The code editor wars continue...
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- VS Code + Copilot, Zed, Cursor, and now Supermaven? The IDE wars are ramping up much faster than I expected...
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S/O Ph4se0n3 for the awesome edit 🙏
Devs will do anything but write code
Who are you ?
@@abdullahzafar4401 I am the ceaseless wheel. The last Scholar of GOLB. I am your doom.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
On the contrary, devs will do anything but not writing code. You literally need to write code to make an editor to not needing to write code.
Ha ha, I was thinking this myself when I consider the time I spend trying to 'automate' things!
stop making IDEs! Wait till mine gets ready
LOL... I see what you did there. 😛That was awesome.
JavaScript frameworks and IDEs are in the same situation.
Just wait for 10+ experience using brand new Vscode killer as a job requirement.
@@fakt7814😢😮😮😮😮
at this point I suspect you guys are just bots who spit out meme-y comments about JS to leave in youtube comments
@@PraiseYeezus is it not true ? Forks left and right. Atp they might overtake linux forks
Yea bot friend, to the extent of linux forks 🤣
Vim/emacs users are chilling
Falling further behind is what you meant
@@gro967there are plenty of ai plugins for neovim
@@gro967 behind on what? all these AI garbage editors are not adding anything worthwhile. they're just snippets on steroids at best
@@FlanPoirot you should really try them out. Being in denial of modern technology hasn’t helped anyone in the past.
AI actually helps you more the more experienced you are, as you can not only give it precise instructions, you can also quickly realize where it’s limits are.
I use vim with GitHub copilot, so I’m not behind at all
Everyone's gangsta until OpenAI decides to make their own editor
They're too busy trying to make a smartphone
Lmao, Theo should just start an IDE ETF to diversify our investments
Haha.... Brilliant. 👍
Suddenly putting effort into learning Neovim feels like a better time investment
Always has been
Sadly not a lot of complicated software is supported in neovim
Even supermaven, its chat functionality was requested for a looomg time, no progress
Continuing to use what you know is the best. No need to learn a new tool for something as simple as writing code. Neovim isn't even more convenient than graphical editors, it's just different. In the time a neovim user takes to write his 1 use macro I can multicursor and find and replace my way around 3 different problems.
I'm so over the AI overhype in tech.
This just reinforces my decision to learn Neovim, I'm only 2 weeks in and I'm not going back.
This is the way
I still just use nvim with no AI plugins.
I like to code, and WANT to code.
If an AI codes for me, it's not fun anymore.
ok cool guy
It's fun to be competent
the only source of assistance i use is google and stack overflow. no ai stuff.
I'll pay AI to stop coding, and let me do it instead.
I feel the same, i dont feel that ai code makes it quicker, its just the bugs become more obscure and the tech debt increases faster....
Instead of 2 houra on implementing, we get a load which we have been needing to refactor for months, which noone has been able to read. Of which a singular failure in a 40 minute process will crash everything and cause the need for a reload...
I at this moment, dont like ai in programming directly, documentation and looking for similar git issues and summarizing what might be the problem from stack overflow? LOVE IT
Within the editor, it still seems silly, maybe in the future but the bugs currently are more insidious. How would u never say pull the average level of code? In training? Also feels like it encourages terrible design.
Its a hack which makes more hacks which u need more hacks... the absolute hell of in a dubugger for ai generated code the user cant understand, for a failure in model performance which doesnt throw an error... there is no error to debug, just all of ur features are shit...
I can't call this IDE, rather plain text editor +. The real IDE is something like Intellij IDEA
Well aksually....
All these new editors are cool, and all. Anyways, I switched to Emacs this year. I am not going back.
Yeah 😂
why would anyone use a closed sourced editor ( based on an open source editor ) let's go backwards please
because they cant code or just starting
The open source editor that feeds your data to Microsoft? Pass.
@@RA-xx4mz did you know github is owned by Microsoft? and did you know all apple,google,meta repos are hosted at github? get some education
@@RA-xx4mz touche, you feed your code to microsoft when you commit to github , and there are still open source forks of vscode that don't feed microsoft directly , so yeah, no need to close source it for that. ulterior motive detected
I think vscode started mitosis
Vscode is bad. Sure ive spent probably collectively a month of work learning and configuring neovim, but 30% faster now every day, a more intelligent lsp which runs on local which can take in mypy and provide better detail sounds great... microsofts python lsp is actually really good.
Vscode is just, ive never seen a dev who uses vscode use vim navigation, they dont even understand file trees, they dont have an lsp or static tyle checker (equivalent to using javascript when ur teammates are using typescript), they get lost in which files are saved, they have trouble doing virtual environments and trouble in the shelll....
Vscode is a crutch, ai gen code is more of a crutch.
I want local model, running this not api requests. And i want it to be lsp like not "generate my code"
There are no more code editor wars-VSCode massacred everyone and left nothing but limbs and viscera strewn across the battlefield. Saying "editor wars" now is like talking about "browser wars" when Chrome's sitting there alone, polishing its crown.
Just use vim
Nvim if at all
Vim is still relevant in 2024 solely because of LSPs. If VSC didn't invent LSPs, vim would've completely died 7 years ago. Being able to have the same language support as the best text editors and IDEs with no dev effort needed caused it to bounce back and gain more users than it ever had.
@@theairaccumulator7144 You mean neovim. Vim is really legacy considering that the number of modern features starting from a proper configuration/plugin manager are missing in the vim ecosystem.
Break out of Electron, then I'm interested.
Try Zed.
@@SkamanSamTyler Still too early for Zed, cool idea but a lot of missing functionality.
This sounds like the craziest of vendor lock-in.
Zed has had Supermaven support as well, Theo. Try it.
He’s done a few videos on zed, I don’t know why he left it out here. It’s my favorite by far
Zed isn’t relevant until they release a proper Windows version…
@@gro967it works on Windows just fine.
Maybe a controversial opinion, but I don't want another code editor. I like having a standard with tons of developer support and different backgrounds. Forking into separate projects partitions and limits our ability to add support and features to each IDE/code editors. It also just makes choosing an code editor hard, as you may be missing out on features other editors may implement.
Competition is good even if you dont jump boat. VSCode is trying so hard rn to beat Cursor
bro said “i’m an investor in microsoft” lol
i tried supermaven extension and it was so fucking trash. Ya its fast but i have to keep fighting with the extension to allow me to type want i want.
Why don't they contribute to Zed instead?
yeah, team up with zed a good idea, they will never make an editor to compete with zed, will be another trashy vs code fork
Because Zed has no relevance, they don’t even have a proper Windows build
Kind of conflicted on this topic. On one hand, specialized AI code editors will lead to tools that are better integrated with the code. But at the same time, it means we will have to switch from the IDEs we've already been using for years. Not to mention the paradox of choice problem. Let's see where this leads us to.
It leads to a new class of developers who depend on these tools and cannot program directly anymore, but only via natural language. Kind of how today noone programs in assembler anymore, or in machine code.
I don't think the paradox of choice is a real problem, these are competing products with very different capabilities, you cannot escape this kind of choice making when you have a market.
Hi mom I was here before Theo became a multi-billionare from alot of cool investments.
supermaven is fast but definitely a big dropoff in quality from copilot
SuperMaven wins by being also an IntelliJ extension, no need to struggle with VSC
JavaScript Frameworks | Browsers | Runtimes | Compilers | Package Managers | Now Code Editors | Wait for few days and ... JavaScript OS | JS hardware | JS Computers | JS Country | JS Earth | Sapearte JS Universe...
"I'm an investor in Microsoft" .... Is there anyone here really wondering if your "stake" in microsoft is that important?
tabnine was the og ai auto completion tool, so i'm glad the mind behind it is building a full on text editor
Tried VsCode + codeium ?
Yup, that extension is very very underrated
Codeium is dope af. For local stuff - continue is also dope, with nice UX.
Which is better, Supermaven vs Codeium
@@alok.01 for free, supermaven have faster autocomplete, but codeium have guarantees about their model used - they built it themselves, being extra cautious about licensing of code they trained on. For me I can have slower autocomplete, but more ethical :)
@@alok.01 Seems like my response got lost.
Supermaven for free have faster autocomplete, BUT, on the other hand, in my humble opinion, codeium have receipts that their models were trained 'ethically' - automotive company , Vector Informatik, uses Codeium, so that's telling :)
Supermaven? Maven is a 20ish year old build tool for Java. Ironic.
me with my little nvim config: "look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power"
It's not an IDE tho
@@Thezftwcope, vim, nvim are better IDE than most so call ed IDE. Tell me what IDE feature neovim and vim cannot do?
@@danielt8880 It can do various things, but speed in which you can integrate those missing features, like ready-to-use shortcut commands to build, push, pull, compile, devcontainers etc need more time than in editor like VSCodium
@@danielt8880 Changing a piece of code and dragging a debugger execution step to go through that code again...
@@cocoscacao6102 DRAGGING? With a MOUSE?
The best IDE will be “speech to features” with the code entirely abstracted away and the “program” visible only as interactive diagrams in 3D 😅
If this ends up being another freaking electron app 😞
quick note: vs code ain't open source unless you use vs codium
I will stick with IntelliJ😂
whats with the "7-day data retention limit" with supermaven? Does it upload code to their servers as we write it or is it opt out too?
They probably use it even if you opt out. Just like OpenAI scrap your pages even if you have robots.txt. You have to block their scrapers by IP.
@@boccobadz Then i am opting out by not using it 😄
What font does theo use. It looks so good
Best combo imo: VSCodium (VSCode without Microsoft b*llshit) + Codeium for fast completion + Continue for chat and context (with Groq or Sambanova +70b llama models)
Does Cursor update every time VS Code does or are they just locked on the version they forked?
I am getting used to zed, I am willing to put up with it even if it was meh but it's really good. I just want to go away from microsoft products
which app is he using to write???
Had the same problem with icons of Cursor and my terminal
Then I tried workflow feature in alfred to bind keys to open apps. So now I have cmd+1 for arc browser, cmd+2 for telegram messenger, cmd+3 for terminal and cmd+4 for Cursor Ide. I guess now if I change to other terminal I still get the same workflow and don't mess up with icons.
I am firm believer that AI code is making developers worse and more lazy.
You may think you are unique and you know how to use it, but that is not the norm.
We used to laugh at script kiddies, who only copied and pasted code and they thought they were developers.
Now we are bring the copy paste to the "Editor". Sorry, but no thank you.
There’s a new project (quite immature) melty and it’s already great, still buggy but very promising. I used the ai to build an array of features in a Laravel/vue app and it managed to do 90% of it correctly. Only downside is it stops working after each iteration which seems to be a bug they’re working on
Ha, I’ve been asking supermaven on their discord to build an AI editor and implement a layer on top of git that keeps track of all your code generation and completion history, so you can tell easily in code reviews, git blame, etc, what exactly was done by AI and what was not. As well as asking them for multiple cursors…. I hope they take some of my suggestions in this IDE…I will be all in.
It's probably really annoying to get comments and messages about how biased people think you are, and it's probably even more annoying to preface every video where you talk about a tool or company with the same spiel of "I'm invested here and there", but please keep doing it! It's really important to be transparent, in my opinion, and even if it's annoying please keep being transparent, keep telling us what you have your money in so we can know if your mouth is closer to your heart or to your wallet.
2:04 😶. As a guy who uses Arch BTW and Neovim BTW and shades on YavaScript BTW (I'm sorry), I feel good.
I use intellyj im sure there are better tools like vim who have undo trees and stuff like that but, i just want to maximize my output without having to worry on customization and stuff like that, i don't understand why that perspective is not allowed in programming people in the tech game are so toxic for no reason.
also vscode is super bloated so never ever am i using that one my hate for vscode is unparalleled.
Cursor and Supermavan should team up together so that they can compete more effective against Microsoft who will undoubtedly be studying and copying their features.
Kinda wish someone would just pour $12M into Emacs or an Emacs fork. Make it fast, get the whole bunch of 80% done stuff to like 100% supported, and it would actually have a brighter future than a random vscode fork.
(One can daydream.)
Taking a Microsoft product and trying to outpace Microsoft DevDiv seems like a cash grab. Get that money though.
Just got home from school and Theo just released a new vid
After chromium embedded in all browsers, sh.... Here we go again, now vscode gona embedded in all ide, stop it! Ram is not infinite !
Yeah yeah, war for the best editor with the best plugin system making all work that you want. Oh wait. Emacs exists!
Yes, Supermaven is fast... at delivering mediocre or bad code, that you then have to fix pretty often. Not for me.
You introduced me to cursor…I don’t even know how I was coding before…I instructed it to improve the ui pages login & signup for my flutter app…as well as pagination for my flutter app using strapi rest api….thank you so much 🎉🎉🎉
Now I can’t use vs code 😢😢
try payload instead of strapi
JS devs like reinventing stuff, have they heard about actual IDEs like intelij?
I remember my Grandfather had to buy a new hammer and saw at least twice a year beacuse there was always a new ones that were new and improved and his previous hammer and saw were now crap.
5 years down the line what code data they will have, to train the model when 50% of code will be ai generated already.
It will worsen the code overall in all the repos down the line.
"All code is garbage." - TechLead
This is good, because Jetbrains can steal any novel ideas these products invent and implement them better.
I have the wrong job... 12 Million for an editor with an API to OpenAI... wow
I don’t care about the AI features. I just want it to be performant and not chromium based.
if supermaven has a free plan, or free local AI, then i'm in! Otherwise, idrc
Cursor is “just” a fork of Continue, why does this keep getting ignored
Might be voice activated soon 😅
True! If you think about it, that would actually be kinda cool. You could keep your concentration on the code base and just talk to the AI without all the extra typing to generate prompts. Your conversation could yield code that the AI drops in with your verbal consent. It could come to resemble what people hoped "pair programming" would be but actually good. As the devops space moves from IDEs to CDEs, AIs as members of project teams seems inevitable IMO.
God damnit, I thought the frontend frameworks war was the worst we could get
So nice they make IDE as well, i'm sure it will be better than cursor
You are sleeping on Zed, it does the same inline assist as Cursor + supermaven.
Cursor is pretty sweet for writing sql queries that aren’t straight forward.
Just use supermaven inside cursor.? whats the problem, you can disable cursor tab
"None of that makes any sense to me" - yet dude is here posting an opinion...
Why not train the AI to use Vim instead of building something new?
I'm leaning into Helix hard. No built-in AI, its great.
It would be top comedy if supermaven forks from vscode as well
What's the name of the app/website on which Theo wrote comparisons?
your videos are so much better now that you're not a shill for vercel
I don’t get the point of preferring fast over less accurate code.
all of this could have been avoided if vscode had a better extension api
Wait, how do we undo properly in Cursor? Mine is a mess!
I think I'll wait for SuperCursorVimCode
can u talk about chat gpt moving from nextjs to remix
why build tools when they want to remove engineers 😹😹
I'm just going to be basic and stick with VS Code...
Should talk about Jetbrains AI at some point
Are they also going to fork VS Code or go another route?
For me important part of current Supermaven is it also works with Zed and JetBrains, not only VSCode and vim.
As zed is only available on Mac, it is not interesting for most people. It will not be relevant before they release a proper Windows version
@@gro967 Mac and Linux.
Cursor was clever buying Copilot for $10/month/user and selling for $20/month/user but limited to make people pay even more. The problem is Cursor AI is super slow, while creating the exact same responses (because it's the same, just proxied).
I literally though that was gonna be a Java IDE
How do you invest in super maven and cursor??
Every day we stray further from god (vim)
I wish intellij editors AI would be as good as supermaven and cursor DX
They will integrate them later on
Theo your videos are looking a bit dark
anyone rememnbers kite? they where ahead of their time
Cursor is a fork of vscodium, not vs code
Somehow I don't think you're Zed investor... They're have AI features, are offering Claude 3.5 Sonnet for free and has Supermaven Tab Completion and I've never heard you talk about beyond the video where you found Zed for the first time.
If you miss Supermaven in Cursor, you can still use it in Cursor. Cursor even offers it when you install Cursor and want to import your extensions. They detect Supermaven and let you choose between Cursor Tab and Supermaven.
Not sure how good it is together with Cursor tho
If it was my decision, I woud be making VS code more amenable to AI extensions. I guess this might mean almost rebuilding from scratch but if you want to stay relavent you have to adapt. It's a jungle out there.
I would strongly encourage those who have not tried Cursor to give it a go. It will completely change the way you build software.
pro tip: install supermaven in cursor
I’m curious what Stackblitz will present at the ViteConf on Oct 3rd. My wish for X-mas: A Chromium like device from Arc, and a browser based IDE like Stackblitz Codeflow with AI! Then I can finally replace my MacBook Pro ;-)