It will be a sad day when Jimmy Carter dies; a good Christian, a good Baptist, and a practitioner of loving neighbor. There is no other public Christian like him in the public view today.
I’m so glad Randal let us in on this talk. It was worth every minute of watching. I feel it’s worth considering what is meant by the word “saved” as used by Biblical writers. It seems common now to think of it as meaning that your wellbeing in life after physical death is secure. Interestingly the Israelites didn’t seem to concern themselves much with the afterlife. It’s strange how we’ve interpreted so much in relation to it. I really appreciate something Randal said near the end in response to one of the questions. “𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒎 𝒐𝒇 𝒐𝒏𝒆’𝒔 𝒍𝒊𝒇𝒆, 𝒉𝒐𝒘 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚’𝒗𝒆 𝒍𝒐𝒗𝒆𝒅 𝒏𝒆𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒊𝒔 𝒊𝒏𝒅𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒗𝒆 𝒐𝒇 𝑮𝒐𝒅’𝒔 𝒑𝒓𝒆𝒔𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒏 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 𝒍𝒊𝒇𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒅𝒆𝒈𝒓𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒐 𝒘𝒉𝒊𝒄𝒉 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚’𝒗𝒆 𝒃𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒊𝒏 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒎𝒊𝒕𝒚 𝒕𝒐 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒌𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒅𝒐𝒎 𝒐𝒇 𝑮𝒐𝒅. 𝑰𝒕’𝒔 𝒂𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑮𝒐𝒅’𝒔 𝒈𝒓𝒂𝒄𝒆 𝒂𝒍𝒍 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒐𝒖𝒈𝒉 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒐𝒖𝒈𝒉” To me, that’s what being saved is - this process.
Well met. Just some more history regarding practice. The good history of Christianity in this country focused on helping neighbors and practice for many reasons. One, there was no church of any significant support in the beginning. Practice distinguished Protestant from Catholic where saying two "Hail Mary"s and you were good to go. Reading history of this country in the 18th century the reason the founders believed religion was required was because of the practice of community and neighborly support, not because of "right belief". Franklin pointed this out in his autobiography when he donated to Christian orphanages. However, right belief has always been a strong current and the Puritans kinda started this "Hail Mary" type of Christian identity by insisting on attendance of Sunday sermon and having Sunday school to learn right beliefs. Everything else was secondary. But they were in competition eventually with the Quakers and the Methodists where who were far more practitioners. Today I think the populist definition has come full circle and reflects the Puritans: are you attending Sunday Church and Sunday school. Evangelicals are the new Puritanical current in America: right belief by Sunday Service and Schooling defines what it means to be a Christian. All the wedge issues are Puritanical. Sadly, I don't see the works tradition in this country. I mean right wing media just blathers on about how much they give to charity. That's it. Not what the do to help their neighbors from day-to-day. Christianity in the public square is Puritanical adherence to objective morality and practice be damned.
"Practice shapes belief" is true, but the full story is that it's the beliefs you are taught and practice as a child that are by far the most important factor in determining the type of Christian you are. In terms of which religion you practice (Christian, Islam, Hinduism, etc), it's somewhere close to 99% determinative -- very few adults over 25 convert from one religion to another -- but there is probably a somewhat greater fluidity between different Christian traditions and practices. I won't pretend to know what the percentage is for such fluidity, but it's got to be somewhere north of 75%, and likely even 85%. Of course, this all has huge ramifications related to issues of free will and salvation, but that's another subject entirely.
I just want to recommend to the person claiming American History doesn't saying anything good about Christian history that this person is woefully uneducated. You have the Abolitionist movement, the Women's Sufferage movement, the temperance movement. These were not first about politics, but about loving your neighbor. Alcohol has long been a pox on human society; creating untold suffering; ruining families; and who else but the Temperance movement has ever mad a stand? Anyone who claims history doesn't not reflect good things done by Christians is uneducated.
Abolition pitted Christian against Christian, and eventually righted the evils created and sustained by Christians for centuries. Women's Suffrage? The same. The Catholic Church and SBC strongly opposed giving women the vote, the SBC even banning women from voting in their own church matters during the Suffrage Movement's campaign. Evangelicals were pretty much evenly divided on the issue. As for temperance, well, Jesus and his disciples routinely drank wine, and almost no churches have campaigned against it since, so the legal banning of alcohol is not a Christian position, and has never been widely held. In any case, Prohibition was a complete disaster. It is true that some denominations to a strong position against alcohol -- when I was a kid, Methodist ministers (in the UK at least) were not allowed to have alcohol in their home, and they still use non-alcoholic wine in communion services, and other denominations too, but not the Catholics, and that's about it. Conservative evangelicals were extremely outspoken against the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s, refusing to afford even the slightest amount of human dignity to African Americans simply because of the color of their skin. Jerry Falwell even founded his own whites-only high school in reaction to the movement. Some Christian organizations still banned miscegenation as recently as the turn of this century. Similar stories for Equal Rights (complementarianism is still a implicit rejection of equal rights for women, and many would apply it to secular institutions if they could) and Gay Rights. As you can see, there's a pattern. Every step of the way, a very significant number, if not a majority, of American Christians and Christian organizations have been a day late and a dollar short in support of positions that should be a slam dunk for any Christian who heeds the words of Jesus. It's not that many Christians haven't fought long and hard and bravely in these battles for equality and freedom -- they have, and they should be celebrated -- it's that so many Christians stood in their way, and stood on the Bible to justify their blocking the way. Do you want Christians to be held to a higher standard? I should have thought the answer was yes, but perhaps I am mistaken.
I’d call a “mere Christian” a victim of emotional abuse. I’ve never met a Christian who didn’t believe they were worthless without god and unable to handle life on their own, felt ashamed of their own desires, and felt deserving of punishment just for being who they are. And so many then call this abuse “love” and go on to treat other people and even their own children this way. It’s not love. I wish it would stop.
@@jemdillon3620 Interesting. Do you think sin or original sin exists? If so, does god punish sin? What happens to non-Christian’s after they die? How much credit do you give to god for your personal successes, and how much blame do you put on god for your personal failures?
@@weirdwilliam8500 I am Eastern Orthodox, we don't really believe in original sin in the way some protestants do. We think of original sin as a kind of sickness - we are all born into a world where sin is possible for us, and we suffer to the degree that we sin. God doesn't punish sin, he wants to help heal us, and heal the whole world. That's a very quick summary. Non-Christians, just like Christians, will ultimately be judged for what they did in life, and how they responded to the teachings of Christ, or to their inner conscience which we believe comes from the Holy Spirit. Some (Christians and non-Christians) who aren't willing to give up their sinful behavior will have to be purged of evil as if by fire. I believe that ultimately this process will heal everyone. You, me and everyone who has ever lived. That makes me a universalist, which is a minority opinion among Christians. To me it is obviously true. God is the perfect father of creation, nothing in this world will ever be abandoned in an eternal hell.
@@weirdwilliam8500 Nothing exists without God, so he gets "credit" for everything. I dont think of credit or blame, though. Everything exists for the purpose of reconciliation with God. I try to glorify God for all things - including my personal successes, and the failures and pain which test me and ultimately bring me closer to God.
@@weirdwilliam8500 I actually agree with you that much (or most) of modern Christianity constitutes a kind of child abuse. The awful idea of an eternal hell is very harmful to people, for instance.
Thank you for sharing this speech. It was really good.
Thanks for your talk. A lot to ponder.
It will be a sad day when Jimmy Carter dies; a good Christian, a good Baptist, and a practitioner of loving neighbor. There is no other public Christian like him in the public view today.
I’m so glad Randal let us in on this talk. It was worth every minute of watching. I feel it’s worth considering what is meant by the word “saved” as used by Biblical writers. It seems common now to think of it as meaning that your wellbeing in life after physical death is secure. Interestingly the Israelites didn’t seem to concern themselves much with the afterlife. It’s strange how we’ve interpreted so much in relation to it.
I really appreciate something Randal said near the end in response to one of the questions. “𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒎 𝒐𝒇 𝒐𝒏𝒆’𝒔 𝒍𝒊𝒇𝒆, 𝒉𝒐𝒘 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚’𝒗𝒆 𝒍𝒐𝒗𝒆𝒅 𝒏𝒆𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒊𝒔 𝒊𝒏𝒅𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒗𝒆 𝒐𝒇 𝑮𝒐𝒅’𝒔 𝒑𝒓𝒆𝒔𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒏 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 𝒍𝒊𝒇𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒅𝒆𝒈𝒓𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒐 𝒘𝒉𝒊𝒄𝒉 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚’𝒗𝒆 𝒃𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒊𝒏 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒎𝒊𝒕𝒚 𝒕𝒐 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒌𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒅𝒐𝒎 𝒐𝒇 𝑮𝒐𝒅. 𝑰𝒕’𝒔 𝒂𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑮𝒐𝒅’𝒔 𝒈𝒓𝒂𝒄𝒆 𝒂𝒍𝒍 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒐𝒖𝒈𝒉 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒐𝒖𝒈𝒉” To me, that’s what being saved is - this process.
Loved the quote NOT being mean.cant remember it all.?So many Christians concerned with being right have ceased being nice
Well met. Just some more history regarding practice. The good history of Christianity in this country focused on helping neighbors and practice for many reasons. One, there was no church of any significant support in the beginning. Practice distinguished Protestant from Catholic where saying two "Hail Mary"s and you were good to go. Reading history of this country in the 18th century the reason the founders believed religion was required was because of the practice of community and neighborly support, not because of "right belief". Franklin pointed this out in his autobiography when he donated to Christian orphanages. However, right belief has always been a strong current and the Puritans kinda started this "Hail Mary" type of Christian identity by insisting on attendance of Sunday sermon and having Sunday school to learn right beliefs. Everything else was secondary. But they were in competition eventually with the Quakers and the Methodists where who were far more practitioners. Today I think the populist definition has come full circle and reflects the Puritans: are you attending Sunday Church and Sunday school. Evangelicals are the new Puritanical current in America: right belief by Sunday Service and Schooling defines what it means to be a Christian. All the wedge issues are Puritanical. Sadly, I don't see the works tradition in this country. I mean right wing media just blathers on about how much they give to charity. That's it. Not what the do to help their neighbors from day-to-day. Christianity in the public square is Puritanical adherence to objective morality and practice be damned.
I feel bad for that first questioner. Kinda shocking, but I am not surprised.
"Practice shapes belief" is true, but the full story is that it's the beliefs you are taught and practice as a child that are by far the most important factor in determining the type of Christian you are.
In terms of which religion you practice (Christian, Islam, Hinduism, etc), it's somewhere close to 99% determinative -- very few adults over 25 convert from one religion to another -- but there is probably a somewhat greater fluidity between different Christian traditions and practices.
I won't pretend to know what the percentage is for such fluidity, but it's got to be somewhere north of 75%, and likely even 85%.
Of course, this all has huge ramifications related to issues of free will and salvation, but that's another subject entirely.
I just want to recommend to the person claiming American History doesn't saying anything good about Christian history that this person is woefully uneducated. You have the Abolitionist movement, the Women's Sufferage movement, the temperance movement. These were not first about politics, but about loving your neighbor. Alcohol has long been a pox on human society; creating untold suffering; ruining families; and who else but the Temperance movement has ever mad a stand? Anyone who claims history doesn't not reflect good things done by Christians is uneducated.
And persons espousing what you are saying, only see one side of history. And pick and choose what loving your neighbor means.
Abolition pitted Christian against Christian, and eventually righted the evils created and sustained by Christians for centuries.
Women's Suffrage? The same. The Catholic Church and SBC strongly opposed giving women the vote, the SBC even banning women from voting in their own church matters during the Suffrage Movement's campaign. Evangelicals were pretty much evenly divided on the issue.
As for temperance, well, Jesus and his disciples routinely drank wine, and almost no churches have campaigned against it since, so the legal banning of alcohol is not a Christian position, and has never been widely held. In any case, Prohibition was a complete disaster. It is true that some denominations to a strong position against alcohol -- when I was a kid, Methodist ministers (in the UK at least) were not allowed to have alcohol in their home, and they still use non-alcoholic wine in communion services, and other denominations too, but not the Catholics, and that's about it.
Conservative evangelicals were extremely outspoken against the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s, refusing to afford even the slightest amount of human dignity to African Americans simply because of the color of their skin. Jerry Falwell even founded his own whites-only high school in reaction to the movement. Some Christian organizations still banned miscegenation as recently as the turn of this century.
Similar stories for Equal Rights (complementarianism is still a implicit rejection of equal rights for women, and many would apply it to secular institutions if they could) and Gay Rights.
As you can see, there's a pattern. Every step of the way, a very significant number, if not a majority, of American Christians and Christian organizations have been a day late and a dollar short in support of positions that should be a slam dunk for any Christian who heeds the words of Jesus.
It's not that many Christians haven't fought long and hard and bravely in these battles for equality and freedom -- they have, and they should be celebrated -- it's that so many Christians stood in their way, and stood on the Bible to justify their blocking the way.
Do you want Christians to be held to a higher standard? I should have thought the answer was yes, but perhaps I am mistaken.
I’d call a “mere Christian” a victim of emotional abuse. I’ve never met a Christian who didn’t believe they were worthless without god and unable to handle life on their own, felt ashamed of their own desires, and felt deserving of punishment just for being who they are. And so many then call this abuse “love” and go on to treat other people and even their own children this way. It’s not love. I wish it would stop.
Hi! I'm a Christian who doesn't suffer from any of those feelings you've described. So now you've met one!
@@jemdillon3620 Interesting. Do you think sin or original sin exists? If so, does god punish sin? What happens to non-Christian’s after they die?
How much credit do you give to god for your personal successes, and how much blame do you put on god for your personal failures?
@@weirdwilliam8500 I am Eastern Orthodox, we don't really believe in original sin in the way some protestants do. We think of original sin as a kind of sickness - we are all born into a world where sin is possible for us, and we suffer to the degree that we sin. God doesn't punish sin, he wants to help heal us, and heal the whole world. That's a very quick summary. Non-Christians, just like Christians, will ultimately be judged for what they did in life, and how they responded to the teachings of Christ, or to their inner conscience which we believe comes from the Holy Spirit. Some (Christians and non-Christians) who aren't willing to give up their sinful behavior will have to be purged of evil as if by fire. I believe that ultimately this process will heal everyone. You, me and everyone who has ever lived. That makes me a universalist, which is a minority opinion among Christians. To me it is obviously true. God is the perfect father of creation, nothing in this world will ever be abandoned in an eternal hell.
@@weirdwilliam8500 Nothing exists without God, so he gets "credit" for everything. I dont think of credit or blame, though. Everything exists for the purpose of reconciliation with God. I try to glorify God for all things - including my personal successes, and the failures and pain which test me and ultimately bring me closer to God.
@@weirdwilliam8500 I actually agree with you that much (or most) of modern Christianity constitutes a kind of child abuse. The awful idea of an eternal hell is very harmful to people, for instance.
Mere Christian, is not yet Christian.