@@dennisquaidsleg3820 It’s called crucifying demons because these demons are beliefs that we thought were true but aren’t. Crucify them before you die or you will face them while you are dying.
Human beings are a microcosm of the environment they live in, like all plants and animals are. Dissect an animal and you know more or less precisely the environment they evolved in and came from. The same is true of human social interactions and human beliefs and thoughts, they reflect the environment they evolved in. It's possible, if not certain, that how humans think about God (or gods) is reflective of the cosmos we evolved in, IE our concepts about God probably reveal an abstract truth about the cosmos, just at a lower resolution than a tool like science might prefer.
@benjamintrevino325 scholarship and studies are important for deconstruction, philosophy and spirituality are important for reconstruction. I feel this channel is leans excessively to the deconstructionist side.
@@paulgerhard236 Yes, someone who doesn't just assume the Trinity is true will let the text speak for itself on that matter....or, in this case, not speak.
there are multiple gods mentioned in the bible, but there is the One True God described as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of salvation, also what does Stephen seeing Christ at the right hand of the Father before dying have to do with anything?
@@Dloin it's recorded in the bible, there are quite a few different false gods like baal, asherah, dagon, etc, who are worshipped in the old testament, who people sacrificed to and had prophets for. There's also a mentioning of diana in the new testament (acts 19) who was a goddess in ephesus and worshipped in a lot of Asia minor at the time. Also, forgive me for the generalization i'm about to make, but why is any time a Christian mentions something in the bible people always say, "that's the doctrine 'they' taught you" or "you've been brainwashed" etc. Yes i grew up in a family that went to church, but a lot of my beliefs and doctrine didn't come from them (my family that is). If you read the bible false gods are mentioned throughout as i stated before, Moses also quotes God saying "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob". It's also in Isaiah where God says "I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me" long story short, the bible is how i know.
@@kyleepratt except that's exactly what trinitarians believe. God is one God, in 3 persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They have the same essence and share the same divinity, which Jesus mentions multiple times in the gospels and in the revelation. A couple examples would be that no one can snatch the 'sheep' (His people) from His hand, while saying immediately after that the Father gave them to Him and no one will snatch them out of the Father's hand. Another example would be in revelation when God says "I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End" and Jesus says later "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End", or earlier in revelation where Jesus puts His hand on John, and says "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades" Or in Luke's gospel where Jesus forgives a paralytic of His sins saying "your sins are forgiven you" and the religious leaders (scribes, pharisees, etc) say "Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Jesus perceived their thoughts and said "'But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins' He said to the paralytic man, 'I say to you, rise, pick up your bed and go home'", and the man got up and walked home glorifying God, there's a whole bunch of other examples but i hoped this cleared things up, and id be happy to answer any other questions you have
I have always been fascinated by this snippet in Genesis. I noticed the plural immediately and was mystified. Thanks, Dan, for addressing this bit of mystery.
Tho I’m not a Jew, Muslim, Christian, or so forth, however I would say that the case of Genesis 1:26-31 is a small matter that can easily be shoved aside. One easy explanation could be that it’s just a Jewish way of talking, I mean, we’ve seen this multiple times in the bible, even in The book of Daniel (2:36), The author wrote that the fictional character Daniel said “𝐖𝐞 will tell the king the interpretation”…and we all know that it was only this character whom went in to talk to the king💁
@@KWade-bt4dc Good try, but nope...why? #1. Remember the character, King Nebuchadnezzar, said that he would reward the one/ones who could tell him the dream and its meaning...so if this “we“ included Arioch, then he would've also been rewarded. #2. They didn’t actually went in together together🤞like you're thinking...again, remember, they ain't friends or anything like that...this character Arioch was sent to 𝐤𝐢𝐥𝐥 these so called ’wise men✌️’ ; so he brought this daniel in as an Officer, not because of his (Daniel's) request, but because this was of much importance to this Nebuchadnezzar.
Thank you. Finally someone says the obvious. The council of the Gods always made so much more sense. Tearing down the line of crap that is the trinity is next.
@@be-dog-freethere is no trinity, just because the father, son and Holy Spirit are mentioned in the same passage or verse, doesn’t mean it’s the trinity
Always rememeber that the bible/torah is more a colletion of books than a cohesive singular thesis...that is for the theology to make it, letting some vestiges of these old concepts of Abrahamic religion slip
It's funny that God said anything at all. It's even funnier that he made sure a guy wrote his words, because, for some reason, it's very important that we have the record of what God was saying to himself while he was doing stuff.
Love these videos, and a gr8 channel. Making a point to hit on how this was projecting the social/political institutions the HUMANS writing the stories were used to ONTO the cosmos, in particular, is really appreciated.
BTW, God making man "in his image" refers to physical appearance, i.e., a humanoid shape. Modern apologetics like to claim this refers to humanity's mental/spiritual qualities, such as the ability to create, but the story itself shows that that *could not* be the case, as the entire point of the fruit and it's effects was to MAKE humans like the gods in that manner...so obviously, they were NOT like God in that way before, and in fact, nor did God *want* them to be like him. The only thing left, therefore, is physical appearance.
Hmmmm ... So somewhere out in the heavenly realm, God has blood vessels, vertebrae, reproductive plumbing, etc? How big is He? How big is His ... [ahem]?
@@roytee3127 Feels to me that more often than not, God is presented as a voice instead of having a physical form. By the way, I thought "heavenly realm" is a later innovation? Genesis clearly described the original dwelling of Adam and Eve as a geographic area.
Because the Jews used to be one of the polytheistic canaanite religions and Jehovah was just one god among many they worshipped, e.g. Asherah. Later, during the Babylonian Exile, the jewish religion was put into writing for the very first time, and that coincided with a retcon, a religious reformation-movement, triggered by the trauma of almost being wiped out: The jewish religion became monotheistic, focusing on just one of their gods.
So it’s polytheistic, not monotheistic. There area multiple gods who know each other and have interactions with each other and with humans. Hmm. Kind of like the Greek gods or Polynesian gods. I like it.
The Bible has never been monotheistic. In Exodus, the Egyptian gods turn the priests' sticks into snakes, and Moses's god performs the same miracle. The Book of Job describes an entire Divine Council. Yes, other gods exist throughout the Bible.
The Hebrew Bible is probably better described as henotheistic. The Judahites acknowledged that other gods existed for other people, but Adonai was specifically their god. Hence the references to other gods fighting with Adonai, and other gods being able to perform miracles on occasions.
@@christasimon9716 Yeah, the gods of cultures/peoples outside of the Israelites have always been known, but in Sunday school the teaching was that they were false gods that weren’t anything more than figments of the imagination of ignorant gentiles. This seems to highlight that even within Israelite culture there are multiple ‘actual’ gods. I wish we knew more about those others. That would be the ‘council’ that you mentioned. But the concept of ‘god’ within Israelite culture is fickle.
This is a bit of woo. If you take the "seven days of creation" to which to this day are the days of the week and the Gods that we ascribe to them (Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn) we quite quickly reconcile other ancient religions to this one. All rooted in Astrology. The 12 tribes, brothers, disciples, gates etc are the zodiac. Abraham literally means "Father Ram" which is the first zodiac sign. Christ symbol is the fish (Pisces). John the bapitist (Aquarius - the water bearer) "the one that prepares the way". Look at parts of revelation and compare to an astrological map. They suddenly look much more like campfire stories of star gazers.
God has always been a trinitarian God, it is mentioned throughout the old testament talking about the Son, and the Spirt, when Jesus came down, the Son of God came in the flesh, and He sent His Holy Spirit to then luve within us, meaning now after the crucifixion we are able to have the presence of God live within us
I remember asking that very question when I was ... four? Five? Very young, anyways - that and many other questions is why I found myself being bored in the sermon instead of being with the other kids in Sunday School, and - looking back on it - quite probably why I was 'allowed' to skip church if I wanted when I turned 8 or so.
Hi, I think it’s important to look into the topic a bit more in depth, Dan here only represents one of many plausible interpretive options for why there is a plural here. He also completely misrepresents the use of the word ‘scholars’ as if everyone who doesn’t have a formal qualification in these matters is incapable of interpreting. Who gets to decide which interpretation is correct? Surely the author?
@henryizzard4581but with Genesis we don't know the author so the best you can do is interpret it. As to your other point, is academia the only place where you think people who have formally studied should be just as listened to as any other person?
You should mention Francesca Stavrakopoulou's wonderful book, God: An Anatomy, which lays out the history of God in terms of his body, and his wife, Asherah. It's incredibly telling.
So later biblical authors and theologians downgraded the other gods to angels. That's just rude. 🤣 Btw Dan, iirc, you said in a previous video that you were planning on writing a book surveying the evolution of God, their prominence and powers, over the course of the Bible's writing. I hope I'm correct in that recollection, and that you're still on track with writing it. 🍻
Folks at my grandma's church invited me to stop coming when I suggested God had evolved over the course of the Bible and wanted to reconcile this "forever and ever, amen" stuff.
@@NWPaul72I guess that's the 21st-century equivalent of being stoned to death, or bring burned at the stake. Being uninvited to attend church? Now that's what I call a blessing in disguise. 😊
Very good Dan. Love your work. imo Perennial Christianity, a word I made up lol, is the answer to all the academic trouble with theology. If the first cause that we can even consider , is the being that became or was one with Yeshua, an infinite within and authorizing another infinite ie becoming one outside the bounds of time and space ie ...always have been one. And then that divinity, expresses itself within the knowledge and growth level of each culture in various ways.....we have Yeshua, holding the heart above all knowledge and after all...isn't it the heart that matters? Great Video Dan. Keep it up.
I wrote a fiction novel [not in any store since my name isn't known and having a book published is quite arduous] that has to do with the concepts of the ancient "gods" and how people saw them. In the novel, they were entities of another dimension who wanted to see if they could create, within on species of primate, a "connection" that would eventually see them reaching a level of awareness, for the purpose of eventually interacting with them. Some of the "deities" humans associated with these entities were the likes of deities of Mesopotamia, but also Yahweh and even Jesus, to an extent. But I really should work in the notion of the "Elohim" character as one of the architects of this "experiment". It's been enjoyable creating a story around these ancient systems.
Amazon used to have a self publishing option, accessible to anyone afaik. You can look into it if you are ok with publishing as e-book. However my advice is to make sure you have a well written book first. Good luck.
@@pansepot1490 I appreciate your advice. An e-book would be acceptable, especially since as it is now, it has only been a work of interest, and enjoyment, for myself. If a few gain some level of enjoyment as a result, that will be an extra benefit. Thanks!
Sounds like something went wrong on The British Bake Off. "Oh, deary, you overworked your abstract plural, and it concretized. That's rubbish now, innit?"
I’m still amazed that Protestant churches can high jacked Jewish text to mean something it doesn’t from this verse like a Trinity doctrine. Then herald it around like they have the only truth. Not knowing the trinity doctrine was a later innovation. This is a video all Christians should watch that scribe to trinitarianism.
to reply to the title of the video: God asked the other gods for help because he couldn't do it alone. And that's why he says "us" and "our" THIS is the true explanation, ODIN told me so.
Dan McClellan is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), commonly known as the Mormon Church. He has been actively involved in the church, even working as a scripture translation supervisor for the church for many years. Although he engages in complex and critical discussions about religious texts, he remains an active member of the LDS Church, contributing to both scholarly and faith-based conversations about religion and the Bible.
I'm normally not a fan of Dan and think his takes are misleading, but this was a really well done video with examples throughout. Great work! I obviously disagree with Dan on the Trinity just because his interpretive grid and mine will always take us to separate conclusions. But he brings up good Divine Council points to a debate that I'm currently 50/50 on (whether the Divine Council is satirical and rhetorical or literal. I think both have solid arguments).
I would say that whether or not the Divine council is "real", the ancient Israelites and their neighbors certainly believed it was. He has a really fascinating lecture available on his website on the divine council where he digs into all the sources.
@KWade-bt4dc That's what I meant by "real" is whether they took it "literally" or not. I'm always interested to read divine council content. I'm not sure if I'll learn anything new, but if there's a chance of learning I'm all in. 🙂 You said website specifically. I can't find the lesson you're talking about on RUclips? I have to access it through his website?
It's odd that a book inspired by an all-powerful and all-knowing deity even needs to be interpreted by human beings, because its meaning is not obvious, in the first place. I'm glad you pointed out that what the serpent said to Adam and Eve was true and what God told them was false (which God admits to later in the text). Most people miss that or bend themselves into pretzels to explain it, even though the text is pretty darn clear. My favorite part of Genesis is noticing that the sun is not created until the fourth "day". How did those first three days happen without a sun? Simple: The people who wrote that knew that the sun CAME OUT during the day, but they didn't know that it actually CAUSES the day. It looks small and close so it makes sense for them to think it was just a chariot that crossed the sky each day. This is why it was mentioned almost as an afterthought and why Joshua could stop it from moving across the sky (instead of saying that the Earth would stop spinning).
If the bible were inspired, which I don't believe, the concept of trinity wouldn't have needed to exist with men for God to inspire the wording in Genesis as such. And yes, there was the El pantheon. But fundamentalism doesn't have a crisis over findings of scholarship.
Jupiter aka IU Pittar is both male (I) and female (U). We are all made in the image of Jupiter, neither male nor female, but male and female. The male part is found in Rev. 9.5. as the five signs/months of Scorpion thru Pisces. The female part follows as the sacred seven signs/months.
The image is our image, WHAT WE EACH SEE IN OUR MIND is the image(imagine), now the first sin is Christ’s alone, He asked why we chose other Gods than Himself(insecurity) because in the beginning was many Gods after the original Word(some think Cain and Able are the other colours) today science has found that four Mushrooms have lost the ability to to digest decay so now they eat with the trees(first temple)where water brought back the tender plants.
According to the creation account in Proverbs, God must be talking to Lady Wisdom. According to the creation account in Job, God might be talking to Leviathan daring her to stop him. According to the creation account in John, probably God is talking to the Word instructing the latter what to do.
That assumes the writers of all those books were working from the same view of cosmology and god. Those examples were written at different times and by different authors, and it isn’t accurate to assume they were in perfect harmony on those points.
I'll give a pass to the consort, but one of the second tier deities should be able to pop down to earth and straighten us out on what the main deity wants us to do.
Hey Dan, I have a question. In other cultures around Israel, the image of a god usually was a statue in which the spirit of the god lived after the inauguration ceremony and then the god was worshiped through the image. If human beings are the image of god, why do we have them being created "in" and not "as" the image of god? Is there a special meaning behind the "in"? Thanks, Thomas
For the same reason he says, “I am the Lord, YOUR god. You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME.” The authors were polytheists. You speak pretty good Hebrew for a Mc. 😉
Isaiah 43:10, but okay "scholar." How's the counting going by the way? I would assume you have no idea the number or how great. The comments who are agreeing with you are perhaps a hint, but even I draw towards curiosity the number of souls you're doing your absolute best to keep on the broad road. You probably don't even notice. Not many do.
The first mistake is thinking God said it! That book has served to divide, confuse and conquer. It requires an open mind, much knowledge, and wisdom to realize how people have been deceived into believing a lie. The strong delusion is no joke! Once you discover the truth behind the book then you’ll wonder why you did not discover it sooner. But if your eyes are to shut you’ll never see it! The truth is not easy for the ears and most people prefer to ignore it and remain in the box.
@@bukowski20 How so? This lines up exactly with our doctrine. We are out of our minds because we believe in the fullness of the Gospel? Explain that one.
Trinity was operative. It took time to develop the language like Trinity etc. Ancient church traditions believed in a truine God long before the language for it wss crafted.
I’ve heard it said that “knowledge of good and evil” really means knowledge of everything. Like how we say someone knows “everything from A to Z”. Is this correct?
I remember seeing a video of this guy saying Jesus is not God because he said "there is none good but one, that is, God" without mentioning Jesus says "I am the Good Shepherd" in John 10.
@@tezzerii 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
The only issue I see with this line of reasoning is that calling himself "the Shepherd", doesn't automatically equate to "I am God." Also, it shows the that the writers of the Gospels apparently had very different concepts of who they thought Jesus was, so, if Jesus is God, it is very deceptive to say "only God is good." It seems like he's pretending to NOT be who he really is.
According to most religious types gender is set and determined by your genetics. Also according to most religious types God is NOT physical/mortal and thus has no genetics and thus no gender. Finally according to most religious types, referring to someone by their chosen gender is woke and something to be avoided. Thus the only way to be proper is to refer to God as It/They/Them. Referring to God as "He/Him" is woke.
So would you say this is simply a remnant of Pagan ideals that came before? Considering Christianity absorbed and took a lot of things from Paganism. Would it be early Christianity/Judaism and writers still trying to mesh it all together before Christianity was around enough to cement its own identity as a religion?
I'm more interested in the meaning of "likeness". What does that mean? That we look like God? That we think like God? Likeness is pretty vague. There have been a number of human species, with differences in their looks. As for the rest of it, well, there were angels, demons, archangels, cherubim, a host of supernatural beings. They were somewhat lower in seniority, but supernatural nevertheless.
Why would God, however, say let "us" ? I get that the other deities are there and sharing a lot of attributes with the highest God (e.g. knowledge, etc) but wouldn't there be only ONE creator God of human beings? Are the other gods also creating with him?
You are correct. There is no "Let US" or "Our" in 1:26. Those words were added. The verse starts the same as the other Creation verses, "Then God said." When it was translated 2,000 years ago, the words Let us, and Our was put in. 1:27 says it all, God created man in his image. However, the likeness part remains a mystery since no one is made in the likeness of God per Rev 4:3's description of God. Careful examination of the original shows we are made in the "likeness" of the animals he just created. Example: we have hearts, lungs, muscle, brains, ears, nose, hair, we walk, breathe air, eat the same foods and so on, just like the animals he just created. Therefore, we are made in the image of God, but in the likeness of the animals he created before Adam.
Is there any validity to the claim that the "Elohim" refers to the Annunaki, which is then grammatically reflected in the use of the plural of 'gods'? It's not mentioned in this video but curious if there's anything to it.
Is this part of Genesis a reflection on Enoch. I have heard that Enoch speaks of watchers and Demons who taught human beings how to make weapons and other technologies? 🤔.
But the difference between the nominative case plural Elohim, is the same difference as 'we' the gods as a plural. It’s a plurality consciousness. In other words, the concretized abstract is still referring to a collective.
So, God made man in his own image male AND female, and later divided man in a separate male and a separate female. Can we conclude from this that God is also male AND female, and that when God split man up into two halves, man was no longer in the image of God? Also, it says God put into [undivided] man his spirit. Was the spirit also undivided male AND female?
Is there anything, uh, concrete, that we have, in terms of what the 'Divine Council' would have been made up of, back when those parts were written? Like, surviving religious texts/references to other deities in the council, or how said council functions, etc.? it feels like a vestigial part of the Bible most Christians probably don't even realize is there, and other than mentioning the most high, I don't think I've heard you talk much about the divine council
The idea of a divine council is basically an assembly of divine beings in thier heavenly home. Olympus is a common example. There are numerous references in the bible of Yahweh holding council with other divine beings. Psalm 82 being the easiest to find. Job 1:6 alludes to the same idea.
@@MrDalisclock I'm familiar with the concept, but as it pertains specifically to ancient Judeo-Christian beliefs, there seems to be virtually nothing about who those other "divine beings" are. Since the Judeo-Christian god in modern times is largely considered the creator of everything, the idea that there are other gods, or a god higher than the Judeo-Christian god, seems very strange to me. If you look on wikipedia's divine council article, for instance, it has a quote "the identities of the members of the assembly are far more obscure than those found in other descriptions of these groups." But "far more obscure" doesn't necessarily mean unspecified or lost to history. If the Judeo-Christian god is the creator of the universe and 'the one true god' or something, then it feels like the presence of other deities that aren't pretenders / false gods is left unexplained, unless perhaps they were children of YHWH and Asherah or something. Or perhaps angels were originally conceived as lesser gods or something? I believe Dan at some point mentioned that YHWH wasn't originally conceived as creating the entire universe. He's certainly mentioned the "most High" a few times in passing, but as far as Judeo-Christianity having a *pantheon* of gods, it seems like other than a few allusions, there's no details about the other gods. I would imagine in antiquity, there were likely specific gods meant in those passages, that got suppressed the way Asherah did. I'm just fascinated by the idea of there being other gods in Judaism/Christianity. Perhaps those were just the gods of various other cults that got stomped out when the temple of Jerusalem became the obligatory worship point, and those passages were an attempt to co-exist with other religious beliefs? That'd be neat, if so.
@@Quirken there's some interesting overlap with the Bible and Urgaritc mythology. Not a ton but evidence of a pantheon under El who is married to Asherah and father of the gods, including Ba'al, Anat and Mot. Some versions of Deuteronomy 32: 8-9 also reference the division of the world amongst the gods, of which Yahweh gets Isreal. It's tucked in there and that particular wording is from the Dead Sea Scrolls so a lot of people handwave it. The angel thing is fascinating and a lot of ink has been spilled over it. It's possible as isrealite religion become more Yahweh centered the other higher tier gods got slowly pushed out of the pantheon with only minor servant gods being recast as angels, since angel is job description and not a name. Only later do the angels get names and apparently specific responsibilities, like in Daniel. It's weird and hard to trace honestly. And then there's the cherubim which are a whole thing to themselves, but never called Angels.
YAHWEH GOD WAS TALKING TO TH EIN SOF HE WAS SIMPLY REFRENCING HIS INFINTE ABILITIES TO CREATE NEW BEINFGS JUST LIKE OTHER CREATED BEINGS GOD WAS BOTH TALKING TO HIMSELF , HIS PRESENT CREATIONS , AND HIS FUTURE CREATIONS AS EIN SOL OR EIN IN SELF AS A DUALITY TRI-UNITY AND AS A UNITY AS A INFINITE BEING
If there is a Polytheistic Pagan creed in the Bible, would you take it or reject it? Believing that there are Gods that look like humans is a Polytheistic Pagan creed.
I like Dan. He's usually thorough about the Christian doctrine, but he's wrong about this one. Based on his argument, God and his Devine council created everything together.
YHWH judged the gods and became the snake Adam, the Christ, judges the earth and becomes a worm Lilith settled them east of Eden. Until the day Adam wields the fiery sword in vengeance and judgment; setting up the abomination of desolation in himself; as the temple without one stone left standing upon another
@maklelan Is the concretized abstract plural ever used for any noun other than deity? I ask because my own (crackpot) theory is that Elohim as a singular is due to revisionism on the part of monotheistic editors re-writing an existing polytheistic creation myth to harmonize it with an aggressive monotheism, probably during the Exile when you were more likely to get students for whom Hebrew was not their language of day-to-day usage. If concretized abstract plurals are only ever used to refer to deity, I'd see that as consistent with my own (crackpot) theory, but if it's also used of, say, chariots or cooking utensils or whatever, then that would be a strike against it. I saw a summary of Joel Burnett's dissertation, but it doesn't seem to directly address my question, so I thought I'd ask you. Thanks.
OMG. If this is true, why would God make it so difficult to read and understand?? Doesn't make sense to me. There are so many interpretations that it ends up contradicting each other.
Is that what Jewish scholars would say about plural deities? Many references to the worship of the Baals and others in the OT but that is characterised as apostasy for betraying the one true God of Israel. Plural deities make a nonsense of the reality of God but fit in with human ideas of many deities..
In comparison to the absence of trinity scriptures in the Bible, what do you make of claims that the Book of Mormon is heavily saturated with Trinitarian doctrine even though the CJCLDS is famously, or infamously depending who you ask, non-Trinitarian?
Hey Dan, I think that's the sumerian god Enki speaking in the divine council to try and convince the other gods (Espicially Enlil) to create man in order to relief the Igigi gods. What are your thoughts?
It depends on when it was written I guess. According to the bible Abraham was born in Ur, Sumer so it is likely he worshipped Enki and Enlil etc. But the Hebrews were more focused on the Canaanite pantheon, so El, Baal and Asherah. 40 was Enki's sacred number but 70 comes from the 70 sons of El and Asherah.
@@KasperKatje Oh yeah, there is the canaaanite pantheon. The 70 sons of El and the 70 nations from the Old Testament Bible heavily mirror the Canaanite pantheon over the sumerian.
@@rimmersbryggeri well, there are a lot of archaeological finds of the worship of Asherah but in the end they are all fictional indeed and didn't stop the switch to sole worship of fictional tribal god Yahweh.
@@KasperKatje I meant that abraham and genesis 1 don't belong to to same narrative or even the mythology of the same tribe so there is little reason to try to shoehorn abraham into it. Abraham lived both in UR and in a place from whre you acould walk to talk to the pharaoh as a man that had allready lived to 200% of the life expectency so I wouldnt take anything said about abraham very sereiosly. Especially assuming that the pharaoh lived in central egypt at the time.
It's all fun and games until somebody's pet T-Rex ends up with a third of the Lord hanging out of its maw, and a third in its clutch. Just mindlessly noshing away on God.....
Easy, God issued a 'bill of divorce' because of her complaining about having equal time and sends her back to her parents. An easy explanation, nothing mysterious here.
I'm no scholar, but I have studied this very subject in the bible. There's no mention of the holy spirit in the old testament. The spirit of God, however, is mentioned multiple times. Although, if you replace the word "spirit" (which is Latin for "breathe") by "breathe" or "wind", it works (almost) all the time - the new testament included.
The world mission society church of god believes the “us” refers to female deity called god the mother along with god the father created mankind in gods images male and female.
Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels). They made this realm. They made man in their image. (tares) Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels. Genesis 2:7 the Lord God forms His representative in their system. (wheat) One Gospel: Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
That feel when you're a concretized abstract plural.
Bro I know the feeling, and lemme tell ya it ain’t a good one
No. That feel when we’re a concretized plural. We watch the video again until we get it right.
@@dennisquaidsleg3820
It’s called crucifying demons because these demons are beliefs that we thought were true but aren’t. Crucify them before you die or you will face them while you are dying.
I need some college level English courses.
Check Mauro Biglino for experienced non American mind control translations
The trail of clues pointing to humans shaping the Divine rather than the other way around is more like a four lane highway.😊
Human beings are a microcosm of the environment they live in, like all plants and animals are. Dissect an animal and you know more or less precisely the environment they evolved in and came from. The same is true of human social interactions and human beliefs and thoughts, they reflect the environment they evolved in. It's possible, if not certain, that how humans think about God (or gods) is reflective of the cosmos we evolved in, IE our concepts about God probably reveal an abstract truth about the cosmos, just at a lower resolution than a tool like science might prefer.
@@micah3209 I look forward to your presentation on your research.
@@micah3209 sir and/or ma'am this is RUclips not Facebook.
@benjamintrevino325 scholarship and studies are important for deconstruction, philosophy and spirituality are important for reconstruction. I feel this channel is leans excessively to the deconstructionist side.
@@halvarmc671 are there certain discussions you feel aren't appropriate for RUclips?
FINALLLY!!!!! Someone that gives information on their T-shirts.
It's really interesting finding out what the Bible says when you're not trying to make it agree with what you already believe.
True! For example: If somebody doesnt believe in the Trinity, He wont accept this passage as hint to the Trinity!
@@paulgerhard236 Yes, someone who doesn't just assume the Trinity is true will let the text speak for itself on that matter....or, in this case, not speak.
Pure truth is so refreshing! The New Testament has repeated references to multiple Gods as well, with Stephen seeing Christ on the right hand of God.
there are multiple gods mentioned in the bible, but there is the One True God described as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of salvation, also what does Stephen seeing Christ at the right hand of the Father before dying have to do with anything?
@@heyytrizzhow do you know? Because you grew up with that doctrine?
the idea with Jesus on God's right side is that describes 2 individuals. Which would not fit well with the Trinity.
@@Dloin it's recorded in the bible, there are quite a few different false gods like baal, asherah, dagon, etc, who are worshipped in the old testament, who people sacrificed to and had prophets for. There's also a mentioning of diana in the new testament (acts 19) who was a goddess in ephesus and worshipped in a lot of Asia minor at the time.
Also, forgive me for the generalization i'm about to make, but why is any time a Christian mentions something in the bible people always say, "that's the doctrine 'they' taught you" or "you've been brainwashed" etc. Yes i grew up in a family that went to church, but a lot of my beliefs and doctrine didn't come from them (my family that is). If you read the bible false gods are mentioned throughout as i stated before, Moses also quotes God saying "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob". It's also in Isaiah where God says "I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me"
long story short, the bible is how i know.
@@kyleepratt except that's exactly what trinitarians believe. God is one God, in 3 persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They have the same essence and share the same divinity, which Jesus mentions multiple times in the gospels and in the revelation. A couple examples would be that no one can snatch the 'sheep' (His people) from His hand, while saying immediately after that the Father gave them to Him and no one will snatch them out of the Father's hand. Another example would be in revelation when God says "I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End" and Jesus says later "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End", or earlier in revelation where Jesus puts His hand on John, and says "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades" Or in Luke's gospel where Jesus forgives a paralytic of His sins saying "your sins are forgiven you" and the religious leaders (scribes, pharisees, etc) say "Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Jesus perceived their thoughts and said "'But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins' He said to the paralytic man, 'I say to you, rise, pick up your bed and go home'", and the man got up and walked home glorifying God, there's a whole bunch of other examples but i hoped this cleared things up, and id be happy to answer any other questions you have
I have always been fascinated by this snippet in Genesis. I noticed the plural immediately and was mystified.
Thanks, Dan, for addressing this bit of mystery.
Tho I’m not a Jew, Muslim, Christian, or so forth, however I would say that the case of Genesis 1:26-31 is a small matter that can easily be shoved aside.
One easy explanation could be that it’s just a Jewish way of talking, I mean, we’ve seen this multiple times in the bible, even in The book of Daniel (2:36),
The author wrote that the fictional character Daniel said “𝐖𝐞 will tell the king the interpretation”…and we all know that it was only this character whom went in to talk to the king💁
@@FaithTesters_636 That very well could be the case. I'd have to review Dan's comments.
@@FaithTesters_636 It seems to me that the "we" in verse 36 is referring to Arioch (Verse 25) since they went together to speak to the king.
@@KWade-bt4dc
Good try, but nope...why?
#1. Remember the character, King Nebuchadnezzar, said that he would reward the one/ones who could tell him the dream and its meaning...so if this “we“ included Arioch, then he would've also been rewarded.
#2. They didn’t actually went in together together🤞like you're thinking...again, remember, they ain't friends or anything like that...this character Arioch was sent to 𝐤𝐢𝐥𝐥 these so called ’wise men✌️’ ; so he brought this daniel in as an Officer, not because of his (Daniel's) request, but because this was of much importance to this Nebuchadnezzar.
@@FaithTesters_636Nope. You're just trying to make it fit your beliefs. The language is clear.
Thank you. Finally someone says the obvious. The council of the Gods always made so much more sense. Tearing down the line of crap that is the trinity is next.
Why wouldn’t it be the trinity? Jesus is God so is the Holy Spirit so is God the Father, that’s the Godhead.
@@be-dog-freethere is no trinity, just because the father, son and Holy Spirit are mentioned in the same passage or verse, doesn’t mean it’s the trinity
It's a real funny thing for a monotheistic religion to say.
You'd think Judaism developed from a polytheistic tradition it couldn't completely eradicate from the text.
Always rememeber that the bible/torah is more a colletion of books than a cohesive singular thesis...that is for the theology to make it, letting some vestiges of these old concepts of Abrahamic religion slip
It's funny that God said anything at all. It's even funnier that he made sure a guy wrote his words, because, for some reason, it's very important that we have the record of what God was saying to himself while he was doing stuff.
@@baker8674 Theology is just fanfic trying to fix a garbage IP.
And they say Religion has no sense of humour...
Finally! I've been wondering about this recently!
Love these videos, and a gr8 channel. Making a point to hit on how this was projecting the social/political institutions the HUMANS writing the stories were used to ONTO the cosmos, in particular, is really appreciated.
BTW, God making man "in his image" refers to physical appearance, i.e., a humanoid shape. Modern apologetics like to claim this refers to humanity's mental/spiritual qualities, such as the ability to create, but the story itself shows that that *could not* be the case, as the entire point of the fruit and it's effects was to MAKE humans like the gods in that manner...so obviously, they were NOT like God in that way before, and in fact, nor did God *want* them to be like him. The only thing left, therefore, is physical appearance.
Interesting. Did the author(s) of Genesis meant that God made Adam in His (physical) image, or that He made HUMANS in His (physical) image?
Nice Mormon renegotiating the text.
Hmmmm ...
So somewhere out in the heavenly realm, God has blood vessels, vertebrae, reproductive plumbing, etc? How big is He? How big is His
... [ahem]?
@@roytee3127 Feels to me that more often than not, God is presented as a voice instead of having a physical form.
By the way, I thought "heavenly realm" is a later innovation? Genesis clearly described the original dwelling of Adam and Eve as a geographic area.
If you listen to more of these videos he does talk about how the OT god is not invisible and has a form.
Because the Jews used to be one of the polytheistic canaanite religions and Jehovah was just one god among many they worshipped, e.g. Asherah. Later, during the Babylonian Exile, the jewish religion was put into writing for the very first time, and that coincided with a retcon, a religious reformation-movement, triggered by the trauma of almost being wiped out: The jewish religion became monotheistic, focusing on just one of their gods.
So it’s polytheistic, not monotheistic. There area multiple gods who know each other and have interactions with each other and with humans. Hmm. Kind of like the Greek gods or Polynesian gods. I like it.
The Bible has never been monotheistic. In Exodus, the Egyptian gods turn the priests' sticks into snakes, and Moses's god performs the same miracle. The Book of Job describes an entire Divine Council. Yes, other gods exist throughout the Bible.
The Hebrew Bible is probably better described as henotheistic. The Judahites acknowledged that other gods existed for other people, but Adonai was specifically their god. Hence the references to other gods fighting with Adonai, and other gods being able to perform miracles on occasions.
@@christasimon9716 Yeah, the gods of cultures/peoples outside of the Israelites have always been known, but in Sunday school the teaching was that they were false gods that weren’t anything more than figments of the imagination of ignorant gentiles. This seems to highlight that even within Israelite culture there are multiple ‘actual’ gods. I wish we knew more about those others. That would be the ‘council’ that you mentioned. But the concept of ‘god’ within Israelite culture is fickle.
@@christasimon9716psalm 82 has Yahweh condemning the rest of the council.
It makes no sense if he's speaking to an empty room.
This is a bit of woo. If you take the "seven days of creation" to which to this day are the days of the week and the Gods that we ascribe to them (Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn) we quite quickly reconcile other ancient religions to this one. All rooted in Astrology. The 12 tribes, brothers, disciples, gates etc are the zodiac. Abraham literally means "Father Ram" which is the first zodiac sign. Christ symbol is the fish (Pisces). John the bapitist (Aquarius - the water bearer) "the one that prepares the way". Look at parts of revelation and compare to an astrological map. They suddenly look much more like campfire stories of star gazers.
God has always been a trinitarian God, it is mentioned throughout the old testament talking about the Son, and the Spirt, when Jesus came down, the Son of God came in the flesh, and He sent His Holy Spirit to then luve within us, meaning now after the crucifixion we are able to have the presence of God live within us
❤❤❤❤❤ thanks Dan!!!
I remember asking that very question when I was ... four? Five? Very young, anyways - that and many other questions is why I found myself being bored in the sermon instead of being with the other kids in Sunday School, and - looking back on it - quite probably why I was 'allowed' to skip church if I wanted when I turned 8 or so.
I'm pretty sure I'd be banned from Sunday school if I ever went back for those very reasons.
Thanks Dan.❤
Thank you, Dan. I was seriously wondering about the 'Us' in Genesis a couple of days ago, while gardening.
Hi, I think it’s important to look into the topic a bit more in depth, Dan here only represents one of many plausible interpretive options for why there is a plural here.
He also completely misrepresents the use of the word ‘scholars’ as if everyone who doesn’t have a formal qualification in these matters is incapable of interpreting. Who gets to decide which interpretation is correct? Surely the author?
@henryizzard4581but with Genesis we don't know the author so the best you can do is interpret it. As to your other point, is academia the only place where you think people who have formally studied should be just as listened to as any other person?
You should mention Francesca Stavrakopoulou's wonderful book, God: An Anatomy, which lays out the history of God in terms of his body, and his wife, Asherah. It's incredibly telling.
Another banger
So later biblical authors and theologians downgraded the other gods to angels. That's just rude. 🤣
Btw Dan, iirc, you said in a previous video that you were planning on writing a book surveying the evolution of God, their prominence and powers, over the course of the Bible's writing. I hope I'm correct in that recollection, and that you're still on track with writing it. 🍻
Folks at my grandma's church invited me to stop coming when I suggested God had evolved over the course of the Bible and wanted to reconcile this "forever and ever, amen" stuff.
@@NWPaul72I guess that's the 21st-century equivalent of being stoned to death, or bring burned at the stake.
Being uninvited to attend church? Now that's what I call a blessing in disguise. 😊
The gods of the Irish were "demoted" to the Fair Folk, if not human beings. Seems to be a pattern.
Very good Dan. Love your work. imo Perennial Christianity, a word I made up lol, is the answer to all the academic trouble with theology. If the first cause that we can even consider , is the being that became or was one with Yeshua, an infinite within and authorizing another infinite ie becoming one outside the bounds of time and space ie ...always have been one. And then that divinity, expresses itself within the knowledge and growth level of each culture in various ways.....we have Yeshua, holding the heart above all knowledge and after all...isn't it the heart that matters? Great Video Dan. Keep it up.
I wrote a fiction novel [not in any store since my name isn't known and having a book published is quite arduous] that has to do with the concepts of the ancient "gods" and how people saw them. In the novel, they were entities of another dimension who wanted to see if they could create, within on species of primate, a "connection" that would eventually see them reaching a level of awareness, for the purpose of eventually interacting with them. Some of the "deities" humans associated with these entities were the likes of deities of Mesopotamia, but also Yahweh and even Jesus, to an extent. But I really should work in the notion of the "Elohim" character as one of the architects of this "experiment". It's been enjoyable creating a story around these ancient systems.
Amazon used to have a self publishing option, accessible to anyone afaik. You can look into it if you are ok with publishing as e-book. However my advice is to make sure you have a well written book first. Good luck.
@@pansepot1490 I appreciate your advice. An e-book would be acceptable, especially since as it is now, it has only been a work of interest, and enjoyment, for myself. If a few gain some level of enjoyment as a result, that will be an extra benefit. Thanks!
To all things with the breath of life
Alright, which one of you concretized my abstract plural
Don't threaten me with a good time. 😂
Sorry about that. :(
Sounds like something went wrong on The British Bake Off.
"Oh, deary, you overworked your abstract plural, and it concretized. That's rubbish now, innit?"
@@kyleepratt😂😂😂
@@kyleepratt Oh dear, back to the drawing board?
The spiritual world is as physical as the physical world they are two makings made by one Supreme being
The Living God was simply speaking to his Son, and possibly a number of others, archangels and such.
The original context of Judaism is not monotheism but henotheism. Where there is a powerful God that is the source of other lesser gods.
Thanks!
I’m still amazed that Protestant churches can high jacked Jewish text to mean something it doesn’t from this verse like a Trinity doctrine. Then herald it around like they have the only truth. Not knowing the trinity doctrine was a later innovation.
This is a video all Christians should watch that scribe to trinitarianism.
This isn't unique. Christians see Jesus all over the Hebrew Bible where it doesn't exist. High jacked indeed.
to reply to the title of the video:
God asked the other gods for help because he couldn't do it alone.
And that's why he says "us" and "our"
THIS is the true explanation, ODIN told me so.
Dan McClellan is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), commonly known as the Mormon Church. He has been actively involved in the church, even working as a scripture translation supervisor for the church for many years. Although he engages in complex and critical discussions about religious texts, he remains an active member of the LDS Church, contributing to both scholarly and faith-based conversations about religion and the Bible.
It seems you are correct based on his Wikipedia page
Oh so his no good thank god 😂I won’t tune n anymore
so?
That explains a lot.
I'm normally not a fan of Dan and think his takes are misleading, but this was a really well done video with examples throughout. Great work! I obviously disagree with Dan on the Trinity just because his interpretive grid and mine will always take us to separate conclusions. But he brings up good Divine Council points to a debate that I'm currently 50/50 on (whether the Divine Council is satirical and rhetorical or literal. I think both have solid arguments).
I would say that whether or not the Divine council is "real", the ancient Israelites and their neighbors certainly believed it was. He has a really fascinating lecture available on his website on the divine council where he digs into all the sources.
@KWade-bt4dc That's what I meant by "real" is whether they took it "literally" or not. I'm always interested to read divine council content. I'm not sure if I'll learn anything new, but if there's a chance of learning I'm all in. 🙂 You said website specifically. I can't find the lesson you're talking about on RUclips? I have to access it through his website?
It's odd that a book inspired by an all-powerful and all-knowing deity even needs to be interpreted by human beings, because its meaning is not obvious, in the first place. I'm glad you pointed out that what the serpent said to Adam and Eve was true and what God told them was false (which God admits to later in the text). Most people miss that or bend themselves into pretzels to explain it, even though the text is pretty darn clear.
My favorite part of Genesis is noticing that the sun is not created until the fourth "day". How did those first three days happen without a sun? Simple: The people who wrote that knew that the sun CAME OUT during the day, but they didn't know that it actually CAUSES the day. It looks small and close so it makes sense for them to think it was just a chariot that crossed the sky each day. This is why it was mentioned almost as an afterthought and why Joshua could stop it from moving across the sky (instead of saying that the Earth would stop spinning).
If the bible were inspired, which I don't believe, the concept of trinity wouldn't have needed to exist with men for God to inspire the wording in Genesis as such. And yes, there was the El pantheon. But fundamentalism doesn't have a crisis over findings of scholarship.
Jews acctually don't belive the whole Hebrew bible is inspired and what is inspired in the scriptures are just the prophecies
And then Joseph Smith dreamed up his own explanation for the plural.
Jupiter aka IU Pittar is both male (I) and female (U). We are all made in the image of Jupiter, neither male nor female, but male and female. The male part is found in Rev. 9.5. as the five signs/months of Scorpion thru Pisces. The female part follows as the sacred seven signs/months.
The image is our image, WHAT WE EACH SEE IN OUR MIND is the image(imagine), now the first sin is Christ’s alone, He asked why we chose other Gods than Himself(insecurity) because in the beginning was many Gods after the original Word(some think Cain and Able are the other colours) today science has found that four Mushrooms have lost the ability to to digest decay so now they eat with the trees(first temple)where water brought back the tender plants.
According to the creation account in Proverbs, God must be talking to Lady Wisdom.
According to the creation account in Job, God might be talking to Leviathan daring her to stop him.
According to the creation account in John, probably God is talking to the Word instructing the latter what to do.
That assumes the writers of all those books were working from the same view of cosmology and god. Those examples were written at different times and by different authors, and it isn’t accurate to assume they were in perfect harmony on those points.
@@Aldrnari956 I know, I'm just trolling lol.
I'll give a pass to the consort, but one of the second tier deities should be able to pop down to earth and straighten us out on what the main deity wants us to do.
@@creamwobbly Ah my favorite Goon. Bluebottle. :)
Hey Dan,
I have a question. In other cultures around Israel, the image of a god usually was a statue in which the spirit of the god lived after the inauguration ceremony and then the god was worshiped through the image.
If human beings are the image of god, why do we have them being created "in" and not "as" the image of god? Is there a special meaning behind the "in"?
Thanks, Thomas
A pantheon of gods …. Probably thousands one for every tribe… suddenly all vanished…..that’s some F’d up stuff
The first part is spirit the tangible part is earthly or physical
Since all I had to go on was the KJV, I always assumed this was an occurrence of the British “royal” we.
For the same reason he says, “I am the Lord, YOUR god. You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME.”
The authors were polytheists.
You speak pretty good Hebrew for a Mc. 😉
Isaiah 43:10, but okay "scholar." How's the counting going by the way? I would assume you have no idea the number or how great. The comments who are agreeing with you are perhaps a hint, but even I draw towards curiosity the number of souls you're doing your absolute best to keep on the broad road. You probably don't even notice. Not many do.
Very well said. This guy hides behind his title to belittle the Christian faith as much as he can
The divine council.
The first mistake is thinking God said it! That book has served to divide, confuse and conquer. It requires an open mind, much knowledge, and wisdom to realize how people have been deceived into believing a lie. The strong delusion is no joke! Once you discover the truth behind the book then you’ll wonder why you did not discover it sooner. But if your eyes are to shut you’ll never see it! The truth is not easy for the ears and most people prefer to ignore it and remain in the box.
Excellent 👍
Mormons are right.
Right out of their minds.
@@bukowski20 How so? This lines up exactly with our doctrine. We are out of our minds because we believe in the fullness of the Gospel? Explain that one.
Trinity was operative. It took time to develop the language like Trinity etc. Ancient church traditions believed in a truine God long before the language for it wss crafted.
I’ve heard it said that “knowledge of good and evil” really means knowledge of everything. Like how we say someone knows “everything from A to Z”. Is this correct?
I remember seeing a video of this guy saying Jesus is not God because he said "there is none good but one, that is, God" without mentioning Jesus says "I am the Good Shepherd" in John 10.
Which rather proves another point of Dan's, that the bible is not univocal.
@@tezzerii 1 Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Well, the work of the scholars is not to discern things spiritually. That's data over dogma.
Leave the spiritual discerning to theologians.
The only issue I see with this line of reasoning is that calling himself "the Shepherd", doesn't automatically equate to "I am God." Also, it shows the that the writers of the Gospels apparently had very different concepts of who they thought Jesus was, so, if Jesus is God, it is very deceptive to say "only God is good." It seems like he's pretending to NOT be who he really is.
@@Noviraptor - - And - - - ?
He was talking to the angels
I remember coming across a theory that God had seen a reflection while looking into the "deep".
My honest satirical Answer would be, Maybe God Identifies as They/Them 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
How cool is that.
According to most religious types gender is set and determined by your genetics. Also according to most religious types God is NOT physical/mortal and thus has no genetics and thus no gender. Finally according to most religious types, referring to someone by their chosen gender is woke and something to be avoided.
Thus the only way to be proper is to refer to God as It/They/Them. Referring to God as "He/Him" is woke.
I was taught it was the royal “we”
So would you say this is simply a remnant of Pagan ideals that came before? Considering Christianity absorbed and took a lot of things from Paganism.
Would it be early Christianity/Judaism and writers still trying to mesh it all together before Christianity was around enough to cement its own identity as a religion?
I'm more interested in the meaning of "likeness". What does that mean? That we look like God? That we think like God? Likeness is pretty vague. There have been a number of human species, with differences in their looks. As for the rest of it, well, there were angels, demons, archangels, cherubim, a host of supernatural beings. They were somewhat lower in seniority, but supernatural nevertheless.
They are 2 forms made by one being
If you look at the creation stories of Mesopotamia you will find alot of similarly with the bible.
Hey Dan ! Keep up the good work.
Can you manke a video on the AMORITES? Who were they exactly?
So as a Mormon do you believe that there is a first God or is it just an infinite regress of gods with parents?
Why would God, however, say let "us" ? I get that the other deities are there and sharing a lot of attributes with the highest God (e.g. knowledge, etc) but wouldn't there be only ONE creator God of human beings? Are the other gods also creating with him?
You are correct. There is no "Let US" or "Our" in 1:26. Those words were added. The verse starts the same as the other Creation verses, "Then God said." When it was translated 2,000 years ago, the words Let us, and Our was put in. 1:27 says it all, God created man in his image.
However, the likeness part remains a mystery since no one is made in the likeness of God per Rev 4:3's description of God. Careful examination of the original shows we are made in the "likeness" of the animals he just created. Example: we have hearts, lungs, muscle, brains, ears, nose, hair, we walk, breathe air, eat the same foods and so on, just like the animals he just created.
Therefore, we are made in the image of God, but in the likeness of the animals he created before Adam.
stay in there
Is there any validity to the claim that the "Elohim" refers to the Annunaki, which is then grammatically reflected in the use of the plural of 'gods'? It's not mentioned in this video but curious if there's anything to it.
Is this part of Genesis a reflection on Enoch. I have heard that Enoch speaks of watchers and Demons who taught human beings how to make weapons and other technologies? 🤔.
But the difference between the nominative case plural Elohim, is the same difference as 'we' the gods as a plural. It’s a plurality consciousness. In other words, the concretized abstract is still referring to a collective.
So, God made man in his own image male AND female, and later divided man in a separate male and a separate female. Can we conclude from this that God is also male AND female, and that when God split man up into two halves, man was no longer in the image of God?
Also, it says God put into [undivided] man his spirit. Was the spirit also undivided male AND female?
god was made in man’s image
Creation
Is there anything, uh, concrete, that we have, in terms of what the 'Divine Council' would have been made up of, back when those parts were written? Like, surviving religious texts/references to other deities in the council, or how said council functions, etc.? it feels like a vestigial part of the Bible most Christians probably don't even realize is there, and other than mentioning the most high, I don't think I've heard you talk much about the divine council
The idea of a divine council is basically an assembly of divine beings in thier heavenly home. Olympus is a common example.
There are numerous references in the bible of Yahweh holding council with other divine beings. Psalm 82 being the easiest to find. Job 1:6 alludes to the same idea.
@@MrDalisclock I'm familiar with the concept, but as it pertains specifically to ancient Judeo-Christian beliefs, there seems to be virtually nothing about who those other "divine beings" are.
Since the Judeo-Christian god in modern times is largely considered the creator of everything, the idea that there are other gods, or a god higher than the Judeo-Christian god, seems very strange to me.
If you look on wikipedia's divine council article, for instance, it has a quote "the identities of the members of the assembly are far more obscure than those found in other descriptions of these groups." But "far more obscure" doesn't necessarily mean unspecified or lost to history. If the Judeo-Christian god is the creator of the universe and 'the one true god' or something, then it feels like the presence of other deities that aren't pretenders / false gods is left unexplained, unless perhaps they were children of YHWH and Asherah or something. Or perhaps angels were originally conceived as lesser gods or something?
I believe Dan at some point mentioned that YHWH wasn't originally conceived as creating the entire universe. He's certainly mentioned the "most High" a few times in passing, but as far as Judeo-Christianity having a *pantheon* of gods, it seems like other than a few allusions, there's no details about the other gods. I would imagine in antiquity, there were likely specific gods meant in those passages, that got suppressed the way Asherah did.
I'm just fascinated by the idea of there being other gods in Judaism/Christianity. Perhaps those were just the gods of various other cults that got stomped out when the temple of Jerusalem became the obligatory worship point, and those passages were an attempt to co-exist with other religious beliefs? That'd be neat, if so.
@@Quirken there's some interesting overlap with the Bible and Urgaritc mythology. Not a ton but evidence of a pantheon under El who is married to Asherah and father of the gods, including Ba'al, Anat and Mot.
Some versions of Deuteronomy 32: 8-9 also reference the division of the world amongst the gods, of which Yahweh gets Isreal. It's tucked in there and that particular wording is from the Dead Sea Scrolls so a lot of people handwave it.
The angel thing is fascinating and a lot of ink has been spilled over it. It's possible as isrealite religion become more Yahweh centered the other higher tier gods got slowly pushed out of the pantheon with only minor servant gods being recast as angels, since angel is job description and not a name. Only later do the angels get names and apparently specific responsibilities, like in Daniel.
It's weird and hard to trace honestly. And then there's the cherubim which are a whole thing to themselves, but never called Angels.
YAHWEH GOD WAS TALKING TO TH EIN SOF HE WAS SIMPLY REFRENCING HIS INFINTE ABILITIES TO CREATE NEW BEINFGS JUST LIKE OTHER CREATED BEINGS GOD WAS BOTH TALKING TO HIMSELF , HIS PRESENT CREATIONS , AND HIS FUTURE CREATIONS AS EIN SOL OR EIN IN SELF AS A DUALITY TRI-UNITY AND AS A UNITY AS A INFINITE BEING
Why the yelling?
What does it mean exactly that man is made in Gods image?
If there is a Polytheistic Pagan creed in the Bible, would you take it or reject it?
Believing that there are Gods that look like humans is a Polytheistic Pagan creed.
I reject all made god claims but if I had to pick a system, I would pick polytheism.
Way more fun with a love goddess, a storm god, a sea god etc.
I like Dan. He's usually thorough about the Christian doctrine, but he's wrong about this one. Based on his argument, God and his Devine council created everything together.
YHWH judged the gods and became the snake
Adam, the Christ, judges the earth and becomes a worm
Lilith settled them east of Eden.
Until the day Adam wields the fiery sword in vengeance and judgment;
setting up the abomination of desolation in himself;
as the temple without one stone left standing upon another
@maklelan Is the concretized abstract plural ever used for any noun other than deity? I ask because my own (crackpot) theory is that Elohim as a singular is due to revisionism on the part of monotheistic editors re-writing an existing polytheistic creation myth to harmonize it with an aggressive monotheism, probably during the Exile when you were more likely to get students for whom Hebrew was not their language of day-to-day usage. If concretized abstract plurals are only ever used to refer to deity, I'd see that as consistent with my own (crackpot) theory, but if it's also used of, say, chariots or cooking utensils or whatever, then that would be a strike against it. I saw a summary of Joel Burnett's dissertation, but it doesn't seem to directly address my question, so I thought I'd ask you. Thanks.
Maybe the second tier deities are the Aeons.
so who are these Gods?
The Elohim, The Powerfull Ones aka the Annunaki aka Enki/Enlil or beter knowns as E.T’s, the whole OT is full of them.
Check out the pantheon of the Canaanites, you will find them there.
@@kmj4nsen do you have biblical references from OT
@@samael5782 could Canaan be the birthplace of the Gods
@@kmj4nsenAlien conspiracy nonsense.
So, is the plural of majesty just a made up apologetics excuse?
I come from the John Byrne X-Men era!
OMG. If this is true, why would God make it so difficult to read and understand?? Doesn't make sense to me. There are so many interpretations that it ends up contradicting each other.
Why does the serpent say "Gods", referring to multiple, instead of "God" if there is only "one God"?
Because there exists a kingdom of God and a divine council.
Habakkuk 3:3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran . . . .
Very strange verse indeed. So we have 2 gods? And mount Paran, mount Seir and mount Sinai...🤔
Is that what Jewish scholars would say about plural deities? Many references to the worship of the Baals and others in the OT but that is characterised as apostasy for betraying the one true God of Israel. Plural deities make a nonsense of the reality of God but fit in with human ideas of many deities..
BOOM even the norse gods bro
so why even in the Hebrew bible, tanakh that it is translated to "we".
Shouldn’t have watched this confused me even more idk what the flip Elohim and concretized abstract plural is 💀💀
In comparison to the absence of trinity scriptures in the Bible, what do you make of claims that the Book of Mormon is heavily saturated with Trinitarian doctrine even though the CJCLDS is famously, or infamously depending who you ask, non-Trinitarian?
Easy. They negotiated with the text
He was talking to Odin
2:37 My wife's favorite shirt. :)
Hey Dan, I think that's the sumerian god Enki speaking in the divine council to try and convince the other gods (Espicially Enlil) to create man in order to relief the Igigi gods.
What are your thoughts?
It depends on when it was written I guess.
According to the bible Abraham was born in Ur, Sumer so it is likely he worshipped Enki and Enlil etc.
But the Hebrews were more focused on the Canaanite pantheon, so El, Baal and Asherah.
40 was Enki's sacred number but 70 comes from the 70 sons of El and Asherah.
@@KasperKatje Oh yeah, there is the canaaanite pantheon. The 70 sons of El and the 70 nations from the Old Testament Bible heavily mirror the Canaanite pantheon over the sumerian.
@@KasperKatje It's also likely these stories were borrowed much later and that they are irrelevant to hypotetical beliefs of a fictional character.
@@rimmersbryggeri well, there are a lot of archaeological finds of the worship of Asherah but in the end they are all fictional indeed and didn't stop the switch to sole worship of fictional tribal god Yahweh.
@@KasperKatje I meant that abraham and genesis 1 don't belong to to same narrative or even the mythology of the same tribe so there is little reason to try to shoehorn abraham into it. Abraham lived both in UR and in a place from whre you acould walk to talk to the pharaoh as a man that had allready lived to 200% of the life expectency so I wouldnt take anything said about abraham very sereiosly. Especially assuming that the pharaoh lived in central egypt at the time.
So how does the sentence read in english? Is it "let US make man in OUR image"? As you put in the title?
Sounds just like the Nephilim....that really pi$$ed God off.
Which eventually became cannibalism within Zion's walls.
It's all fun and games until somebody's pet T-Rex ends up with a third of the Lord hanging out of its maw, and a third in its clutch. Just mindlessly noshing away on God.....
Easy, God issued a 'bill of divorce' because of her complaining about having equal time and sends her back to her parents. An easy explanation, nothing mysterious here.
Mr. McClellan, there is no textual evidence of the "holy spirit" in the old testament?
I'm no scholar, but I have studied this very subject in the bible. There's no mention of the holy spirit in the old testament. The spirit of God, however, is mentioned multiple times.
Although, if you replace the word "spirit" (which is Latin for "breathe") by "breathe" or "wind", it works (almost) all the time - the new testament included.
Does anyone here know of Michael Heiser?
The world mission society church of god believes the “us” refers to female deity called god the mother along with god the father created mankind in gods images male and female.
Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels).
They made this realm.
They made man in their image. (tares)
Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels.
Genesis 2:7 the Lord God forms His representative in their system. (wheat)
One Gospel:
Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.