Helio Gracie VS Jigoro Kano (Background & philosophy Breakdown)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- This video discusses the lives of Helio Gracie and Jigoro Kano, compare their upbringing and approach to combat.
Support me on Patreon:
/ chadijudo
Song by Adrian Von Ziegler:
• Relaxing Japanese Musi...
www.graciemag....
#Judo, #JigoroKano, #HelioGracie, #GracieCombatives, #BJJ, #丸山城志郎, #阿部一二三, #阿部詩, #高藤直寿, #講道館, #日本武道館, #東京2020, #東京オリンピック, #ヒカキン, #柔道, #ShoheiOno, #JoshiroMaruyama, #HifumiAbe, #UtaAbe, #TakatoNaohisa, #RyujuNagayama, #MashuBaker, #AaronWolf, #SotaroFujiwara, #TonakiFuna, #DariaBilodid, #Tokai, #Tenri, #Kodokan, #Tokyo2020, #Sadulaev, #Snyder, #Burroughs, #Dyke, #KyleDake, #WorldJudo2020, #NipponBudokan,#Nippon,#GrandSlamParis2020,#Paris2020, #AllJapanChampionships2020, #Tokyo2020, #SuzukiJudo2020, #grandprix, #GrandSlam2020Dusseldorf, #GrandSlam2020, #GrandSlam, #WorldChampionship, #Olympicgames, #tokyo2020, #judo, #sambo, #mma, #wrestling, #calusawrestling, #ohio, #fight, #wrestler, #professionalwrestling, #gym, #romanreigns, #training, #mainevent, #martialarts, #brazilianjiujitsu, #pwg, #repost, #superstars, #followme, #JudoHeroes, #JudoTelAviv2020, #JudoParis2020, #TelAvivGrandPrix2020, #Judo2020, #ParisGrandSlam2020, #BakuGrandSlam2020, #DohaMasters2020, #BudapestGrandPrix2020, #OlympicGamesTokyo2020, #TokyoGrandSlam2020
Fighting ability is dangerous without moral elements and moral elements without fighting ability cannot help you in self defense. But when these two are combined, is the best approach. Mr. Kano, through his philosophy and his teachings, gave to humanity a great gift. Thank you.
Agreed 100%
The Gracies’ major contribution was in testing the principles of Judo, later modified into their own style of Jiu Jitsu, in mixed challenge matches. Apart from this, they’re guilty of a lot of revisionism. The most egregious sin is in claiming what Helio did was revolutionary in terms of technical development.
They basically stole Kano’s story and applied it to Helio Gracie, which, according to historical facts, is clearly not true. Helio could swim and row; he wasn’t frail and sickly. Sensei Kano wasn’t so athletic and developed Judo as a means of education and to improve his health.
Also, the Gracies not only accepted challenge matches, but they also bullied others. Rickson Gracie slapped Hugo Duarte on the beach for no reason and Helio broke Rufino Dos Santos’ arm while his brothers were holding him down. There’s also a video online where they basically storm a Judo club and refuse to practice stand up throwing.
The Gracies don’t even get along within the family. There’s a video on RUclips where Ryan Gracie, the son of Robson Gracie, is fighting Tico. Tico was the student of the late Carlson Gracie and Carlson and Robson are brothers. In other words, Carlson let his own student fight against his nephew!
Can you send the judo dojo video???
Chadi ruclips.net/video/VVdkug1ekiU/видео.html
And Ryan was able to break one of the only rules of that backyard brawl... he bit a piece of Tico's ear off, some 5 years before Tyson did it. Such a pioner of being a d.O*uche bag. Later on he would die on a jail cell after a 48 hour drug binge that made him steal a motorcycle and get in to a fight with 20 delivery guys. Such an example of a martial artist.
Rickson and Hugo had a long standing dispute before the beach incident, not defending the Gracies, but I think the 2nd generation really just were fed the BS from the 1st generation. The 1st generation were the ones that were really underhanded.
@@Chadi The video that is on RUclips took place at L.A. Tenri Judo Dojo in Baldwin Park.
Kano said 70% standing 30% ne waza was his ideal ratio. I read it in his biography.
Correct
In Judo, developing a strong, positive character comes first. Learning fighting skills is a means toward self improvement. I don’t see the same moral development in BJJ, although I appreciate what the art has to offer in terms of technical skill.
I agree
helio and the gracies used to not admit that bjj had a direct origin in judo, for a long time they told their own version of the story, and today many jiu jitsu practitioners here in brazil still believe in it.
Unfortunately
Thank you for the videos Chadi, you do a really good work
@@renanmaia6616 Thank you Renan
Criminally underviewed video. Thank you very much for the time, research and work put into it Mr. Chadi.
About the maturity thing: if you listen to most of the Gracie's. There is a silliness in a lot of what they say that suggests they are somewhat hot headed. Helio's first advertisement for a club which said something like "If you want your face broken, come train with Gracie" just shows what sort of people they were. If you listen to the Grandson these days talking about Kimura vs Helio its 100 miles away from what Kimura said. In Japan the social etiquette is such that you do not lose face at the level of Kimura by making up stuff. But you only have to watch the match to see Helio was just a junior Judoka. Kimura choked him out unconscious almost immediately and then when he came to, the match continued. Even the grand kids don't acknowledge his arm was broken in two places or that the mats were too soft for tachiwaza or make silly claims about how big Kimura was against Helio. You only have to watch the damn match to see almost all of that is exactly what Kimura wrote and not what any of the Gracies believe. That BS wasn't and isn't called on what they describe constantly is amazing to me.
In my Gracie CTC /academy/ dojo we have a great respect for tradition , facts , & history. So while we definitely have the usual portrait of GM Helio Gracie like most Gracie academies do we also have right by the shomen & kamidhana a large portrait of professor Jigaro Kano . Kano Sensei was a great man perhaps the most important person in the development and spreading of effective practical martial arts (and sport as well) in history. I think anyone with common sense and the ability to read and comprehend history understands that . I will always honour both of these men for their contributions. I'm a big "drop the B but keep the G" kind of guy when it comes to terms in case ya havent noticed lol. Again its my mission to spread truth and reunite the "original Jiu-jitsu/ jiu jutsu/ judo " to the complete balanced art that both Kano and Helio wanted to spread and develop. #armyourself #jjgf #jiujitsuglobalforlife #dropthebkeeptheginjj #truebudo
Exactly! Know your roots
Helio was just a guy that learned Judo/Kano Jujutsu and tought it to his sons and students. His sons were good at marketing (including taking part in founding UFC) and creating myths about their family. No way to compare Helio to Kano who did really develop a genius martial art and sport
The Gracies never give credit. I asked Royler who Helio learned from. And his response was “a Japanese guy” instead of saying Mitsuyo Maeda. They’re not honorable in any way
Edit: I accidentally put Helio instead of Carlos
Damn! That's not cool
Disrespectful if true. Helio actually learned from his brothers for the most part. They learned from Maeda.
Hélio never trained with Mitsuyo Maeda.
New information says that Carlos Gracie did learned with Jacinto Ferro and Donato Pires, and never had classes with Maeda
@Tony Soza thats because Rener, Gracie or not, is a genuinely amazing person. Probably a 1 in a million type of guy. A lot of people forget that the gracies are just people. You can be an amazing martial artists and still be an average guy if not an actual piece of garbage. And with that, the gracies are a massive frigging family. Compared to their own massive pool of family members who fit into the average to bad person categories, there are really only a handful that stand out as all around awesome people. Rener possibly taking the top spot. Sorry for the rant lol not necessarily directed at you more like agreeing with you but directing at all the people that think being a gracie makes you inherently awesome.
Edit: Rener AND Ryron
I really liked this comparison and much needed for both communities
Thank you 🤙🏻
On my point of view Helio wants to be remembered as the founder of Gracie Jiu-jitsu. What Carlos did for the BJJ is priceless. Many Gracies contributed to it (George, Helio, Rolls, Carlson Roger) but nothing like Carlos he lived it as a religion. Judo and Jiu-jitsu went to different directions. Thanks to the Gracie family Jiu-jitsu didn't disappear.
As for the Rufino incident, although not admitting the jumping alongside his brothers, GM Hélio did say that he was “young and stupid”, and claimed that he regretted doing such thing.
Yes i referenced that and the interview (in the description) confirms this
Chadi
On this interview he specifies that one case. It’s on the question #22: www.global-training-report.com/helio2.htm
@@LupusRexRgis thank you
Thank you for reminding me. I need to hang up a portrait of Jigoro Kano in my home.
Kano Jigoro was undoubtedly a genius. And, to his credit, Helio Gracie was a remarkable individual. He went so far as to take on Kimura. Helio was brilliant, innovative, courageous, arrogant, brash, determined - a great combination. He fought many fights and developed different variances of, what, Kosen Judo? And, then, without a doubt, many others further developed Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and that's a fact.
Agreed!
I have his portrait in my home, it reminds me everyday of Judo morality
What an excellent video. 👏
Kano was a true genius !
Indeed
Two outstanding individuals to be sure.
Indeed
What Helio showed there was someone around the level of Brown Belt. The precision shown against a compliant attacker was still a little sloppy. What also stands out is everything shown there is more or less bog standard Kodokan Judo. Why he ditched Tachi-waza in such a big way is interesting - certainly most of them did it in the early days so they could earn money in competition wrestling.
I do think that Gracie Academy(University), Torrance has attempted to live more fully into the original Kano ideal as regards philosophy, ethics, and self-defense. Yes, they still tend to hold to the Helio mythos(they are his grandsons), but I do believe they have made changes for the better. Albeit, this is also why many do not like them today.
Kano compiled and packaged jujutsu techniques from different systems into one new art, Kano jiu jitsu, aka judo. Genji Koizumi and Yukio Tani for example were already ju jutsu masters and teachers (not kodakan) before they agreed to teach Kano's new art and syllabus in the 1920's.
Im brazilian and judoka. I say for all, Kano is most important and respectable that Hélio Gracie for martial arts.
Thank you Silvio
Incorrect! Helio was a frail weak man who only tested his personal style of(self defense/ survival mindset) jiu jitsu against the likes of "Kimura" and others only after refining his techniques leverage and timing. He was not competing for winning as much as he was more curious on how long he could survive a larger stronger opponent....This is also how his grandson Ryron Gracie trains today( based on the survival mindset).
I want to do Jujutsu not jiu-jitsu. Same techniques but the culture is so different
More articles on the Gracie frauds are available at
global-training-report.com/archives_2000-2012.htm
Finally someone says the truth they learned judo and it’s to bad in all the mma gyms they have Helios picture and not jigoros
This explains a lot of the cultural differences of BJJ gyms vs judo clubs. The UFC influence doesn’t help. I see far more respect emphasized in judo in comparison to BJJ. Which is ironic because BJJ is generally a more passive and less dangerous sport
this was good one
Thank you
I didn't think about it until now. Maeda taught the Brazilians & Gracies. So there was a very close lineage to the original judo. I wonder if Helio was creating a legitimate rivalry.
I love this channel and its content. I also feel a constant tone of disdain towards BJJ, Helio Gracie and the Gracies in general. If it's my imagination, please let me know.
I don't think it's a disdain toward BJJ as a form of Judo, but a disdain toward the Gracie fake history. The message is simple: Give credit where credit is due!
@@marty6522 well said. Martial arts done right is to make you a better moral person with humility. Giving credit where credit is due is the least of that. Even sports should teach you sportsmanship.
Not disdain, but trying to stay objective, and giving credit where credit is due
There is no way to compare Jigoro Kano Shihan to Helio Gracie. Like Khabib said: Judo is next level, Judo is elite. The world is different because of Jigoro Kano. Martial arts and mixed martial arts would not be what it is today if not for Jigoro Kano. Gracies are good at marketing. They do not have the class or morality of Jigoro Kano. Judo is education. Judo, like the main color of the kimono, is the a symbol of heaven. Morality, strength & beauty. You can't compare.
give props to helio he is more like a Warrior like mousasi his lineage gave a huge contribution to martial arts in the world he is on par with kano and many others
@@nickrodriguez3850 Mousasi? Lol I think you meant to say Miyamoto Musashi. Props to Helio's makerting department yes
@@rangelo8908 yeah 😂 my keyboard messed up 👆🏽 I meant miyamoto Musashi
I haven’t seen any judo guy fighting to prove any point that judo is the best art
@@mafia3941The judoka Kimura proved it already😊
If the stories of Helio and his brothers beating up a wrestler after losing , he should in no way be compared to Kano
Yes but since both being so well known, and the disciplines overlap it's good to put them face to face to maoe a clear distinction between the two
Rickson Gracie had only 8 BJJ matches against a bunch of nobodies in his career as shown in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickson_Gracie . His wins in jujutsu were achieved in the events owned by the Gracie family. Videos of his jujutsu matches reveal that his opponents never resisted from the start to the end. It is evident that his opponents had been forbidden from fighting back. His BJJ record is comparable to a an average 1st year middle school judo competitor's. He is still hiding his miserable 47 seconds loss to American judoka Ron Tripp in 1993 Pan Am Sambo Championship. Judo in US was a minor sport then. Sambo in 1993 was far more minor than Judo. Most Americans in 1993 had never even heard of Sambo. Of the 195 countries in the world, only 28 countries participated in 1993 World Sambo Championship en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Sambo_Championships . Rickson never competed in any Sambo championship anywhere in the world after this miserable defeat, from the fear of losing again. He fully understood the limitation of his skills from this loss. He could not beat anyone in an event not owned by the Gracie family. To hide this limitation, he has been claiming that the rules were not explained to him. His attitude is exactly the opposite of Masahiko Kimura's. Kimura wrote in his autobiography “Waga Judo” (1984) : “ People call me [Jou-shou no Kimura (Kimura who always wins)]. But I have 4 losses in my judo career.”. Even though Kimura was called “Unbeatable God of Judo”, without anybody asking, he denied this label by disclosing his 4 losses that had been forgotten by news media.
I read Rickson Gracie's website today rickson.com/frame-history-8/, and found that he is still spreading his fake records after they were completely debunked.
[His innate talent and early mastery of the sport have resulted in an impeccable undefeated record in more than 400 fights, Jiu-Jitsu tournaments, free-style wrestling, Sambo, open weight free-style competitions, and no holds barred challenge matches. Rickson is a two time Brazilian Champion in free-style wrestling, a Gold Medal Winner of Sambo, and for the last sixteen years he has been the middle-heavyweight and no weight division World Jiu-Jitsu Champion. ]
I think I already reported on his fake record in Free-style Wrestling and Sambo. I investigated his last claim [for the last sixteen years he has been the middle-heavyweight and no weight division World Jiu-Jitsu Champion.] today. All the winners of the past World Jujutsu Championship tournament matches are shown at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jiu-Jitsu_Championship . The name Rickson Gracie does not exist on this list. It is commonly known in the MMA community that Rickson has never participated in any World Jujutsu Championship. So, this did not surprise me at all.
ruclips.net/video/PS4_kwhh1Ws/видео.html is a complete footage of Rickson vs Zulu fight, which had been touted as a Vale Tudo match. This video reveals that the number of strikes used in this match is 0.
Did the Gracie's actually ever come up with new techniques
I'm gonna say this before finishing this video. The reason I'm hopinkg to start in judo is because its the root of that style and second BJJ dojos have popped up like weeds so somebody isn't really legit. Judo is the way to go.
Best of luck on your Judo Journey
@Chadi why did Judo masters today stop wearing Hamakas for demonstration?
They should bring that back!! It looks bad ass makes you look like you have big balls!
I have a question.
How battle tested was kano???
He wasn't. I don't think he ever fought or competed
Are all moves done by helio from JUJUTSU also?
Judo
Yes, judo...but that's simply Kano's style/version of Japanese jujutsu. So both answers are correct.
Please keep this background music.
Will do
Eu só judoca
Where is the info on helio training catch wrestling?
lutalivre-academy.de/publications/articles/the-development-of-luta-livre-and-vale-tudo-in-brazil-part-i-1
Chadi thanks for the info brother 🙏🏻
RUFINO DOS SANTOS
Famous doo doo 😂
Gracie made bjj for rich
Im glad im stoped Bjj and started Japanese Jujitsu.. Their is no judo were i live.
Try cross training, do you do ne waza in jj?
@@Chadi Yes sir. Ground, throws, and joint manipulation. Im also 4th dan in karate.
@@jasoncruz582 Awesome keep pushing
@@jasoncruz582 What system of "japanese Jujutsu" is it?...
@@mongolchiuud8931 Gushin Jujitsu, and my instructor is a catchwrestler also.
KONA THE FATHER DU JJB GRACIE
Rickson Gracie is listed as an actor who appeared in Vale Tudo Japan 1994, Vale Tudo Japan 1995, Pride 1, and Pride 4.
www.imdb.com/name/nm0333487/
In ameblo.jp/taka-the-sabertigar/entry-11489897817.html ,
Vitor Belfort said, “There is no fighter named Takada. He is a disgrace to all of us who are real fighters. He does only fake fights.”. Because all of Takada's fights were fake, his 2 fights against Rickson Gracie in Vale Tudo Japan 1994 and Vale Tudo Japan 1995 were fake.
Frank Shamrock said, “Takada has no skills at all.”.
Lol. What??? Can you take your medicine for your Schizophrenia before posting, please?
Nobuhiko Takada is the creator of Pride FC and owner of Rizin FF. He also is the owner of the Takada Dojo, the biggest Pro-Wrestling gym in Japan. He is also the mentor of Sakuraba.
Vitor Belfort said that his old fights were "Marmelada" (which means scripted fake fights), obviously he was referring of the his old Pro-Wrestling fights and not to his fights at Pride FC.
Nobuhiko Takada fought against the best fighters on their prime: Rickson Gracie, Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Royce Gracie, Igor Vovchanchyn, Mirco Cro Cop. Calling him fake is crazyness.
@@aluisiofsjr I agree with you but let's not act like some of those pride fights weren't fixed I'm looking at you Takada vs Coleman
DisGracies
Cheez. Those self defense techniques against a knife or a gun... Don't try them in real life!!!! I don't care how many black belts you have.
Unless you're drilling them religiously daily
@@Chadi I would say it doesn't help. With knives you either run away or keep them at a distance with kicks. With guns, either you empty your pockets, run away or have a gun yourself. These techniques are just a stupid "Hail Mary".
Anyone with sense, including most of the Gracie's, explain anti knife and gun techniques are last resort.
@@ianj4389 It doesn't look like it. I've seen this too many times to take you seriously. It's part of their "self defense".
@@ianj4389 , I'm not sure about that. A friend of mine that trains in Gracie Kore (Kyra's gym) says that some instructors there say that those self-defense techniques works, even my friend doesn't believe in that...
Rickson's fake record: lazzurit.ru/en/rikson-greisi-intervyu-pochemu-vzglyady-riksona-greisi-na-brazilskoe.html
Excerpts
According to Rickson's website, he is a 2-time Brazil national champion in freestyle wrestling, in 1977 he became the world champion in sambo for 16 years and was the world champion in World Jiu-Jitsu. Rickson himself posted this information on his page on the Internet.
The Zulu record is presented as 140-0. Zulu's official record is 1-6-0. Enson Inoue destroyed him in 45 seconds, while Rickson spent 10 minutes with him. The second enemy was Hugo Duarte. He was knocked out by Tank Abbott in 17 UFC in 43 seconds.
One of the “evidence” is the claim that Rickson became the world champion in sambo in 1977.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Sambo_Championships
1977 World Sambo Championship was cancelled.
Brazilian 2-time freestyle wrestling champion. If Rickson really was him, then he had to take part in qualifying tournaments for the Olympics or the World Cup. Rickson Gracie is not in any list of participants. The Brazilian data bank shows that Rickon never even participated in the national freestyle wrestling championships in Brazil.
Rickson's record in MMA is 11-0-0. What are the "famous" names: David Levicki, Yuki Nakai, Bud Smith and, Yoshihisa Yamamoto. Yoshihisa Yamamoto is a 5th rated fighter who was defeated in 9 seconds by Katsuyori Shibata. Shibata's record was 4-11-1. Of Rickson's 11 defeated rivals, 8 have a negative ratio in battles. The overall record of Rickson's rivals is 64-60-5! Without Masakazu Funaki, the overall record for the remaining 10 rivals would be 26-49-4 !!! Yoji Anjo, whom Rickson “strangled” in his gym and introduced the unconscious Anjo to reporters. Anjo's record is 0-5-1!
Rickson replied that it was a victory in Pride FC 1 against Nobuhiko Takada (whom he called the greatest Japanese fighter). Takada has a record in MMA at 2-6-2 and is the "best Japanese fighter"?))). The second person who was defeated by Rickson in CHOKE was the Japanese Koichiro Kimura, and, his record is also negative 1-2-0.
All author friendly letters ( association@rickson.com,rgjjcenter@rickson.com), asking for evidence of Rickson’s allegations, are still unanswered!
Omg! Rickson was my favourite, that's so disappointing
When you hear Joe Rogan talk about how good Rickson is and then you see this
Fake news
The truth is .... if it wasn’t for the Gracie family Americans would be thinking that chuck and Bruce lee were real fighters lol
Are you really THAT ignorant? Chuck Norris was the real deal. Norris started out as a point fighter and then moved into full contact! Learn something!
They were though
To average boxer throws a punch,bye bye shitzu