damn it man i was waiting for Ner'Zhul question.. the One True King which they written off basically. I see ARthas's and Ner'zhul's relationship as something very special. The insight and vision of nerzhul who, as explained by kelthuzad to arthas - ''he chose you to be his champion long before the Scourge even began'' - combined with ARthas unvawering will to follow the dark but true calling he always had in him, that symbiosis is what i wanted to know more on.
just the best dungeon in the game, so many variations of stuff to do inside with basic quests and then all the different extras from temporary season events to permanent layers of items to collect or rare to kill..I just asked myself what a full 3D headset with adapted rendering would be like, imagine, being a student, actually learning what they study, experiment the changes from inside haha
I always wanted to know if my concept of Stratholme was correct- that is, that Mal'Ganis had set up a situation where it was "heads I win, tails you lose." That is, either he got a huge undead army to sweep Lordaeron, or corrupt Arthas. Arthas only winning move was one he could never have possibly done- which is to flee across the sea with everyone he can get to abandon his kingdom. Once we get into the later era of Blizzard, the bad guys stop winning and having smart plans. They just stand around and tell us they are scary while we smash them into the ground. And every point he made on WoW quest design is 1000% on point. It's a shame he lost that battle.
There was a small window of opportunity for Arthas to behave more stoically, like a Paladin, and try to quarantine the city. In that scenario he would have kept Uther and Jaina on his side and Mal'ganis would have been easily overcome (or at least more easily pushed out before escaping). However, Arathas' rashness and his push to "take action" rather than think things through is repeatedly emphasized in the story, and is the reason he was chosen by Ner'zhul. In an alternate universe, Arthas listens to Uther's advice more closely and realizes he's seeking vengeance rather than trying to "save" his people (by mass murdering them)... But that would have been an entirely different story. Without having turned Arthas, the Lich King's plan would have failed as his army would never be able to overcome a forewarned and re-united alliance. That's what the Undead campaign is about. With King Terenas dead and Lordaeron's army in shambles, the Dwarves and Elves couldn't keep it together alone and they all fell individually... There's an earlier draft of Warcraft III that goes into how the alliance falls apart, which was previously a critical component of the larger story, but was cut to make it more character focused on Arthas... but those elements of a crumbling alliance are still there.
Asking DesignerDave in 2024 this question and DesignerDave in 2002 is like talking to two different people who oppose each other, one is terminally online with woke mind virus and other is your normal guy in video game industry.
Woke mind virus? Hahahahahahahahahaha... People who only see "our side and their side" are truly the bane of the modern age. If you don't understand that I have been on the FAR FAR FAR left since college, you don't really know me and you never will. Primarily because you're only interested in tiny-minded "us vs them" scenarios. Grow up.
What surprised me the most was people complaining about violence in the earliest version of Warcraft. Just goes to show that these people were always around Blizzard lol
him talking about there being some villiagers who survived in the seccond cutscene... i did not read that scene that way. i read the culling as a massacre of the entire city, and the civilians who were in the city afterward were brought in for the repairs. i thought the reason there was a need to kill a specific number of villagers was a gameplay thing, but you were really massacreing the whole thing. also if there were survivors, they would still be corrupted and would turn. so jaina and uther came across as arrogant and incompetent. this was further developed with stratholm in wow being entirely dead. it would have been better narratively if it was done a bit differently. if uther or jaina had been in the mission, and was trying to rescue all of the villagers, so it was a 3 way tug of war, then the message of there being survivors would have been communicated. instead the return of jaina and uther was a return from outside the city who hadn't been infected at all.
Месяц назад
everything he claims you have to take with a grain of salt, he is notorious for lying and backtracking on his statements from 2/4/6 years ago
If he would have stayed as around until launch, he'd likely felt different about that bonus check. Staying that long would have been the real challenge if the pay was that bad.
They layed off all the new quest designers just before the next round of bonus checks after the launch of WoW. See my interview with Christine Brownell for more information.
What's everyones thoughts on the interview and OG Vanilla/Warcraft 3. What do you guys wish could have made it to us, the public? And big thanks to Dave for making time for this interview!
Arthas did nothing wrong Until he defied Uther's orders Lied to his men Killed his own mercenaries And voluntarily took upon a cursed blade for the sake of vengeance But the Culling of Stratholme was the correct course of action to protect the innocent and prevent the absolute scourging of Lordaeron
The AAA corps destroying developers hits hard. But I think the Bungie example isn't great after all we've seen them do and heard about what happened behind the scenes.
Bungie getting banged around by corpos is an important tale. Once they were infiltrated by people with a corpo-mentality (from Microsoft), they were never the same again.
@@DesignerDave I suppose the question I'd have is if you feel they were infiltrated during Halo 2's dev cycle, as that's the earliest I can specifically pull up about their internal issues. The nature of those issues being very antithetical to what I would expect a corpo infiltration to lead to. Mismanaged development timelines - which they have demonstrated with both too wide a focus and too fixated.
I think he totally robs the moral ambiguity of the story by insisting Arthas is wrong. Whats best for an artist is to let the fans speculate and decide what was the right decision or not.
You don't have to listen to me, but the story is pretty clear that it's a "step onto the path of evil." If "The Culling" is not a step onto the path of evil, then it's not effective storytelling. And I have to ask... At the point where you've convinced yourself that slaughtering an entire city is the "only way forward," do you not think you might have already lost your moral compass? There are some parallels to what's happening in Gaza that I hope people are paying close attention to.
No, a psychopath. And again, I ask you all who think Arthas "did nothing wrong." If you and your family lived in Stratholme and did not eat any grain (let's say a gluten allergy or a preference for pork), would you bow to lick Arthas' boot when he kicked in your door and started murdering your family before your very eyes?
As I have been saying since 2019, there will never be a return to old WoW and Blizzard because the number 1 issue with Blizzard is the culture and the people working there. The people still there dont understand the original game nor do they care about it. Metzen's hiring seems to be more of a political play to the fans in an attempt to get back old players. Im sure he was lied to and promised the world for his return but I can already see frustration from his recent interviews. He knew the old players would despise the political undertones of the new expansion and he tried to NICELY explain why things are the way they currently are while explaining his LIMITED influence in the current expansion.
replying to you ebon on this vid ya did. it's a trip to see another OG from the get go of blizzard that did work on warcraft 3 and some of WoW stuff and probably other older games before he quit out of it cause of reasons, people do not give proper credit when credit is do. thanks to them that did work so hard for so little payment, made great memorable games but sadly those great games were done by the creative people. Corporation people aka business people just want the outcome of shit loads of money and pay very little to the workers that worked on the game tirelessly... This is no different from any other entertainment industry. When he brought up Phil saying that the team that did well making a good game, got tossed out basically and that company is back together again minus Microsoft backing. That's fucked up, these assholes just want more money then what they've spent to create the game but also wanna put in their political shit into the games and telling the creative makers what they can and can not do? Fuck that noise, I'm glad he made the decision to leave and did other things. I'm glad i didn't become a game designer entirely just because of that, business people fuck it up entirely so. I don't give a shit how much money these publishers make, if the money that don't go into the right people mainly the ones that created the bitch to begin with, then these people don't deserve their golden gooses at all. It's fine to have some hope into the games now that are being reworked or worked on but don't put high hopes into this classic+. Blizzard has a long ass way to get back on people's graces after the shit storm the ones that caused it to begin with too be fixed entirely.
It's never been a better time to be an indie dev. So many tools and communities to support you. Don't give up on being a dev just because you want to avoid corporate control. The truth is, even at a smaller company, the probability of "your game" getting made is very small. Certainly you'll have larger contributions the smaller the company is, but if you want to truly make your own IP and your own gameplay. Indie is the way.
@@dannyp9210 Ive been putting an unhealthy amount of hours into turtl (also did for sod until phase 2) and there isnt any competition. Turtl is THE classic+... and its FREE.
@ 42:53 So that is why the raptor nests glow! I always thought there was supposed to be a reason behind the color. 😂
Just to get your attention for the quest. It was supposed to only glow while on the quest though... Unfortunate. :(
damn it man i was waiting for Ner'Zhul question.. the One True King which they written off basically. I see ARthas's and Ner'zhul's relationship as something very special. The insight and vision of nerzhul who, as explained by kelthuzad to arthas - ''he chose you to be his champion long before the Scourge even began'' - combined with ARthas unvawering will to follow the dark but true calling he always had in him, that symbiosis is what i wanted to know more on.
Now he’s a dev for turtle wow 🐢. Didn’t know he used to work for blizzard. It all makes sense now.
thats not a good sign
Have tou tried Turtl Wow?
@@Moon-shadoWzing Yes
Great interview! I just wanna thank David for being a part and creating my favorite game Warcraft 3.
My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it. :)
The Age of Empires take is so based I feel obligated to subscribe to this man
Time stamp?
just the best dungeon in the game, so many variations of stuff to do inside with basic quests and then all the different extras from temporary season events to permanent layers of items to collect or rare to kill..I just asked myself what a full 3D headset with adapted rendering would be like, imagine, being a student, actually learning what they study, experiment the changes from inside haha
Amazing interview amigo, happy Dave told it how it is! Ebon really killing it out here 🔥🔥🔥
OMG making WoW tools user friendly (including systems) would be HUGE.
I like how he went so hardon blizzard in less than 3 mins, im a fan!
he was part of the woke nonsense and left because he made a wrong judgement thinking he couldnt advance the ranks sucking off the woke people
I always wanted to know if my concept of Stratholme was correct- that is, that Mal'Ganis had set up a situation where it was "heads I win, tails you lose." That is, either he got a huge undead army to sweep Lordaeron, or corrupt Arthas. Arthas only winning move was one he could never have possibly done- which is to flee across the sea with everyone he can get to abandon his kingdom. Once we get into the later era of Blizzard, the bad guys stop winning and having smart plans. They just stand around and tell us they are scary while we smash them into the ground.
And every point he made on WoW quest design is 1000% on point. It's a shame he lost that battle.
There was a small window of opportunity for Arthas to behave more stoically, like a Paladin, and try to quarantine the city. In that scenario he would have kept Uther and Jaina on his side and Mal'ganis would have been easily overcome (or at least more easily pushed out before escaping). However, Arathas' rashness and his push to "take action" rather than think things through is repeatedly emphasized in the story, and is the reason he was chosen by Ner'zhul. In an alternate universe, Arthas listens to Uther's advice more closely and realizes he's seeking vengeance rather than trying to "save" his people (by mass murdering them)... But that would have been an entirely different story. Without having turned Arthas, the Lich King's plan would have failed as his army would never be able to overcome a forewarned and re-united alliance. That's what the Undead campaign is about. With King Terenas dead and Lordaeron's army in shambles, the Dwarves and Elves couldn't keep it together alone and they all fell individually... There's an earlier draft of Warcraft III that goes into how the alliance falls apart, which was previously a critical component of the larger story, but was cut to make it more character focused on Arthas... but those elements of a crumbling alliance are still there.
@@DesignerDaveArthas did nothing wrong
Asking DesignerDave in 2024 this question and DesignerDave in 2002 is like talking to two different people who oppose each other, one is terminally online with woke mind virus and other is your normal guy in video game industry.
@@GrooveSpaceArk Things psychopaths say.
Woke mind virus? Hahahahahahahahahaha... People who only see "our side and their side" are truly the bane of the modern age. If you don't understand that I have been on the FAR FAR FAR left since college, you don't really know me and you never will. Primarily because you're only interested in tiny-minded "us vs them" scenarios. Grow up.
Imho, it's quite possibly the greatest dungoen of all time. We ran it so much.
I love the honesty of DesignerDave. He speaks the truth we need to hear, even though it's heartbreaking. #BlizzardisDead
he tells half-truths so he can push his agenda
I tell full-truths so people can make up their own minds. You push an agenda. I don't.
6:32 Famous last words XD
What surprised me the most was people complaining about violence in the earliest version of Warcraft.
Just goes to show that these people were always around Blizzard lol
Jews
@@AnuddaGoy David is one of them, even today he pushes the agenda
him talking about there being some villiagers who survived in the seccond cutscene...
i did not read that scene that way. i read the culling as a massacre of the entire city, and the civilians who were in the city afterward were brought in for the repairs.
i thought the reason there was a need to kill a specific number of villagers was a gameplay thing, but you were really massacreing the whole thing. also if there were survivors, they would still be corrupted and would turn. so jaina and uther came across as arrogant and incompetent. this was further developed with stratholm in wow being entirely dead.
it would have been better narratively if it was done a bit differently.
if uther or jaina had been in the mission, and was trying to rescue all of the villagers, so it was a 3 way tug of war, then the message of there being survivors would have been communicated. instead the return of jaina and uther was a return from outside the city who hadn't been infected at all.
everything he claims you have to take with a grain of salt, he is notorious for lying and backtracking on his statements from 2/4/6 years ago
I had no idea Nomad became WoW. I just thought it was canceled. Interesting.
To clarify, it was cancelled when that team decided they wanted to make an Everquest style MMORPG.
If he would have stayed as around until launch, he'd likely felt different about that bonus check. Staying that long would have been the real challenge if the pay was that bad.
They layed off all the new quest designers just before the next round of bonus checks after the launch of WoW. See my interview with Christine Brownell for more information.
What's everyones thoughts on the interview and OG Vanilla/Warcraft 3. What do you guys wish could have made it to us, the public? And big thanks to Dave for making time for this interview!
These kinda interviews are gold worth.
I love Dave! Big TWoW enjoyer 😊
Arthas did nothing wrong
Until he defied Uther's orders
Lied to his men
Killed his own mercenaries
And voluntarily took upon a cursed blade for the sake of vengeance
But the Culling of Stratholme was the correct course of action to protect the innocent and prevent the absolute scourging of Lordaeron
If you were a gluten-free villager in Stratholme, would you bow to your Prince as he cut off your head?
@@DesignerDave Did you like... not read the comment?
@@nanthilrodriguez he's not wrong, though. Arthas left a ton of people alive in Stratholme, proving that they were not plagued.
The AAA corps destroying developers hits hard. But I think the Bungie example isn't great after all we've seen them do and heard about what happened behind the scenes.
Bungie getting banged around by corpos is an important tale. Once they were infiltrated by people with a corpo-mentality (from Microsoft), they were never the same again.
@@DesignerDave I suppose the question I'd have is if you feel they were infiltrated during Halo 2's dev cycle, as that's the earliest I can specifically pull up about their internal issues. The nature of those issues being very antithetical to what I would expect a corpo infiltration to lead to. Mismanaged development timelines - which they have demonstrated with both too wide a focus and too fixated.
I think he totally robs the moral ambiguity of the story by insisting Arthas is wrong. Whats best for an artist is to let the fans speculate and decide what was the right decision or not.
You don't have to listen to me, but the story is pretty clear that it's a "step onto the path of evil." If "The Culling" is not a step onto the path of evil, then it's not effective storytelling. And I have to ask... At the point where you've convinced yourself that slaughtering an entire city is the "only way forward," do you not think you might have already lost your moral compass? There are some parallels to what's happening in Gaza that I hope people are paying close attention to.
good collab
blizzard: hey let's fire the guys who made the best game ever, we the fans: wtf?
he claimed that he left on his own before, now he claims he got fired?
did he say he had a discord?
unless you have woke mind virus do not join his discord, he will outright call you a fascist and ban you if you dont agree with his insane ideology.
Arthas did the right thing. ✌️
DesignerDave is gona call you a fascist for thinking that way lmao
No, a psychopath. And again, I ask you all who think Arthas "did nothing wrong." If you and your family lived in Stratholme and did not eat any grain (let's say a gluten allergy or a preference for pork), would you bow to lick Arthas' boot when he kicked in your door and started murdering your family before your very eyes?
💯💯
As I have been saying since 2019, there will never be a return to old WoW and Blizzard because the number 1 issue with Blizzard is the culture and the people working there. The people still there dont understand the original game nor do they care about it. Metzen's hiring seems to be more of a political play to the fans in an attempt to get back old players. Im sure he was lied to and promised the world for his return but I can already see frustration from his recent interviews. He knew the old players would despise the political undertones of the new expansion and he tried to NICELY explain why things are the way they currently are while explaining his LIMITED influence in the current expansion.
replying to you ebon on this vid ya did. it's a trip to see another OG from the get go of blizzard that did work on warcraft 3 and some of WoW stuff and probably other older games before he quit out of it cause of reasons, people do not give proper credit when credit is do. thanks to them that did work so hard for so little payment, made great memorable games but sadly those great games were done by the creative people. Corporation people aka business people just want the outcome of shit loads of money and pay very little to the workers that worked on the game tirelessly... This is no different from any other entertainment industry. When he brought up Phil saying that the team that did well making a good game, got tossed out basically and that company is back together again minus Microsoft backing. That's fucked up, these assholes just want more money then what they've spent to create the game but also wanna put in their political shit into the games and telling the creative makers what they can and can not do? Fuck that noise, I'm glad he made the decision to leave and did other things.
I'm glad i didn't become a game designer entirely just because of that, business people fuck it up entirely so. I don't give a shit how much money these publishers make, if the money that don't go into the right people mainly the ones that created the bitch to begin with, then these people don't deserve their golden gooses at all.
It's fine to have some hope into the games now that are being reworked or worked on but don't put high hopes into this classic+. Blizzard has a long ass way to get back on people's graces after the shit storm the ones that caused it to begin with too be fixed entirely.
It's never been a better time to be an indie dev. So many tools and communities to support you. Don't give up on being a dev just because you want to avoid corporate control. The truth is, even at a smaller company, the probability of "your game" getting made is very small. Certainly you'll have larger contributions the smaller the company is, but if you want to truly make your own IP and your own gameplay. Indie is the way.
I got terminal brain cancer from Turtle WOW
Why exactly?
@@Moon-shadoWzinghe’s a retail Andy.
Turtle WoW is the best version of oldschool WoW currently. And DesignerDave is part of it :D
@@dannyp9210 Ive been putting an unhealthy amount of hours into turtl (also did for sod until phase 2) and there isnt any competition.
Turtl is THE classic+... and its FREE.
Damn right.