The Reason STEFFI GRAF'S FOREHAND Would NEVER Work In Modern Tennis
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
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About Vincent: Vincent Simone is a professional tennis coach from Canada. He is the author of Tennis Doctor: Modern Tennis Step By Step and The Tennis Bible and has been a best-selling author on Amazon. He breaks down the complex movements in modern tennis into easy-to-understand, useable knowledge that can be applied at any level.
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Are you kidding me... I watched Graf's match against Serena Williams and Serena was troubled by Graf's forehand, despite Graf being near the end of her career. Graf's forehand was her strongest shot in her arsenal, and here you call it weak.
Steffi will still be able to compete in any era.
Vincent, I started out liking your content because they were instructive and to the point. However, recent videos seem more like clickbait, especially with titles such as “you will NEVER etc. if you don’t do this” or other extreme claims, like this one. It is tough being a content creator and online coach, but this is just my candid feedback that this recent style or type of content risks alienating your potential audience.
Modern players on Steffi Graf:
“Certainly, I knew how to clobber the ball and I was top 10 at that point, but I realized immediately that I was a so much worse tennis player than Steffi. … Steffi had shown me my limits in a devastating way and that was a good thing. I began to understand.“
(Andrea Petkovic, on her practice session with 41-year-old Steffi Graf in 2011 in Las Vegas, Tennismagazin, June 2019)
However Date-Krumm is convinced that if ‘Fraulein Forehand’ made a comeback today, she would still be world number one. “Yes I think so,” she says. “And why ? Well because tennis is not only power and not only age.“
(Kimiko Date, Tennis World Magazine Exclusive, October 18, 2011)
“If she were healthy, she could play on the tour without any problems. She is so fast. Her forehand is amazing, the slice barely bounces. It's hard to play against her. I'm in the top 30 and not bad at all, but when I play against her I don't feel so good about my ranking," Cirstea said of the 44-year-old Graf.
(Sorana Cirstea, tennisnet.com, July 25, 2013)
“How do you think you would go against her?
I think even now she would give most of us a run for our money. All the people who I know have played and practised with her just say she was one of a kind.“
(Samantha Stosur, on Steffi Graf, 2011)
Too much teaching is about skills and not athleticism. Graf would’ve run circles around all of them. Her footwork was so light. Her heels hardly ever touched the ground.
Bad coaches like this must sell the sizzle and that’s the promise of great skills that only they can impart. What tennis parents don’t realize is that as they grow up and cream rises to the top, only the best athletes succeed. Coco Gauf may not have the best strokes, but her athleticism will always make her a contender. If Venus Williams had a simple forehand like Graf instead of that error prone spaghetti forehand, she worse won even more grandslams
Self proclaimed tennis doctor criticizing a 22-time Grand Slam winner when he himself is 0-2 in his local rec league (TORONTO WINTER TENNIS League). Feel free to google it yourself. 😂😂 90% of his videos are of him coaching kids under 10.
LOL
Yes the claim seems strange. Also it is just ONE single stroke of the tens of thousands she made in her life.
You don't have to be an elephant to be an elephant expert (No specific name for zoologists specialized on elephants), so Vincent's level of play is irrelevant to analyze what he observes. Otherwise those who were allowed to analyze Roger's game would be only Rafa and Novak. Having said that, I disagree with Vincent. Easy way to check it is to look Steffi's rivalries, with positive ones (Got to accept that with younger players the numbers of matches played are pretty low): Positive balances: Clijsters (1-0), Mauresmo (1-0), Hingis (7-2), Venus W. (3-2), Davenport (8-6) Neutral Balances: Serena W. (1-1) Once again, numbers are low but obviously Steffi could compete with "modern" players. Would she still win 22 Slams in "modern tennis" age"? There is no way to guess it. In tennis, if it is not played you cannot assume it. Would Roger win more GS titles had he moved to a bigger headsize in 2010? Well, he didn't change his racquet till 2014: end of story..
Wow… what a bully comment. Are you saying you can beat Vincent so you can post this comment? Why not show everyone your match ?
Personally I think teaching kids age under 10 is more challenging than play tour…..
Winning a match is not just a forhand strike. Williams are using same school of forhand as well. On this particular shot does reveal timing issue and how slow 90s balls were.
Don’t del Potro uses similar big swing?
Is he screw or sthing? Her power comes from strong hands, not long drive! She had it, ans the slice that would may get yelling not fitter girls to deal with. Add serve, soul and grace , an u almost had it🙏
Can't agree with that, Steffi would toy with most of the female players now, she beat a young Venus Williams when she coming to the end of her career. Her forehand was one of her biggest weapons! , and she used to throw her legs and weight into the stroke.....not just arm. Then you have her slice backhand , which was another weapon, no other female has had a better one since, not even Barty....that's before you even start on her athleticism and mental game.... probably her biggest weapons.....
Never talk about the greats.... Give them their due respect. They have earned it.
Sorry you’re talking absolute nonsense 😂 you don’t have a clue
I was looking for this comment.
You can't criticize a stroke you don't produce yourself. I've tried to emulate her forehand for over 20 years and just the past few years I feel I understand it. You can't apply normal biomechanics to her forehand. It is fundamentally produced differently. Her forehand is an uppercut, which means two things, she has the most power when the ball is hit close to her body, and also her body rotation is abbreviated because most of the power in the stroke comes from upward leg drive. Just like an uppercut. But that's not ALL!!! where she hits the ball and the grip she has to use to do so is also unorthodox, is too difficult to explain without pictures. But when you hit her forehand if feels as if you threw the whole racquet at the ball with your legs...
what really made Steffi great was her amazing footwork. To state that her forehand cannot compete today's WTA in completely ludicrous.
I generally like your content, but please stop calling your viewers 'patients'. It sounds arrogant and disrespectful.
Obviously, Steffi Graf has a WTA style forehand and obviously you don't like this forehand technique and think that it's inferior to ATP style forehands. What you fail to understand is that most women have a different physique than men, therefore they tend to employ different stroke mechanics. In addition to that, Graf used an eastern FH grip. This together with the WTA swing path results in a contact point that is much further behind and in a much flatter shot. Nevertheless, Graf managed to achieve extremely high consistency and precision without having the benefit of bigger margins that heavier topspin provides. Serena Williams also had a WTA forehand, although with a SW FH grip, just as most other WTA players.
I'm pretty sure, Steffi Graf's forehand would work just fine in today's tennis.
You're saying she didn't hit like players now do but her style was atypical even then
After seeing this video and reading some comments about Steffi Graf’s forehand, I would like to share my thoughts and insights.
To the average eye, her forehand may look different or late but her technique is world class! Her racquet starting position starts somewhat high like Juan Martin Del Potro. Her swing, though it starts a bit late, is so fast that her point of contact is exquisite with the ball right in the center of the racquet. Her follow through is lightning quick and typically winds up over her shoulder but varies depending on the shot she wants to execute. Her forehand flow is so synchronized with her athleticism that it’s amazing to witness.
There are those who believe that if you hit the ball hard and fast enough, you will expose Steffi’s forehand but that is every tennis pros challenge when competing with another hard hitting opponent. Steffi, who is an all-court power player, compensates extremely well against another power player because of her athleticism and reflexes. There was even another school of thought that if you hit junk (i.e., moonballs, funky spins, etc.) that Steffi would get frustrated which would result in error-prone forehands. Sure both hard-hit or junk shots may cause her to miss a few forehands but it would not impact her game overall.
That’s the reason why Steffi’s forehand is legendary. Not just because of the power, placement but overall consistency. Just like Serena’s serve, Steffi’s iconic forehand rarely broke down, was never a liability, and always a deadly powerfully accurate shot! Without a doubt, Steffi’s forehand is the greatest forehand ever!!!
Yep! Hit late, choose where u wanna put it🤗or the with the more/angle/slice/lift /bounce or whatever… just THE shot
Virginia wade said thé power was generated by her hands! Have u ever tried to hit a ball as hard with such a grip ?? Still trying myself😂😂😂🙏🙏🙏🙏just to hit that perfect one👌
What a ridiculous analysis. That's why she's got 22 Grand Slams, and you've got your clickbait videos.
Steffi’s FH is “shoulder based swing”, similar to Delpo’s FH. I wouldn’t call this “all arm” FH. “All arm” would be beginners at the club hitting FH without hitting shoulder moving into the shot, ending up hugging their own body at the finish.
Forgive him, he is a kid tennis specialist…
OK. I just can’t stand his comment criticizing and telling people that Steffi arms her FH. Geez…
@@Widmer09 pro’s racquets has very high sw and heavy. She use gravity and waist to swing the racquet. This saves a lot energy so she can spend more on footwork than swing. The draw back is timing and swing speed. Ideally she don’t need high swing speed for damage but she might hit ball late if ball speed is faster than her swing over head. However, that is not an issue 20-30 years ago.
@@user-yh4zx4ky9jAgreed. The point I was trying to make was Graf does not arm her FH. And she has some racquet lag in her swing. She doesn’t need super fast racquet speed to generate the power and spin, because she hits most of her FH shots squarely (flat). I don’t think Pete Sampras swings very fast either. Same reason.
OK… I LOVE Steffi… I would NEVER try to copy her form but hands down she was AMAZING. You are correct in saying that it worked for her. She did play against Serena and Venus. Her forehand matched up well or even better.. what was most impressive was her athleticism and foot speed. 1999 Wimbledon semi vs Venus, Steffi at 30 made Venus at 19 look slow… That goes to show that a tennis athlete is more than just a cookie cutter pattern of what works best. Today, there are SO MANY juniors with the same MO… “atp” style forehand and 2 handed backhand, bash everything and rarely wonder into the net… etc, etc.. They all look alike… I wish modern tennis would allow for more personal variation. BTW, MANY WTA players on tour still use the “wta” forehand… it creates a flatter ball that works better for the women…. I do enjoy your videos but what you say makes me wonder sometimes if I should continue watching… I was thinking of buying your online course but this video has make me rethink…….
She was the best at her time..ok?
Her forehand was incredible..ok?
She will beat you today…ok?
Boy, you are talking shit..ok?
Nonsense.
Totally right. Worked for her for another era. It's not the modern stroke.
Nonetheless she won so much matches and GS because at the end of the day she oversucceded in keeping the 4 tennis principles that provide the saint grial of tennis: Full Consistency.at its highest that doesn't have to do win the modern forehand or refined technique:
(4 Prinicples aren't mine just in case. Do you agree?)
1. Extraordinary reading of the ball. Watch the ball with high intensity.
2. Extraordinary movers so that have great balance.
3. Hitting 70% of the time or more between the waist and shoulder height.
4. Begin the takeback/unit turn and START the swing BEFORE the ball bounces (that means you have to have N°1 previously, that is you have to recognize immediately a ball to the right or left).
The more I look at Steffi's arm movement when she hits a forehand, the more it seems to me that it's very similar to Juan Carlos del Potro's arm movement. It would be interesting to check this in slow motion.
Steffi’s game has always been unorthodox. Her power on her forehand was due to her hands. She was able to pull her hand through even when hitting late. Steffi had the best racquet head speed during her era.
Just because Steffi can't get into the courts today and prove you wrong doesn't mean you can say whatever you like... A forehand is not a dress style that goes out of fashion, just to give you a hint...
Yeh, right. She would beat you 0 and 0.
Vincent, in order to support your position, you could make a video with the campairison of graf's fh with for example serena's fh highlighting differences.
Her fh is similar to del potro fh and halep fh. She has a eastern grip. And her fh was a Nightmare for her opponents for 20 years.
Now we can only imagine the fitness level she had playing tight clay court matches with her hand on a lone mission without body back up.
🙄🙄🙄…Oh please
Seriously? Criticizing a past champions strokes? A 22 Grand Slam winner, with a calendar golden slam?
And by the way, Serena has a WTA forehand, and even if you consider the ATP style the "right way", Serena won 23 slams with it.
Why not criticize Rod Laver's forehand, with his continental grip and two calendar grand slams? Or Jimmy Connors' forehand, with his record 109 singles titles?
A world class champion, would be a champion in any era. The adjustments Steffi would have to make would have more to do with her backhand, not her forehand.
Forgot to mention, with modern strokes, Steffi would be lethal… Iga would be her closest rival in terms of foot speed and movement…. Maybe CoCo???
She could still beat you with that forehand and age
Analyzing 1 shot to cancel Steffi's forehand??? Don't overpower yourself Doctor. Wrong way to make a diagnose. Examine your patients better next time.
What utter nonsense this video is.
I wish the new generation of players learned to move around the court and hit on balance like Steffi did. It seems the new technology of strings and rackets make up for poor technique so players can still get off a competitive shot.
Oh wow, It would be incredible if she ever ever got the chance to play her and we could watch. She still looks good today hitting. her forehand was unconventional by the standards of her time. It would be intersting to see todays players play her on her surfaces with lower faster bounces better for the continental and eastern grips.
It would def work today
Very brave to shake a hornet's nest :P The assumption is of course that the techniques of today are better than those of yesteryears. Even if that is true, in the criticism of Steffi, we cannot ignore the uniqueness of her talent. Even in Steffi's heyday, critics were saying the same things and recommending recreational players not to follow her forehand and how flawed it was. 40 years later, it is still the same criticism except in comparison to newer forehands. What has not changed is her success and how she pummeled those with even more old school forehands eg Evert and newer forehands eg Serena. The bottom line is if a person has good timing, his stroke will work. What truly sets her apart from others are her speed, timing and coordination. In this video, she clearly at her old age holds her own agst a younger WTA pro: ruclips.net/video/SgGlINjiEHU/видео.html&ab_channel=TopTennisTips
Its not about technique but raw natural ability, look at coco gauff, her forehand is a blend of classic vs modern and she is at the top of the game. She can do it because she is very fast and has alot of raw natural ability. But you're avg club player won't have the co ordination to replicate that.
In the 80s noone hit forehand like her , ahe was always late at the impact....
You always want to stir up controversy. I think for the most you are correct but Graf utilizes a vertical forehand on majority of her strokes. This type of forehand is a defensive shot and uses more arm strength than the modern forehand. However all pros use a vertical finish when they are late, preferring that over other techniques. No one, except for Nadal, uses it for a majority of their strokes in the modern game though.
lol…aren’t you the one who claimed Federer is the first using modern forehand? Everyone before him is classic and his peers all copied him? 🤣
Tennis balls were much faster in those days.
Who told you😂
Cheap clickbait
1. that is a bad video because she is pretty late there. (the first section) 2. a good flat forehand can still work in womens tennis nowadays but the girls have no clue how to play it. 3. funny to criticize one of the best forehands womens tennis ever saw. LOL
U r the first person ive ever heard reduce Graff to a medioce, powder puffer! Get a grip on yer own racquet.
Plus Juan delPotro didn’t pat the dog either!
😂😂😂
You are so incorrect, wrong, etc...She has rotation, she hits the ball as well and hard as anyone ever has. She would annihilate today's "talent". You are ignorant, and are only saying this, on board with "today is better".
Monica Seles had won 8 grand slams by the age of 19 against Steffi Graf, who was 4 years older. Unless Seles was injured or stabbed, she would have won a lot more than 22 GS.
would is the key word here. and she did not
I lived in Germany during the Steffi days and l was one of her biggest fans. But l must say her gameplay never improved. She had a formidable forehand and only a slice backhand. She never mastered the backhand like players of today. I don't care how many grandslams but that era that included the likes of conchita Martinez was too weak. She even struggled against Monica Seles who was stabbed in Germany by a Steffi fan because Steffi was losing.
Today‘s players never mastered the slice backhand.
Steffi’s topspin backhand was there when she needed it.
When a 39/43-year-old Kimiko Date was able to beat 5 different slam winners of the 2010s in 2010-14 a young Conchita Martinez certainly would dominate today.
Do you really think clowns like Vondrousova, Raducanu, Kenin, Ostapenko, Bartoli, Wozniacki, Stosur, Azarenka, Muguruza, Stephens, Krejcikova, Pennetta would have won slams in the Steffi era…?
😂😂😂
@@carrerau7138Steffi was good for her era but she was a one dimensional player. She wouldn't be able to match the speed and power of today's players especially the likes of Sabalenka, Rybakina, Coco Gauff etc.
Also her game never improved but she also didn't need to improve against weaklings like Conchita Martinez etc
@@trommelbiel Modern players don’t agree with you, boy.
😂
@@trommelbiel Modern players on Steffi Graf:
“Certainly, I knew how to clobber the ball and I was top 10 at that point, but I realized immediately that I was a so much worse tennis player than Steffi. … Steffi had shown me my limits in a devastating way and that was a good thing. I began to understand.“
(Andrea Petkovic, on her practice session with 41-year-old Steffi Graf in 2011 in Las Vegas, Tennismagazin, June 2019)
However Date-Krumm is convinced that if ‘Fraulein Forehand’ made a comeback today, she would still be world number one. “Yes I think so,” she says. “And why ? Well because tennis is not only power and not only age.“
(Kimiko Date, Tennis World Magazine Exclusive, October 18, 2011)
“If she were healthy, she could play on the tour without any problems. She is so fast. Her forehand is amazing, the slice barely bounces. It's hard to play against her. I'm in the top 30 and not bad at all, but when I play against her I don't feel so good about my ranking," Cirstea said of the 44-year-old Graf.
(Sorana Cirstea, tennisnet.com, July 25, 2013)
@@carrerau7138OK. What l know is she could have improved her skills if this was her era. But that era was too weak
hurry and drop the doctor off ur name.
u gonna come for steffi graf’s forehand??