"What do you do, read journals all day?" Why, yes. And the synthesis of medical information that produces -- together with the example of being open minded to evolving research study results --- is enormously valuable to your subscribers. Great video, thanks.
Absolutely love, Dr. Esselen and the fact that he is still active and caring into his 90s says a lot for that man. Thank you for taking the time to interview him. We owe you both much respect.
Ugh, so many RUclips doctors with different opinions and most claim studies support them. And trying to find a good local doctor is hit or miss because you're somewhat dependent on your health insurance, unless you can afford to try multiple doctors until you find a good one. I'm becoming of the view that the best health advice is no processed foods, exercise and maintain a healthy weight.
@@daleg9355 You sound like the type of person dismissing canola oil, in spite of its proven health benefits, because "reeeeeeeeee! they use chemicals when refining it reeeeeeeeee! "
I noticed the same and what I think is it is mostly about a healthy weight and maybe avoid drinking. I did eat mostly carbs. My bloodwork and health, blood pressure, are perfect. It seems that everyone else who has gained weight for a long time are not as healthy, they have high blood pressure, waking up multiple times to go to the bathroom, swallowing issues, etc. I believe the key is staying skinny.
This was great. From my personal experience olive oil and the mediterranian diet did nothing for me. I followed it religiously snd had a stroke at 61 with plack build up in areteries. Today I am near 66 and have pretty much adhered to a Dr Esseltyn style diet. I was not supposed to survive 3 years let alone live alone. So for me I think it has extended my life and has really helped me.
Olive oil has a lot of calories along with most of the things he forbids. It's nice it works for you, but the reality is that any diet that keeps you in the normal bmi range and you get enough exercise will probably give the same results. People argue against the keto diet, but practitioners always have a reduction of blood pressure, which indicates better blood flow through the arteries. My brother is on this diet and just had a clot in his heart. Too many years of sweets and fats. I use a small amount of olive oil for cooking. Olives have been eaten for thousands of years.
in my case and my brothers, was the opposite; lost two of them following this, and another had a heart attack and other a by pass, y 2 stents 20 years ago and open new aortic valve; but before surgery i eliminated 6 of 8 medications with good fats, no sugar or carbs, plenty of greens and nuts, but the best was fasting.....
@@hardcoreherbivore4730 sounds to me that the guy is stuck in the 60s/70s, when the bad thing was oils I am not going to be eating less pure olive oil. It doesn't cause heart disease He wants us to eat plants. Olives ARE a plant
Good approach, however the world would be a much better place if many had independence of thought also. However, in this situation, Esseltyne IS NOT the only one with such opinions and conclusions..
@@exwhyz9367 Certainly, but its a minority and hence there is little evidence. If it had solid substance there would be much more people working on it.
Im following this mans advice and as my cardiologist said... "Amazing , amazing results" His studies are peer reviewed and you might like to check out the Cleveland clinic.. he mentions his caution about oils because people tend to use too much.. i use a little virgin cold pressed oil, i even allowed myself a biscuit as a treat or square of dark chocolate and stayed on the stress test thread mill for 18.5 min and i know that i can get much fitter. His advice is super tough.. best way to look at it, this was the way past generations ate.
2 and half years ago I ended up in hospital with crippling angina at 57 years old. I was booked in for a stent and told to take 80mgr of statins, a beta blocker, and a blood thinner. I went on Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's whole food plant-based diet and within 3 weeks my LDL halved and the chest pain got way less. By 3 months I had zero pain. Today at 60 I run 5 km easily and MTB, Tramp, and Kayak fish catching fish for everyone but me. That was all the proof I needed. I never got the stent or took any of the meds. My BP is 115 / 75, my LP(a) is 6 and my APOB went from 141 and is now 87 and drops lower every time I test it. My HS CRP is very very low. Thats all I need to know.
@@NattyNarwhaal exactly, he probably lost a lot of weight and that is what happens on a vegan diet. I came to the conclusion that most things come down to weight and weight gain. It seems your body runs out of fat storage and then your body goes downhill fast.
Be happy because you discovered dr Esselstyn before to get any stent or bypass I am also 57 old , I got a stent 3,5 years ago and after 3 months later I discovered dr Esselstyn , then I followed his diet until today without any drugs, just b12 and d3 2 times per week. But strictly without any oil or any nut , so far I am fine.. I don’t know tomorrow
Dr. Esselstyn is a saint. I reversed my father's heart disease and blocked arteries employing his diet. I am 76 years young and by following his program have energy of a 20 year old man. God bless him ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
This was a very well done interview. I love the way you discuss science with others and how you are able to agree to disagree without being disagreeable or attacking the other person or their motives. I am glad so many others have found this fantastic channel and getting the benefits of your efforts.
Gil was so respectful to Dr E. (at almost 91 years old) despite not being able to get his key point across about doing randomized studies to get more conclusive evidence for Dr E’s program-but his mind was made up and so I appreciate Gil’s respectful patience throughout this discussion! I love both Drs! Dr E is a legend and so sharp -his mind is wonderfully fluid and that was amazing to see! ….and Gil is a medical legend in the making!❤
@iamkerenlouise On the contrary, Dr E agreed that more studies should be done but what do you do until that happens? The best you can do is what you DO know has shown to work … especially when NO ONE Dies. 99% don’t have any adverse events but compliance is a real issue.
@@alexanderzubar9593 Some of the people posting here seem unaware of the research Dr. E and others in the field (Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. T. Colin Campbell). Compliance does become a challenge without a very good support system. Often family and friends think WFPB is extreme and “everything in moderation” would have the same effect (making it even more difficult for a person to remain WFPB); unfortunately when heart disease threatens a person’s livlihood or life, WFPB is the least invasive, least expensive and proven way to mitigate and reverse heart disease.
Sure... but there are other 90 year olds who broke all the rules. Basically, it's a combination of environment and genetics plus diet, but not all diets work for everyone. 🤓
IMO he's just dogmatic and clinging on to reasoning that has a shaky foundation. I've seen 100yo that are in better shape. Take Dr. John Scharffenberg for example. It seems like he slurs his speech and his voice sounds weak. Maybe it's just something temporary, but his condition does not instill confidence in his diet. Common sense whole food plant based. Avoid processed grains and sugar and stay away from concentrated sources of saturated fats. No need to go overboard.
This was an amazing interview.. Esselstyn is LEGENDARY!!! the china was amazing showing that two countries can come together for a common good humanity..
It's important to note that Dr. Esselstyn's approach is specifically designed to reverse individuals with chronic conditions, as these are the patients he encounters. He aims to eliminate even the smallest contributors to their diseases, which is why his dietary recommendations may come across as quite rigid.
I really liked the tone of the interview. I liked even more the final summary you made, Gil. Always a step back and a honnest look at scientific evidence.
Thank you for doing an interview that is not just supporting your views on olive oil. I would appreciate more interviews with different views that are science based on the issue olive oil. Keep up the good work!
Gil, I completely agree with your conclusions, excellent feedback and that’s coming from a previous very strict Dr. E patient since 2018, but since 2022 after being on Dr. E’s very strict diet, I questioned being so cold all the time, not feeling so good and after very careful research. I began adding 15g of Organic Walnuts, 1 tablespoon of Hemp Hearts, Black Coffee, Super high quality Omega 3 supplement, & 1/2 of an avocado every day day after being on Dr. E’s diet for 4 years without those items. The results for me after adding those items back into my diet were amazingly very positive so far! I feel much better today, am not ice cold anymore, added back on 10 of the 40 pounds I lost and do not look as emaciated, As you explained, there needs to be more studies. Am I afraid that these additions could be a mistake, yes of course; I can only hope that I changed my diet for the better? Dr. E is very convincing and would scold me to no end if he knew!! JasonCurrentlyinFlorida
Everyone is going to die, better to live 10 years less filling well and with energy that living longer but in low energy is a tread-of is your choice, mine is clear I would eat avocados EVO and nuts, I like to eat and with out fat eating is disgusting.
That is a reasonable amount of fat in a diet. There is a margin room for individual needs and other factors, in my experience and I think data on longevity populations show this margin for a certain amount of fat, but certainly not the standard amount neither what is considered low fat by medical staff.
@@alexandrejuve1305 Yes my feeling exactly the Dr. Esselstyn is probably something someone who has serious life-threatening cardiovascular disease to go to as a last resort. But I think there is a middle ground -- if someone told me that I could live 5 years longer if I only ate sawdust I would probably opt for eating good food and dying 5 years sooner! LOL
Wow! Easily one of the top videos I’ve viewed even by the extremely high standards Dr. Gil sets. Loved listening to two of the most knowledgeable people discussing causes and possible solutions to the epidemic of heart disease we now have. Dr. Gil, by his extensive fact-based research and preparation for his interviews does something I haven’t yet found from any other source. Dr. Esselstyn is amazing. The lack of defensiveness in both of these people is so admirable and extremely hard to find.
This couldn't have come at a better time for us. Dad just got discharged from the hospital after suffering a widowmaker heart attack, we're very lucky to have him with us right now. I've been absorbing all of this information and we now have dad on a WFPB diet (and slowly trying to convert the rest of us too). While we can't prove Dr. Esselstyn's explanation about nitric oxide with 100% certainty it is hard to argue with the outcome data, which is more important than the underlying mechanism anyway.
Don't forget to have your dad on a significant statin. I say that because Dr. Esselstyne's study participants were almost ALL on a statin along with his diet. Both his initial group of 28 patients as well as the 198 in the more recent study. Can't leave out such a important factor if you are trying to duplicate his favorable results. BTW, while greens are a very important component of his diet, there is scant evidence that chewing those greens 6 times a day is any more beneficial that just eating them in one or two meals a day.
The stuff on nitric oxide is not in question the role of NO has been OVERWHELMINGLY confirmed by many thousands of medical studies since it was identified as the mysterious "endothelial relaxation factor" in the late 1980s -- the three scientists were awarded the Nobel Prize in medicine for that discovery about a decade later.
REALLY awesome interview. 👏I think your wrap-up is a must-watch for everyone. (Btw, I have two forms of serious heart disease which are probably hardly affected by food-like having rheumatic fever as a child-so I'm a bit reserved about the paper tiger thing...but I get it, he's talking about plaque.)
This is quite controversial:in many places in Sardegna and South Italy there are many elderly living a good life and eating evo since they were born. No vegan/vegetarian either.
Thank you so much Gil for doing this. I’m 2 years into my post 1000plus calcium index score discovery. The trio of Dr Greggor, Essylstin, and you are where I look for evidence based solutions, with you being far and away the most rigorous
Out of curiosity (and if you don't mind)...your age? After your research, have you gone whole food plant based or done something else to try and slow the calcium progression?
@@mattg7977 Glad to let you know. Age 61. At age 57 I weighed 265, a steady climb to that over 30 years from 180 to 190 to 200, etc.. Finally decided to do something about it. Starting walking and watching what I ate. About 9 months later I was down to 190. During that journey, I ‘fell for’ the low carb thing, at least for the supposed health benefits. Eventually decided to get the Calcium Index Score (no symptoms, had to actually insist to get it and pay out of pocket). 1000+. Ugh. Started more rigorous research. Could go on for hours about that journey. Started eating even more healthy, more exercise, dropped to my high school weight of 170. Low Fat, high protein, anabolic style eating. Feeling great, but still worried. Eventually went whole food plant based, loving it. The thing that cinched it for me was (too much info alert) is I had still been suffering from erectile dysfunction even with all the other health improvements. After switching to WFPB, that completely was cured. I also was able to finally get off the last of my blood pressure meds. I currently take a low dose statin (5mg) as my only med, I keep my LDL below 60. Anyway, so many resources out there to make WFPB easy to do and tasty. I do eat small amounts of nuts, seeds, avocado, etc. I do Dr Gregory’s daily dozen. I follow the American heart association reco to keep any saturated fat at or below 5 percent daily calories. I don’t “worry” about seed oils, I just don’t use much of it to keep wasted calories from creeping in.
I watched the whole thing. Definitely worth the time. I appreciated Gil respectfully pushing back. I see Dr. Esselstyn as a wealth of knowledge, with one setback of still having grown a bit stubborn to see new data, and became rather set in his ways in some small ways. The argument "it works" is different from "it's the only way" and "this is optimal". I felt a bit of frustration with Gil where Dr. Esselstyn would still have to be ignoring a lot of other arguments of people having long and productive lifespans on diets with polysaturated fats, rich with fish, some meat as well as plants. At the end of the day, if you have populations that are living well into their 90s and are still agile and happy, the blood tests are only a factor of that and you don't want to ignore the obvious first. Now being over 4 years into a journey of listening to tons of podcasts on health, one big point that seems to rise to the top is these hardcore diets that are limited, one way or another - strict vegetarian, strict carnivore, strict no oil, it's probably not optimal. Biggest thing is getting rid of processed foods - go back to what mother nature makes.
This was not an informative interview, in that Esselstyn refuses to acknowledge scientific data that go against the beliefs he holds dear. Most unscientific position. And you showed tremendous restraint and respect. Yes, many oils are unhealthy, such as palm, but many aren't, especially olive and nut. My question is: if we can't get our fat from olive, avocado, canola and nuts, exactly from where are we supposed to get it? Or does Esselstyn think we don't need fat at all? And BTW, to say, we shouldn't eat nuts because we can't control ourselves is downright condescending.
You can easily get fat from fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes alone without any nuts, seeds, avocados, olives, or any oils. I can easily eat 10-30 grams of fat a day without any overt fats.
@Anarcath he is only reporting what he observed as a doctor and type of people he was treating. Now, if he was a pediatrician instead, then he might have provided a different belief on what is the proper diet.
@@billdublewhopper3064 fruits, vegetables and grains don't contain enough fat to sustain the body. Go do your own research before you reply like an idiot.
Thank you for this - I have been waiting for this one! Loved your wrap up at the end - it was spot on 💯 I truly appreciate your balanced approach and ability to highlight differences in thought or opinion without personal attacks. Best nutrition channel out there in my opinion!!
Absolutely brilliant. I have been looking forward to this one. It shows how effective WFPB is fighting back against CAD. It also as usual offers the balance on evidence that there is likely multiple nuances that lead to its success and potentially its flaws. Personally I found it to hard to adhere too. I have significant plaque and I’m nearly 50, a diet that could reverse plaque is what got me looking at Esselstyn and giving it a go. But olive oil and nuts bring some joy ! Joy is also important in life ! I’ve cut out booze and sweets and saturated fats and that’s made a huge difference. My blood cholesterol Levels are all good. My Apob is good and within ranges. BP is all good. I stick to a Mediterranean diet but with no red meat at all. Anyways many different genetics that require multiple approaches. Thanks for the podcast !!
Remember he deals with patients often with multiple heart interventions, including multiple bypass surgeries, who have been given no more options with medical intervention and whose bypasses have gotten clotted or other failures.
This was top notch content. Gil was top class and he was so prepared to even the obscure references and studies that Dr. E might reference. Gil was there to make sure those studies were analyzed rigorously. It was also amazing to see how this was never a « gotcha » kind of interview where Gil would refute him, as he easily could have (Dr. E kept referring to very low quality evidences like anecdotes, population, animal studies - which we’ve learned from Gil are much below RCTs), but instead he was respectful and ultimately had the disposition of someone just trying to get to the truth of the matter. Gil had his studies that supported unsaturated fats actually being heart healthy and even olive oil, and Dr E didn’t really have much evidence apart from his patients. Again, I learned so much, and obviously Dr E is doing something right being as intellectually active at his age.
For those that want the specific dietary advice from Esselstyn, see: 41:40 - 43:10 44:15 - 44:45 46:50 - 47:10 Note that Gil asserts that the available evidence does not appear to support his conclusions on all oils and nuts. GREAT job done by Gil once again - not only does he make these topics interesting to laypeople, but he strikes such a skilled balance in directly disagreeing while remaining respectful. THANK YOU!!
Thanks for doing this interview, Gil! I've been wanting to hear someone challenge Esselstyn on his anti-oil rhetoric for a long time. But ever since he backed out of the debate with Dr Avi - I doubted I'd ever get to see this. Dr. Esselstyn doesn't strike me as someone who welcomes push back on his claims - So I suspect this discussion is the closest we'll ever get to a 'debate'
It seems to me that the discussions (even this one) jump back and forth between a scenario of "severe heart disease patient" and "average aging person", and the prescription of no fat is assumed to apply to the average person as well. Dr. Esselstyn was vague about this in regards to the average person, not wanting to take a leap towards "it depends". It is a slippery slope, but health markers for some kind of alarm system might be helpful to avoid confusion overall. If you watch his wife's & daughter's cooking show, you will notice that there is a clear distinction made when using recipes from Dr Esselstyn's book meant for heart patients, and recipes for those folks who are not in that category. For the latter group, they prepare recipes that contain peanut butter and sweeteners for example. When using these recipes, the difference is often pointed out to warn heart patients that this food is not compliant with the Esselstyn diet plan. Same goes for Rip's Engine 2 food line.
Seemed plenty of healthy discussion. Avi disputed the reversal claims, not sure if Esseltyne used that word, but if the plaque is stabilised then that’s about as good as it gets
Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. Dean Ornish were the first two drs to show you can reverse or halt health disease with a low fat whole food plant based diet with no oils.
Yes Gil do more like these. I am a esselstyn follower and thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I follow you as well and find a lot of answers to my question from all the work you do. Thank you!!
Thanks for bringing us this interview Dr Gil and really appreciate your analysis at the end. You were respectful, but responsible in pointing out those ideas promoted by Esselstyn which are not supported by the data.
The average American consumes just one quart of olive oil per year. The Spaniards consume FIVE GALLONS of Extra Virgin Olive Oil per year! Spaniards rank #10 in longevity. Americans rank #55. Please pass the EVO!!! (-:
This was a great interview! I appreciated that Dr. Esselstyn shared his patient's stories. While such extreme restriction may not be absolutely necessary, I understand why he advocates for it considering he that he has seen how much his patient's have improved when they adhere to it. However, I do think some people can eat 1/4 cup of nuts or less with their oatmeal or as a snack and not go overboard so I don't agree with advocating for NO NUTS just because some people can't control their intake. It's wonderful that he takes time with each patient and gives them a dietary solution to improve their health when that's what they are seeking. He provides solutions even if they may be difficult to adhere to. It's great that he provides support.
I expect that Esselstyn is much more used to people who interview him just to cheerlead his views, without any challenge. This was an important discussion and we need more of this type of interview which presents science contrary to views which all too often never get directly challenged. Extremely restrictive diets will generally cause significant weight loss, if people can stick with them. All the benefits could be from the weight loss. Without an RCT it is hard to draw many specific conclusions. Good job of pointing out the areas in which the science supports the data and those areas for which the science does not support the data.
It seems that while Gil is happy to debate with Dr Esselstyn, Dr Esselstyn is not willing to debate with Gil. He only has his own rhetoric from which he will not deviate by one iota. This is unfortunate. I have respect for him and what he has achieved, but a scientific mind must always be open to hearing and debating a counter argument.
I agree. Esselstyn is pretty underwhelming when he is mildly challenged on any point. Gil couldn't have been more respectful and the guy just refused to engage and reminded me more of a politician than a doctor/scientist.
Olive oil can be a healthy addition to your diet, but it's important to be mindful of its calorie content. Many people tend to overuse it. he said many time Dr. Esselstyn’s endorsement of olive oil could lead those at risk for cardiovascular issues to use it excessively. It's true that olive oil can enhance the flavor of foods due to its high calorie density, appealing to our primal instincts to get as much calories you can in one sitting.
35:44 Gil questioned the "strengthen the cap over the plaque" explanation to make you "heart attack proof": Dr. Esselstyn *loved* his "you need to test/measure" counter-argument at 36:43... So he's willing to bend his rhetoric... just a little 😂
Esselstyn stands on his position because that is where the science led him over his professional career and research. I understand why he would not back off of that just to please others. He's the first one to say that if the science shows a different result he would entertain that information - but it doesn't. I stand with the science.
Great video! I support a plant based diet and still disagree with Esselstyn on oil consumption. There's clear evidence that certain oils are heart healthy. It is interesting to see doctors from an older generation and hearing what their viewpoints are from the information they had at the time they were studying all this. They didn't have the internet back then to easily access and share info. Now that new studies are out that can be viewed online by anyone, older retired doctors either don't know much about the internet and what you can find or just don't care and continue to push what they knew back then. Whether or not you agree or disagree with Esselstyn, he was a pioneer in the plant base diet and I'm happy that Gil was open minded to hearing someone that he doesn't 100% agree with.
I guess it depends on the stage one is on. The diet you are going to sustain for decades and decades is not very low fat. Some nuts, some chocolate, even some avocados and coconuts here and there. If it's disease reversal phase that's when cutting fat as much as possible is helpful.
People who search for this information are 100% doing it because of a problem. There is little help to be wishy-washy about their diet and try to please their bad diet habits. Extracted oils are not essential. And I suspect not even close to optimal. Fats on the other hand I had to increase fro 30 gr to 55 gr 😂5o improve TG and cholesterol numbers. All WFPB of course.
Here is a PREDIMED analysis regarding prior nut and seed consumption before assignment to nut and seed intervention, compared to those assigned to EVOO. Hint: the best outcome was in the group with prior nut and seed consumption assigned to the nut and seed group. Frequency of nut consumption and mortality risk in the PREDIMED nutrition intervention trial (2013, BMC Medicine) an interesting excerpt: Figure 1 shows the multivariate adjusted HRs for total mortality by frequency of total nut consumption and intervention group. In the three arms of the trial, individuals who consumed nuts >3 servings per week tended to have a lower risk of mortality than those in the reference category. Subjects in the upper category of nut consumption at baseline allocated to the MedDiet with nuts intervention had a significant reduction in total mortality risk of 63% (95% CI −34% to −78%), while those allocated to the MedDiet with EVOO and the control diet had non-significant reductions of 34% (95% CI −64% to 10%) and 16% (95% CI −52% to 44%), respectively. The interaction between baseline total nut consumption and intervention group was significant, P = 0.019).
Can't help but think, for some adherents to an ideology, it doesn't really matter what current and contemporary science uncovers, they will still cling to their beliefs no matter what. Esselstyn is one such individual. Notwithstanding this, there's plenty to commend in his views, pertaining to good dietary protocols, but it's nevertheless mixed in with ideology, dogma and no small degree of intransigence. Brilliantly interviewed though. Sometimes your facial expressions were very telling, along with pertinent and intelligent questions.
Michael Greger as well. He definitely has a tendency to over exaggerate health claims when it comes to disease “reversal” and WFPB/vegan diets. Would love to see someone like Gil, who really studies and understands scientific literature, interview him.
I read. I listen. So many Doctors. So many contradictions. I admire Dr. Esselsty. Dr. Campbell. Dr. Oz. Dr. Gundry. Dr. Ornish..... I've read them all. At the end of the day, all I can do is what works for me, and let the cards fall as they may. I know I will die of a heart attack, I almost died with my last one. I just hope I can fend it off as long as possible. I love Gil's videos.
The claim that "Olive Oil is injuring your Arteries" has neither randomized studies nor meta analysis backing it. It's all anecdotal from this guy. This is counter to Gil's prior videos demonstrating to the contrary. If you state there are sporadic studies backing this, I will counter with that such is in opposite to the vast data demonstrating the efficacy of olive oils and other monounsaturated fats. If you say Gil addresses this head on, please tell me at what point in the video he addresses this.
If you are vegetarian and don’t have stuff like olive oil you never feel satiated. Olive oil makes me feel so much healthier with my fibromyalgia. People have all kinds of theories, but each persons body is different. Nut oils are in ancient diets in Africa. I will have to go to one of those rich people doctors to get a higher quality test.
I havent watched the whole thing yet but props to your editor for getting all the relevant study pages and graphics up for an hour and a half long video
Him getting frustrated that you have a counter argument/fact/opinion about the things he said was very telling. I don't trust someone completely when they can't keep an open mind.
Definitely do more of these potentially revolutionary approaches. This subject still has me captivated. I take the "damage to endothelial cells" with a pinch of salt, but it still might be a therapeutic way to go, at least maybe certain reductions instead of elimination.
Thanks for this video, I appreciated the respectful exchange of views and the going slightly deeper into topics. I would like to see similar videos in the future too.
I found this to be a really fun and interesting listen!! I really enjoyed your dialogue and I think you have a great way of challenging people respectfully. Yes more doctor interviews sounds great!
Well he walks the walk, looks great amazing for a 90 year old. I have been transitioning to his type of diet and knocked 10 min of my half marathon time. Interesting i have only lost 2 pounds.
I'd say avoiding oil is mainly to maintain certain calorie restrictions. (I know that isn't Esselstyns only intention, but I earnestly think that's where most of the benefit arises). And for people that are older and struggling with intense heart disease probably often due to overeating crap food for so long, I do think Esselstyn's diet is probably better than a medi diet for some people who can follow it (and worse for others that will have a hard time following such a restricted diet). Everyone is different, but I do think in general things effect people quite consistently. For instance my friend eats lots of oil on his mostly WHPBD, and I eat very little. He exercises for hours each day due to his job, and naturally eats small portions. I on the other hand really have to kick my but to do 30m to 60m of exercise each day and I love eating (I eat pretty large portions and usually like having seconds). As a state of reference, if I were to just relax and eat when I want to and as much as I would like, not caring about health and weight and so on, I'd easily eat around 3000 to 3500 calories each day, and I naturally burn like 1800 or so by default without exercise. So for me, cutting down on oil almost entirely (and processed foods with oil), along with processed sugar has really helped me maintain great health. Many people are like me, and just love eating, can eat a lot, and have to control their appetite. For individuals that just have big appetites, this Esselstyn diet is helpful. For people that don't eat large portions and are naturally exercising, this is unnecessarily restrictive, and the medi diets are going to work wonders for their health, obviously. My two cents. Sidenote: I do think the little artery images are showing a reduction of plaque. Just the way physics operates; tube like structures with caking will not show evenness when inflated/dilated. Majority of the images show jagged arteries becoming smooth and this from a simple physics perspective doesn't make sense if there is still plaque caking the edge. So I'm in the camp that is is an obvious reduction in plaque.
Yes so the core summary is : fat is higher in energy compared to proteins and carbs. Which we all knows since forever. So if you want to cut your daily energy intake of course per gram removing fat has the highest impact. But that is a totally different discussion from the issues / benefits from a nutrient say here olive oil.
Thanks indeed!. I am a heart patient in "failure" mode, using a cross between Esselstyn and Ornish.. This plus isosorbide mono has minimized my angina to almost zero. Keen on NO data.. I appreciate your research, as I would like more info, to eat a more varied diet, to see this disease to its knees.. Dr, Esselstyn seems encased in his own bias cacoon.. Drs tend to do that a lot it seems. The adage "If it works don't fix it" spawns laziness of creative energy. Rather, an open receptivity might reveal the true complexity of CAD illness and other varied, even collateral data resources.. Keep up the great work, very much appreciated.!
There’s so much evidence that walnuts promote positive health outcomes. I guess the trade off that he’s seeing is that having very low fat has more benefit than introducing walnuts. It’s interesting for sure. I eat no more than 50g of walnuts but usually around 25g per day. I don’t have a problem with limiting my nut intake.
Esselstyn would claim that the oil in the walnuts is damaging your arteries. There is no scientific evidence of that, so keep eating your walnuts and enjoy. I sure do.
All the saturated fats in those nuts raise cholesterol & make u gain weight. Dr McDougall says to only eat them as an occasional treat or a topping on meals. Notevery day
What I got from dr. Esseltstyn is the importance of eating greens daily. I love the scoop on fish. "Oh the fish are raised in a sewer". But even the wild fish have mercury and dioxide and that can't be doing any good to the body. Let alone to the fish.
I loved this interview, really appreciate the respectful back and forth from both of you. My most important question, caffienated coffee!? Is it damaging? I've heard from other sources (Dr Gregor, etc) that coffee is healthy and beneficial in some aspects. Any thoughts?
I think this was very informative of the scientific process. There is always going to be disagreement. Understanding how science works is a part of this channel that I really enjoy. I also agree with many of the commenters that it is frustrating have so much contradictory information out there. I thought Gil’s summary at the end was helpful.
Well, read his publications, his patients are also doing well under his recommendations. And he’s not on any medications, and neither is his wife who is her 80s and his children who were athletes and are in their 60s and he looks like he is in very good health. He must be doing something right. I know almost no 90 year olds, still involved in their careers, lucid, coherent and and on no medications.
@@mariaespiritu9512 "survivor bias" is a kind of selection bias. By only listening to survivors, such as long lived or those who return from battle, or even the winner of a coin flipping contest, it's tempting to take anything they say as the key to success. But there may be confounders. And not being able to interview those who didn't make it means the conclusions are not generalizeable. For example, what if he said that he and everyone he treated only wore white clothes. Not sharing that there are lots of people who did the same and died young anyway.
@@mariaespiritu9512 There has never been an oldest living person in the world that was a vegan. Some vegetarians, some omnivores, no vegans. Vegans have been around for quite a while. The Seventh Day Adventists in Loma Linda have the largest population of centenarians of any group and a study of their (centenarians) diet had about 15 percent dairy products, and I think eggs. When they did a study of meat eaters, fish eaters, etc, the vegans did very well but also had the lowest bmi and it was pretty much straight bmi for death rate. If you keep it in the normal range, get exercise, and a balanced diet, you'll do fine.
This was an incredible interview. It was great to see your conversation with him about some of the studies which you have gone over on your channel that led me away from strict adherence to his diet. I struggled to stay on it after 6 months and started cheating. Then I found you and returned olive oil and fish to my diet. I now also include free range, hormone free, skinless chicken breasts once a week so I can maintain adherence. The olive oil was a god send given how much salad I eat. 😂😂
It doesn't matter if there salted or not. I can easily not eat too many. It's actually difficult for me to eat them at all since I feel better with no overt fats. More than an ounce of nuts would be very hard for me to eat without being paid a lot of money.
Nah this isn’t accurate, you most likely only think this because you’ve never fully removed salt from your diet for an extended period of time. I’ve been on a zero added salt diet for about 10 months now, unsalted nuts ARE addictive and very easy to overeat in this context too.
I am 63 from Mediterranean region we thrive on olive oil . when I do my HIT my heart pump 180/203 bpm . a doc was impressed and says you cannot get higher than 160 max . thanks doc moderation is key
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
"What do you do, read journals all day?" Why, yes. And the synthesis of medical information that produces -- together with the example of being open minded to evolving research study results --- is enormously valuable to your subscribers. Great video, thanks.
That's why I subscribe to the channel. Gil doesn't preach his lifestyle.
Absolutely love, Dr. Esselen and the fact that he is still active and caring into his 90s says a lot for that man. Thank you for taking the time to interview him. We owe you both much respect.
Ugh, so many RUclips doctors with different opinions and most claim studies support them. And trying to find a good local doctor is hit or miss because you're somewhat dependent on your health insurance, unless you can afford to try multiple doctors until you find a good one. I'm becoming of the view that the best health advice is no processed foods, exercise and maintain a healthy weight.
No animal products and I agree that our healthcare system is garbage. Doctors don’t study nutrition or how to prevent anything.
Yea at least everybody seems to agree on your last points (I would add good sleep also)
@@daleg9355 You sound like the type of person dismissing canola oil, in spite of its proven health benefits, because "reeeeeeeeee! they use chemicals when refining it reeeeeeeeee! "
I noticed the same and what I think is it is mostly about a healthy weight and maybe avoid drinking. I did eat mostly carbs. My bloodwork and health, blood pressure, are perfect. It seems that everyone else who has gained weight for a long time are not as healthy, they have high blood pressure, waking up multiple times to go to the bathroom, swallowing issues, etc. I believe the key is staying skinny.
I would also add try eating organic if possible. Find your local farmers market.
This was great. From my personal experience olive oil and the mediterranian diet did nothing for me. I followed it religiously snd had a stroke at 61 with plack build up in areteries. Today I am near 66 and have pretty much adhered to a Dr Esseltyn style diet. I was not supposed to survive 3 years let alone live alone. So for me I think it has extended my life and has really helped me.
Olive oil has a lot of calories along with most of the things he forbids. It's nice it works for you, but the reality is that any diet that keeps you in the normal bmi range and you get enough exercise will probably give the same results. People argue against the keto diet, but practitioners always have a reduction of blood pressure, which indicates better blood flow through the arteries. My brother is on this diet and just had a clot in his heart. Too many years of sweets and fats. I use a small amount of olive oil for cooking. Olives have been eaten for thousands of years.
in my case and my brothers, was the opposite; lost two of them following this, and another had a heart attack and other a by pass, y 2 stents 20 years ago and open new aortic valve; but before surgery i eliminated 6 of 8 medications with good fats, no sugar or carbs, plenty of greens and nuts, but the best was fasting.....
@@nonicosio thanks for that. I am glad it is working out for you. So your brothers followed exactly the program outlined by Dr Esseltyn.
Followed it religiously for how long?
@@napnap609 for nearly a decade
Sorry Dr E....olive oil is in my Sicilian blood. We all live long into our 90's in my family.
The objective of his work is to reverse a terminal diagnosis. For those who have more than enough fat already present in their bodies.
@@hardcoreherbivore4730 sounds to me that the guy is stuck in the 60s/70s, when the bad thing was oils
I am not going to be eating less pure olive oil. It doesn't cause heart disease
He wants us to eat plants. Olives ARE a plant
I'd really love to (finally) see a conversation between you and Dr Michael Greger!
This! :D
Me too
That would be great!
Two dudes who read other people's research....
My favourite part of the interview is how he was consistently amazed by how much of a nerd you are. Absolutely lovely
I am extremely cautious if a single person makes such claims.
Good approach, however the world would be a much better place if many had independence of thought also.
However, in this situation, Esseltyne IS NOT the only one with such opinions and conclusions..
@@exwhyz9367 Certainly, but its a minority and hence there is little evidence. If it had solid substance there would be much more people working on it.
178 sick people with 1 cardiac event post 4 years from the clivland clinic is not just one person saying he's mad ideas...
@@danielduesentriebjunior not if there's no advertising/pharmaceutical money in it
Im following this mans advice and as my cardiologist said... "Amazing , amazing results"
His studies are peer reviewed and you might like to check out the Cleveland clinic.. he mentions his caution about oils because people tend to use too much.. i use a little virgin cold pressed oil, i even allowed myself a biscuit as a treat or square of dark chocolate and stayed on the stress test thread mill for 18.5 min and i know that i can get much fitter.
His advice is super tough.. best way to look at it, this was the way past generations ate.
2 and half years ago I ended up in hospital with crippling angina at 57 years old. I was booked in for a stent and told to take 80mgr of statins, a beta blocker, and a blood thinner. I went on Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's whole food plant-based diet and within 3 weeks my LDL halved and the chest pain got way less. By 3 months I had zero pain. Today at 60 I run 5 km easily and MTB, Tramp, and Kayak fish catching fish for everyone but me. That was all the proof I needed. I never got the stent or took any of the meds. My BP is 115 / 75, my LP(a) is 6 and my APOB went from 141 and is now 87 and drops lower every time I test it. My HS CRP is very very low. Thats all I need to know.
@@NattyNarwhaal exactly, he probably lost a lot of weight and that is what happens on a vegan diet. I came to the conclusion that most things come down to weight and weight gain. It seems your body runs out of fat storage and then your body goes downhill fast.
Good to hear 👍🏿
If you don’t mind answering, what diet were you on before discovering Esselstyn’s diet?
Be happy because you discovered dr Esselstyn before to get any stent or bypass
I am also 57 old , I got a stent 3,5 years ago and after 3 months later I discovered dr Esselstyn , then I followed his diet until today without any drugs, just b12 and d3 2 times per week. But strictly without any oil or any nut , so far I am fine.. I don’t know tomorrow
Please share your diet!
My friend, you have the true mind of a scientist. Thank you for your channel and your work
Dr. Esselstyn is a saint.
I reversed my father's heart disease and blocked arteries employing his diet. I am 76 years young and by following his program have energy of a 20 year old man. God bless him ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Who are the longest living populations in the world ? Vegans 👍
How did you measure plaque in the arteries?
@@chrisharwood5456 vegans without processed foods
Amen
This was a very well done interview. I love the way you discuss science with others and how you are able to agree to disagree without being disagreeable or attacking the other person or their motives. I am glad so many others have found this fantastic channel and getting the benefits of your efforts.
Agreed! I really admire Gil’s respectful and extremely intelligent approach.
Gil was so respectful to Dr E. (at almost 91 years old) despite not being able to get his key point across about doing randomized studies to get more conclusive evidence for Dr E’s program-but his mind was made up and so I appreciate Gil’s respectful patience throughout this discussion! I love both Drs! Dr E is a legend and so sharp -his mind is wonderfully fluid and that was amazing to see! ….and Gil is a medical legend in the making!❤
@@iamkerenlouise The thing that really sets this channel apart is its focus on evidence. I think this interview was detremential to that.
❤
@iamkerenlouise On the contrary, Dr E agreed that more studies should be done but what do you do until that happens? The best you can do is what you DO know has shown to work … especially when NO ONE Dies. 99% don’t have any adverse events but compliance is a real issue.
You have to cherry pick info and pray for discernment. Subed
@@alexanderzubar9593 Some of the people posting here seem unaware of the research Dr. E and others in the field (Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. T. Colin Campbell). Compliance does become a challenge without a very good support system. Often family and friends think WFPB is extreme and “everything in moderation” would have the same effect (making it even more difficult for a person to remain WFPB); unfortunately when heart disease threatens a person’s livlihood or life, WFPB is the least invasive, least expensive and proven way to mitigate and reverse heart disease.
When a 90 year old person is able to give coherent and reasoned answers, we know he has done something great with his diet.
Maybe - but there's coherent 90 year olds who drank, smoked, and/or eat meat. A case study of one doesn't do or mean much.
Sure... but there are other 90 year olds who broke all the rules.
Basically, it's a combination of environment and genetics plus diet, but not all diets work for everyone. 🤓
Also, don't forget
People are living this long
Since public smoking isn't popular
People are living into triple digits
They're like what 60 used to be
@@mattg7977
The only excuse for that, is if that person has an alkaline type body
IMO he's just dogmatic and clinging on to reasoning that has a shaky foundation. I've seen 100yo that are in better shape. Take Dr. John Scharffenberg for example. It seems like he slurs his speech and his voice sounds weak. Maybe it's just something temporary, but his condition does not instill confidence in his diet. Common sense whole food plant based. Avoid processed grains and sugar and stay away from concentrated sources of saturated fats. No need to go overboard.
This was an amazing interview..
Esselstyn is LEGENDARY!!!
the china was amazing showing that two countries can come together for a common good humanity..
Thank you! You're one of my favorite RUclips doctors. You don't try to sell us anything. I look forward to more of your interviews with other Docs.
It's important to note that Dr. Esselstyn's approach is specifically designed to reverse individuals with chronic conditions, as these are the patients he encounters. He aims to eliminate even the smallest contributors to their diseases, which is why his dietary recommendations may come across as quite rigid.
I really liked the tone of the interview. I liked even more the final summary you made, Gil. Always a step back and a honnest look at scientific evidence.
Yes, please, Gil, do more of this type of interview. Thank you.
No dont give a platform to loonies
Thank you for doing an interview that is not just supporting your views on olive oil. I would appreciate more interviews with different views that are science based on the issue olive oil. Keep up the good work!
I loved how objective and open you are! This was a GREAT video!
Gil, I completely agree with your conclusions, excellent feedback and that’s coming from a previous very strict Dr. E patient since 2018, but since 2022 after being on Dr. E’s very strict diet, I questioned being so cold all the time, not feeling so good and after very careful research. I began adding 15g of Organic Walnuts, 1 tablespoon of Hemp Hearts, Black Coffee, Super high quality Omega 3 supplement, & 1/2 of an avocado every day day after being on Dr. E’s diet for 4 years without those items.
The results for me after adding those items back into my diet were amazingly very positive so far!
I feel much better today, am not ice cold anymore, added back on 10 of the 40 pounds I lost and do not look as emaciated,
As you explained, there needs to be more studies.
Am I afraid that these additions could be a mistake, yes of course; I can only hope that I changed my diet for the better? Dr. E is very convincing and would scold me to no end if he knew!!
JasonCurrentlyinFlorida
Everyone is going to die, better to live 10 years less filling well and with energy that living longer but in low energy is a tread-of is your choice, mine is clear I would eat avocados EVO and nuts, I like to eat and with out fat eating is disgusting.
That is a reasonable amount of fat in a diet. There is a margin room for individual needs and other factors, in my experience and I think data on longevity populations show this margin for a certain amount of fat, but certainly not the standard amount neither what is considered low fat by medical staff.
I have the same problem, cold all the time and lost 4kg following the Mastering Diabetes diet: low fat WF PBD...
believe in your body. I made the same experience. Our bodies clearly need foods like nuts and (good) oils.
@@alexandrejuve1305 Yes my feeling exactly the Dr. Esselstyn is probably something someone who has serious life-threatening cardiovascular disease to go to as a last resort. But I think there is a middle ground -- if someone told me that I could live 5 years longer if I only ate sawdust I would probably opt for eating good food and dying 5 years sooner! LOL
Thanks Gil, I was so looking forward to this!
Love your work mate!
Wow! Easily one of the top videos I’ve viewed even by the extremely high standards Dr. Gil sets. Loved listening to two of the most knowledgeable people discussing causes and possible solutions to the epidemic of heart disease we now have. Dr. Gil, by his extensive fact-based research and preparation for his interviews does something I haven’t yet found from any other source. Dr. Esselstyn is amazing. The lack of defensiveness in both of these people is so admirable and extremely hard to find.
This couldn't have come at a better time for us. Dad just got discharged from the hospital after suffering a widowmaker heart attack, we're very lucky to have him with us right now. I've been absorbing all of this information and we now have dad on a WFPB diet (and slowly trying to convert the rest of us too). While we can't prove Dr. Esselstyn's explanation about nitric oxide with 100% certainty it is hard to argue with the outcome data, which is more important than the underlying mechanism anyway.
Don't forget to have your dad on a significant statin. I say that because Dr. Esselstyne's study participants were almost ALL on a statin along with his diet. Both his initial group of 28 patients as well as the 198 in the more recent study. Can't leave out such a important factor if you are trying to duplicate his favorable results.
BTW, while greens are a very important component of his diet, there is scant evidence that chewing those greens 6 times a day is any more beneficial that just eating them in one or two meals a day.
Carnivore diet gave me heart attack. Wfpb diet saved my life
The stuff on nitric oxide is not in question the role of NO has been OVERWHELMINGLY confirmed by many thousands of medical studies since it was identified as the mysterious "endothelial relaxation factor" in the late 1980s -- the three scientists were awarded the Nobel Prize in medicine for that discovery about a decade later.
Very detailed and meticulous interview. Interviewer was equally hardworking. I enjoyed the conversation in one go. So interesting.
REALLY awesome interview. 👏I think your wrap-up is a must-watch for everyone.
(Btw, I have two forms of serious heart disease which are probably hardly affected by food-like having rheumatic fever as a child-so I'm a bit reserved about the paper tiger thing...but I get it, he's talking about plaque.)
Hi Chris, I enjoy your videos.
Hi Chris. Love your work mate. I have been following you with great interest. Awesome work.
🎯
This is quite controversial:in many places in Sardegna and South Italy there are many elderly living a good life and eating evo since they were born. No vegan/vegetarian either.
They have advanced heart disease and do not live a very stressful or vigorous life
@@billdublewhopper3064 many of them have a cac score of 0
@@ArgoBeats how would you know "many" of them? How many 80 and 90 year olds have a CAC score of zero. Don't be absurd.
@@billdublewhopper3064 care to cite your facts? Or, is this an opinion?
Show me some sources and data. I don't see a reason to believe a comment that uses weasel words like many.
Keep doing this type of interview and keep bringing up oppositional views with your brand of research. It helps everyone with an open mind.✌️
Thank you so much Gil for doing this. I’m 2 years into my post 1000plus calcium index score discovery. The trio of Dr Greggor, Essylstin, and you are where I look for evidence based solutions, with you being far and away the most rigorous
Out of curiosity (and if you don't mind)...your age? After your research, have you gone whole food plant based or done something else to try and slow the calcium progression?
@@mattg7977 Glad to let you know. Age 61. At age 57 I weighed 265, a steady climb to that over 30 years from 180 to 190 to 200, etc.. Finally decided to do something about it. Starting walking and watching what I ate. About 9 months later I was down to 190. During that journey, I ‘fell for’ the low carb thing, at least for the supposed health benefits. Eventually decided to get the Calcium Index Score (no symptoms, had to actually insist to get it and pay out of pocket). 1000+. Ugh. Started more rigorous research. Could go on for hours about that journey. Started eating even more healthy, more exercise, dropped to my high school weight of 170. Low Fat, high protein, anabolic style eating. Feeling great, but still worried. Eventually went whole food plant based, loving it. The thing that cinched it for me was (too much info alert) is I had still been suffering from erectile dysfunction even with all the other health improvements. After switching to WFPB, that completely was cured. I also was able to finally get off the last of my blood pressure meds. I currently take a low dose statin (5mg) as my only med, I keep my LDL below 60. Anyway, so many resources out there to make WFPB easy to do and tasty. I do eat small amounts of nuts, seeds, avocado, etc. I do Dr Gregory’s daily dozen. I follow the American heart association reco to keep any saturated fat at or below 5 percent daily calories. I don’t “worry” about seed oils, I just don’t use much of it to keep wasted calories from creeping in.
Add Plant Chompers to your list. Good stuff
@@marcusvaldeslove plant chompers
@@marcusvaldes absolutely!
I watched the whole thing. Definitely worth the time. I appreciated Gil respectfully pushing back. I see Dr. Esselstyn as a wealth of knowledge, with one setback of still having grown a bit stubborn to see new data, and became rather set in his ways in some small ways. The argument "it works" is different from "it's the only way" and "this is optimal". I felt a bit of frustration with Gil where Dr. Esselstyn would still have to be ignoring a lot of other arguments of people having long and productive lifespans on diets with polysaturated fats, rich with fish, some meat as well as plants. At the end of the day, if you have populations that are living well into their 90s and are still agile and happy, the blood tests are only a factor of that and you don't want to ignore the obvious first. Now being over 4 years into a journey of listening to tons of podcasts on health, one big point that seems to rise to the top is these hardcore diets that are limited, one way or another - strict vegetarian, strict carnivore, strict no oil, it's probably not optimal. Biggest thing is getting rid of processed foods - go back to what mother nature makes.
Fantastic content as always. You seem to be the only expert that shows that data. 👍👍
Great! Been anxiously awaiting the full length video.
Beautifully done Gil. A lovely interview, and agreed on your points.
You, Gil, Mic the Vegan, and Chris from Plant Chompers should be a panel discussion group. I love your level headed approach.
This was not an informative interview, in that Esselstyn refuses to acknowledge scientific data that go against the beliefs he holds dear. Most unscientific position. And you showed tremendous restraint and respect. Yes, many oils are unhealthy, such as palm, but many aren't, especially olive and nut. My question is: if we can't get our fat from olive, avocado, canola and nuts, exactly from where are we supposed to get it? Or does Esselstyn think we don't need fat at all? And BTW, to say, we shouldn't eat nuts because we can't control ourselves is downright condescending.
You can easily get fat from fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes alone without any nuts, seeds, avocados, olives, or any oils. I can easily eat 10-30 grams of fat a day without any overt fats.
@Anarcath he is only reporting what he observed as a doctor and type of people he was treating. Now, if he was a pediatrician instead, then he might have provided a different belief on what is the proper diet.
2/3 of the world is overweight or obese. It's from experience that he knows people can't control themselves. His message is sound.
All whole plant food contains fat, carbohydrates and protein. Maybe you should do research before post absurdly
@@billdublewhopper3064 fruits, vegetables and grains don't contain enough fat to sustain the body. Go do your own research before you reply like an idiot.
Thank you for this - I have been waiting for this one! Loved your wrap up at the end - it was spot on 💯
I truly appreciate your balanced approach and ability to highlight differences in thought or opinion without personal attacks. Best nutrition channel out there in my opinion!!
Absolutely brilliant. I have been looking forward to this one. It shows how effective WFPB is fighting back against CAD. It also as usual offers the balance on evidence that there is likely multiple nuances that lead to its success and potentially its flaws. Personally I found it to hard to adhere too. I have significant plaque and I’m nearly 50, a diet that could reverse plaque is what got me looking at Esselstyn and giving it a go. But olive oil and nuts bring some joy ! Joy is also important in life ! I’ve cut out booze and sweets and saturated fats and that’s made a huge difference. My blood cholesterol Levels are all good. My Apob is good and within ranges. BP is all good. I stick to a Mediterranean diet but with no red meat at all. Anyways many different genetics that require multiple approaches.
Thanks for the podcast !!
rvyntshubfwvu4fhu.blogspot.com/2024/09/healthy-eating-on-budget-tips-for.html
Do you eat any type of meat
What about bread
Remember he deals with patients often with multiple heart interventions, including multiple bypass surgeries, who have been given no more options with medical intervention and whose bypasses have gotten clotted or other failures.
The man is completley deluded and should be in a rest home.
This was top notch content. Gil was top class and he was so prepared to even the obscure references and studies that Dr. E might reference. Gil was there to make sure those studies were analyzed rigorously.
It was also amazing to see how this was never a « gotcha » kind of interview where Gil would refute him, as he easily could have (Dr. E kept referring to very low quality evidences like anecdotes, population, animal studies - which we’ve learned from Gil are much below RCTs), but instead he was respectful and ultimately had the disposition of someone just trying to get to the truth of the matter. Gil had his studies that supported unsaturated fats actually being heart healthy and even olive oil, and Dr E didn’t really have much evidence apart from his patients.
Again, I learned so much, and obviously Dr E is doing something right being as intellectually active at his age.
For those that want the specific dietary advice from Esselstyn, see:
41:40 - 43:10
44:15 - 44:45
46:50 - 47:10
Note that Gil asserts that the available evidence does not appear to support his conclusions on all oils and nuts.
GREAT job done by Gil once again - not only does he make these topics interesting to laypeople, but he strikes such a skilled balance in directly disagreeing while remaining respectful. THANK YOU!!
he says not to eat anything animal. i would starve to death
Great job Gil, I like this style of video and would enjoy more of it in the future.
Thanks for doing this interview, Gil! I've been wanting to hear someone challenge Esselstyn on his anti-oil rhetoric for a long time. But ever since he backed out of the debate with Dr Avi - I doubted I'd ever get to see this.
Dr. Esselstyn doesn't strike me as someone who welcomes push back on his claims - So I suspect this discussion is the closest we'll ever get to a 'debate'
It seems to me that the discussions (even this one) jump back and forth between a scenario of "severe heart disease patient" and "average aging person", and the prescription of no fat is assumed to apply to the average person as well. Dr. Esselstyn was vague about this in regards to the average person, not wanting to take a leap towards "it depends". It is a slippery slope, but health markers for some kind of alarm system might be helpful to avoid confusion overall.
If you watch his wife's & daughter's cooking show, you will notice that there is a clear distinction made when using recipes from Dr Esselstyn's book meant for heart patients, and recipes for those folks who are not in that category. For the latter group, they prepare recipes that contain peanut butter and sweeteners for example. When using these recipes, the difference is often pointed out to warn heart patients that this food is not compliant with the Esselstyn diet plan.
Same goes for Rip's Engine 2 food line.
Seemed plenty of healthy discussion. Avi disputed the reversal claims, not sure if Esseltyne used that word, but if the plaque is stabilised then that’s about as good as it gets
@@markjonz Yeah, Esselstyn claims reversal all the time. It's even stated in his papers.
He's what the Stoics refer to as 'Passionately Ideological!'
I first heard of Esselstyn maybe a week before this was posted. Very interesting conversation! I would enjoy more content like this
Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. Dean Ornish were the first two drs to show you can reverse or halt health disease with a low fat whole food plant based diet with no oils.
I had no idea you are in Portugal. Great video. Dr Esselstyn is a great guy! Met him on the Holistic Holiday at Sea cruise. Wonderful family!
Yes Gil do more like these. I am a esselstyn follower and thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I follow you as well and find a lot of answers to my question from all the work you do. Thank you!!
"balance of evidence" love that saying
More of these interviews pls. Very interesting and educational, great many thanks for your time and effort.
Thanks for bringing us this interview Dr Gil and really appreciate your analysis at the end. You were respectful, but responsible in pointing out those ideas promoted by Esselstyn which are not supported by the data.
The average American consumes just one quart of olive oil per year. The Spaniards consume FIVE GALLONS of Extra Virgin Olive Oil per year! Spaniards rank #10 in longevity. Americans rank #55. Please pass the EVO!!! (-:
@@RaveyDavey Spanish also eat alot more beans and vegetables, too.
They also walk everywhere. These kind of single variable statements is exactly why Americans are #55 not just in longevity, but also intelligence
@@uog293 What an imbecilic thing to say. Thank you for sharing. Run on along now…
@@uog293well said,lol!!!!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Best part of this interview was the summarisation at the end, no dogmatism in his summary. Thank you
Thank you for another great video Gil!
This was a great interview! I appreciated that Dr. Esselstyn shared his patient's stories. While such extreme restriction may not be absolutely necessary, I understand why he advocates for it considering he that he has seen how much his patient's have improved when they adhere to it. However, I do think some people can eat 1/4 cup of nuts or less with their oatmeal or as a snack and not go overboard so I don't agree with advocating for NO NUTS just because some people can't control their intake.
It's wonderful that he takes time with each patient and gives them a dietary solution to improve their health when that's what they are seeking. He provides solutions even if they may be difficult to adhere to. It's great that he provides support.
I expect that Esselstyn is much more used to people who interview him just to cheerlead his views, without any challenge. This was an important discussion and we need more of this type of interview which presents science contrary to views which all too often never get directly challenged. Extremely restrictive diets will generally cause significant weight loss, if people can stick with them. All the benefits could be from the weight loss. Without an RCT it is hard to draw many specific conclusions.
Good job of pointing out the areas in which the science supports the data and those areas for which the science does not support the data.
It seems that while Gil is happy to debate with Dr Esselstyn, Dr Esselstyn is not willing to debate with Gil. He only has his own rhetoric from which he will not deviate by one iota. This is unfortunate. I have respect for him and what he has achieved, but a scientific mind must always be open to hearing and debating a counter argument.
I agree. Esselstyn is pretty underwhelming when he is mildly challenged on any point. Gil couldn't have been more respectful and the guy just refused to engage and reminded me more of a politician than a doctor/scientist.
Olive oil can be a healthy addition to your diet, but it's important to be mindful of its calorie content. Many people tend to overuse it. he said many time Dr. Esselstyn’s endorsement of olive oil could lead those at risk for cardiovascular issues to use it excessively. It's true that olive oil can enhance the flavor of foods due to its high calorie density, appealing to our primal instincts to get as much calories you can in one sitting.
35:44 Gil questioned the "strengthen the cap over the plaque" explanation to make you "heart attack proof": Dr. Esselstyn *loved* his "you need to test/measure" counter-argument at 36:43... So he's willing to bend his rhetoric... just a little 😂
Esselstyn stands on his position because that is where the science led him over his professional career and research. I understand why he would not back off of that just to please others. He's the first one to say that if the science shows a different result he would entertain that information - but it doesn't.
I stand with the science.
@@g.e.boroush5176 BRAVOOO EXACTLY. HES HEARD THE TONS FROM OTHERS. BUT HIS HAS THE HIGHEST SAFEST RESULT RATES PERIOD
Dr. Ess is a legend.
In his own mind.
Excellent questions! Keep doing great investigative interviews!
Great video! I support a plant based diet and still disagree with Esselstyn on oil consumption. There's clear evidence that certain oils are heart healthy. It is interesting to see doctors from an older generation and hearing what their viewpoints are from the information they had at the time they were studying all this. They didn't have the internet back then to easily access and share info. Now that new studies are out that can be viewed online by anyone, older retired doctors either don't know much about the internet and what you can find or just don't care and continue to push what they knew back then. Whether or not you agree or disagree with Esselstyn, he was a pioneer in the plant base diet and I'm happy that Gil was open minded to hearing someone that he doesn't 100% agree with.
I guess it depends on the stage one is on. The diet you are going to sustain for decades and decades is not very low fat. Some nuts, some chocolate, even some avocados and coconuts here and there. If it's disease reversal phase that's when cutting fat as much as possible is helpful.
People who search for this information are 100% doing it because of a problem. There is little help to be wishy-washy about their diet and try to please their bad diet habits. Extracted oils are not essential. And I suspect not even close to optimal. Fats on the other hand I had to increase fro 30 gr to 55 gr 😂5o improve TG and cholesterol numbers. All WFPB of course.
If olive oil is not specifically heart healthy, olive oil is hair skin and nails healthy.
Here is a PREDIMED analysis regarding prior nut and seed consumption before assignment to nut and seed intervention, compared to those assigned to EVOO. Hint: the best outcome was in the group with prior nut and seed consumption assigned to the nut and seed group.
Frequency of nut consumption and mortality risk in the PREDIMED nutrition intervention trial (2013, BMC Medicine)
an interesting excerpt:
Figure 1 shows the multivariate adjusted HRs for total mortality by frequency of total nut consumption and intervention group. In the three arms of the trial, individuals who consumed nuts >3 servings per week tended to have a lower risk of mortality than those in the reference category. Subjects in the upper category of nut consumption at baseline allocated to the MedDiet with nuts intervention had a significant reduction in total mortality risk of 63% (95% CI −34% to −78%), while those allocated to the MedDiet with EVOO and the control diet had non-significant reductions of 34% (95% CI −64% to 10%) and 16% (95% CI −52% to 44%), respectively. The interaction between baseline total nut consumption and intervention group was significant, P = 0.019).
@@Jeff-iz9hnI would say it's heart healthy due to the polyphenols.
love that format, please keep going. there are more interesting interview partners out there like Dr. Esselstyn
Very interesting and informative
Thank you
Mic volumes all over the place, easy fix with a compressor. Sorry to be negative, otherwise great conversation & the best nutrition channel out there.
Definitely watch the summary section at the end of the video
Excellent discussion & summarization, thank you Gil !!!!
Been waiting for this! Thanks!!!
this man is a legend
Can't help but think, for some adherents to an ideology, it doesn't really matter what current and contemporary science uncovers, they will still cling to their beliefs no matter what. Esselstyn is one such individual.
Notwithstanding this, there's plenty to commend in his views, pertaining to good dietary protocols, but it's nevertheless mixed in with ideology, dogma and no small degree of intransigence.
Brilliantly interviewed though. Sometimes your facial expressions were very telling, along with pertinent and intelligent questions.
Couldn’t agree more with this comment!
@NutritionMadeSimple Would love to see you interview Dean Ornish!
Michael Greger as well. He definitely has a tendency to over exaggerate health claims when it comes to disease “reversal” and WFPB/vegan diets. Would love to see someone like Gil, who really studies and understands scientific literature, interview him.
I read. I listen. So many Doctors. So many contradictions. I admire Dr. Esselsty. Dr. Campbell. Dr. Oz. Dr. Gundry. Dr. Ornish..... I've read them all. At the end of the day, all I can do is what works for me, and let the cards fall as they may. I know I will die of a heart attack, I almost died with my last one. I just hope I can fend it off as long as possible. I love Gil's videos.
The claim that "Olive Oil is injuring your Arteries" has neither randomized studies nor meta analysis backing it. It's all anecdotal from this guy. This is counter to Gil's prior videos demonstrating to the contrary. If you state there are sporadic studies backing this, I will counter with that such is in opposite to the vast data demonstrating the efficacy of olive oils and other monounsaturated fats. If you say Gil addresses this head on, please tell me at what point in the video he addresses this.
If you are vegetarian and don’t have stuff like olive oil you never feel satiated. Olive oil makes me feel so much healthier with my fibromyalgia. People have all kinds of theories, but each persons body is different. Nut oils are in ancient diets in Africa. I will have to go to one of those rich people doctors to get a higher quality test.
I havent watched the whole thing yet but props to your editor for getting all the relevant study pages and graphics up for an hour and a half long video
Him getting frustrated that you have a counter argument/fact/opinion about the things he said was very telling. I don't trust someone completely when they can't keep an open mind.
Really enjoyed this one!
Great podcast Gil!
Fascinating stuff. Great video. Would love to see more discussions like this.
Definitely do more of these potentially revolutionary approaches. This subject still has me captivated. I take the "damage to endothelial cells" with a pinch of salt, but it still might be a therapeutic way to go, at least maybe certain reductions instead of elimination.
Thanks for this video, I appreciated the respectful exchange of views and the going slightly deeper into topics. I would like to see similar videos in the future too.
I enjoyed the whole interview. It was so informative.
I found this to be a really fun and interesting listen!! I really enjoyed your dialogue and I think you have a great way of challenging people respectfully. Yes more doctor interviews sounds great!
I personally benefited from Dr. Esselstyn.
Perfect summary.
Great interview Gil. How about Dr. Fuhrman and his nutritarian diet? Or is that too similar to Dr. Esselsyn’s?
Well he walks the walk, looks great amazing for a 90 year old. I have been transitioning to his type of diet and knocked 10 min of my half marathon time. Interesting i have only lost 2 pounds.
Thanks! Definitely would like to see more like this.
I wish you could have had this conversation with Dr John McDougall. Damn.
McDougall would've been shouting the fat you eat is the fat you wear😮
@@alpha7ization RIP Dr McDougall
Would love to see Dr Ornish and Dr Greger on your channel.
I'd say avoiding oil is mainly to maintain certain calorie restrictions. (I know that isn't Esselstyns only intention, but I earnestly think that's where most of the benefit arises). And for people that are older and struggling with intense heart disease probably often due to overeating crap food for so long, I do think Esselstyn's diet is probably better than a medi diet for some people who can follow it (and worse for others that will have a hard time following such a restricted diet).
Everyone is different, but I do think in general things effect people quite consistently. For instance my friend eats lots of oil on his mostly WHPBD, and I eat very little. He exercises for hours each day due to his job, and naturally eats small portions. I on the other hand really have to kick my but to do 30m to 60m of exercise each day and I love eating (I eat pretty large portions and usually like having seconds). As a state of reference, if I were to just relax and eat when I want to and as much as I would like, not caring about health and weight and so on, I'd easily eat around 3000 to 3500 calories each day, and I naturally burn like 1800 or so by default without exercise. So for me, cutting down on oil almost entirely (and processed foods with oil), along with processed sugar has really helped me maintain great health.
Many people are like me, and just love eating, can eat a lot, and have to control their appetite. For individuals that just have big appetites, this Esselstyn diet is helpful. For people that don't eat large portions and are naturally exercising, this is unnecessarily restrictive, and the medi diets are going to work wonders for their health, obviously. My two cents.
Sidenote: I do think the little artery images are showing a reduction of plaque. Just the way physics operates; tube like structures with caking will not show evenness when inflated/dilated. Majority of the images show jagged arteries becoming smooth and this from a simple physics perspective doesn't make sense if there is still plaque caking the edge. So I'm in the camp that is is an obvious reduction in plaque.
Yes so the core summary is : fat is higher in energy compared to proteins and carbs. Which we all knows since forever. So if you want to cut your daily energy intake of course per gram removing fat has the highest impact.
But that is a totally different discussion from the issues / benefits from a nutrient say here olive oil.
Brilliant! Thank you -especially for your views at the end.
Don't trust anyone who tells you Olive oil is bad
It's not good.
He's fxxxed!
Thanks indeed!. I am a heart patient in "failure" mode, using a cross between Esselstyn and Ornish.. This plus isosorbide mono has minimized my angina to almost zero. Keen on NO data.. I appreciate your research, as I would like more info, to eat a more varied diet, to see this disease to its knees.. Dr, Esselstyn seems encased in his own bias cacoon.. Drs tend to do that a lot it seems. The adage "If it works don't fix it" spawns laziness of creative energy. Rather, an open receptivity might reveal the true complexity of CAD illness and other varied, even collateral data resources.. Keep up the great work, very much appreciated.!
There’s so much evidence that walnuts promote positive health outcomes. I guess the trade off that he’s seeing is that having very low fat has more benefit than introducing walnuts. It’s interesting for sure. I eat no more than 50g of walnuts but usually around 25g per day. I don’t have a problem with limiting my nut intake.
Esselstyn would claim that the oil in the walnuts is damaging your arteries. There is no scientific evidence of that, so keep eating your walnuts and enjoy. I sure do.
I think it’s hard to eat too many walnuts. lol.
It's not the walnuts. It's the plants
All the saturated fats in those nuts raise cholesterol & make u gain weight. Dr McDougall says to only eat them as an occasional treat or a topping on meals. Notevery day
Do not base your decision for the opinion a doctor. The vast majority of literatura says that nuts are good specially if you take only 25g.
LOVED IT! do it with michael gregger / neal bernard and so on
What I got from dr. Esseltstyn is the importance of eating greens daily. I love the scoop on fish. "Oh the fish are raised in a sewer". But even the wild fish have mercury and dioxide and that can't be doing any good to the body.
Let alone to the fish.
I loved this interview, really appreciate the respectful back and forth from both of you. My most important question, caffienated coffee!? Is it damaging? I've heard from other sources (Dr Gregor, etc) that coffee is healthy and beneficial in some aspects. Any thoughts?
What is the mechanism and posted evidence for endothelial damage by all of these foods?
I think this was very informative of the scientific process. There is always going to be disagreement. Understanding how science works is a part of this channel that I really enjoy. I also agree with many of the commenters that it is frustrating have so much contradictory information out there. I thought Gil’s summary at the end was helpful.
For people saying "he's that old, he must be doing something right" beware of survivor bias.
Well, read his publications, his patients are also doing well under his recommendations. And he’s not on any medications, and neither is his wife who is her 80s and his children who were athletes and are in their 60s and he looks like he is in very good health. He must be doing something right. I know almost no 90 year olds, still involved in their careers, lucid, coherent and and on no medications.
@@mariaespiritu9512 "survivor bias" is a kind of selection bias. By only listening to survivors, such as long lived or those who return from battle, or even the winner of a coin flipping contest, it's tempting to take anything they say as the key to success.
But there may be confounders. And not being able to interview those who didn't make it means the conclusions are not generalizeable.
For example, what if he said that he and everyone he treated only wore white clothes. Not sharing that there are lots of people who did the same and died young anyway.
@@mariaespiritu9512 EXACTLY.
@@mariaespiritu9512 There has never been an oldest living person in the world that was a vegan. Some vegetarians, some omnivores, no vegans. Vegans have been around for quite a while. The Seventh Day Adventists in Loma Linda have the largest population of centenarians of any group and a study of their (centenarians) diet had about 15 percent dairy products, and I think eggs. When they did a study of meat eaters, fish eaters, etc, the vegans did very well but also had the lowest bmi and it was pretty much straight bmi for death rate. If you keep it in the normal range, get exercise, and a balanced diet, you'll do fine.
T.Colin campbell is 90 as well.
This was an incredible interview. It was great to see your conversation with him about some of the studies which you have gone over on your channel that led me away from strict adherence to his diet. I struggled to stay on it after 6 months and started cheating. Then I found you and returned olive oil and fish to my diet. I now also include free range, hormone free, skinless chicken breasts once a week so I can maintain adherence. The olive oil was a god send given how much salad I eat. 😂😂
If you don't salt nuts then you don't seem to over indulge in them.
It's better to eat nuts unsalted anyway, and with no added oils.
It's not that hard to control raw nuts with no added sugar salt or oil/fat
I think it was Joel Fuhrman who said that he allows nuts because of the benefits and avoiding the dangers of low fat.
It doesn't matter if there salted or not. I can easily not eat too many. It's actually difficult for me to eat them at all since I feel better with no overt fats. More than an ounce of nuts would be very hard for me to eat without being paid a lot of money.
Nah this isn’t accurate, you most likely only think this because you’ve never fully removed salt from your diet for an extended period of time. I’ve been on a zero added salt diet for about 10 months now, unsalted nuts ARE addictive and very easy to overeat in this context too.
I am 63 from Mediterranean region we thrive on olive oil . when I do my HIT my heart pump 180/203 bpm . a doc was impressed and says you cannot get higher than 160 max . thanks doc moderation is key
YES please Gil! Thanks so much for all you do.
Yes, please. More contoversy explored. I appreciate your approach, adherence to evidence, and your tenacity.
Brian Johnson couldn't disagree more about the olive oil and the nuts.
😅
This guys is 💯 correct.!