“I make $33,000/month. He makes $3,500. When will he step it up?”
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Ramit Sethi of I Will Teach You To Be Rich talks to Nicole and Jorden, 30 and 34. In this Part 2 episode, we unpack the deep emotional wounds caused by their lack of clear and honest communication about money. She earns 10X his income, but the hidden stories and assumptions at play are what threaten the future of their relationship.
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Can’t-miss moments:
00:00:00 - 1: Opening
00:03:03 - 2: Nicole is surprised by what she wrote in her application
00:04:32 - 3: Jorden is speechless
00:11:32 - 4: Jorden reveals where he got his money stress from
00:17:51 - 5: Ramit points out the fundamental difference in their money perspectives
00:26:19 - 6: Ramit breaks down their numbers
00:32:48 - 7: How much do they need to make?
00:40:56 - 8: What's at stake if nothing changes?
00:46:17 - 9: Ramit is not letting Jorden off the hook
00:54:00 - 10: They finally start making a plan
00:58:47 - 11: Where are they now? Nicole and Jorden's follow-ups
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If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here: forms.gle/pjYMaLeThJM3z9uN6
Produced by Crate Media.
0:00 Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
Would love to!
I would actually love for you to evaluate my finances and get feedback. I have it but don’t know what to do with it so that it’s working for me. I don’t know how to invest and I’m only saving.
@@Shelincali9 start by reading Ramit’s book! You will learn about investing. Use his journal to know where you are at not only financially, buy with your money mindset.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
Definitely!
My buddy was in this situation. Worked as a firefighter making 55k a year but had a perfect credit score. Met his wife when she was bar tending. Paid for her nursing school. She became a nurse manager making 150k in 3 years. Told him to step it up to adjust for her lifestyle. It's a double standard.
I haven’t finished watching this video yet, but it really sad that actually happened.
But at the same time I read comments that he lied financially 😅 so we’ll figured out later.
Both need to be accountable in order to works 😌
@@hanibee22 exactly. i saw comments judging her which are justified but lets not forget he lied. and lets not forget they both are avoidant as hell.
"The BIGGEST financial decision anyone can make is the PARTNER THEY CHOOSE" - This hit me on so many levels 😮
I agree. This is really sad.
@@lucillebaldwin6659 and why exactly is that sad?
Excellent quote
Duh, don't get a "partner"
Agreed
I felt literal pain for this man. This was gut wrenching.
Yep. He’s deciding to put up with this
The end was quite an eye opener. The sacrifices he has made for her. How can he be successful in business if he is constantly moving cities and has no support system? He may have sounded hesitant because he didn't want to throw her under the bus. She kept talking about her paying the CC but never once did he mention his sacrifices. He is an amazing guy who deserved better treatment on this episode. Why did Ramit not point that fact out? A successful business means building a pool of clientele and being consistent. He was made to feel as if he has no plan and he is a failure. I also feel hearing her email threw him off and he wasn't able to recover. I wish him the best but i don't see them lasting for ten years.
He needed to talk. I don't disagree but he wouldn't talk... it was hard to listen to.
@cokedclassic7627 he's probably been railroaded so long that his backbones gotten weak.
It's very hard to fail. Fail. And fail again then ponder wonder and possibilities.
Even at the end she says "you have coaches" (around the 50 minute mark) but it seems his self belief has been shattered.
You can get instruction and pep others up all day long. But believing anything is possible for yourself can seem so far from reality. It's especially rough when you have very conditional support from your "lover" who constantly rubs her success in your face.
He sounds like a broken down man. She will keep bringing this income issue up his life would be better if he just left. 33k a month is way more than enough if the roles were reversed this wouldn’t be an issue.
I agree. What she said in her letter really hurt him and really threw him off and he clammed up for the rest of the time. The way she wrote it was as if he was disposable and she could cancel him anytime from their lives. It was unfair.
I think Ramit struck out on this one. He didn’t ask about any sacrifices he made while she was a student. Or even going into debt thinking that it was okay to fund their lifestyle while she was a student.
She also double speaks a lot saying it’s not about the money but then measures his contribution to the relationship purely on monetary contribution. She wants a 50/50 partner and he won’t be that unless he is wildly successful. Top 5% of income earners many $400k a year. It’s a rare feat to expect.
I agree with this. I find that Ramit rarely calls out women when they are clearly on the wrong. (Also see the training male doctor who's partner was mistreating because he was still at a lower salary, forgetting that he'll be earning more than her in a couple years' time) The issue here is that the guy will never 400k, the lady has a problem with that. It is a simple case of whether she actually loves him and would support him regardless, it appears not. This man looks broken likely from feeling inadequate by what's he's been told. Look at the letter at the beginning, when will he level up, and she wants him to pack his bags. If i heard that I would just respect myself and leave, probably what the woman wants anyway.
The ending hits hard for me because my father sacrificed his education so that he could put my mother through school, just for her to end up divorcing him.
Nicole and Jorden's situation is less ill-fated. Jorden covered his business expenses and their living expenses using a credit card without making Nicole aware he was debt spending. Once Nicole started earning a high income, she helped Jorden pay off the $30,000 of credit card debt in less than 6 months. She's mostly worried that she might have to sacrifice her time with her children to help Jorden pay off any debt he/they might incur. Ultimately, I wish them the best.
he needs to divorce her and collect alimony...lol
This is why men should NEVER make sacrifices for their wives' careers. Ever.
“This man needs to pack his bags” is the most honest part of the whole thing. It was over when he helped her make wildly more money than him, it sowed the seeds of her resentment
Agree 👍🏾
“This man needs to pack his bags” WHY on earth would you publicly humiliate your man like that! My jaw is on the FLOOR!
Any man willingly to tolerate open and blatant disrespect on a public platform is no man at all.
If a man said, "I make $33k per month, she makes $3.5k...when is she going to step it up?", he would be considered abusive and greedy.
People need to stop caring lol It’s a different time now. More women are making more money now. If anybody wants that they can seek it.
My wife and I agree with you, Kyle +1.
It depends if shes raising kids, thats a full time job on its own
Rather if he were the primary parent and they had kids, this conversation would be a bit different imo.
@@jelemil Even if the couple didn't have kids, a man who said this stuff to his female partner would still be considered abusive and greedy. It's common to hear women say they want to be "equal" to men. Being equal to men means being held to the same standards of behavior that men are held to.
@@jelemil raising kids is 100% a full time job. However, she needs a reality check that she’s the breadwinner. They won’t be able to live in SoCal if she doesn’t work. It’s not realistic for him to start making anywhere near her salary.
This one was tough to watch. Jordan was so defeated, and neither of them could be specific about what they wanted. One thing they didn't talk about was how Nicole felt with all the pressure from her parents to (presumably) become a doctor of some kind. She knew for YEARS that her parents were saving aggressively for her education; it sounds like she wanted to focus on having a family, but now she's stuck working full time because she did the thing and has student loans to pay back. She's taking out her resentment on Jordan when it probably started with her parents when she was in middle school. I think these two have a chance, but they definitely need some therapy to work out their own issues if they're going to move through this.
Agree. And her school debt is a consideration for Jordan in marrying her. He supported her somewhat during school which gives her a higher income and now that hers is more and he's trying to build his business she's not wanting to support him. Also she could put money away so when she has kids she can cut back on work and have a cushion. Very brave of them both.
@@staceyswanson3918 6 years is a long time though, and it’s one thing to be going to school and getting your education it’s another watching someone burn money for years on a business with little redirection to show signs of revenue growth.
@@evs8557 agree! I hadn't watched to the end when i commented but was thinking the same thing in my head. Find a better job!! Which makes her feel more secure too.
These two have ZERO chance. did you hear her? Nicole was very specific in what she wanted, that is she didn't want to be the sole provider when she pumps out kids. she isn't a year in her career and she's talking about taking time off to raise the child. it's not going to work out. put a fork in it. especially before she has a Child with him.
Wow, I disagree completely. Once she got some psychological safety, Nicole seemed quite clear about what she wants. Jorden is incredibly passive and indecisive. She wants a go-getter, and he's not it (right now). Jorden needs a new job, the current one isn't working.
Geez that was a brutal application letter
Seriously. It just goes to show the importance of communication in a relationship. Specifically candid conversations.
Yes, I understand people say things out of anger but if that's any indication of the pain she could inflict on him in the future, he would be best running away from her and towards a more functional relationship. He seems like a good guy and sure the hell doesn't deserve to be treated like that.
TBH, I feel that if he made $400k and she made $40k that this would not have been an issue. I doubt he would be asking her to level up her income. Even if she made $0 and was a stay at home wife I doubt that he would complain.
Agreed. This is an untold dynamic of women working. Many women have a very hard time “dating down”. It’s going to be very hard for this extremely successful woman to find someone she can respect. And she’s crushing Jorden in the process.
@@awsambdaman facts
It’s really hard for a man to date a woman who earns more and makes it an issue…
You are correct. Even if he continued making 40k, but was with a woman who made 50k this wouldn't be an issue. Because a school teacher wouldn't have said to him "we're getting a big house in California because that's what I want and what I can afford," then as they sit in that big house realize that to keep affording it, she'll have to keep covering the cost. They are living within her means, not his, but she wants to be financially supported by him once they start having children. He can't just will himself into earning 10 times more. He's not being lazy. He's just an average guy with average earnings with a woman who wants a 1% lifestyle.
The sad thing is he supported her through school, and put his own goals on hold while her dreams dictated where they lived and now she despises him-he created a monster.
men please leave the relationship when your wife is disrespecting you bluntly/publicly if not it is a steep cliff with no return.thank for the video
200k as a personal trainer is a pipe dream. He is never going to live up to her expectations.
Exactly. He would need to become a social media figure and scale his business digitally. Just by selling his time, it ain't happening.
Yes and she already essentially said that he isn’t good enough for her in her application letter. This relationship won’t last.
I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking like this. He’s done-so unfortunately for him.
@KnightFox it's sad because he helped her get to where she is today. Women never respect men that make less than them.
@TheAlfredPlatform say it loud for the people in the back
Jorden is putting so much pressure on himself! It's not about the money. 'There are so many other ways to provide'. Well said, Ramit! :)
Or BS on your girlfriend. 30K is a lot of stinking money, or I'am the only one that thinks that. This guy reminds me of my X-hus, comes onto the program for what??? Help or sympathy, or please feel sorry for me, after I took 30K, ok the guy got some good views, what else is new?
@@tabathia7633 Without truly knowing them, you are just projecting!
@@dpayne1943 Correct, but I'm projecting from the knowledge from being projected to your public, what is being taped. True, he didn't answer for quit a while, even you projected that silence. Knowing these people, only behind closed doors is the real, true facts, as in my own marriage. Mine was a total lie.
I usually enjoy these episodes, but I did not like this episode at all. I don't think anyone on this episode got to the heart of any real issues. Because the real issues are not about money, they are about priorities. Nicole wants to be with someone who makes a lot more money so that she can be a part-time stay at home mom while maintaining their current income. It's unclear what other skills Jorden has, but his personal training business is not going to make the amount of money necessary for Nicole to have that lifestyle (same total household income + part-time mom). As a couple, they have to decide how important it is for Nicole be at home part-time and if that IS a top priority, what lifestyle changes or career changes need to be made in order for that to happen. Not every person and not every career is capable of making $400k. Some careers take a long time to get to $400k, some careers take years and years of schooling to get to $400k and some careers cap out before that $400k salary. Nicole and Jorden could also adjust their cost of living to make Nicole's goal of being a part-time stay at home mom work. Lots of things are possible. But it is unclear what life priorities both Nicole and Jorden are aligned on. And that's the biggest hurdle here. I felt like Nicole was being very punitive, honestly. Without saying it explicitly, she wants Jorden to "step up" and make $200k and for him to figure it out on his own. Since a marriage and a family unit is something they build TOGETHER, Nicole and Jorden need to talk through what's most important to them and what options they have in order to make that dream come true. Honestly, it felt like Jorden was being punished for not being able to make more than $3.5K a month. And that felt really unfair. If my partner told me I need to quadruple my salary overnight with support on how to get there, I would feel pretty shitty about myself too.
I think it’s ok to say that for this relationship they won’t last or continue. She said in the first episode she doesn’t want to have to work and be a full time mom because women tend to take on more of the responsibilities when it comes to child rearing in the home. So she wants him to be able to continue to afford the current lifestyle. She’s making 30K a month. You would think that she would be able to save up in preparation of having the baby whether that’s a nanny or whatever. But that would lead to resentment of having to save for the children, take care of the children, and work part time?!? It’s not looking good for him
Ugh I totally agree! If anyone can just...make 200k, wouldn't we all?? And what is this extravagant lifestyle they're trying to live? They could be happy living on just her cut back 300k salary lol. I'm not quite finished the episode but am so annoyed I came here to see what people's thoughts are...this one is really dragging out. Ramit is not asking the questions to get to the point, I kind of feel like I don't even know what they're talking about. Like the goal is to get Jordan to make 200k...? Ok....
Yes. I hated this one. Like really. If she worked part-time at 300k and Jorden quit his job to be a stay at home dad they could still have an amazing life. Even is SoCal. Honestly, I did not care for her at all. And I kinda felt Ramit was really harsh with Jorden telling him his business really wouldn’t be successful….
First one of these I've watched, for some reason I never realised Ramit is such a good mediator / therapist kind of guy. Doesn't take any BS, very helpful advice.
yea that's his whole goal.
I've only started watching this series recently. I read his book and used to watch him on Creative Live years ago. This is a refreshing way to give money advice and help people not feel alone. I relate to many of the guests I've seen so far. I also wondered if Ramit went through "therapist" training to be able to take this approach. He is quite skilled.
Thanks for the reco I’ll go looking for the older episodes prior to RUclips. I quite enjoy this series.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
@@leealex24 Dang, I did not want to hear this
Man I would never be able to crush my husbands spirits like that, like my love for my husband outshines income. I just feel thankful I make close to what he makes.
Many women have this mindset and leave their man
The Netflix series was entertaining, but I far more enjoy your RUclips series and podcast Ramit. I’m thrilled to see you’re following up with these couples. The long version is so educational and helpful to so many. This was a very painful episode to watch. Jordan seems riddled with shame and guilt. Nicole seems withheld and resentful. She even use the word “contempt” which happens to be one of the four “horseman” as an indicator of demise in a relationship. Their plan seems unrealistic and unworkable. They should run not walk to a therapist who will call them out as you did Ramit. Are used to be somewhat passive in my expression in my relationship. I was married 26 years the first time and now 19 years the second. I’ll skip over the first mess… In my marriage currently we started out with vastly different financial standings. I owned a home and had my own business and no debt(other than mortgage). My husband had a very different relationship with money. He’s the most generous man I know, and the result of that is he had nothing for himself. He worked harder than anyone I’ve ever known in his business, but had nothing financially to show for it. It took years for us to work through issues on both sides. One thing that I would say was a dealbreaker is clearing out debt and we did that through the Ramsey program. It’s not for everyone and maybe not even for us, but it did have us talking regularly about money and working toward a common goal. My husband cleared all of his debt in less than two years. his income tripled. He started investing in higher end equipment and together we created a business where we deal with mostly high-end clients who are not shopping for the cheapest price but who want the most professional job. Maybe Jordan can make his business work with a shift in his mindset about his clientele but first he needs to shift his mindset about himself. Nicole needs to get real about what she wants, and if Jordan is the man, she will love and support without contempt or resentment. This couple is very brave to come on your show… For them to do this, they have the ability to make this work if they want to and they get really serious about doing it. I wish them all the best.
Thank you for listening and your in-depth thoughts! Talking with Ramit has been a great catalyst for us to talk and come up with a plan, together!
@@JordenPagel Pretty brave to come on this podcast and share everything with us, as a pt myself i can only imagine how hard it is for you to have a steady client base with all the moving around, i wish you all the best for the future.
@@rory644 thank you!
Massive grey wall of text.
Consider hitting the enter key a couple of times after a key thought.
@@JordenPagel ♥
She is clearly low on self confidence, but not worse than him. She knows she should move on but either feels badly after their journey together so far or she’s left it so late that she doesn’t think she can find a match quickly enough thereafter. He’s insecure, and probably was before they got together. He’s petrified to lose her, and that’s generally unhealthy.
I see her confidence as ok but I feel like she holds back to spare his feelings. She should move on. there will always be an unequal power dynamic here that will just magnify if they have kids.
Totally unrelated, does anyone think the lady resembles Blake Lively?
YES
Like so much! Wanted to type a comment but felt but I wouldn't be adding constructively to the convo but now it doesn't matter lol
I felt like she also resembles Kelsey Impicciche
She does! But before her nose job
Don't be lame and compare someone's looks to a celebrity. Such a poor person's move
Out of anger the truth is revealed,do yourself a favor and move on..that isn't the woman for you. Goodluck!
This is not about money. But, I truly admire their courage to come and share their journey with us! 👏
We appreciate that!
It's definitely about the money. Add a few more zeroes behind his income and there isn't a conversation to be had.
@@MissKashirayou are smart
@@MissKashira The hidden credit card debt is a significant aspect. Nicole expressed concern that Jorden might accumulate additional debt in the future, prompting her to help pay it off. Jorden needs to restore her trust and alleviate her worries. While some may believe that Jorden earning a higher income would completely resolve the problem, if Jorden were making $30,000 a month and incurred enough debt to cause Nicole to sacrifice her time with the children to contribute to debt repayments, there would still be an issue regarding money.
This was very painful to watch. It is very difficult when two mindsets are diametrically opposed and it takes a lot of intentional work to align. The only contributions in a relationship are not always financial but both parties need to feel as if they are being appreciated and not taken for granted. For most of my marriage I made more however my husband is very handy and creative and while I paid for the materials he renovated our home. Anyone that has done this knows that the labor can cost same or more than materials and this allowed him to feel as if he was contributing. Now he is making more and I work from home and I carry the majority of the home chores. Everything is about balance and communication and the occasional compromise.
This podcast is the therapy I didn't know I needed 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Always nuggets of wisdom that I'm able to take away from each one, even if my financial situation is different
Same
Also helps me feel more sane 😂
Having parents teach yo financially literacy is a blessing. Most of us have to try and figure it out yourselves.
My parents taught me but my personality had to learn the hard way.
My parents didn’t teach me and I started to learn it myself in my late twenties. Better late than never!
If anyone is wondering how a recent grad orthodontist earns $400k, she works 6 days a week at 7 different practices! Homegirl is savvy. I'm glad they came up with a solid plan with a couple options and a timeline post-interview. It gives me hope that they are finally hearing each other. Hope things work out for them ❤
Things will never workout for them. No woman will ever be happy with a man that makes this significantly less than she makes. He will get verbally and emotionally abused and also get cheated on. He has little to no self respect and his life down the line will be absolute hell. I’ve seen this movie too many times.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they get a divorce within the next year.
What I got out of this whole interview is that she is able to make a lot of money but wants to scale back once she has kids, why not start living in that income bracket already and save? Or find another spouse that is in the same career that will be able to keep up with her. He seems emasculated, which is sad.
I’m surprised him getting a job wasn’t a solution until he could figure out a business model that works. In California, getting a 6-figure job might be easier than starting a business. Even though their money values are different, their communication styles are similar. Very passive. She won’t tell him to step up and he won’t speak up or offer solutions. Ramit has to pry him for answers and to articulate his thoughts. Can’t wait to see how they fix this.
I’m happy that they were able to come up with a few solutions.
I live in CA. Me and most of my friends with 6 figure job have remote work. If you're in the frat club, maybe your friend of a friend can get you an entertainment job.
Orthodontist paid so well!
I was wondering why that wasn’t an option anyone talked about too
Another 10/10! Thank you for expressing your appreciation for your guests' courage to come on your show. I am learning a lot and I am beginning to understand the childhood roots of my own journey with money. Neither of my parents talked about money, and I rarely remember them fighting . When I turned 18, my mom gave me a book titled The Money Book by Sylvia Porter, but said nothing more about it. Like much else, I was expected to do my research and apply the lessons learned--somewhat like being tossed in the deep end of the pool and being expected to learn how to swim! I remember that she reduced the value of nearly everything to what it cost. Both of my parents were very transactional; if I gave mom a gift she remarked on how much it must have cost. However, she did her best to instill in me (at least) the RULES: don't impose on others (this was rude), and don't rely on anyone or express your feelings (these were shameful weaknesses). I remember she said that parents weren't required to love their children; they were required to provide food, clothing, shelter. Anything else was a privilege. While this pragmatic upbringing made me self-reliant, it took therapy to unwind this emphatic conflation between self-denial with self-worth.
If you truly love and respect each other you build your lives together regardless of who makes what. $300,000+ is play to live on. I found this so sad.
It’s been a while since I came across a GOOD podcast. Thank you.
Gulp… I truly give people props for having the courage to come on a podcast to vent their issues with something that is the hardest issue for couples to tackle!
Them being this courageous is already a huge step. It also helps anyone who may be going through similar situations.
For this couple, please I beg you, don’t have kids. having kids will not fix your problems. Continue to build your relationships. Build the trust and confidence that you can completely support one another
Amen
Agree. Oh hell, it will be a disaster if they have kids.
Yep @@yagga8885
Their issues are deeper than money. You can so tell that their income disparity is a symptom of it. It takes a lot of unity, loyalty and intentionality to make it through the issue(s) at hand. I wish them well.
I have spent most of my day watching your videos today. I have watched your Netflix show in the past (I've watched the whole series 2 times and some episodes 4 or 5 times so the principles can sink in) and I have cried through most of them. I am moved by the vulnerability people share and I am blown away at the idea of just how many relationships your tools have potentially saved. I appreciate the fact that you use hindsight in each situation and you as a coach learn from your clients as much as they learn from you.
Thank you. These words are so simple, and yet carry so much weight.
Wow! Nicole comes across as not super sympathetic! If the roles were reversed no one would give a second thought to jorden earning 10x more. There are so many ways to be a great partner. SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE THERE FOR THE KIDS. It’s all theoretical now because you don’t have them. Kids don’t just raise them self. Well adjusted kids need a present parent. A nanny can’t do this part. I think Nicole needs to get real. If she wants to work three days she needs a different partner. I just can’t get out of my head that her parents wouldn’t let her go out to dinner with a friend. Is it only me or does that seem a bit too far?!
Whoaaah!!! I just listened to the first minutes but follow ups to the Netflix show!!!! Looking forward to hearing your follow up with Matt and Amani
I’m a personal trainer, reasonably successful. Jorden’s story is eerily similar to mine and I felt that pressure. It gets better with a therapist and actually taking action on the things. Yeah money is nice but it really isn’t the main problem.
He has a deeper problem in being ok with having massive debt and the life mentality of "we'll figure it out." Not good.
100% true I make 100k a month (I own 8 gyms) and I don't even have a wife or gf to get on me about money 😅😅
This was the the most difficult of all the podcast episodes for me to listen to. I wish them the very best and I do believe they can have a positive outcome with ongoing professional support and a new opennes in their relationship. Vulnerability is going to be important. There are some deep seeded things here. Numbers are not the problem.
I just finished watching last night. I was sad when I was on the last episode I didn't want it the be over.
Reunion episode! Hooray! Thanks Ramit!
Great session! I tend to judge too harshly at first glance but you take the time to understand and be compassionate at the same time being realistic. Love this series!
Thank you for sharing. Very brave couple. My parents were extremely poor. All the things I learned about money I had to teach myself. Some of them were very painful lessons. This video is excellent about getting past the guessing of what your partner/spouse feels about money and actually talking with them -- making plans, together. Compromise. You are right -- there are many way to contribute, not all of them have to do with money.
This is amazing! Reality checks are always needed
These are so useful - I can see parts of myself in both of them. The biggest lesson I took from this was the importance of being realistic about finances, instead of engaging in wishful thinking and making unrealistic projections about my financial future.
I feel for both of them. I’ve been there before. There was a lot to unpack here but I 100% understand everything she was saying and felt.
I think jorden comes from a good place but he hasn’t been holding himself accountable for what it takes to be in a marriage where both partners contribute… it doesn’t mean you have to make the same amount, but it does mean that each person can sustain the household if the other needs a break.
The pressure comes into play when it feels like If I don’t or can’t provide everything will fall through the cracks.
Jorden doesn’t have a plan and isn’t realistic about his future and his financial responsibility. It’s tough. I’m glad they were able to come up with a plan that works for them. ❤
She should definitely walk away from this relationship. It is very risky for her financially due to the high chance of paying alimony to him once they divorce (if they were to marry one day). Not worth it.
Agree. I can't believe they bought a house together.
See what "divorce protection" got us.
Of course a women would say this but you marry a rich guy.
98% of American households make less per year than this couple does. This isn't about money - they can EASILY live very well on that amount of money. This is about an unbalanced relationship, and gendered expectations. I am guessing that Nicole also does more housework than Jordan does.
It is about money when a woman makes more money than her man especially a lot more it can cause issues
54:40 couples retreat and couples therapy mean your relationship is done
If the difference in the income was less then it wasn't a much issue for Nicole..
that stat is a weak representation being that she makes FIVE TIMES as much as he makes.
@@truebengalsfan every one is super polar about if its about money or not. reality is these are not mutually exclusive. its about a LOT of things. its about money, its about gender roles, its about capitalism as well. all these things influence who we end up with and how we behave in our relationships. everyone wants to pick ONE THING that this is about that they feel the closest to emotionally. newsflash its about many things. also couples retreats and therapy can fix relationships so to say its done means you are ignoring more data and facts lol. particularly when plenty of people never go to therapy, stay together forever and are MISERABLE the whole time lol
Jorden is trying so hard to get the "right" answers for the interview...and he is so tense. I'd be surprised if any of the teaching would actually sink in.
The only lesson he needed to learn is not to put himself 30k in debt to impress a woman. Everything besides that was just a public shaming for being a regular guy.
Rooting for both of you, not an easy conversation to have! Hope I can be as courageous as you one day.
Hello ramit..ever since i have heard your book on audible..i am a huge fan of yours..and your tips are really helping me..esp the one to pay credit card debts ASAP and automtating my savings and investments..thanks a lot for this book..
They cannot marry each other. This is me and my husband's present situation right now. We cant break up since we have 2 children. When we got married he was a successful man and even paid for the whole wedding. Then right after, he started loosing a good job and haven't been able to get back up from before. I thought initially i only have to pick him up temporarily, then it wen ton and on and now i didnt realize it's been more than a decade now that i was just picking him up. For me, it's not really the money, but more on looking for a leader, for a man to lead my family. I became so musculine that i now work 3 jobs just to sustain our whole family. I feel like he took away all my femininity and my role being a mom. I'm just a working machine now.
Yes, tired of men becoming feminine these days, they need to step up and be the provider
#feminism that's freedom right? You don't need a man. Isn't that the whole point?
So it is not about leadership then? Not enough money = not enough leadership according to you.
Upvoting so more men read this vile
It’s not fair for him to be pressured to match her income. It’s just not possible for him. If that’s priority for her, then she needs to find someone in her income bracket. Period.
Love this podcast!! Keep it up brother
I love the follow up.
Ramit keeps talking about Jorden's net salary while allowing whatever her name is to talk about her gross income. But supposedly Jorden's gross income is actually 70,000 not 30 or whatever Ramit keeps saying. And she just mentioned her debt for her school loans so that's a big chunk of that $33,000 a month gross. All of these episodes sound the same after a while. I don't think I can keep watching. And she told that whole story about her parents putting money away for her education so why does she have so much school loan debt? I just can't stand how she's so holier than thou.
I just started watching this video. I’m not in far. I’m at 10:44. Ramit, I’m so glad that you said that there is more than one way to provide. Providing means watching the kids when Mom is sick, providing encouragement and support when she goes back to school, or making dinner after she had another late night at the offices.
I knew a couple where the woman was the main breadwinner. She had a great job. She went to school to get his master’s degree. He was in charge of setting up play dates between his daughter and my daughter. He did the majority of the cooking. He had a job, but not a career.
After she obtained her master’s degree, it was time for him to go back to school. He works as a high school teacher now.
Couples need to do what’s best for them. The reality is that more women are earning college degrees and are making high salaries. Women are out earning their husbands. In order for couples to be successful, they need to figure out what is best for them.
I don’t have a problem with how much a person earns…I have a problem with how much effort my partner makes…
How do you measure their effort or the success of their effort? If your partner worked 15 hours a day and brings home $1000 a month and your expenses are $5000 you would very much have a problem with what they earn even though they are putting out lots of effort.
Its a known fact women cannot tolerate a man who earns significantly less than they do.
Average man makes
If he doesn't make profit, she is just funding his expensive hobby. He can contribute and put effort in many many ways.
I wonder... who does the dishes... cleans the floors... cooks the meals... does the grocery shopping etc.
If it's her.. I totally understand her dire situation
@@angostura7797 average is about 40k lol
They needed a marriage therapist before this, along with individual therapy. I'm a therapy enjoyer, and I also a woman who makes double what my male partner makes. He's my confidant and I am his. But if I was always dragging our conversations back to my unresolved issues, we would get _nowhere_ as a couple.
This! ❤
they aren't married yet
Wow. Women wanted equality. Well they got it. Some women will earn more than their partners. Deal with it or go live with some cats.
That transition of references from the "Soul Provider" to the "How can we be lovers" was artfully done (and actually summarizes almost the whole situation)!
Also, I really appreciated personally the loving pressuring on being more decisive and proactive with making decisions. It's definitely been an achilles heel for me many times (and honestly still is).
Just like the first part of the episode, massive respect and gratitude to all three for the honest, courageous conversation and the responsible navigating of these delicate subjects as well as the necessary reality checks (and psychological analysis breakdowns). 🙏
Thank you!
The follow up was very nice. I hope they can work it out
Great people. One of my favorite episodes. Please don't stop these discussions, Ramit!
He's not confident because he is afraid that any answer he gives will not be good enough. He is constantly second guessing himself. He doesn't believe he deserves to be with her. Her attitude towards him may have changed after her job. She must have wanted more from life than what he has to offer. She doesn't need him to make the money; the lack of leadership from his end is the problem which makes her inclined to make all the decisions. I get her fear. Her time to get kids is running out and she needs him to pull up. She does not see the vision because he has none. Women date broke men all the time but it's important for those men to have a vision and a strategy. Poor Jorden is indecisive and dating a woman who is very clear about what she wants. She can't trust him with him getting so emotional about the topic. The problem here is leadership. Nothing else.
Well said. He appears so insecure and anxious
She chose someone who wasn't a leader abd demands he be something he is FUNDEMENTALLY NOT.
She seems assertive and sometimes a tad brutish. The guy seems close to a Jerry from Rick and Morty. Awful combination sadly.
He may be broke now, but you forgot the part where he was solely supporting her early on in their relationship.
💯
@@PolitickinI don't think anyone's forgetting that. When he was the sole provider, he racked up $30K in credit card debt that she ended up paying off. It was just deferred costs for her, plus interest.
Have watched the netflix show and its amazing. Since then I have been finding your videos here in youtube Ramit. And have just ordered your book. Thanks.
Same! I'm very intrigued!
Ramit, been a longtime fan, never knew you always walk in slow motion. 😂 every episode - check it out. Meanwhile appreciate the show and all your advise!
Love this episode so far. i listened to the first episode as well.
Ramit is literally the coolest guy… his sweaters, his empathy… thank goodness for this 👏👏
I’m making changes because of you. Thank you. ❤
They don’t have a money problem they have a relationship problem. He helped her while she was in school and she is now saying he’s not enough so he’s feeling like she wants to leave now that she has a large income. They need to go to a marriage therapist, he’s feeling invalid and insecure and she’s too busy now because of her high paying job.
People are really missing the boat this. He did not help her during school. He put all of those expenses on a credit card and wasn't telling her. SHE then paid those credit cards off. She essentially funded their lifestyle + interest. It was his secrecy that caused the issue.
There’s a lot unpack in this episode.
It seems like she’s reluctant to have a candid conversation too. You can see her body language of smiling and shaking her head but then she’s not willing to say anything until Ramit actually calls her out. As if she’s already checked out but she’s willing to speak her mind in the application.
Like, if this is how she reacts in a conversation behind closed doors, it’s hard to make any progress.
Now, it’s possible she simply feels like he doesn’t want to talk. Who knows.
But I don’t know if it’s realistic in Southern California for him to make enough so she can work, say 3 days a week instead of 5. Pulling back on her salary is going to be a huge hit on their income.
She paid for her own school and he funded their life with credit cards secretly. Then she paid that bill. So they don not need a therapist they need a lawyer, that is financial infidelity. They need to go their separate ways as they have different paths in regards to money and planning.
@@hrhsophiathefirst4060 I missed that-she has NO student loans? She paid cash her education? I couldn’t find that info
@@travelnurseadventures3225no. Her student loans are going to kick in. But she paid off the credit cards that he used to contribute to their bills while she was in school.
Very powerful episode.
This episode was so, so painful to listen to. Jordan seemed so lost. I felt so bad for him
I saw all your episodes in 1 day.
How many was that? 😮😮😮
Damn Ramit! you are so great throwing those questions!
Great podcast series and Netflix show!!!
It is so important to start teaching basic finance starting in elementary.
I really appreciate Jordan’s vulnerability in this conversation .
I make a lot more than my husband and I literally couldn’t care less. As long as everyone is doing their part to contribute I don’t see why the amount matters.
Beautiful ending ❤
My heart goes out to him. Clearly he didn’t have the same upbringing with money so of course he doesn’t know how to move forward.
Very common problem women has enough and is mad with him because he is making less 😅
The first 10min hit me hard.
The pain in this mans spirit🙏🏾🙏🏾.
they aren't compatible, they don't actually want the same things
Got about 15 min left but they should not have a kid and they will not make it. She married a personal trainer- how much did you really think he could make? She os a high earner, and money is now an issue - he will not recover in her eyes - he is darn near emasculated. They both should move on. Imagine someone telling you that you need to double your salary to halfway meet the mark. Seriously- can anyone reading this comment double their income on the next 12 months without extreme measures?
Absolutely not, you need a lifetime to build that, and that's what he is afraid, he put his time building his business and doesn't know anything else.
Wow, this was tough to listen to. I just learned about this podcast and have been binge watching the episodes, and this is the first one I really did not like. It was so hard to watch Jorden learn his relationship was at stake and then get bullied into saying he should close his business. Just felt like kicking a man while he is down. I appreciate Ramit reflecting and realizing it was an interrogation, but I think he was in over his head with this one. I also don't understand a lot of Nicole's logic - she is on the fence about this relationship but talking about having kids?? I don't know. I wish them happiness and hope they can figure it out.
Re: " then get bullied into saying he should close his business." No one said that. He is not doing well in business and the 3 of them had to get that out on the table. She said he already has a business coach and he's still struggling. He thinks he can magically go from $40k to $200k in less than 2 years. I'm glad Ramit told him how ridiculous he sounds. Jordan lacks *insight* into his problems and how to fix them.
@samantha7669. I agree 100%.
Yay! I am excited that you interviewed them here. I like the show but love the RUclips!
I'm in the beginning of this episode but I think in the end her expectation is for them to share 50/50, I think it is just a question of semantics:
She earns 33k
Him 3k
She mentioned in the last episode that when they have kids, that she wants to work 2 to 3 days and they won't afford their lifestyle with "just" that money, if we assume that the income will be:
She: 15k (50% of time)
Him: 3k
I mean, for me to compensate for the lost 18k, he would need to increase his income in 15k, I don't see how this is too different from wanting a partner to share 50/50, at least temporarily.
Did they forget to mention how Jordan supported Nicole when she was in school? Now that she’s earning more, she’s resenting the $31,000 that her husband used to support her dream? She’s giving him a conditional love.
The reality is, asking for Jordan to earn more like her is like asking for a high income man to fully support his wife’s career like what Jordan did for Nicole. Her expectations are unrealistic and she seems to value money more than her relationship with her family. It makes me sad.
But Jordan didn't really support her. He paid for everything by getting them into 30K debt which Nicole paid off. So really, I would say both of them had equal footing in supporting Nicole through school but Jordan is on thin ice because he lied(or at least didn't mention) the fact that he was getting them into debt. I think its more the lying/omission that she's frustrated with - he just has a view point that everything will work out. It is WILD that he's even entertaining the idea of making 200K without much hesitancy. He has little self-awareness
Their plan sounds great. Hopeful for them
I am very captivated by the way Ramit conduct with people, very respectful, professional, great listener - double deal - a wise counselor, therapist, an excellent financial advisor. I wished I had listened when I was young. People now had so many tools... many opportunity to learn thru these wise guys. Thank you very much... I wish you success and that continue helping and inspiring people.
I liked how Ramit didn’t take any BS and pushed Jordan in the way Nicole can’t. But still in a respectable way.
@@majorfomo2 AGREE! And the fact that Nicole won't put her foot down tells you she will be a doormat, even if that is not the intention.
it's basically the best couples therapy ever
Thank you so much ramit for this podcast, very helpful ❤
I pay for youtube subscription to get rid of ads but I end up listening to the ads anyway with all the inserts from the sponsors. It’s starting to get on my nerves … a bit
The moment Jordan mentioned relationship retreat, I immediately thought of the movie Couples Retreat lol. That should actually be fun in real life.
51:56 "look at your smiles" the smiles: 😄 😐
Powerful ending! That was tough to get through but it sounds like they benefited massively from this episode.
I watched every episode.
Halfway through this video and it is very clear that they will break up and should. They will never be aligned financially. If I comprehended, she could scale back and make 200K instead of the 400K?!? Shes so concerned about that?!? The dude would have to be a stay at home Dad and do his business online until the kids get to school. They could use his salary to pay for cleaning and cooking to take that load off their hands while her salary can go to the housing. He would definitely need to be more hands on in the child rearing process but the money is a high priority for her and that’s ok. I don’t get how you could go into a high paying field and then be mad at your spouse for not making the same as you. She should’ve chosen someone in her field or adjacent.
I loved the show Ramit!
Good content
She just wanted him to have a *plan* and be growing. Listen until the end, ya'll!
I hope more people read your comment. The followups are quite interesting, and a great demonstration that to really change, you often have to have difficult conversations. This couple was extremely brave
@@ramitsethi Their turnaround was impressive 👏🏻 🙌🏻
Hard to restart your business twice when the product is you. I think she will understand that more if she opens her own practice. Yes, this process got them communicating, but only time will tell if that is enough.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
@@leealex24 Sorry, I know several very successful relationships where the woman makes a lot more or even all of the money (a couple of stay at home dads). The problem is that mindset. Once you let go of it and it becomes ours then it is no longer an issue. For this couple it is the difference in how money is handled and her expectations of a partner.
Great session... I struggled to see how these two got together in the beginning... they don't seem compatible on any level...