Dungeons and Dragons Players by Tier
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2019
- Here are some Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition player tips, to figure out just how good of a D&D player you are. Whether you're playing Dungeons and Dragons 5e, Starfinder, Warhammer or something else, this should serve as a guide to becoming an extraordinary player.
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How would I be able to join a campaign you are playing or hosting? I love your videos, and with my current games not really being into rping their characters, itb would be refreashing to play with someone who does. Thank you sir.
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little mistake in the title cards: "learning h ow to play".
If you just show up to the sessions consistently you're god tier to me
if you show up to the sessions constantly and you don't know the rules, you need to be constanly reminded what you should roll, you don't pay attention and you try to be over the top of everyone you are a tier 0 player. I'm talking about personal experience, i have 3 of 5 players that have been doing this for at least 20 sessions and i really don't know what to do. Stop playing with them probably. LOL
You may need to pick your standards up from the floor sir.
Don't hate this post. Sometimes that struggle is real
That's the #1
Everything else can be winged from there
@@thejamaicanempire3561 sometimes, the bar just stays in the ground and nobody ever raises it.
It took me an hour to design my face in skyrim.
I then wore a closed faced helm for the next 300 hours, because roleplaying.
Toggle helmet on/off god tier addon.
Closed face helms in Skyrim don't make sense to me. Have you ever shouted inside of a closed helmet? It's deafening! Seriously hurts. Now imagine a fus ro dah inside a helmet.
@@stranger6822 I now can't help but imagine the dragonborn found dead after completely blowing their head off trying to shout wearing a closed helm.
I do the same but then spend my whole time (after getting it) wearing Krosis and a hood. XD
@@stranger6822 new mod causing shouts to damage you while wearing a closed helm incoming
My players were average to good at best except one OUTSTANDING guy.
I was doing a gritty world war style campaign and after losing his whole team in his backstory he decided to make his character depressed and if he rolled bad in the morning he'd act accordingly, being a little more distant on purpose. One day there was a particularly meaningless fight and he challenged an enemy to a 1v1 to the death to prove his faction had honor. When he was about to die another player took away the enemies honorable victory, sniping the enemy, and protected her friend. After this dishonor he walked off into the woods and they hear a single gunshot. He straight up killed his own PC because he was so devastated. That death gave every other PC a reason to truly care about the war and drive the motivation from then on. And that was my FIRST ever PC death as a new DM.
He later told me his character made 3 nat 1 "depression" rolls in a row and on top of watching this enemy die in a fair fight he technically won it sent his character into a downward spiral in the span of a few moments. He had even over heard me talking about his character reaching level 20 and how I had ideas of how he could contribute end game, and even knowing I didn't want to kill his amazing character, he killed himself for the role play. Everyone loved his character including himself but he knew what he had done and stuck to it. Despite losing one of his favorite PCs he'd ever made he foresaw how his death would highlight the themes of the campaign and drive a knife into the hearts of everyone at the table. Mad fucking respect.
Now that's a good roleplayer. He saw past the want for his character to have a great time and do cool things and saw the potential to make a good story. Mad respect, indeed
I just saluted and screamed for depressed PC, that's story that the DM can never make up. Absolute god tier player.
That is an awesome player, one who can actually play a depressed character well without putting in to much edge. Also, you should post the story and maybe flesh it out a little more on r/dnd greentext on reddit
... Make sure that dude is ok. The player.
@@F2t0ny We had a talk with everyone afterwards about it, some took it better than others. The person who took the kill wasn't happy to be blamed for a suicide but we worked past it
Bold of you to assume i dont just binge watch D&D content without actual playing a character
Lmao
I feel called out.
I think it’s hilarious that that is an actual group of people. 😂😂😂
I made it to episode 60 of Critical Role before actually playing.
The Alchemist King I’m in this comment and I don’t like it*
Tier -1: Demanding new players learn the ins and outs of the game in the first 20 minutes of their first session and getting mad when they dont immediately come out of their shell with a character voice and great roleplay.
Ima play my first game next week...... i made my character with my freind whos the DM and i hadent met the pepole i was guna be playing with........ there super serious roleplayers and do voices........ my dude is a monk called cuck norris...................fuck
@@AmisThysia thats actualy a good idea i mean in all honesty im not takeing it hugely serious i mean my goal for the character is to suplex a dragon but i might do something like that thanks muchly
I want to like but its at 420
@@glynndavies2904 That's amazing!
Flex Kuntsmash You should like a fucking degenerate for dogging on this lad for wanting to do something stupidly fun for his first character. You’re either trolling or have forgotten that dnd at its core is a game about slapping around monsters and having fun with your friends.
Great players also mentor other players and accept constructive criticism from others.
I was thinking this as well. I like to think that after 35+ years of playing, it's part of my job as a player to help the newbs along so they can better enjoy the game. When everyone is involved and having fun, it makes the whole experience better :)
Maybe, but my problem is that a lot of the DM's I play under are far less experienced than I am at it, and I have trouble NOT trying to pull them aside and constantly explain to them things like "don't gloat at players and tell them you saved their asses", "Don't make encounters a series of save-or-suck marathon", and "Your invulnerable tag-along character should NOT be the main character or center of attention at all times." and other such nuggets that crawl under my skin while trying to let someone else DM.
It's not just mentoring. It's mentoring without taking over. Finding the balance that allows the new character to make their own mistakes and learn and grow and enjoy playing the game while keeping them aware of what they can and can't do, understanding how that new player wants to play their character and help them make that as real as the game mechanics allow.
I must say as well that I find the presence of an experienced and good player at the table automatically inspire others into roleplaying more. When they hear for example their newly aquired ally (take this as the good player at the table) engage them in in-character conversation, it makes the barrier to roleplay and to dive into your own character so much lower.
@@GuardianCitadel It seems like your DM still wants to play their character. They're getting used to impartiality, so I suggest maintaining the feedback on what's good attitude and what's.. not
"Good players accept their death"
Me, died 3 times in one campaign and created different characters each time: "Not sure I'd consider myself to be a good player."
Dude stop dying
lol I once went on a seven character dieing streak until it broke
You should quit selecting bards.
I don't see how that's a bad thing?
@@taserrr it's a joke about how he "refuses to die"
I kicked a player out of my campaign only once in my life.
They were backseat DM-ING and complaining about how another character, who was far more fleshed out than theirs and had really good stats, was too OP.
I would have listened to the complaints, but the other character was fully homebrew and I looked over the character creation for them.
They had almost no skills and proficiencies, but were a great generalist.
I was running a campaign in FFG Star Wars game a few years back, and that was the one and only time I've had to kick a player from the group. He was one of those that always had to be the center of attention. When another player who was running a tactician droid reprogrammed to be peaceful would try to have a conversation with an NPC, this guy would constantly interrupt with something like "Shut up, droid" and take over the conversation, or just straight up shoot the NPC for no reason. Frequently interrupted dialogue to try and make some grand speech about stuff hardly related to the game at all, and usually just about himself.
My only regret is not kicking him out sooner, as he ended up driving away another player who I quite liked
@@cockoroach im am so so so so so so so so so SO late but dont be friends with them
Good tier: Never attacks the other players
God tier: Actually tries to engage with the campaign at all
Sinbad (Rogue): "Does pick-pocketing count as an attack?"
Hellspawn teir: taking mostly evil actions when their alignment is CG
It depends on the setting and players. I've been in an evil campaign and some of the best role playing came out of PvP encounters. The characters all have reasons (either money or smart enough to understand they need the other characters' skills) to stay in the group, but it doesn't mean they won't try to kill each other if provoked. The campaign has lasted several years (with a couple breaks) and more than ten levels with only 3 character changes.
Dark Cyan But PvP can be really good under the right circumstances. I remember recently in a campaign we had a player who in character was awful despite his good alignment (threatening to attack shop keepers to try to get discounts, stealing a noble’s family heirloom and killing their prized bird even though they’d done nothing wrong and only doing it as a favour to get a discount on a magic item that he eventually chose not to buy and not telling other players vital information in combat intentionally). But what ended it was when he tried to pickpocket from a player that was an undercover assassin (there was a big subplot of these 2 rivalling assassin guilds) and later that night killed him in his sleep before hiding him in some bushes
@@temporaryhalfdecentname8452 Oh, did he write good on his char sheet. That's the way to do it. Pro gamer.
Good players bring snacks
Damn right they do
DMs and players bring food those who don’t are chaotic stupid 50% of the time
I used to bring snacks and DM. It ended up being that I was the only one who did it. So I stopped. Later someone complained about there being no snacks and I explained my point. I DM, make the story & bring snacks. I do enough by spending my time to DM and make the story.
I think the final straw was when I went to get some snacks, discovered it was all gone, then got taunted that I should have eaten some sooner.
Good players bring cocaine and hookers
My Friend Group: Everyone brings food, is on time and schedules ahead of time, 6-8 hour sessions, Actively roleplays as their character
Reading Comments: ooooh no
Jeremy Buban I know right!
Could i join your group 😂 mines not the greatest and its kinda small
I used to belong to a group like this. Although I've played with other groups, I haven't had a group like that in 20+ years, and not from a lack of trying lol.
I have 3 TTRP groups. One is at a constant time and have a constant core groupe but some flakes. Another group has 4 players but only 2 (including me) actually show up and the others always have something else scheduled for that day. The third group is constant and usually has most people there except one or two are usually out each session. I love all of these groups but flakes are then bane of them.
@@UltimusMagus its hard, and I feel you, it has been ten years for me, but you just gotta keep trying
The dm adding to the backstory of a PC suddenly without prior discussion is a very fine line that requires strong trust and talk that letting the dm run wild with the PC. Something like Matt mercer and talisen jaffe with Molly or even percy is a special kind of relationship and not everyone is gonna have that at first of course.
Truth, my first campaign I inadvertently created a very disruptive PC. Through a series of devastating events and my PC being forced to fight his friends or throw away his morals lead him to killing himself. My DM simply leaned over the table and asked me for my character sheet because it was "his" now.
What he did with my PC was amazing and he elevated him to a level I never could have. He took my dragonborn hermit druid who hated necromancy being forced to work for a necromancer (super morally grey campaign my first DM was AMAZING) who was logistically to the game a stick in the mud and turned him into the avatar of the Phoenix given rebirth by his God (too long ago I forget who) to save his friends in the end and that weird foulmouthed tiefling that joined the party later (2nd PC). We never discussed it he took my character that I loved but felt I had to give up and gave him the send off he deserved. I got to see my boy Moral Tolak go through hell and back after losing him and it was spectacular.
That being said any DM doing it has to be damn talented. That could have felt in the moment like a flop or a cop out but how it happened was just insane.
I strongly agree. A character's backstory is the players' prerogative, the DM doesn't get to decide they have a sister the player never mentioned, it can be very disruptive for roleplaying. A good DM that feels a character needs fleshing out will "suggest" backstory. He'll say something like "and it's someone you recognize from your past life, who is it, your sister, an old friend...?" Or something to that effect. It accomplishes exactly the same thing, but lets the player keep control of the backstory of their character. A DM that decided to make up backstory for my character without talking to me about it first is a DM I'd never play a second campaign with.
I've taken to (and had great success with) telling DMs exactly what parts of my backstory I'm leaving less developed on purpose for if they want to expand on it themselves.
I agree - but anything the player already “gives” the DM is fair game. In his example, if the player had part of his story “my sister died when I was young and it forever changed his outlook on life.” But then the DM wants to take that and make her an undead villain that’d be cool. I’m down for that but it’s working within the confines of the players established back story
@@Katio888 Agreed 100%.
"guys, thats disrup- *Ads starts playing* oh the irony xD
Lol.
Skip to the end then hit restart. There will be no ads then
If you have fun playing.
If players have fun playing with you.
And if runners enjoy running you.
Than your a really good player. It's that simple in my opinion.
Best comment i have read in a long time.
Best comment i have read in a long time.
Being a team player really helps. I always want the last character to be made so everyone can get what they want and I can fill in whatever bases still need to be covered. There are so many great characters classes to play that you really can't go wrong.
@@aaroncoffman88 in some cases I'd agree and say that's important but not alway. That depends on the runner and the style of game he's running. A team player and a well balanced party in serious campaign like curse of strahd, yes it's important. But if it's a semi serious campaign, not so much. Plus there's just something fun about the ridiculous parties of all monks or something stupid like that. Campaign were player are constantly pulling trick and shenanigans against each other are really can be extremely fun too.
@@jbee02 Too true. I remember one campaign in the TMNT r.p.g. system we had 3'5 mutant bat who was obsessed with explosive devices especially grenades. Boom-Bat was hilariously played. Didn't fit into any role besides comedy relief but boy was he fun.
Ability Check: You are preparing to perform a certain action using your ability.
Ability Saving Throw: Something unexpected just happened to you.
Example: There is a large hole in the floor. You use an Ability Check to hop over it if you spotted it. You use an Ability Saving Throw to avoid falling into it if you didn't spot it.
Hope that helps.
ty
I understood this early as a player. What I didn't realize until later is that saving throws and ability checks have different modifiers and are listed in different sections of your character sheet, both separate from your regular skill + modifier boxes.
Just throwing that out there in case any other new players didn't know either!
You also may just use your Passive Perception to see if you spotted it, instead of rolling for that check.
"They know how to accept character death."
To add to that, they know when it's time to say goodbye to a beloved character, even if the character might survive if they didn't off them.
For example, I was playing a half-elf druid named Carric that had knowledge that would lead to worldwide destruction if it got out. When the BBEG tried to take the knowledge from him, Carric put his scimitar through his own chest to keep it from the BBEG.
I didn't want to kill that character, but it was what Carric would've done to keep that knowledge safe.
If only he had known that Modify Memory was a spell. Ah well.
One of my favorite character moments in a session: a group of bandits had taken up residence on a bridge and charged travelers a steep toll. Our rogue wanted to start a fight, but our monk (who knew very little about the outside world) did not wish for violence, and paid the toll on behalf of the party. Later on, the two got into an argument about it (in character of course) - the rogue was angry because she took a massive blow to her pride, and the monk argued he has already seen enough bloodshed since our journey began. They were on bad terms for the rest our errand to the city.
Fast forward to after that sidequest, we have to make a return trip and the city guard gave us permission to dispatch these bandits if they were still there. We cleaned their clocks, and it came to a point where the monk and rogue were ganging up on the bandit leader. The rogue told the leader that she did this to regain her honor.
THIS is where the monk had the epiphany - he may not understand thievery and ne'er-do-wells, but he DID understand the value of honor that people hold as individuals. By the end of it, they hugged it out, we joked, we laughed.
...all while the bodies of about 30 or so band corpses lay eviscerated across the bridge.
What a hardcore way to bond!
Pinnacle DnD. Good going yall!
One of the hardest characters of mine to play was a dark depressed barbarian. He had lost everything he loved time and time again. He was cold and heartless and would do anything to achieve his goals. He doesn't care about anyone, and just wants the money for a quest. Anyways, we had a SUUUPER pacifist monk (doesn't fit my violent nature) and he was also my great friend. Anyways, we were on a quest searching for bandits stealing carts. Our reward was a hefty 1000k gold for a fairly low level group, and our monk decided to robinhood and give it all to the town. We disagreed. Heavily. We then got in a very one sided fight with an illusionist, we attacked him, nearly killing him, but stopped when we saw he wasn't fighting back. We interoagted him, but be did some weird illusion magic , tped away, and screamed we are terrorists. Most of the party started chasing him, and attacking him. Then, there was the monk, who ran faster than us, who got in our way and refused to budge. He even took a fireball straight to the face at lvl3 from the wizard trying to negotiate. Some time goes by and loads of arguing. I wanted to say just let him go, but I was tied with playing my character right. It was so incredibly hard because he was my friend, but we ended in PC v PC. It was not easy but my PC would NEVER let someone who jeopardized the mission go. We resolved it later that night, but I hated it so much
I was apart of a campaign that my husband was DMing, and one of the other players was just purposefully destroying the side quests, so that we could get to the main quest quicker. So annoying.
Laura
I love side quests especially when they add value to the story or game or contribute to character growth.
Laura Leyshon I’m sorry to hear that, Laura.
So ironic, sidequests are so damn useful even just mechanically. Maybe it's just a gamer thing but don't you wanna explore and get every advantage?
Unofficial Hotel
*Video starts playing while I'm not looking at the screen*
"Gay Meats"
What kind of advertisement is this?
oooh Game Eats
Niche advertising.
G A Y M E A T S
Omg that got me 😂😂😂
A little something salty, a little something sweet.
Same
The guy who stares at his phone all session playing some mindless clicker game and only looks up briefly when it's his turn is my absolute, 100% most-despised player type.
'that's disruptive', commercial plays hahaha
*laughs in Ublock Origins*
Adaptability is key.
The player that complains about "not enough roleplaying in the campaign" and then doesn't initiate any roleplaying with NPC's, never talks to the other PC's, and have a full page of written background but never brings any of that to the game, deserves it's own tier.
I have seen enough D&D horror stories start with "The DM/Player had been playing for 10 years..." to know better than to assume just because you have sat at a table and rolled dice for 10 years does not mean you are good at PLAYING D&D, lol.
I do not pout. I was just salty when my character was paralysed for almost every round of combat at my birthday party. ONE ACTION.
As a DM, I almost never paralyze/stun players in combat. I know how much that sucks.
"Welp, I'm paralyzed... gonna take a shower and hope you finish the combat until then".
Please, DM's, if you have to use crowd control, do other stuff. Root them, cripple them, slow them, disarm them, just don't have players skip their turn.
@@davidirimia6463 I think that's really awesome. Players check out real quick when their character is paralyzed or held or running in the opposite direction. One round isn't a big deal, but if it's at the beginning of combat and there isn't much chance of recovering, out comes the cell phone.
I was paralyzed for a full out of game hour and got annoyed already.
*O* *O* *F*
I once got mind controlled in a climactic battle and was still mind controlled for almost 2 hours downed 2 of my party members it was so bad
30 minutes to make a character... shiiiiiiiiiiiiiitt... i take an hour at least- not counting gear! lol
Hero Lab makes it amazing
As a fairly veteran DM and Player, the time it takes to develop a character really comes down to how invested I am expecting to be in that character. For throw away characters, for say one-shots and as NPCs when I am behind the screen, I can come up with a complete build for most classes in a few minutes, however, if I plan to play the character, or the NPC is expected to be important to the story arc, or make reoccurring appearances, they can take quite a bit of time, but nothing remotely close to when I am designing the BBEG for a campaign chapter, because those can take weeks at times.
Keeping in mind the play-span the character is expected to exist, is a huge stepping stone to determining how much time to invest in it's creation.
Awesome, I rolled stats for my most recent character then spent three days thinking of what class, race, and background to choose. I then spend about three hours making notes that the DM later approved. Lots of material for him to work with. In the end about six hours over a week and I fully expect him to die with in the fist three sessions.
It helps to have a few characters laying around to act as templates. Even if you have to reroll stats and give it a new race/name, you have something to work with in no time with no deliberation, especially if it's just a level 1.
As a DM, I often like to pre-vet certain NPC characters that I intend to run as rivals or reocurring opponents by using them as a character in a game I'm not running. It's usually the build/archetype I'm testing, so the stats and race are mutable enough to be thrown into any campaign. Sometimes the DM is nice enough to let me dry-run a party-friendly NE YT pureblood divine soul sorcerer, but it could just as easily be subbed for a tiefling or half-elf and the stat rolls are mostly irrelevant. It helps having a bunch of premade 'hollow' archetypes that just need 'game legal' stats & any minor detail tweaks.
The virgin critical role fan // The chad guy-who’s-been-building-the-same-rogue-since-grade-seven
WTF is wrong with Chad?
Andrew Semisch 👏
I use to play with a chad like this except he always play the same half-elf paladin
@@mistermoneyman300 That's a bit more respectable.
Mine was a Blue Dragonborn Paladin of the Raven Queen. Same character for years.
"Why would my character do that? He'd just take the gold and retire"
"Fair enough, so what's your replacement character? One that would actually play D&D with us.
Dammit, I am totally disruptive, thanks for the heads up!
Takes a big man to recognize it
Dude you don’t know how much it means to own up to that
Its surprising how quickly people's mental maths gets better after just a few sessions; being able to add up a fireball in a few seconds really picks up the pace
I often advocate RPG's to any parent who asks me about their child struggling in math classes past elementary school. It's one of the easiest ways to turn math into a game... ;o)
And you take *pauses* the intergral of 2x dx between 1 and 3 points of damage!!
Joking aside that is a really good idea for speeding up basic maths
@@alexanderrogers4557, yeah... kinda sucked growing up in the "Satanic Panic" 80's... Where I couldn't exactly publicly admit to D&D... at least, not around here.
BUT all those studies they've done about learning processes, and the evidence is near overwhelming that visual aids, and games or contests make for quicker students. People just naturally engage in the substance you want to teach when they "have skin invested in the game".
RPG's provide for ALL of that, and plenty of number-crunchy practice.
...I wonder why the education system (or some faction of it) hasn't started picking up on that. It doesn't even have to be D&D either (specifically)... SO "Theme" is not an excuse. ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 my teacher used to use songs to help students learn multiplication 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32 36 40 44 48 this beat is so tight to learn this no time will it take something like that.
@@CARLOSMIGUEL-sm8yu Nah... My school had a big thing for silly looking plastic fruits, and flash-cards... and games with those flash cards... bored me to DEATH!!!
The flash card game was the WORST... Flash card is held up in front of kids (in pairs) and there's a math problem on it. The first to answer correctly gets a piece of candy, and the other sits back down... and the teacher just moves on.
I've played D&D since I was ten (10)... SO with the rapid-fire repetition of dice counting, multiplication became little or no problem... I just did enough number-crunching to realize they were basically the same thing... Subtraction was only going "the other way"... AND the same with Division. I could SEE where the numbers came from and what they meant.
SO it wasn't really ever that I was "bad" at maths... I was hell on wheels for spitting out answers.
0, 1, 4,9,16, 25,36,49, 64, 81, 100, 121, 169, 196, 225, 256, 289,324,361,400...
How's this? Even know what they are? (hint, the REAL trick is I can do it with my fingers) ;o)
Good players: don’t pout over character death
Taliesin: I have 10 characters ready just in case
Spoiler Warning:
I'm sure after almost dying multiple times a few sessions into playing Clay that he thought it would be a good idea lol. I don't know if you watch Talks Machina at all, but he actually didn't have a character ready to go after Molly's death, and he basically had to make Clay in 1-2 days.
My favorite experience in a campaign I played in was when I was playing as a meek human Druid who was afraid of individuals significantly larger than her. This was interesting when the party boarded a boat and one of the NPCs aboard the boat was a large half orc. She had just gotten her wild shape and upon seeing that she quickly *poofed* into a wolf. Now this wasn’t my favorite part. My favorite part was something another PC did. He turned looked at my character looked back at the half orc and said “you aren’t allergic to dogs right? Cause I don’t think she’s coming back any time soon” I died laughing the other players died laughing and the DM granted inspiration for one of the best lines all night
Shout outs to all my fellow power gaming murder hobos with zero rp or voice acting skills
Not my bag, but props for knowing who you are
Anyone making rp and voice acting skills a requirement belongs in a tier to himself.
Murder hobo yes the rest of that no
Power Gamer) yes
The rest) no
T-Pose Sorcerer that blows everything up with Fireball
If you are a new player learn your character, and enjoy. Everyone starts out somewhere
Yes, above all enjo the game.
@@Reptrilian thank you
Yes. I DM'd some newbies not too long ago, and the only time they looked at the PHB was while we were playing. I told them that they didnt know every rule in the book, just the ones that have to do with your class; start there. thats all. They still never cracked a book except during a game. sigh.
@@Briansgate I went over their characters with them to help them understand, they mainly use the PHB for spells now and the odd trait now. Happened more during the first session.
@@robertconner5927 aside from Wizard because all the spells. I find making "pokemon cards" of their spells and putting them in a binder with their character sheet helps new players a lot. Help them plot a character up till level 10 or so and update later. Have all relevant info immediately available so they can enjoy more and slow down progress less.
I think the fact that Mollymauk and Percy are so fleshed out with minimal voice change from Talesin proves that having a funny character voice doesn't automatically=good. character.
And again with caduceus
As a DM myself I have 1 crucial rule that must be followed above all others. Rule #1. Have fun
Hey man as long as I can play a pugilist (homebrew class) I don’t mind at all!
Yes. Go wild, guiding the fletchlings until theyve grown enough to even challange a dragon!
I have that same rule, but mine is a little different: Everyone Should Have Fun.
"brainstorm in the shower and improv at the table DM" -me
This is a great video. Really solid advice. And Dave is awesome.
Dave may infact be a cool guy, but is the advice solid? Really? He seems to often have advise that is opposite of yours.
I think this is a cabal of sellout/evil DM's pooling their powers for clickbait assistance.
It's a trap. You guys all work together.
I have had a DM make a sudden change to my backstory like in your example. While i rolled with it during the game i had to have a conversation with the DM afterward, basically asking him to never change my backstory again without consulting me first.
No offense but as the DM you control every aspect of the world, every npc, monster, map, politics etc.
I "only" have my backstory, don't fuck with my backstory without my input.
Maybe i am alone in thinking this but it really bothered me when the DM did that without even asking me.
As a guy who has run some games before, my position would be this; The DM gets to control the world and the npcs in it... But that's not actually a privilege - it's a job. An arduous, and at many times thankless one. A common misconception is that the DM is there to make it fun for the players to play D&D, but that is not the whole story - It has to be a two way street my guy. The ten or twenty or fifty hours of prep your DM put in to get the game off the ground carries with it some level of obligation for you to buy in to what he's trying to do.
When your DM made a choice to specifically hook you into the game by changing your backstory he was throwing you a line to put you in the spotlight, not trying to take something from you. If you didn't like it, that's unfortunate, I'm glad you talked it out after the session - But just try to keep his position in mind too, you know what I mean?
*THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMMENTING ON THIS*
That is the worst a DM can do when I think of playing with people I don't feel 101% safe with.
@@SecondReversal He could have actually used something from his original backstory to try and get him involved rather than changing it without consent. Bad dm period.
@@zena2239 You know until you have a player with no backstory or no connections to the wider world or anything you as a DM can use to hook the player. Some people play a murder hobo, not in the game but in backstory too. "All my family is dead, my village exiled me for no reason. I have no one I care about. I am a walking blank slate that murders goblins for gold." - Far to many rogues I have DMed for.
@@SecondReversal partially agree with your point as an experienced (and occasionally control freak) dm. But I think the problem here is a lack of consent. Usually it takes around 2 hours of one-on-one when we make a character from the scartch with one of my players. If they don't have a concept I play 20 questions with them, slowly fleshing them out. I too offer suggestions many times to their backstories, like "would you mind having a little brother whos..." or "is it ok if that ex of yours is in fact a...." but they have every right to refuse these.
Adding insult to injury is that s/he changed midgame, essentially forcing the player to retcon some of their roleplaying, which I, -if I want to keep a legit world - consider a big no-no.
Me, a cultured power gamer:
-Make a character concept/background
-Find the most optimal way to play the concept
-?????
-Profit
Learning H OW to play
Learning H ow to type
H owlbear, instructional owlbear.
@@panda93247it's a joke, like OW that hurt.
Good P layers
@@andrewknorpp9415 is it though
I will say a lot of times a player simply reflects back what a DM is putting out. So a combative, argumentative, or petty DM can provoke their players to behave in a similar fashion.
Actually, you should do one of these for DM'ing.
KevlarIlluminati Whole-heartedly agree. A bad dm cannot inspire the higher level of play from people who haven’t been there before, and the players who have won’t stick around to show the others when the dm makes it pointless.
Yep totally agree, because I have been mad over a character death, and I will admit I pouted a little, mainly because the DM hadn't done any homework into the rules. Knew the module, knew the rules. A failed check stops you from moving, a check failed by five or more equals a fall. I actually passed the modules check by 1. The dm, thinking the best way to make the module harder was to up the check by five points, making me fail it by 4, still resulted in instant death. Was the last time I played with that dm, mainly since after rolling a new pc, that one was killed to save her SO who was also playing.
@@thrashjf83 That's f#*^ed up!! DMs like that scare people away from playing.
@@thrashjf83 As a DM I find DMs who don't care about player death shocking. After I killed my first PC while DMing my whole group was shocked, we had been playing for over a year without any dealths. I constantly thought about what I did wrong, or what I could of done to save the PC. However the player fully understood why his character died and moved on. I think a good rule of thumb is when a player undersands why they died and is okay with it, the death was okay and wasn't the DMs fault. TBH that's my greatest fear as a DM is me killing a character unfairly.
@@jflyer4522 Yeah I guess the death wasn't what angered me, it was how my pc died. We were playing forge of fury, 3.5, which is what the dm and her SO wanted to play. I rolled a 15 -4 for my armor penalty, got an 11 to cross that bridge. Now if you know the module, the bridge is a bridge made from three ropes, it was described as a narrow rope bridge.
I was like, okay so she has some variation where the bridge is easier so I can run across it I guess. So off I went, she then told me to make a ref check or fall. I was like, what okay. Failed it, died. If you know the module, the check is dc 8 to move 1/4th the way across the bridge.
So I rolled a ranger, we ended up fighting the ogre, it rolled a crit and she decided post hit who it hit, she picked my almost dead ranger over her hubs the fighter.
I still won't play with them if she gms.
I know a few people that fit in basically every single tier at the same time
30 minute for a character, damn?
Had my first session as DM my friends, for all of us it was the first round of DnD and it took about 5 hours to create characters XD
xFactions7 it's easier when everyone know what belongs where on the character sheet
Also depends on the edition. I can throw a good character together shortly in 5e. However 3.5 I take a long time
Saying you should accept every character death is wrong. There are unjust deaths, deaths that don't add to the story, deaths that just feel bad.
There's a difference between a character dying because they sacrificed themselves to save the party from a dragon, and death because you failed a swim check.
A hard rule within our group is that a single check failed check will never lead to death unless the character in question was acting stupid (like, touching the obvious Orb of Disentegration stupid). If death is on the line, multiple failed checks are needed for instant death, with the in between usually beeing various stages of "maimed, beaten, bruised, but alive."
Combat death is an obvious exception, but in those cases it is down to the party recognicing when things are going sour.
@@TheTriforceDragon That sounds pretty solid :P
I disagree. Character deaths to add to the story.
They add a sense of suspension and fright, which is important in epic tales. Knowing that the world can kill you, is what makes it seem brave when you stand up to the world. I hate when a GM tries to "save my character" because he thinks the circumstances are unfair. They may be unfair. I may be a little heartbroken that my character died. But my character was a brave person trying to defy the odds. My character deserves to die, rather than survive because the universe wants it so. Because then all of the accomplishments doesn't feel like accomplishments anymore. How can I then trust my GM didn't just let my character succeed all those times because they wanted to.
Let my character die a hero. A humble, unknown, good for nothing hero, so I can at least remember them that way.
It's like yesterday I saw a horror movie with my girlfriend and in the middle of the movie, she spoiled that noone would die. That removed a lot of suspension from me and a lot of really scary parts of the movie wasn't really scary, because I knew they would all survive. So a lack os suspence can definitely detract from a story.
@@sanderhansen7036 no one is arguing that PCs should never die. The argument is about PC deaths that really contribute to the campaign story vs. 1-bad-roll deaths.
'You fail the dex save, you fall into the trap door and take 100 damage, you're dead. Try again.' What fun is that?
Most players get attached to their characters, so if death happens they would at least want it to be meaningful. However, if players see they could die any time no matter how smart they try to play, it will inevitably lead to a detachment from any subsequent characters they roll up.
Players want to play heroes, not cannon-fodder.
@@twogruden9943 The fun is in knowing that even mundane tasks are dangerous. That this is a world that can kill you even by small chances
6:50 "you're being a disruptive player" Ad immediately starts
Joining my first ever D&D campaign in about 4 months! I’m so excited and I’m learning as much as I can before hand from both my dm and your videos. You gave a lot of great pointers on what I should and shouldn’t do, as well as what to keep in mind during the campaign, thank you so much!
"by third session" wild man, wild.
Literally. I've been playing my lil barbarian for just under two months and still getting used to it. 😅 I think it's a bit much to assume that people will have only the time to learn about mechanics rather than other things...
Yeah, i had like 3 sessions. But we mostly play one Shots since we cant meet up so often, i played the pregenerated Wizard of the Starter Edition and also tried a Kind of rogue/recon in my next session. I dont know how fast someone is supposed to understand every effect their character has, especially when you just start enjoying the game
We have been doing a campaign for about 8 months and I’m still learning cleric stuff
@@kmmmm150 It took me six sessions to figure out how spell reactions and the spell Shield works. I've also learned the hard way dragons aren't that talkative, making my ability to speak Draconic far less exciting./clumsy not shy but uncharismatic high elf wizard
He means the basics. spells and special class features are something that can take longer as you may have missed it when reading, even multiple times. But if you don't know what the hell your base stats do for your melee weapon or what AC is actually good for by the third session. Then you should probably stop playing.
Had a player like that and not only was he illiterate. He would sometimes come to a session grumpy for no reason and apply that to his character, sometimes sabotaging his teammates and getting them downed or causing a mission to fail. Being the opposite of his alignment, not that his character had any background or personality in the first place.
He almost ruined the entire campaign until the Demi-God of Mountains kills him, within story reasoning of course. The party has a siege mission with a Goddess of Water and Demi-God of Mountains. The Goddess is more benevolent and kind but the Demi-God is whimsical and hot blooded. Long story short, the Demi-God catches him trying to pull another trick and just holds him up with one hand and chokes him to full death and throws him over and across a mountain. If the party failed their missions, they would roughly have a +20% chance of dying for each failed mission as the enemy side had a evil God and Demi-God too.
Not sure if it was the right thing to do as a DM but it sure did save the campaign.
who else finds it annoying when people don't try to learn how the character sheet works? i have to deal with that every week
i feel you bro, is not that hard....
I try... but damn it's hard. It's been 1.5 years and I almost have the hang of it... my knowledge/intelligence in general is like a +2 or +3 but in DnD it's like a -3 with a -4 initiative and -2 charisma.
It gets old. Im so fucking sick of telling two of the "players" at my group to "Keep track of your ammo, you know how that works right, make sure you use those points, you have an extra attack, did you remember to subtract your hit points?" Im so over it. I gotta get rid of these fucking clowns.
The char sheets are at the core of the gameplay. If they don't want to play, they should leave, and the DM sometimes has to roll that initiative him/herself, yeah? There are great digital sheets (shoutout to MPMB's, available on Enworld) if they prefer selecting menu items to manually writing and erasing everything (I sure do! It's faster, less messy, and prevents common mistakes and forgetfulness!), but if they just don't want to try to work the game mechanics at all, they're playing the wrong game.
There's nothing inherently wrong with RPing without rules, systems, and structure, but we've found that it's more fun with those, and that's what we all signed up for. If that's not what they want, they can kindly go play a different game that probably doesn't require a GM/DM and all of his/her prep work.
@@ivaldi13 DND beyond also have a comprehensive digital character sheet.
Gonna be honest... my entire group and I are a bunch of tier 0's >.
If you enjoy that playstyle, then it shouldn't matter much tbh, especially if you're having a lowkey sort of game! If you don't enjoy it, then you can always make changes to improve gradually. IMO, you only need one or two good/great players in order to have an enjoyable campaign.
It reminds me of the time my entire party left me bleeding out on the floor while they divvied loot after the first encounter. Only reason I went down was because the high AC fighter in the party left his testicles at home in a prospective fight against a pair of rogues, so it was either my squishy gish leading the charge or going home (literally)
Same. He named a bunch of things that everyone does sometimes, from what I've seen.
Yup.
3 people In my 8 group were until I kicked them out
Tier zero: Disruptive players. You actively drain the enjoyment out of the table by arguing a lot, being far too edgy, not having done any research of your own, and being a jerk irl in general.
Tier one: New players: You've done a bit of research, but you're still not fluent in what your character can do and when; you often need someone to explain something, which means everyone else has to wait (unless you're all new). You'll become an average player soon
Tier three: Average players: You're fluent in all the things that your character could do, but you're not so confident in role-playing, and you might meta-game sometimes.
Tier four: Good players: You're good at staying in character and thinking about what your character _would_ do, based on their personality, flaws, past events etc.
Tier five: Great players: At least as good at the game as good players, but are a good friend irl, too. If they see someone unusually quiet, they bring that person in and try to engage them.
Exceptional players: all of the above, and are exceptional at role-playing. Your group likes listening to your character speak through you, and you're funny and great to be around in general.
Actual players: a mix of all of the above =))
@@Winnetou17 exactly; I'm the top tier that this guy mentions except I often have to look up what a spell does or how something works. I do know where to look for it though.
I am currently playing in a group that used to be nearly impossible to DM for, as explained to me by my friend, who tried to DM them. They were chaotic, disruptive and rarely roleplayed, but I joined that group, mostly because they were available and I was without group at the time, and even in the first session, as the session progressed, there was a very noticeable change, as at first, they kind of awkwardly stumbled over my attempts at roleplaying with them, stuttering and not knowing what to do, but as the session went on, they adjusted to it and started to come out of their shells, and my character, a huggable black panther Tabaxi Trickster Rogue that immediately became the party's favourite as he cuddled our human barbarian woman, who was cold and asked if she could snuggled up to him for warmth (which, as I was told later, was the most rp she'd ever done) and, without knowing it was another PC that was replacing a PC that had just died to a monster, had tied up and robbed a PC, though after he'd interrogated them and realised they were no threat, he cut him loose and returned his items while apologising
30 mins for a character? thats cute! one of my players TOOK 2 FREAKING MONTHS
Phil Smiles It takes me like an hour... for the character sheet. And then it take another month for my backstory which HAS to be 500 words or more.
It usually takes me about a week for a general concept. Another 2 weeks to discover their general personalities (accents, sayings, general motivations, player and character goals) and another 2 months to write up a back story (generally between 20 to 100 pages depending if its a one shot or a 1-20 campaign) and finally about 10 min to roll up the character.
I fully flesh out my characters with long backstories in less than 2 hours typically.
Bruh, it takes me like 5 seconds.
@@novicebladesman2835 I write fantasy. I love creative writing, and I am good at it. My dm was complaining how everyone else had a tiny backstory. 3 hours and 9,000 characters (letters, not pcs) later, and a bunch of random plot things I added for him to throw in later, and I made him severely regret giving me creative freedom.
At my table the tier-list goes like this:
Shit tier: Doesn't pay attention to the game
Bad tier: Can't roleplay
Average tier: Understands the rules of the system
Good tier: Can roleplay
God tier: Understands good storytelling
Ok, legit question here, what do you mean with good storytelling? The problem here is that sometimes the PCs may pull the story in a different direction and even don't agree to where they want to go with it, and in general I've met people who don't like the railroading required sometimes to stay consistent with the story (I personally don't mind it, but just throwing that to consider too).
On a separate question, would you integrate the PC's stories to the main story? if so, how?
@@Silverhand404 typically a good DM has various stories at the ready and can pull into them from whatever goes on to re rail without seeming to do so. The super awesome dms have player stories and will allow them to trigger as a suedo main story and make it feel like it was the path to begin with. You'll find newer dms have a story and have trouble deviating with party interaction. It just takes knowing your group. Unless you just follow a base module
@@Silverhand404 Just make the main storyline continue around them. The world does not stop when the players are off in another city or on another continent
@@Silverhand404 The PC's story is the main story. They shouldn't be able to pull the story in the wrong direction because the story is what happens around them. The choices they make and the consequences they face is the meat of it all.
@@Silverhand404 I'd assume character arcs and enriching the world with the story their PC creates via their backstory and in-game actions?
On the point of character death, as I feel it has been discussed in this form of "elevating the roleplay to the next level" many times before, and that it is allegedly most commonly the less good players that struggle with it.
I'd say it really depends. Taking your example of Mufasa's death: It was a plot device, akin to having a family member or NPC die on the sidelines. He was never fleshed out over multiple campaigns and hours of visuals - he was introduced, built up as quickly as possible, and removed. Some may enjoy playing as Mufasa, others may have preferred being Simba in this case.
The point I am trying to make: D&D has and always will be primarily about having fun together. How this is defined may vary from table to table - some may argue it is fun to account for weight and temperature etc. Others may say it is more fun not to.
Exhaustive statements condemning a certain preference, in this case the disdain of unnecessary/unexpected character death, have little to do with the actual quality of a D&D player (or DM). Rather, the group should decide in advance if player death is possible or not - if it says it is, certainly you should be able to abide by this (obviously, you agreed to it). But if the group decides it isn't, does that make them worse players?
And, personally, even when death has been agreed upon as possible, I find there are a great many different ways to implement character death, and some may indeed be quite absurd, and worth complaining about - say if a god of the heavens comes down himself and kills a character with no counter play or options, this may be much less fun (obviously I am choosing an extreme, but it illustrates the point) than say if a character can come to the realization that the party is doomed and they must sacrifice themselves heroically to save the rest.
It must fit the general narrative of the characters and world designed, plus the consensus of the group itself. It is also not inherently valuable or sensible, but rather just another tool that *can* be used to enhance the story/engagement, but may also result in ruining the story/engagement of the characters (as an example, a totally senseless death as described above via some god of sorts does not add anything to the story, but rather in turn takes away the believability of the world, the consistency and may even result in a complete loss of engagement: if this is a world where people can and will randomly die no matter their actions or strength, why should I care?)
You should have mentioned that great players don't derail the fun.
In other words if everyone starts laughing about something that's outside of the game they are the first people to say all right everybody come on let's get back to the game.
Obviously everyone is there to play but they're also there to have a good time and make friends not feel like they are at school and constantly have to be told when to pay attention.
At the same point I understand when some people say they want the game to continue but as a DM if the drinks are flowing and the laughs are rolling then why stop. When people leave they remember that they had a wonderful time at your session and they'll be back.
Hellsmoke X agree 100%, but when the entire party is fighting that intense battle with the dungeon boss and that one guy keeps telling that one story about his pet cat Lenny, I think that’s when we should get back on track
I agree to some extent, but it can also go overboard real quick. The people I'm playing with, including myself, are still pretty new to DnD, so we're obviously still learning how to play well. We can get off topic pretty quick, and it can be a little frustrating to me when all the we accomplish in a 3 hour session is to travel from one place to another, talk with 3-4 npcs, and eat breakfast. I know it's about having fun and making jokes, but if it is at the expense of the moving the story forward, it's bad. We came to play DnD, but we hardly ever accomplish anything in game. Hopefully we learn to stay on task sooner rather than later.
I was in a group that got derailed all too easily. Sometimes, you have to remind people why they are there.
I agree and disagree, but like most things, you eventually do have to get back on track. In my groups we tend to crack jokes and go off-topic, and that's okay if it's not too long, what isn't okay is continuing that off-topic and it goes on and on, you have to tell people why we're there. Example, we were trying cameras to be face to face, and one of the other players kept interrupting to show us things and drawings. I eventually had to just tell her to stop because she was interrupting the little time we had and going on and on. At some point, people have to be told to stop and get back on track.
Character voice is SOOOOOO not necessary.
Actions speak louder than words (and voices). My PC is so well defined that she becomes, in many cases, predictable(in a good way, much how you know a friend would act in X scenario)to the other players at the table. They have a very well defined image in their mind of who my PC is. No amount of voice acting alone, would accomplish this.
IMO Voice acting is more needed for NPCs and the like, as it would add flavor that they can not convey in a short amount of time. Where as, PCs have many sessions to do so.
Good because I can’t do one lol,
For some people who are more into role play
It's just a little extra touch :0
Not necessarily voice but body language, what you say, how you say it. If there are no variations, I feel every character would come off feeling the same, just different race and class
@@catkook543 It also makes it easier to differentiate IC and OOC.
Normal voice = OOC
Character voice = IC
Honestly, I feel like so long as you bringing enthusiasm and empathy to the table you are a top tier D&D player.
This is beautifully put. It honestly made me feel better about myself as a player. Voices are hard for me but I love getting deep into my characters. Thank you so much for this video.
I visited with a friend and his family for Thanksgiving and ran a short pathfinder campaign for his sons (just a dungeon crawl with lighter roleplay elements) and they had a blast. Dungeons and Dragons is such a cool hobby that really helps you make some of the best memories, and I love seeing people get into it for the first time.
I still run into problems when I get rules ambushed by changes to core rules dynamically right when it’s relevant.
KuyuThe Dragon Welcome to WotC.
Joshua Roumonada oh, I was referred to Dm rules changes. I’ve been a DCI player quite a while...
It took me a moment to understand what you meant, but I too am grieved when this happens to me. I move on quickly, but it bums me out.
Simmilarly. our table constantly gets the rogue bonus disengage and dash wrong even though we have read the rules for it repeatedly.
Steve Underwood my dissidence comes from say when my dm for AL said “Ok, your grappled, that means you guys are captured.” This was irritating seeing as I had over half my spell slots an several outs left. The enemy were normal human knights, an the party was at relatively high hp. That’s what I mean by ambush rules changes, this wasn’t discussed before hand so that players were aware of, and can prep for possible situations. Just Opps the party lost an encounter cus the 4 knights grappled the party for one round.
I though I was a good player, until I noticed I'm a little bit disruptive sometimes...
TBH, most people are a little bit disruptive sometimes. So no worries. :P
Yeah don't take a lot if this video to heart. His version of disruptive is everyone, definitely not his best work. He is also focused intently on combat.
Sometimes you need to be the disruptive player to get things done/move along
I was keen to find out where I belonged but it turned out I did things from each tier haha
So I think I’ll just say I’m a good player but depends if I have a good or bad session on the day
@@jamesroberts8287 you gotta take what is said here in stride, even the most serious and greatest of players in a serious game, can make just the most immersion breaking whole table belly laughing puns or comments at the right time, is it disruptive? hell yes esp if everyone is dying laughing, is it still fun and a great moment to be had at the D&D table? again hell yes.
The biggest things to focus on are knowing when you are detracting from others enjoyment. if your table hates memes and ooc jokes, maybe don't make quips at every little thing.
"Learning h ow to play"
"Good p layers"
I saw that too. My brain b roke. 🤪
Thank you so much for this video. I watched it back when you first did it and loved it. Even now re watching it I am able to find things to work on from it.
Something I might want to add, is the mastery of the spoken and unspoken communication.
Being able to roll with the punches, and avoid correcting things in post. Knowing when and when not to speak.
The problem with character death (sometimes!) is that that character *isn't* Mufasa -- they're Simba. They're not just a background character important to someone else's story, they've got a story of their own that the player (and hopefully the other players and GM) are invested in!
Some groups and some players are more okay with unexpected death than others. (I'm okay with it, but in a game where I know my character could die permanently out of nowhere, I'm just not going to invest as much effort into their long-term story.) While it's crappy to be a jerk when it happens, I think it's important for a GM to lay out their policy on character death when a player joins the group. Especially in a fantasy game, death isn't *necessarily* the end of a story.
Lance Clemings
The trivialisation of death is the most loathsome part of D&D’s mechanics and anyone who doesn’t dispense with it is displaying immense weakness.
I'd reuse the character if that's the case.
GMA There’s nothing wrong with it as long as it’s built into the setting, I think. What does it mean to live in a world where death is impermanent? How does that change the world? It shouldn’t just affect the players. It should apply to NPCs - and the players’ enemies - as well. (In Steven Brust’s Taltos novels, the main character is an assassin in a world where magical resurrection is relatively common. It doesn’t lower the stakes, only change them.)
Lily Frey Ahh, yes, the old “oh sorry my man Balthazar the Paladin died but anyway here’s my next character Malthazar the Paladin, his twin brother I never mentioned who has exactly the same backstory and was here all along for everything that happened I just never mentioned it....”
Lulu Osborn
I just can’t help be feel that if you think that certain things can’t happen to character because it’s not time yet, you shouldn’t be playing a game with dice.
You cannot imagine, how useful and great this video actually is. I love it, beacuase it helps me and of course my fellow player to reflect on oneself. Thanks!
This video is great for me, im on session 3 of my first time playing d&d with 4 other new players. Im going to use this as a guide to be a better player
Good players are the ones who aren't a-holes, simple as that
Pedro Bastos they are not A holes but TWO HOLES! Ah ah ah ahhh! I’ll go away now.
Sounds like an average player to me.
Yep.... truth
Unless your character is supposed to be an a-hole. Then you are an a-hole 50% of the time.
@@dakotaanderson7906 Character being an A-hole is something, a player being an A-hole is another.
Hey XP to Level 3, where you at?
@900 exp
Not here ☹️
I’m a terrible player.
I dunno why Cody keeps paying me to play on his show 😅
This has been a really great video! It helped me recognise areas I need to improve on, and appreciate the things I do really well. I would place myself as on the border between average/good. I hope I can someday be a great player! Every week I'll try to be better than my previous week, and see where we go from there.
I've played DnD for like a year now with some good friends and heard one of my friends was about to DM for a couple of really new peeps, so I thought to like jump in and listen to their gameplay because why not? (Also lowkey wanted to act as a silent audience)
Then about 3/4 players didn't show up and only one player did, so it was about to be a DM and only one player campaign session and I friggen slapped my hand and offered to join as last minute.
>made a quick character in 10 minutes
>totally ready to play
>more folks showed up eventually
And we had a good session fighting an army of vegetables!~
New players had so much fun and only one person almost died :^D
I started off as a borderline disruptive player but that was nearly a decade ago. Now I'd place myself in the mid-good tier, workin' my way up!
I’m pretty new to DnD, but I have quite a lot of acting experience and it does really come in handy when playing. There’s lots of differences, too, of course, but giving everyone time in the spotlight is like the first thing you learn and always keeping yourself separate from the character is very important in acting as well. Even though I’m used to being able to use my whole body to characterise my role and I can’t really physically interact with the others, I do bring some prior skills to the table (I’d say I’m an average player, though)
Great channel man, loving the content 👍
I have two fantastic players that often feed me snippets of backstory, NPCs, and locations. Love this!
So nice to know that I'm not the only one who brainstorms in the shower more than in front of my laptop! xD Very good content, as usual, btw!
Doood, the commode and shower are the best places for simulations and plot processing.
I always brainstorm when I don't have access to my computer and/or paper.
it's both a blessing and a curse... mostly a curse. hate forgeting that cool idea
The shower/toilet are the best places to brainstorm about anything 😊
Used to have an hour commute to work - would run in the house after my drive to write down all my brainstorming I did along the ride!
I do a lot of my stuff at work. Night shift Janitor who isn't afraid if the public hears me Babbling. Show stuff sounds like a great idea though.
I like the videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
got my sub, running my first campaign this weekend, thanks for the tips!
Just realising how much I interrupt my dm rn. Been watching loads of videos on RUclips, esp yours and dungeon dudes, and I think I'm defo in the New Tier 2. Good to know!
In my wife's first game as a DM My character (dwarf barbarian Thorbin) became super close friends with another player's character (wood elf druid Krunn). Thorbin and Krunn were famous in the party not only for their shenanigans, but for their team tactics in battle. Having done everything from stopping a cult that was sacrificing children, to almost starting a war proving Thorbin's uncle's innocence and in turn discovering a truth about the king's advisor making a powerful friend, they had been through a lot together.
My wife needed to get the game back on track at one point and we needed a reason for the party to go after the Red Wizards of Thay and the cultists they were controlling. That next session we came with a plan. Thorbin in a bit of a drunken stupor revealed his greatest fear to Krunn, dieing outside of battle, for Thorbin worshipped Kord and knew he could be of use to his god if he died a glorious death in battle, but was not sure what would happen should he die of another cause.
The next morning the party is meeting up for breakfast, everyone but Thorbin is there, Krunn has a box brought before him, marked with the sigil of the Red Wizards of Thay. When he opens the box, he sees Thorbin's head. Checking Thorbin's room it becomes clear that he was drugged and killed in his sleep. Krunn also finds a box with his name on it and a note. When reading the note he finds it was written by our cleric at Thorbin's request. Inside is a magical pair of gauntlets made of stone and hand carved my Thorbin with his family crest carved into them. An arcana check reveals it gives him one free shift to the form of a primal bear per long rest. "Happy birthday Krunn! Thorbin hope these give Krunn much honor in battle and keep Thorbin's favorite wood elf safe. Your friend Thorbin."
After our paladin uttered a short prayer, the party set out on a war path bringing down the Red Wizards, the cultists, and even Tiamat.
TL;DR: I agree, player death can be a powerful thing, and even a tool when used properly.
While I don't fully agree with this list, I want to echo that bit about reading a table. It's so important. Honestly, it can be the difference between the exact same behavior being disruptive or not. Case in point: I was once playing a Rifts game where everyone was a mutated creature (think Ninja Turtles, but much more widespread and publicly known). I created a tortoise who was an archer, but being an archer was more of a side-gig for him. I think throughout the whole campaign I fired like 2 arrows total. His real schtick was corrupt bureaucracy. I once got us into a church by forging a notice that it wasn't up to code and was being condemned and then saying I could "look the other way" if they let us in. Stuff like that was my bread and butter. It was super fun and all the other players thought it was hilarious.
I tell that story to other people I know and they say they would hate to play with a character like that. What my group found fun, they would find disruptive. You have to learn to read the table.
I support Teenage Mutant Archer Bureaucrat!
A good, solid video. Keep up the good work
Greeting from germany Starslayers player here,
have deffently seen all the Tiers in our games. Sometimes it is even fun, but mostly annoying.
Keep the good work up man, we love it.
I think I am a non-disruptive rules lawyer. If the DM says something and I know a rule, I may go "well actually...", but on the other side I won't argue any further than that. If we're doing it this way, then fine, let's do it this way.
The game I play in on monday nights the DM actually likes me for this, not because I truly rules lawyer, but because I have the quick access to the rules and stats of various things that he can't always look up on the fly as he is busy controlling the stream(the sessions are livestreamed) and generally DMing, so when someone has a question I can usually bang out an answer in seconds. Allowing the DM to continue with his job and generally clarifying any issues the group might have. It helps I either have a physical copy of the books or DnDbeyond copy at the ready.
Rule Lawyer is a term that can mean various things: in the best case they know the rules and tell the party or GM how those rules are applied but they can also handle it when things don't go according to the rules for some reasons the GM might have (or not =P). In the worst case they are constantly disruptive, always try make the rules work in their favour and get salty when they are denied it.
For what you both described so far i prefer the term rule keeper. They might also insist on the rules but rather in a way that says same rules for every one. I think this is not neccessarily bad unless you overdo it whenever some decession does not follow the rules.
I will help GM by looking for a rule , to let play continue. That's a good rules lawyer
@@TheKidnappedOne Same for me with several DMs that I play with. One DM has many times asked my opinion on edge cases where there are multiple things happening at once and he doesn't want to stop the game to look up possible answers. At that particular table one player jokes that there is no point to arguing with me because I am usually right. I have even openly stated to many tables I am at that really I don't care about the rules themselves so long as we are all playing by the same rules. Nothing frustrates me more then when I am playing by one set of rules only to find out we are playing by another set.
@Niko Straub Yeah for that reason I have got to the point of hating the term Rules Lawyer since it is such a caught all term. A while back I watch a video by Puffin Forest and he broke the term down into two groups, Rules Purists and Rules Hagglers. Rules Purists are pretty much people who think that the game as it is written should be the most fun since after all the company made the game with fun in mind. Rules Hagglers are the people who do deserve scorn since these are the people who argue the rules in their favor at all times even if they argued that same rule a different way not 10 min ago. I have added a third term for what I think most people who are called Rules Lawyers fall under. The Fair Play Player. Essentially they don't care so much how rules are used so long as it is the same for everyone all the time unless told ahead of time that it is being changed. I honestly think most people fall under this category more then the other two.
Same, my DM thanks me all the time for knowing the rules and spouting them out.
I started playing weekly like a month ago and it hurts so much when I remember the things I failed to realize or properly deal with just days ago. In general people promote this idea of GMs as tolerant martyrs, because having lousy players is way better than not having players, but the learning process is a pain for all parties involved and I believe everyone should thank their initial GMs.
I agree wholeheartedly with this tier list, and admit that I just recently began meeting the good player criteria and only hope to improve
I feel incredibly fortunate to have my player group when I hear about some of the horror stories that a lot of DMs go through. Using this list I would rate them good and above consistently. The RP is on point, they get super involved with their characters, and they know how to take the good sessions with the bad. It's like I hit the DM jackpot.
To me all I ask for in a group is people that can just role with the game, work as a team, come prepared, and pay attention.
This is wait I try to do and so it's only fair that others do it.
6:28 "the 3 to 4 things."
*Looks at the NOVEL that is Wild Shape, the short story that is Natural Explorer, the 20 different optional rules that will matter for sneak attack, the 30 cantrips a Wizard can know/28 Sorcerers can learn, the 5 different things that come with rage at level 1...*
x.x
Personally I get around this in a couple of ways, first is write down the most important detail about the item or sub item.
Second is write a "character synopsis" in tandem with the sheet. Then I can just Google the skill if it comes up or look at the synopsis if I just have a brain fart and need the info quickly.
as a magic user any spell used for the first or second time can lead to a small discussion because, maybe you misinterpreted a detail or get question about a detail you are not yet 100% sure about and have to read again... so i think this only counts for basics, like sneaking, basic attacks and so on
I used to DM way back in the 1980s with some college buddies and loved it. Now I am retired and I want to get back in. Your video is very helpful and I intend on watching more. I want to be extremely prepared for my first game I intend to DM very shortly. I love to entertain and have a lot of imagination, creativity, and improvisation to bring to the game. for the last 15 years I have done haunted houses in my neighborhood and just love to be creative for each room and walk people thru it with stores, etc. That's why I realized this is something in my blood. I have also invested a lot into 3-D tiles, battlemats, etc to add even more realism to the game. But, I know that does not make a good game. I am just working on trying to be the best DM I can be.
I'm so glad we have so little improvisation to do at my table. Every player has an average to sometimes an amazing background story prepared and I as the DM build on that. I even got them to agree that money is not a proper motivation ^^
I feel like this is too narrowly directed at tables looking to maximize immersive storytelling and roleplay. Which, don't get me wrong, is a thing lots of people like, but I'd disagree that it makes someone a universally good player. Not every table wants that kind of immersion or depth, some folks just want a reason to hang out with their friends, roll dice, kick some butt, and chat with people they might only see once a week, or fortnight, or month.
Yeah. Like, at my table, good RP is secondary to good problem solving and strategy. One PC is a kind of bland lawful good knight type, but she's so good about thinking about good solutions to problems.
I think its great that people are discovering roleplaying games again, but i feel that people are starting to disregard these games for their mechanical enjoyment and creative problem solving. There is nothing wrong with playing these games as a meatgrinder challenge and disposable characters and there is a lot of enjoyment to be had in being able to play the game well with well optimized characters. The only thing that is important in all campaigns is knowing how to play together without taking away enjoyment from others.
Right, I'm in two groups, one is more into immersive playing, the other is more casual and will suddenly stop mid-game to chat about something someone mentioned about something out of game which starts a new conversation for ten minutes.
I can understand that some people just want to hang out but i personally would be not be interested in such Groups. Unfortunatly my group is kinda like that.
One just wants to kick butts, no discussions etc. He is one of my best buds but he serisouly called me a Troll or someone without Knowledge because i act as my Charakter
Yeah. Stops being a game when people are just hanging out talking. The mechanics are there for a reason. It's an RPG not an RP. There are forums for that garbage.
I like this as a tier system for players in roleplaying games:
Insane - Here we have the players who are impossible to follow or predict, who have no idea what is going on/aren't paying attention, or are otherwise causing trouble. This category is mostly here as a joke and to establishing the naming scheme, as there always needs to be something at the bottom. If you have a player in this tier, there's a good chance there's some kind of misalignment between the game and the player that can be resolved through conversation without resorting to name-calling.
Interested - Here we have players who are interested in the game, but have a low understanding of the systems, world, or roleplaying. They tend to be newer players, who are happy to watch what the other players are doing and get a feel for what the game is like.
Involved - Here we get players who are starting to get into the game. Generally they'll have a good understanding of what their character can do, and how to maneuver them through the world in combat or social scenarios. This isn't to say that they're necessarily master role-players, but that they know how their character thinks. They may have some understanding of the broader setting, the systems outside of what they use, or other game knowledge, but their skillset is largely focused on what they do.
Immersed - Here we get players who are onboard with the game in a broader sense. They keep track of details about the world to call back to them as needed, they know their own abilities, as well as those of their friends and potentially enemies, and are generally fully invested in the game while playing.
Inspired - Here we get players who usually hit all of the above skills, and also have a strong grasp on how to contribute to the narrative in fun ways that involve other people at the table. They can roll with the punches, and help inspire other people to up their game by contributing regularly without taking over. You can be an inspired (or inspiring) player without necessarily knowing every rule, every skill, or every detail of the world, but these tend to go hand in hand: the main factor here is that they make the game more fun for everyone else at the table.
Maybe there could be an "Indifferent" rating above insane? :)
@@unicyclepeon I think something like "Indifferent" is probably a nicer replacement for "Insane", since really that tier is meant to capture people who don't care about the game at all and aren't present at the table. Someone who is indifferent and isn't paying attention or following what is happening would be in the same category as someone who keeps actively trying to derail the campaign in this ranking, since both people are actively making the experience worse for other players, and the solution is probably going to involve talking to them about it.
I'd put myself between interested and involved. Being in my first campaign it's really intimidating trying to role play when I'm completely ass at it compared with the rest of my party. What usually happens in game is that I try to interact with the rest of the party/game until I get to a situation where I don't how my character would respond and I end up freezing and staying quiet for the rest of the session. I think part of my problem is that my character's back story is simple with barely any hooks to work off of and choosing a charismatic bard as a character when Irl I can barely talk to people.
I don't really know how to improve apart from learning mechanics and I genuinely feel like I'm dragging down the quality of our campaign.
I would also put myself between interested and involved. I've played many games, but I do not like the role play portion of D&D as much as others, so I tend to prefer to stay back and let others take the lead. If I have to get in character and lead the party we have issues, but I guess that shows in what I play too, I play more support classes than anything that is going to be frontline lead. I focus on keeping the party alive and generally tend to go with what the group wants to do.
I played a mute character once, this was great expect for the fact that most of the rest of the party was insane, and I had to figure out ways to put out fires without speaking. Fires like, "hey lets kill this NPC who gave us the quest, just cause" I tried to use spells and stuff to help the NPC by making them fail while not looking to be working against the party... that particular instance didn't work out so well, but the campaign was fun, though short lived.
I find it funny that I’m in the same space, I think. Right between interested and involved. I’ve been playing with the same group for about five or six years (off and on as life happened and we’ve switched to many different systems), but I still feel like the newbie at the table as everyone else has been doing this for forever. I’m quiet and I feel like I don’t think quite fast enough to keep up with the rest, I get talked over a lot because of this and usually end up feeling like a disruptive player because I get sidelined and spend the session in sullen silence (and yes, passive aggressively pouting). I start out trying to be a team player only to eventually find myself the outsider looking in while everyone else is doing literally everything before I even think of what I want to do.
I’d like to think I’m a good role-player, at least in the written form, and that things are slowly improving with my group and with myself, and maybe I’ll move up into a higher tier one day.
I definitely think I fall into all of these categories at one time or another. It's not as much about how good or bad of a player I am, its about how much I vibe with the DM and the group. Definitely still an insightful video though
watched a few videos of yours now, very eye opening. I just realized I'm a disruptive player thinking the whole while I was a good player :( thank you for the experience. Will be making efforts to improve myself for my group!
I feel like an awkward mix of every tier. I definitely need to work more on accepting player deaths, rules lawyering in the negative sense, and especially on being pouting or becoming overly confused when I think and encounter seems oddly balanced.
There's always room to grow.
PFFT I drop early in fights all day #lowlevelcaster
What you said about having a voice for a character made me feel so much better because since people at my table have the mindset that you must have a voice for each character that isn't your own and I just feel I'm not ready to be doing a voice
I just finished creating my first character and tomorrow morning it’s show time I’m hyped 💪🏼