Here's a bit more technical info on some of the terms used for guitar amps in general: - BIAS: The adjustment for the polarization of the tube in the circuit, which changes it's operation point (aka how "hot" [higher current] or "cold" [lower current] they run). - FIXED / CATHODE BIAS: The type of biasing circuit used to adjust the tube's polarization. In Cathode bias, there's a component called a Resistor put in between the tubes' cathodes and ground, which limits the current going through them. In Fixed bias, the cathode is connected to ground, and a Negative Voltage is applied to the tubes' control grids, which (as the name implies) controls the current going through the tubes. - SINGLE ENDED: An amplifier that uses a single-phase output circuit (aka it DOESN'T have a phase inverter/splitter). It CAN have more than one tube on the output, but they are working as a single tube to produce the output signal. - PUSH-PULL: Sometimes also called a "Double Ended" amplifier, it's the type that uses a dual-phase output circuit (aka it DOES have a phase inverter/splitter). It can have AT LEAST one PAIR of tubes on the output, but it can have more pairs depending on the power output it's designed to put out (more tubes = more power). - PHASE INVERTER/SPLITTER: It's the circuit that divides the signal for a Push-Pull output circuit. The way Push-Pull amps work, each tube (or pair of tubes) turns on and lets out half of the signal at a time, and for that to be achieved, each tube (or pair of tubes) needs MIRRORED versions of the signal in orded to work in proper sync. - CLASS A/AB/B/C/D: It's the term used for how the device (tube, transistor, integrated circuit) is polarized in orded to work as an amplifier. Class A has the device ALWAYS ON, no matter how much of the signal goes into it. Therefore, it's the most power-hungry and least efficient of the classes (15%-35%), but also the simplest circuit to build. Class B has the device on ONLY WHEN SIGNAL GET TO IT, which means it turns off when there's silence. Therefore, it uses LESS power than Class A for the same power output, being MORE EFFICIENT (65%-75%), but because of the turning off in it not being perfect, it can introduce distortion to the signal being amplified at the near the zero-signal points, or crossover points (causing crossover distortion). Class AB is in-between Class A and B, where the device is ALWAYS ON, but at a lower current than when a signal gets to it, when the current goes up to put out that signal. Therefore, it uses LESS power than Class A but MORE power than Class B, and it's efficiency is also in-between both (50%-70%). It also has less crossover-distortion than Class B, as it doesn't completely turn off at the crossover points. Class C is only used for radio transmition, as it would have too much distortion to be used in audio. However, it's VERY efficient (up to 80%). Class D is the MOST EFFICIENT audio amplifier class there is (over 90%), and it works by turning the devices on and off as needed by the signal being amplified. It is NOT DIGITAL, as it doesn't need to make use of digital logic nor programming to function. You could technically build a Class D Tube Amplifier, but the cost of such a circuit and the gain in efficiency don't add up for anything worth being done by manufacturers nowadays.
@@spastor92 you clearly don't understand amplifiers. But for some reason, you feel like you know enough to make comments like this. Dunning Krueger possibly.... No... Certainly.
Another great video. My favourite thing about this series is that all of Paul's answers are essentially "Well, it's more nuanced than that", which I love. People want easy answers, but it's almost always worth learning the details of something to really get the most out of it; both in terms of results but also satisfaction 👍
As an amp building hobbist I love Paul's care in providing an accurate answer free of broad stereotypical statements. I'd love to spend a few hours picking his brain.
I'm really enjoying this series of videos. What I got from this is that each amp is built around a certain tube to achieve a certain sound. I think it makes more sense if you want a different sound, buy a different amp. Same with speakers. Combo amps are built and tuned around the speaker. Great videos!!!!!
I changed all my valves on my New Vintage Old NOS washing machine and now all my clothes are pretty clean and smooth and the tone of the washing machine were improved.
Great series. I must admit that a lot of it has gone over my head initially, but once I refer to some technical manuals and watch again - I’m sure it will become clearer. Obviously the guests are extremely knowledgeable so I look forward to watching again. Keep up the great work!
Valves do make a (bit) difference, but imho the circuitdesign , voicing and speakerchoice have a bigger impact on the sound. My Diezel Schmidt (EL34, Class A) is closer to a Vox AC30 than a Marshall. It gets quite hot, like all Class A-amps. My Rockerverb head (4 x 6V6) has more of a Marshall-character on the drivechannel, although it has tubes that you find in classic Fenders. The voicing is different, with quite some lowmids. I experimented with several brands of preamptubes and there you can gain imo more sonic wins than with changing the poweramptubes. But the most defining part in the chain is the speaker. Greenback, Creambacks, G12-65, V30's, they make a dramatic difference as does the cabdesign.
Exactly. Everything makes 'a bit' of a difference, but some things a lot less than people are led to believe. The circuit and other components around a particular valve have more effect than the specific valve itself.
You can get a small difference from changing valves but you'll never hear the difference within a band mix. There's much bigger differences to had by changing speakers
Love this series. In my extremely limited experience of only once swapping kinds of tube-valves, the biggest difference I've found is how loud you push before it breaks up and how much unwanted noise gets into the signal. Then again just swapping to new tube-valves over old ones has that effect so who knows.
Love this series! I'm just about to start building my own Fender-style 5E3, and this series is reinforcing a lot of the research I've done over the last months.
Hi All, just to be clear - we weren't trying to claim different valves make no difference (there is certainly something in it), the intention was to show that it's more subtle than some people think. Too many times I've heard or read someone say, "6L6's will make your amp more Fender-like", or the same for 'EL34 = Marshall', when actually there's so many other factors that shape the sound.
A guitarist I worked for though different tubes were different class. He kinda knew what push-pull meant. That being said, he thought all amps with EL84 were class A and 6L6 was AB. IOW, he thought a single ended one tube 6L6 amp was AB. I think that's more common than I used to think.
The only way I was able to make the guess about Artisans was my recall that 6L6 would take more power and might not distort and compress just as much as a result. And I could be completely wrong about this. The sounds were so equal that I just thought one was a tiny bit more open (headroom) and the tiniest bit less distorted than the other. No tonal difference in my ear at all, just the difference in level of cranking them. I've already been ready to abandon all the assumptions that power tubes make a clear difference in sound, but after this demonstration I'll just completely ignore them regarding the sound. The only thing I'll keep is the power take of tube making a difference, where less will distort more and higher would provide more volume cleanly, packing a bit more punch. Small vintage like EL84 amps, regular rock amps like EL34 and the 80's/90's metal favourite KT88 (VHT) being a big puncher. This episode btw had something that I haven't heard anywhere else and what's been a complete misconception for ages. That some drive pedals like tubescream and super overdrive sound more/less valve amp like than the other because of the even/odd harmonics their clipping method produces. Which was, probably in a single sentence, proven horseshit when he said class A (with some other qualities) produces even harmonics that are more pleasing and class A/B (with some other qualities) produces odd harmonics that sound more abrasive. I've got to get that radio handbook. Too bad the full set of amp components and cases costs probably more than what some manufacturers sell their cheaper models for...
I’d love to see a blindfold challenge with Chappers trying to guess the valve type in a handful of otherwise identical amp/cab setups. I bet he’d nail it!
The KT88's in my Blackstar S1 200 are pretty amazing. To me, they sound like the best of 6L6GC's (bass-midbass punch) AND the scream of EL34's. Whether I plug in my strat or my 9-string, it's awesome.
I think a lot of people think tubes impact the sound a lot more than they do because tubes are actually a part of the amp you interact with as a player (you have to replace them every now and again) and thus give them a certain importance. you don't really change the internal circuit or the transformers, although those are in for a much bigger part of the amp's sound (as a sort of proof, I'd mention amp mods touching up the circuit and changing the transformers)
Yes you are right. In many things, people believe what they want to believe. Valves/Tubes are great, but on their own they have NO SOUND. It is only with a complete circuit that they can do anything.
From my experience from owning many vintage tube amplifiers/vintage styled amps , tube rolling and different types equate to more of a "feel" sensation rather than a sonic sensation. I didn't catch any mention of that in the video. Thought I may add. :)
Great series find it fascinating to hear what goes on inside our amps. Can you explain a bit more about what gives a Marshall or Fender a different sound is it just the preamp valves for what else?
Marshall v Fender, there is no one reason for the difference in sound. There are so many different things within the circuits (from input to speaker) and power supplies that all contribute. The problem is that because valves are the things quoted in spec sheets, people latch on to them being the main factor when they are only a part of it.
Excellent, as I am experimenting with various valve at this time, and have experienced huge differences in brands. JJ's vs Tung Sols - vs EHX vs Ruby's vs China.
I swapped-out a JJ 12AX7 for a Tung-Sol 12AX7, in the V1 position in my Dark Terror. It was supposed to give the shape control more headroom. I ended up putting the JJ back in, as I liked the tone better. I strictly use JJs in both my Orange amps (Dark Terror & TH30 head).
@@nitegoat1369 Honestly, I'm beginning to believe that the JJ's are definitely a solid go to tube. For some reason I'm having noise issues and failures with the Tung Sols EL 84's although when they are working they sound the best. Can't figure out the problem with them as my amp is cathode biased. The 12ax7's are fine. I'm goin to bite the bullet and order some 7189's for the power stage.
This has been a great instructional video. Question if you may: why is there an ACC83 preamp valve inside a cilinder on a Marshall JVM 410H? What does that do? And... which tubes are more frequently to be changed preamp or power amp? Cheers.
It's written into our company rule book. We don't do voodoo, magic or guruism. Science and engineering. The magic comes with the music you make hopefully.
Blackstar Amplification Well :), anyway thanks for being so honest and not trying to use this as an opportunity to create a confusing magical aura like some do. All these videos increased my interest against Blackstar even more although I already got two Blackstar amps. As for the musical magic it is still pending :)...errm under construction.
Questions for vol.4: Does Blackstar think to do a non digital solid state amp? Which is their best selling amp? What is that makes us think that valve amps sound better? Is it because valve amps have more uneven signal output compared to transistor amps?
Valve is short for 'thermionic valve', an electronic device that controls the flow of electrons in one direction. Tubes are a) what we travel in under London, or b) what Smarties come in.
From owning and gigging loads of amps the main things that affect the tone are, in my opinion, volume and speaker efficiency. They both affect compression and that is what defines the tone.
Magnetic saturation in a single ended vs. push pull output transformer is very different. I think that is one of the leading reasons they have different tone. It changes how the amp controls the speaker cone.
Different thing again, and also this can be very subtle, depending on the volume level. No one type is 'better', but some older designs depend on the power supply 'sag' with valve rectifiers to get their signature sound. Most modern amps greatly benefit from the higher headroom and better reliability that silicon diodes give,
Blackstar Amplification Thanks for the response, I was specifically wondering about the Vox AC4 Handwired, they used a solid state rectifier in it, but a Tube Rectifier in the Handwired Ac15 & Ac30 models. Will it make the AC4 sound different? Was it to do with the smaller wattage? Cost cutting? I also heard that class A amps aren’t effected by tube rectification the same way as class A/AB amps? Thanks!
I changed my EL34's to 6L6 in my burgera and the 6L6 has more headroom and more bass but the difference is subtle. I have had more difference by changing the preamp tubes to lower gain and turning the master up more. It gave more headroom but on full tilt more clarity. I understand Stevie Ray did this.
I remember taking 6v6gt out of my aor30 and bunging in EL34 valves thinking I could make it louder. Couldn't get chassis back in combo and didn't hear increase in volume. Using a 212 extension probably would have helped.
I thought you'd mention testing and the difference between say a cheap 12ax7 and a high quality 12ax7 that has passed stringent qc testing because there you can definitely hear the difference.
Yes you often can hear the difference of particularly bad/cheap 12AX7/ECC83's (depending on the actual circuit) but normally the bigger problems are things like noise and microphonics. They are the main reasons valves are rejected.
probably a difficult area to get into, even after all these years, with patent lawyers everywhere, but wasn't the original bassman power stage the progenitor of almost everything from marshall to sound city to orange...? again, with the available bottles, there are only certain circuit topologies that actually make sense.... & what about output transformers? ampeg bass amps sound better in the bottom octave because the o/p transformers are huge....
On vintage amps, with vintage tubes, the valves make a huge difference in sound. On modern and more complex amps, and with current production valves, I guess it matters much less.
I can hear a massive difference on some amps. The original JCM800s had 6550s in the US versions. IMO the JCM800 sounds better with EL34s. But I swap preamp tubes all the time and it does change the sound. Not all tubes are created equally either.
Yes, the difference are more obviously on different amps. The simpler the amp the more difference is likely to be heard. Modern designs are often more consistent with different valves in.
I change mine when they're getting knackered. Then it makes a massive difference. Makes me wonder how many people ever actually wear their valves out, these days, and how many would recognise knackered valves or even realise that they do wear out?
I wore out the power tubes on my TH30 head, after only about 5 hours of use. I have yet to wear out the power tubes on my Dark Terror, after about 50 hours of use. I think having my TH30 head in a storage unit during a Michigan winter, may have caused them to fail early. It gets -20 degrees F here in the winter. Yes, that's minus 20 degrees F. There was no mistaking the tubes were shot. There was a drastic decrease in tone, volume, then no volume at all. After checking the fuse, speaker cables, guitar, guitar cables, pedalboard cables/power source, pedals, and amp power cord, there was no doubt it was the power tubes. I bought a new matched quad set, replaced them, and my amp came back to life.
I have a Vox AC-15, with 7 valves and a valve rectifier. The newer EL-84s have wider glass than the old ones; I had to drill out the metal surround in order to fit the newer EL-84s. Nobody mentioned that they are wider than they used to be. These wider valves won't fit the old Vox amps. I blew two Sovtek valves very quickly; I'm using Yugoslavian valves and any old EL-84s I can find.
Yeah they are wider for sure. Actually, some of the tube shop websites do mention that they're wider and won't fit in certain amps (some Voxes included I believe).
The difference is by the size of the tube, el34s and 6l6s sound similar because they are big tubes, all these mini heads you see coming out sound like crap cause they use tiny el84 tubes
I’m not some audio but or even care about things really but I heard a difference between them and I didn’t think it was so small that it wouldn’t make a difference maybe with pedal it would be less noticeable but just as is I thought each one sounded different from the next.
Yes, there are differences we agree, but out point was to disprove a popular myth that 6L6 = Fender sound and EL34 = Marshall sound, when actually that is only one of the many factors.
I don't care where my valves come from, I will put pretty much any brand these days in my ac30. now If I could change the power amp section to a solid state, then I would. maybe I will research it one day.
Yay I hope you use my question ill ask again :). I'm wondering a little bit about how amps have changed over the years in the gain sections of the pre amp stages. How do we get such high amounts of gain using the same tubes we have used in grandpas country playing amp but in today's amps. My main reason is because I play metal music and i' m curious to know how and if driving the tubes to such high gain and distorted amounts is there is more wear over shorter time or anything to the tubes .
The way they achieve more gain is by simply using more preamp tubes one after another. Each stage multiplies the signal level, and as the gain rises you'll get more distortion. Remember - gain and distortion are NOT the same. Gain is just the idea of increasing the signal/volume level. Distortion is the actual misshapen, distorted signal, which is a result of hitting tubes with a strong signal, clipping it. Distortion can also be causes by purposely unbalancing/cold biasing a stage. In a preamp, extra gain and distortion won't really wear the tubes much more than normal. Preamp tubes rarely die. I have plenty of heavily used 40-60 year old tubes.
There can be different reasons for this. One is adding more valve stage, known as 'cascading', so that one stage drives another into more distortion. a clean amp may only have 1 or 2 stages, where a high gain could have up to 5 or even six. Also the valves operating conditions can be set to produce more gain. Another common what it to use solid-state components (transistors, FET's, opamps, diodes, LED's etc or combinations of these) to either add more gain therefore drive themselves, or to be part of the distortion generating circuits themselves. Driving preamp valves harder will have little effect on their lifespan as this doesn't actually change the current flow through them that much. Hope this helps. Paul.
Imagine that there were tubes that were discontinued before guitar amplifiers that would be an entire new sound that we’ve never heard if they were used.
Unplug your main voltage. Turn it on. Let it bleed. okay now it might not kill you or hurt so much. If you want to be really careful this is where you gingerly open it up but jump the hot side of the capacitors through a fat wire wound resistor to ground and get rid of all those free electrons and render it totally inert. ONLY use One (1) hand and don't touch ANYTHING ELSE with your other (2nd) hand if you get cocky and start groping around in a plugged-in amplifier. 300-500 volts hurts pretty bad and can kill you, especially if you're gripping the earth (grounded terminal).
Actually anything much over 50 volts can easily hurt you. Even less voltage can kill you if you try hard enough. If you don't know how many volts are available at each wire maybe you shouldn't be looking at them. YMMV😸
It sounds to me like one of the heads is compressing a bit more... The tail of the note falls off more organically on one than the other. That said it's a very slight difference
Probably biased (haha) as a physicist I would have loved to just hear the engineer guy spend and hour answering each question, and not having Lee interrupt all the time and reduce it to laymans terms, but I guess you can't have it all - still a great video though :)
Rasmus Laurberg Hansen Not dissing Lee at all, but I would just love to listen to this guy for days, him saying “well it’s not that simple” and then geeking out on what it really is. Great series Lee, thank you.
Here's a bit more technical info on some of the terms used for guitar amps in general:
- BIAS: The adjustment for the polarization of the tube in the circuit, which changes it's operation point (aka how "hot" [higher current] or "cold" [lower current] they run).
- FIXED / CATHODE BIAS: The type of biasing circuit used to adjust the tube's polarization. In Cathode bias, there's a component called a Resistor put in between the tubes' cathodes and ground, which limits the current going through them. In Fixed bias, the cathode is connected to ground, and a Negative Voltage is applied to the tubes' control grids, which (as the name implies) controls the current going through the tubes.
- SINGLE ENDED: An amplifier that uses a single-phase output circuit (aka it DOESN'T have a phase inverter/splitter). It CAN have more than one tube on the output, but they are working as a single tube to produce the output signal.
- PUSH-PULL: Sometimes also called a "Double Ended" amplifier, it's the type that uses a dual-phase output circuit (aka it DOES have a phase inverter/splitter). It can have AT LEAST one PAIR of tubes on the output, but it can have more pairs depending on the power output it's designed to put out (more tubes = more power).
- PHASE INVERTER/SPLITTER: It's the circuit that divides the signal for a Push-Pull output circuit. The way Push-Pull amps work, each tube (or pair of tubes) turns on and lets out half of the signal at a time, and for that to be achieved, each tube (or pair of tubes) needs MIRRORED versions of the signal in orded to work in proper sync.
- CLASS A/AB/B/C/D: It's the term used for how the device (tube, transistor, integrated circuit) is polarized in orded to work as an amplifier.
Class A has the device ALWAYS ON, no matter how much of the signal goes into it. Therefore, it's the most power-hungry and least efficient of the classes (15%-35%), but also the simplest circuit to build.
Class B has the device on ONLY WHEN SIGNAL GET TO IT, which means it turns off when there's silence. Therefore, it uses LESS power than Class A for the same power output, being MORE EFFICIENT (65%-75%), but because of the turning off in it not being perfect, it can introduce distortion to the signal being amplified at the near the zero-signal points, or crossover points (causing crossover distortion).
Class AB is in-between Class A and B, where the device is ALWAYS ON, but at a lower current than when a signal gets to it, when the current goes up to put out that signal. Therefore, it uses LESS power than Class A but MORE power than Class B, and it's efficiency is also in-between both (50%-70%). It also has less crossover-distortion than Class B, as it doesn't completely turn off at the crossover points.
Class C is only used for radio transmition, as it would have too much distortion to be used in audio. However, it's VERY efficient (up to 80%).
Class D is the MOST EFFICIENT audio amplifier class there is (over 90%), and it works by turning the devices on and off as needed by the signal being amplified. It is NOT DIGITAL, as it doesn't need to make use of digital logic nor programming to function. You could technically build a Class D Tube Amplifier, but the cost of such a circuit and the gain in efficiency don't add up for anything worth being done by manufacturers nowadays.
blackcorvo thanks for sharing your knowledge
Thank you. Could not have put it better myself. Or maybe I could if I'd had more time. Either way, yes, what he just said.
Amplifier classes has nothing to do with being on and off when there is signal, has more to do with the design of the electronics.
@@spastor92 you clearly don't understand amplifiers.
But for some reason, you feel like you know enough to make comments like this.
Dunning Krueger possibly.... No... Certainly.
@@ryans9029 class B amplifiers has nothing to do with power turning off when there is no signal. WTF
I changed valves in my Kemper and it made a huge difference. First i got smoking sounds, the burning sounds, then explosions.
I put a capo on my valves.....that definitely made a difference !!
I true bypassed my valves. Much better.
I think one of my valves sounds better than the other because I'm biased
I heard the first tube amp was used during the enlightenment but I think the person that told my that story seem a bit biased.
I think you did it wrong.
I converted all my tubes to true bypass so they won’t wear out. It’s very transparent now. I can only hear the acoustic sound of my electric guitar.
Bwahahaha
Another great video. My favourite thing about this series is that all of Paul's answers are essentially "Well, it's more nuanced than that", which I love. People want easy answers, but it's almost always worth learning the details of something to really get the most out of it; both in terms of results but also satisfaction 👍
As an amp building hobbist I love Paul's care in providing an accurate answer free of broad stereotypical statements. I'd love to spend a few hours picking his brain.
Hi. Thanks for watching, I'm glad these are being received well.
This has become such a great series of videos. Well done!
Thank you , it means a lot that it's being enjoyed and found informative, Paul.
I'm enjoying this series, Captain. Bring on part four! Oh, and that's a mighty sweet axe you got there sir!
It's on its way, glad you're enjoying it. I'm also now glad they talked me into it, Paul.
I'm really enjoying this series of videos. What I got from this is that each amp is built around a certain tube to achieve a certain sound. I think it makes more sense if you want a different sound, buy a different amp. Same with speakers. Combo amps are built and tuned around the speaker. Great videos!!!!!
I changed all my valves on my New Vintage Old NOS washing machine and now all my clothes are pretty clean and smooth and the tone of the washing machine were improved.
I love geeking out on this stuff. Thanks for the free education!
Glad you're enjoying it. Thanks, Paul.
Fantastic series of videos. Great idea and well executed. Kudos guys.
Thanks. Considering the minimal preparation it's not too bad. Paul
Better than any uni lecture I ever attended. Great job.
Glad you enjoyed it, Paul.
I like how an advertisement popped up right in the middle of comparing two sounds. It wrecked the purpose of the video. Oh, commerce!
Great series. I must admit that a lot of it has gone over my head initially, but once I refer to some technical manuals and watch again - I’m sure it will become clearer. Obviously the guests are extremely knowledgeable so I look forward to watching again. Keep up the great work!
I'm glad you're enjoying it. Paul.
Valves do make a (bit) difference, but imho the circuitdesign , voicing and speakerchoice have a bigger impact on the sound. My Diezel Schmidt (EL34, Class A) is closer to a Vox AC30 than a Marshall. It gets quite hot, like all Class A-amps. My Rockerverb head (4 x 6V6) has more of a Marshall-character on the drivechannel, although it has tubes that you find in classic Fenders. The voicing is different, with quite some lowmids. I experimented with several brands of preamptubes and there you can gain imo more sonic wins than with changing the poweramptubes. But the most defining part in the chain is the speaker. Greenback, Creambacks, G12-65, V30's, they make a dramatic difference as does the cabdesign.
Stroopwafel 61 number f speakers and open/closed back makes a huge difference. Incas stunned how much better a 4x sounds compared to a 2x.
Exactly. Everything makes 'a bit' of a difference, but some things a lot less than people are led to believe. The circuit and other components around a particular valve have more effect than the specific valve itself.
You can get a small difference from changing valves but you'll never hear the difference within a band mix. There's much bigger differences to had by changing speakers
Good call, Cap! I picked out the EL-34s too - but only with Overdrive on.
"...and see what *that* smells like."
Escaping pixies. It smells like escaping pixies.
Is that what blue smoke smells like? It did have a magic aroma.
Childhood memories...
Hats off to the guy from Blackstar Very informed
This was the best series I have seen re: amps and tubes. So much learned from mr. blackstar as he ripped off facts. The best ever.
Thanks for watching, glad it was worthwhile. Paul.
Love this series.
In my extremely limited experience of only once swapping kinds of tube-valves, the biggest difference I've found is how loud you push before it breaks up and how much unwanted noise gets into the signal. Then again just swapping to new tube-valves over old ones has that effect so who knows.
Love this series! I'm just about to start building my own Fender-style 5E3, and this series is reinforcing a lot of the research I've done over the last months.
I hope you keep doing these in-depth videos, they are really great.
I love this series more please great stuff
Glad you're enjoying it. Thanks, Paul.
You should have brought rob with you, he would've been like "man a hell of a difference" :D
Jacob Cardiff Yes I know. But do you certainly know when this video has been shot? I doubt it.
I read that quote in his voice HAHAHA
@@goodnightmediaintl not gonna lie... yep, did that too!
Of course with his ears, he probably legitimately could have correctly identified the different tubes!
Hi All, just to be clear - we weren't trying to claim different valves make no difference (there is certainly something in it), the intention was to show that it's more subtle than some people think. Too many times I've heard or read someone say, "6L6's will make your amp more Fender-like", or the same for 'EL34 = Marshall', when actually there's so many other factors that shape the sound.
I read somewhere that EL84s were used in Vox Amps because they were the only ones that would fit in the cabinet they’d designed.
Love the look of that guitar..
EXCELLENT discussion and demonstrations.
i have a homemade champ with a celestion g10 alnico it's very loud and sounds great ( i might be a little bias )
Cool series, though I would enjoy the longer, geeky answers, but I understand the need to keep it simple. Thanks Lee
A guitarist I worked for though different tubes were different class. He kinda knew what push-pull meant. That being said, he thought all amps with EL84 were class A and 6L6 was AB. IOW, he thought a single ended one tube 6L6 amp was AB. I think that's more common than I used to think.
I love my Vox ac 15 & my Fender Deluxe Reverb played together..it sounds amazing!
The only way I was able to make the guess about Artisans was my recall that 6L6 would take more power and might not distort and compress just as much as a result. And I could be completely wrong about this. The sounds were so equal that I just thought one was a tiny bit more open (headroom) and the tiniest bit less distorted than the other. No tonal difference in my ear at all, just the difference in level of cranking them.
I've already been ready to abandon all the assumptions that power tubes make a clear difference in sound, but after this demonstration I'll just completely ignore them regarding the sound. The only thing I'll keep is the power take of tube making a difference, where less will distort more and higher would provide more volume cleanly, packing a bit more punch. Small vintage like EL84 amps, regular rock amps like EL34 and the 80's/90's metal favourite KT88 (VHT) being a big puncher.
This episode btw had something that I haven't heard anywhere else and what's been a complete misconception for ages. That some drive pedals like tubescream and super overdrive sound more/less valve amp like than the other because of the even/odd harmonics their clipping method produces. Which was, probably in a single sentence, proven horseshit when he said class A (with some other qualities) produces even harmonics that are more pleasing and class A/B (with some other qualities) produces odd harmonics that sound more abrasive.
I've got to get that radio handbook. Too bad the full set of amp components and cases costs probably more than what some manufacturers sell their cheaper models for...
I’d love to see a blindfold challenge with Chappers trying to guess the valve type in a handful of otherwise identical amp/cab setups. I bet he’d nail it!
The KT88's in my Blackstar S1 200 are pretty amazing. To me, they sound like the best of 6L6GC's (bass-midbass punch) AND the scream of EL34's. Whether I plug in my strat or my 9-string, it's awesome.
I think a lot of people think tubes impact the sound a lot more than they do because tubes are actually a part of the amp you interact with as a player (you have to replace them every now and again) and thus give them a certain importance. you don't really change the internal circuit or the transformers, although those are in for a much bigger part of the amp's sound (as a sort of proof, I'd mention amp mods touching up the circuit and changing the transformers)
Yes you are right. In many things, people believe what they want to believe. Valves/Tubes are great, but on their own they have NO SOUND. It is only with a complete circuit that they can do anything.
Looper pedals would be a good idea for these A/B tests, so you get the exact same signal going in.
We actually do that sort of thing in product development. We've all got TC 'Wiretap's on our benches for that reason.
My Tech put KT 88's on my marshall when I burned up my EL34's , we had great results ,sounded awesome and has been reliable . FWIW.
Yes they normally would add a lot more headroom. As long as they can fit physically.
From my experience from owning many vintage tube amplifiers/vintage styled amps , tube rolling and different types equate to more of a "feel" sensation rather than a sonic sensation. I didn't catch any mention of that in the video. Thought I may add. :)
Back when I worked in Electronics I would describe the smell of burned out transformer as a "loud brown smell". Great video, thanks.
Loving this series of videos, cheers Lee.
Great video. Cheers! Paul, for all your insight. Very educational.
Thanks, glad it's useful. Paul
Great series find it fascinating to hear what goes on inside our amps. Can you explain a bit more about what gives a Marshall or Fender a different sound is it just the preamp valves for what else?
Marshall v Fender, there is no one reason for the difference in sound. There are so many different things within the circuits (from input to speaker) and power supplies that all contribute. The problem is that because valves are the things quoted in spec sheets, people latch on to them being the main factor when they are only a part of it.
Excellent… well done
Awesome video. This is starting to make sense to me now. Thanks guys.
Glad they are helping! Thanks, Paul.
"And see what that smells like" !!! :) Great line!
Nice to see Necrobutcher working for Blackstar Amps!!! Good for him!!!
Danny Carey and now Necrobutcher !!!! These aren't the normal comparisons I get. But, 'don't even point'...
Excellent, as I am experimenting with various valve at this time, and have experienced huge differences in brands. JJ's vs Tung Sols - vs EHX vs Ruby's vs China.
I swapped-out a JJ 12AX7 for a Tung-Sol 12AX7, in the V1 position in my Dark Terror. It was supposed to give the shape control more headroom. I ended up putting the JJ back in, as I liked the tone better. I strictly use JJs in both my Orange amps (Dark Terror & TH30 head).
@@nitegoat1369 Honestly, I'm beginning to believe that the JJ's are definitely a solid go to tube. For some reason I'm having noise issues and failures with the Tung Sols EL 84's although when they are working they sound the best. Can't figure out the problem with them as my amp is cathode biased. The 12ax7's are fine. I'm goin to bite the bullet and order some 7189's for the power stage.
This serie is awsome, thanks guys.
Great stuff! Can't wait for part 4 :)
Lee, please give this guy a stage to profess his wisdom down into the weeds of the non layman's terms for us nerds.
This is a great series. Thanks so much.
This has been a great instructional video. Question if you may: why is there an ACC83 preamp valve inside a cilinder on a Marshall JVM 410H? What does that do? And... which tubes are more frequently to be changed preamp or power amp? Cheers.
Thank you Blackstar for being so honest.
It's written into our company rule book. We don't do voodoo, magic or guruism. Science and engineering. The magic comes with the music you make hopefully.
Blackstar Amplification Well :), anyway thanks for being so honest and not trying to use this as an opportunity to create a confusing magical aura like some do. All these videos increased my interest against Blackstar even more although I already got two Blackstar amps. As for the musical magic it is still pending :)...errm under construction.
excellent series.....very enlightening....
Questions for vol.4: Does Blackstar think to do a non digital solid state amp? Which is their best selling amp? What is that makes us think that valve amps sound better? Is it because valve amps have more uneven signal output compared to transistor amps?
Do they sound different when you call them tubes instead of valves?...maybe Eric Johnson can answer this...;)
"Tubes" has a rounder sound.
Valves have to open and close, like a noise gate, so you get a more pronounced attack
Also, are EL firty-fours different sounding to EL Thirty-fours? I’m trying to decide which ones to go wiv.
Valve is short for 'thermionic valve', an electronic device that controls the flow of electrons in one direction. Tubes are a) what we travel in under London, or b) what Smarties come in.
@@andrewmoseley4029 Are you making fun of my Essex accent? You're not the first. What were they finking, getting me to talk on this?
Great video. I was worried about that screwdriver through.
I’m surprised they didn’t touch on 6550 as a swap for el34. Definitely needs to be biased but it sounds so much better inside the Marshall’s.
From owning and gigging loads of amps the main things that affect the tone are, in my opinion, volume and speaker efficiency. They both affect compression and that is what defines the tone.
I think we covered some of that in episode 2.
You sure did
Magnetic saturation in a single ended vs. push pull output transformer is very different. I think that is one of the leading reasons they have different tone. It changes how the amp controls the speaker cone.
decent guitar + decent tube amp + tube screamer and a reverb(in case amp don’t have) i can literally live forever. 😁
Please talk about Rectifier Valve/tube vs Solid State differences.
Mesa boogie covers this topic pretty well. After all the tube Rectifier/Solid state switch is what give the Dual Rec its name.
I would love to see that test with two super reverbs cranked.
Different thing again, and also this can be very subtle, depending on the volume level. No one type is 'better', but some older designs depend on the power supply 'sag' with valve rectifiers to get their signature sound. Most modern amps greatly benefit from the higher headroom and better reliability that silicon diodes give,
Blackstar Amplification Thanks for the response, I was specifically wondering about the Vox AC4 Handwired, they used a solid state rectifier in it, but a Tube Rectifier in the Handwired Ac15 & Ac30 models.
Will it make the AC4 sound different?
Was it to do with the smaller wattage?
Cost cutting?
I also heard that class A amps aren’t effected by tube rectification the same way as class A/AB amps?
Thanks!
Great series - I've learned a great deal!
Thank you. They forced me to do it against my will! This makes it worthwhile.
Im digging this series.
I changed my EL34's to 6L6 in my burgera and the 6L6 has more headroom and more bass but the difference is subtle. I have had more difference by changing the preamp tubes to lower gain and turning the master up more. It gave more headroom but on full tilt more clarity. I understand Stevie Ray did this.
Burgera... is that made by McDonalds ?
Nice series guys. Explaining how to use a stand-by switch would be helpful. Lot's of conflicting advice on the web. tx
I think that comes in the final episode. Paul
I remember taking 6v6gt out of my aor30 and bunging in EL34 valves thinking I could make it louder. Couldn't get chassis back in combo and didn't hear increase in volume.
Using a 212 extension probably would have helped.
It is not that easy, and yes you are rigtht with the cab.
Just as well you didn't: As EL34's have a heater current of more than 3 times 6V6's then you may have burnt out your mains transformer.
Lapping this up
This should be mandatory watching for all tech minded geeky noobies like me
I thought you'd mention testing and the difference between say a cheap 12ax7 and a high quality 12ax7 that has passed stringent qc testing because there you can definitely hear the difference.
Yes you often can hear the difference of particularly bad/cheap 12AX7/ECC83's (depending on the actual circuit) but normally the bigger problems are things like noise and microphonics. They are the main reasons valves are rejected.
This video contains excellent information!
probably a difficult area to get into, even after all these years, with patent lawyers everywhere, but wasn't the original bassman power stage the progenitor of almost everything from marshall to sound city to orange...? again, with the available bottles, there are only certain circuit topologies that actually make sense....
& what about output transformers? ampeg bass amps sound better in the bottom octave because the o/p transformers are huge....
Man alive, loving your boots Paul! 👌🏻
Thank you. Someone earlier suggested they were my 'wife's'. Don't tell my girlfriend that.
On vintage amps, with vintage tubes, the valves make a huge difference in sound. On modern and more complex amps, and with current production valves, I guess it matters much less.
I can hear a massive difference on some amps. The original JCM800s had 6550s in the US versions. IMO the JCM800 sounds better with EL34s. But I swap preamp tubes all the time and it does change the sound. Not all tubes are created equally either.
Yes, the difference are more obviously on different amps. The simpler the amp the more difference is likely to be heard. Modern designs are often more consistent with different valves in.
They are plenty of us that like the tech talk rather than layman's terms. maybe a Anderton's tech talk channel huh?
I change mine when they're getting knackered. Then it makes a massive difference. Makes me wonder how many people ever actually wear their valves out, these days, and how many would recognise knackered valves or even realise that they do wear out?
I wore out the power tubes on my TH30 head, after only about 5 hours of use. I have yet to wear out the power tubes on my Dark Terror, after about 50 hours of use.
I think having my TH30 head in a storage unit during a Michigan winter, may have caused them to fail early. It gets -20 degrees F here in the winter. Yes, that's minus 20 degrees F.
There was no mistaking the tubes were shot. There was a drastic decrease in tone, volume, then no volume at all. After checking the fuse, speaker cables, guitar, guitar cables, pedalboard cables/power source, pedals, and amp power cord, there was no doubt it was the power tubes. I bought a new matched quad set, replaced them, and my amp came back to life.
I have a Vox AC-15, with 7 valves and a valve rectifier. The newer EL-84s have wider glass than the old ones; I had to drill out the metal surround in order to fit the newer EL-84s. Nobody mentioned that they are wider than they used to be. These wider valves won't fit the old Vox amps. I blew two Sovtek valves very quickly; I'm using Yugoslavian valves and any old EL-84s I can find.
Yeah they are wider for sure. Actually, some of the tube shop websites do mention that they're wider and won't fit in certain amps (some Voxes included I believe).
Really great series!!!
Just bought HT40 combo with V30 speaker. Huge amp next to my HT5 combo
Been digging through the comments, but I haven't seen... What is the guitar Cap's got there?
Loving these videos.
What guitar is that?
jkcymbal Gordon Smith.
thank you @@joerobinson6199
The difference is by the size of the tube, el34s and 6l6s sound similar because they are big tubes, all these mini heads you see coming out sound like crap cause they use tiny el84 tubes
Before turning on your amp you should check your valve fluid levels!
Mr. Lee, what blue guitar is that ur playing, sounds good , i think i like it.
Gordon Smith GS1000 in Nene Blue
Informative as always
I’m not some audio but or even care about things really but I heard a difference between them and I didn’t think it was so small that it wouldn’t make a difference maybe with pedal it would be less noticeable but just as is I thought each one sounded different from the next.
Yes, there are differences we agree, but out point was to disprove a popular myth that 6L6 = Fender sound and EL34 = Marshall sound, when actually that is only one of the many factors.
I don't care where my valves come from, I will put pretty much any brand these days in my ac30. now If I could change the power amp section to a solid state, then I would. maybe I will research it one day.
Yay I hope you use my question ill ask again :). I'm wondering a little bit about how amps have changed over the years in the gain sections of the pre amp stages. How do we get such high amounts of gain using the same tubes we have used in grandpas country playing amp but in today's amps. My main reason is because I play metal music and i' m curious to know how and if driving the tubes to such high gain and distorted amounts is there is more wear over shorter time or anything to the tubes .
The way they achieve more gain is by simply using more preamp tubes one after another. Each stage multiplies the signal level, and as the gain rises you'll get more distortion. Remember - gain and distortion are NOT the same. Gain is just the idea of increasing the signal/volume level. Distortion is the actual misshapen, distorted signal, which is a result of hitting tubes with a strong signal, clipping it.
Distortion can also be causes by purposely unbalancing/cold biasing a stage.
In a preamp, extra gain and distortion won't really wear the tubes much more than normal. Preamp tubes rarely die. I have plenty of heavily used 40-60 year old tubes.
@@JulianA-tr6pt Interesting thanks for that information. I guess I have always thought that HIGH GAIN amps ment more Distortion.
There can be different reasons for this. One is adding more valve stage, known as 'cascading', so that one stage drives another into more distortion. a clean amp may only have 1 or 2 stages, where a high gain could have up to 5 or even six. Also the valves operating conditions can be set to produce more gain. Another common what it to use solid-state components (transistors, FET's, opamps, diodes, LED's etc or combinations of these) to either add more gain therefore drive themselves, or to be part of the distortion generating circuits themselves. Driving preamp valves harder will have little effect on their lifespan as this doesn't actually change the current flow through them that much. Hope this helps. Paul.
Yay Thanks for responding. So is it still common practice to use Op Amps in what they say are (All Tube) amps?@@Blackstaramps
How many of you folks that watched this ??? Ever watch the guitar gear tech talk .. that TKK and Jeff Diamant of diamond guitars used to host ....
Imagine that there were tubes that were discontinued before guitar amplifiers that would be an entire new sound that we’ve never heard if they were used.
Unplug your main voltage. Turn it on. Let it bleed. okay now it might not kill you or hurt so much.
If you want to be really careful this is where you gingerly open it up but jump the hot side of the capacitors through a fat wire wound resistor to ground and get rid of all those free electrons and render it totally inert.
ONLY use One (1) hand and don't touch ANYTHING ELSE with your other (2nd) hand if you get cocky and start groping around in a plugged-in amplifier. 300-500 volts hurts pretty bad and can kill you, especially if you're gripping the earth (grounded terminal).
Actually anything much over 50 volts can easily hurt you. Even less voltage can kill you if you try hard enough. If you don't know how many volts are available at each wire maybe you shouldn't be looking at them. YMMV😸
Thank you sir, may I have another?
It sounds to me like one of the heads is compressing a bit more... The tail of the note falls off more organically on one than the other. That said it's a very slight difference
Probably biased (haha) as a physicist I would have loved to just hear the engineer guy spend and hour answering each question, and not having Lee interrupt all the time and reduce it to laymans terms, but I guess you can't have it all - still a great video though :)
Rasmus Laurberg Hansen Not dissing Lee at all, but I would just love to listen to this guy for days, him saying “well it’s not that simple” and then geeking out on what it really is. Great series Lee, thank you.
Hi, I'm glad you've enjoyed and found it useful.
Preamp Tubes? Some difference.
Power Amp Tubes? Less difference.
Bias? More difference.
Tone Stack? The most difference.
Yes, everything has some difference, some things much less than others.
What guitar is The Cap. holding?
It would have been interesting to check the same tube from two different batches to see how much difference that makes. \
what books are those?I want them. I also want the amps but the books would be easier to get.
What's the model of the guitar?
"Tube" refers to the shape of the glass "Valve" is what it does - regulate the flow of electrons. .....