Yeah with team events we ignore placings data and check if there are any 1v1 pairings on the event. If there are any 1v1 games happening we take those games and add them to win % data in 'All Events'. Unfortunately, if there's only team pairings then the data isn't used at all.
We have already discussed the buffs that SM Scouts should have gotten in the last balanced dataslate, and just didn't. 😢 That is just poor marketing for a faction that was released this season, when GW should have experience by now in this edition on what works and doesn't.
For a company that is so concerned with "selling models", this is just odd IMO. And since SM are a fanboy-faction (if you can say that there is such a thing in KT), you would think that GW would have gone out of their way to make sure they were competitive... especially after the nerfs to the Intercession Squad KT. But what do I know... I'm just a Yank who has been playing their products since 1995 (and familiar with them since 1989!!!) 😁😉😂
Kasrkin need a buff, but for the love of the emperor not a shooting buff. Things like Combat Blade going to 4A instead of 3, improving Ploy like Cover Retreat or Safeguard, giving the Coms guy a way to have a single use of the +1APL on strategic phase.
@@CanYouRollaCrit: nothing to thank, man. Kill Team has helped me immensely with the collapse of Afghanistan and all the other crap we - my friends and I - fought through for years there and in Iraq. You basically taught us how to play, especially me with Pathfinders haha. And yes, I beat the hell out of them with Paths. I can actually act like a soldier with that faction.
@@CanYouRollaCrit you have, so thank you. I run Pathfinders and Kasrkin (former USAF CCT, which is a field sort of similar to Pathfinders of the UK’s Parachute Regiment, though actually SOF like a SEAL, so they appeal to me) and I learned so much from your videos. Again, you get the thanks here. I can’t wait until the next live.
I went to my first official tournament this month (dallas open) so its crazy to think im technically contributing to this, somewhere. Great video as usual!
you mentioned kill team has “too many factions“ for the player base to support; any chance you can dig into the downsides of this many factions? i imagine it’s only going to get worse as more teams are released. are you thinking GW needs to retire older factions?
I agree that it's only going to grow from here, even if they retire some. 40k gets 1-2 news faction each edition. Kill Team gets 2 new factions every release. I honestly don't think it's a bad thing, but our approach on how we analyze this game will likely have to adapt. This game isn't 'little 40k.' Even when it comes to the stats it's going to be different.
@@smiles_lies_gunfire seems a bit apples to oranges though; two players can kit out the same 40k faction with totally differant lineups but two Pathfinder kill team players are going to have nearly identical lineups. Unless the 40k scene is more standardized than I think, I don't play bighammer...
@@jakesulpice2792 Yes, that is true. I don't really keep up with 40k, but my experience has been if a faction has even 1 playable build; then that's what the competitive community will play. The general expectation is large portions of a codex won't be viable on a competitive level. Even "weak" codices end up putting up decent numbers so long they have some viable options. But Kill Team doesn't really allow any wiggle room. If a team struggles, there's no "competitive build" to rely on. So players either struggle or they just abandon their 10 model kit for a more competitive 10 model kit.
Exaction 57% winrate?? I need a contact to someone who know how to play them because they seem awfully weak to me, especially outside of ITD. They are my favorite team and I always thought they needed a buff
High winrate based on data from a single month (that CYRAC acknowledged was a month with a dip in player count, therefore an even smaller sample size than usual) does not mean that Exaction doesn't need a buff. They most definitely do.
So i know its traditional for maps to miss new zealand, but replacing the small chunk of land that is Australia with water is certainly a bold choice. Did their KT community have negative tournaments and were thus banned for their sins?
It’s funny, I took nemesis just cause they had a low win rate and it felt ridiculous and as soon as I win their rate jumps up and it looks like I took a meta team.
Line them up model for model vs Tau Pathfinders. Ordinary Pathfinders need two hits to kill a kasrkin. Kasrkin need a hit and a crit to do the same, but are outnumbered and slower. Give Kasrkin the ability to swap a gunner for two ordinary troopers. Or a dog. :) Something that helps against hordes…
I don't think there's too many factions; there's an error with the definition. It's like saying that 40K has too many units. The issue seems to be one of an analytic, differentiated viewpoint vs a systemic, integrated viewpoint, in that each of the bespoke teams is atomic, and so any time a new one is released, another entry is added to the stats pile, and the pile keeps growing. An extreme example of this skew is considering what the chart would look like if each team's data was again broken-out into archetypal builds, or even just more natural splits, like Avengers, Banshees and Scorpions, for BladesOK, .. -> it would blow out to a couple of pages! The opposite would happen if either the teams were consolidated into actual factions again, either from a purely statistical standpoint, or by having a 'Compendium V2', where the bespoke teams could be a subset of a roster. The statistical approach would be simple, but we would then lose some nuance in the data (e.g. Hunter Cadre would become a latent variable, pulling down the Farstalkers, even further). The more 'official' consolidation approach, would likely require a bit of work and balancing and is also less likely to to be favoured by GW with their 'one box (+ another box to get that extra arm you need) simplified commercial offering'-approach... ...which brings us full circle, back to GW will probably just axe some teams in the 'new edition' 🥴 In the past, they've avoided stating that they're invalidating everything officially (though, they did just dump a load of Sigmar), so don't be surprised if instead, your favourite team suddenly doesn't have access to the new must-have climbing/jump equipment, and so they all have to stand on an open platform in a big firing lane, for the entire game, until you take the hint!
@@CanYouRollaCrit I'm not sure Votann and GSC 40k players would agree, but you're right that it's a lot easier to just remove (already paid for) stuff and make room for (as yet, unpaid for) new stuff. In 40k's case, if otherwise it does have too many units, then one approach would be to treat all marines, for example, like Deathwatch and consolidate units based on armour types, so there are three types of SM unit (phobos, regular, chunky)... but as a DW collector, I think that's can be even more confusing; at least while they're giving everything an alternative name, so as not to confuse it with the original unit 😵💫 Again... they'd probably just chop stuff.
@@CanYouRollaCrit yeah a minor one would be just alright, you are right, the meta is in general becoming stronger and they have fallen to the low B tier and hardly can stand a chance against A tier and especially the S one
@@Nipponson86 Nemesis is a far more stronger team then the legionary, so its a bit of a shame that if u want to play a decent CSM u need to chose Nemesis, though i still want to play legionary, so they need a slight buff to get updated due to the new teams and meta, otherwise they would be just left behind
As a gamedesigner the idea that 45-55% winrate difference is ok balancingwise feels so cringe. 48-52% is fine, but more than that means you did something wrong as a gamedesigner.
hmm yes, you know what this means: buff mandrakes
We must go FURTHER BEYOND
Just wanted to add the KT Tournament that happened in Malta in May was actually a Doubles Tournament - Winning Team was Warp Coven and Nemesis Claw
Thanks, that's great!
Yeah with team events we ignore placings data and check if there are any 1v1 pairings on the event.
If there are any 1v1 games happening we take those games and add them to win % data in 'All Events'. Unfortunately, if there's only team pairings then the data isn't used at all.
That's a dirty combo I love it!
We have already discussed the buffs that SM Scouts should have gotten in the last balanced dataslate, and just didn't. 😢
That is just poor marketing for a faction that was released this season, when GW should have experience by now in this edition on what works and doesn't.
Yeah very odd scouts got no buffs earlier
For a company that is so concerned with "selling models", this is just odd IMO. And since SM are a fanboy-faction (if you can say that there is such a thing in KT), you would think that GW would have gone out of their way to make sure they were competitive... especially after the nerfs to the Intercession Squad KT.
But what do I know... I'm just a Yank who has been playing their products since 1995 (and familiar with them since 1989!!!) 😁😉😂
Ah GW don't really tie rules to sales but yeah
Kasrkin need a buff, but for the love of the emperor not a shooting buff.
Things like Combat Blade going to 4A instead of 3, improving Ploy like Cover Retreat or Safeguard, giving the Coms guy a way to have a single use of the +1APL on strategic phase.
I think combat blades going to 4 attacks and 2EP would be fair
or For Cadia activation any time when kasrkin fights in melee and not only when he is activated.
Man, I STILL love your stuff. Thanks for this and the tactics videos and hell, everything.
Aha thanks (:
@@CanYouRollaCrit: nothing to thank, man. Kill Team has helped me immensely with the collapse of Afghanistan and all the other crap we - my friends and I - fought through for years there and in Iraq. You basically taught us how to play, especially me with Pathfinders haha. And yes, I beat the hell out of them with Paths. I can actually act like a soldier with that faction.
Ah that's amazing to hear dude, happy I've been able to help (:
@@CanYouRollaCrit you have, so thank you. I run Pathfinders and Kasrkin (former USAF CCT, which is a field sort of similar to Pathfinders of the UK’s Parachute Regiment, though actually SOF like a SEAL, so they appeal to me) and I learned so much from your videos. Again, you get the thanks here. I can’t wait until the next live.
I went to my first official tournament this month (dallas open) so its crazy to think im technically contributing to this, somewhere. Great video as usual!
Ah great to hear! Thanks for watching (:
Seems like it’s time to buff kasrkin again😏
I don't think she canne take no more 😭
you mentioned kill team has “too many factions“ for the player base to support; any chance you can dig into the downsides of this many factions? i imagine it’s only going to get worse as more teams are released. are you thinking GW needs to retire older factions?
Pretty much, we have more factions than 40k has armies which is pretty crazy. They'll have to retire some eventually
I agree that it's only going to grow from here, even if they retire some. 40k gets 1-2 news faction each edition. Kill Team gets 2 new factions every release.
I honestly don't think it's a bad thing, but our approach on how we analyze this game will likely have to adapt. This game isn't 'little 40k.' Even when it comes to the stats it's going to be different.
@@smiles_lies_gunfire seems a bit apples to oranges though; two players can kit out the same 40k faction with totally differant lineups but two Pathfinder kill team players are going to have nearly identical lineups. Unless the 40k scene is more standardized than I think, I don't play bighammer...
@@jakesulpice2792 Yes, that is true.
I don't really keep up with 40k, but my experience has been if a faction has even 1 playable build; then that's what the competitive community will play. The general expectation is large portions of a codex won't be viable on a competitive level. Even "weak" codices end up putting up decent numbers so long they have some viable options.
But Kill Team doesn't really allow any wiggle room. If a team struggles, there's no "competitive build" to rely on. So players either struggle or they just abandon their 10 model kit for a more competitive 10 model kit.
the safest to retire are probably compendium ones, that's the easiest but then again even disregarding compendium there are still many kill teams
Exaction 57% winrate?? I need a contact to someone who know how to play them because they seem awfully weak to me, especially outside of ITD. They are my favorite team and I always thought they needed a buff
High winrate based on data from a single month (that CYRAC acknowledged was a month with a dip in player count, therefore an even smaller sample size than usual) does not mean that Exaction doesn't need a buff. They most definitely do.
Yeah this was only for GT Long which is a smaller pool of games
@@patelliott8282 Sure, I get it, but somehow I can't get over how someone managed to get on the podium after all
So i know its traditional for maps to miss new zealand, but replacing the small chunk of land that is Australia with water is certainly a bold choice. Did their KT community have negative tournaments and were thus banned for their sins?
They got too into Bheta Decima 🫡
@@CanYouRollaCrit despicable. I hear this is why the thunder warriors were purged
So, what buffs and nerfs can we expect?
Covering that soon 👀
It’s funny, I took nemesis just cause they had a low win rate and it felt ridiculous and as soon as I win their rate jumps up and it looks like I took a meta team.
Haha it just took them 2 weeks to get rolling 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit for sure. Hope you’re doing great bro!
Yeah I'm not too bad, hope you're doing well too my dude (:
Where are the chaos cults at?
Less than 30 games so not included
Kasrkin need a buff that doesn’t improve their shooting. Maybe give them another wound?
Nah 9 wound humans doesn't make sense for KT
Line them up model for model vs Tau Pathfinders. Ordinary Pathfinders need two hits to kill a kasrkin. Kasrkin need a hit and a crit to do the same, but are outnumbered and slower. Give Kasrkin the ability to swap a gunner for two ordinary troopers. Or a dog. :) Something that helps against hordes…
An extra regular operative maybe? Kommandos have a lot more wounds and still more activations.
Can't have an extra operative, you'd make their box illegal as it only comes with 10
Bloomin’ GW and their looking out for the consumer…
I don't think there's too many factions; there's an error with the definition. It's like saying that 40K has too many units.
The issue seems to be one of an analytic, differentiated viewpoint vs a systemic, integrated viewpoint, in that each of the bespoke teams is atomic, and so any time a new one is released, another entry is added to the stats pile, and the pile keeps growing.
An extreme example of this skew is considering what the chart would look like if each team's data was again broken-out into archetypal builds, or even just more natural splits, like Avengers, Banshees and Scorpions, for BladesOK, .. -> it would blow out to a couple of pages!
The opposite would happen if either the teams were consolidated into actual factions again, either from a purely statistical standpoint, or by having a 'Compendium V2', where the bespoke teams could be a subset of a roster.
The statistical approach would be simple, but we would then lose some nuance in the data (e.g. Hunter Cadre would become a latent variable, pulling down the Farstalkers, even further).
The more 'official' consolidation approach, would likely require a bit of work and balancing and is also less likely to to be favoured by GW with their 'one box (+ another box to get that extra arm you need) simplified commercial offering'-approach...
...which brings us full circle, back to GW will probably just axe some teams in the 'new edition' 🥴
In the past, they've avoided stating that they're invalidating everything officially (though, they did just dump a load of Sigmar), so don't be surprised if instead, your favourite team suddenly doesn't have access to the new must-have climbing/jump equipment, and so they all have to stand on an open platform in a big firing lane, for the entire game, until you take the hint!
But 40k does have too many units
GW won't balance stuff via equipment or rules etc. Likely we'll see factions consolidated and/or removed
@@CanYouRollaCrit I'm not sure Votann and GSC 40k players would agree, but you're right that it's a lot easier to just remove (already paid for) stuff and make room for (as yet, unpaid for) new stuff.
In 40k's case, if otherwise it does have too many units, then one approach would be to treat all marines, for example, like Deathwatch and consolidate units based on armour types, so there are three types of SM unit (phobos, regular, chunky)... but as a DW collector, I think that's can be even more confusing; at least while they're giving everything an alternative name, so as not to confuse it with the original unit 😵💫
Again... they'd probably just chop stuff.
Where's Australia gone from the map?
Climate change too stronk
🤣At least Tasmania is still there. I appreciate what you do for the community, this especially is super informative.
Haha thanks, glad it's helping (:
Why do you think fellgors dropped so much from their winrate of previous month ?
Their hard match is elites and there has been a resurgence of elites, especially with nemesis claw
Nemesis Claw rising up mostly imo
What? Intercession still better than compendium? Pull out the nerf hammer again!
We must go harder
Oh no, warp coven is under performing? I guess they need another buff : ((((
More sorcerors!
Just give scouts a 10th dude at this point
Nah just give heavy weapons cumbersome and leader just picks anyone on the board for +1APL
Looks like Fellgor need a buff then 🤣
Noooooo 😭
Pity that legionary has fallen that down, feels like they beed some kind of buff
I think they just need minor tweak. Main problem is the rest of the meta
@@CanYouRollaCrit yeah a minor one would be just alright, you are right, the meta is in general becoming stronger and they have fallen to the low B tier and hardly can stand a chance against A tier and especially the S one
Well, Nemesis Claw is a “new” Legionary, so to some extent this was expected. Personally, I think it's a bit of a strange move on GW part
@@Nipponson86 Nemesis is a far more stronger team then the legionary, so its a bit of a shame that if u want to play a decent CSM u need to chose Nemesis, though i still want to play legionary, so they need a slight buff to get updated due to the new teams and meta, otherwise they would be just left behind
Why breachers so weak?
Probably because of the meta around them, they did well last month
wtf does australia not exist
Got sunk during WW3
@@CanYouRollaCrit I love living in atlantis
That's why you all play bheta decima so much
As a gamedesigner the idea that 45-55% winrate difference is ok balancingwise feels so cringe. 48-52% is fine, but more than that means you did something wrong as a gamedesigner.
Kinda, at least they're acknowledging winrates now
@@CanYouRollaCrit true! XD
Am I an idiot or is Australia missing from that first map?
Got blown up by New Zealand
First!
Statistically correct