The Rebels Kind of Suck (Failed Democracy, Nepotism and More) - Star Wars Lore
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2021
- The Rebel Alliance and the New Republic kind of suck, in some ways nearly as bad as the Empire, and there's not really anybody doing anything about it. I'll cover that and more on today's Star Wars Legends Lore video.
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Rebellion: We want to replace the Empire.
Everyone: With what?
Rebellion: .... WE want to replace the Empire!
Despite the fact that the formation of the Empire was perfectly legal according to Republic Law and that the Delegation of the Two Thousand was literally 10 people who were pacifists and didnt like the fact that Palpatine was in charge.
You cannot prove any bit of Palpatine's manipulation to any court. So from a purely legal standpoint, everything Palpatine did was legal.
@@npswm1314 I know all these rebel sympathizers never had a family member blown up by rebels
Something to be learned about the nature of rebellions/revolutions here.
@Félix Berbakow true, but you can't deny the Rebels often operated in a way that put civilians in harms way. Ignoring Tarken and a few extreme examples, most Imperals were just doing what they thought or were told was right. Random tech in the center of the DS may have never even found out they blew up a planet before he died.
@@npswm1314 or if it wasn't, he would make it legal
This actually makes Garm Bel Iblis' point even stronger. He and his Rebel cell broke away from the Alliance because he felt Mon Mothma was just another dictator who wanted Palpatine's political power. I don't think Mothma's that actually power hungry, but it is still interesting.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. She may have had good intentions to begin with, but power often changes people, and not for the better.
That was an arc that I really liked in the Thrawn trilogy where Garm explained to Leia that Mon Mothma not only didn't consolidate power intentionally but that she didn't actually want it. Rather, she felt responsible for the lives of everyone below her and was unwilling to trust anyone else with the responsibility. It's the epitome of a benevolent dictatorship and it's something that she was forced to face and at least make a token gesture of delegating authority to get Garm back on board. (The fact that he stayed suggests that she made more sweeping changes behind the scenes).
I remember Bel Iblis explaining in one of the Thrawn Books that it’s not that she wanted to have absolute power over the Republic, but rather she recognized the fragile state the New Republic was in and was reluctant to trust others with important tasks (One exception being Leia)
@@dashsocur considering what was happening during those days, I think that was the better alternative to keep the NR together
I came here to say exactly this! The Corellian Treaty isn't mentioned much :)
When your faction is defined solely or largely by what it is AGAINST, winning can be a minefield.
It's easy to unite people against a common enemy, but when that enemy is gone, who will replace them?
World War II in a nutshell.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
@@JoeBLOWFHB ? Is that a deez nuts joke or something like that? I don’t get it
@@11shiroineko At a NASCAR race the crowd chanted "fuck joe biden" one of the staff claimed they were shouting "let's go brandon"
The biggest issue with the Rebellion was always that there were real reasons to want the old Republic replaced with something else. The Clone Wars were all about that, even if Palpatine was playing both sides.
There were true believers in the CIS that fel the Republic was no longer a good thing.
Its ironic, considering the galaxy was more stable and a safer place to live under the Empire than it was under the Republic. Dangerous freedom is far more preferable to comfortable subjugation imo tho
If the republic wasn't so broken and corrupt there wouldn't be need for an empire. Palpatine played every one becouse they were to currupt to care about other then them self. Corusant a a good example if that. A city wide planed were the rich lives in the clouds and the poor in darkness. How many people were borne and died whitout ever seeing the sky?? There failure was right under there nose all the time!
@@candlestyx8517The thing is, the empire wasn't safer, it was a bad life under a fascistic autocracy. It was a stable dystopia.
Whereas the republic was less stable on the galactic scale, but generally safer for the average person, if not particularly bearable.
The CIS was right.
@@deriznohappehquite
Unironically yes, they wanted to secede from a clearly dying and corrupt Republic. A largely peaceful balkanization of the republic would have been the most likely outcome without Papa Palpatine's manipulations.
Palpatine, who's rise to power is entirely pinned on the clone wars happening and "not letting this republic, which as stood for a thousand years, split in two".
I like these “flaws” whether they are intentional or not. They make the SWU feel more alive.
I agree it makes things feel more natural.
It demystifies and cheapens the story. Makes it less grand
@@Arander92 Not really, it just makes things better really.
@@jaydenc367 it’s doesn’t make it better or worse. Just more or less enjoyable for each of us. I hate it. Lol.
@@Moshuun It honestly does make it better. Well I like it lol.
“Blowing up planets is not something good guys do”
Ripley (from the Alien franchise)”Nuke the entire site from orbit- - it’s the only way to be sure”
Laughs in orange bounty hunter.
@@marrqi7wini54 for the record. I love ECK like crazy and also I know he was a lawyer (is that right, or am I making that up? Lol) so I like getting a little pedantic on his page sometimes 🤩😇🙏🏼
Enders Game
Ripley was proposing blowing up Hadley's Hope only, not the entire body of LV-426.
@@kjhuang for sure for sure. I’m just playing around. Like I said, I’m a huge fan of Eck 🤩
I wouldn't call the alliance a dictatorship, it's closer to a military junta
Had to look up the word junta. A form of govement in which a politial group that seizes power through miltary force maintains political power as they see fit.
It sounds like the diffrence between a junta and a dictatorship is time. Once power is passed on by the dictator it is no longer a dictatorship. If he passes it on to an heir it a monarchy. If it is passed on to a member of the rulling group it is a junta. If the person is elected it is a democracy, if done by the people, or a republic if done by people who represent the people.
I’d thought so too, until watching the whole video made me realize “maybe “dictatorship” wasn’t actually so far off the mark… 😬”
A dictatorship is just the orginzation forcefully taking control from a government. Nazis were not dictators of Germany, they were dictators of everyone else. America was a dictatorship until we elected a president under the articles.
Monarchies, Junta, Democracy, Republics, are all forms of goverment. I would say theocracy, pletocracies are sub sets of junta as they trade power with in the same party or group.
@@logannichols5848 From What I understand a military junta is usually temporary. A MJ usually comes about when a previous government had to be disposed of, and the military, the general and commanding officers. Fill the role of government can be decided upon. That doesn't mean an MJ HAS to be temporary though. But most historical examples where. Its more of an Oligarchy than a true Dictatorship. But you could argue one political party controlling everything is just as bad.
@@flyinggothicsheer1346 it is a term that was unknown to me before this post. So I googled it and the example they gave is the spanish goverment, which has been in place since Franco.
They should have just saved the time and money and resurrected a true leader. As a great man once said:
"I love democracy, I love the New Republic."
This video is a perfect segue for an introduction to my story...
Here is how Star Wars can be saved with A NEW WAY (and a MANDATORY PUBLIC APOLOGY to the FANDOM).
This lifelong fan's video contains the first 45 minutes of a screenplay that will not only save the franchise and bring the FANS back but also subtly and mercilessly trolls woman child and man hating feminist Kathleen Kennedy - AT THE SAME TIME - turning her "Mary Sue Trilogy" into just the daydreams/force visions of a little girl with a dark past.
Lucasfilm... to paraphrase... "Use my screenplay... I beg you".
PART I - ruclips.net/video/Blgk19TCHFE/видео.html
PART II - ruclips.net/video/QknixbTzqwQ/видео.html
PART III - ruclips.net/video/pDFQaztZHEI/видео.html
You were a genocidal maniac obsessed only with your own power. Your apprentice would have been a better Emperor
@@ZiaAnnouncer stop spamming.
@@DavidbarZeus1 That can’t be, he loves democracy!
The senate himself 😳
I wish the Star Wars sequels started on this point. Revolution is easy, but rebuilding damage societies and institutions proves more difficult.
Yeah, as opposed to just Rebels vs Empire again.
@@boundlessaether392 the problem is that would require JJ to have a creative thought in his brain outside of "mystery box" and "nostalgia but bigger"
Also there should be a more sensible Imperial Remnant. Or multiple remnants.
Also it would be boring as fuck. Because seeing how a political identity rebuild itself hardly makes for an entertaining blockbuster.
@@pieterrogge1970 Eh political thrillers could be good - could even have some action that’s orchestrated by corrupt elements of the new political system
“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
The ST in a nutshell
This comment has layers. I like that.
Just shows the worthlessness of 7-9 so get rid of it.
Ngl, this sounds like something Thrawn would say
@@paulsteinhauser434 why? I’m thinking if maybe we could get rid of episodes 1,2,8, and 9, and simply rework them. Due to the first and last two movies being hated.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 7-9 had nothing to bring to the table. Heck even the planets don't exist on the map.1-6 had substance in it.
Sadly that's not an uncommon thing, a new government becoming exactly what they'd fought so hard to change.
It also does not help that the New Republic was starting from scratch, whereas Palpatine molded the Galactic Republic into the Galactic Empire over several years.
This video is a perfect segue for an introduction to my story...
Here is how Star Wars can be saved with A NEW WAY (and a MANDATORY PUBLIC APOLOGY to the FANDOM).
This lifelong fan's video contains the first 45 minutes of a screenplay that will not only save the franchise and bring the FANS back but also subtly and mercilessly trolls woman child and man hating feminist Kathleen Kennedy - AT THE SAME TIME - turning her "Mary Sue Trilogy" into just the daydreams/force visions of a little girl with a dark past.
Lucasfilm... to paraphrase... "Use my screenplay... I beg you".
PART I - ruclips.net/video/Blgk19TCHFE/видео.html
PART II - ruclips.net/video/QknixbTzqwQ/видео.html
PART III - ruclips.net/video/pDFQaztZHEI/видео.html
Many people enter politics full of noble ideals. They'll fix the problems, they'll change the world, they believe they aren't naive - they don't seriously expect to build perfect utopia - but they're firmly convinced that with strong goals and hard work they can gradually, inevitably make things a little better.
Then they get a sniff of real politics and real power. And things just keep getting worse.
That’s because leaders of rebellions are usually pretentious closet dictators.
It either takes some great people or something above to make a real difference. Keep in mind George Washington was offered to be king, but refused.
_"An alliance united by hatred is a fractured one at best"_ - Kreia
Yeeeeeees!
The thing is the Rebel Alliance was not a traditional government that answered to a civilian population but rather a stateless faction made up of individuals who were in opposition to the rule of Emperor Palpatine and his empire. This was the real reason why they did not practice democracy despite their paramount goal to restore a democratic-republican form of government to the galaxy. Because as rebels they were not managing the affairs of the the galaxy's population. But once they took power that was a different story.
But even then they sucked so much ass at it that a bootleg version of Palpatine's Empire was able to easily take control and make another Death Star.
@@iamsinistar8971 that shit only happened because the sequel writers were lazy
@@HufflepuffBaseball42313 True but i doubt they would've been any better with good writers either. Hell the only reason they won in the original trilogy was because of Luke Skywalker and plot armor. Especially with the battle of Endor.
@@iamsinistar8971 It was mostly plot armor. Why would the death of Vader and Palpatine bring the end of a galactic government. That's be like the death of the president and vice president resulting in the destruction of the US government.
Not saying the death of Palpatine and Vader isn't important, just that in real life the war would be far from over. And the rebles would be worried about a counter strike gone immediately into hiding, not partying.
@@whatsup2318 Exactly! Plus there's like countless Imperial fleets and armies across the galaxy! Why would they just immediatly disband and surrender when they could just pull a Three Kingdoms and become a warlord fighting for The Imperial Throne?!
Don't forget Eck how in the Hand of Thrawn duology the current Chief of State Ponc Gavrisom literally states that his sole intentions for being Chief of State is to hold the Office down for Leia while she takes a break and in 21 ABY he literally resigns and gives the position to Leia when she feels like being a politician again, a literal Putin-esque Power Move. How the hell is it that Palpatine with emergency powers is more Democratic than the New Republic?
Because Palpatine had to work inside a system he didn't build from the ground up. The Rebels literally constructed the new "democracy" in the exact fashion they wanted it to function, which apparently was built around keeping power in a family of "trusted" individuals. The moment someone outside that family takes power, the galaxy burns under outside invaders and the government collapses.
This video is a perfect segue for an introduction to my story...
Here is how Star Wars can be saved with A NEW WAY (and a MANDATORY PUBLIC APOLOGY to the FANDOM).
This lifelong fan's video contains the first 45 minutes of a screenplay that will not only save the franchise and bring the FANS back but also subtly and mercilessly trolls woman child and man hating feminist Kathleen Kennedy - AT THE SAME TIME - turning her "Mary Sue Trilogy" into just the daydreams/force visions of a little girl with a dark past.
Lucasfilm... to paraphrase... "Use my screenplay... I beg you".
PART I - ruclips.net/video/Blgk19TCHFE/видео.html
PART II - ruclips.net/video/QknixbTzqwQ/видео.html
PART III - ruclips.net/video/pDFQaztZHEI/видео.html
Because the imperial "senate" was dissolved, it was literally just palpatine in charge, and if you didn't like it your world was bombed and its people opressed killed or enslaved.
The head of any good democracy is a figurehead only. And the charter didn't force systems to be a member state.
And most importantly, senators could submit legislation and vote on new or changing laws.
That is the core of a democratic system.
And it makes the NR empirically less dictatorial than a literal dictatorship.
@@st4rlightr4v3n4 so by this metric soviet union was also a democratic state since elected representatives could vote on laws and noone was forced to join lmao
@@kubajackiewicz2 The USSR was a _de jure_ democracy, while being a _de facto_ dictatorship. Kind of like the New Republic/GA, it seems.
Opposite nepotism: two key members of the Rebel Alliance were the children of the Emperor's right-hand man.
This video AND your comment are perfect segues for an introduction to my story...
Here is how Star Wars can be saved with A NEW WAY (and a MANDATORY PUBLIC APOLOGY to the FANDOM).
This lifelong fan's video contains the first 45 minutes of a screenplay that will not only save the franchise and bring the FANS back but also subtly and mercilessly trolls woman child and man hating feminist Kathleen Kennedy - AT THE SAME TIME - turning her "Mary Sue Trilogy" into just the daydreams/force visions of a little girl with a dark past.
Lucasfilm... to paraphrase... "Use my screenplay... I beg you".
PART I - ruclips.net/video/Blgk19TCHFE/видео.html
PART II - ruclips.net/video/QknixbTzqwQ/видео.html
PART III - ruclips.net/video/pDFQaztZHEI/видео.html
your comment is a perfect segue into me informing you that 1) Disney ain't watching this place, 2) nobody cares about your delusions of being a screenwriter who can "save star wars", 3) you should probably listen to your mom the next time she tells you to take a shower and clean your basement.
This only proves that the new regime is still the old regime! Simply an inter-faction feud among the ruling elite.
@@youmukonpaku3168 😂Get triggered much? 🍼 1) Disney DOES keep tabs on the bigger Star Wars fan channels. 2) No delusions here, just a fan. And if "NOBODY CARES" why did you bother replying? 3) Perfect PROJECTION! Bravo! 4) What have you accomplished in life?
😂 COPE
@@ZiaAnnouncer
the person you're replying to has accomplished having the blessed Youmu as their avatar, you did not. corporations are there to make MONEY, disney will not issue some "public apology" or do anything to kathleen kennedy, they will merely do more mandalorian and similar projects as long as they bring money. will they make something that can actually be considered impactful to the industry and important to culture? no, but they will have a lot of money.
If Disney had balls, they would have greenlight a series that greatly explores the political aspects of the "Alliance" and the "Empire" in the vein of the criminally overlooked _Legend of the Galactic Heroes_ TV series, aka the Empire vs. Alliance series _Star Wars_ won't have anytime soon (outside of the EU).
I would totally watch a show about the Star Wars version of job truniht and his rise to power you could pretty much just make it Star Wars house of cards (without the terrible last season) that sounds awesome
I see you too are a man of culture! I'd love to see a touch of Legend of the Galactic Heroes in Star Wars. But alas...uncultured swine have the creative control¡
Balls. Pretty sure disney starwars is ran by people who saw the origional trilogy once, while they were high and having a party.
@@calebfielding6352 Disney Star Wars lore seems to be mostly written by marketing executives in a conference room.
_Legend_ lost me in the first episode when they decided to make the heroes look smart by making all their superiors complete morons. Mind, the military tactics aren't _really_ what the show is about, but it grated nonetheless.
There's actually some deleted scenes in Revenge of the Sith where you see Mon Mothma running a proto-rebellion meeting in Padme's appartment.
Strange aliens lying in ponds distributing starships is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery species threw a cruiser at you. I mean, if I went 'round, sayin' I was an emperor, just because some moistened squid had lobbed a starblimp at me, they'd put me away!
"SHUT UP WILL YOU SHUT UP"
@@vladislavivanov2334 Oh now we see the violence inherent in the alliance!
@@Arashmickey Bloody rebel...
You joke, but the Mandalorians decide who gets leadership via the Dark saber and trial by combat...
Worked through out most of history he with the biggest army makes the rules.
The truth comes out finally.
I knew it momma was a sith Lord in disguise using the rebellion to the throw my empire and to put her own
I looked at this and all I could think of was “Does Bruno Mars is gay?” If you know, you know.
@@ZiaAnnouncer Stop spamming!
Dictatorship is always evil
@@revolutionariesoffreedom2374 I didn’t ask.
*"I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."*
- Thrawn
That’s pretty deep. Where is it from?
This is actually an area where the Canon New Republic does much better. Mothma does end up as the first leader, but after her retirement everything is controlled by blocks of elected senators. Leia even ends up being chased out of politics, and by 34 ABY there is very little in terms of the Rebel Alliance old guard running things. Now, this much more democratic Republic ends up horrendously gridlocked, but that's a common risk of democratizing an incredibly diverse population.
It does seem like the Legend New Republic picks its leader based on the Senate voting (like a prime minister), rather than a direct popular election. That's how the prior Republic picked chancellors, and it may be the only practical way to democratically pick leaders in a galaxy with trillions of people on tens of thousands of planets.
This is why the US system is the way it is. The Senate was meant to be appointed by the states while the house was elected by popular vote. Then the President is Elected via a Electoral collage based on the number of senators 2 + the number of representatives a state has. The Republic could easily set up a system like this.
Shame none of that was depicted or explored in the movies.
Showing the failings of the New Republic, the supposed good guys, the failure of the Rebellion one might say, could have been interesting.
the new republic failed in not wanting to maintain at least the positive aspects of the empire as a centralized state and a strong army that is why it collapsed so quickly.
I hope there is no longer a republic and multiple independent states are created.
@@Bluesonofman I think that you are wrong about using the US system as the galaxy is to multicultural for the US system to work. The US system if used in the Star Wars galaxy would lead to the worsted political gridlock ever.
@@bozkurt7612 The US is supposed to have political gridlock. A government that is too stupid to make any decisions is too stupid to take away your rights. We should be focusing on eliminating laws if we do manage to get anything done.
Mon Mothma in her bathroom locks the door, removes her contact lens and looks in the mirror, admiring her Sith eyes … and smiles to herself.
CIS for the win. We need a 'What if' series for Star Wars akin to the old Infinities.
You mean something like "what if droid army stayed active?"
This video is a perfect segue for an introduction to my story...
Here is how Star Wars can be saved with A NEW WAY (and a MANDATORY PUBLIC APOLOGY to the FANDOM).
This lifelong fan's video contains the first 45 minutes of a screenplay that will not only save the franchise and bring the FANS back but also subtly and mercilessly trolls woman child and man hating feminist Kathleen Kennedy - AT THE SAME TIME - turning her "Mary Sue Trilogy" into just the daydreams/force visions of a little girl with a dark past.
Lucasfilm... to paraphrase... "Use my screenplay... I beg you".
PART I - ruclips.net/video/Blgk19TCHFE/видео.html
PART II - ruclips.net/video/QknixbTzqwQ/видео.html
PART III - ruclips.net/video/pDFQaztZHEI/видео.html
The CIS does come back in Legends. Without the droid armies though.
I’m down for that idea
@@darkleome5409 More like what if the Droid army actually won a battle...ON SCREEN.
With the clone troopers in full rout, with Obi wan making sad face and Anakin going full temper tantrum.
But No, That was too much to ask for according to the man with the cowboy hat.
So the post Return of the Jedi Legends Timeline was not a Good time to live in, not because of the Countless Wars from the Thrawn Campaign to the Yuzong Vong War but due to the New Republic's Inept Democratic System that could make a Civilian question how the New Republic handled their World after Dark Empire, or paint a Whole new picture that the Rebel Alliance and it's successors are not actually the Good Guys for those who lived in the Outer Rim or were used as Collateral by Both Factions
To be fair to Mon Mothma, she was technically a democratically elected official of the Republic, so by that logic she kinda sort-of was elected, albeit not for the specific role of Chief-of-State
@Comrade Clyde More than that even. It's like being elected mayor of NYC, not liking who the people chose (and remember, the people did allow Palps to keep his position and declare himself emperor and celebrated it), igniting a rebellion, then after victory saying "I was elected mayor of NYC 35 years ago so I'm president of the US now. Hurray for our Republic!"
I mean so was Palpatine. And he was actually elected to head the Republic.
@Comrade Clyde Nah, it's more like being elected Senator and minority leader and then having everyone further up the line of succession either go Nazi/Imperialist or be killed off. In a sense, Mon Mothma was actually the highest-ranking elected Republic official trying to 'restore the Republic...' though that turned into a bigger job.
Yo be fair to palpitine he was democratically elected chancellor and emperor as well
This video is a perfect segue for an introduction to my story...
Here is how Star Wars can be saved with A NEW WAY (and a MANDATORY PUBLIC APOLOGY to the FANDOM).
This lifelong fan's video contains the first 45 minutes of a screenplay that will not only save the franchise and bring the FANS back but also subtly and mercilessly trolls woman child and man hating feminist Kathleen Kennedy - AT THE SAME TIME - turning her "Mary Sue Trilogy" into just the daydreams/force visions of a little girl with a dark past.
Lucasfilm... to paraphrase... "Use my screenplay... I beg you".
PART I - ruclips.net/video/Blgk19TCHFE/видео.html
PART II - ruclips.net/video/QknixbTzqwQ/видео.html
PART III - ruclips.net/video/pDFQaztZHEI/видео.html
This is why I think the Fel Empire had the right idea. Form an organized, centralized Galactic Empire but without the weird Sith shit and widespread abuses of the Palpatine Empire.
Also its predecessor the Empire of the Hand, though that didn't have Force-users and (I think) a Force-sensitive Emperor who could use the Force to make wiser decisions but would be killed and replaced upon falling to the Dark Side.
But that government still uses a monarchical system of government, with all the flaws that follow with it. All it takes is for one Fel to go “fuck it, unlimited power” for the whole system to go tits up.
The only real checks and balances that exists is for the Imperial Knights to depose the Emperor if he turns to the dark side, which they can just declare unilaterally. Just look at the Praetorian Guards to see how that works out.
It’s a fanciful government held together by space magic duct tape and only works because all the Fels happen to just be Philisopher Kings.
@@guccifer764 Better than the chaotic and unreliable "peace" of the Republic. The outer rim is a perfect example
@Leona I would say that Democratic systems have the same issue you're talking about except in a different manner. The corruption becomes more prevalent as the Democratic process plays out. Occasionaly you'll have an honest one (Huey Long, Theodore Roosevelt, Robert Kennedy) but the mass majority of them devolve into a state of populism and bearaucratic hellscape. I think the kind of authoritarianism you are positing is the modern model and not so much the older models. Imperialist Prussia had an authoritarian system that was centralized and kept in a check and balance by a rooted aristocracy of administrators serving a higher ideal. One could use China too, the Tang dynasty was extremely centralized and cutthroat in the beginning but the first thing it did was eliminate the bureaucratic fossils clinging to power. On the whole however I think you make a good point.
@Leona That's exactly the way I feel about democracy. In my opinion, democratic countries simply export the terror abroad. The global economy, status quo and free market all import their goods from impoverished countries in Africa, the middle east and parts of Asia. It's an out of sight out of mind relationship that victimizes the labor overseas and keeps the capitalist system in top shape. The thing I admire about "authoritarian" systems over Democratic systems is at least in theory- the business is partially state owned or in the case of something like Prussia, sworn to serve the country itself.
Most authoritarian regimes don't last you are correct. They usually are a placeholder for something that comes afterword. In the case of a place like China its employed so that the party can keep its power no matter what. As this originally had to do with Star Wars- Palpatine was power hungry and self centered which was his reasoning for wanting everything so centralized. If we go by the the good lore aka "legacy canon". Whereas in the neu canon, the parrellels to Nazi Germany are the only thing any of the brilliant writers can seem to come up with. Nazi Germany is an abysmal model for authoritarianism as it never truly got to a point of prominence and was acting on borrowed time and stolen resources.
But yes, in the neo-liberal nightmare of the modern world- authoritarian regimes aren't as practical as they once were. There doesn't exist an Augustus or a Taizong. It's all money men with petty goals and overeducation. The only modern model people have is China and a fictional space empire that has dorito star ships.
Just one thing: If I recall correctly, Mon Mothma didn’t just appoint Leia as the new head of state. Leia was the No. 2 person in the Republic government and would’ve been first in the line of succession. Other than that, yeah, I too am a little fuzzy on how the NR election system works.
mon mothra
@@crumb167 You know what’s more surprising? 14 people liked this and didn’t notice.
😅
I feel this is more due to the writers obsession with dynastic legacy more than anything. They write Star Wars like a fantasy novel, where ones special lineage makes them uniquely suited to rule and have power, which has some very concerning subtext in a democratic system.
You see this in other aspects of Star Wars Legends as well, especially with the whole “Jedi Dynasty” thing that went on in the New Jedi Order. Makes the force seem less mystical when it seems to care about whose sperm you came from.
Since many of the EU/Legends authors were British, there was also a notable trend to monarchist points of view, ESPECIALLY in regards to Pelleaon being Space-Bismark and the Fels being benevolent philosopher-kings with their own order of Force-sensitive bodyguards (Imperial Knights)
This is why I didn’t care much for the legacy era with the fel empire.
@@neofulcrum5013
Oh my god, I thought I was the only one who disliked the idea of the Fel Empire
This.👏
@@ladygrey7425 Space Bismarck. Okay, Pelleaon sounds even more interesting now.
In a shocking turn of events, John Ellis “JEB” Bush becomes Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance.
“This is how Liberty dies, with a request for applause”
"the republic will be reorganized into the first galactic empire"
*Silence*
"Please clap"
*Thunderous applause*
They should've clapped
Bush who? President Trump embarrassed that schump back to Florida, where we thankfully never head of him since.
Meanwhile Congree passes Vax Mandates ... Cue the Thunderus applause.
@@Ichijoe2112 so, do you just not get the joke or what? No need to bring that sort of polarizing shit into an innocent and funny joke.
With Mon Mothma in charge it sounds like Anakin’s vision of Government he talked about in AOTC was achieved, and his daughter got to be part of it too no less!
"We should have someone in charge, who looks at the problem, and does what’s best for everyone."
"Peace through tyranny." -Megatron
Anakin's Force Ghost: Vindicated!
@@jsb6975.ah.crapbasketsPadme is rolling in her grave lol.
Doylistly (out-of-story), the problem is that the writers were writing in an era and partly in a genre (military science fiction) that had a lot of 'bad politicians screw things up, good military people have to clean up the mess' stories, on top of not really knowing or caring how real governments work, not wanting to tell 'boring' stories about elections (that would be different if the EU stories were written now, IMHO), and wanting to keep fan-favorites at the forefront.
Watsonianly (in-story), the rebels were good at surviving as a rebellion, but as other posters in these comments have noted, those skills don't necessarily translate well to running a government, and they mostly survived as a galactic government due to having people strong in the Force propping them up. This of course doesn't cover all the other politicians elected by planets later on, but the NR surviving on inertia, nostalgia, and being objectively less bad than the Empire until it collapsed under Borsk Fey'lya (almost the archetype of 'bad politician' in mil-sf, along with having a name clearly meant to sound like 'worst failure') and the pressures of a disastrous war is pretty believable.
Exactly: shooting the enemy in a trench doesn’t translate well to having to spar with words on a political arena.
People dunk on the PT and the more political episodes of TCW because they want the pew pew pew action over the boring political stuff.
But the PT and political episodes of TCW establish the current political situation/environment why the Republic is in turmoil, why people might have become disenchanted with the Republic and either supported/joined the Separatists or supported the Empire.
There’s a precedent for ambitious people taking advantage of political instability or public dissatisfaction/dissent with how things are done with the government.
But some people don’t want to think about the cause and effect that leads to the rise of dictatorships and rebellions.
It’s easier to focus on stories of corrupt politicians and the military people that save the day vs trying to make a good government and the military people feeling lost because there’s no war to fight.
I have a friend who stopped reading the EU just before the NJO because it was just fighting without end and she was sick of it. I stopped with the FotJ series because it was war/conflict without end and I was sick of it.
There’s so much more than fighting to explore!
What about a rebel soldier being discharged, returning home and struggling to go back to civilian life? Their old job is gone and with so many soldiers being discharged at the same time jobs are being snatched up quickly and people that used to not work have jobs and those who were working in factories/facilities fueling the war machine are looking for new jobs or dealing with shifts in what’s being made.
But I guess reading about an average Joe/Jane having to readjust to civilian life after the war and rebuilding their life and relationships would be boring; especially if there wasn’t going to be a plot that they uncover and foil.
@@kalifogg6610 their exist anti-war movies
Man I'm so confuse right now about factions, everything points that being an outlaw is a way better lifestyle in Star Wars
The Star Wars galaxy has almost always been chaotic. That's what happens when you have so many different people and factions with their own goals.
@@johnnygyro2295 trying to unite all of them is not only futile but dangerous
@@johnnygyro2295 yes... kinda like Earth times a million. Lol
Sith good Jedi bad
Palpatine just wanted peace, and he would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling rebels.
And their mangy Wookiee too.
Palpatine wanted peace? It's treason, then. Because Peace is a Lie. ;-)
The Empire was right!
Spread the good word, brotha!
Under the Empire Slavery was abolished, Pirates were kept in check, and laws were inforced. Unlike say in Portland Oregon, for example.
Montesque has stated in his writings the spirit of laws that there is three branches all governments have. Their legislative, judicial, and executive. He said the balance between each one and the participation of the citizens must exist in order for liberty. However if either branch were to be one of the same, it will result in loss of liberty and creeping toward tyranny. With the Rebel Alliance, they had no real unified ideology other than over throwing the empire and so many had their own ideas. As well as you said they combined both the executive and legislation. Man isn't history so fascinating that it helps with our nerd shit!
Montesquieu.
@@exaggeratedswaggerofablackteen Thank you
@@crylec6534 you're welcome
No, that was Locke and (surprisingly) Machiavelli, not the poster-boy of Democracy-Uber-Alles Montesquieu.
This is what happens when people who don't understand all the checks and balances a political system requires try to write a government in a fictional setting. They have so many other things to focus on in the story that they can't give time to flesh out the system and address the problems hiding under the good guy veneer. Of course, in all fairness, a lot of portrayals of the galaxy as time went on generally favored the Empire and its style of ruling through security and authority, but tempered away from Palpatine and Tarkin's rule by fear nonsense. Even though the Empire was autocratic it was mostly clean of corrupt electoral systems and abuses of civilian authority; the problems mostly came from the individuals filling the positions and the party line being dictated from the top that made the Empire the evil state we all know it as. After all, the only government sponsored humanitarian organization I ever remember hearing about in all of Star Wars was the Imperial Mission, a sort of Red Cross stand in formed under the Fel Empire that would eventually be cooped by Darth Krayt and turned into a religious propaganda tool and inquisition, but had been founded with actual good intent and required a literal evil space wizard to corrupt.
I've said it before. Hammer out the lore first and use that as your foundation. Otherwise, you're going to have a universe that doesn't make sense and you're going to be contradicting yourself left and right.
@@WarriorVirtue What's especially ironic about it is they continually made the NR and GA and Luke's order out to be fickle minded fools who contradict their morals whenever it's convenient, but they somehow managed a consistent and clear depiction of the Empire that made them look far better than the good guys ever did. I could go full meme and say Palpatine did nothing wrong and the jedi had it coming, but given how broken the Republic was and how the Jedi were lording around in a literal ivory tower I don't think I'd be too far from the mark.
@@scoman91 while rule by fear is nonsense, when you are interested in your subjects being happy, productive, non-rebelling people, it's a doctrine that makes some sense for a Sith leader, since keeping the populous somewhat fearful would strengthen Palpatine's dark side powers. and of course any official who got too corrupt could expect a visit from one of Palpatine's Hands. all iterations of the Republic, on the other hand, have been known to become infested with corruption that was impossible to dislodge, since the Republic would not do what was necessary either due to apathy or fear of surrendering the moral high ground.
The Republic actually had an excellent track record though. It maintained peace for literally thousands of years and sustained multiple attempts by various Sith forces (who never lasted very long due to their inability to plan or cooperate in the long term) to topple it. The Old Republic was functioning well, albeit with a heavy reliance on the Jedi Order to make it work, until Palpatine came along and sabotaged everything with his assholish scheme for absolute personal power.
@@dark7element That heavily depends on which era of the Republic you are referring to. The Pius Dea era, for one. And then there's the Jedi Civil War era, leading from the Mandalorian Wars up to the Dark Wars, and then there's the Great Galactic Wars after that. The Old Republic's functionality and morality are always dependent on what era of the timeline you refer to. To paraphrase a story I read, in the leadup to the Clone Wars the Republic did not know peace, it knew quiet, a tenuous status quo covering up atrocities and corruption stemming from a relinquishing of power from both the Republic's central military authority and the Jedi Order and the Jedi Lords.
It's funny how Eckert in the past paints the Rebellion as this perfect faction with perfect leadership but now he makes videos like this lol
Nothing is perfect. Plus, I like looking at the good and bad sides of things like this.
I know right? Lol
A little thing called Narrative shifting, it could be looking at the good & bad in things but based on what your saying Artificial he could of done that at the exact same time so this feels more like narrative shifting.
It's all about context; compared to the empire the rebel alliance are definitively the good guys, but that doesn't mean they're good guys.
"perfect strategy" not perfect democracy
The EU Rebels got things done though they also had their fair share of problems with their own Republic, the Canon Rebellion on the other hand is so pathetic that Thrawn could conquer it in less than two weeks if it weren’t for Ezra.
Fake Thrawn had them on the ropes already. If Filloni wrote Thrawn as he should have then the story would have ended with a crushing Imperial victory. The real Thrawn would never have been so egregiously stupid as he was in Rebels.
@@scoman91 Exactly how did Rebels fail at writing Thrawn? He was still the military genius we know and could only be defeated by things he DIDN'T foresee, i.e. the Bendu and the pergul
@@DavidbarZeus1 Yes, clearly a genius strategy to abandon your orbital bombardment to directly invade a base when you have no intention of taking prisoners. The heroes of Rebels were disgustingly incompetent and Thrawn had to be dumbed down enough to give them an opening to escape, or they had a deus ex machina which is also bad writing. Seriously, if it wasn't magic force monsters then it's hyperspace whales. I could go on, but then this would turn more into a rant about how Filoni is a bad writer.
@@scoman91 Tarkin ordered Thrawn to take prisoners though.
@@thesparduck117 To be technical, Thrawn's rank of Grand Admiral actually supersedes Tarkin's rank of Grand Moff, especially since this is before Palpatine dissolved the senate and gave the moffs more power. Also, Thrawn has never been one to let idiot politicking decide the course of battle. In fact, he caused multiple diplomatic incidents with the Republic before serving Palpatine. And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that the writing was bad so the Rebels would have an escape route.
I assume its a George Washington situation, where everyone unanimously voted for the person who led them through the war. That or Mon Mothma was appointed as interim leader while they set up government, then won her first election because she was doing a good job?
Just think about what the Star Wars version of The Hunger Games ending would have been if that were Mon Mothma on the podium.
But George Washington self proclaimed himself as a rebel and he helped American rebels defeat the British empire during American revolution
@@cutlery4349 I wish this would happen, THG is outwardly edgier but it has a much better underlying message for kids, i.e. don't trust the self-described good guys.
I wish there was more politics in the sequel movies besides “the company that produces x-wings also produces TIEs.” I don’t know if the New Republic has been explained in comics or books or anything, but from the movies they seem like a group that has no power, suffering from the same issues as the Old Republic but without Palpatine using disorder to build up his influence until he’s emperor and no one can oppose him. And even that’s not really said, they blow up the senate halfway into the first movie.
Disney's sequel movies make no sense, so you should spare yourself the unnecessary headache and just ignore them. x-wings and ties being made by the same company would be a retcon. according to pre-sequel source material, the tie-series is made by Sienar Fleet Systems and the X-Wings by Incom Corporation. Not sure about the comics, but the so called "Legends" novels explain the state of the galaxy quiet well. and the New Republic actually has some real power there as well. all in all those novels are 1000% more entertaining/interesting than the sequel movies.
I mean a merger between Sienar and Income is perfectly conceivable.
@@Phil-ni3ol only some damage in the building. remember in part 4 we are told the Emperor finally dissolved the Senate for good right then, so they still have been kept around for about two decades after the founding of the Empire :-)
Galaxy: Thank you! You’ve freed us of the Empire
Rebel Alliance: Oh I wouldn’t say “freed.” More like “under new management.”
It makes sense for newly formed governments to start out as a near dictatorship since they tend to be very unstabilized. The actual issue is when those individuals in power are supposed to transfer power.
Don't you mean newly formed governments which require military conflicts to form? Just the fact that most beings did not actively support the Rebel Alliance, never mind fought on its side means that political representation would not be evenly distributed among the civilian populace.
@@Poppadop1 where do you get the ide that most people didn't support the Alliance?
@@matthewsmith2979 many citizens felt that the rebellious senators were just spoiled drama queens who got butthurt cause their privileges were revoked by Papa Palpatine
People like to say The Last Jedi sucked. I say that's an understatement. The Last Jedi sucked so bad that it retroactively made the Original Trilogy suck.
The Force Awakens had a cheap plot in which the Republic was somehow gone and a new empire was in charge. Uncreative, bad, but it was still recoverable. But then TLJ doubled down with the 'casino planet' exposing how the war was basically a bunch of useful idiots making the industrialists rich. And finally, they had that scene where the Resistance called for help and nobody answered.
From that point on, the rest of the canon could only be written one way: the New Republic was unwanted. Therefore the rebellion that put it in place became retroactively unjustified. They didn't have a cause beyond 'Palpatine bad'. They didn't have an answer for dealing with pirates, slavers, and gangsters in the Outer Rim and the Empire did.
The "Legends" canon did it right. They knew first and foremost the New Republic had to be competent so as to not invalidate what the Rebellion fought for. So when they wrote their bad guys it was either that the bad guys were the insurgents or the threat came from outside the known galaxy. That meant compromising the story the writer wanted to tell in the moment to maintain the integrity of the bigger picture.
The only way to really do this right is to make the New Republic turn into yet another Empire, but get nipped in the bud early enough in the process that it doesn't repeat the cycle of hegemon and rebellion. Balkanization here we come!
I mean the Rebels were explicitly a temporary dictatorship in their charter. Mon Mothma had full authority on basically everything till the moment Palpatine died or was otherwise taken out of power. At that point she was to cede power to a council immediately, or be executed herself.
Watch the video lol
Yeah, none of that happened. She just stayed in power pretty much.
@@Newie69MK She had significantly less authority to simply issue direct orders. There was supposedly the election/convention. It's just fairy tale stuff that she was so popular she was kept around in the reduced role.
@@EckhartsLadder Ehhh exactly how much power she had vs the other organs of state is pretty vague because everything was kept really amorphous. We have to infer from her enemies like Garm deciding she was actually sticking to her promise to have less direct control than at the height of the Rebellion to actually "Prove" she was following the charter regarding her power level vs the authority she had at the height of the Rebellion.
Glad to see some more of this being covered, just because the rebels are the “good guys” does not mean they are good guys. It brings a dose of believability to Star Wars, and gives it more flavor, factions, in-fighting.
The rebel Alliance was mostly comprised of actual pirates and malcontents, with idealists being outnumbered 10-1, or a 100-1 in some cases.
Many members were imperial convicts tried for crimes from murder to insubordination.
Mothma, a bit hungry for power, is known to have once put forward the idea of usurping palpatine’s throne for herself, and maybe making Leia her heir.
Agreed. And that’s the Navy. Aside from Garm bel Ibis and similar cells, the ground forces were even worse, little more than ragtag roving bands of bandits.
@@liamhogan4369 Yep. Crews like the Ghost and the Falcon (who still committed several war crimes against uniformed personnel, mind you) were few and far between. Anyone who thinks that there is a faction in war that is completely squeaky, clean and angelically perfect is fooling themselves. War makes monsters of men and corpses of others.
@@ladygrey7425 Exactly. I’d also point out the vast majority of discipline in say, the Rebel Special Forces under Madine, or in the Navy in general, came from imperial defectors, which included many GAR veterans. Disciplined, committed, and usually quite moral; they gave up their careers and risked their lives, after all, turning their back on all they knew to fight the good fight against their former friends and brothers-in-arms. In many cases they had to tear down almost all they had worked to achieve over a lifetime. That speaks to a remarkable conscience, and great personal courage.
Think about the pilots hitting the first Death Star. Vast majority of them were likely Imperial Academy graduates. And they held together and fought on in the face of near total casualties.
Hell, Han Solo was an academy graduate. Edit: I refuse to acknowledge the film Solo. That, and it actually covers nothing about his academy days.
@@liamhogan4369 A very good analysis
@@liamhogan4369 yep raping and murdering Imperial citizens which they think is justifiable because they are from the good guys side
"The Alliance was structured to wage war, not rule in peace. It was a benign dictatorship empowered to lead a Rebellion, not govern a galaxy."
It really has me questioning just how unimaginative the authors were.
This reminds me of George Washington, who was basically chosen as the first president of the United States by the Founding Fathers and "elected" by unanimous vote of a rubber-stamp Electoral College. Yet Washington actually believed in this new experimental republic and stepped down after serving two terms.
Which is kind of the point. Fledgling nations need to stabilize or else they just fall to infighting, that doesn't make it a dictatorship.
And after a few decades, the US fell back under control of corrupt aristocrats and plutocrats which the Patriots fought to free the country from in the first place...
*“The treasury,* lacking confidence in the country, *delivered itself bound hand and foot to bold and bankrupt adventurers and bankers* pretending to have money, whom it could have crushed at any moment... We are now without any common measure of value of property, and *private fortunes are up or down at the will of the worst of our citizens."*
~ President Thomas Jefferson, 1815; four months before the 2nd Bank of the US, one of the Federal Reserve's predecessors, was chartered
The Southern states saw the overbearing corruption and wanted to break away to start over. Lincoln's "no negotiation" policy brought on the fighting. Lincoln destroyed the free press as having troops arrest owners, reporters, and type-setters and the presses destroyed. Lincoln also wanted to remove SCOTUS judges and Northern governors that had Southern sympathies with military Governor Generals. The only thing that stopped him was being told he wouldnt just have 11 states in rebellion but all the states.
But Georges Washington was a self proclaimed rebel and he helped American rebels defeat the British empire during American revolution
"A culture's teachings, and most importantly, the nature of its people, achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves… or find themselves lacking. Too long did the Republic remain unchallenged. It is a stagnant beast that labors for breath… and has for centuries. The Jedi Order was the heart that sustained its sickness-now the Jedi are lost, we shall see how long the Republic can survive." - Kreia
The emperor was a benevolent ruler who brought peace and stability to a war torn galaxy.
r/empiredidnothingwrong
While I recognize the joke, here is a fun fact: Palpatine supported a senate resolution taxing hyperspace routes in the Mid and Outer Rim, then talked the Trade Federation into protesting the tax he supported by invading Naboo. The Emperor is like a firefighter who keeps the job by setting fires...
@@Poppadop1 kinda like real politicians...
Long live the empire!
Palpatine 2024!!!!
The classic "let's overthrow the government"
"then what?"
"then we go to the pub!"
"But like, what are we going to do about the government"
"First round's on me!"
I mean I’ll still take them over the empire. Just wish they could’ve gotten some cool ground outfits too. It’s like they constantly shaft the good guys and give the villains everything. Like the clones were the last cool looking good guys.
Clones were bad guys tho 😂
Yeah right, not supporting terrorists doesn’t mean you should support literal space nazis
Good guys? Clones?
"What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private, traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word."
-journal of the 501st legion
This is my thoughts exactly, but with superweapons too. No the Starhawk doesn’t count
Really? I actually really like the rebel ground troop clothes 'specially the Hoth uniforms.
Honestly, the rebel alliance was more of an alliance of various terrorist groups with mostly general agreement in overall objective.
So they're the Global Liberation Army from C&C Generals
They were partisans, not terrorists. Big difference
Bail Organa would have definitely turned a blind eye towards any bio weapon labs the Rebels ever established on Alderaan
My biggest issue with the rebels is that their stated goal to "restore the republic" is just them wanting to bring back the system that allowed the empire to rise in the first place and the sequels showed how well that went.
I've explored the old Expanded Universe since I was a young teenager. It was abundantly clear to me after the whole Jacen Solo thing that the Jedi were basically a menace to the galaxy. Almost every problem except maybe the Vong came from them. They propped up their family who were often pretty dictatorial as you pointed out. Vader never ruled the galaxy but his kids arguably did.
For the Leia election part: she's literally a war hero. I doubt someone else could compete with that
And she's been basically a cabinet member for the entire time.
That is until the fact that Leia's biological father was _Darth Vader_ got publicized. Then her electability got _nuked_ and all of her credibility vanished.
@@TheTrueAdept It's okay, Lady Vader. You still have the Noghris' votes... ^_^;
@@TheTrueAdept see that doesn’t make any sense like if you found out that the person who overthrew Stolen ended the gulags and brought back freedom of speech and assembly was secretly his daughter unbeknownst to her and everyone else would you really care. Like seriously I feel like I could come out and everyone would be like all right she still overthrew Vader so it’s not like she’s secretly on his team or anything why would that affect her electability at all
@@henryp9671 think of it this way, Vader was the equivalent of Stalin's right-hand man and leader of the NKVD who, by all accounts, was called _Stalin's Himmler_ unironically. Now the guy who kicked out the Stalinists is the son of said man. That's basically Leia's position in Disney Canon.
The Empire and Palpy tainted a lot of things to the point that it makes what happened to the things that the Nazis tainted in Germany look like nothing. Leia being Vader's daughter would be enough to basically turn her into an outcast in New Republic society outside of the former Rebellion who _saw her_ fight and bleed for the cause.
This makes the Correlian session crisis in the legacy of the force era make a lot of sense. Almost as if Thrakan Sal had a point.
R2D2 killed ten times as many people as the Death Star in one sitting
#JusticeForByss
Bad take is bad. "There was some election tampering in our democracy guess slavery is better" lmao
More like the good guys are less honest than the bad guys about how they manipulate and control you. A gilded cage is still a cage.
In this Frame work it’s actually really smart writing that the sith/ empire keeps coming back as the rebels/republic fail to fix any of the issues that lead to the empire existing that makes groups like the new order so appealing. Under either regime it really does seem like life’s sucks for your average person in the Star Wars universe.
Small government would be possible in the Star Wars universe. But powerful systems would want to spread imperialism and it'll make the central power quite ineffective. Like the United Nations.
I mean it's not that crazy really, mon mothma and Leia are major heroes from the war so the idea that they were repeatedly upheld as leaders isn't unheard of. And in terms of the power they wield the organization was still in a war state during majority of the time with things constantly springing up(like every year lol)
Is it perfect, no
But it wasn't some kind of secret dictatorship imo
Also the populous electing someone like borsk is something that happens, someone can become really popular who is kinda shitty or people just want change from the norm.
Daala I feel was elected in simular regards and while I don't really like her, her interactions with the jedi after her getting in charge weren't that unreasonable, the jedi young were going nuts after all. But she did generally make a better bond with the imperial remnants making sure they didn't feel like second class citizens.
Yeah that's right, stuff was more complicated that what Ecks talk about, also I doubt democratic elections were a priority with All of the Remnants of the Empire behind the NR's throat, specially Thrawn and Palpatine
A suden change in leadership like that during such dreaded times would have left the NR in a vulnerable state for any major warlord to abuse and exploit
" The only thing good people are good at is overthrown the bad guys, the next day everyone is sitting round a table complaining ever since the tryrant has gone nobody has taken out the trash. Because the bad guys know how to plan and organize it's part of the specification, every evil tyrant has a plan to take over the world, good guys don't seem to have the knack " ~ Lord Vetirari Ankh Morpork
I remember reading in the SW Databank that within the Rebel Alliance Mon Mothma was subject to a retention vote every year or every two years. The Rebel Alliance was of course a military organization, not a government.
As for the New Republic, there are a lot of details that haven't been filled in yet. We do see some of the workings in the Black Fleet Trilogy. But in terms of how democratic it is: it would be like the UN, meaning the Chief of State would be elected from the legislative body (the Senate) rather than directly by the citizens.
The conclusion that I always came to when I was younger was why does the galaxy NEED to be united under a single all-encompassing central government? Be it the Republic or the Empire, centralized authorities always seem to be based in the Core, and provide the most benefits to the worlds of the core, with anything much past the mid rim getting token support at best.
I always felt that it would have been better for everyone if the galaxy broke up into multiple smaller independent and competing nations with more natural boarders along cultural and economic lines.
Same, but everyone right now has a seeming hard-on for centralization, as they have bought in the lie that centralized government=more efficient and accountable government (fucking LOL). Governments are fire. The more you feed into the fire, the bigger the blaze, and if you feed it too much, it grows out of control and consumes everything around it. A necessity? Yes, but only to a point.
@@ladygrey7425 that isn't the case because, well, reality _completely backs_ this little thing called 'economies of scale' which is essentially 'bigger is better'. Then there is the fact that many people who call for smaller government can't wrap their heads around things like technological context (i.e. the available knowledge of the sciences) having a _massive_ influence on rights and freedoms in general. You need big government because big government is the only way to crack down on problems. The definition of 'big government' is defined by technology...
@@TheTrueAdept You are soo lost....
See, THIS is what the sequel trilogy should've been about. I've said before that one of the main problems with the sequels wasn't that they were too political, but rather that they weren't political enough, and I absolutely stand by that. The sequels should've been about how difficult it is to re-establish a republican government out of the ruins of dictatorship, the dangers of democratic backsliding, and how stability can ultimately be achieved. Instead, we got some vague fascist allegories in TFA, some hamfisted nonsense about wealth inequality in TLJ, and basically nothing political in TROS. Lucasfilm, take notes!
Remember how lambasted the Prequels were before Star Wars: The Clone Wars (CGI) filled in the blanks? Yeah, same situation here.
Except the prequels, for all their flaws, did actually have a perfectly coherent political story, of how a republic falls into tyranny. The sequels lacked that completely, and no amount of TV shows can fix that. They are conceptually flawed.
I was a rebel faction supporter when I watching star wars back in the day but then I realized that what they do not showing the good things. Right now I'm joining the empire side
Glory for the Empire
A political series like a House of Cards, VEEP, or others set around a Senator trying to get elected into the Republic Senate and pass legislation would actually be kind of cool set in a Star Wars series.
Read the expanded Universe books. They have all that political intrigue.
@@Renigade16 I've read most of them, there's not that much politics in them except in The Black Fleet Crisis trilogy
As always interesting Legends video. The New Republic l suppose don't totally have it all their way after Endor as their was a power share with the remaining imperial figures and Imperial Remnant etc
This is all interesting because the chronic instability after the fall of the Old Republic and again after the defeat of the Galactic Empire mirrors very closely what usually happens in the real world in these types of scenarios. Revolutions, civil wars, and major political shifts breed discontent, violence and instability for years and decades to come. The political powers that be that destroy one system usually just end up coopting its mechanisms to entrench themselves in the new political hierarchy at the expense of the people, which is why so many revolutions seemingly fail in the long run. Rarely do we see major success and reform, such as after the American revolution. More often things improve marginally, stay about the same, or get worse, which is the case for much of the Arab world after the Arab spring, and most nations in the 3rd world post-imperialism and post decolonization. So many of the worlds’ developing and underdeveloped countries only gained independence in the last century or so. And their stories track so much like that of legends Star Wars, domestic instability and foreign interference included. Truly, Star Wars is a galaxy of all genres. Sci-fi, westerns, space operas, fantasy, action, and political thrillers lol
Always have been.
Galaxy would’ve been better off with a Thrawn-led Empire
Problem is what happens after Thrawn dies? Do you put his (hypothetical) kids into power? Or Pelleon? What happens after he dies?
If you rely on god-tier ubermensch philosopher kings to make your government work, you have a shitty government.
@@guccifer764 Pallaeon would be a good choice. But also, Thrawn wasn’t particular old. If he hadn’t been killed, he would’ve had plenty of time to select & prepare a successor. He was smart enough to understand the importance of succession as well, considering the remnants of the Empire during his campaign (in Legends) was a mess because there was no proper line of succession.
I would not like to see Jorus C'Baoth in any position of power let alone as a key advisor to the new Emperor..
Second, even though Palleon would *probably* be a good second to Thrawn, he might also have no qualms with subjugating worlds who resisted due to his imperial past.
Thrawn might be an awesome leader, but he was surrounded by much of the same influence from Palpatine's reign, so things might not end as well if he won.
Thrawn is so overated...
@@minicle426 Going to have to disagree with you there. He's a well-written character in the novels.
Oh on another observation. When WWII ended Churchill stayed on but was voted out early as his aggressiveness was no longer suitable for peacetime. He was great as wartime but a terrible peacetime leader.
Great video. I had no idea the leaders in the rebels and new Republic were choosen like that!
In the real world, most of the time, the "rebels" do suck on various levels. Playwright Thomas Carlylse: "Revolutions are started by idealists, carried through by fanatics, and co-opted by scoundrels." No matter how idealistic the beginnings, the amount of potential power in winning a revolution always tempts the pure of heart and brings out the sociopaths. Be warned!
Indeed. I also don't think it's any coincidence that the word "revolution" means both rebeling to create a new system, and going around in a circle to the point you started at.
During American revolution, the Americans self proclaimed themselves as rebels and they fought against the British empire
And now the modern world is influenced by this idea of freedom that USA brought to the world!
And the rebel alliance to restore the republic are doing the same thing, so support the rebel alliance or else it means you support dictatorship and you are evil!
This is why I like the prequels so much it gives us a deep look at the politics and struggles of the republic of the empire.
Dude that thing at the end with the dog was so cute and funny nice addition! XD lol
I love how 1:53 just summarizes the Rebellion as:
1) Form Rebel Alliance
2) Depose &/or Kill Emperor
3) ???
4) New Republic
🤣
I think you might also need to consider the state of the galaxy after the death of the Empire.
Consider the perspective: Galactic governance had been consolidated under Palpatine, as supreme chancellor and then Emperor, for 20 years(ish). For maybe 15 of those years, the Empire had completely restructured or eliminated many planetary governments, replaced them with Imperial governors, and installed the Moffs, a level of government that did not previously exist under the Republic.
As the Empire crumbled, planets and whole sectors might not have their own native governments, might not even have the stability to hold their own elections, let alone be able to put forward a senator and agree on Republic governance issues on the galactic stage. By 4 ABY there would be a whole generation of young people who probably never experienced a democratic election on their home planet, and are then suddenly asked to help form a government.
It just seems to me that the Alliance and New Republic kept their power vested in charismatic (mostly benevolent) dictators out of genuine necessity to hold it all together, at least until everyone else could get their banthas lined up.
A couple points on the political science in this video, 3 disagreements and 1 agreement:
1. The rebellion did not assert sovereignity, and therefore could not have been "a dictatorship". It was a *political movement* without internal democracy, which is reasonable considering it was organised on a military command structural template.
2. After an authoritarian or totalitarian government is deposed, like in Episode 6, it is normal for an interrim government of the deposing political faction to be formed pending elections and possibly new constitutions. Mon Mothma was clearly the head of this interrim government, and construing her as a dictator is far fetched imo. Also, her staying in power clearly implies she won a democratic ruling mandate somewhere along the way.
3. The legislature not being able to depose the executive through normal means is known as presidentialism, which is common, and in no way contradicts a democratic form of government. Sometimes extraordinary mechanisms for deposing are added, such as impeachment, as a safeguard against abuse of power.
4. The executive having especially strong influence over the legislature is not nessesarily undemocratic, but should, as you imply, arouse suspicion of a democratic deficit.
In Star Wars, both the old and the new republics have the speaker of the senate being the same person as the head of the executive branch. This is clearly a huge oversight in the constitutional framework of the republic after the first election of Palpatine.
Before him the Chancellorship was nearly powerless to carry out the law, which counterbalanced the chancellors control over the Senate agenda. Palpatine supercharged the authority of the Chancellor, using the CIS-crisis as an excuse to amass power, leading to an extremely strong executive branch, with near total control over the political process.
This clearly influenced the political culture of the New Republic too, since it appears that Mon Mothma also had a similarly wide formal jurisdiction. The people simply seem to have lost the democratic instinct during the Palpatine chancellorship and his subsequent imperial reign, and found it in order to have such a massively overpowered executive, since she did not abuse the power given to her.
Having the executive head elected from the legislative branch is what most democracies in our own world do.
@@kjhuang Yeah, that's parliamentarism. The Old Republic was parlimentarian, but the New Republic is implied to be presidential here.
@@TraumatisedTyrone When was the New Republic implied to be presidential? A presidential system would mean the electors for Chief of State are outside the legislative body. But in the (admittedly few) elections we see detailed, it's always the Senators voting on who becomes CoS.
@@kjhuang
1. Just after 3:45 they speak about a "presidential or chief of state election"
2. The video seems to refute parlimentarianism at 3:10
3. Leia assumes power through succession at 4:10
@@TraumatisedTyrone Thanks.
1. I think Eck meant presidential in the sense of "President of the Senate", which is one of the CoS's alternate titles/roles.
2. I think there just aren't details for how Mon Mothma became CoS. Unfortunately, most authors don't really care to write about politics.
3. Leia was MoS so she was first in line to succeed Mon Mothma when she resigned. I just checked Wookieepedia and there was indeed a "Presidential" election in 11 ABY to confirm her succession.
‘Vote early and OFTEN.’
Tell me you’re cheating without telling me you’re cheating.
Darth Caedus did have quite the run as GA head of state. Who can go against an all black Star Destroyer with a clocking shield? Oh yeah a Mandalorian trained Jedi Knight who also happens to be his sister.
In my opinion the best ruining class of Legends was the Fel/Solo dynasty. Also it’s kick ass to have Imperial Knights in red armor backed up by troopers again. I love the Clone Wars throwback style of Military.
Long live the Fel Empire!
Oh god, don't remind me about me about Daala's election. That pissed me off so much I quit reading the novels.
I just thought of another weakness in the New Republic's government: there isn't a long line of succession. From what I know the line of succession for Chief of State is Minister of State, then any former CoS, then any former MoS. Given that there were only five CoSs total and probably the same number of MoSs, and that some of these people die, and that it's not a great system to essentially have retired politicians on perpetual reserve duty, that's not a strong line of succession. No wonder there was so much confusion in the wake of the Fall of Coruscant in 27 ABY and with Poe claiming power. The MoS (whoever that was) should've been whisked away to a secure location as soon as that battle started.
You got to love how the empire blew up one planet while the rebellion blew up two think about it
Id love if you would do a video on how Jacen used legislation to gain control of the GA Forces.
Revolutions eat their children. Peace, justice and the rule of law are collective dreams that must be shared in order to function. Change is often slow and violent happening in gradual and erratic bursts that always risk regresion. It only really takes one person to cause ripples that can cascade into chaos regardless of stability or creeds.
It makes sense the Government would take a few tries to become anything useful and really the Galaxy was never anything but corrupt before the Empire so its not as though there are a lot of role models for them. They are basically pioneering while holding off continuous attacks from the periphery. I am curious what system of governance they eventually end up with.
Dude I love yours vids plus that outro is absolutely hilarious gets me every time
The fun part is when you realize that the imperial general populace had better living conditions under Palpatine than the overtaxed plebs with the Alliance.
Yes ! Someone is finally talking about it !
When I first watched TFA I couldn't help but think : How desperate can people be to let the First Order be a thing ? I mean, the New Republic is in charge, it is their job to prevent the return of the Empire, so why did it happened anyway ? Why is it so powerful ? Why are they so wealthy, so ressourceful, and who are these millions of people serving them ?
To me, the rising of the First Order is the (ironic) proof that the rebellion was not better than the Empire, because of the incredible number of people who gathered ressources in secret to build a new Empire, just to be able to crush this Republic.
And who's to say, after Rise of Skywalker, with Legions of fanatical Sith Troopers still out there and the Republic still in ruins, that they won't just do it all over again?
According to Disney one of the first things the new republic did was get rid of a standing military. So it was doomed to fail because of that.
The very fact that an Empire wannabe, the First Order, is in the sequel trilogy in and of itself suggests that the Rebels suck at governing with no need to look at any non-movie stuff. Okay I'll accept that logically there would be multiple factions trying for power after the Palpatine and Vader died. Indeed the fall of Empires generally will result in lots of wars. But that First Order does not even hide that it is dictatorship based on the original Empire is telling. It is like Germany bring back Nazi uniforms, Nazi symbols, and calling the head honcho the Führer. That would be a out the worst branding possible. Thing had to be really bad for people to turn to the faction with that kind of branding. And yes, all dictatorships have a lot of people who supported them. If the prequels did anything right it was to show that people turned to the Empire for a reason however misguided.
Maybe someone should get a copy of the book "The Dictator's Handbook" and apply its lessons to SW.
Love that book! Sadly knowing how Disney currently runs the franchise, I strongly doubt they'd let anyone who has read _The Dictator's Handbook_ (or anyone who's an armchair political scientist) to have free reign on a well made story anytime soon.
@@ZiaAnnouncer plz don't do spam here
I absolutely love when factions are not just clear cut evil and good , makes it realistic
If this is the case, then what the heck happens after the end of Rise of Skywalker? Everyone just goes one governing themselves? It would seem like the Republic or whatever would be ripe for the taking by an outside source. That one family entrusted with power, seemingly ripped itself apart.
Lately, I've imagined some reasoning Imperials might have for not joining the Rebel Alliance - kind of picturing an argument between Mon Mothma and a moff or grand moff.
1. Even if most Imperials knew how evil Palpatine was by this time, I imagine some Imperials acknowledge that he didn't just take power, it was given to him, legally - again and again for over a decade, more and more, by the Republic's democratic government - until it was too late.
"If freedom and liberty are worth fighting and dying for, why did you give it up for peace and order?"
2. I think that some Imperials were simply sceptic about the senators who support and lead the Rebellion, thinking that they're only motivated by a desire for the power they had in their position before the rise of the Empire - when the Republic government was rife with corruption. To them, Mon Mothma may simply envy the power and influence now held by moffs and grand moffs, and seeks to restore the Republic with aspirations of having that kind of power again, and have ambitions of one day even governing as Supreme Chancellor herself.
3. How could life under Imperial rule be so bad for politicians like Mon Mothma and Leia Organa - who grew up on paradise worlds into a life of luxury, wealth, and prestige, where they received an education befitting the "world leaders" they would become? How could these ungrateful and spoilt hypocrites claim to be fighting for common people being oppressed, when they don't even know what it's like to be poor and oppressed?
4. The Rebel Alliance has resorted to war against the Empire, and as bad as the Empire is, war is destructive and results in a lot of death. A Galaxy-wide conflict could far eclipse the loss of life that happened at Alderaan.
5. Whatever Palpatine did to get power, he got away with doing it legally. Mon Mothma on the other hand is directly violating the law with the most serious crimes of sedition and treason. I'm sure that many Imperials wanted Palpatine out of office after the Destruction of Alderaan, but would prefer that Palpatine be undermined and removed from power through legal means.
6. And even so, open declaration of war is extreme. I like to think that a large group of leading Imperial politicians, military leaders, and Special Forces operatives formed a secret rebellion that sought to have Palpatine undermined, removed from power, and replaced through espionage, covert operations, assassination, and spy tactics; instead of Guerilla warfare.
7. That said, I'm also sure that many Imperials at least wanted Palpatine replaced with a more benevolent emperor.
Correction: Palpatine *_publicly_* _"got away with doing it legally."_ If _"most Imperials knew how evil Palpatine was,"_ this would include knowing that he supported the Separatists as Darth Sidious which was very illegal.
Eh, I'd still argue Mon and Leia were elected in some fashion. That said, though, I'm pretty sure there were mentioned elections in Canon so that's good.
Then again, an election doesn't mean it's actually a fair system. Like countries that only put the current dictator's name on the ballot and nobody else's.
@@redeye4516 Still, I like to believe that the NR didn't win the war for democracy just to then throw it all away, especially with people like Leia and Mon there.
I’ve always wondered how elections work in Star Wars when some planets are literally run by monarchies.
@@guccifer764 That'd be interesting to explore, actually.
The Republic never had fair elections truought it's millennia old history as the planets in the core that founded or joined the Republic early were overrepresented.
This is what I wish the sequel trilogy covered. I wanted them to further go into how the New Republic wasn't as benevolent government as they claim to be, and how this led to many joining the Imperial Remnant (aka the First Order).
The fact that Nataasi Daala became Chief of State in either the Imperial Remnant or Galactic Alliance was always enough for me to believe the galaxy was always screwed post Palpatine's rise to power.
I can understand the Rebel Alliance holding on to a set of leaders without elections during wartime, but when the New Republic is established on Coruscant you've got to bend to democratic process. I read the Jedi Academy trilogy recently and I was gobsmacked at how Mon Mothma just passed on her office to Leia. Do I want to see Leia in this position? Yes, in itself that's awesome. But if you just pass the title to her like it's a freaking monarchy, you've gotta ask yourself if you are any better than the Empire. At least Palpatine was democratically elected at first.
I prefer Legends to Canon because Legends doesn't just start things over with a new empire and new rebels, but boy does Legends have its share of problems too!
If the New Republic is at war with the Empire or Imperial Remnant at the time, why _not_ appoint Leia? She is still a popular war hero. Compare this to Palpatine using his emergency powers during the Clone Wars, and it's not like Palpatine's election where he won only by manufacturing the Trade Federation's attack on Naboo.
This always did bug me about the old EU, especially when the military and the Jedi basically installed Daala as Chief of State despite Luke noting that this newest government was basically run by ex-Imperials. That said, it often came from the fanfic-like tendencies of the EU where the writers would commonly elevate their pet characters to major roles.
I like how Rogue One showed they can be just as ruthless as the Empire. Maybe not on the same level as the Empire but they did get their hands dirty when needed.
Your Imperial social credit has risen by 150 points.