Ya, imagine being a player going out there for WC game 1 and seeing a half empty stadium. Working your ass off all year to make it and bring in the fans just to have them no show.
@@shanes1221 Every year there are 2 or 3PM games during the week & they all sell out or close to sell out. Time is NOT a valid excuse. That shows that Rays don't have enough die hard fans in the area.
This was a smart move for St. Pete and the MLB. It is only dumb for the city of St. Pete and the County to finance another stadium. For the Ownership group they literally are getting free handouts from taxpayers and I am sure they leveraged Tampa against St. Pete and St. Pete caved due to fear of loss and is chipping in $ to fund a good part of the ballpark.
right they weren’t selling out games in their 08 run either. that metro area just doesn’t support their team and they should’ve left for a better fanbase and a better stadium in another city a long time ago
Why does this come as such a surprise? The Rays had an excellent team this year, yet struggled with low attendance all season. Here's 2 things to consider: 1). Floridians are primarily Football people! Baseball is only popular during spring training in Florida. As soon as the pre-season is over, all the teams that do spring training here go North, along with all their fans. So we Florida people are left with the Rays and Marlins, and there just aren't that many fans here. The only hope is that all of these people currently moving to Florida are more Baseball people. 2), It doesn't matter how great of a new stadium gets built. Until point #1 is solved, that new stadium will remain as empty as Tropicana Field is now. And I don't get why so many people hate Tropicana Field. Baseball fans are really spoiled. I grew up in Chicago during the '60's and '70's and both Wrigley Field and the old Comiskey Park were awful back then compared to Tropicana Field today. The ballpark is not the problem. The lack of baseball fans is.
@@ErnieRomero-c2m No they didn't even sell out their playoff games even with the upper deck closed. They sold out exactly one playoff game in the years they were good.
This is proof, that Tampa does not have a lot of passionate Rays fans. The Twins & Phillies did not have any problems yesterday filling the place with loud, die-hard fans.
Phillies dont count because they have had good attendance all season, and besides. Phillies fans dont have to work, they just collect their government check.
The Phillies fans would pack Citizens Bank Park, if the game started at 2:00am on a school night. That’s the difference between having an established passionate fan base
Before Tropicana field was built, Tampa and St. Pete were competing against each other to come up with funding for a baseball stadium. A funded study showed Tampa would have 15k more people in attendance per game. Even with this info, St. Pete built it any way. St. Pete has a small brother complex with Tampa. The last thing St. Pete wants to do is Tampa steal baseball from them. Only around 800 season ticket holders(1k total tickets) have a St. Pete address. A future new stadium will be the same after the newness wears off. Tampa is a no go any ways. It would never pass on the ballot. It will stay in St. Pete because they apparently are using tourist bed tax money and appears to not be going on the ballot.
As a Rays fan living near St. Petersburg, I’m equally as surprised as anyone else that they announced a new stadium in the same spot. The team did try multiple times to move to Tampa, and from what I understand and remember they got nowhere and all the proposed locations kept falling through. Even though I live much closer to the Trop now than I would to any new stadium in Tampa, I still wish it would work out for them to move across the bay. It just makes more sense.
Much agreed. My brother is in Tampa. He tells me St Pete is more affluent and has less crime per capita. Edward James stadium not such a great area. And Tampa as a whole. That's the only thing we can surmise why new ballpark in the same area. Your thoughts?
@@resmarted no. I didn't. Bc the game ends at 6 ish. Rush hour. You're getting home earliest at 730. Who's watching your kids. Or extra $$ to watch them. Plus taking time off work. Double whammy.
** edited comment ** In responding to a question above, I was trying to make the point that the Rays are not staying in St. Petersburg because of a better neighborhood for the stadium, but because they weren’t able to get funding to move to Tampa. In doing so, I made comments that both stadiums were located in bad neighborhoods, which may or may not be true. I decided to pull down those comments because I do not want to speak negatively about my hometown or region.
The new stadium and 80 acre property will be an epic failure. Absolutely no one wants to go walk around outside in the 120 degree heat during Florida summers. Besides that it rains every afternoon/evening in the summer. There’s no demand for it. Just a horrible idea all around.
3 pm on a Tuesday. They announced the time with less than 24hrs notice. They sell out every evening playoff game. 30% increase in attendance this year, population growth, smaller stadium, etc.
@@itsmb8 if that game was at 7pm there would have been 35k minimum, look at every other evening playoff game attendance at the trop. People can’t just leave work for a baseball game unfortunately. Also, Milwaukee is not a smaller market
@@shanes1221 That has nothing to do with it. Out of 30 teams, they had the 27th lowest attendance in the MLB. They only averaged 17,000 fans per game all season, while in first place half of the season. The Brewers and Twins sold out yesterday with the same notice.
It does have to do with it, because 3 of my coworkers would've gone if it wasn't in the middle of the work day. And I'm sure there's others out there in that same position
Baseball destroyed itself when they made it cost prohibitive for any working class kids and families to go to games. In the 1960's I could go to a Chicago Cub game for a little over one dollar along with so many other young fans. New generations do not have much interest in baseball anymore.
I think ownership and the league got the evidence it needed to not build a new ballpark in St. Pete and I don't blame Rays fans as a whole because I do think they have a good fanbase, but the problem is the area is not good as I've been there before and the drive to St. Pete is not a good one. Like somebody was saying before the time of day is an excuse because Minneapolis filled up the Twins game really well and I bet if this game was in Arlington it would've been filled up as well. I think their best bet is to move to downtown Tampa or move to another city. They should not build that new ballpark in St. Pete it's going to end up being a huge waste of money.
MLB is trying to move Milwaukee and the Brewers just had 40k for their game 1. And to add to it, it's their 5th playoff season 5th playoff season since 2018 with just 1 playoff series win so far. If anyone had a right to have a "been there, done that, we know how this ends" attitude its Milwaukee, and they still show out. Tampa ownership and MLB is just what Ginger said, the blind leading the blind.
@@EragorEaglor Rays pulled more people for a similar time game years ago. The truth is that many people moving to St. Pete / Clearwater are from other parts of the country & are fans of other teams (like Yankees, Mets, RedSox, Phillies, etc). The Rays need to move to Tampa or Orlando.
does anywhere in Florida deserve to have a pro team with so many transplants and snowbirds? that place would be full of fans of the visiting team if it was the Yankees or Red Sox
@EragorEaglor even with the brand new stadium on the horizon, they'll still have a tough time putting asses in the seats bc St. Pete is just not a convenient location for most of the population of the Tampa Bay area to get to
@nomadcowatbk Vegas has proved that you can build a strong fanbase even in a city full of transplants. Same with Phoenix. In those places, infrastructure is convenient enough to allow for relatively seamless access in and out of their respective stadiums. The same cannot be said for the Trop and St. Pete. Even the Bucs and Bolts can sell out their games, because they're in an area that's convenient for the larger populace to get into and get out of. It's not the people, it's the location
There’s a fan base…the Rays are one of the top teams for radio and TV ratings. People would rather sit at the bar on the beach watching the game than be in a warehouse watching the game.
TV ratings for the Rays are much lower than all other teams though. Also the Rays social media accounts on Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram are among the least followed. So there’s a fanbase?
They are crazy to stay in FL. Miami doesn't do much better for the Marlins either. If they build the new stadium and nobody comes out to watch them that will be rough. Nashville is set for the Rays if they knew any better
the city of Nashville has ppl from California coming in to live there, dont know why, but its happening, and Calif has 5 teams, so I predict Nashville will have MLB at some time
@@nomadcowatbk they only care about football and basketball in south florida too. The Heat and Dolphins do just fine, the Miami Hurricanes had fantastic attendance until the city decided to give the Orange Bowl site to the Marlins for their new park that they cant even sell out
I remember the Edmonton Oilers during the dynasty years of the 80's didn't sell out their playoff games during the beginning of the playoffs as well. We were spoiled with a good team and really only got excited once the team got deeper into the playoffs. I think the on field success of the Rays over the years have contributed to this situation as well. Mix this with a weekday afternoon game in a stadium hard to get to. Ray's fans "been there, done that" attitude with regards to the beginning of the playoffs is showing. The urgency to be there at the beginning is just not there.
The main difference is the fans in Edmonton in the 80's actually did show up for years and years before waning....whereas they've never really shown up in St. Pete.
That makes sense too. I remember in the 90s when the Atlanta Braves were going to the playoffs every year and Fulton County Stadium wouldn't sell out and probably cuz the fans were spoiled. Now in that beautiful new stadium they get great crowds all year long and it doesn't hurt that they are a great team!
At Turner Field, there were times the Atlanta Braves did not sell out their playoff games either. The Rays stadium needs to be in downtown Tampa. Location matters. As a Braves fan, I thought building a new stadium was pointless, but location does matter.
Here is the difference on that. Those one or two non-sellouts in the early 2000s were only about a thousand or two shy of a sell-out, and it was in Turner Field which had a capacity of almost 50,000. Furthermore, the games in question happened to have empty seats because MLB at last moment changed the time of the game from around 7 pm to 2 or 3 in the afternoon. Some people were caught by surprise and didn't know the time of the game had been changed, while others simply couldn't get out of work or school. They bumped the Braves to have the Yankees or Red Sox, I think, get the prime time slot. MLB corporate favors New York and Boston over other cities, it is so obvious.
MLB may not exactly be "dying," but overall attendance peaked in the mid-2000s and has been regressing pretty much ever since. It will most likely continue to decrease overall. All these new parks are going to be expensive white elephants. Cities/counties shouldn't pay for them. If the teams want to pony up the money, do it. But the return isn't going to be there. I don't think the percentage of people under 40 who watch baseball and are willing to spend money to go to games (more than once or twice every few years) is anywhere near what it is for 50+. Heck, I'm well above 40 and a former baseball fan (I still like college ball) and I've only been to ONE MLB game in the 2000s. I went to probably 15-20 a year minimum from the mid-'80s to the mid-'90s. The Rockies game I went to at Coors in 2018 seemed more like a party atmosphere than a place where people went to watch an MLB game. If that's the standard, if there's any event to compete with the game, they'll pass.
I would consider Tampa Bay mid market. Small market is KC, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Tampa Bay is on the order of San Diego, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Baltimore, and St. Louis.
Regarding the A's, they (fans) did fill the stadium in their last playoff game in a real season, with like 54000 showing up for the wild card game in 2019 against, ironically, the Tampa Bay Rays. Their argument is a little more believable imo.
Also - the protest game earlier this year was against the Rays. 27000 showed up to a random game on a Tuesday afternoon, 8k more than showed up to a playoff game in Tampa
Ebbets Field on Opening Day back in the 1950s drew less than full capacity and the owner was wanting to build the Dodger Dome at Atlantic and Flatbush where Barclays Center resides. The team moved to Los Angeles in 1958.
My late grandfather never got over the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn, but there were many reasons why. And that's certainly one of them. :)@@davidlafleche1142
In 1983 during the Sixers "fo, fo, fo" playoff run, in the first round, the 2 games at the Spectrum against the Knicks weren't even close to sellouts. But that's because everyone knew the Sixers were going to dispatch them in short order.
When I tried to buy a $ 27 ticket to a Blue Jay game I am automatically transferred to a ticket agency ( scalper with offices ) and by the time I pay the additional fees I end up paying about $ 45 ( U.S. for some reason ) which is about $ 65 Canadian. Thats what happened last time. And believe me, that was definitely the last time
yeah, the Blue Jays fanbase is very bandwagon driven. If the team's playing badly they play before lots of empty seats. But contending, sellout every night. In Toronto only the Maple Leafs can count on sellouts every game (they can be in last place and still sell out). Blue Jays, Raptors, and Toronto FC, not so much...
It depends on what location you put in. If you are outside Toronto they make you go through brokers, being in Canada they are not subject to anti trust laws so they get away with it.
Montreal has been after one of the Florida based teams for years. They have been drawing huge crowds 50K for pre season games for past few years. Go figure what the delay is...
To be entirely fair, as someone who was at that game, it was a Tuesday mid-work week at 3 pm, no other teams had to start that early. That's not to say if this were in Yankee stadium they wouldn't have had a better draw, but you can be damn sure if this were Friday at 7 pm it would have had a good 5-7k more people there.
The Twins started at the same time. They sold out. The Rays were 27th out of 30 teams in attendance this year. No one goes to the games. They averaged only 17,000 fans per game this season. So you're just making excuses.
A new stadium will be the same situation as the Marlins... if you build it still no one will come. This team needs to become the MONTREAL EXPOS 2.0 in the American League East.
It might have a lot to do with the fact the average person can't afford to go to a baseball game anymore, let alone a playoff game with higher cost. A day at the ballpark by yourself is a $200 expense minimum let alone bringing a whole family. And that's with buying the cheapest seats you can find. Between the ticket, parking, food, tolls, etc. it's pretty ridiculous going to a sporting event these days and it's honestly not even worth it. You can find a cheap $20 ticket online and by the time you checkout, it becomes close to $40 because of all the made-up service fees and whatnot. Why even bother? I'm a Mets fan, this past year was the first year I didn't go to a game and that's not just because they stunk. Can't afford it. It's not even enjoyable to go to a game anymore because it's so expensive.
Having a playoff game in the middle of the afternoon during the week just doesn't make any sense in terms of drawing more fans. Also, it is just crazy for the Rays' to build a new ballpark next to Tropicana Field, knowing that the team has had trouble attracting fans to the games.
The ybor stadium rendering with the brick at the bottom of the stadium looked so cool I’m disappointed that there staying in stpetesburg. Let’s pray that deal falls through.
Could they still put the stadium in Ybor City and not spend a billion dollars? PNC Park is one of the highest rated stadiums and the cost was on the low end of the scale. PNC even cost less than Comerica Park, which has always felt like a cheap rushed job (with worse sighlines).
@PlainfieldNJIndepCSC that's stupid. If a highly regarded but small stadium like PNC in a passionate sports town with light rail access doesn't sell out regularly, why would the Rays expect to draw better?
@@Knightmessenger - I agree with you that Sternberg's expectations of drawing 40,000 are "stupid". Nonetheless, those are his expectations. I think a 20,000 seat stadium would be more than sufficient.
Not really the rays have had success in the past couple years the Marlins been an absolute joke of a franchise for 20 years can't really compare the two
I think the elephant in the room in the grand scheme of things is that MLB is in decline. That's why newer stadiums are smaller and older stadiums get remodeled in smaller capacity.
A lot of the MLB stadiums from the 70s-90s were multipurpose stadium that accommodate NFL football. That’s why the stadiums had higher capacities back then.
@@MM33003Yep. Atlanta Fulton County Stadium (Braves) Veterans Stadium (Phillies) Riverfront Stadium (Reds) Three Rivers Stadium (Pirates) Busch Stadium (Cardinals) Kingdome (Mariners) Metrodome (Twins) Astrodome (Astros) Jack Murphy Stadium (Padres) Candlestick Park (Giants) Oakland Alameda Stadium (Athletics) Then there were two stadiums that were football stadiums that they converted for baseball games: Joe Robbie Stadium (Marlins) Mile High Stadium (Rockies) And of course the Nationals played in RFK Stadium in the 2000s before Nationals Park was built.
Black America has totally turned its back on baseball, which it regards as a sport for Whites. That's why cities can get funding for an NFL stadium but not a MLB stadium. Nashville and Charlotte for example. It's as if Josh Johnson, Satchell Page, Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Dusty Baker, Dave Parker and all those greats never happened. Even on sports talk radio it's hard to find any Black host who can talk baseball without being superficial. That's an awful large segment of the population to write off as fans.
Who schedules a playoff game for 3pm on a weekday. People are at work and school. Yes the trop is in a hard to get to location but even if it was in Ybor City in this time frame for the first pitch I bet the attendance would be about the same.
Indoor stadiums are depressing to me. Fake grass and echo sounds without the wind, sun or even a bit of rain. Unpleasant way to play the worlds best sport.
Man, I brought this up the yesterday with a fellow YT'er, good dude, but he thought I was crazy for trying to talk about this. "Hey, its a weekday day game. People have to work...", and I am like "uhh, no, they dont". "They are in a smaller market..." and I am like, "well, maybe they are too small for a ML franchise?". I am sitting around thinking what is dude defending here? Yeah, you show up for a playoff game, I dont care if its a 3Am start time. Let me say this, Baltimore isnt a huge market. We just worked our ass off to take down the mighty AL east. We have waited 40 years for a pennant, not a WS ring...a pennant. WE ARE HUNGRY. WE WILL SHOW UP. As if the concept of calling in sick to work hasnt been employed since the beginning of time for an event like this. Hell, I had a gig at a nightclub that I called in sick to catch game 7 of the ALCS in 2004, between NY and BOS. I HATE BOTH TEAMS!! lol But I am a fan of baseball, and I knew the gravity of that game, and even though I had to make amends for calling out on my boss, over time, he even admitted, I did the right thing, lol. Sorry for the unnecessary story, but yeah, that park is atrocious, but fine. But you better dam well fill it up, like, at least 70% capacity. And, while TB has had great home records (everyone opponent is a depressed ginger when they go to the Trop) it was CLEAR to me, they had no rally in them in game 1 vs TEX because that park atmosphere was SAD. Move the team. Go to like Raleigh, NC or something. There's no team between DC and ATL on the east coast. A NC team could have a big reach and keep their rightful place in the AL EAST.
Charlotte I think would be more fitting than Raleigh as far as a North Carolina team goes but I am not opposed to the Rays moving to Orlando. Keep the team name and Orlando Rays just sounds better, but also I bet they could land the right area to build the stadium and then they could most certainly get better attendance there. I think the Athletics still move to Las Vegas and the expansion teams are going to be in Nashville and Portland.
@@lakerskid2013 Yeah, Nashville would be my second choice. No offense to FL, but we gave them not one, but two franchises, and once Oakland moves on, they are going to be the 1 and 2 teams that stick out the most as the teams that cant draw crowds. So, I dont think Orlando should have a shot. Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh...any of those would be better for the league, I think.
With a lot of senior citizens, Florida should have plenty of people who can attend because they are retired and dont have a job. But when you require someone to drive a car to get to your stadium in heavy traffic, that discourages a lot of people (especially the senior citizens who aren't working) from showing up.
I attended Game 2 yesterday to try to help these numbers. It did get loud for the Rays with only 20k or so in there. There’s fans for this team in Tampa Bay. They’re just in Tampa, not so much in St. Petersburg
@@inconnu4961The A’s aren’t showing up because of ownership and the state of the team. Only four years ago, A’s fans sold out the Coliseum for wild card match.
Unless MLB starts scripting it's games,the Yankees and Red Sox would still need to actually win enough games to qualify for the playoffs. New York and Boston sucked this year. Even had they gone to the playoffs as wildcards,the format would have had them on the road at Tampa or Minnesota anyways. The east coast bias is strong here. What I really sense some fans want is for the Yankees and/or Red Sox to have gotten in as wildcards under the belief that they would sweep the Twins and/or Rays on the road, and give the fans a divisional series against Baltimore and Houston that is stacked with east coast markets. Nobody is crying about the National League Playoffs because the east coast Phillies are going on to play the east coast Braves,while Arizona is going on to play the west coast Dodgers. If people have an issue with smaller market teams in the MLB playoffs,maybe MLB should just shrink the leagues back down to representing the largest cities in the United States only and leave mid sized cities in the minors.
It certainly doesn't help having thousands of online opinions literally telling people to stay away from the Trop, even though there is no doubt that the Trop is outdated among other issues, but the whole demographic of St.Petersburg is changing! The population here(I live in St.Petersburg) is growing! Cranes are everywhere building condominiums and high-rise apartments all over downtown St.Petersburg, along with the anticipated village to further make the numbers of people attending grow! The population is getting younger! MLB and the Rays are making the right decision here! You really have to live here in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties to see the changes happening that these channels fail to inform people about when reporting on the horrible idea to build next to the Trop!
Since you live in SP, let me pose a question to you. Is there a place available directly across the bay from the proposed site where Tampa residents could park their cars in order to board a ferry?
@PlainfieldNJIndepCSC yes there is. Keep in mind that land was truly never an issue (yes, arguably they could build a baseball district in Tampa), however the main issue was always the same: funding.
@PlainfieldNJIndepCSC a ferry service already exists. It is called the Cross Bay Ferry. It currently runs from the Convention Center in Tampa to an area near the St. Pete Pier and the Vinoy Hotel. Currently from there the only way to Tropicana Field from there is the Central Avenue Trolley but a station for the SunRunner is scheduled to be near the area in 2024-2025.
The team should really locate to the location in Orlando. It would draw millions of fans from everwhere catching games while on vacation to Disney, Universal, Sea World, the Convention center... all within 15 minutes. It's also really only an hour or two to St Pete and even closer for Tampa so the same fan base + new Orlando fans + fans from around the world would bring a much larger crowd imo.
Let's get this straight, the Trop's location is cited as a reason for the attendance issues and the current plan is to build the new park _next_ to it?
It's almost like poor city design planning and lack of urban planning in an area makes people hesitant to drive hours in traffic to see a sports game. Honestly, I know it gets a terrible rep but Tropicana Field looks like a perfectly fine place to watch a baseball game. (The sightlines sure look better than Comerica Park) I suspect a brand new state of the art ballpark next door will draw less fans than an exact Tropicana Field replica built in downtown Tampa or Ybor City. Isn't the lease that prevents them from building a new stadium anywhere but St Pete, up soon?
As a person who lives close to Tampa the real issue is never talked about. Its not the location of the stadium (It packs out just fine when NY is in town) Its not due to them not having a so called "Superstar player" or their not being anything to do around the stadium, and its clearly not because they dont win games (obviously).... The real issue is the surrounding area is a place where most people from up north move too. So theres actually not alot of Rays fans period. Because lets just be honest. All the so called issues that are implied when its the Rays all get thrown out the window when the Yankees and Redsox come to town. Theres only one way to fix this. Thats going to Nashville😮
Went to see Yanks at Rays once. Cole pitched a gem, toyed with a no-no into the 8th that night. The venue is simply absolutely awful. I would even describe the drab decor as depressing. And this competes with FL weather in October, which is typically pretty nice. You can't PAY me to attend another event there. Give me the tickets, I wouldn't go.
This just in....20,113 fans in attendance at Perkins Stadium on the campus of the University of Wisconsin - Whitewater for a Division 3 NCAA Football game. Division 3 football in Wisconsin drawing more than a Rays playoff game!
It’s not that simple. Apparently Tropicana is very difficult to get to for people not in St. Pete. Plus there are no public transit options for fans who can’t drive, which excludes another chunk of fans. When a place is difficult to get to even for cars, you know there is an issue.
@@MagicalBreadthat's what I've suspected too. The stadium seems perfectly fine itself. How many baseball fans won't go to a stadium simplu because it's old? So putting a new one won't solve the problem why people don't/can't go and addresses the very thing that is likely not a major factor.
They don’t have time to pause, stadium lease ends in 2027. I live in the area (Hillsborough co) and I rather them to move on this side but Tampa had yearsss to put something together
@@donaldpaluga Orlando would be great for the Rays fans because it’s closer than a Nashville relocation but I would love Expo fans to get a team back to their city!!
@@bryanalan14 You think St. Pete’s would spend money on building some sort of transportation alternatives? Maybe a ferry, train, extra bridge or something??
Welfare franchise. That is 39000 "fans" for a total of 2 games. Don't bring up the game time or your 30 minute commute as an excuse. This was the same for other series and they draw much better. Also, the Rays have been good for a long time... attendance always sucks! A new stadium won't save them! This franchise is the Phoenix Coyotes of MLB.
I get the rays attendance is poor for a playoff game but let’s wait till they have a prime time game to start saying move them it’s 3 pm on a work and school day
People in the Tampa area have to work to be able to afford our atrocious housing costs. Also Driving all the way to st Pete in the horrific traffic in the middle of a week day is a no go.
@@MM33003 Here is what you do not understand. The stadium sits on the side of the Bay that is heavily populated with senior citizen retirees (Pinellas County). The other side of the bay has a much smaller old, retired population, and the other side is also closer to the market of Orlando, as well as the Lakeland-Winter Haven area, and is probably even easier for people from Sarasota, Bradenton, and Ocala to get to. It can pull from a much larger population on that side of the Bay. When there are three bridges that connects most of the population on the east side of the bay where most of the fans would live to the west side, it creates a bottleneck, especially during the week during rush hour. As such, this is a "painful" experience. Most metropolitan areas do not have this unique set of circumstances. Plus, the Rays Stadium is just so drab that it'd scare away fans from most cities.
@@willp.8120 I understand what you’re saying. That’s still not an excuse for drawing less than 20,000 for a playoff game. Most teams sellout playoff tickets within minutes regardless of circumstances.
Doesn’t matter if it’s an entire district revival with this new ballpark. People still have to use the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, The Howard Frankland Bridge, and the Gandy Bridge to get there and many don’t like that.
A new stadium in Oakland would absolutely draw more than the marlins and rays. Just remember the last time there was a playoff game in Oakland the place had 55k people in attendance…
I was there yesterday and noticed how low it was but didn't know it was this bad. It's a shame because I had fun even though they lost and it aucks this happens after the new stadium announcement
A couple of things. I went to the game and it is amazing getting there from Manatee Co. You get there fast and parking is cheap. During the season, the upper deck is never tarped just not sold and closed off, which is kind of dumb. They never draw for playoff games. Went to 2021 vs. Red Sox at night - same thing. Royal Rumble is there in January and you bet it will be full to capacity. The team's ownership is terrible. The new stadium looks like an updated version of the Trop. While i personally will enjoy a new stadium there, it is bad business.
The Tampa area doesn’t deserve an MLB team. Even though the Pirates aren’t that good and attendance is bad. If they were in a playoff game in Pittsburgh, PNC Park would be filled to the rafters.
There was talk of the Rays relocating to Montreal. They need to seriously consider it as they should be accustomed to apathy from their fans after this.
@@tabathasheffroth7981 because it's the fans who make the sport. Sports teams are banned from moving in the UK and there is no closed shop to new teams for promotion and relegation
@@rockerjim8045 l agree that the fans make the sport, but if, as in the Rays' case, the fans aren't attending the games, thereby costing more to field the team than they are making, what reason is there for the team to stay and continue losing money? Any business (and all sports, like it or not, are business) that is not profitable has the right to shut down or relocate.
The Ray's injuries have deluded the pitching staff so you are essentially paying "playoff" prices to see the Durham Bulls. They were scheduled to play Toronto who Spring Train in Dunedin 30 minutes away and play all the time. The Ray's have been in decline since the all star break don't blame the fan's.
Both Twins games were at 3:38pm local time on a weekday. Both sellouts. And the Twin Cities is a little bit bigger than the Tampa Bay area, but it's not as though it's twice as large. And we don't have a roof and sometimes it snows here in October... Like it or not, Tampa and St. Petersburg just are not good baseball cities. Football? Sure, but not baseball, unfortunately.
I think a lot of Tampa fans were disappointed in them not winning the AL east. If it was the alds I’m certain the stadium would have been way more packed.
They don't deserve a team. I'm in Jersey and I have to deal with a $17 GWB toll plus 50 dollar parking and YS would be sold out. How much more proof di u need they don't care about the Rays which is not a bad thing. Some cities are good for baseball and some are not.
The Lightning drew over 25,000 for a playoff game when the Trop was their home.
This is embarrassing for the Rays
What's EMBARRASSING was the way the RAYS played.
@@ShakespereRambulai can’t blame the players for coming out flat when the fans came out flat first
Ya, imagine being a player going out there for WC game 1 and seeing a half empty stadium. Working your ass off all year to make it and bring in the fans just to have them no show.
Hockey is way more entertaining than baseball let’s be real
ANYTIME high school football games draw a higher crowd, time to change the geography.
Under 20k in a playoff game is embarassing!
No it’s funny
What's embarrassing is the time slot they put it in. 300 pm on a Tuesday afternoon when everyone is working
@@Spicychicken8345k in Minnesota for a 3:30 start.
@@tjocus43and they have 39,000+ at target field.they don't have a good fanbase and they should of moved the team out of Florida
@@Spicychicken83it’s playoff game. I can’t even get Orioles tickets under 2 Ben Franklins.
The Rays need to move. That area doesn't deserve them no excuses.
Agree
3:00 on a Wednesday
3pm on a Tuesday, it sells out every night playoff game.
@@maxmolea8196Look at every other playoff game yesterday. The second lowest attended game was over 38k.
Minnesota first pitch was 3:40.
@@shanes1221 Every year there are 2 or 3PM games during the week & they all sell out or close to sell out. Time is NOT a valid excuse. That shows that Rays don't have enough die hard fans in the area.
Baseball in Florida has clearly been a DISASTER
Populating Florida has been a disaster.
Where woke baseball goes to die
Florida is good for spring training and not much else as far as baseball goes unfortunately
Yeah people in Florida only care attending football and basketball games and beach/ resort lol
YEP! Ever since the RAYS came into the league. At least the 'Marlins' were able to win the whole enchilada .... TWICE!
The dumbest idea in MLB history is to build another stadium in St. Pete instead of Tampa.
The dumbest idea in MLB history is to keep baseball teams in FL when people in FL clearly don't care about baseball.
The cross bridge traffic between the 2 cities is atrocious
They should honestly just stay where they are at and build around the Trop
This was a smart move for St. Pete and the MLB. It is only dumb for the city of St. Pete and the County to finance another stadium. For the Ownership group they literally are getting free handouts from taxpayers and I am sure they leveraged Tampa against St. Pete and St. Pete caved due to fear of loss and is chipping in $ to fund a good part of the ballpark.
Even the Athletics filled up the Collessium for playoff baseball
Ah no they didn't they never sold out any game and their attendance was not that great during the playoffs either.
Not true they were packed in the playoffs
The Arizona Coyotes of MLB
Edit: think about this, too. The Rockies always draw 25-30k per game…and they had over 100 losses this year.
Not just the Coyotes. All AZ teams are bad
right they weren’t selling out games in their 08 run either. that metro area just doesn’t support their team and they should’ve left for a better fanbase and a better stadium in another city a long time ago
Sadly even the Coyotes’ fans show up when they go on a run. The problem is that almost never happens.
Why does this come as such a surprise? The Rays had an excellent team this year, yet struggled with low attendance all season.
Here's 2 things to consider:
1). Floridians are primarily Football people! Baseball is only popular during spring training in Florida. As soon as the pre-season is over, all the teams that do spring training here go North, along with all their fans. So we Florida people are left with the Rays and Marlins, and there just aren't that many fans here. The only hope is that all of these people currently moving to Florida are more Baseball people.
2), It doesn't matter how great of a new stadium gets built. Until point #1 is solved, that new stadium will remain as empty as Tropicana Field is now.
And I don't get why so many people hate Tropicana Field. Baseball fans are really spoiled. I grew up in Chicago during the '60's and '70's and both Wrigley Field and the old Comiskey Park were awful back then compared to Tropicana Field today.
The ballpark is not the problem. The lack of baseball fans is.
Imagine having a lower attendance for a home playoff game then four different individual Oakland Athletics home games this season.
No in Oakland games would be sold out.
@@ErnieRomero-c2m No they didn't even sell out their playoff games even with the upper deck closed. They sold out exactly one playoff game in the years they were good.
Lmao
@@scotttildmaybe but it would of had more people than this pathetic showing
This is proof, that Tampa does not have a lot of passionate Rays fans. The Twins & Phillies did not have any problems yesterday filling the place with loud, die-hard fans.
Phillies dont count because they have had good attendance all season, and besides. Phillies fans dont have to work, they just collect their government check.
No lmao it's proof to stop scheduling playoff games at 3pm on a weekday and give everyone a chance to attend them!
Phillies had over 45k (over capacity) last year for a day game during the week!
The Phillies fans would pack Citizens Bank Park, if the game started at 2:00am on a school night. That’s the difference between having an established passionate fan base
@@Brandon-qd2lb38K+ showed up in Minnesota at 3:30pm. Tampa needs to do much better.
Before Tropicana field was built, Tampa and St. Pete were competing against each other to come up with funding for a baseball stadium. A funded study showed Tampa would have 15k more people in attendance per game. Even with this info, St. Pete built it any way. St. Pete has a small brother complex with Tampa. The last thing St. Pete wants to do is Tampa steal baseball from them. Only around 800 season ticket holders(1k total tickets) have a St. Pete address. A future new stadium will be the same after the newness wears off. Tampa is a no go any ways. It would never pass on the ballot. It will stay in St. Pete because they apparently are using tourist bed tax money and appears to not be going on the ballot.
Although it looks like some new hotels are in the plans for the new ballpark complex
@@WinkDaMan07my understanding is that is in the exact same location or within 5 miles of the current stadium right?
@@acruzro95Literally in the carpark of the existing Trop.
@@acruzro95Exact same location, they are building the new stadium in the current parking lot.
To put it in context the Braves held an open scrimmage yesterday and drew a bigger crowd.
Um……no
@@smartluck100there were 25k there for the workouts
@@smartluck100 He's right. We love and appreciate our squad!💪🏽
@@scottbussey499 maybe 25k COMBINED. But not more than 19k for one game
As a Rays fan living near St. Petersburg, I’m equally as surprised as anyone else that they announced a new stadium in the same spot. The team did try multiple times to move to Tampa, and from what I understand and remember they got nowhere and all the proposed locations kept falling through. Even though I live much closer to the Trop now than I would to any new stadium in Tampa, I still wish it would work out for them to move across the bay. It just makes more sense.
Much agreed. My brother is in Tampa. He tells me St Pete is more affluent and has less crime per capita. Edward James stadium not such a great area. And Tampa as a whole. That's the only thing we can surmise why new ballpark in the same area. Your thoughts?
Well did you go to the playoff game?
@@resmarted no. I didn't. Bc the game ends at 6 ish. Rush hour. You're getting home earliest at 730. Who's watching your kids. Or extra $$ to watch them. Plus taking time off work. Double whammy.
@@resmarted no I was working when the game took place.
** edited comment **
In responding to a question above, I was trying to make the point that the Rays are not staying in St. Petersburg because of a better neighborhood for the stadium, but because they weren’t able to get funding to move to Tampa. In doing so, I made comments that both stadiums were located in bad neighborhoods, which may or may not be true. I decided to pull down those comments because I do not want to speak negatively about my hometown or region.
The new stadium and 80 acre property will be an epic failure. Absolutely no one wants to go walk around outside in the 120 degree heat during Florida summers. Besides that it rains every afternoon/evening in the summer. There’s no demand for it. Just a horrible idea all around.
3 pm on a Tuesday. They announced the time with less than 24hrs notice. They sell out every evening playoff game. 30% increase in attendance this year, population growth, smaller stadium, etc.
Milwaukee draws 40k+ in similar situations and its a smaller market on top of it. Rays need to move out of St Pete.
@@itsmb8 if that game was at 7pm there would have been 35k minimum, look at every other evening playoff game attendance at the trop. People can’t just leave work for a baseball game unfortunately. Also, Milwaukee is not a smaller market
3 pm on a Tuesday. School in session. They announced the time to twins fans with 24 hrs noticed. Sold out 39,000
@@shanes1221 That has nothing to do with it. Out of 30 teams, they had the 27th lowest attendance in the MLB. They only averaged 17,000 fans per game all season, while in first place half of the season. The Brewers and Twins sold out yesterday with the same notice.
It does have to do with it, because 3 of my coworkers would've gone if it wasn't in the middle of the work day. And I'm sure there's others out there in that same position
Baseball destroyed itself when they made it cost prohibitive for any working class kids and families to go to games. In the 1960's I could go to a Chicago Cub game for a little over one dollar along with so many other young fans. New generations do not have much interest in baseball anymore.
And add in that going woke has turned off a large fan base. FL is a very conservative State. Just look what’s happening to Disney.
Two words: football first. Many cities like Atlanta prioritise it and basketball over baseball.
@@FigureFarterOakland should have gave Raiders #1 priority over A's
@@FigureFarter The Braves have one of the best attendances in baseball, better than the Falcons.
@@willp.8120 I should have used a city like Cleveland instesd
Also keep in mind, the Rays only averaged 17,781 per game in 2023.
And yet they open the upper deck for playoffs. They opened the seating. No one showed up.
I think ownership and the league got the evidence it needed to not build a new ballpark in St. Pete and I don't blame Rays fans as a whole because I do think they have a good fanbase, but the problem is the area is not good as I've been there before and the drive to St. Pete is not a good one. Like somebody was saying before the time of day is an excuse because Minneapolis filled up the Twins game really well and I bet if this game was in Arlington it would've been filled up as well. I think their best bet is to move to downtown Tampa or move to another city. They should not build that new ballpark in St. Pete it's going to end up being a huge waste of money.
3pm on a Tuesday, take it ease
MLB is trying to move Milwaukee and the Brewers just had 40k for their game 1. And to add to it, it's their 5th playoff season 5th playoff season since 2018 with just 1 playoff series win so far.
If anyone had a right to have a "been there, done that, we know how this ends" attitude its Milwaukee, and they still show out. Tampa ownership and MLB is just what Ginger said, the blind leading the blind.
@@EragorEaglor Rays pulled more people for a similar time game years ago. The truth is that many people moving to St. Pete / Clearwater are from other parts of the country & are fans of other teams (like Yankees, Mets, RedSox, Phillies, etc).
The Rays need to move to Tampa or Orlando.
3pm Minneapolis, MN....twins sold out 39,000.@@shanes1221
@@philpetrucci5569I know in May one person was trying to lure a franchise to Central Florida. Orlando Marlins doesn't sound right
Just embarrassing. This market doesn't deserve to have an MLB team.
Market's fine, the location isn't
does anywhere in Florida deserve to have a pro team with so many transplants and snowbirds? that place would be full of fans of the visiting team if it was the Yankees or Red Sox
population growth and stadium doesn't matter it they keep their loyalties to their hometown team, just ask the Marlins@@EragorEaglor
@EragorEaglor even with the brand new stadium on the horizon, they'll still have a tough time putting asses in the seats bc St. Pete is just not a convenient location for most of the population of the Tampa Bay area to get to
@nomadcowatbk Vegas has proved that you can build a strong fanbase even in a city full of transplants. Same with Phoenix. In those places, infrastructure is convenient enough to allow for relatively seamless access in and out of their respective stadiums. The same cannot be said for the Trop and St. Pete. Even the Bucs and Bolts can sell out their games, because they're in an area that's convenient for the larger populace to get into and get out of. It's not the people, it's the location
There’s a fan base…the Rays are one of the top teams for radio and TV ratings. People would rather sit at the bar on the beach watching the game than be in a warehouse watching the game.
TV ratings for the Rays are much lower than all other teams though.
Also the Rays social media accounts on Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram are among the least followed.
So there’s a fanbase?
They are crazy to stay in FL. Miami doesn't do much better for the Marlins either. If they build the new stadium and nobody comes out to watch them that will be rough. Nashville is set for the Rays if they knew any better
they only care about football in TN
@@nomadcowatbk that describes Florida
the city of Nashville has ppl from California coming in to live there, dont know why, but its happening, and Calif has 5 teams, so I predict Nashville will have MLB at some time
@@matthewkester3677 they are moving there for the music industry
@@nomadcowatbk they only care about football and basketball in south florida too. The Heat and Dolphins do just fine, the Miami Hurricanes had fantastic attendance until the city decided to give the Orange Bowl site to the Marlins for their new park that they cant even sell out
I remember the Edmonton Oilers during the dynasty years of the 80's didn't sell out their playoff games during the beginning of the playoffs as well. We were spoiled with a good team and really only got excited once the team got deeper into the playoffs. I think the on field success of the Rays over the years have contributed to this situation as well. Mix this with a weekday afternoon game in a stadium hard to get to. Ray's fans "been there, done that" attitude with regards to the beginning of the playoffs is showing. The urgency to be there at the beginning is just not there.
i think it is just getting to the stadium is the problem and with the high gas prices going on fans would rather watch it from home.
@@princeofdarknessxyz1 the ratings for the Rays on Bally Sports Sunshine are sky high, so yeah, ppl are watching, they just are not going to the Trop
The main difference is the fans in Edmonton in the 80's actually did show up for years and years before waning....whereas they've never really shown up in St. Pete.
Well, neither the Rays nor their fans have to worry about attendance until next year.
Today their got 20,198 in the building.
That makes sense too. I remember in the 90s when the Atlanta Braves were going to the playoffs every year and Fulton County Stadium wouldn't sell out and probably cuz the fans were spoiled. Now in that beautiful new stadium they get great crowds all year long and it doesn't hurt that they are a great team!
If stl had the season the rays had, bush stadium would have more in attendance at 2 pm on a wednesday with a 1 day notice in the middle of the season
At Turner Field, there were times the Atlanta Braves did not sell out their playoff games either. The Rays stadium needs to be in downtown Tampa. Location matters. As a Braves fan, I thought building a new stadium was pointless, but location does matter.
Here is the difference on that. Those one or two non-sellouts in the early 2000s were only about a thousand or two shy of a sell-out, and it was in Turner Field which had a capacity of almost 50,000. Furthermore, the games in question happened to have empty seats because MLB at last moment changed the time of the game from around 7 pm to 2 or 3 in the afternoon. Some people were caught by surprise and didn't know the time of the game had been changed, while others simply couldn't get out of work or school. They bumped the Braves to have the Yankees or Red Sox, I think, get the prime time slot. MLB corporate favors New York and Boston over other cities, it is so obvious.
Arrowhead stadium in Kansas City is about 25-30 miles from downtown. That's WHY their trying to get a new stadium built in downtown.
@@ShakespereRambula the chiefs have no problem selling out games. Arrowhead is good with grade A upgrades.
MLB may not exactly be "dying," but overall attendance peaked in the mid-2000s and has been regressing pretty much ever since. It will most likely continue to decrease overall. All these new parks are going to be expensive white elephants. Cities/counties shouldn't pay for them. If the teams want to pony up the money, do it. But the return isn't going to be there. I don't think the percentage of people under 40 who watch baseball and are willing to spend money to go to games (more than once or twice every few years) is anywhere near what it is for 50+. Heck, I'm well above 40 and a former baseball fan (I still like college ball) and I've only been to ONE MLB game in the 2000s. I went to probably 15-20 a year minimum from the mid-'80s to the mid-'90s. The Rockies game I went to at Coors in 2018 seemed more like a party atmosphere than a place where people went to watch an MLB game. If that's the standard, if there's any event to compete with the game, they'll pass.
It’s krazy how the talk about the Oakland A’s but the last time Oakland A’s got to the playoffs they had 40k
But Oakland has collapsed as a city since then. Go woke go broke.
It's a small-market expansion team playing in a hard-to-get-to location with a couple days notice on a Wednesday afternoon. What did you expect?
I would consider Tampa Bay mid market.
Small market is KC, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.
Tampa Bay is on the order of San Diego, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Baltimore, and St. Louis.
Most teams would’ve sold out playoff tickets without issues even with the circumstances you just mentioned.
Regarding the A's, they (fans) did fill the stadium in their last playoff game in a real season, with like 54000 showing up for the wild card game in 2019 against, ironically, the Tampa Bay Rays. Their argument is a little more believable imo.
Also - the protest game earlier this year was against the Rays. 27000 showed up to a random game on a Tuesday afternoon, 8k more than showed up to a playoff game in Tampa
The Rays need to move ASAP.
Omaha
@@davidlafleche1142Somewhere in the middle of America.
Oakland Rays, has a nice ring to it 🤔
Montreal
Ebbets Field on Opening Day back in the 1950s drew less than full capacity and the owner was wanting to build the Dodger Dome at Atlantic and Flatbush where Barclays Center resides. The team moved to Los Angeles in 1958.
It would have been impossible to build a baseball stadium with parking in Brooklyn.
My late grandfather never got over the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn, but there were many reasons why. And that's certainly one of them. :)@@davidlafleche1142
In 1983 during the Sixers "fo, fo, fo" playoff run, in the first round, the 2 games at the Spectrum against the Knicks weren't even close to sellouts. But that's because everyone knew the Sixers were going to dispatch them in short order.
That speaks more to the times and popularity of that sport. Those games weren’t even shown live, they were on tape delay. That’s a major bummer when 😂
In 1973 the ALCS was best of 5. Game 5 in Oakland drew about 25k. Oakland has had attendance issues when they were dominant
LOL, this video by one individual has more views than Tampa Bay baseball fans in attendance and the MLB machine behind it!
When I tried to buy a $ 27 ticket to a Blue Jay game I am automatically transferred to a ticket agency ( scalper with offices ) and by the time I pay the additional fees I end up paying about $ 45 ( U.S. for some reason ) which is about $ 65 Canadian. Thats what happened last time. And believe me, that was definitely the last time
yeah, the Blue Jays fanbase is very bandwagon driven. If the team's playing badly they play before lots of empty seats. But contending, sellout every night. In Toronto only the Maple Leafs can count on sellouts every game (they can be in last place and still sell out). Blue Jays, Raptors, and Toronto FC, not so much...
Early October is hockey preseason in Canada Eh, and football season in FL y'all@@racingphotographer8251
It depends on what location you put in. If you are outside Toronto they make you go through brokers, being in Canada they are not subject to anti trust laws so they get away with it.
Ticketmaster….
Boxing horseracing and baseball, are 40's sports that thrived on the radio... but just won't hold up with the newer generations
Montreal has been after one of the Florida based teams for years. They have been drawing huge crowds 50K for pre season games for past few years. Go figure what the delay is...
Need a stadium. Stadium first, then team moves. MLB won’t let them use the big O even if it’s temporary
To be entirely fair, as someone who was at that game, it was a Tuesday mid-work week at 3 pm, no other teams had to start that early. That's not to say if this were in Yankee stadium they wouldn't have had a better draw, but you can be damn sure if this were Friday at 7 pm it would have had a good 5-7k more people there.
The Twins started at the same time. They sold out. The Rays were 27th out of 30 teams in attendance this year. No one goes to the games. They averaged only 17,000 fans per game this season. So you're just making excuses.
I get it, but Milwaukee usually starts that early and still draws close to 40k. Brewers in 2018 had a 4pm Thursday game and drew 43k.
Even if they drew 7,000 more fans, that still sucks.
The Tampa Bay No Way Rays fan attendance has bee an embarrassment for decades. They should be called The Saint Petersburg Rays.
A new stadium will be the same situation as the Marlins... if you build it still no one will come. This team needs to become the MONTREAL EXPOS 2.0 in the American League East.
The mayor is pledged to no public funding towards a baseball stadium
One thing you're forgetting is half the population comes back to Florida in Mid-October, it's virtually unlivable until then
It might have a lot to do with the fact the average person can't afford to go to a baseball game anymore, let alone a playoff game with higher cost.
A day at the ballpark by yourself is a $200 expense minimum let alone bringing a whole family. And that's with buying the cheapest seats you can find. Between the ticket, parking, food, tolls, etc. it's pretty ridiculous going to a sporting event these days and it's honestly not even worth it. You can find a cheap $20 ticket online and by the time you checkout, it becomes close to $40 because of all the made-up service fees and whatnot. Why even bother?
I'm a Mets fan, this past year was the first year I didn't go to a game and that's not just because they stunk. Can't afford it. It's not even enjoyable to go to a game anymore because it's so expensive.
Having a playoff game in the middle of the afternoon during the week just doesn't make any sense in terms of drawing more fans. Also, it is just crazy for the Rays' to build a new ballpark next to Tropicana Field, knowing that the team has had trouble attracting fans to the games.
Funny - they used to have ALL baseball playoff games during the day including World Series - even after all the stadiums had lights.
@@marblox9300 Yes, that's true!
The ybor stadium rendering with the brick at the bottom of the stadium looked so cool I’m disappointed that there staying in stpetesburg. Let’s pray that deal falls through.
Tampa is never going to kick in half a billion for a stadium. A mayor who proposed that would be lynched.
Could they still put the stadium in Ybor City and not spend a billion dollars?
PNC Park is one of the highest rated stadiums and the cost was on the low end of the scale. PNC even cost less than Comerica Park, which has always felt like a cheap rushed job (with worse sighlines).
@@Knightmessenger They COULD, but Sternberg is obsessed with getting a state of the art stadium that seats 40,000.
@PlainfieldNJIndepCSC that's stupid. If a highly regarded but small stadium like PNC in a passionate sports town with light rail access doesn't sell out regularly, why would the Rays expect to draw better?
@@Knightmessenger - I agree with you that Sternberg's expectations of drawing 40,000 are "stupid". Nonetheless, those are his expectations. I think a 20,000 seat stadium would be more than sufficient.
They’re going to end up in the same situation as the Marlins where they have a new stadium and nobody in it !! 🤦🏻♂️🙄
Not really the rays have had success in the past couple years the Marlins been an absolute joke of a franchise for 20 years can't really compare the two
I think the elephant in the room in the grand scheme of things is that MLB is in decline. That's why newer stadiums are smaller and older stadiums get remodeled in smaller capacity.
MLB attendance is up and not in decline
Redshirt making stuff up again 😂
A lot of the MLB stadiums from the 70s-90s were multipurpose stadium that accommodate NFL football. That’s why the stadiums had higher capacities back then.
@@MM33003Yep.
Atlanta Fulton County Stadium (Braves)
Veterans Stadium (Phillies)
Riverfront Stadium (Reds)
Three Rivers Stadium (Pirates)
Busch Stadium (Cardinals)
Kingdome (Mariners)
Metrodome (Twins)
Astrodome (Astros)
Jack Murphy Stadium (Padres)
Candlestick Park (Giants)
Oakland Alameda Stadium (Athletics)
Then there were two stadiums that were football stadiums that they converted for baseball games:
Joe Robbie Stadium (Marlins)
Mile High Stadium (Rockies)
And of course the Nationals played in RFK Stadium in the 2000s before Nationals Park was built.
Black America has totally turned its back on baseball, which it regards as a sport for Whites. That's why cities can get funding for an NFL stadium but not a MLB stadium. Nashville and Charlotte for example. It's as if Josh Johnson, Satchell Page, Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Dusty Baker, Dave Parker and all those greats never happened. Even on sports talk radio it's hard to find any Black host who can talk baseball without being superficial. That's an awful large segment of the population to write off as fans.
Who schedules a playoff game for 3pm on a weekday. People are at work and school. Yes the trop is in a hard to get to location but even if it was in Ybor City in this time frame for the first pitch I bet the attendance would be about the same.
Explain the crowd in Minnesota then
@@donaldpaluga The Jays-Twins games started at 3:30pm central time.
Yep and had 39k. Rays should of put the future stadium in central Hillsborough. Horrible decision.@@afbocc
Indoor stadiums are depressing to me. Fake grass and echo sounds without the wind, sun or even a bit of rain. Unpleasant way to play the worlds best sport.
Man, I brought this up the yesterday with a fellow YT'er, good dude, but he thought I was crazy for trying to talk about this. "Hey, its a weekday day game. People have to work...", and I am like "uhh, no, they dont". "They are in a smaller market..." and I am like, "well, maybe they are too small for a ML franchise?". I am sitting around thinking what is dude defending here? Yeah, you show up for a playoff game, I dont care if its a 3Am start time. Let me say this, Baltimore isnt a huge market. We just worked our ass off to take down the mighty AL east. We have waited 40 years for a pennant, not a WS ring...a pennant. WE ARE HUNGRY. WE WILL SHOW UP. As if the concept of calling in sick to work hasnt been employed since the beginning of time for an event like this. Hell, I had a gig at a nightclub that I called in sick to catch game 7 of the ALCS in 2004, between NY and BOS. I HATE BOTH TEAMS!! lol But I am a fan of baseball, and I knew the gravity of that game, and even though I had to make amends for calling out on my boss, over time, he even admitted, I did the right thing, lol. Sorry for the unnecessary story, but yeah, that park is atrocious, but fine. But you better dam well fill it up, like, at least 70% capacity. And, while TB has had great home records (everyone opponent is a depressed ginger when they go to the Trop) it was CLEAR to me, they had no rally in them in game 1 vs TEX because that park atmosphere was SAD. Move the team. Go to like Raleigh, NC or something. There's no team between DC and ATL on the east coast. A NC team could have a big reach and keep their rightful place in the AL EAST.
Charlotte I think would be more fitting than Raleigh as far as a North Carolina team goes but I am not opposed to the Rays moving to Orlando. Keep the team name and Orlando Rays just sounds better, but also I bet they could land the right area to build the stadium and then they could most certainly get better attendance there. I think the Athletics still move to Las Vegas and the expansion teams are going to be in Nashville and Portland.
@@lakerskid2013 Yeah, Nashville would be my second choice. No offense to FL, but we gave them not one, but two franchises, and once Oakland moves on, they are going to be the 1 and 2 teams that stick out the most as the teams that cant draw crowds. So, I dont think Orlando should have a shot. Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh...any of those would be better for the league, I think.
With a lot of senior citizens, Florida should have plenty of people who can attend because they are retired and dont have a job.
But when you require someone to drive a car to get to your stadium in heavy traffic, that discourages a lot of people (especially the senior citizens who aren't working) from showing up.
I attended Game 2 yesterday to try to help these numbers. It did get loud for the Rays with only 20k or so in there. There’s fans for this team in Tampa Bay. They’re just in Tampa, not so much in St. Petersburg
6:03 I would bet money that Oakland would’ve sold out the coliseum with mount davis included if they had been in the wild card round.
That would never happen at a A’s playoff game
LOL true! The A's have the best fans in the league! All 10 of them!
@@inconnu4961A’s sold out the coliseum for the 2019 wild card game (54k in attendance) and that was against the Rays lol
@@inconnu4961must be new to the game
@@inconnu4961Last time A’s hosted a playoff game with fans, over 50,000 people showed up
@@inconnu4961The A’s aren’t showing up because of ownership and the state of the team.
Only four years ago, A’s fans sold out the Coliseum for wild card match.
Unless MLB starts scripting it's games,the Yankees and Red Sox would still need to actually win enough games to qualify for the playoffs.
New York and Boston sucked this year. Even had they gone to the playoffs as wildcards,the format would have had them on the road at Tampa or
Minnesota anyways.
The east coast bias is strong here. What I really sense some fans want is for the Yankees and/or Red Sox to have gotten in as wildcards under the belief that
they would sweep the Twins and/or Rays on the road, and give the fans a divisional series against Baltimore and Houston that is stacked with east coast
markets.
Nobody is crying about the National League Playoffs because the east coast Phillies are going on to play the east coast Braves,while Arizona is going
on to play the west coast Dodgers.
If people have an issue with smaller market teams in the MLB playoffs,maybe MLB should just shrink the leagues back down to representing the largest
cities in the United States only and leave mid sized cities in the minors.
It certainly doesn't help having thousands of online opinions literally telling people to stay away from the Trop, even though there is no doubt that the Trop is outdated among other issues, but the whole demographic of St.Petersburg is changing! The population here(I live in St.Petersburg) is growing! Cranes are everywhere building condominiums and high-rise apartments all over downtown St.Petersburg, along with the anticipated village to further make the numbers of people attending grow! The population is getting younger! MLB and the Rays are making the right decision here! You really have to live here in Pinellas and Hillsborough counties to see the changes happening that these channels fail to inform people about when reporting on the horrible idea to build next to the Trop!
Very true.
Since you live in SP, let me pose a question to you. Is there a place available directly across the bay from the proposed site where Tampa residents could park their cars in order to board a ferry?
@PlainfieldNJIndepCSC yes there is. Keep in mind that land was truly never an issue (yes, arguably they could build a baseball district in Tampa), however the main issue was always the same: funding.
@@SetheMan Where would you put the ferry to the St. Petersburg stadium? And how good would highway access be to the ferry?
@PlainfieldNJIndepCSC a ferry service already exists. It is called the Cross Bay Ferry. It currently runs from the Convention Center in Tampa to an area near the St. Pete Pier and the Vinoy Hotel. Currently from there the only way to Tropicana Field from there is the Central Avenue Trolley but a station for the SunRunner is scheduled to be near the area in 2024-2025.
The team should really locate to the location in Orlando. It would draw millions of fans from everwhere catching games while on vacation to Disney, Universal, Sea World, the Convention center... all within 15 minutes. It's also really only an hour or two to St Pete and even closer for Tampa so the same fan base + new Orlando fans + fans from around the world would bring a much larger crowd imo.
Let's get this straight, the Trop's location is cited as a reason for the attendance issues and the current plan is to build the new park _next_ to it?
Yes. No public transit access, bad and long traffic for a significant % of the fans who do show up and the new stadium plans to address none of that.
It's almost like poor city design planning and lack of urban planning in an area makes people hesitant to drive hours in traffic to see a sports game.
Honestly, I know it gets a terrible rep but Tropicana Field looks like a perfectly fine place to watch a baseball game. (The sightlines sure look better than Comerica Park)
I suspect a brand new state of the art ballpark next door will draw less fans than an exact Tropicana Field replica built in downtown Tampa or Ybor City. Isn't the lease that prevents them from building a new stadium anywhere but St Pete, up soon?
Twins played afternoon playoff games in the middle of the week too. And they sold out both games. Tropicana sucks.
As a person who lives close to Tampa the real issue is never talked about. Its not the location of the stadium (It packs out just fine when NY is in town) Its not due to them not having a so called "Superstar player" or their not being anything to do around the stadium, and its clearly not because they dont win games (obviously).... The real issue is the surrounding area is a place where most people from up north move too. So theres actually not alot of Rays fans period. Because lets just be honest. All the so called issues that are implied when its the Rays all get thrown out the window when the Yankees and Redsox come to town. Theres only one way to fix this. Thats going to Nashville😮
That’s a disgrace considering that the Rays play pretty well every year!
Move to actual Tampa or Orlando.
40 years.??? These teams are all trying to get new stadiums every 25 years now. TAXPAYER money.
Went to see Yanks at Rays once. Cole pitched a gem, toyed with a no-no into the 8th that night. The venue is simply absolutely awful. I would even describe the drab decor as depressing. And this competes with FL weather in October, which is typically pretty nice. You can't PAY me to attend another event there. Give me the tickets, I wouldn't go.
This just in....20,113 fans in attendance at Perkins Stadium on the campus of the University of Wisconsin - Whitewater for a Division 3 NCAA Football game. Division 3 football in Wisconsin drawing more than a Rays playoff game!
I feel bad for the team itself because they are competitive but the fans make no effort to support the team.
I’ve heard people say their owner sucks and I don’t get it… they’ve been one of the best run teams of the past decade
It’s not that simple. Apparently Tropicana is very difficult to get to for people not in St. Pete.
Plus there are no public transit options for fans who can’t drive, which excludes another chunk of fans.
When a place is difficult to get to even for cars, you know there is an issue.
@@MagicalBread that’s why them not moving with their new stadium is such a big problem. They won’t solve anything
@@MagicalBreadthat's what I've suspected too. The stadium seems perfectly fine itself. How many baseball fans won't go to a stadium simplu because it's old?
So putting a new one won't solve the problem why people don't/can't go and addresses the very thing that is likely not a major factor.
So sick of baseball in St. Petersburg. It’s just not a good baseball town.
Only for spring training, lol.. so what are they thinking
This new ballpark project needs to be paused and they really need to try fight for a piece land in Tampa
*Orlando
@@lovesgucci1*Montreal
They don’t have time to pause, stadium lease ends in 2027. I live in the area (Hillsborough co) and I rather them to move on this side but Tampa had yearsss to put something together
@@donaldpaluga Orlando would be great for the Rays fans because it’s closer than a Nashville relocation but I would love Expo fans to get a team back to their city!!
@@bryanalan14 You think St. Pete’s would spend money on building some sort of transportation alternatives? Maybe a ferry, train, extra bridge or something??
This is really well said and I can tell you put time into this. I couldn’t agree more. It’s got to be Tampa, Raleigh or Nashville.
Tampa? 😂
Welfare franchise. That is 39000 "fans" for a total of 2 games. Don't bring up the game time or your 30 minute commute as an excuse. This was the same for other series and they draw much better. Also, the Rays have been good for a long time... attendance always sucks! A new stadium won't save them! This franchise is the Phoenix Coyotes of MLB.
As a Phillies fan I can't comprehend this...
The Rays does it almost every year, they make it to the playoffs and gets eliminated in the First Round. MLB has to many playoff games.
I get the rays attendance is poor for a playoff game but let’s wait till they have a prime time game to start saying move them it’s 3 pm on a work and school day
Yes but watch at 4:08 !
They couldn’t even give away tickets to the 2008 World Series!!
U r 💯 correct dp!!! I was at some of those turner field playoff games u speak of!!!i remember looking around that place like wtf is going on
People in the Tampa area have to work to be able to afford our atrocious housing costs. Also Driving all the way to st Pete in the horrific traffic in the middle of a week day is a no go.
You make reasonable points.
Yeah, because Tampa is the only place in America with high housing cost and bad traffic. 🙄
@@MM33003
Here is what you do not understand.
The stadium sits on the side of the Bay that is heavily populated with senior citizen retirees (Pinellas County). The other side of the bay has a much smaller old, retired population, and the other side is also closer to the market of Orlando, as well as the Lakeland-Winter Haven area, and is probably even easier for people from Sarasota, Bradenton, and Ocala to get to. It can pull from a much larger population on that side of the Bay.
When there are three bridges that connects most of the population on the east side of the bay where most of the fans would live to the west side, it creates a bottleneck, especially during the week during rush hour. As such, this is a "painful" experience.
Most metropolitan areas do not have this unique set of circumstances.
Plus, the Rays Stadium is just so drab that it'd scare away fans from most cities.
@@willp.8120 I understand what you’re saying. That’s still not an excuse for drawing less than 20,000 for a playoff game. Most teams sellout playoff tickets within minutes regardless of circumstances.
Who wants to be indoors for day games when it's 90 degrees and oppressively humid????
How PITIFUL were the 'RAYS' attendance this post season; MINOR LEAGE games had a HIGHER attendance.
Doesn’t matter if it’s an entire district revival with this new ballpark. People still have to use the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, The Howard Frankland Bridge, and the Gandy Bridge to get there and many don’t like that.
Take sports out of Florida, between Miami and the Rays, this has been very common the past 20 yrs….
Who tf wants to pay $100 and cross that bridge for a baseball game? Not Floridians with better things to do with their day that’s for damn sure
A new stadium in Oakland would absolutely draw more than the marlins and rays. Just remember the last time there was a playoff game in Oakland the place had 55k people in attendance…
Yeah I think the comparison between Oakland and any of the Florida teams is kinda weak. Oakland's a sports town.
I was there yesterday and noticed how low it was but didn't know it was this bad. It's a shame because I had fun even though they lost and it aucks this happens after the new stadium announcement
How easy was it for you to drive to the Trop?
@WinkDaMan07 not bad, tbh I've never thought the drive or traffic was too different then anywhere else in any of the 4 sports tbh
Not ALWAYS! I've seen games end in a SCORELESS TIE ... AFTER over time.
A couple of things. I went to the game and it is amazing getting there from Manatee Co. You get there fast and parking is cheap. During the season, the upper deck is never tarped just not sold and closed off, which is kind of dumb. They never draw for playoff games. Went to 2021 vs. Red Sox at night - same thing. Royal Rumble is there in January and you bet it will be full to capacity. The team's ownership is terrible. The new stadium looks like an updated version of the Trop. While i personally will enjoy a new stadium there, it is bad business.
That looks like Camden Yards on any given day! 😂😂😂
I used to watch baseball everyday, then all the rule changes have pushed me away from the game, you also cant go to a game without selling a kidney
Too many playoff rounds. Just go back to World Series only like the good ol days 😅
That number is sold tickets. That is not how many people came. Way less than what’s reported.
The difference between the a's and the rays is the a's sell 50,000 tickets to playoff games. The a's fans are getting screwed
Tropicana is essentially a satellite Fenway for old people from boston.
You're right....I don't go to the games now.....build a new one....I have no intentions of going to them in the future !
The Tampa area doesn’t deserve an MLB team. Even though the Pirates aren’t that good and attendance is bad. If they were in a playoff game in Pittsburgh, PNC Park would be filled to the rafters.
Well, you don't have to worry about the Pirates proving you wrong.
Well, let's be real, Florida has a lot more entertainment options than western Pennsylvania.
There was talk of the Rays relocating to Montreal. They need to seriously consider it as they should be accustomed to apathy from their fans after this.
Canada is too small a market and the players have to pay huge taxes there having a team is not a good idea
No team should ever be allowed to move city
@@rockerjim8045 Not saying you're wrong, but why do you believe that?
@@tabathasheffroth7981 because it's the fans who make the sport. Sports teams are banned from moving in the UK and there is no closed shop to new teams for promotion and relegation
@@rockerjim8045 l agree that the fans make the sport, but if, as in the Rays' case, the fans aren't attending the games, thereby costing more to field the team than they are making, what reason is there for the team to stay and continue losing money? Any business (and all sports, like it or not, are business) that is not profitable has the right to shut down or relocate.
19K at a playoff game is not the deathknell of modern baseball.
Getting to that stadium is a nightmare and they want to put another one next to it 😂
Florida is terrible for baseball. It's essentially conditioned to be spring training where fans of the teams come down there for a vacation
The Ray's injuries have deluded the pitching staff so you are essentially paying "playoff" prices to see the Durham Bulls. They were scheduled to play Toronto who Spring Train in Dunedin 30 minutes away and play all the time. The Ray's have been in decline since the all star break don't blame the fan's.
Could you be any more in denial? That fan base is horrible. They are absolutely to blame.
Cleveland INDIANS
Both Twins games were at 3:38pm local time on a weekday. Both sellouts. And the Twin Cities is a little bit bigger than the Tampa Bay area, but it's not as though it's twice as large. And we don't have a roof and sometimes it snows here in October...
Like it or not, Tampa and St. Petersburg just are not good baseball cities. Football? Sure, but not baseball, unfortunately.
The statistic you show at 4:00 minutes PROVES, the RAYS NEED to get the HELL OUT OF ST. Pete. They are NOT a baseball friendly town
I think a lot of Tampa fans were disappointed in them not winning the AL east. If it was the alds I’m certain the stadium would have been way more packed.
They don't deserve a team. I'm in Jersey and I have to deal with a $17 GWB toll plus 50 dollar parking and YS would be sold out. How much more proof di u need they don't care about the Rays which is not a bad thing. Some cities are good for baseball and some are not.