11:08 as a kid I also designed a Bomberman tabletop game, after two very simple Game of the Goose style games themed after Double Dragon and TMNT. I am now in my early 40s, starting a new full time job (as a dentist office manager, another odd coincidence), and I'm in the "I have a couple good ideas but struggle to turn them into a prototype" stage. Unlocking that memory about the Bomberman game is another nudge towards actually getting some stuff done instead of finding excuses to be lazy (I don't have time, I'm doing research by playing other games, it's probably going to be a waste of time...). This is meant as a thank you for making this channel, what you offer is a very honest perspective about game design, it has been very encouraging. Best of luck with your future projects and again thanks!
Intellectual property is really hard to get, but I still recommend making a game with it - IF it is the spark that gets you going. And as long as you know you'll need to retheme it later if you actually want to sell it. Better to have the spark of motivation vs not. Often a game with I.P. will get my designer brain going and it will lead to other things along the way.
I agree with this - anything which gets the creative juices flowing is a positive. As long as you don’t box yourself into a corner by creating something which can’t easily be rethemed later.
Yep. Retheme it. And then you have a nice bit of lore for your game design. Someone will ask "How did you come up with this game?" and you can tell them you were inspired or influenced by whatever sources you want.
@@wanderlking8634 This is especially great if the original IP has a cult following, but not much outside media representation. If the game is good, and the tie in is clear enough, fans of the IP will want to play it. If you told me there was a game based on the fan-fiction Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, I would have to play it, even if it was released with a theme of fairies vs. goblins.
Dorfromantik is a popular example where the Designers asked the publisher to get the licence for them. And it worked, but surely it's the exception of the rule.
Another example is Slay the Spire: The Boardgame. The designer created it first, and approached publishers and the IP owner after :) But definitely a bit risky (where the "risk" is you'll get a no and be forced to retheme it).
@@jotaf98 Worse than just a "no", you have two additional risks. 1- that the publisher (or IP holder) will go with their own spin on your design. And 2- you generally can't pitch the same game to the same publisher twice, even if you scratch off the serial numbers, as it were.
Thanks again, Adam. I feel privileged to have inspired your video (at least part of it). I have yet to read your book, but it is sitting on my dining room table. I play-tested two copies of the prototype of my card game with students yesterday again and will submit artwork to a manufacturer for a more polished prototype to test with colleagues and their students.
Good advice on niche-ness! An inspiring example is Hegemony. Very niche (political science), very educational, but somehow piqued the interest of lots of people, I guess because class and politics are things that are constantly in the news and discussed by regular people.
Il through out my question here, who know maybe it can inspire a future video! - or the community can help out! I AM STUCK! And have been so for the past 4 years on my board game idea - I have a base game loop, I have had one hugely successful game test - one that the players who where apart of still talk about to this day. 4 years later - the initial version, was something I whipped up easily, however I have no idea how to approach iterating on it, I am getting super overwhelmed by the potential mechanics and systems I can play around with - and since everything builds upon each other, I don't know how to add to new game mechanics to my base game (which basically is a system to battle over resources) Let's say for example, I want to add into the game a King of Tokyo styled shop- a idea I think would fit well, how do I approach that iteration without attempting to design a full new deck of cards? This basically boils down to the problem, my second iteration after the first play test was a bunch of "cool" ideas attempted to be designed fully, and the second play test was not fun at all, but it was also impossible to know why - it could be a bit to many of a certain card- or to few, or maybe the entire mechanic should be scrapped. I am not sure if my rambling here makes sense but ultimately It boils down to - I don't know how to iterate in a smart way, as each idea I have, I feel cant be added without designing a new full deck of cards - which makes identifying problems next to impossible.
Just my thoughts about it: 1)How much would the component cost and how high could be the selling price for your game. If the components are too expensive the overall price would be very high. And then its more unlikely reach a wide appeal. 2)Setup time. If the game meeds a lot of preping time to start the game this will be a turn off for many people and it will not be played very often. 3)Are the components fitting the game weight. In a heavy game I would excpect a lot of components. Not so much in an easy or medium heavy game. Maybe you find a way to reuse components for other purposes. For example markers which are double sided. Or use another way to use components. Insteat of point markers use a track.
@asura899 Yes, the production cost is one of my tasks before Christmas. currently sitting at £80 a unit which includes everything from board to pieces which have been 3d printed for my updated prototype. moulds are the cheapest option for me and should reduce the cost of each unit from £80 to around £20 to make it cost-effective. 2. Prep time, this is actually a timed process of the game and is part of the game. whichever player build their defences and assemble their army first, get to go first. 3. the game is abstract strategy and I would class it as a heavy game but I know it is not as heavy going as Lord of the Rings, Risk, Game of Thrones etc. Yes I would say the components are needed. the pieces you have are divided into 4 different troop types each with specific moves. There is no dice, no cards. total 102 pieces.
@@callumthomson1592 The costs of £20 sounds reasonable.Especially with that many parts inside. The game sounds interesting ;) I wish you all the best with your game and hope to see it in a shop one day. Thanks for the reply ;)
Well, that is sad isn't it. There are soo many games and sooo many game designers so that in order for a game to gain any significant tracion and attentions it must be accesiible as possible. Short , easy to learn and some fun mechanics. And yes the topic can't be too niche. So if I have a game about Nother crusedas where two different European civilisations are duking it out and players are trying to survive for 6 or so hours...I have no chance with publishers because it is too long, too hard and too niche to make any real profit. And they would be probobly right.
11:08 as a kid I also designed a Bomberman tabletop game, after two very simple Game of the Goose style games themed after Double Dragon and TMNT. I am now in my early 40s, starting a new full time job (as a dentist office manager, another odd coincidence), and I'm in the "I have a couple good ideas but struggle to turn them into a prototype" stage. Unlocking that memory about the Bomberman game is another nudge towards actually getting some stuff done instead of finding excuses to be lazy (I don't have time, I'm doing research by playing other games, it's probably going to be a waste of time...).
This is meant as a thank you for making this channel, what you offer is a very honest perspective about game design, it has been very encouraging. Best of luck with your future projects and again thanks!
Intellectual property is really hard to get, but I still recommend making a game with it - IF it is the spark that gets you going. And as long as you know you'll need to retheme it later if you actually want to sell it. Better to have the spark of motivation vs not. Often a game with I.P. will get my designer brain going and it will lead to other things along the way.
I agree with this - anything which gets the creative juices flowing is a positive. As long as you don’t box yourself into a corner by creating something which can’t easily be rethemed later.
Yep. Retheme it. And then you have a nice bit of lore for your game design. Someone will ask "How did you come up with this game?" and you can tell them you were inspired or influenced by whatever sources you want.
@@wanderlking8634 This is especially great if the original IP has a cult following, but not much outside media representation. If the game is good, and the tie in is clear enough, fans of the IP will want to play it. If you told me there was a game based on the fan-fiction Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, I would have to play it, even if it was released with a theme of fairies vs. goblins.
Deep Regrets basically followed this train of thought.
Dorfromantik is a popular example where the Designers asked the publisher to get the licence for them. And it worked, but surely it's the exception of the rule.
Interesting! I didn’t know that :) I’d love to hear more examples of this happening.
Another example is Slay the Spire: The Boardgame. The designer created it first, and approached publishers and the IP owner after :)
But definitely a bit risky (where the "risk" is you'll get a no and be forced to retheme it).
@@jotaf98 Worse than just a "no", you have two additional risks. 1- that the publisher (or IP holder) will go with their own spin on your design. And 2- you generally can't pitch the same game to the same publisher twice, even if you scratch off the serial numbers, as it were.
12:51 That's actually how Star Wars was created; George Lucas wanted to make a Flash Gordon movie, but he couldn't get the rights for a decent price.
Thanks again, Adam. I feel privileged to have inspired your video (at least part of it). I have yet to read your book, but it is sitting on my dining room table. I play-tested two copies of the prototype of my card game with students yesterday again and will submit artwork to a manufacturer for a more polished prototype to test with colleagues and their students.
A very useful video for those of us who are just starting out in this field. Thank you very much.
Love this question! The speed of your video output has been awesome lately too
Good advice on niche-ness! An inspiring example is Hegemony. Very niche (political science), very educational, but somehow piqued the interest of lots of people, I guess because class and politics are things that are constantly in the news and discussed by regular people.
Have you ever been inspired to make a dentistry themed game? That could be fun and educational! 😊
Il through out my question here, who know maybe it can inspire a future video! - or the community can help out!
I AM STUCK! And have been so for the past 4 years on my board game idea - I have a base game loop, I have had one hugely successful game test - one that the players who where apart of still talk about to this day. 4 years later - the initial version, was something I whipped up easily, however I have no idea how to approach iterating on it, I am getting super overwhelmed by the potential mechanics and systems I can play around with - and since everything builds upon each other, I don't know how to add to new game mechanics to my base game (which basically is a system to battle over resources)
Let's say for example, I want to add into the game a King of Tokyo styled shop- a idea I think would fit well, how do I approach that iteration without attempting to design a full new deck of cards?
This basically boils down to the problem, my second iteration after the first play test was a bunch of "cool" ideas attempted to be designed fully, and the second play test was not fun at all, but it was also impossible to know why - it could be a bit to many of a certain card- or to few, or maybe the entire mechanic should be scrapped. I am not sure if my rambling here makes sense but ultimately
It boils down to - I don't know how to iterate in a smart way, as each idea I have, I feel cant be added without designing a new full deck of cards - which makes identifying problems next to impossible.
I had a question and have been looking through your videos for an answer. How many pieces is too many pieces?
Just my thoughts about it:
1)How much would the component cost and how high could be the selling price for your game.
If the components are too expensive the overall price would be very high. And then its more unlikely reach a wide appeal.
2)Setup time. If the game meeds a lot of preping time to start the game this will be a turn off for many people and it will not be played very often.
3)Are the components fitting the game weight. In a heavy game I would excpect a lot of components. Not so much in an easy or medium heavy game.
Maybe you find a way to reuse components for other purposes. For example markers which are double sided.
Or use another way to use components. Insteat of point markers use a track.
@asura899 Yes, the production cost is one of my tasks before Christmas. currently sitting at £80 a unit which includes everything from board to pieces which have been 3d printed for my updated prototype. moulds are the cheapest option for me and should reduce the cost of each unit from £80 to around £20 to make it cost-effective.
2. Prep time, this is actually a timed process of the game and is part of the game. whichever player build their defences and assemble their army first, get to go first.
3. the game is abstract strategy and I would class it as a heavy game but I know it is not as heavy going as Lord of the Rings, Risk, Game of Thrones etc. Yes I would say the components are needed. the pieces you have are divided into 4 different troop types each with specific moves. There is no dice, no cards. total 102 pieces.
@@callumthomson1592 The costs of £20 sounds reasonable.Especially with that many parts inside. The game sounds interesting ;) I wish you all the best with your game and hope to see it in a shop one day. Thanks for the reply ;)
Well, that is sad isn't it. There are soo many games and sooo many game designers so that in order for a game to gain any significant tracion and attentions it must be accesiible as possible. Short , easy to learn and some fun mechanics. And yes the topic can't be too niche.
So if I have a game about Nother crusedas where two different European civilisations are duking it out and players are trying to survive for 6 or so hours...I have no chance with publishers because it is too long, too hard and too niche to make any real profit. And they would be probobly right.
Am I confused or are the questions different from the section labels?
They seem to be unchanged from his last video.
Yes, sorry - it’s a copy/paste issue from the previous video description. I’ll correct it.
@@AdaminWales No worries. Appreciate your content. Thank you for your insights.