio and TV since I was a teen and hope my next home will be the one where I can fulfill my dream of having an antenna farm.
This is exactly what watching antenna tv was like. I came here because even nowadays you can digitally remaster all old videos so even when they show old clips, it's still crystal clear and not how I remember it. This is what it was like
Do a video on Ch 1?
I will in the future!
@@AntennaMan I'm going to college soon.
So I seen some of your old videos about maybe getting a antenna for my dorm.
And they've been really useful so far I can't get one channel on it. And when I do get any channels they're out of state.
ruclips.net/channel/UCCKtJ3mIdF_tpWhukGWKG-w
@@AntennaMan ok
I once saw an old FM radio with lower numbers on it.
Lol 4:15 I was about to ask what kinda antenna you used but now I can see what kind cause you used the box to prop up the antenna. NICE!! Thanks brother for all your hard work
It was the antenna below: amzn.to/3Rb5lCP
@@AntennaMan thanks tyler
Tyler, I was expecting you to say, "Why can some analog TV be picked up in some parts of the US? Is it because Aliens are rebroadcasting old intercepted signals like Jodie Foster discovered in the movie "Contact"? 😄 Another informative video, thanks! AB
😒📺👽
I'll pay someone for cable tv reception
@@ronald1111 Okay? Then what are you doing here? 😄It's like going to a bike shop and tell everyone you just have car! 🤣
Cars have a lot of advantages over bikes but they're also more expensive in everything. The same can be said about cable versus antenna.
I still got gram's 1974 XL 100 here. People told me to throw it out years ago. Now I can watch crummy converter letter box frame or watch stuff on a VCR for cheap to free as everyone wants rid of their VHS tapes for next to nothing. Relive the glory days of TV.
It would actually be possible to broadcast digital signals with the same or even better resistance to interference and fading as analogue. It all has to do with the Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). Whenever someone tries to cram more information into a signal it needs to be stronger in comparison. Some signals deliberately go in the opposite direction by spreading a low amount of information over a large bandwidth.
GPS is one of these signals because it needs to be received with a portable antenna yet it's a satellite so it's not anywhere near like your local TV/FM radio stations. Though GPS is not in geostationary orbit at 22,236 miles altitude, it still is approximately half of that at 12,552 miles.
There is only one problem. Spreading a small amount of information over a large bandwidth is very inefficient. You basically sacrifice a lot of bandwidth for extending some distance. In theory it would be possible to have an ATSC signal with only one TV station having even better performance compared to an analogue station. The international DVB-T and T2 standard allows for flexible allocation. DVB-T allows for 10-30 Mbps and DVB-T2 from 5-50 Mbps for 8 MHz. I'm not sure how much flexibility ATSC 1.0 has as the figure I keep finding is 19 Mbps for 6 MHz.
But most of the time providers choose to (ab)use this flexibility by going too far into the high bandwidths making good reception only possible in and around big cities. On the other hand the bad experiences are exaggerated as with a decent properly directed outdoor antenna reception is fine. Too many people just buy those glorified coat-hangers and expect exceptional results.
Some countries like Germany and France used to broadcast the PBS and Local channels at a lower more resilient bit-rate while the commercial and encrypted TV stations broadcast on a higher less resilient bit-rate and only in and around cities. In my opinion this would be a better way to go. Not sure if they still do.
Yeah, from the get go, DVB-T allowed you to adjust the bandwidth and error correction. I think this was to allow for the varied terrain conditions and what the TV station might have expected the viewer to have in terms of reception ability; roof or attic antenna, or simple indoor antenna with an urban viewer etc. However, ATSC didn't allow for adjustment of the bandwidth or the amount of error correction. 19.39Mbps is the allocated bandwidth, whatever you want to do with that is up to the station. The difference between a HD or SD subchannel in terms of redundancy and robustness is hardly negligible. A SD subchannel seems to have a little bit more robustness, but I think that's more to do with the amount of bits allocated to that subchannel and fewer chances of the signals interference hitting those fewer bits in the stream getting trashed. So it tends to hold a picture a little bit more vs a HD feed that is starting to break up. But once you start to see breakup, pretty much any of the program streams on that channel are going to get hit.
I think part of the reason why ATSC didn't have these options is because work on it started earlier than DVB, and by the time DVB came along and was looking at bandwidth allocation and signal redundancy, ATSC was too far along in the standardization process. Near the debut of ATSC 1.0 Sinclair Broadcast Group became quite vocal that ATSC wasn't' living up to what they thought it should do, and DVB was showing superior performance. They wanted to petition the FCC to allow stations to choose either ATSC or DVB to broadcast. But the FCC didn't make rules to allow that option. Others were saying it was too late add another standard, when Set top Boxes and TV's were starting to be made with ATSC tuners by the major manufactures. Never mind it was only the very high end TV's and a few models of Set Top Box that had HD component outs; not the later cheap digital transition tuners, and all were 1st gen tuners with 2nd gen tuners right around the corner that promised much better reception. ATSC 3.0 however has lot's of options on robustness of each of the streams on a signal channel. The videos Antenna Man has done on ATSC 1.0 vs 3.0 is quite amazing in it's performance being superior.
@@marcusdamberger ATSC 3.0 is better because it uses COFDM modulation like DVB-T(2) instead of 8VSB which is used in ATSC 1.0 and 2.0. There was a lot of discussion about the modulation of ATSC from the beginning. But as you explained the choice they went with ATSC and its 8VSB modulation is likely due to manufactures already started production of ATSC receivers with 8VSB modulation. You usually cannot change baseline modulation properties after production with something like a firmware update.
Also there is the market protection component. When your standards are fundamentally different like 8VSB is compared to COFDM you cannot easily convert one type of receiver to another. I don't like this way of doing business but it's something done already for a long time and a way to protect your revenue. It makes sure North American manufacturers have an advantage because the rest of the world hardly has an interest in ATSC compatible receivers. Of-course it prevents export benefits for the same reasons. In the end it usually causes more problems than it solves.
Another reason is since ATSC uses 8VSB it might have better compatibility with existing analogue NTSC broadcasts. COFDM is (in)famous for it's large out-of-band emissions causing adjacent non-COFDM signals to be easily disturbed. It's also one of the reasons why 4G wasn't allowed to be used in 2G/3G bands because the 4G signal would interfere with the other 2. But improvements with sharper roll-off factors made it possible to lower interference to acceptable levels. Also most people use 4G anyway and most European providers at least phased out 2G or 3G completely and lowered spectrum of the other to a minimum.
So in a market where analogue and digital had to coexist for a while 8VSB modulation probably wasn't such a bad decision. Europe just went blunt and basically forced broadcasters to switch from analogue to digital literally overnight. Most countries implemented switching per region but there wasn't any choice. For terrestrial broadcasting most of Europe switched from PAL to DVB-T between 2007-2012. Another mandatory switch happened the last 7 years from DVB-T to DVB-T2. Some countries hadn't even implemented DVB-T nationwide for 10 years! France switched in 2008 to DVB-T which was only completed around 2012. Then in 2015 they already switched to DVB-T2.
Hello I exist
I live in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario on the border with Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Here, we are lucky to have access to American networks serving the Cadillac/Traverse City market, and while I can only pick up nine, that's massive compared to what Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario has. Before the digital changeover, we had five OTA networks here (a Global CIII repeater, CTV, CHCH, CBC, and TVO). The publically owned CBC and TVO shut down their analog transmitters in most markets so now they are cable/satellite exclusive here. Global and CHCH did install digital signals in the Soo, and I can watch CIII digitally here, but CHCH doesn't reach without an amplified or outdoor antenna in my location. Our CTV affiliate CHBX is still running on analog, I honestly don't know if Bell will replace it with a digital signal or not when the time finally comes
The desire to pick up Canadian tv across the lake is what got me into this. I never have and probably can’t nowadays.
i love you for this... i too much prefered a little snow and static as apposed to total digital drop out
You should’ve gone all the way up to Bancroft. It’s not that much further than Kingston and it’s a completely gorgeous area!
I miss low VHF analog TV. I used to be able to pick up Danish television here in Sweden on CCIR channel 4 (62.25 MHz) almost 90miles away.
Im from Latvia and in apatment I live I picked up CATV leak with my Baofeng UV-5R on 477.740 and 517.760 mhz and I wonder can some TVs oick up CATV leak. I have big analog Samsung TV which have scan option, but whhen I was scaning it went from 477 to 478mhz and 517 to 518 mhz and was skiping specific frequencis 477.740 and 517.760 mhz
Adding mercury to an antenna will increase RF signals much better, I think there are still youtube videos on how to do it, but many were removed.
Such a nostalgia feeling hearing that old tv with the news i miss the early 2000
Love you guys man!