Engaging Tim Keller on Hermeneutics
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- Опубликовано: 19 дек 2022
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The first time I read a Tim Keller book I thought to myself, "I never read any of this in the Bible."
I extensively studied scripture for a year privately when I was saved and bought a large amount of resources to do it.
I came out of study largely in agreement with the reformed camp. And I found myself in agreement with and edified by commentary/literature by DrMLJ, JohnEds, Spurgeon, Luther, Pink.
But... when I read stuff by Keller, I was largely repulsed by the amount of doctrinal error present in his teachings.
I’m as reformed and doctrinally conservative as they come but when you live amongst the brainwashed abyss that is NYC for 25 years you start to appreciate Keller and his ability to pry open the brains of the leftist cult. He is like a gateway drug, and I still don’t see any doctrinal errors. It’s just emphasis on certain aspects of Scripture and it’s nothing CS Lewis’s wasn’t doing 80 years before.
“ New questions that haven’t been asked before?”
If I’m coming up with something that hasn’t been brought out in 2000 years of church history, it’s heresy.
This is probably true in most cases.
Probably. I would argue there are questions that have to asked and answered in relation to the moral and spiritual ramifications of modern technology. Transplants, transfusions, comfort care, refusing treatment, etc., to say nothing of the transhumanism business. Don't misunderstand me, God's Word properly exegeted does provide answers to these questions, but they are new questions to some degree.
Tim would say his insights are all already in Lewis and Edwards etc. going all the way back to Paul. - Half of Tim’s points are basically just C.S. Lewis quotes.
Jon, It hasn’t escaped my notice that you have slowed down when reading aloud. Thank you very much. ❤
EXCELLENT analysis of problems with Keller's view of the moral law!
Excellent video Jon thank you.
Thank you very much for dissecting this book about Keller.
Thank you.
Wouldn't you think D.A. Carson, who wrote Exegetical Fallacies and is Keller's colleague in founding TGC, would call him out for this sloppy hermeneutic?
No. That's because Carson commits the very same errors!
@@ThomasCranmer1959 I doubt he commits the same ones, but at least he's hermeneutically self-aware.
@C. M. Granger Carson is a continuationist for one thing and he is woke for another. He is not a conservative Evangelical or Reformed. If Carson followed correct biblical interpretation he could not be either woke or charismatic.
@@c.m.granger6870 Carson is part of The Gospel Coalition.
@@ThomasCranmer1959 Yes, I know, as I point that out in my initial comments.
Where could I find a video of you talking with Keller about these series of engagements?
Jon Harris I am making a suggestion that you view Rick Caldwell content " What is the answer to Lawlessness. " Perhaps you may get a hint of
why Tim Keller's Heurmetics is shoddy,he falls
into eisegesis,lean on intellectual dishonesty,
epistemological hubris.Tim Keller Heuristics is
laughable.P . S . Tim Keller is not The PARA-
CLETE.He is most definitely not PARACLETE 2 . 0,
he not even The PARACLETE 0 . 2 ♨️ 🕊 🔥
Keller is a self aggrandizing and self appointed pope.
Where can I get a copy of that book? Seems it's no longer available.
Hahah! Oh my stars and gardens. Tim kellers "spiraling hermeneutics" is literally the definition of eisegesis...
As long as you sound/look like Yoda, what difference does bad hermeneutics make?
🤣
Lots of people are known for their gifts to the poor who didn't/don't have Jesus, weren't/aren't Christians.
And that will earn them nothing the day they stand before Christ. Salvation is by faith in Christ alone.
The Christian position isn’t that unbelievers can’t do good things, it’s that goodness has no epistemological foundation or meaning outside the Biblical worldview. In an atheist universe “might makes right.” There no criterion as to why it’s better to behave like Mother Teresa or Joseph Stalin. We are all just animals and it’s different strokes for different folks. Pol Pots brain happened to evolve in a certain way and Martin Luther Kings in another.
In any non Christian worldview there actually can’t even be free choice at all, as any knowledgeable atheist will tell you. Free will is an illusion because our decisions are just controlled by prior causal factors. You aren’t even thinking when you do or don’t do a “good deed.” You are simply the subject of biological responses.
Which is why good works are not good if done by wicked unbelievers.
The way liberation theologians errantly attempt to apply the hermeneutical spiral does not make that hermeneutic in and of itself an error. To equate it with postmodernism is to demonstrate unfamiliarity with the hermeneutic. Richard L Pratt displays the hermeneutic well in his work He Gave Us Stories by calling it the authority-dialogue method. Really all this comes from the fact that the Bible’s primary author is a divine one.
Are there liberal theologians who think they’re using this hermeneutic and yet approaching the Bible in a postmodern way? Yes. Does that mean that the hermeneutic rightly applied is errant? No.
Pratt is another fake Evangelical who pushes bad hermeutics. He also pushes single predestination in direct contradiction to the WCF.
@@ThomasCranmer1959 I don’t know anything about his predestination views but his hermeneutical views are wholly in line with the Westminster Standards.
The Apostle Paul seems to be describing what’s occurring with Keller, and his ilk, in ll Thessalonians 2:1-12. They are corrupting the Word of God with the “wisdom” of man without fear of God’s warning not to add to or take from His Word.
“Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that
when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that
they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
ll Thessalonians 2:1-2 (NKJV)
I didn’t watch this entire video but I’ve known Tim and his family casually for 20 years and was even on staff at Redeemer, and I can assure you he is a conservative fundamentalist Christian. He emphasizes certain possibly “left leaning” colors of Scripture because he is preaching to the most liberal, skeptical audience of any church in the United States, and there is such constant turn over because of the transience of NYC, that his congregation is almost completely different every few years. Whether he liked it or not he was constantly speaking to extremely liberal skeptics with almost no church experience, who hate conservatives and any organized religion, especially Christianity. It was his job to explode clichés that pagans believe about Christianity. The great overarching distortion which he is constantly combatting is the reduction of the Gospel to a system of morality where God accepts you if your good enough to merit it. His analysis of the older brother is spot on, and all you have to do is enter any Baptist church in America and you’ll see that person, or at least the tendency, everywhere you look.
I haven’t seen any example of doctrinal errors yet in this video that couldn’t be explained upon cross examination to the satisfaction of the most rigid Puritan.
Some of these examples are also not reading Tim charitably and are putting words in his mouth, or absolutizing concepts out of the context Tim presents them.
@@emigs8712 Everyone in the New Testament contextualized their preaching.
- Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
The New York City definition of "conservative fundamentalist Christian" apparently includes promotion of theistic evolution (Biologos), inclusion of homosexuals in the churches (Revoice), and globalism, all of which Tim Keller is heavily involved in. Tom Littleton provides much evidence for this at his blog "Thirty Pieces of Silver."
Which statement of Jon's did you disagree with? Give the time stamp.
Stop making excuses for this man. The moment he spewed his racist filth about white people, he should have been removed from leadership.
Look up the YT video, Grace, Justice, & Mercy: An Evening with Bryan Stevenson & Rev. Tim Keller Q &A
About 7:25 minutes in: "Studies have shown, have pretty much proven that if you have white skin it's worth a million dollars over a lifetime over somebody who doesn't have white skin "
Vile, disgusting, ACTUAL racist filth and lies being spewed in that video - stuff that has no business coming from the mouth of any professing follower of Christ, much less a pastor / Christian leader. Since you've known him for 20 years, ask him about that.
I don't like to use the word but Tim Keller is hated on by the site constantly. I don't know how else to out it. And I certainly agree he is a biblical Christian and great author.
@@orbyfan Nonsense, conspiracy theory. Out of all the international ministries that came from Redeemer there will be some incidental overlap with pagan institutions. Especially when as a missionary you are willingly going into enemy territory to share the Gospel and to live out Jeremiah 29. - Tim spoke at the Houses of Parliament , does that make him a globalist, or part of the UK Green Party by association? - Because that’s what guys blog amounts to. - He was also on Morning Joe a few weeks ago with Al Sharpton, does that make him a racist bigot? No, the same, he’s doing what Christ did and seeking the lost in hopeless places.
Protestants: Sola Scriptura, baby! Every man for himself when it comes to biblical interpretation.
Also protestants: We don't like the way other protestants are interpreting scripture! We will split and form yet another denominimation to fit our novel interpretation.
Catholics: Facepalm, facepalm, and more facepalm.
That's not what sola scriptura means. Not even close.
The Bible: salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.
Catholicism: if anyone believes in salvation by faith alone let him be an anathema.
Bible: there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ.
Catholicism: mary is co-mediator with Jesus
@@TheJpep2424 Oh my Jesus, help this man.
You said: "The Bible: salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone.
Catholicism: if anyone believes in salvation by faith alone let him be an anathema."
THERE IS NO BIBLE VERSE. ANYWHERE. THAT STATES THAT SALVATION IS BY FAITH *ALONE*.
THE BIBLE STATES THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
Protestants do not know their Bible. They have not actually read it like they claim to have. Please actually read the Bible -- for the sake of your own salvation.
@@cjgodley1776 I’m into getting into this debate but the obvious response is that, as Luther said, faith is like the heat of the sun and works is like the light. Works will always accompany true faith, but we aren’t saved by the works, we are save by grace through faith in Christ. Works is evidence of this transformation, not the vehicle by which we are are saved. - Protestants all agree on this. Regardless of denominations which are mostly just cultural differences. The disagreements on this page are minutia.
@@cjgodley1776 Life is to short to worship the pedophiles in robes and praying to Mary or her children
@@a5dr3 You said, "we aren’t saved by the works, we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. Works is evidence of this transformation".
Yes. This is what the Catholic Church has taught for 2000 years. Pelagianism was condemned in like 431 or something (at the Council of Ephesus).
It is an OLD, OLD, OLD trope at this point that the Church somehow "teaches" pelaganism. She doesn't! And never has. Luther was wrong. He didn't know his own Church's teaching and led multiple others to embrace his own stupidity into error.
"“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
― Achbsp. Fulton J. Sheen