Throne and Liberty - (A REVIEW After 600+ Hours)
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Throne and Liberty... (originally a Korean PvP centered MMO) has finally made its global debut with Amazons backing, and what I see is an extremely mixed bag.
Good enough to capture me for 600+ hours already, bad enough to give me 20 straight minutes of criticism for a youtube video, and a very good reminder that community is everything in a social MMO... this game has earned a solid place in my memory as some of best (and most frustrating) experiences of any MMO.
Solid recommendation to try it, but everyone should be aware of what they're really getting into, and set expectations accordingly.
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UPDATE: Youll hear me say "if I even get the title" in this video at one point, but it turns out that there is no such title. The "streamers" explicitly lied to their alliance and used them under the pretense of rewards that do not even exist. To reiterate my final thoughts, the fact that one would even care about this kind of deception really does speak to the level of engagement the game can offer... (im sure some people have an inverse, and incredible experience compared to mine)... but the reality of how this group continues to conduct themselves should be accurately known, and criticized.
Also: I dont know why but I ended up getting Netease stuck in my head while scripting instead of NCsoft and reversing them. This is not AGS and Netease its AGS + NCSoft.
I'm a simple man. Upper Echelon uploads a video and I watch it.
Most streamers are cancer.
@@UpperEchelon thats why i never trust any bonus or gift related thing and only view what i think interesting for fun only.
I respect your work bro, but this sounds like some kind of cult, and the narration comes off as pretty unhinged. Not trying to bag on you or anything, just seems a little off from your usual quality.
I greatly appreciate you making this video. Everyone knew how trash these streamers were and how toxic and snake like Kanon has been. @UpperEchelon
No wonder the uploads have slowed down recently
I know I'll never play the game, but it's still pretty interesting to hear a review coming from 600 hours of insights.
“The players are the problem” is often stated of most MMOs and multiplayer games in general these days. “Meta zombies” that screech and lash out at any one not playing the exact same way as “the pros” do, are one of the big reasons I don’t play MOBAs anymore. Sorry to hear about all the bullshit but glad you had that nice little golden age before hand to be nostalgic about. It’s always bittersweet when an MMO gives you a sense of regret for not cherishing the really fun times when you had them.
That is exactly why I quit playing League of Legends years ago. Got sick of getting yelled at for picking off-meta characters or not playing the way the sweats wanted to. I think the whole pro competitive scene gives people the mistaken impression that they are just a few matches away from greatness all the time and they fold under the stress of not meeting their own expectations.
I second this sentiment. The amount of raging meta-retards throwing games when I just want to play Teemo support got me to stop playing.
Edit: Even funnier is seeing people play whatever off-meta thing you did some time after because some big streamer did it.
People will often counter with 'Well if you're not playing what is best, you actively making it harder for your team mates!'
No, that's not how this works. That argument only holds water in Competitive modes where every statistical advantage can matter. Then again, these same people often don't even have the fundamental skills to make use of the meta anyway which is hilarious. It's a crutch
@@Lehanna Indeed. I can actually explain why my idea works, and they are unable to tell me why it doesn't work.
Yeah blame the players not the dev`s for poor balancing lmao
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me of why I stopped playing MMOs. It's not the P2W, it's people. I am too old for this stuff.
"Hell is other people"
Can't remember who said it, but nothing ages you faster. 😋
For real after awhile and years of playing MMO i just dont want to be in that toxic setting
It's both, really. WoW was my first and only MMORPG, because Blizzard fucking created it. I had fun, it turned into a grindy job ... then the story and everything went completely sideways, so I left. I also left LoL behind for similar reasons. It's just too much of a job ... and having to deal with (toxic) people all the time is exhausting, so: the best multiplayer experiences are free for all death matches, like old school Unreal or Quake. With no progression, no chat, no emotes, no unlocks, no nothing, just pure gameplay with a community that cares and publishes their own maps, modes, etc.
Those days are LONG gone, so all that's left is imho shit that will destroy your soul and/or life eventually.
Games with free methods to obtain premium currency are awesome, until those methods become abused by bots and phillipinos getting paid to play for other people
Be a Warframe in a world full of Lost Arks
@@asmkalrizion7078 honestly im fine with something like farmer as long as they play by farmer rule of not destroy the price and keeping the price in balance. But i absolutely say NO to bots. Every private server game that i play was ruined badly when bots become rampant and destroy the economy and the game matchmaking system.
It already happened with TNL. If you look at their news they took action against RMT, which was people who bought the premium currency
@@saschaberger3212 The difference between Warframe and the other online games is that Warframe is mostly just solo/co-op in smaller scale so there isn't really a reason to bot/race in it. Especially, when pvp in Warframe is dead.
In Warframe ppl either like the exploration/discoverability of new things, trying the newly obtained things out or building op min-maxed builds, so they can make the grind faster/more fun.
Filipinos??
I made it a personal rule to never touch any games that use the mobile "energy" resource.
Same really
Been multiple games that I’ve tried out that suddenly throw this on you after a tutorial and I feel my brain disconnecting
@@Darkilikill but can new players catch up or if I start now I am forever months behind?
@@rolf1819 That's what I would like to know as well. I got a new PC that can actually run the game now but idk if its too late to start or not?
@@DarkilikillLiteral reddit NPC take
@@Darkilikillbot, your dungeon loot is gated. Just stop sckng off ncsoft
A pvp focused game ruined by toxic community, meta slavishness and single-celled streamer organisms? I'm shocked, shocked!
This review helped me realize that I don't want to invest any time into this game. I am now deleting it. Thank you for your service sir.
i was in the middle of downloading and immediately uninstalled after this lol
@JuliusNovachrono17 same here lol
Not finished watching yet, but your experience with meta-bound players reminds me of my time playing League of Legends.
A long time ago, I used to run Attack Damage Malphite when people universally expected Malphite to be played as a straight-up tank. My build absolutely wrecked because, at the time, he had an absolutely broken AD buff that temporarily boosted it up by 40% when maxed. The amount of flaming I got for not going tank, even when I announced to my team beforehand what I was planning to do, was ridiculous. More than once, I carried a game despite one of my allies intentionally feeding the enemy team.
Months later, a pro streamer started running a build very similar to mine and suddenly AD Malphite was broken (which it had always been), to the point where RIOT intentionally changed the character to remove all AD interaction and terminate the build.
Not sure what the point of sharing this was other than to commiserate with you. Meta slaves suck and, frustratingly and amusingly, mock the people they will someday emulate.
BRO AD MALPHITE WAS THE GOAT! I miss that build alot ngl
@@Razorhunter9 I wish they had nerfed the build instead of removing it. Alas, RIOT kind of went on a crusade eliminating alternate damage type builds and drastically restricting build flexibility.
I guess I can always treasure my memories of evaporating the opposing team's Katarina in the Baron pit and then soloing the remainder of her team after getting shit talked the whole game by my team's Vayne. I think the funniest part was grabbing Ravenous Hydra and dealing more AOE than direct damage. I punched a tank so hard his AP carry died from being too close.
Hopefully T&L's dev team doesn't cave to its meta-bound players in their balance decisions. Games that allow expression through real build diversity are few and far between these days.
I feel you on the off meta plays😂 me and my brother used to go bottom one with Pantheon and Xin Zhao, or Taric and Leona. Basically weird pairs that had no business being in the bottom lane, and we would always destroy the enemy team cuz they wouldn’t be expecting it.
Most people have very little business complaining about straying from the meta when, at their skill level, just having your teammate's back is enough for you to get away with a ton of BS. Man, I would not want to be in bottom lane against two hard stuns played by two maniacs - especially if their jungler is paying attention. lol
Yeah l had a similar problem. I liked playing full AP malphite support and my adc almost always flamed me for it (this was before AP Malphite was more widely used). half a year later some youtuber popularized the build and ppl started playing it more on other lanes.
I just like avoiding AD builds as much as possible. For example in ARAM l just have fun with full AP tryndamere with snowball in > spin back.
RELEASE THE LIST!
Any guesses? I barely watch streamers let alone TnL streamers where they just pay to win and think they’re the best 😂
Probably kanon, he’s the one that complained about zerg alliances and then he made a bunch of zergs and they’re in the same guild. Epherium or something.
Its Tanks and Liberty, with Shroud Kanon Solid Sonii etc.
sounds like every korean MMO in existence
This is not a NetEase game, this is NCSoft, same dev that made Lineage 2.
Sadly that doesn't necessarily change the warning
Now that explains how they lifted the Castle Siege mechanic from L2 almost verbatim!
@@theAessaya yeah, Thrown and Liberty is essentially lineage 3, it was actually started as lineage 3 and just pivoted to be it's own thing setting wise midway through development, otherwise it's just a straight up sequel.
@@rexex345 I see, thanks for the info :)
This is the first time I've heard someone praise time-gating. XD
Kinda have to or people out pace updates in a month
True but i say just make the content good and replayable for that time.
This game did a good job with it.
4:46 this is the heart of all mobile gaming today too
yeap, its called copium
Gonna be honest, sometimes I forget you were a video game channel once upon.
23:24 Note on the Castle Siege defender. The first pre-selected defending guild based on activity, was just for the first battle.
Now that we had the first Castle Siege, the defender will be the previous winner.
Edit: Also, it's not just 10 guilds that fight the Castle siege... maybe in a tiny server, however, in Ember (top 3 server in EU), we had over 50 guilds fighting at the Castle Siege, whoever wanted to show up, could.
^ and I played it on console sub top 20 guild was a fun experience
Only top 8 can interact with throne.
@lukaszebelovic2847 not true lol
@@ralmslb then explain the line on tnl official website that says top 8 guilds participate for throne?
I play it on console, it’s surprisingly fine. It does have extra jank sometimes with the terrain and especially the hook-chain thing. As far as large groups of players, if you take off other people’s skill animations, it runs fine. I have yet to experience anything that would make the frames go as low as the video looks😂
You've obviously never done guild v guild pvp. On console you lag so much that you can't even get 1 hit in
I used to be a power gamer, min maxing stats over countless nights using third party sites, making my own databases with countless hours of testing etc.. when TnL launched i deliberately refused to play on the first week, i made a test character as i always do and then created my main, i decided to stay away from any serious guild even though i was 3.2k gs in two weeks full free2play, it took 3 weeks for me to go do first guild boss run and i didnt even rool for gear :D and heres why: you are not playing a game your guild leader is, you cant do what you want, play how you want, or do things that you enjoy, It turns fun gameplay experience in to a job. Also the DRAMA, theres non of that in chill guilds. I like pvp and i like small group fights i dont want some full of self rat telling me that i cant go hunt players at night time or that he needs me to swap to a harry potter wana be! Its your game play it as you will, if anyone tells you different dont argue just walk away that person is only worth your pity not anger they probably have nothing else going on in life.
I absolutely DIG massively researched reviews like this! Thank you! Could you maybe add "chapter markers" so people who are especially interested in specific aspects can skip to those easily, in future?
Big respects for the video. I played on other servers, in two different guilds, who were also in alliances and even fought once for a castle. We also had the same thing. There were even local streamers who also turned the game into crap. But the first guild was also terrible without streamers. The raid leaders were terrible, they didn’t understand what they were doing. And then when the guilds started merging, we started jumping around different servers.
First for a free coupon, then you had to spend your lucents on it instead of getting dressed.
I'm glad that at least someone is talking about this, because most streamers try to remain silent about the negative side of the gaming community.
It's sad that players are so dependent on guilds in this game that they are simply turned into slaves and rich players use them for their own dirty purposes.
My GM decided to reward himself with Belandir staff the moment it drops instead of selling it and share the profit to everyone so they can mass upgrade. Long story short we got our ass kicked by rival guild because we don't have enough people with decent gears. What grinded my gears is that the brat had the galls to says "it's ok guys it just a game, it happens." Like what the fuck, you made the bad call. Worse is that he obviously have his own circle and would give the boss gears to them instead of people who actually know how to use them... I quit that guild last night...
Honestly man that was my main worry when starting playing this game thankfully I joined a guild that has a very fair system in my opinion but we haven’t had an arch boss drop so I don’t really know how that’s gonna go but anyway you made the right call, f them😂
@@Necronman L take. 8k lucent spread between 70 people is fuck all. Much better to loot council the item to make the guild stronger in PvP.
And each player might be able to buy 1 good blue trait from that? Ye neat
@@cozzy6547 it dropped when it still priced at 100k+, at least in my region. I forgot to mention that the prices are different depending on which region you play. I think EU has them the cheapest .
@@Mindcrow Womp womp. Must be expensive to play in the country that lets their kids get blasted in schools 😂
Great review! I played 300h - +3k gs F2P as that "pve soloish like player after leaving BDO 3 years experience aswell" and as a TL leader of guild for players like so to have easy access to guild tokens and buffs, nothing else. If anything will drive this game to the ground it will be 100% the elitism meta playerbase and impatience.
One thing you skipped and is actually going a lot on PVE discord is the loot distribution on world bosses. Talking about contribution affecting your chance to get loot so "Rich metas get richer" while peasant have some 00000.1% to get the second roll. Healers eventually got their contribution added from healing after complaining, even if on max health but tanks were left in dust on that topic.
Onto the rant now: You don't even need to be in any big guild to experience how bad it is actually. I am talking about players being kicked from random matchmaking dungeon just because they have blue gear. They do not even care anymore to keep themselves to party board, they literally started kicking players from random matchmake due to gear. And even if I would refuse such kick it was happening anyway. It was a joy to get in groups that actually wanted to chat, not speedrun and play as a team but those were too rare to keep me longer in game. I had lots of fun as semi solo pve player with occasional dominion public events but seeing the elitism snarking going through at any step, even where its not justified to happen made me wanna stop log in. Blue gear? - kick, Purple gear but not maxed traits? - kick, etc. I don't even want to know how it is for players who just started now and try their first dungeons via matchmake.
Overall I had good performance, no desync issues at all, pleasant pve routine with semi pvp not involved with any guild. I had fun working on my traits, gaining lucents and buying stuff from shop for it, no rushing and just enjoying the slow grind. What made me left aside from elitism was also the timegate on tokens as actual open world grind was never rewarding to me. The day I realized I had fun doing lots of dungeons and abyssal grind just to be left and needing to wait another few days just to max out on it, made me wanna stop log in at all. Daily 3 dungeons is too little for me as a non big guild "worker". And because 3 dungeons a day for me was just not enough if you want to work on purple gear traits and so on. I wouldn't mind grind in open world aside from tokens but another problem was also how absolutely rare it is to acquire blue gear from regular grind comparing to purple. In the end the game will lose the part of "relaxed" community slowly and be left with only big guilds, alliances, streamers and players who just wanna keep up with server gear score. Personally I'm too old for this sh*t so I left. Its not a game for me and I would only continue playing If I had stable full party of friends to go on. If not for community and hard requirement on having latest max gear score its better to just let this one go.
But on bright side I had good time during those 300h. Game is pretty, runs well for how it looks, combat didn't end up that horrible however, again melee players again will always end up on worse side than ranged. There's is definitely enough to do for people with limited daily playtime if they just want to chill alone or friends. But if community is the biggest problem in an MMO online game, no pretty graphics or costumes can save it. It still turned out better than I expected so it wasn't a time lost.
600 hours cause of timers and waiting
That's disappointing
Exactly. You have to be on the game to get anything at all done. It's a huge issue.
This controlling streamers story reminded me of my friend's story with his guild back in WoW Lich King (about 2008). He was one of the most active players in his guild. He played every day, his guild relied on him as one of the best Death Knights in the entire guild, he would play religiously with them, running raids, dungeons, battlegrounds, arenas and all that. One day he had to go out somewhere with his mother and he warned everyone he wouldn't be available for that day's activities and everyone demanded an explaination and threatened to ban him from the guild. I still remember his indignation when he told me the story, it was something like "these motherfckers think I owe them an explaination for why I'm going out with my mom, what the hell, man? This is not my job!". I couldn't help but laugh at the whole story. Every MMO has a serious community issue, it seems.
MMO player have a major issue : they don't understand that not everyone cares as much as them. They think their way of playing is the correct way and anyone caring any differently, be it more or less than them, is wrong according to them.
I've played almost 400H myself and I agree about the community in general. Good thing I found a great guild and that even things out!
I left the game once I realised you had to join a guild, I usually play with just a few friends.
I guess right , then .
Because I had played mmorpgs in the past and they are guild/ clan based games I stay with multiversus as the last free to play game I might play ( with the exception the mobile phone games).
I'm part of a top 5 guild on my server, barely ever run with them I'm 99% solo .. over 3.7 GS...
If you love castle siege, have you played Conqueror’s Blade?
I played Cyrodiil in ESO for years but it just became too broken over time. But in the beginning, those castle sieges were absolutely engaging and thrilling.
I also played the game solo-ish in a mediocre guild about 300hrs and I absolutely don't recommend playing the game for long term. The game has P2W system and favors big whales who play alot. If you want to enjoy endgame mass pvp and win often, then you have to join top alliance guild and in order to join them you have to play alot and spend alot at the same time. Even if you join a top guild, you will have to deal with politics between miserable man children. In addition daily / weekly grinds become boring very quickly. It's fun-ish for about a month but after that it's too boring.
😂 3500 gs sitting on 4k lucent only 20$ spent. All you gotta do to get in these top alliances is be active and if the winning allies are full change servers
@@Saltmancer Your trash P2W game will die very quickly :)
big whales lol. I cant believe it, there is literally a "max", you can spent to get top geared, not only that - f2p will catch up and IS catching up quickly.
people dont know how to farm, what to do with their coins etc making these comments is beyond me. the game has flaws but p2w is the least of it.
and I have never heard of someone getting kicked because of their weapons. I mean you can literally block others seeing your weapon.
there are meta builds but half of my guild is running their own shit and we are top 3 and top 6 guild on our server.
So if you want to win in mass PVP you need to play a lot and be in a good guild? Wow so unfair!
@@jeff2209 Nice try omitting big wallet too. Remember I also played alot as F2P. I know the typical P2W apologist lies.
This sounds like you had a similar experience I did when playing Overwatch 1 on release. I mained Hanzo at first, did incredibly well and every game people would complain. Healers would switch to DPS, because they thought I wouldn’t do enough. Later I mained Junkrat and dominated almost every game I played, and because he wasn’t considered “meta” people in ranked matches would insult me at the start of pretty much every game. You don’t need to play “meta” because you might not play the meta well, so playing as the character that you do best as with the equipment you play best with is each person’s individual meta. I wish people could understand this. It’s heavily dependent on player gameplay tendencies. I also played a mean Mercy and Lucio, and Reinhardt was probably my best besides Junkrat. I miss those OG Overwatch days. The best multiplayer experience ever
Man it might be silly to put it like that - but how we do our leasure truly reflects our feeling about life.
Now tell me that a society of ever-growing consumerism doesn't make people miserable and desperate for any kind of approval.
In fact treating people like numbers and not like human beings - is a perfect slice of that. They were never treated like humans by their families and societies, so they desperately want to feel accepted and approved, but they don't know that they want it from other equal human beings, so they see an ersatz of that in power, which will never satisfy them.
They don't see others as humans because they don't see themselves as humans, because they were never treaded as such, so the concept doesn't even make sense to them. But you can suppress the basic human desire for meaningful connection and belonging, so they are moved by it, by they don't consciously understand it, and therefore are moved in a twisted blatantly wrong direction.
When it comes to most MMO type games, it doesn't matter how undefined the meta is, there will always be players (mainly ones from Asia) that will complain at you for not running what's considered to be the best of the best.
I know in warframe, for example, if you're not using a heavy slam Wukong (or whatever the meta may be now), they'll treat you the same way you got treated in this game.
Man, the toxic ass player base is what finally snapped me out of my Warframe addiction. I used to play chroma back when he was underused and overlooked cause CC was king. Eidolons released and suddenly, Chromas ability to destroy everything with any weapon and make every weapon viable was no longer allowed. Guns no longer do any kind of meaningful damage and melee is boiled down to crit chance or status. At one point slide attacks was the only accepted meta....
Don't get me started on the level of content creep....
@@TheeMFGr0uch oh trust me, I remember those days. They are still there to an extent, but the power creep has gotten to the point that you can make any weapon good. The meta is fun, so if you do decide to come back, you're not gonna find anyone complaining unless you're playing noticeably poorly.
The hell? Warframe players don't speak.
The only thing that MIGHT get that kind of elitist nonsense is some tryhard 5x3 Tridolon hunting group. Outside of something like that, nobody cares what you bring as long as you don't repeatedly die.
@OniGanon like i said, this is mostly in the Asian side of warframe. Most other regions are like you said nowadays. They don't say anything unless you're performing noticeably bad in a mission.
@@NathanTruby Ah, I see. I'm mostly on the NA server, sometimes Oceanic.
I love that you still make gaming videos! I've installed throne & liberty on xbox and this video is just what I needed. Been watching your KCD videos recently too as I've returned to the game. Hoping you will be covering KCD2?!? 👀
I’ve played for 600+ hours. Joined a guild that happened to be in the top ten on our server. Did the siege, then a guild advisor sent out message afterwards stating they only wanted 7 particular builds to participate. I checked the guild advisor builds and it just so happened that it was all their builds that all of the other 70 players would have to change too. I now play solo and have way more fun.
I really enjoy this game but absolutely acknowledge its problems as well. Love to see content in my genre like this from one of my favorite content creators
I'm in Korean server, and also a member of the 1st ranking guild in one of the server and I agree with this video.
Things that makes me want to quit are:
1. Super repetitive and boring dailies. Frustrating because you know they are doable and give you some benefit, but the reward aren't that great. It feels like it's there only to make you log in.
2. Being in the top guild is fun, but at the same time, you're basically guild's slave and have to stress about all the schedules. Or else you're out. And after experiencing how top guild can benefit you, you can never go back to some chill guild because you know you will be missing out on some good stuff.
3. Dungeon mechanics. I'm decent at it, but finding a decent party is also a RNG itself. Solution to this is to run it with fellow guildies but sometimes they are busy and you just have to find a random party and it'll take an hour or two to successfully run T3. I hate it.
Things that makes me keep playing are:
1. Graphics and the skins (costumes and weapons)
2. All the money that I've spent on this game already.. Eff.
3. My character looks beautiful :)
This could be a documentary on MMORPGs man. Incredible, engaging personal account of your real experience with this game. A+.
Was about to start this game and I’m glad you said it’s ok to play weird weapon combos. I’m gonna play sword and staff and fuck all the haters.
Very fun to play but requires a lot of R&D. There will be little info on how skills interact and how to tweak a build for your play style within the off-meta weapon combo. You will burn lucent and have slower skill progression because you're trying to optimize it on your own.
Good luck fellow "low tier" enjoyer!
@@jesza4183 yeah i told myself I would play this game the way I want until I hit a paywall and it stops being fun, this should hold me over until PoE2 early access hits. I found a pvp build someone posted that looks viable, but every time I ask questions in world chat people start talking about sex or make jokes and don't actually answer the question.
I gave it 120 hours but I couldn't imagine doing 600 hours. I really liked the game, it was beautiful. But I played lineage 2 and I knew where the end would be. Clan focus pvp games really reward elitism and drive normal players out. But my pet peeve was just the dungeons, I thought they were poorly designed with no pick up mechanics to rescue downed players, who wants to have to restart boss fights because someone made a mistake or missed a jump. It made early dungeon runs so toxic that I simply didn't want to run them after completing them once.
Solid review, i agree with alot of your takes as i approach 350 hours. The fact the entire auction house is done with real money currency is such an amazing thing for a free 2 play player it's really hard to understate it. I have made over 1200$ worth of real money in the auction house in 30 days. I have spent about 120$ dollars outside of that. With the realization that the price of items will only go down, and the minimal gap in power between blues and general population purple gear, I just sold all my valuable drops early, and now that the market is crashing I can fully equip both my characters.
you spent $120 on this game in a single month and you think its f2p friendly? okay bruh
most dentge comment ever
I'm just gunna assume you entirely lack any reading comprehension or perspective. Being able to make 1200$ worth of paid currency, in an f2p game, farming items for free, is amazing. It didn't require 120$ as an investment or up front cost. I chose to spend the 120$ on unrelated crap beyond character progression as the ability to fund my progress through in game options made it much easier to spend that cash. Now it's awhile later, and I've made another 4k lucent, from nothing but free farming. I imagine you'll still fail to comprehend how nice this is compared to most games.
Got to the part where UE said “free to play” STRIKE ONE. Then to the part where he talked about “Stupid player base” STRIKE TWO. And then he talked about the “Time gated part of the game unless you pay money” STRIKE THREE, and I’m out of F’s to give about the game already. All within the first eight minutes of a 42 minute video. Well I guess he saved a lot of time watching the rest of the video, or ever playing the game myself 🤷♂️
byeeeee
Oh no @fordthundercougarfalconbird isn't playing shut it down
@@jeff2209cope harder. Seriously though, this game will NEVER crack the top 5 mmos.
@@aries4378 hate harder lil b
I recently started playing guild wars 2 after playing this for about 40 hours or so and gw2 is incredible
Salvage wars 2 , it’s just zerging and opening bags and boxes for junk. They literally nerf mobs after 30 mins to not drop better loot. Dead pve and pvp
@THEREDBARON777 stop yapping, GW2 is one of the best MMORPGS out there and I don’t even play it anymore. Throne and liberty is Korean trash.
I did everything the game offers, was in the #1 guild in my server.
We won like almost every conflict fight, some new zerg joined and we actually had a pretty good fight back and forth.
But then all of sudden our guild and alliances imploded because some no life kids were having an argument over stuff and the guild leader kicked like alot of us, me included for having a opinion on the topic they argued.
Long story short, the new zergs are now the #1 guild while noone can compete with them. Alot of people got kicked and their loot stolen which where in the guild stash (yeah it was send to guild, not players) and all in all i realized that you can dedicate your soul to a guild, faem guild rep, do guild missions and attend to every fight to just get kicked over some no life 35 year old stinky dudes that behave like new born fetuses when it comes down to simple things like loot distribution and stuff.
So if you are on a guild make sure that you can be kicked any day when the guild leader is on its period.
I left the game, RMTd my horded lucent and never will touch a guild based pvp game like this again.
It is fun at its core, but the community makes it bad
Sorry to hear the bad taste left in your mouth over the guild stuff. I had a blast playing with you guys in the alliance and hope to have more fun in the future. See you around!
I run sns/lbow and ppl be nagging me about it about this off meta build until they realize I'm unkillable 😂 and hit them with stuns, tornados, pulls and finally death. Only to whisper their excuse how they didn't win
this game has a rare breed of playerbase
I play GS/bow... Same story. Melee Eva over 1.5k they can't hit me unless they range plus I have a large pool of hp and sustain healing
@@LegendRonk GS/bow is bad though. Dagger would give you more evasion, against magic and range as well (600 buff) from the passive skills. You’d have 1500 melee, range and magic evasion.
@@LegendRonk basically, if you’re evasion gs/bow you’re gimping yourself by not going dagger. You can still do gs/bow, just don’t do evasion because any ravager would obliterate you with the same evasion build since they’d have hundreds more than you plus extra hit chance.
GS/Staff here and people gave me crap as well until they saw how strong it could be being able to CC with both weapons. I got the title but does it really matter? No. The GM ninja looting, politics, and toxic community makes the game unenjoyable.
GG's brother. Fun playing in the alliance with you.
I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the idea that novelty becomes monotonous after a bit. The reason I stayed away from throne despite wanting to see what it had to offer, is that I knew as a result of it's daily focused structure, I'd hate it just like I hate gachas. Games that also reel you in with novelty (and gambling) and have nothing after that honeymoon period wears off. Hence why for MMOs, it is important for that communal aspect to be strong since that'll become the draw rather than the game itself.
I really don't understand people who can mindlessly grind out games like this solo.
Game is one of the most boring mmo’s I’ve ever played. It just shows that the mmo community is so desperate for something new to play that they’re willing to invest in this garbage.
What’s so bad about it? Please enlight me with knowledge
Having a blast playing. If you're going to say it's boring, at least state why. Seen a lot of copy and pasted comments like yours.
@@AmplefireHow far are you into progression? Once you get to the point where you have to farm dungeons for purple tier loot it really just drags on, in my experience.
@@androshernandez7515 Just watching parts of this video bored me to death.
I cant imagine playing it longer then 30 minutes or so, so mindless.
@@Amplefire maybe it’s because a lot of people think the game is boring lmao. I played the beta and was bored after an hour and never picked the game back up. It’s a pay to win mmo with stiff combat and a mobile game UI. Does that answer your question?
Thanks for your perspective. Sucks that your experience was distasteful. Look forward to seeing you play the game again and getting a more fitting experience. Is there anything you could add for a co-guild leader or someone new to an MMO like this? Currently 200+ hours and as someone who doesn't love the loot system, I'm only staying for the guild I've built with a long time friend. Thanks in advanced and best of luck!
5:10 LOL this brings back memories
I truly hope you did enjoy this. I hate the idea you feel obligated to put so much time into things for us. Love your videos man.
The true MMO experience is the one outside the mechanics, it is 'the friends we made along the way' and the ones we lost to some IRL/online Game of Thrones type drama. I remember playing Ark, and literally sitting at my nieces bday party having to green light a wipe (I was the leader of the server's Alpha tribe) that was going to end a friendship by wiping another clan, ran by a friend. Shit gets real at the high level.
bro, I feel so bad for you. wow! ❤
after observing other games from korean devs(Lineage 2, which also had castle seiges and others) I feel the bots are in with the devs. We'd report someone botting and scripting to cheat the pvp flag system and then WE would get punished for harassment. I saw a person type a whole expose about it on the ncsoft forums but it got deleted. This is like, 2004, waaay before it was f2p. People bought just.... regular currency on the internet back then. That's all ya needed. Now i figure they control the regular and black market for premium currency.
very good and fair criticism. I'm having fun playing the game.
Great review! Thank you so much. I used play AION (another KR MMO) back when it was pay-to-play. Really been having that huge scale PVP itch but couldn't find anything similar. Wasn't there for AION classic, it's probably bad by now.
That lag from having so many players fighting brings back so many memories 🤣
i'm very interested in this one thanks for the vid. How is the variety of spells on casters? the worse part is that the community based everything makes those of us who aren't good talking to people to fall behind or not even be able to play. blah.
This is the realest review of the game I have seen.
Thanks for the great content,
I've been watching you for a longtime, your take on this game is balanced and realistic, and it made me subscribe.
Black Desert online used to have a similar style of PvP they just called it Siege instead of castle siege. How they did it worked around node wars (it still does but ppl didn’t like the most recent changes to make it easier for new guilds to join , they are reversing the uncapped though for them giving them a choice of new or old system while keeping the capped the new so it’s more new guild friendly in capped) ppl participated in node wars and had to win. The winners could then participate in siege to fight for one of the many castles 1 day a week. The last castle owners would then defend the castle. You had to be winners of the node wars during that week to get a chance to fight for the castle while the previous weeks owner defends.
They could do a similar system in throne where they used Boon/rifts and defenders could be the previous weeks owner. They should also limit the amount of alliances and members that can participate as well. That’s one thing I think BDO did do right. They also have different levels like T1s are for smaller guilds 25- 30 players then the uncapped T5s are like it was 150 including the alliance but they lowered it more recently I am not sure the new numbers but yeah this was the total amount involved in the fight with Alliance.
So, in the end, it's just Lost Ark again, but with a different skin, a smattering of mobile grind games and a pinch of Lineage 2... :D
It's nothing like lost ark
Not even remotely similar to lost ark besides them being Korean and grindy…
I kinda wish they make a guild version of the Co Op dungeons , so we don’t have to rely on random que. I find with the random co ops it’s harder to get guildies to help me out. With guild stuff the guild will schedule times to do it. So it would possibly make it more possible for those of us struggling with pugs that started later and having trouble finding ppl to help us learn. If they were available as guild content I think guilds would actually schedule stuff.
I honestly feel like half of the negative things about the game wouldn't be as big as a con if people approached it as a game and not as a second job.
You're always down to the point - Thank you for creating this video. (SolidFPS name) is reminding me about DV2 day as well.
I wish we got to see and hear the terrible behavior of the streamers/guild leaders and their sycophants.
Back to new world we go
32:00 good to know I wasn't the only one. Game has a lot ofndrama.
21:44 console player here. You’re not giving enough credit to the power of the current gen. Yes, siege was a slideshow. World bosses are fireworks shows. But the game holds up well and doesn’t have much more performance issues than PC.
But oh god… the targetting and the grappling/gliding…. It’s horrendous
Honestly one of the best MMO's I've played in recent years, glad everything is able to be gotten for free by selling stuff on the market for premium currency more MMO's need to do this, like you can buy Lucent the in game premium currency with real life money to skip a little time but your never forced to and doing dailys and getting a juicy drop that you know can sell for a ton just so you can get that one cool skin you liked in the shop is just so satisfying.
It is a p2w system but one i can live with and to be fair i havent spent a cent on the game so who am i to complain
Tbh basically every game with a player market i've played functions like that or you can sell premium items and get payed non premium currency from other players (so ftp can grind non premium currencies for premium goods.)
Right below your glowing comment is someone saying the game is boring and mmo players are desperate for anything. I wonder who is right.
@DauthEldrvaria both can be right.
absolute baboon this game isnt good its a mix of all other mmos put together there is so much wrong with this game total time wasting machine
I love when smart people talk about stupid people eloquently. SUBSCRIBED!
the build you run seems fun how is it at lower power levels? cause im willing to roll an alt account to check it out (dont wanna mess up my main in case i dont like it), do you have a link to your build :) ?
I'm having fun playing it .
Good video! Glad you did a honest video big respect.
thanks for the insight. i saw streams of this game and found it intriguing, but i've found modern mmos terrible with their daily quests, theme park design and boring gameplay loop. i might check it out.
Exposing Kanon lol
4:20-6:15 literally the best take. People who copy/paste their builds are suddenly professionals
WTF was this video, I've never played an MMO and I never will after hearing the cope in this Review. The whole experience sounds toxic AF, and it sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.
Damn a review after 600+ hrs.... I got bored after 130hrs and havent been back to it for a whole month.
600 hours on the newest p2w garbage? On upper echelon channel? Something doesnt feel right..
We come from The Division brotha, We have a bad habit of putting up with games that have issues and a shitty community. 😂
Lol I was part of tanks and liberty and tankge the drama they created was unreal. Literally every rare boss drop caused drama I finally had to leave because of the leadership too lol
Fantastic review. Informative and human.
lmao the bottom mashin while fighting dren at 5:00 😭😭
I think I got to 40 before I quit playing, I really didn't enjoy the experience. I'm glad you could get 600 hours out of it, but I just couldn't do it.
Same class here Battleweaver (Staff, Xbow) most people early game told me to switch to meta weps. Until they see me running dungeon bosses and be #1 DPS even sometimes beating Scorpions. I couldn’t really careless about meta, I play the way I play 😅
I haven't even reached 300 hours in Witcher 3.😂
I was in the same guild, experienced none of this toxicity, and they had a good reason for every one of your issues. Everything was communicated and explained. Plenty of half-truths in this video with a mix of jealousy from you bro. It was a fantastic castle siege that came down to the wire. This was on Xeroth and was one of the best MMO experiences I've had in a long time. Since you aren't reading comments, I am sure that this won't matter, but I wish you the best.
I really really loved this game. Then they nerfed the healer / support role.
Now I do not care to play it anymore as they took the one thing that made this game enjoyable for me away.
Yet they will allow these goofy players with greatswords to stun you to death.
How did you build your staff crossbow? I wanna do the same.
4:30 something I always think and suspect when people start complaining about being meta. The existence of a meta is not the game's fault (it can be, but I argue it's not the usual), but the players' problem. Players who aren't willing to experiment or go with their ideas and just go look what guides tell is the best and then pretend everyone follows the guides. (Bonus tips: I've gotten to the point I'm absolutely fed up with guides. I've some times looked at guides for FFXIV or R6S for things I had not clear or wished for a bit of a push to hasten my improvement in the game and I ended finding most if not all the advice is wrong, some times not even being followed by the guide creator. Like seeing a R6S guide saying "never use ladders" and then going to his livestream where he keeps using ladders including the one shown in the guide's example. And when I've looked anything at The Balance to compare with my rotations... well, I stick with my rotation, at best I see why something they propose to be differenty, at worst I clearly see it as worse than mine, as such I don't trust it when I look their answer for jobs I haven't yet 'understood' properly, and the one or two times I tried on a dummy, I didn't get any better result). Also, this is the reason I uninstalled after a brief play of the game: I was willing to put up with the light clunkiness I felt from the combat, but I heard already how set players are with metas and I'm not willing to deal with players insulting as a rule.
yoooo! Special was the good ol days :(
Played it when my friend said "they updated combat"
Fun fact they did not 😂
Cool game for community not a fun gameplay game sadly, not for me.
I have the opposite experience. I really like the gameplay but I'm not interested in dedicating myself to a guild.
Yeah the combat is so boring.
Bravo honestly everything you said is what i been thinking while playing the game and what i think majority of people will end up coming to the conclusion to. Coming home from work to play a game that feels like another job just to be still behind the whale unless you DUMP even more money to play kinda on par is pretty cooked.
To be fair these are issues with hardcore guilds not so much any particular mmo with streamers being the most sweaty. Casual guilds like the one i'm in don't do a lot of PvP but the goal is purely to have fun when we do.
I didn’t know you were chill like that.
Its crazy how much $15/mo adds to the quality of a community. I'm will never again touch a free to play MMO. That is, if I can find one that isn't full of FOMO and allows for drop-in/drop-out participation at all levels of play. Haven't really touched MMOs since MOBAs destroyed casual MMO PvP.
WoW's community is terrible though, so a monthly fee doesn't necessarily preserve a good community.
@@immorttalis i dunno what youre talking about. every MMO community has their toxic players. but WOW has been going for 20+ years. theres so many different types of servers, classic era servers, fresh servers, tons of private servers, private p2w servers with 4x xp, private non pay to win servers with turtle xp rates, hardcore wow if you really are into community and streamers. the HC wow community is one of the best of any MMO anywhere, theres literally so much diversity and so many different types of communities that play wow, all with different servers, discords, i honestly dont think you have any idea what it is you are talking about
the second half of the video is the reason why I hate social mmos. Rather be solo and skip the drama.
The community on my server doesn’t seem to have the same level of nonsense. There is definitely some to be sure, but servers are like communities and they feed on each other. There are servers that have a more positive community. If you want to transfer contact and I’ll tell you which one I’m on
I've played for 250 hours. I intially started this game with very negative viewpoint. But it slowly warmed up to me, mainly because of the aestethics, being very medieval with Armor that actually looks good.
I really, REALLY enjoy the class sysytem in this game and the way you can put togheter skills to make your own kinda skill bar in a sense.
However I play a very non-meta build which I have time-tested again and again in both pvp and pve. (Disciple build). Never have I experience a community so toxic on "meta", and I've loss count how many times I've just been kicked out of dungeon parties for simply being a Disciple. I play it as a Main tank, and do it extremely well, also helps I've got plenty of Tanking experience from countless of MMO's i've been playing for more than 20 years now. So yeah.
That really put me off the game in all honesty. Can hardly play with randoms, only the few new friends I make along the way and ofcourse my group of old friends. Grouping is hardly a problem for me as I've got a set of people i always play with, but trying to get new people in and socializing with OTHERS in the game is really hard when it comes to good ol make friends through dungeoning which was quite common in games like WoW.
"Heavy emphasis on pvp" okay you got me
4:44 OH GOD I WAS NOT READY FOR THAT LMFAO
yeah I really wonder why people even bother playing complex video games if they’re so dead set on not thinking at all ever
7:12 oooooh it’s one of THOSE games
huh maybe I won’t play it after all if everything is so timegated
well honestly the combination of this playerbase and the requirement to engage with such large concentrations of it would’ve probably kept me far enough away by itself