▼ *IMPORTANT DETAILS ABOUT VIDEO:* ▼ Thin Kerf table saw blades are MASSIVLY over hyped! I think they can be the wrong choice for many woodworkers. And some people say the wrong blade can lead to disaster! ★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★ Woodturners Wonders is a small, family business that specializes in sharpening gear and innovative products for wood turners and wood workers. DEFINITELY worth checking out! woodturnerswonders.com/ *My Table Saw and Bandsaw are AWSOME! Check them out at Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/ *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Some other useful links:* -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE INEXPENSIVE TOOLS★ - #ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save 10%): shop.isotunes.com/stumpy -BOW Featherboards: amzn.to/430ldhv -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3 -Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6 -Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
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@@ssdj23513 - Track saws aren't terribly powerful, I am not sure you can even buy full-kerf blades for them. They seem to do fine for 3/4-inch material, but I have had deflection issues with thicker hardwood.
Low powered, low-end table saws were all I could afford when I started woodworking. I learned to listen to my saw motor to match the saw cut feed rate to the motor sound. Another thing I learned if scorching became a problem: I'd make my first cut 1/32" wider than I needed, then run the cut a second time 1/32" narrower to remove the scorched wood. Starter level tools do require some hacks/tricks to get better quality results than the tools normally deliver.
Some entry level tools should not be on the market, they do not perform at all.Very low power motors are a curse for example entry level grinders as soon as you put metal near the stone it stops. For an entry level table saw I bought a job site saw thinking if it is used on job sites it will cut wood. Yes, it cuts wood but not very accurately another lesson learned.
Stumpy knows his stuff and is not afraid of meaningful debate. Always professional and courteous but, still impactful in his delivery of factual information. (not, BS hype) The fact that he still has all of hi God-given digits is a testimony that he has some real skill sets.
Right blade for the right cut. Pretty simple formula. But YOU explain, provide room for other opinions and don't shout. You're just a pleasure to listen you.
This is helpful. I want to toss in a tip I got from Matthias Wandel on his channel. Instead of putting in a thin-kerf 10" saw, which possibility Wandel has never mentioned as far as I know, he has demonstrated putting a 7 1/4" circular saw blade in a table saw. One amazing helpful aspect of it is the fact that the torque needed for a 7 1/4" circular saw blade is much less than that needed for a 10" blade. Then too, the kerf on Diablo circular saw blades is 0.059", whereas 3/32" (which is about the thinnest you would get with a conventional 10" blade) is 0.094". The thinner kerf means even less torque being required. True, you can't cut very thick boards with such a blade, but it would not be crazy in all cases to just flip the board over... the little irregularity may not matter, or it can be hand-planed off.
yes about the knife , keep it lubed or waxed as well . been watching you for years know . I have 40 years in woodworking. and you are real and down to earth , thanks
I fully agree with you, James. Two years ago I ditched my thin kerf blades in favor of a high quality full kerf combination blade. For thick hardwood I use a full kerf rip blade. The thin kerf blade caused me all manner of problems. Burning, out of square, more prone to kickback.
as a retired trained furniture maker, i can say i have never expected to get a finished rip edge off a table saw. i always cut slightly over and then take to final size on the jointer or thicknesser. if i had tried to use a saw edge on a glue up my gaffer would have castrated me.
Carpenter turning into woodworker here. Great point, I have had to learn to separate cutting tasks into production phases to increase productivity and accuracy. It seems like everything gets a trip through the jointer now!
I was going to buy a thin kerf combination blade for my 1-3/4 hp Sawstop, but ordered a full kerf blade by mistake. I put it on and my saw was transformed--able to cleanly cut material that I had a hard time with before. And yes, it was a Ridge Carbide.
Thank you for sharing, I totally agree with you. Thin kerf blades should not be used to cut angles, they flex way to much during the cut. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay safe,h cool and healthy.
Finally some one said it. The comment on stability of cut is soo true. Full kerf when ever possible! Change your darn blade! Thin kerf should really be saved for when you NEED a thinner kerf, for saving rare material or thinner reveals/gaps. Also, there is less industrial waste/resource consumption by using good blades that are resharpen-able. I wonder if companies make tangibly more money by making blades that literally use less steel. thanks for another awesome video.
As usual, great info and explanations! And, I agree about Woodturners Wonders. They are a great company, they support and come to the Totally Turning symposium every March in Saratoga Springs NY. What I also saw you using, is Ridge Blades. They are fantastic, turned me from a turner with a table saw to a guy who loves his table saw! I never knew I could get such quality work cutting flat boards in straight lines. Service is fast and friendly.
I have a 1980’s era Craftsman table saw. I use a thin kerf rip blade and a thin kerf crosscut blade because it has a 1 hp motor. I change blades depending on the cut I’m making. I have used a “combination” blade, but it didn’t do either rip or crosscuts well. I also have a full kerf rip blade that I use to “joint” ripped edges. I don’t mind changing blades.
I've been using a Freud 30T thin kerf glue line rip blade, and it has been awesome. Frankly, I was amazed at how well it cuts. My old 1.5 hp Grizzly table saw powers it right through 2+" thick oak, walnut, and maple leaving a beautiful finish, and when cutting a boatload of thin strips I get more strips per board. I didn't buy it for thick wood, but I'm glad I tried it. I also use a Systi-matic rip blade which also leaves a great finish, but it will bog the saw down in thick hardwoods. My saw does not have a riving knife. I've had no misfortunes so far. I've been a serious hobby woodworker for over 40 years.
Your videos are the most informative and thought-provoking content on the internet, with the bonus of not trying to sell you something every time you watch one. With that said, I always go to the list of recommended products, and if there is something I need, I use your link, like with the self-centering drill bits. The advice in this video reminds me of sitting with my grandfather in his shop over 45 years ago. He was a German immigrant who was a cabinet maker in Germany, but he made his money in coal when he came to the US, so woodworking became a hobby. He taught me a lot about safety and a lot about quality. He always said, “The best quality tool makes the best quality product.” When a new product would be released and everybody would run to buy it because it would make them better woodworkers, he would tap his head and say, “This is what makes you better at anything you do, your brain. Learn and perfect the fundamentals, and you will be great at whatever you do!” Your philosophy and perspectives sound a lot like his and bring me back to those fun days of building something unnecessary like his tenth desk because he wanted to do it better. He gave them all away, but I am lucky enough to have the last one he made, his best according to him. A solid walnut desk that weighs over 400 pounds. Thanks for the knowledge and be safe and well.
I think this is why my miter saw is unhappy. For years I used the stock blade which was surprisingly ok, and was not a thin kerf. The replacement blade I bought was a thin kerf, and it just does not sound right. Maybe I should grab one of my dad's circa 1970s blades😂 Always learning from you, and this was very helpful.
Since the body of the blade is thinner, it's also more flexible and easier to warp. It might just be out of balance and can flex more when you're making angled cuts.
@@ericscherbarth1817 That was my thought exactly. Thanks for the info. I think it is worth a better blade to reduce the flex. It is a beast of a saw, so it really should have a sturdier blade.
Thank you for the great advice, James. I'm somewhat of a beginner, so I always enjoy hints from much more experienced woodworkers such as you. I hope you have a fabulous weekend! 😃😃😃❤❤❤
I can totally relate to it. My first bought blade was a cmt combination blade and it worked well. Some issues here and there but still worked great. Then I got some rough white oak and it started to cause issues. Bought dedicated cmt rip blade and that just worked. I thought changing blade would be huge hassle but I just organize my cuts to minimize it and it only take 2mins to change it so I am sticking to it. It just feel more safe!
I bought a nice 1980's Powermatic tablesaw that had a full kerf carbide blade. I immediately noticed better cut quality than the thinner kerf blades that I had been using. Ive been using full kerf blades ever since.
love this video. i have used table saws for over 50 years. you are so right. what i have seen is a dull blade is the most dangerous thing i have seen on a table saw. i have actually seen some of those old blades warping like a wet noodle. scary i have a lot of blades. no thin blades. changing them is not that hard. i don't know about others but ripping wood is mostly what i do on my saw. thanks for all these safety videos.
As a Navy Seabee in Vietnam, we spent aot of time ripping oversupplys of 2 x 8, 2 x 10, and 2 x 12, into badly needed 2 x 4s. Sharp bladed were in high demand. An officer on a trip to Hong Kong picked up a supply and man were they thin. We couldnt rip as straight cut as the bladed would follow the path of least resistance, following grain. The solution was to mount 2 blades together, offsetting the teeth. Safe or not, it worked. I started powwr tool wood wirking in the early 60s.. you didnt mention setless hollow ground blades.
"...setless hollow ground blades." Is that what I have seen called a "planer blade"? As I understand it, planer blades are meant for ripping with minimum waste.
I had those exact same Kromedge" blades. I bought hollow ground stiffener disks that sandwiched the blade in the middle. Lost some depth of cut, but had a straighter cut.
I bought a 10 tooth rip blade and it's a great blade. It's super quick and easy. The thing I like the best is it's square teeth making it perfect for joinery too. Even if I need to cut a 3 inch bridal joint it works great.
I have an old Ryobi BT3000 table saw. The factory blade for it was thin kerf, so most people like myself use one. I use a Freud thin kerf rip blade with no issues. I listen *VERY* carefully to the saw while feeding the wood, and pace it accordingly. I've used both regular and thin kerf blades, and the feed rate makes all the difference, along with making sure it's sharp.
1.5 hp with a 7.25" blade. Thinest kerf. No problems after many years of using this method. When I rarely need greater depth of cut, I generally use .125"x10". When a saw bogs down either slow down or check that everything is as it should be. I've learned a lot from you. Thanks.
Mr Nubs, as usual, offers invaluable information on basic supplies and safety techniques. I appreciate his expertise. I have hand and power tools from my father and his father. All are useful for specific tasks. Newer tool solutions aren't always useful nor long used. Some "game changing" blades were functional duds. I still use steel blades when I deem appropriate. The alternating teeth bent can easily be made with an old fashioned "saw set" which makes a predetermined slight bend. Sharpening is done by a single or double cut flat file. Probably more effort than a worker wants to take today. Use the same technique for hand saws. I still use my grandmother's camel hump hand saw with new handle. My blades run from steel to 60 tooth carbide finishing blade and a custom 1/4 kerf carbide. Mr Nubs is solid and reliable.
I wish more blade manufacturers would publish their thickness of the blade's body, which (as you say) is the most important number when matching it to your riving knife.
All of the Freud Industrial blades I've seen have diagrams printed on them showing the kerf thickness and cut profiles. I'm usually not impressed by gimmick, but with all the holes, cutouts, and anti-vibration laser cuts all over the things they actually seem to work well at eliminating vibration, drift, and heat, and are lightyears better than the consumer level junk they sell at home depot.
I don't have one of those fancy Harvey saws, but I do have a 5 HP 3 phase Jet cabinet saw, but when I changed out to a Ridge Carbide, I have never had a cleaner cut! I did make a splitter, cuz I can't find a riving knife for my saw! I also run a short fence which helps!
Probably going to purchase a finger slicer 3000 tomorrow I have considered nearly all factors except the blade width of the blade to load into it. The information is very good as usual. And as it turns out timely, thanks again
I recently picked us a Freud thin kerf rip, and I am happy, but also quickly realized the limitations. It is wonderful for rips with at least a 1/2" off cut, but does not trim edges well. I have to throw on my full kerf rip for trimming edges. I run a 1.75hp PCS, so it's fine with the full kerf, but the thin kerf is much faster when I am batching out rips. I wouldn't use a thin kerf crosscut blade, because shaving edges is often vital there, but for batching out rips I like the TKR.
Totally agree with the kerf discussion, this is also relevant with cutting some exterior siding wall board, oak and other harder woods and circular (Skil) saw use, thin kerf blades always try to twist even with a fence or a track saw and the finished cut is horrendous. Two items in circular blades, seldom talked about or understood, is total teeth and, the less known, blade angle. Stores are bad at this as well, NEVER indexing them with these details and the manufacturers are also complicit in not putting this on the blade package. In the former (total teeth) the combination (rip/crosscut) blade mitigates your mentioned 'don't want to change blade-itis' but I've seen multiple teeth number/gusset designs for 'combination blades. Blade angle is most important for both feed speed and wood stability in table vs. miter/radial arm applications. Trying to find negative blade angle blades is tough, but a little bit better with compound miter popularity. Unfortunately minimal experience woodworkers tend to buy what's cheaper or what has the glitziest info.
Agree with almost everything. The thin kerf is overhyped. But it is also a perfectly fine blade to use. Cosman uses nothing but Freud thin kerf blades for everything. They work fine. The vibration issue is overblown and you can add the stabilizer if you want, though as pointed out it limits depth. I’ve used both and notice no difference in cut quality. As for two different riving knives, that is no big deal. It’s easy to change and it’s much easier to change the saw blade with the riving knife out anyways.
I use a thin kerf rip on my small Bosch jobsite saw. The thickest material it will ever see is a 2x pine. It does help and this saw is really on used for ripping. Crosscutting is just faster and cleaner on a designated miter box we use as a chop saw. On my 5hp Delta? Full kerf, almost always. I do have one thin kerf I use on this saw, but only for very specific cuts.
I've never found changing table saw blades to be enough of a hassle to not bother. I even swap out my good blade for the factory one when working with construction lumber for shop projects. Now the band saw on the other hand I try to run a bunch of resawing at once before changing back to the normal blade. Always takes a while to get the blade swapped out, aligned, and guides set.
I was coming to comment that part of the issue seems to be what a pain it is to change blades. In isolation, it's not a big deal, but it's not a free action, and doing it repeatedly is enough of a pain to encourage people to compromise. I'd love to see some kind of quick change setup where it's just a few seconds, and maybe no tools, to change a table saw blade.
I use thin or full thickness riving knives. Thicker came with my left tilt unisaw and had to source thinner but I can tell the difference and change for thicker blades. I do like thin kerf blades on table saw but use a bit thicker for sliding mitre saw
I'm a member of an Australian Men's Shed group that owns and operates a SawStop Professional Cabinet saw with a 3HP-rated motor. We originally used 2.4 mm blades but switched to 3.2 mm ones several years ago. The saw is mostly used wfor crosscut purposes, more of the ripping jobs are done with a Laguna 1412 bandsaw.
I have the Delta 36-725. At first I was using a regular 24T thin kurf blade from HD and was struggling when ripping thicker wood. I then got a full kerf 24T flat tooth and it was much easier to rip. Night and day difference.
Love your videos James. They're always well done, educational & humorous. Anyone else notice the (subtle?) product placement tho'? I think I counted 10 items.
Rip blades are awesome! My Freud rip blade was perfectly acceptable on crosscuts. When I had a smaller saw, it was all I used. Now that I have a 3 horse saw, I can run a fat combo blade without a problem.
In my last job I clearly remember the Bandsaw was my table to eat my lunch on, I still struggle now to relax and sit at a table to eat, I will often eat breakfast while standing.
I agree with all of your comments. One more variable in the mix is the massive difference between a 50 tooth combo blade vs a more modern 40 tooth. I describe the 50 tooth as doing nothing well. Terrible for ripping, teeth aren't pointy enough for good crosscuts, requires very slow feed speeds. I believe people stick a full kerf 50 tooth combo blade in a moderately powered saw and are quickly disappointed. So they switch to a thin kerf 50 tooth. They have better results, but they would have a much better result if they simply go with a full kerf 40 tooth general purpose. Another variable that isn't discussed in any discussion on full vs thin kerf is the weight of the stabilizers. If you have a low/moderately powered saw you are turning a thin kerf vs thin kerf + stabilizer(s) vs full kerf. It takes more hp to turn a stabilizer. Also sharpness of the blade becomes a drag. Also table friction(always keep your table waxed). In my experience a modern sharp full kerf 40 tooth combo blade(Forrest, Tenyru, Ridge, Infinity, Freud Fusion) work well in all saws including a modern powerful jobsite. Skip the stabilizer. Full kerf 40 all day everyday until you need the rip or melamine blade.
The best blade I've found for portable saws is the Tenryu Gold Medal 10" x 40 tooth combo. Its a metric(2.8mm) copy of the Forrest Woodworker 2 geometry. I believe you would refer to it as a medium kerf(.111) vs full(.125) vs thin(.091). The Gold Medal is perfect as a finish carpenter saw blade. You need a stiff blade for taking progressive cuts to sneak up on a perfect cut. Thin kerf blades tend to flex when doing shaving cuts. The Gold Medal thinner kerf & lower total weight is noticeable without sacrificing any perceived loss of performance in a portable saw. The carbide is excellent. More like the Forrest/Ridge level not the Freud/Amana/CMT. The Freud Fusion has not lived up to it's reputation as equivalent to Forrest. It has an obvious shortened sharpness due to it's very high ATB 30 degrees and lower quality of carbide. The thin kerf Fusion is very flexy as well.
On your recommendation, James, I picked up some Ridge Carbide blades. Night and day difference. My contractor saw (!) is now producing fine-cabinetry-grade results. The investment in premium blades pays for itself. Thank you as always for your solid information, provided in a pleasant, no-nonsense manner.
I’ve noticed that here in Australia, saw blades from Bunnings (think Home Depot) tend to almost all be thin kerf. Unfortunately, the riving knives on your standard cheap table saw tend to be full kerf. Therefore, you get the wood binding on the riving knife!
I got a thin kerf when I got my saw and it worked well, the only problem being on some woods the kerf was so thin it would bind up on the splitter. When I got dull, I switched to a full kerf blade and haven't noticed any difference in performance when cutting, but I no longer have the problem with it binding on the splitter. So I think there is some consideration of thin kerf blades not opening enough kerf for the splitter.
I had a fancy thinner kerf fine tooth for some plywood veneer stuff I was working on and it was burning quite a lot no matter how I ran it through the material. Switched to a wider kerf with similar tooth profile and I was able to find that goldilocks speed and feed.
I'm of the opinion that blade manufacturers are pushing the thin kerf idea because there is less material in thin kerf blades. Thus, they save a few pennies on every blade sold. I prefer full kerf blades due to the stability during the cut.
Serious question: What about using a thin-kerf blade with a high-powered saw (3hp or 5hp)? Sometimes I want to reduce waste such as when I’m ripping lots of thin strips from a single piece of expensive wood. Pros? Cons?
I bought a Forrest 20 tooth rip blade. WHAT A GAME CHANGER. And the cut is smooth as glass, which surprised me. Also: I was surprised to learn that blades which leave a scorched mark in the cut are in excess of 500 degrees! I had no idea THAT MUCH heat was created by the blade.
I have a thin kerf ripping blade which saves me significant amount of hardwood for my application - cutting 5-6mm planks. With 3mm blade too much goes to dust really. Also had to make new riving knife as stock was really too thick and not fitting in the cut at all.
That riving knife looks like the one from the Sawstop PCS. I made a mistake a few years back and bought a Freud Fusion P410T thin-kerf blade. I didn't think about it, as I'd been using some Diablo thin kerf blades I'd bought years ago at the orange hut for a job site saw and they worked fine. Well the P410T has a kerf of 0.091", so cuts kept binding, and that's when I measured that riving knife and saw the writing on it. The Diablo thin kerf is 0.094" which is more common. Anyway I went back and bought the full kerf version the P410 and it's a wonderful blade. Not quite sure what Freud was thinking on that Fusion thin kerf, but I'd not recommend anyone buy it. I considered getting the thin kerf riving knife, but I have all these other blades and that was the only one which was super thin, so I the P410T in my 10" Miter saw and it works great there.
James, I have 30 year old craftsman cabinet saw that the riving knife and safety were removed right after I got it. Any idea where I might get a riving knife that would fit? After watching your videos I think it’s time to put one on. Thank you so much for your focus on safety.
I totally agree with you .on this. I think they do this because many saws are underpowered Tried some of the thinner blades earlier, If you have enough power the wood you are cutting will cool the blade. if not you will burn the wood and distort the blade. Also when I stopped using a contractor saw , and went to a 3hp. cabinet saw. My blades lasted 3 times longer.
I get great results using a $29 Freud thin kerf blade on my old time delta contractors saw. I am sure I get cleaner cuts than you have seen. On a normal rip cut On my saw looks like a planed edged No saw marks, even under magnification. Some of it is luck, good bearings, good spindle, etc. but a lot of it is from proper setup of the machine which incudes alignment and blade choice and sharpness and using the appropriate feed rate. Thicker blades can withstand more abuse, but are not better.
I’m in the good 40 tooth combo and good full kerf rip blade when I need it on my 1.5HP saw. I also have a good crosscut blade when I need it. One key point: they are good blades, not the cheapest thing at the orange store.
I do have thin kerf rip and crosscut blades (both Freud Diablo) and I do switch between them depending on the cut I am making. I bought them mostly because they were inexpensive and work pretty well for rough cutting. When I need precision for joinery etc., I switch to a full kerf Ridge Carbide blade. I am just a hobbyist woodworker, so I do not mind the extra time for swapping blades or having to take a few passes with a jointers plane before edge gluing. If were making a living woodworking, where time is money, that would change the whole calculus. But for me, if a project takes a few extra days to complete because I am swapping out saw blades... Oh well, that's just more shop time...
I noticed that my thin blade will cut a wobble edge when cutting 45's across the grain making boxes on my crosscut sled but when I move the blade back to 90 it cuts straight again . I did not have that issue before I bought the thin kerf blade so the mass of the thicker blade keeps it true under slight side pressure like cutting 45's .
It’s odd how everyone wants such high precision out of what is essentially a roughing tool like a table saw. Band saws are meant to do precise cuts with their thin and highly supported blade. Table saws shouldn’t be everything tools. They’re not a joiner, and their use as a cross cutting tool is lower than a more rigidly constrained miter saw. They’re breakdown tools, not fine work tools.
I can remember trips with my grandfather to the big hardware store in the City, he would bring a suitcase of carbon steel table saw blades and handsaws to go off to the 'saw doctor' for sharpening. It was part of the service they offered, collecting customer's saws and blades, sending them to a professional sharpening works then having them ready to pick up on the Friday, ready for a weekend of woodworking. These days you are hard pressed to find any blade shapening or repair services.
I use a thin kerf Freud Industrial ripping blade on my contractor saw because it can actually crosscut due to its stupidly aggressive tooth profile. I only use it for ripping and plywood cuts. I have to be very careful to avoid all staples and other metal objects as the teeth will chip easily. Other than that, it really feels like a no compromise blade.
The only thin kerf blades I have are for use in my tracksaw which came with a cheap blade I've never used. Do the same concerns apply? It has a riving knife which I guess was designed for the original thicker blade.
Yes, the same downsides apply. However, track saws (and circular saws) are usually pretty underpowered compared to table saws. So I am not sure you could even get 1/8-kerf blades for them. And I don't recommend going against the manufacturer's recommendations. Since I use my track saw for plywood (mostly) I don't worry about it. But I have had some issues with blade deflection with a track saw when I was cutting 2-inch walnut countertop. I had to use a router with a straight bit to make sure the edge was square after the track saw.
@@StumpyNubs So far it has only been used on composites, UK chipboard particularly and gave a really good finish. But it is also the only circular blade that has ever worked loose on me.
Does the thin blade really run cooler? The thicker plate has more material to dissipate the heat. I'm not sure what wins out, but one does offset the other.
James, I bought a very thin curf blade for resawing but I had to remove the riving knife because the curf was too narrow to clear it. I think it would have been OK for resawing but I used it for a rip cut being to lazy to remount the standard blade. I paid the price with a serious kick back injury that put me in the emergency room with many stitches and a nasty scar. Sometimes we learn the hard way.
Anything that requires removal of safety equipment should cause experienced woodworkers to pause a moment to consider other options. Then again, there are plenty of dumb examples to follow (especially on RUclips) for "monkey see, monkey do" types. The real lesson (hard won, for some of us): every power tool is actively trying to kill or maim you, so it's up to you to maximize the safety of each operation in your shop.
One improvement that mattered more than any other in getting good cuts on a 1 1/2 hp table saw for me: Keep the blades clean. I spray some resin remover on the tips, wait 15 seconds, wipe down the blade, good as new. Improvement is massive over a blade with lots of resin and saw dust build up.
what is your opinion on what I am seeing now as "flat bottom" blades.. the kind the leave a flat bottom in your cut for example using it with multiple number of passes to create a dado? Are they worth the extra money?
Well - the thinnest kerf of all, and the safest, and the quietest, and the cleanest is not off the table saw. It's off the band saw. Properly set up, band saws can rip like a laser. A final pass on the jointer, or a tiny squaring pass on your underpowered table saw, (like my crappy 1 1/2 horse hybrid), does the trick. I just don't rip thick stock on the table saw anymore, and won't when I replace my table saw with a better one, either. Safe, quiet, and clean. Michael Fortune has great advice on band saw set up. This is one place where virtually all manufacturer's advice about blade tracking and aligning and squaring rip fences to "where the saw wants to cut" is just flat, smooth wrong. Try it! You won't go back.
Hello Stumpy: Great video on thin kerf blades. However, Festool’s battery powered track saw is designed to run a thin kerf blade so I’m wondering if they have researched thin kerf blades as you have. They obviously did it to reduce the power required to run the saw thus maintaining battery life for longer periods. Now I guess the issue is what the difference is between the forces on a thin kerf blade might be between a table saw and a Festool track saw.
@StumpyNubs For the record, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Safety is paramount in all situations. Being a novice, one of the largest draws I feel of the thin kerf blade is the potential to maximize the amount of wood you can get out of every project. That full 1/8 (carbide tips) chew up quite a bit of wood when working on projects using smaller boards of lumber. With mounting budgetary constraints in mind, the less wood I have to buy, the more I keep in my pocket, assuming everything goes off without a hitch. If I calculate the number of cuts correctly, while still having back up stock (cuz none of us are perfect) I can potentially save myself the need to purchase extra (or larger) boards, especially if I'm ripping the same board repeatedly. I can save my emergency stock for a future project, have less scraps, and get more out of smaller boards. Just a thought. Thanks for the think piece.
My older table saw has a thick riving knife and with a thin kerf blade the distance between the riving knife and the rip fence is smaller than the distance between the blade's teeth and the rip fence. Work binds between the riving knife and the rip fence. (When I use my full kerf rip blade I don't have a problem.) Given shims are cheaper than blades I'm going to try a 1/32" shim on the side of the blade away from the rip fence, so that the side of the blade near the rip fence lines up with the side of the riving knife. Any thoughts?
Thanks. My contractor saw (1980's Rockwell Model 9) does struggle on rips with the thin blade on it and I will now be switching it to an 8" rip blade which I'll leave on that saw and just do my cross cutting with my old DeWalt RAS, that way I'm not constantly having to change blades. I'll also do my dado cuts with the RAS if only because it is just easier for my big hands to change, not being down in a hole in the table. I'm not really a fan of the thin kerf myself, but when you have a 9" table saw your options become a bit more limited as to what is available in that size. Since I rarely cut anything over 2" thick, a smaller 8" full kerf blade should produce the same supposed benefit of having the 9" blade with a thin kerf.
I've been using 7 1/4" circular saw blades a lot recently for material less than an inch. It's cheaper to buy a two pack than it is to sharpen a full size blade. I haven't had any trouble related to the blade thickness even though these are even smaller than "narrow kerf" blades.
Not disagreeing but I love my Frued thin kerf glue line rip blade and my black walnut cabinets came out great without any scorched edges or bad glue ups for the raised panels....
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Thin Kerf table saw blades are MASSIVLY over hyped! I think they can be the wrong choice for many woodworkers. And some people say the wrong blade can lead to disaster!
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Thank you for uploading this video, because I need to learn something new here
Thin kerf is great for MDF! Less saw dust on the jobsite. Thick kerf on the table saw though, if you want a straight cut.
They used to try and sell me "blade stabilizers" great way to lose depth of cut.
how about track saws with thin kerf blades?
@@ssdj23513 - Track saws aren't terribly powerful, I am not sure you can even buy full-kerf blades for them. They seem to do fine for 3/4-inch material, but I have had deflection issues with thicker hardwood.
Low powered, low-end table saws were all I could afford when I started woodworking. I learned to listen to my saw motor to match the saw cut feed rate to the motor sound. Another thing I learned if scorching became a problem: I'd make my first cut 1/32" wider than I needed, then run the cut a second time 1/32" narrower to remove the scorched wood. Starter level tools do require some hacks/tricks to get better quality results than the tools normally deliver.
Some entry level tools should not be on the market, they do not perform at all.Very low power motors are a curse for example entry level grinders as soon as you put metal near the stone it stops. For an entry level table saw I bought a job site saw thinking if it is used on job sites it will cut wood. Yes, it cuts wood but not very accurately another lesson learned.
My table saw wouldn’t cut 5/4 oak so I got a thin kerf blade but I was told to get blade stabilizers it worked well
That's a great tip, thank you.
“A lot of folks just repeat what they hear without knowing the facts.” Is such a painfully true comment on almost all topics online.
Not just online. Everywhere else, too: in print, in conversation, etc…
I love the fact that you say what you believe, and if others want to argue with you, you're fine with it.
Stumpy knows his stuff and is not afraid of meaningful debate. Always professional and courteous but, still impactful in his delivery of factual information. (not, BS hype) The fact that he still has all of hi God-given digits is a testimony that he has some real skill sets.
Right blade for the right cut. Pretty simple formula. But YOU explain, provide room for other opinions and don't shout. You're just a pleasure to listen you.
AMEN
This is helpful. I want to toss in a tip I got from Matthias Wandel on his channel. Instead of putting in a thin-kerf 10" saw, which possibility Wandel has never mentioned as far as I know, he has demonstrated putting a 7 1/4" circular saw blade in a table saw. One amazing helpful aspect of it is the fact that the torque needed for a 7 1/4" circular saw blade is much less than that needed for a 10" blade. Then too, the kerf on Diablo circular saw blades is 0.059", whereas 3/32" (which is about the thinnest you would get with a conventional 10" blade) is 0.094". The thinner kerf means even less torque being required. True, you can't cut very thick boards with such a blade, but it would not be crazy in all cases to just flip the board over... the little irregularity may not matter, or it can be hand-planed off.
Or, say, birch plywood in 1/2 inch or less thickness? (One of my preferred materials for woodworking.)
yes about the knife , keep it lubed or waxed as well . been watching you for years know . I have 40 years in woodworking. and you are real and down to earth , thanks
I fully agree with you, James. Two years ago I ditched my thin kerf blades in favor of a high quality full kerf combination blade. For thick hardwood I use a full kerf rip blade. The thin kerf blade caused me all manner of problems. Burning, out of square, more prone to kickback.
as a retired trained furniture maker, i can say i have never expected to get a finished rip edge off a table saw. i always cut slightly over and then take to final size on the jointer or thicknesser. if i had tried to use a saw edge on a glue up my gaffer would have castrated me.
Carpenter turning into woodworker here. Great point, I have had to learn to separate cutting tasks into production phases to increase productivity and accuracy. It seems like everything gets a trip through the jointer now!
You can get a smooth surface on one side with planer/hollow ground ? rip blade.
So you have a higher pitched voice today then? :D
I was going to buy a thin kerf combination blade for my 1-3/4 hp Sawstop, but ordered a full kerf blade by mistake. I put it on and my saw was transformed--able to cleanly cut material that I had a hard time with before. And yes, it was a Ridge Carbide.
Thank you for sharing, I totally agree with you. Thin kerf blades should not be used to cut angles, they flex way to much during the cut. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay safe,h cool and healthy.
Great common sense approach to selecting the right blade for the right job. And great safety tips too. Thank you!
Once again, as usual, you are correct. Stumpy is good...Stumpy is wise.
Finally some one said it. The comment on stability of cut is soo true. Full kerf when ever possible! Change your darn blade! Thin kerf should really be saved for when you NEED a thinner kerf, for saving rare material or thinner reveals/gaps. Also, there is less industrial waste/resource consumption by using good blades that are resharpen-able. I wonder if companies make tangibly more money by making blades that literally use less steel.
thanks for another awesome video.
As usual, great info and explanations! And, I agree about Woodturners Wonders. They are a great company, they support and come to the Totally Turning symposium every March in Saratoga Springs NY. What I also saw you using, is Ridge Blades. They are fantastic, turned me from a turner with a table saw to a guy who loves his table saw! I never knew I could get such quality work cutting flat boards in straight lines. Service is fast and friendly.
A sharp, clean blade is always the best blade. When it gets dull or full of pitch it will burn and bog. Thin or full kerf
I have a 1980’s era Craftsman table saw. I use a thin kerf rip blade and a thin kerf crosscut blade because it has a 1 hp motor. I change blades depending on the cut I’m making. I have used a “combination” blade, but it didn’t do either rip or crosscuts well. I also have a full kerf rip blade that I use to “joint” ripped edges. I don’t mind changing blades.
I've been using a Freud 30T thin kerf glue line rip blade, and it has been awesome. Frankly, I was amazed at how well it cuts. My old 1.5 hp Grizzly table saw powers it right through 2+" thick oak, walnut, and maple leaving a beautiful finish, and when cutting a boatload of thin strips I get more strips per board. I didn't buy it for thick wood, but I'm glad I tried it. I also use a Systi-matic rip blade which also leaves a great finish, but it will bog the saw down in thick hardwoods. My saw does not have a riving knife. I've had no misfortunes so far. I've been a serious hobby woodworker for over 40 years.
I appreciate your candor and the information. I have even showed your video of your injury when I hear talk of chain carving. Thank you!
Your videos are the most informative and thought-provoking content on the internet, with the bonus of not trying to sell you something every time you watch one. With that said, I always go to the list of recommended products, and if there is something I need, I use your link, like with the self-centering drill bits.
The advice in this video reminds me of sitting with my grandfather in his shop over 45 years ago. He was a German immigrant who was a cabinet maker in Germany, but he made his money in coal when he came to the US, so woodworking became a hobby. He taught me a lot about safety and a lot about quality. He always said, “The best quality tool makes the best quality product.” When a new product would be released and everybody would run to buy it because it would make them better woodworkers, he would tap his head and say, “This is what makes you better at anything you do, your brain. Learn and perfect the fundamentals, and you will be great at whatever you do!” Your philosophy and perspectives sound a lot like his and bring me back to those fun days of building something unnecessary like his tenth desk because he wanted to do it better. He gave them all away, but I am lucky enough to have the last one he made, his best according to him. A solid walnut desk that weighs over 400 pounds.
Thanks for the knowledge and be safe and well.
I think this is why my miter saw is unhappy. For years I used the stock blade which was surprisingly ok, and was not a thin kerf. The replacement blade I bought was a thin kerf, and it just does not sound right. Maybe I should grab one of my dad's circa 1970s blades😂 Always learning from you, and this was very helpful.
Since the body of the blade is thinner, it's also more flexible and easier to warp. It might just be out of balance and can flex more when you're making angled cuts.
@@ericscherbarth1817 That was my thought exactly. Thanks for the info. I think it is worth a better blade to reduce the flex. It is a beast of a saw, so it really should have a sturdier blade.
Thank you for the great advice, James. I'm somewhat of a beginner, so I always enjoy hints from much more experienced woodworkers such as you. I hope you have a fabulous weekend! 😃😃😃❤❤❤
I can totally relate to it. My first bought blade was a cmt combination blade and it worked well. Some issues here and there but still worked great. Then I got some rough white oak and it started to cause issues. Bought dedicated cmt rip blade and that just worked. I thought changing blade would be huge hassle but I just organize my cuts to minimize it and it only take 2mins to change it so I am sticking to it. It just feel more safe!
I bought a nice 1980's Powermatic tablesaw that had a full kerf carbide blade. I immediately noticed better cut quality than the thinner kerf blades that I had been using.
Ive been using full kerf blades ever since.
Nice. I work in a shed with no power. I run everything off battery by necessity (Kerf blades as std). But understanding wider blades is great. Thanks
love this video. i have used table saws for over 50 years. you are so right. what i have seen is a dull blade is the most dangerous thing i have seen on a table saw. i have actually seen some of those old blades warping like a wet noodle. scary i have a lot of blades. no thin blades. changing them is not that hard. i don't know about others but ripping wood is mostly what i do on my saw. thanks for all these safety videos.
As a Navy Seabee in Vietnam, we spent aot of time ripping oversupplys of 2 x 8, 2 x 10, and 2 x 12, into badly needed 2 x 4s. Sharp bladed were in high demand. An officer on a trip to Hong Kong picked up a supply and man were they thin. We couldnt rip as straight cut as the bladed would follow the path of least resistance, following grain. The solution was to mount 2 blades together, offsetting the teeth. Safe or not, it worked. I started powwr tool wood wirking in the early 60s.. you didnt mention setless hollow ground blades.
Sounds like you made your own dado set to overcome the thin blade distortion.
"...setless hollow ground blades." Is that what I have seen called a "planer blade"? As I understand it, planer blades are meant for ripping with minimum waste.
I too was in the Seabees in Viet Nam… 1965, MCB 10, Chu Lai. First Seabees in Viet Nam, May 65 to Dec. 65. (CES3 Bravo Co.). Those were the days!
I had those exact same Kromedge" blades. I bought hollow ground stiffener disks that sandwiched the blade in the middle. Lost some depth of cut, but had a straighter cut.
I bought a 10 tooth rip blade and it's a great blade. It's super quick and easy. The thing I like the best is it's square teeth making it perfect for joinery too. Even if I need to cut a 3 inch bridal joint it works great.
I have an old Ryobi BT3000 table saw. The factory blade for it was thin kerf, so most people like myself use one. I use a Freud thin kerf rip blade with no issues. I listen *VERY* carefully to the saw while feeding the wood, and pace it accordingly. I've used both regular and thin kerf blades, and the feed rate makes all the difference, along with making sure it's sharp.
I have the same saw. I only pulled it out of the box a couple of years ago so I am still using original blade. Works good.
1.5 hp with a 7.25" blade. Thinest kerf. No problems after many years of using this method. When I rarely need greater depth of cut, I generally use .125"x10". When a saw bogs down either slow down or check that everything is as it should be. I've learned a lot from you. Thanks.
Mr Nubs, as usual, offers invaluable information on basic supplies and safety techniques. I appreciate his expertise. I have hand and power tools from my father and his father. All are useful for specific tasks. Newer tool solutions aren't always useful nor long used. Some "game changing" blades were functional duds. I still use steel blades when I deem appropriate. The alternating teeth bent can easily be made with an old fashioned "saw set" which makes a predetermined slight bend. Sharpening is done by a single or double cut flat file. Probably more effort than a worker wants to take today. Use the same technique for hand saws. I still use my grandmother's camel hump hand saw with new handle. My blades run from steel to 60 tooth carbide finishing blade and a custom 1/4 kerf carbide. Mr Nubs is solid and reliable.
Thanks James. Take care & stay safe.
Great video as always James Thanks for sharing you knowledge and experience
I wish more blade manufacturers would publish their thickness of the blade's body, which (as you say) is the most important number when matching it to your riving knife.
Calipers.
@@James-dq3jo I want to know the thickness *before* I buy the blade.
All of the Freud Industrial blades I've seen have diagrams printed on them showing the kerf thickness and cut profiles. I'm usually not impressed by gimmick, but with all the holes, cutouts, and anti-vibration laser cuts all over the things they actually seem to work well at eliminating vibration, drift, and heat, and are lightyears better than the consumer level junk they sell at home depot.
Great information James, thanks for sharing with us. Stay safe and keep up the great videos. Fred
Thank's very much for the video and I appreciate your opinion.
Another excellent video!
I don't have one of those fancy Harvey saws, but I do have a 5 HP 3 phase Jet cabinet saw, but when I changed out to a Ridge Carbide, I have never had a cleaner cut! I did make a splitter, cuz I can't find a riving knife for my saw! I also run a short fence which helps!
Great video -- thank you for sharing... retired here...
I still have some of my Dad's old Craftsman "Kromedge" blades. I don't use them, just keep them for sentimental value.
And it is hard to find anyone who can sharpen them.
@@dconkey1 True...
I have a couple of things kerf blades but only use them when I’m putting thin slots in pen blanks etc for segmenting.
Probably going to purchase a finger slicer 3000 tomorrow I have considered nearly all factors except the blade width of the blade to load into it. The information is very good as usual. And as it turns out timely, thanks again
I recently picked us a Freud thin kerf rip, and I am happy, but also quickly realized the limitations. It is wonderful for rips with at least a 1/2" off cut, but does not trim edges well. I have to throw on my full kerf rip for trimming edges. I run a 1.75hp PCS, so it's fine with the full kerf, but the thin kerf is much faster when I am batching out rips. I wouldn't use a thin kerf crosscut blade, because shaving edges is often vital there, but for batching out rips I like the TKR.
Totally agree with the kerf discussion, this is also relevant with cutting some exterior siding wall board, oak and other harder woods and circular (Skil) saw use, thin kerf blades always try to twist even with a fence or a track saw and the finished cut is horrendous.
Two items in circular blades, seldom talked about or understood, is total teeth and, the less known, blade angle. Stores are bad at this as well, NEVER indexing them with these details and the manufacturers are also complicit in not putting this on the blade package. In the former (total teeth) the combination (rip/crosscut) blade mitigates your mentioned 'don't want to change blade-itis' but I've seen multiple teeth number/gusset designs for 'combination blades. Blade angle is most important for both feed speed and wood stability in table vs. miter/radial arm applications. Trying to find negative blade angle blades is tough, but a little bit better with compound miter popularity.
Unfortunately minimal experience woodworkers tend to buy what's cheaper or what has the glitziest info.
Agree with almost everything. The thin kerf is overhyped. But it is also a perfectly fine blade to use. Cosman uses nothing but Freud thin kerf blades for everything. They work fine. The vibration issue is overblown and you can add the stabilizer if you want, though as pointed out it limits depth. I’ve used both and notice no difference in cut quality. As for two different riving knives, that is no big deal. It’s easy to change and it’s much easier to change the saw blade with the riving knife out anyways.
I have been thinking about this recently. great timing.
Thanks for all the info, James! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I use a thin kerf rip on my small Bosch jobsite saw. The thickest material it will ever see is a 2x pine. It does help and this saw is really on used for ripping. Crosscutting is just faster and cleaner on a designated miter box we use as a chop saw.
On my 5hp Delta? Full kerf, almost always. I do have one thin kerf I use on this saw, but only for very specific cuts.
I've never found changing table saw blades to be enough of a hassle to not bother. I even swap out my good blade for the factory one when working with construction lumber for shop projects. Now the band saw on the other hand I try to run a bunch of resawing at once before changing back to the normal blade. Always takes a while to get the blade swapped out, aligned, and guides set.
I know planty of colleges that even broke some thooths and keep using their blades, even some blades with some twist in it
I was coming to comment that part of the issue seems to be what a pain it is to change blades. In isolation, it's not a big deal, but it's not a free action, and doing it repeatedly is enough of a pain to encourage people to compromise.
I'd love to see some kind of quick change setup where it's just a few seconds, and maybe no tools, to change a table saw blade.
I use thin or full thickness riving knives. Thicker came with my left tilt unisaw and had to source thinner but I can tell the difference and change for thicker blades. I do like thin kerf blades on table saw but use a bit thicker for sliding mitre saw
I'm a member of an Australian Men's Shed group that owns and operates a SawStop Professional Cabinet saw with a 3HP-rated motor. We originally used 2.4 mm blades but switched to 3.2 mm ones several years ago. The saw is mostly used wfor crosscut purposes, more of the ripping jobs are done with a Laguna 1412 bandsaw.
Hi Pete.
Ok?
Very instructive video. Thanks!
I have the Delta 36-725. At first I was using a regular 24T thin kurf blade from HD and was struggling when ripping thicker wood. I then got a full kerf 24T flat tooth and it was much easier to rip. Night and day difference.
Love your videos James. They're always well done, educational & humorous.
Anyone else notice the (subtle?) product placement tho'? I think I counted 10 items.
Rip blades are awesome! My Freud rip blade was perfectly acceptable on crosscuts. When I had a smaller saw, it was all I used. Now that I have a 3 horse saw, I can run a fat combo blade without a problem.
In my last job I clearly remember the Bandsaw was my table to eat my lunch on, I still struggle now to relax and sit at a table to eat, I will often eat breakfast while standing.
I agree with all of your comments. One more variable in the mix is the massive difference between a 50 tooth combo blade vs a more modern 40 tooth. I describe the 50 tooth as doing nothing well. Terrible for ripping, teeth aren't pointy enough for good crosscuts, requires very slow feed speeds. I believe people stick a full kerf 50 tooth combo blade in a moderately powered saw and are quickly disappointed. So they switch to a thin kerf 50 tooth. They have better results, but they would have a much better result if they simply go with a full kerf 40 tooth general purpose. Another variable that isn't discussed in any discussion on full vs thin kerf is the weight of the stabilizers. If you have a low/moderately powered saw you are turning a thin kerf vs thin kerf + stabilizer(s) vs full kerf. It takes more hp to turn a stabilizer. Also sharpness of the blade becomes a drag. Also table friction(always keep your table waxed). In my experience a modern sharp full kerf 40 tooth combo blade(Forrest, Tenyru, Ridge, Infinity, Freud Fusion) work well in all saws including a modern powerful jobsite. Skip the stabilizer. Full kerf 40 all day everyday until you need the rip or melamine blade.
When a guy is named StubbyNubs gives you safety advice.....you listen!!
It's "Stumpy"
Brownnoser
he speaks from experience. there is no equal
@@donnyford9706 never give up an opportunity to get laid
The best blade I've found for portable saws is the Tenryu Gold Medal 10" x 40 tooth combo. Its a metric(2.8mm) copy of the Forrest Woodworker 2 geometry. I believe you would refer to it as a medium kerf(.111) vs full(.125) vs thin(.091). The Gold Medal is perfect as a finish carpenter saw blade. You need a stiff blade for taking progressive cuts to sneak up on a perfect cut. Thin kerf blades tend to flex when doing shaving cuts. The Gold Medal thinner kerf & lower total weight is noticeable without sacrificing any perceived loss of performance in a portable saw. The carbide is excellent. More like the Forrest/Ridge level not the Freud/Amana/CMT. The Freud Fusion has not lived up to it's reputation as equivalent to Forrest. It has an obvious shortened sharpness due to it's very high ATB 30 degrees and lower quality of carbide. The thin kerf Fusion is very flexy as well.
On your recommendation, James, I picked up some Ridge Carbide blades. Night and day difference. My contractor saw (!) is now producing fine-cabinetry-grade results. The investment in premium blades pays for itself. Thank you as always for your solid information, provided in a pleasant, no-nonsense manner.
I’ve noticed that here in Australia, saw blades from Bunnings (think Home Depot) tend to almost all be thin kerf. Unfortunately, the riving knives on your standard cheap table saw tend to be full kerf. Therefore, you get the wood binding on the riving knife!
I got a thin kerf when I got my saw and it worked well, the only problem being on some woods the kerf was so thin it would bind up on the splitter. When I got dull, I switched to a full kerf blade and haven't noticed any difference in performance when cutting, but I no longer have the problem with it binding on the splitter. So I think there is some consideration of thin kerf blades not opening enough kerf for the splitter.
I had a fancy thinner kerf fine tooth for some plywood veneer stuff I was working on and it was burning quite a lot no matter how I ran it through the material. Switched to a wider kerf with similar tooth profile and I was able to find that goldilocks speed and feed.
I'm of the opinion that blade manufacturers are pushing the thin kerf idea because there is less material in thin kerf blades. Thus, they save a few pennies on every blade sold. I prefer full kerf blades due to the stability during the cut.
Serious question: What about using a thin-kerf blade with a high-powered saw (3hp or 5hp)? Sometimes I want to reduce waste such as when I’m ripping lots of thin strips from a single piece of expensive wood. Pros? Cons?
Isn't that the question the whole video is about?
I bought a Forrest 20 tooth rip blade. WHAT A GAME CHANGER. And the cut is smooth as glass, which surprised me. Also: I was surprised to learn that blades which leave a scorched mark in the cut are in excess of 500 degrees! I had no idea THAT MUCH heat was created by the blade.
Thanks
I have a thin kerf ripping blade which saves me significant amount of hardwood for my application - cutting 5-6mm planks. With 3mm blade too much goes to dust really. Also had to make new riving knife as stock was really too thick and not fitting in the cut at all.
That riving knife looks like the one from the Sawstop PCS. I made a mistake a few years back and bought a Freud Fusion P410T thin-kerf blade. I didn't think about it, as I'd been using some Diablo thin kerf blades I'd bought years ago at the orange hut for a job site saw and they worked fine. Well the P410T has a kerf of 0.091", so cuts kept binding, and that's when I measured that riving knife and saw the writing on it. The Diablo thin kerf is 0.094" which is more common. Anyway I went back and bought the full kerf version the P410 and it's a wonderful blade. Not quite sure what Freud was thinking on that Fusion thin kerf, but I'd not recommend anyone buy it.
I considered getting the thin kerf riving knife, but I have all these other blades and that was the only one which was super thin, so I the P410T in my 10" Miter saw and it works great there.
Good job,keep it up
James, I have 30 year old craftsman cabinet saw that the riving knife and safety were removed right after I got it. Any idea where I might get a riving knife that would fit? After watching your videos I think it’s time to put one on. Thank you so much for your focus on safety.
I totally agree with you .on this. I think they do this because many saws are underpowered Tried some of the thinner blades earlier, If you have enough power the wood you are cutting will cool the blade. if not you will burn the wood and distort the blade. Also when I stopped using a contractor saw , and went to a 3hp. cabinet saw. My blades lasted 3 times longer.
Getting up there towards a million 🔥
Thank you Mr. Nubbs.
Peaceful Skies
I get great results using a $29 Freud thin kerf blade on my old time delta contractors saw. I am sure I get cleaner cuts than you have seen. On a normal rip cut On my saw looks like a planed edged No saw marks, even under magnification. Some of it is luck, good bearings, good spindle, etc. but a lot of it is from proper setup of the machine which incudes alignment and blade choice and sharpness and using the appropriate feed rate.
Thicker blades can withstand more abuse, but are not better.
I remember when we worked at my buddy's Dads lumber yard in the 80s, used to exchange used carbide blades to be reset and resold because of the costs.
I’m in the good 40 tooth combo and good full kerf rip blade when I need it on my 1.5HP saw. I also have a good crosscut blade when I need it. One key point: they are good blades, not the cheapest thing at the orange store.
Just waiting on my thin kerf blade to come from Amazon today. I just might not open it and send it back.😊
Amazing knowledge and videos. Keep it 3
I do have thin kerf rip and crosscut blades (both Freud Diablo) and I do switch between them depending on the cut I am making. I bought them mostly because they were inexpensive and work pretty well for rough cutting. When I need precision for joinery etc., I switch to a full kerf Ridge Carbide blade. I am just a hobbyist woodworker, so I do not mind the extra time for swapping blades or having to take a few passes with a jointers plane before edge gluing. If were making a living woodworking, where time is money, that would change the whole calculus. But for me, if a project takes a few extra days to complete because I am swapping out saw blades... Oh well, that's just more shop time...
I noticed that my thin blade will cut a wobble edge when cutting 45's across the grain making boxes on my crosscut sled but when I move the blade back to 90 it cuts straight again . I did not have that issue before I bought the thin kerf blade so the mass of the thicker blade keeps it true under slight side pressure like cutting 45's .
What about for grain wrap boxes. I’ve always used thin kerf as not to lose too much material.
I like my bandsaw and hand saw more than my tablesaw. I hate dealing with the tablesaw troubles.
It’s odd how everyone wants such high precision out of what is essentially a roughing tool like a table saw. Band saws are meant to do precise cuts with their thin and highly supported blade. Table saws shouldn’t be everything tools. They’re not a joiner, and their use as a cross cutting tool is lower than a more rigidly constrained miter saw.
They’re breakdown tools, not fine work tools.
@@mzaiteI disagree.
What “tablesaw troubles?”
I can remember trips with my grandfather to the big hardware store in the City, he would bring a suitcase of carbon steel table saw blades and handsaws to go off to the 'saw doctor' for sharpening. It was part of the service they offered, collecting customer's saws and blades, sending them to a professional sharpening works then having them ready to pick up on the Friday, ready for a weekend of woodworking. These days you are hard pressed to find any blade shapening or repair services.
I use a thin kerf Freud Industrial ripping blade on my contractor saw because it can actually crosscut due to its stupidly aggressive tooth profile. I only use it for ripping and plywood cuts. I have to be very careful to avoid all staples and other metal objects as the teeth will chip easily. Other than that, it really feels like a no compromise blade.
A thin kerf saves significant material when cutting a lot of then strips, as when milling planks for a cedar strip canoe.
The only thin kerf blades I have are for use in my tracksaw which came with a cheap blade I've never used. Do the same concerns apply? It has a riving knife which I guess was designed for the original thicker blade.
Yes, the same downsides apply. However, track saws (and circular saws) are usually pretty underpowered compared to table saws. So I am not sure you could even get 1/8-kerf blades for them. And I don't recommend going against the manufacturer's recommendations. Since I use my track saw for plywood (mostly) I don't worry about it. But I have had some issues with blade deflection with a track saw when I was cutting 2-inch walnut countertop. I had to use a router with a straight bit to make sure the edge was square after the track saw.
@@StumpyNubs So far it has only been used on composites, UK chipboard particularly and gave a really good finish. But it is also the only circular blade that has ever worked loose on me.
Does the thin blade really run cooler? The thicker plate has more material to dissipate the heat. I'm not sure what wins out, but one does offset the other.
So, I'll use a ripping blade to rip and make sure to use the riving knife if I don't want to rip with a handsaw and stick to my backsaw to crosscut.
James, I bought a very thin curf blade for resawing but I had to remove the riving knife because the curf was too narrow to clear it. I think it would have been OK for resawing but I used it for a rip cut being to lazy to remount the standard blade. I paid the price with a serious kick back injury that put me in the emergency room with many stitches and a nasty scar. Sometimes we learn the hard way.
Anything that requires removal of safety equipment should cause experienced woodworkers to pause a moment to consider other options. Then again, there are plenty of dumb examples to follow (especially on RUclips) for "monkey see, monkey do" types. The real lesson (hard won, for some of us): every power tool is actively trying to kill or maim you, so it's up to you to maximize the safety of each operation in your shop.
@@petergamache5368 Well said!
One improvement that mattered more than any other in getting good cuts on a 1 1/2 hp table saw for me: Keep the blades clean. I spray some resin remover on the tips, wait 15 seconds, wipe down the blade, good as new. Improvement is massive over a blade with lots of resin and saw dust build up.
what is your opinion on what I am seeing now as "flat bottom" blades.. the kind the leave a flat bottom in your cut for example using it with multiple number of passes to create a dado? Are they worth the extra money?
I use flat bottomed blades for joinery. Not all rip blades create a true flat-bottom, but if it does (mine does), then it serves dual purposes.
Well - the thinnest kerf of all, and the safest, and the quietest, and the cleanest is not off the table saw. It's off the band saw. Properly set up, band saws can rip like a laser. A final pass on the jointer, or a tiny squaring pass on your underpowered table saw, (like my crappy 1 1/2 horse hybrid), does the trick. I just don't rip thick stock on the table saw anymore, and won't when I replace my table saw with a better one, either. Safe, quiet, and clean. Michael Fortune has great advice on band saw set up. This is one place where virtually all manufacturer's advice about blade tracking and aligning and squaring rip fences to "where the saw wants to cut" is just flat, smooth wrong. Try it! You won't go back.
Hello Stumpy: Great video on thin kerf blades. However, Festool’s battery powered track saw is designed to run a thin kerf blade so I’m wondering if they have researched thin kerf blades as you have. They obviously did it to reduce the power required to run the saw thus maintaining battery life for longer periods. Now I guess the issue is what the difference is between the forces on a thin kerf blade might be between a table saw and a Festool track saw.
I have had deflection issues when cutting thick hardwood with a Festool track saw.
@StumpyNubs For the record, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Safety is paramount in all situations. Being a novice, one of the largest draws I feel of the thin kerf blade is the potential to maximize the amount of wood you can get out of every project. That full 1/8 (carbide tips) chew up quite a bit of wood when working on projects using smaller boards of lumber. With mounting budgetary constraints in mind, the less wood I have to buy, the more I keep in my pocket, assuming everything goes off without a hitch. If I calculate the number of cuts correctly, while still having back up stock (cuz none of us are perfect) I can potentially save myself the need to purchase extra (or larger) boards, especially if I'm ripping the same board repeatedly. I can save my emergency stock for a future project, have less scraps, and get more out of smaller boards. Just a thought. Thanks for the think piece.
My older table saw has a thick riving knife and with a thin kerf blade the distance between the riving knife and the rip fence is smaller than the distance between the blade's teeth and the rip fence. Work binds between the riving knife and the rip fence. (When I use my full kerf rip blade I don't have a problem.) Given shims are cheaper than blades I'm going to try a 1/32" shim on the side of the blade away from the rip fence, so that the side of the blade near the rip fence lines up with the side of the riving knife. Any thoughts?
Thanks. My contractor saw (1980's Rockwell Model 9) does struggle on rips with the thin blade on it and I will now be switching it to an 8" rip blade which I'll leave on that saw and just do my cross cutting with my old DeWalt RAS, that way I'm not constantly having to change blades. I'll also do my dado cuts with the RAS if only because it is just easier for my big hands to change, not being down in a hole in the table. I'm not really a fan of the thin kerf myself, but when you have a 9" table saw your options become a bit more limited as to what is available in that size. Since I rarely cut anything over 2" thick, a smaller 8" full kerf blade should produce the same supposed benefit of having the 9" blade with a thin kerf.
Great initials BTW
I've been using 7 1/4" circular saw blades a lot recently for material less than an inch. It's cheaper to buy a two pack than it is to sharpen a full size blade. I haven't had any trouble related to the blade thickness even though these are even smaller than "narrow kerf" blades.
Not disagreeing but I love my Frued thin kerf glue line rip blade and my black walnut cabinets came out great without any scorched edges or bad glue ups for the raised panels....