Regarding Fletcher being a devil character: the band Fletcher plays piano with is literally named Zak Faust Quartet (5:26). I know art is subjective, but to me this Faust reference is as definitive as it gets, and I wish I had noticed it when making this video. Thank you to the commenter who pointed it out. All that being said, the art director on this film is Zak Faust, so this reference could be to him and not the classic character. But regardless, there's no way these filmmakers don't know who Faust is, so even if they didn't mean to reference him, they knew what they were doing putting the name in there.
This isn't a film about how you SHOULD succeed, it's how you DO succeed. It's pretty rare to find a successful artist who has an intact life. This film is about what happens majority of the time.
I think it is worth it. The meaning behind the movie in my opinion, is that you need to sacrifice yourself and let those you love go, in order to harness your shadow. This would matchup with fletcher’s portrayal as the devil. He’s not selling his soul precisely, he’s conquered him and can use his power (his drumming ability which fletcher helped unlock)
I left the music industry for similar reasons, but then I jumped to film making... It certainly feels like you have to sell your soul to make it in the arts. I wonder how much mine’s worth.
Yeah which begs the question, is it worth it? Especially when you have so many scumbags that oversee it all. But you can do it outside of all the shit so do it your own way
@@Thisisit1792 That's a good question however I think their are many avenues to creating art without resorting to sacrificing everything like this movie or others would have you believe. You dont have to give up so much of who you are to achieve your dreams. Only pushing yourself to become better and better is the straight way to go.
"It certainly feels like you have to sell your soul to make it in the arts. I wonder how much mine’s worth." is one of the most badass things I've heard all day
Movies Under The Surface no not really i think the movie is amazing but i wouldnt watch it again just because it made me so nervous and anxious. It gave me whiplash kinda haha
i think that what the movie is trying to say, is that to achieve greatness you'll probably lose more than you're willing to and that you have to live with the choices you make, either going for self-destructive passion and ambition or just letting it go, kinda. I think that the movie leans more towards doing whatever it takes to achieve greatness but the sacrifice might be as big or bigger than success.
Whiplash is pretty accurate to music teachers. All my music teachers had little patience and would flip out. Straight up telling people not to go to college, not to play today, etc. Whiplash is incredibly well done and while dramatic, VERY accurate to being someone trying to achieve in music.
As a comedian... Hell as a creative & a man in an unrelenting pursuit of a dream; sacrifice is necessary to be great. Is this level shown in the film the only route? Not at all. Is it self-destructive? Absolutely. However, it's this compulsion, addiction & pure passion that is needed to be great. Cast aside the toxicity from the movie & just look at Andrew at his root. It's just a kid who wants to be a great drummer & he's willing to throw everything to the wayside to achieve that goal. Some may say it's far to extreme & he's ruining his life... But I think different. I think him casting everything aside for drumming is his version of peace, at least that's my opinion.
I’m training as an actor and so far I’ve never come across a situation as a career where I’ve had to sell my soul to the devil. None that I can think of anyway.
@@mfbandit7930 If everybody is "great"...then nobody is "great". Not everybody wants to be a shell of a human being with some "great" tag pasted on it.
It's a common theme in music, the relationship between success/prowess and selling your soul to the devil. It's been joked about/alluded to with artists like Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, Tenacious D songs, etc To achieve that level of stratospheric success is basically separating yourself from the rest of humanity. I think this analysis of the film is very insightful, and I think it's spot on
The movie isn't telling whether greatness isn't worth it or not. It just simply shows what greatness is, a unfiltered realistic and cinematic display of greatness and everything that leads to it, and then it leaves us to decide whether it's the path we want to take. Anyone can become great, it's just that the cost is something most people won't want to pay for.
Just by making the distinction between a masterpiece and an amazing film, you underscore just how much of a struggle it is to cross the valley between the two. Words like “classic” and “great” are far too often used in our culture when they should be reserved for rare moments of human ingenuity.
glad you appreciated that distinction! So many people think I'm hating on this film because I don't think its a masterpiece, even though I think its an amazing film, a great one and one of my favorites!
I love how critics like Fletcher never get behind the kit to show us how it's REALLY done. I had a drum teacher like that. As a matter of fact, she was the only drum instructor I ever had. It was because of her that I came to believe that those that can't play teach, and those that can't teach do. I'm sure that this isn't always the case, but it seemed to be true for me. Never let a teacher tell you how to do something if that can't actually do it themselves.
That's what's wrong with our society: we've got morons that will repeat the same old techniques and methods again and again without even understanding the techniques themselves. We need to teach people how to do things practically first so they can understand what's going on, only then will they really learn. But I guess it's easier to hire people to regurgitate the same old teachings again and again without them ever trying to explain them.
Yeah but Fletcher never said that he could do the things he was ordering people to do. The whole point of his teaching style was to push people beyond their limits to test their tenacity. It wasn’t about if his students could actually do what he was demanding; He’s aware that his demands were outrageous, it was how they reacted to their failure. That was his whole method of finding greatness. He weeds out the people who not only fail, but fail and QUIT. That’s exactly why he hates the words ‘good job’. He understands that ‘good’ doesn’t breed greatness; resilience to failure breeds greatness.
Whiplash is only remembered for one thing in the perspective of jazz musicians: The pain of double time swing tunes and how incredibly hard they can be
In my opinion; the movie is a parable, while it is pushed to extremes for the sake of tension and entertainment, the movie does convey the price of success. And how sometimes even your dreams aren’t worth perusing. (Or are worth it) depending on how you interpret the ending of the movie (which is what makes this a masterpiece in my mind) 🤷♂️
Whiplash reminds me of the The Black Swan because they have the same intensity of emotions and ambiance of the atmosphere of the film. You explained your thoughts very well on this one. Your channel is gold! You earned my sub and support.
This review is uninteresting because it is premised on a few unfounded/uninteresting assumptions: 1) the film is didactic and is trying to teach the audience a normative lesson, 2) films are a direct reflection of their makers' beliefs, 3) film makers shouldn't make films with normative messages they don't believe in. The worst of these is (1). Film, and art more broadly, isn't necessarily didactic. Film's don't have clear, unambiguous, identifiable goals or lessons they are trying to teach audiences. They are open to audience interpretation - it is up to us, the viewers, to take away (or not) certain lessons from the films. Whiplash is a study and analysis of the pursuit of greatness, of what happens when you mix ambition, vanity, and talent. It isn't trying to tell the audience "hey you should dump your lame girlfriend and find a new father figure if you want to be somebody." Rather, it is showing us the lengths that the protagonist goes to to make his dream a reality. It's ultimately ambiguous and up to the audience to decide if all the sacrifices are worth it. The best art doesn't beat its audience over the head with a lesson, but rather provides its audience with a provocation to further thought and introspection.
I'm not making any of the assumptions you're stating. I never said the film was didactic or trying to teach a lesson (personally I don't think it is, as I say at 7:46), I also never say films are a direct reflection of their filmmakers beliefs (I believe that is true for some films, not all), and I never said filmmakers shouldn't make films with messages they don't believe (Whiplash does this, and I think Whiplash is an excellent film!). What I did say is that I think it is interesting that Chazelle made a highly personal film about something he does not believe. And then I looked into this. All the other stuff you are talking about, I don't know where you are getting it from, but its not what I am doing in this video. Even so, I appreciate your comments and thanks for watching!
I like how damien chazelle's movies teach us that an ending of something cant be 100% good or 100% as we expected. In whiplash andrew sort of lost his "consciousness" because he wanted to be the best musician. In la la land mia got what she wants wich is to be an actress but she couldnt be with sebastian anymore.
The director has actually explained in interviews that when he was a musician he had an instructor like Fletcher, and that he wasn't sure if it had helped or hindered his musical development.
Man, i got the ending a little different you know, i think the whole movie taught us the cost of greatness....greatness just doesnot come from crying all day coz someone said you something, it comes from hardwork, determination and pushing yourself out of the limits previously unknown. That table talk was a very important part of the movie, i dont known but i guess many people missed it , they were talking about charlie parker and jo jonas, 'how charlie parker ruined his part, laughed off the stage and jo jonas nearly decapitate him...but a year later he sang the best mf solo the world has ever head'....and andrew ask fletcher that if those training and stuff discouraged the next charlie parker....to which jo jonas answered "THE NEXT CHARLIE WILL NEVER BE DISCOURAGED" and thats what we see in the marvelous final scene....i guess fletcher was pushing him hard to take out the potential that nobody but fletcher saw in andrew. That after ruining the part and getting to his dad for the hug showed us his dad just want mediocrity, his dad could have said " Son go out there show them what you have inside" but instead his dad said " lets go home". andrew turned around just like charlie parker and settled for greatness. his dad looked like that i guess not because he was devasted but because he never knew andrew had so much potential, desire, and talent in him (which we can see in that family dinner scene). And fletcher was pushing andrew like jo jonas pushing charlie parker. All the greatest people we know in the world, have suffered some kind of abuse, discouragement, failure, taunt of people and what not but they never back down and they worked hard showed the world which was unknown and never seen. Examples- Ronaldo, Dani Alves, Bill Gates,Steve Jobs, Mark Zukerberg, Albert Einstein, etc . GREATNESS NEVER COMES FROM RUNNING AWAY BUT FACING YOUR FEARS. Please rectify me if u think i was wrong somewhere...thank you for reading
I pretty much agree with this. In the script, it is much more obvious that Andrew abandons his dad for Fletcher, but in the film they toned it down, making it more nuanced and allowing the viewer to interpret the moment. I think that was a smart move.
I've seen people die for music, I've seen people ruin relationships and throw their lives away just for the dream of being a musician and a star. Bleeding hands from too hard of practice is all too real. Ending the relationship made me so unbelievably angry though, there's literally no logic to why he did that. Sure, he's more closely tied to fletcher, but a real person would realize that you need both sides, good and bad. It doesn't come off as too determined and dedicated, it feels illogical and misappropriated to me. Absolutely splendid analysis though. You've earned yourself a fan with this one
Movies Under The Surface I know why he gives up his girlfriend. When you have a second body to account for when achieving greatness, it’s too much stress. Simply put. It’s not that he dislikes her, but he’s stopping it before it consumes him. He wants to be one of the greats, and that relies on him having absolute control over his destiny, not split between his and her destiny.
@@BIGBIRD208 This is not true with the right person. I'm not saying Nicole was the right person, but Andrew didn't even give her a chance to be that person.
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface The writers were making Andrew increasingly conceited and arrogant due to his earned position. So his arrogance ruins his relationship and it makes him lose his spot in the band. This teaches him a life lesson about humility. It's a mini-redemption arc. We see him try to come to terms with Nicole but he fails, showing us there are consequences for your actions.
NawtNCosmic I think it was more about symbolizing how in order to conquer the dark side in all of us and mature, you need a passion and you need to be willing to let those you love go, as well as sacrificing yourself which he did through suffering in practice and through the devil (fletcher) himself
Goddamn right. Why is everyone acting so sensitive about this movie, as if Fletcher really is the devil? He doesn't 'torture' Miles as much as he pushes and pushes and pushes. Because he knows he'll either break like everyone else who wasn't good enough... or he'll achieve what he has at the movie's end.
Not all stories are meant to have a neat message. Some filmmakers leave it open to interpretation so that you can find multiple meanings in a film. In fact, I think that’s a hallmark of a good movie. This is a character study as well as a meditation on the price of greatness and perfectionism. It only gets muddled when Teller’s character’s mind is muddled by the manipulations of Simmons. The film takes you on his emotional journey and uses stylistic editing, camerawork and sound to keep you in his headspace. This movie is flawless IMO (I always think of it as “Black Swan for boys” and in some ways I think it’s a better movie than that one, though I love both). If Whiplash had some tacky message at the end, or god forbid if JK Simmons had turned around and become a nice guy, it would have ruined the movie. Also, if you’ve heard of a “cautionary tale”, it’s one of the oldest storytelling conventions and this film can be clearly read as a cautionary tale showing the dangers of seeking artistic greatness at all cost.
Back when I was in 10th grade, I was in the wrestling class. I was only approximately 120 Ibs at the time and underweight. One day early in the season, my collarbone and ribcage became misaligned. My arms horizontal movement became restricted due to the pain. I asked everyone; my coach, my teachers, my parents to help me see a Chiropractor. No one took me seriously. Because of this injury which I was forced to wrestle with or fail the class, I never won a single match. I refuse to see this movie because I am afraid of reliving my own trauma. It’s because of this trauma I fail to understand how so many people including Chris Stuckmann can praise a work like this, and because I fail to understand I feel weak, incompetent, and outcast. Is it okay to feel deathly afraid of a film such as this? Achieving greatness is never worth losing yourself in the process.
Andrew was passionate and obsessed about playing drums. And you were forced to do something you had no interests in. Of course it’s normal to have this feeling for this movie, because It makes you remind of trauma that affected your personality. I hope you’re doing well now! Wishing you all the best
Your channel is absolutely phenomenal. It takes one step beyond the levels of other analysis video out there. I wish you the utmost best for the growth of your channel.
This is a really good review. So many people get caught up in profoundifying abusive people. The search of greatness is also a lie, not about you making great art but more about making great you.
As per my understanding of musician.. Nothing guarantees success. A large number of well known musician are not very competent these days. The way andrew was pursuing music will make you a machine.. but the most important thing in music is the human element in it. I mean suppose you learn to play in time and excel the technique by practicing day and night... Now when it will come to compose or actually create something.. you need to know what resonates with general public. I hope you're getting my point. It makes sense in the movie because its jazz music.. and jazz music is very difficult, no matter which instrument you play.. and i think that is the reason that old classical jazz is dying. Because it doesn't resonate with masses. You cannot become a successful musician just by practicing day and night... Yes.. its needed to achieve the technique but i think your goal should be to unleash your style and thn work towards it
You know i have experienced this... sometimes even to destroy devil in ourselves we need to hit bottom even more below than current bottom and the fastest way is to breakourself by someone devilish figure or a 2nd father figure just like in this movie..
I think you may be right about fletcher being the devil I just never thought of it but it makes sense . Just how the devil controls all the music there is a scene in a film called “Under The Silver Lake” where the main character has a conversation with the devil about music and how he controls it and will ultimately decide who is successful in music .
I loved this film for how raw and non-Hollywoodesque it was. Maybe that's why I don't like La La Land. This film really doesn't feel ridiculous or extreme at all to me. I like your point of view and you explaining it though - I think you should definitely look into incorporating other footage like Chazelle's interviews or other examples that would strengthen your argument. It felt a bit like I was listening to an opinion or review. PS: I do think Whiplash is a masterpiece.
thanks for your comments. I listen to director commentaries and interviews, but when it comes to discussing the film, I like to focus on the film itself. At the end of the day, it is what's on screen that matters, not what the director intended to be on screen. That's my opinion at least.
Personally, I came to a very different conclusion. The director did not believe in the message of 'giving oneself away to the devil', and it is easy to see his opinion during the film. Chazelle shows the pain that Andrew goes through, the people he hurts, and his descent into madness. This gives the message that achieving greatness is painful and makes the audience wonder whether or not it is truly worth it. In my own opinion, I find the film far more nuanced than the idea of giving one's soul to the devil to achieve greatness. I find that in order to be amazing, one has to put in an immense amount of work, pain, and effort. They may need to be pushed. I find that although Fletcher's methods are extreme, he is actually doing Andrew a service by pushing him to his limit. He knows Andrew wants to be great and chances are he won't get there by himself.
My stepdad was exactly like this tyrant of a man. I cried with anger watching this movie. and so Less than 1% of humans ever reach this "GREATNESS" ,the odds are against you even at this level of intensity.ypu also need luck.
Are you a musician? Do you know anything about the history and context behind this movie and what was really going on under the surface how that kid's journey almost exactly mirrored what bird went through on his way to become the greatest jazz musician of all time in most peoples opinion? I'm sorry too but you got most of this wrong. That brightly lit teachers room as you put it, looked pale and dull compared to warm and vibrant but dark jazzy vibe of the better room. You're right about them all being assholes, that's realistic for most industries but actually in the music industry most people just want to help each other. That's the most unrealistic part of this movie is how hard and how fast he pushes them when in reality there would be no musical gain from that, only psychological, the equivalent of hell week for the Navy SEALs. And make no mistake these guys are training to become musical Navy SEALs. When he walks away from his dad at the end that's not him walking away from the right side to join the Darkside, that's the moment he finally got it. He chose to walk away from the comfort of home and stand up for himself and show that asshole teacher that he was right and that he was worthy, and he did a hell of a job. My performers literally gave me goosebumps the entire time and damn near brought a tear to my eye at the end and I was watching it alone and just about stood up and started clapping. Maybe, leave interpreting is a pursuit of musical greatness of to people who have either been through that pursuit or are currently in that pursuit. Because just about everything you say in this video drives people like myself, currently pursuing a Masters degree in Berkelee College of music, absolutely insane hahaha. You're right about Fletcher representing the devil for sure, but nobody joins the devil. They defeat him. And that's what this is about, defeating your demons to move on. You even used the scene where he broke up with his girlfriend to support that theory, and the whole point of that scene was to show that he wa making a mistake. And that is confirmed as soon as she starts talking about how it would be possible or more like asking him why it would be impossible even if she was supportive of him. Nobody achieve greatness alone, he needed that support and he turned it down at the time he needed it the most. And when he called back to try to fix his mistake it was too late, lesson learned. Bad example of sacrifice lol. This is about defeating your demons no matter how hard you have to fight to achieve what you know you deserve, where do that's great news or just basic happiness. Not joining the Darkside hahaha
As a wanna be sucessfull digital artist you dont have to sell your soul you just need to work really hard practice day in and day out, I didnt have to leave my girlfriend instead she has been my greatest support and with 3 years of everything going wrong I finally see things getting better. Just work hard and keep focus on your goals you dont need to sell your soul to the devil, you just need to beat the demons inside of you and beleive you can be great
you're right art is subjective, but saying he's the devil is similar to saying masculinity is toxic; of course not saying it isn't innocent. this film isn't about giving up everything to be great for selfish reasons, implying he's gaining something of value or power to sell his soul to the devil. it's purely individual with what he gains and is the principle of this films message; the stakes to be truly defined, "the greatest" and self fulfilment. i only offer my opinion because I've had the same journey, i felt like i wasn't man enough growing up, so to prove myself and finally answer my self doubt if i was man enough i joined the rangers. i ended up passing, but everything i heard to be selected was seen so clearly in this movie. if you are great or in my case if i can make the cut to be selected or simply be man enough? i kept hearing to be a man or be a ranger you just are, and that's what i even heard why some of the greats were just defined as the greats in their field like jimmy hendrix or bruce lee; they just "are." that's why i asked myself what does that mean? what does that pertain or require to just be. i worked out so much for hours for years through highschool and shorty afterwards, everything i did was ranger related or how would it help me. that's why if i wanted to rest, nope, i wanted to hangout with friends and blow off a night, no. if i was scared to talk to a girl, to speak up, to stand up for what i believed in, nope. nope was always the response to every time i could have opted out, because like Lee or hendrix they were great and just did; which ever field they were working to mastering over. That's why when seeing this film and everything the main character did to be great of course to the rational would say it's not worth it or why do it? yet that's the very point, their is no reason to master any of those skills those past greats did, but they just did because they wanted to be that very best. that's why to the rational it seems crazy, but if you really want something and i mean really want something you'll do anything; of course you can say that proves the idea of selling your soul to the devil,.but i say no because if you ever really wanted to achieve something so bad it hurts then this movie makes sense to you. So when fletcher compares the main character to the other past great drummers he has a point those greats because they just were great, so if you want to be on the same level as the majority defined greats then it's going to require more than just i tried my best. it's a simple binary scenario it's one or zero. Yes or no. Or just if you have it or you don't. that's why regardless of your feelings or like in my boat if was a man or if was a ranger i would just be a ranger and all my effort would haven't have been for loss. or for jimmy hendrix or bruce lee during their time of competing they just would be great. if they truly were great regardless of their feelings the majority would just all universally agree that they were great. that's why when watching this movie if you ever wanted to achieve the highest degree of whatever goal you have for yourself or understand what that fulfillment means; then you see the journey and you relate with the film and reminisce.
I played the drums as a kid, and it was exactly like in the movie (minus the physical abuse). My teacher would yell, throw stuff and put people down in front of everyone.
I love this analysis and channel. It is an amazing commentary that perfectly captures my interpretation of the message of the film, even though I never looked at it through the devil-motif. I think what you talk about as the theme of the movie -- to succeed, one must sacrifice everything -- could be applied to every endeavor. Do you agree, or do you think that theme only applies to music and art, like you suggested that Chazelle himself might have gotten here this way? In any case, I love the video and this is definitely one of my favorite channels now.
I think it applies to more than music and art, but not to everything. It applies to anything that involves being the best in the world, peak performance, hold nothing back, those sorts of things. But not all success requires those things.
Fletcher's methodology is comparable to a scientist in a lab, performing painful experiments on numerous test subjects without a care, just so he can find that one success and gain fame for his discovery. The next Charlie Parker might be out there, and he might need a specific type of abuse and debasement in order to be "pushed" to get to some nebulously defined level, but what are the odds that he finds this person? Fairly low and he could easily break a Charlie Parker that could have been great via a different method. He admits in the bar he never found one (at least prior to Andrew in the end scene) so basically all the suffering he's caused had no gain up to that point, even if you think the gain(of getting Charliev2) is worth it. The other drummers and other band members suffer, and yet no reward for all this suffering. He is shown to not care personally for any of the members in the band, not giving a care for Andrew for his accident, for the kid who killed himself, or anybody he "broke" and turned away from music. It's all for ego, getting the credit for creating the next great since he himself can't live up to his own standard and being the next Charlie himself. Be wary around people who agree with Fletcher unironically, they are basically admitting that they are fine with hurting anyone for a selfish obsession, like the scientist. People say it could have been worth it to Andrew...but Andrew was not the only person in the film.
This movie bothered me at first. If the message was to make it at all costs, treating people like crap to be the "best". Then being the "best" means to be a failure at being human. It's the kind of message that is driving kids to suicide, just look at the high schools in Palo Alto as an example. But this take gives me a different perspective to see the symbolism (deal with the devil). Maybe it's just a representation of what it takes to be the best in the entertainment industry. Well done.
thanks so much for your comment. I agree with what you said as well, and more to your point, suicide is a dynamic they look at in this film. Its a controversial film, no doubt about it!
It's interesting that at the end Andrew said he'd cue Fletcher - but I can't find it. Can't poignantly explain why that is, but just an interesting note.
Andrew is telling the band player next to him that he'll cue him into joining, since Andrew started without Fletcher and Fletcher isn't conducting them
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface @Movies Under The Surface At the beginning? He looks to the bass player, "I'll cue you in! Caravan!.....Three, four!" But at 00:34 (on the Whiplash Finale (Caravan) (Part 2) | Whiplash (2014) |1080p HD) Fletcher asks: "Andrew, what're you doing, man?!" said he'd cue Fletcher, but almost right after that audio wobble of Andrew powering through the symbals, Fletch takes over again. Sort of makes sense though, because even after the confident walk back onto the stage, standing up to Fletcher (mouthing f-u, the symbal SLAP!) Andrew still looks to him for approval. If Andrew is still looking for approval from the devil. To me then, that liiitle bit of confidence that he needed to cue Fletch in wasn't there. Even with the best muthafukkin solo the world has ever heard. (There's the poignancy I was looking for, haha!) Great video regardless, fellow Gabe 😁
I think you have an overly cynical view of the movie. It’s not about evil and selling your soul - it’s about going through a crucible, digging deep down finding strength from within, and overcoming obstacles. It’s about sacrifice and perseverance. These are things you need to succeed in a tough, brutal world.
Just because a teacher raises the bar of difficulty to be uncomfortable and dangerous; Does not merit being compared to the devil. -Yes, fletcher lied on multiple occassions and stirred up chaos between the drummers. Yet the jump to him being like the devil is ridiculous. I finished listening to the video. Some of the best teachers I have had.... nearly broke me several times and some did. God being one of them,
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface Valid point. I just really hate to see strong teachers blanket painted as wicked because of unorthodox methods. I look forward to rewatch the movie with this synopsis in mind.
Sometimes I feel that only through the way of Andrew and Fletcher I can be something, someone who knows what is he doing, someone worthy of respect. You said that there are people who achieved greatness without going this way, can you name some of those people?? I would like to see the road not taken.
It’s not a mess, you guys are over exaggerating it. This is how you try to push yourself to the limit, it’s a masterpiece. People are millennials these days, this how you do it and I would t be afraid to publish a movie like this at all.
I really love the way you present whatever your theory is...without ever coming across as brazen or expecting it to be the 'right one' or the 'only' right one...that you often acknowledge there are layers, that there may not BE any layers at all, that other people might see these layers from another perspective...but that this is your personal insight on what the film may be saying, and that insight has some really well rounded interesting views that go far beyond just 'liking it' or 'not liking it'. I love how you celebrate the diversity in those theories and feelings everyone may have. You don't merely just see what is, or is not, a good film, or what makes up a good film....You see the point of WHY people want to achieve what a great film DOES.
Movies Under The Surface you told it was too messy and could have been better well that’s your point of view. I think it’s perfect just like how Andrew plays the drums in the end.
Maybe Chazelle said he didnt condone the extremety of the movie because he didnt want to publicly set such an extreme example of how to be successful. Maybe he believes this is how greatness is, or can be, born.
The movie explains the metaphor of "selling your soul to the devil" in exchange for greatness; having no "soul" and being embodied with "dark energy". The word "devil" symbolizes the career you choose. You are selling your soul to your career, and the price is that you make "soulless" decisions in your life; like breaking up with your girlfriend so that you could fully focus on your growth. The "dark energy" is the spirit of "obsession" and "competitiveness" during the phases of your growth.
i dont know about fletcher being "the devil", your interpretation of his rehearsal room are fiery orange i took it more as a "golden room" of sorts. Since anyone in it is making a statement of being the very best in their institute just by having the right to play there. Or in neiman's case have the potential to go further than what even a normal musican can reach. I can see what you mean by the selling your soul to the devil analogy but it wouldnt be directed towards fletcher, it would just be to drumming itself. Fully immersing himself in his craft. Fletcher and Neiman have a toxic relationship but their goals are synergetic. Fletcher wants to help create a great and Neiman (like all other musicians in his class) wants the chance at becoming great. He discourages and abuses because in his mind, someone with the potential to become great, that honestly wants to dive into the depths of what their craft is would never be discouraged by verbal or physical abuse. Now for most athletes this wouldnt work because the body has limits, even kobe bryan has overworked himself to the point of almost destroying his knees. But musicians and other artists have the advantage of only being held back by their mind, food and water. This allows the possibility of his methodology working. thats my take on it but wtf do i know
as another commenter mentioned (I wish I would've noticed it, I definitely would've put it in my video) the band Fletcher is playing piano with is named the Zak FAUST Quartet
The nicole point doesnt add up. Andrew tries to reconnect with her towards the end. His family is clearly shown to not be as supportive to Andrew, and the point abt the dad is, l think, meant to contrast Andrew's creative ambition as opposed to his. Its not abt the devil, as a physical master of destruction, its abt the extent people are willing to go to achieve greatness. Im sorry, this video felt pointless from the start.
As another commenter pointed out, the band Fletcher plays with at the bar literally has Faust in its title (5:24 above). But even so, you are welcome to your opinion, which I actually think isn't too different from my own, only worded differently ("meant to contrast Andrew's creative ambition as opposed to his own", "not about the devil, as a physical master of destruction", "the extent people are willing to go to achieve greatness": I agree with all of this),
READ FOR TRUTH! - You will learn to love pain, and you will torture yourself if you want to become your version of good. You will never be good enough for yourself, and trust me it doesnt matter what others think. It may not be worth it, it may be obsessive, and you may come out as more of a machine than a human. You will strip yourself from your values. But machines are great. You will be known all throughout your world, you will be appreciated, but you may never be happy until you retire. Nobody that is real does their passion for attention. You want to be the best and better than yourself. The path to obsession is a prideful one but it will ruin you.
I can tell by the guys voice that made this video that he could never survive in this situation and would break. Your Devil motif is fun and all but I'll clue you in on one thing. The relationship with his father. His father is a coddler, somewhat weak and settles easily. It's established right from the start when they're at the movies. His father apologizes to someone that smacks into him with their popcorn even though he's completely slumped forward in his seat and as far from being his fault as possible. It's reiterated when he says his father is a writer and after a couple of questions about it ends up with his father wishing he was but in reality is a writing teacher at a shitty high school. They're establishing why he's been searching for this kind of influence to push him to where he needs to go. While most people would look at his character as being a dick for breaking up with the girl early on, it's actually a good thing because everything he said would happen always happens in a relationship with someone on the rise in a field like music. I can attest to that from experience. You will eventually come to that fork in the road and asked to make a choice because it is impossible to juggle both during that period, especially if you love the person. You're always torn and can never be great at either because of it.
You can tell a lot about people just by their tone of voice. It's quite amazing. Maybe you should go work for the govt or something. As to everything else you wrote, I completely agree. And I allude to the dynamic you are talking about at 3:55 and even more specifically at 5:04. It is a powerful aspect of the film and one of the most interesting parts of it, but it isn't the film's main dynamic (Andrew and Fletcher's relationship is), which is why I didn't focus on it in this video. Another video could definitely be made on that topic though!
This devil analogy is pretty misguided. Here's why. All this movie is about is a guy like Fletcher who is extremely passionate about music, and will stop at nothing to create the next best drummer of all times. Fletcher is aware that the only way to make someone great is to PUSH them to their limits, because telling someone words like 'good job' is the best way to jeopardise someone's chances of becoming great. Fletcher sifts through people all his career until he finally finds the right candidate that won't be discouraged by his harsh behaviour, and instead that candidate will use that harsh 'whiplash' as motivation. That person is Andrew. Andrew shows huge determination to be the best there is and will stop at nothing to achieve that, even if it means leaving behind everything a human might value. Fletcher knows that about Andrew from the start, and starts building Andrew up. You can see at the end where it might look like Andrew has ruined Fletcher's career, and Fletcher is trying to sabotage Andrew, but this is not quite the case. Fletcher psychologically manipulates Andrew to get angry just before the show, and probably indeed resents him to some extent. However, Andrew uses that psychological manipulation to give the best drum solo New York might ever see. That makes Fletcher happy, who suddenly becomes supportive of Andrew again because Fletcher's only goal is becoming a reality - Fletcher has created the next Charlie Parker. I.e. the world's greatest drummer
As another commenter already stated, the band Fletcher is playing in at the Jazz club literally has the name 'Faust' in it. If you don't know what Faust is, look it up
I disagree that Flatcher represents devil. He spotted potential in Andrew immediately (first scene) but he knew the only way to achieve true greatness, which motivation Andrew has, is by not telling "good job". They are a perfect match. I believe if you ask Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt to name a movie they mostly relate to, they'll point to Whiplash.
Is there a reason why you cite Phelps and Bolt specifically? Phelps I can probably see, but from what I've seen and heard, Bolt seems like a completely different person than what is shown in this film.
Both of them strived for greatness in fields they were passionate about. Both of them sacrifice a social/private life to make history, become legends, live a dream. From what I've heard with my own ears said by top notch people in the fields they embrace, all of them emphasize passion and absolute dedication under the built iceberg's around them that we see today. Andrew never wanted to be just a successful musician, he wanted greatness and has character needed for it, just like Phelps and Bolt. The trick is to enjoy it to the core, to be meaning of life. Just like Jeremy Renners character in Hurt Locker. Fletcher dedicated his life to the craft, waiting for that one artistic soulmate to drive him to the moon with all the "tools" he believed are necessary. He made mistake, wrong judgment with few others before, pushing them for what they were not meant for. He kind of lost his belief that "chosen one" will ever appear at his class. Hope sparked again when he heard and saw Andrew, so, he subtly called him for an adventure. And after Andrew accepted, Fletcher put him to the test of endurance and power of will, to see what's his truly made of. You make or break. They are both beyond the limits dedicated persons in what they are passionate about. They needed each other and they both felt it in their guts from the beginning till the very end. Only expressing it in their own, extreme and cinematic way. In my eyes, Fletcher is a gift considering what Andrew wanted and needed, not a devil. A devil, as both the girl and Andrew figured out, was her and everyone else who was potential distraction to exceptional relationship Andrew and Fletcher has in this "buddy love" story.
@@DarjanRS I didn't mean Fletcher was the devil from Andrew's perspective. Yes from Andrew's perspective Fletcher may have been a gift and Nicole a devil (a little harsh on Nicole but I get what you are saying), but I wasn't speaking from Andrew's perspective. Looking at things not from Andrew's perspective, I find very strong evidence that Fletcher is a devil character and I can't imagine anyone interpreting Nicole as the devil.
yes. as someone else mentioned, the band Fletcher plays with at the bar is the Zak FAUST Quartet. I definitely would've mentioned that in my video had I noticed it!
This assessment is wrong. Why the devil? This movie is not about selling your soul to the devil. That is ridiculous. It's about choice and what it takes to be elite. There are only so many hours in a day. You can choose to spend it with a girlfriend, hang out with your buddies, party, or practice. If you subscribe to the analysis in this video you will only ever be average at best. Unless you just have extraordinary talent that comes naturally. And even then I wouldn't bet money on you. This is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact!
I mean, they literally reference Faust in relation to Fletcher. I missed it when making this video but it is in there. Not sure how much more evidence you need than that
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface Interesting! I see your point if you're looking at it as a person who wants to lead an ordinary life. However, Andrew did not meet Fletcher at the crossroads and was not offered great success in exchange for his soul. But still, you make an excellent point. Is Whiplash a lesson in what it takes to be great, or a cautionary tale of what you have to exchange to be great? There is a famous Twilight Zone about a pool shark who wants to be the best, and he gets a game with the greatest pool player of all time (side note: the legendary pool player has been called up from hell/purgatory to play this match). In the end, the wannabe only needs to make one easy shot to be the greatest. The Legend warns him by asking, "are you sure you want to be the greatest because if you make this shot, you will dethrone me." The pool shark scoffs accusing the legend of trying to throw him off. He makes the shot, and only afterward does he learn that he has to take the place of the legend in hell and defend his crown forever. He has no family, no fun, no future, just the obligation to remain the greatest. So greatness can be an unwitting curse. I've watched Whiplash many times, but next time I will be mindful of your perspective. Well done. Thank you.
Regarding Fletcher being a devil character: the band Fletcher plays piano with is literally named Zak Faust Quartet (5:26). I know art is subjective, but to me this Faust reference is as definitive as it gets, and I wish I had noticed it when making this video. Thank you to the commenter who pointed it out.
All that being said, the art director on this film is Zak Faust, so this reference could be to him and not the classic character. But regardless, there's no way these filmmakers don't know who Faust is, so even if they didn't mean to reference him, they knew what they were doing putting the name in there.
You should make a comparison between this movie and soul
This isn't a film about how you SHOULD succeed, it's how you DO succeed. It's pretty rare to find a successful artist who has an intact life. This film is about what happens majority of the time.
Agree!
The film isn’t preachy it leaves you to decide if all of this was worth it or not
That's true.
exactly!
I think it is worth it. The meaning behind the movie in my opinion, is that you need to sacrifice yourself and let those you love go, in order to harness your shadow. This would matchup with fletcher’s portrayal as the devil. He’s not selling his soul precisely, he’s conquered him and can use his power (his drumming ability which fletcher helped unlock)
@@nathanbengels4922 I really like your take on it!
@@nathanbengels4922 good luck with your mental health bro, i hope you dont end up like Sean...
I left the music industry for similar reasons, but then I jumped to film making... It certainly feels like you have to sell your soul to make it in the arts. I wonder how much mine’s worth.
You just gotta keep going! Find your voice and hopefully others will find it too
Yeah which begs the question, is it worth it? Especially when you have so many scumbags that oversee it all. But you can do it outside of all the shit so do it your own way
@@Thisisit1792 That's a good question however I think their are many avenues to creating art without resorting to sacrificing everything like this movie or others would have you believe. You dont have to give up so much of who you are to achieve your dreams. Only pushing yourself to become better and better is the straight way to go.
"It certainly feels like you have to sell your soul to make it in the arts. I wonder how much mine’s worth." is one of the most badass things I've heard all day
@@rufusTfirefly same
Whiplash have me so much anxiety while watching it
in a good way?
Movies Under The Surface no not really i think the movie is amazing but i wouldnt watch it again just because it made me so nervous and anxious. It gave me whiplash kinda haha
I think the whole movie is about “If you really want to do something.. nothing can stop you from doing it.. you can never truly be discouraged”
The writer and director has argued against that
There is famous writer named Charles buwoski who had a similar philosophy..
even though this is completely and utterly true, this film would be a terrible representation of it.
i think that what the movie is trying to say, is that to achieve greatness you'll probably lose more than you're willing to and that you have to live with the choices you make, either going for self-destructive passion and ambition or just letting it go, kinda. I think that the movie leans more towards doing whatever it takes to achieve greatness but the sacrifice might be as big or bigger than success.
So basically achieving "greatness" is a pyrrhic victory kind of situation.
Whiplash is pretty accurate to music teachers. All my music teachers had little patience and would flip out. Straight up telling people not to go to college, not to play today, etc. Whiplash is incredibly well done and while dramatic, VERY accurate to being someone trying to achieve in music.
If someone flips out over the smallest mistake, they're not a teacher, just a douchebag who got lucky.
As a comedian... Hell as a creative & a man in an unrelenting pursuit of a dream; sacrifice is necessary to be great. Is this level shown in the film the only route? Not at all. Is it self-destructive? Absolutely. However, it's this compulsion, addiction & pure passion that is needed to be great. Cast aside the toxicity from the movie & just look at Andrew at his root. It's just a kid who wants to be a great drummer & he's willing to throw everything to the wayside to achieve that goal. Some may say it's far to extreme & he's ruining his life... But I think different. I think him casting everything aside for drumming is his version of peace, at least that's my opinion.
yeah but for a lot of people that make it to the top, the top is very lonely.
@@marc-andrew617 thats why most people arent great. It takes a very specific kind of person to sacrifice everything for a craft
I’m training as an actor and so far I’ve never come across a situation as a career where I’ve had to sell my soul to the devil. None that I can think of anyway.
Nice.
@@mfbandit7930 If everybody is "great"...then nobody is "great". Not everybody wants to be a shell of a human being with some "great" tag pasted on it.
It's a common theme in music, the relationship between success/prowess and selling your soul to the devil. It's been joked about/alluded to with artists like Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, Tenacious D songs, etc To achieve that level of stratospheric success is basically separating yourself from the rest of humanity. I think this analysis of the film is very insightful, and I think it's spot on
The movie isn't telling whether greatness isn't worth it or not. It just simply shows what greatness is, a unfiltered realistic and cinematic display of greatness and everything that leads to it, and then it leaves us to decide whether it's the path we want to take. Anyone can become great, it's just that the cost is something most people won't want to pay for.
Just by making the distinction between a masterpiece and an amazing film, you underscore just how much of a struggle it is to cross the valley between the two. Words like “classic” and “great” are far too often used in our culture when they should be reserved for rare moments of human ingenuity.
glad you appreciated that distinction! So many people think I'm hating on this film because I don't think its a masterpiece, even though I think its an amazing film, a great one and one of my favorites!
I love how critics like Fletcher never get behind the kit to show us how it's REALLY done. I had a drum teacher like that. As a matter of fact, she was the only drum instructor I ever had. It was because of her that I came to believe that those that can't play teach, and those that can't teach do. I'm sure that this isn't always the case, but it seemed to be true for me. Never let a teacher tell you how to do something if that can't actually do it themselves.
That's what's wrong with our society: we've got morons that will repeat the same old techniques and methods again and again without even understanding the techniques themselves. We need to teach people how to do things practically first so they can understand what's going on, only then will they really learn. But I guess it's easier to hire people to regurgitate the same old teachings again and again without them ever trying to explain them.
Yeah but Fletcher never said that he could do the things he was ordering people to do. The whole point of his teaching style was to push people beyond their limits to test their tenacity. It wasn’t about if his students could actually do what he was demanding; He’s aware that his demands were outrageous, it was how they reacted to their failure. That was his whole method of finding greatness. He weeds out the people who not only fail, but fail and QUIT. That’s exactly why he hates the words ‘good job’. He understands that ‘good’ doesn’t breed greatness; resilience to failure breeds greatness.
Whiplash is only remembered for one thing in the perspective of jazz musicians: The pain of double time swing tunes and how incredibly hard they can be
Exactly man. Trying to play swing at the right tempo on drum is kinda hard, let alone doubling it.
In my opinion; the movie is a parable, while it is pushed to extremes for the sake of tension and entertainment, the movie does convey the price of success. And how sometimes even your dreams aren’t worth perusing. (Or are worth it) depending on how you interpret the ending of the movie (which is what makes this a masterpiece in my mind) 🤷♂️
Whiplash reminds me of the The Black Swan because they have the same intensity of emotions and ambiance of the atmosphere of the film. You explained your thoughts very well on this one. Your channel is gold! You earned my sub and support.
Thanks! I appreciate it and I agree that Whiplash and Black Swan are very similar films.
Aurora Borealis they’re both stories about the Tragedy of Obsession
This review is uninteresting because it is premised on a few unfounded/uninteresting assumptions: 1) the film is didactic and is trying to teach the audience a normative lesson, 2) films are a direct reflection of their makers' beliefs, 3) film makers shouldn't make films with normative messages they don't believe in.
The worst of these is (1). Film, and art more broadly, isn't necessarily didactic. Film's don't have clear, unambiguous, identifiable goals or lessons they are trying to teach audiences. They are open to audience interpretation - it is up to us, the viewers, to take away (or not) certain lessons from the films. Whiplash is a study and analysis of the pursuit of greatness, of what happens when you mix ambition, vanity, and talent. It isn't trying to tell the audience "hey you should dump your lame girlfriend and find a new father figure if you want to be somebody." Rather, it is showing us the lengths that the protagonist goes to to make his dream a reality. It's ultimately ambiguous and up to the audience to decide if all the sacrifices are worth it.
The best art doesn't beat its audience over the head with a lesson, but rather provides its audience with a provocation to further thought and introspection.
I'm not making any of the assumptions you're stating. I never said the film was didactic or trying to teach a lesson (personally I don't think it is, as I say at 7:46), I also never say films are a direct reflection of their filmmakers beliefs (I believe that is true for some films, not all), and I never said filmmakers shouldn't make films with messages they don't believe (Whiplash does this, and I think Whiplash is an excellent film!).
What I did say is that I think it is interesting that Chazelle made a highly personal film about something he does not believe. And then I looked into this. All the other stuff you are talking about, I don't know where you are getting it from, but its not what I am doing in this video.
Even so, I appreciate your comments and thanks for watching!
I like how damien chazelle's movies teach us that an ending of something cant be 100% good or 100% as we expected. In whiplash andrew sort of lost his "consciousness" because he wanted to be the best musician. In la la land mia got what she wants wich is to be an actress but she couldnt be with sebastian anymore.
The director has actually explained in interviews that when he was a musician he had an instructor like Fletcher, and that he wasn't sure if it had helped or hindered his musical development.
Man, i got the ending a little different you know, i think the whole movie taught us the cost of greatness....greatness just doesnot come from crying all day coz someone said you something, it comes from hardwork, determination and pushing yourself out of the limits previously unknown. That table talk was a very important part of the movie, i dont known but i guess many people missed it , they were talking about charlie parker and jo jonas, 'how charlie parker ruined his part, laughed off the stage and jo jonas nearly decapitate him...but a year later he sang the best mf solo the world has ever head'....and andrew ask fletcher that if those training and stuff discouraged the next charlie parker....to which jo jonas answered "THE NEXT CHARLIE WILL NEVER BE DISCOURAGED" and thats what we see in the marvelous final scene....i guess fletcher was pushing him hard to take out the potential that nobody but fletcher saw in andrew. That after ruining the part and getting to his dad for the hug showed us his dad just want mediocrity, his dad could have said " Son go out there show them what you have inside" but instead his dad said " lets go home". andrew turned around just like charlie parker and settled for greatness. his dad looked like that i guess not because he was devasted but because he never knew andrew had so much potential, desire, and talent in him (which we can see in that family dinner scene). And fletcher was pushing andrew like jo jonas pushing charlie parker. All the greatest people we know in the world, have suffered some kind of abuse, discouragement, failure, taunt of people and what not but they never back down and they worked hard showed the world which was unknown and never seen. Examples- Ronaldo, Dani Alves, Bill Gates,Steve Jobs, Mark Zukerberg, Albert Einstein, etc . GREATNESS NEVER COMES FROM RUNNING AWAY BUT FACING YOUR FEARS. Please rectify me if u think i was wrong somewhere...thank you for reading
I pretty much agree with this. In the script, it is much more obvious that Andrew abandons his dad for Fletcher, but in the film they toned it down, making it more nuanced and allowing the viewer to interpret the moment. I think that was a smart move.
The band that Fletcher plays with at the bar is the Zak FAUST Quartet.
whoa, I never noticed that
This is the first time I find a great channel at the beginning of it! *squeals*
thanks!
Right! Exciting.
Jxkdkd@@StarLover479
I've seen people die for music, I've seen people ruin relationships and throw their lives away just for the dream of being a musician and a star. Bleeding hands from too hard of practice is all too real. Ending the relationship made me so unbelievably angry though, there's literally no logic to why he did that. Sure, he's more closely tied to fletcher, but a real person would realize that you need both sides, good and bad. It doesn't come off as too determined and dedicated, it feels illogical and misappropriated to me. Absolutely splendid analysis though. You've earned yourself a fan with this one
Thanks! I appreciate your comments! It's definitely a controversial film, but I think that is a good thing! It challenges people.
Movies Under The Surface I know why he gives up his girlfriend. When you have a second body to account for when achieving greatness, it’s too much stress. Simply put. It’s not that he dislikes her, but he’s stopping it before it consumes him. He wants to be one of the greats, and that relies on him having absolute control over his destiny, not split between his and her destiny.
@@BIGBIRD208 This is not true with the right person. I'm not saying Nicole was the right person, but Andrew didn't even give her a chance to be that person.
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface The writers were making Andrew increasingly conceited and arrogant due to his earned position. So his arrogance ruins his relationship and it makes him lose his spot in the band. This teaches him a life lesson about humility. It's a mini-redemption arc. We see him try to come to terms with Nicole but he fails, showing us there are consequences for your actions.
NawtNCosmic I think it was more about symbolizing how in order to conquer the dark side in all of us and mature, you need a passion and you need to be willing to let those you love go, as well as sacrificing yourself which he did through suffering in practice and through the devil (fletcher) himself
The film is about shedding all of your weaknesses to achieve greatness. The final demon he faces is his self doubt.
How does Fletcher fit into this? How does Nicole? How does Andrew's father?
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface Fletcher is the beast. Nicole is the virgin sacrifice. His father is comfort.
@@juanpedro8164 dam, it's all about perspective isnt it.
@@juanpedro8164 what is a virgin sacrifice?
Goddamn right. Why is everyone acting so sensitive about this movie, as if Fletcher really is the devil? He doesn't 'torture' Miles as much as he pushes and pushes and pushes. Because he knows he'll either break like everyone else who wasn't good enough... or he'll achieve what he has at the movie's end.
Not all stories are meant to have a neat message. Some filmmakers leave it open to interpretation so that you can find multiple meanings in a film. In fact, I think that’s a hallmark of a good movie. This is a character study as well as a meditation on the price of greatness and perfectionism. It only gets muddled when Teller’s character’s mind is muddled by the manipulations of Simmons. The film takes you on his emotional journey and uses stylistic editing, camerawork and sound to keep you in his headspace.
This movie is flawless IMO (I always think of it as “Black Swan for boys” and in some ways I think it’s a better movie than that one, though I love both). If Whiplash had some tacky message at the end, or god forbid if JK Simmons had turned around and become a nice guy, it would have ruined the movie.
Also, if you’ve heard of a “cautionary tale”, it’s one of the oldest storytelling conventions and this film can be clearly read as a cautionary tale showing the dangers of seeking artistic greatness at all cost.
It’s still my favourite film.
as it should be, its a great film!
Back when I was in 10th grade, I was in the wrestling class. I was only approximately 120 Ibs at the time and underweight. One day early in the season, my collarbone and ribcage became misaligned. My arms horizontal movement became restricted due to the pain. I asked everyone; my coach, my teachers, my parents to help me see a Chiropractor. No one took me seriously. Because of this injury which I was forced to wrestle with or fail the class, I never won a single match.
I refuse to see this movie because I am afraid of reliving my own trauma. It’s because of this trauma I fail to understand how so many people including Chris Stuckmann can praise a work like this, and because I fail to understand I feel weak, incompetent, and outcast. Is it okay to feel deathly afraid of a film such as this?
Achieving greatness is never worth losing yourself in the process.
Andrew was passionate and obsessed about playing drums. And you were forced to do something you had no interests in. Of course it’s normal to have this feeling for this movie, because It makes you remind of trauma that affected your personality. I hope you’re doing well now! Wishing you all the best
Your channel is absolutely phenomenal. It takes one step beyond the levels of other analysis video out there. I wish you the utmost best for the growth of your channel.
thanks! I appreciate it!
This is a really good review. So many people get caught up in profoundifying abusive people. The search of greatness is also a lie, not about you making great art but more about making great you.
As per my understanding of musician.. Nothing guarantees success. A large number of well known musician are not very competent these days. The way andrew was pursuing music will make you a machine.. but the most important thing in music is the human element in it. I mean suppose you learn to play in time and excel the technique by practicing day and night... Now when it will come to compose or actually create something.. you need to know what resonates with general public. I hope you're getting my point.
It makes sense in the movie because its jazz music.. and jazz music is very difficult, no matter which instrument you play.. and i think that is the reason that old classical jazz is dying. Because it doesn't resonate with masses.
You cannot become a successful musician just by practicing day and night... Yes.. its needed to achieve the technique but i think your goal should be to unleash your style and thn work towards it
You know i have experienced this... sometimes even to destroy devil in ourselves we need to hit bottom even more below than current bottom and the fastest way is to breakourself by someone devilish figure or a 2nd father figure just like in this movie..
i feel like this channel finna blow up
I hope so!
I agree if he keeps plugging he’ll be lessons from the screenplay
what does "plugging" mean ? @@bascal133
G. C. I meant like chugging along and making videos consistently, I think it was auto correct
Nah man he’s gonna be his own individual.
I think you may be right about fletcher being the devil I just never thought of it but it makes sense . Just how the devil controls all the music there is a scene in a film called “Under The Silver Lake” where the main character has a conversation with the devil about music and how he controls it and will ultimately decide who is successful in music .
Keep it up !! all ur points are really making me think more about this film. I cant wait to see more stuff from you!
thanks! I appreciate it!
I loved this film for how raw and non-Hollywoodesque it was. Maybe that's why I don't like La La Land. This film really doesn't feel ridiculous or extreme at all to me. I like your point of view and you explaining it though - I think you should definitely look into incorporating other footage like Chazelle's interviews or other examples that would strengthen your argument. It felt a bit like I was listening to an opinion or review.
PS: I do think Whiplash is a masterpiece.
thanks for your comments. I listen to director commentaries and interviews, but when it comes to discussing the film, I like to focus on the film itself. At the end of the day, it is what's on screen that matters, not what the director intended to be on screen. That's my opinion at least.
Your joking right, the abuse by fletcher is very extreme and sometimes ridiculous. How exactly was la la land more extreme.
Personally, I came to a very different conclusion. The director did not believe in the message of 'giving oneself away to the devil', and it is easy to see his opinion during the film. Chazelle shows the pain that Andrew goes through, the people he hurts, and his descent into madness. This gives the message that achieving greatness is painful and makes the audience wonder whether or not it is truly worth it.
In my own opinion, I find the film far more nuanced than the idea of giving one's soul to the devil to achieve greatness. I find that in order to be amazing, one has to put in an immense amount of work, pain, and effort. They may need to be pushed. I find that although Fletcher's methods are extreme, he is actually doing Andrew a service by pushing him to his limit. He knows Andrew wants to be great and chances are he won't get there by himself.
My stepdad was exactly like this tyrant of a man. I cried with anger watching this movie. and so Less than 1% of humans ever reach this "GREATNESS" ,the odds are against you even at this level of intensity.ypu also need luck.
You shouldn’t talk to your stepdad forever.
Sometimes you have to leave your loved ones in order to grow and they understand if they truly love you
Are you a musician? Do you know anything about the history and context behind this movie and what was really going on under the surface how that kid's journey almost exactly mirrored what bird went through on his way to become the greatest jazz musician of all time in most peoples opinion? I'm sorry too but you got most of this wrong. That brightly lit teachers room as you put it, looked pale and dull compared to warm and vibrant but dark jazzy vibe of the better room. You're right about them all being assholes, that's realistic for most industries but actually in the music industry most people just want to help each other. That's the most unrealistic part of this movie is how hard and how fast he pushes them when in reality there would be no musical gain from that, only psychological, the equivalent of hell week for the Navy SEALs. And make no mistake these guys are training to become musical Navy SEALs. When he walks away from his dad at the end that's not him walking away from the right side to join the Darkside, that's the moment he finally got it. He chose to walk away from the comfort of home and stand up for himself and show that asshole teacher that he was right and that he was worthy, and he did a hell of a job. My performers literally gave me goosebumps the entire time and damn near brought a tear to my eye at the end and I was watching it alone and just about stood up and started clapping. Maybe, leave interpreting is a pursuit of musical greatness of to people who have either been through that pursuit or are currently in that pursuit. Because just about everything you say in this video drives people like myself, currently pursuing a Masters degree in Berkelee College of music, absolutely insane hahaha. You're right about Fletcher representing the devil for sure, but nobody joins the devil. They defeat him. And that's what this is about, defeating your demons to move on. You even used the scene where he broke up with his girlfriend to support that theory, and the whole point of that scene was to show that he wa making a mistake. And that is confirmed as soon as she starts talking about how it would be possible or more like asking him why it would be impossible even if she was supportive of him. Nobody achieve greatness alone, he needed that support and he turned it down at the time he needed it the most. And when he called back to try to fix his mistake it was too late, lesson learned. Bad example of sacrifice lol. This is about defeating your demons no matter how hard you have to fight to achieve what you know you deserve, where do that's great news or just basic happiness. Not joining the Darkside hahaha
My boss asked me to watch this movie as if he thinks this is a good student teacher relationship. I might need a new job
As a wanna be sucessfull digital artist you dont have to sell your soul you just need to work really hard practice day in and day out, I didnt have to leave my girlfriend instead she has been my greatest support and with 3 years of everything going wrong I finally see things getting better. Just work hard and keep focus on your goals you dont need to sell your soul to the devil, you just need to beat the demons inside of you and beleive you can be great
This film is not about achieving greatness. It’s about obsession and how it effects certain things.
I disagree
@@TooReelFishing who cares lol
It’s about both. They’re two sides of the same coin. Obsession can certainly lead to greatness and those who are great are often labeled as obsessed.
you're right art is subjective, but saying he's the devil is similar to saying masculinity is toxic; of course not saying it isn't innocent. this film isn't about giving up everything to be great for selfish reasons, implying he's gaining something of value or power to sell his soul to the devil. it's purely individual with what he gains and is the principle of this films message; the stakes to be truly defined, "the greatest" and self fulfilment. i only offer my opinion because I've had the same journey, i felt like i wasn't man enough growing up, so to prove myself and finally answer my self doubt if i was man enough i joined the rangers. i ended up passing, but everything i heard to be selected was seen so clearly in this movie. if you are great or in my case if i can make the cut to be selected or simply be man enough? i kept hearing to be a man or be a ranger you just are, and that's what i even heard why some of the greats were just defined as the greats in their field like jimmy hendrix or bruce lee; they just "are." that's why i asked myself what does that mean? what does that pertain or require to just be. i worked out so much for hours for years through highschool and shorty afterwards, everything i did was ranger related or how would it help me. that's why if i wanted to rest, nope, i wanted to hangout with friends and blow off a night, no. if i was scared to talk to a girl, to speak up, to stand up for what i believed in, nope. nope was always the response to every time i could have opted out, because like Lee or hendrix they were great and just did; which ever field they were working to mastering over. That's why when seeing this film and everything the main character did to be great of course to the rational would say it's not worth it or why do it? yet that's the very point, their is no reason to master any of those skills those past greats did, but they just did because they wanted to be that very best. that's why to the rational it seems crazy, but if you really want something and i mean really want something you'll do anything; of course you can say that proves the idea of selling your soul to the devil,.but i say no because if you ever really wanted to achieve something so bad it hurts then this movie makes sense to you. So when fletcher compares the main character to the other past great drummers he has a point those greats because they just were great, so if you want to be on the same level as the majority defined greats then it's going to require more than just i tried my best. it's a simple binary scenario it's one or zero. Yes or no. Or just if you have it or you don't. that's why regardless of your feelings or like in my boat if was a man or if was a ranger i would just be a ranger and all my effort would haven't have been for loss. or for jimmy hendrix or bruce lee during their time of competing they just would be great. if they truly were great regardless of their feelings the majority would just all universally agree that they were great. that's why when watching this movie if you ever wanted to achieve the highest degree of whatever goal you have for yourself or understand what that fulfillment means; then you see the journey and you relate with the film and reminisce.
5:52 my nihilistic answer: that's what we want is validation from someone we feel is powerful or has it together.
I played the drums as a kid, and it was exactly like in the movie (minus the physical abuse). My teacher would yell, throw stuff and put people down in front of everyone.
We get to see this channel before it becomes massive !
its getting there! slowly but surely, although one of my other videos really took off last week. Exciting!
2 years later, the channel is still dead
Heck. Yes. Great channel and analysis!
thanks!
I love this analysis and channel. It is an amazing commentary that perfectly captures my interpretation of the message of the film, even though I never looked at it through the devil-motif. I think what you talk about as the theme of the movie -- to succeed, one must sacrifice everything -- could be applied to every endeavor. Do you agree, or do you think that theme only applies to music and art, like you suggested that Chazelle himself might have gotten here this way? In any case, I love the video and this is definitely one of my favorite channels now.
I think it applies to more than music and art, but not to everything. It applies to anything that involves being the best in the world, peak performance, hold nothing back, those sorts of things. But not all success requires those things.
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface I see.
dude, I simply love your channel
thanks so much!
Win, there is no alternative.
This channel is going to blow up in the next two months. I’m betting he’ll hit 10k subs within that two months.
I sure hope so!
Movies Under The Surface not even two months. Literally one week. Congrats.
Fletcher's methodology is comparable to a scientist in a lab, performing painful experiments on numerous test subjects without a care, just so he can find that one success and gain fame for his discovery. The next Charlie Parker might be out there, and he might need a specific type of abuse and debasement in order to be "pushed" to get to some nebulously defined level, but what are the odds that he finds this person? Fairly low and he could easily break a Charlie Parker that could have been great via a different method.
He admits in the bar he never found one (at least prior to Andrew in the end scene) so basically all the suffering he's caused had no gain up to that point, even if you think the gain(of getting Charliev2) is worth it. The other drummers and other band members suffer, and yet no reward for all this suffering. He is shown to not care personally for any of the members in the band, not giving a care for Andrew for his accident, for the kid who killed himself, or anybody he "broke" and turned away from music. It's all for ego, getting the credit for creating the next great since he himself can't live up to his own standard and being the next Charlie himself.
Be wary around people who agree with Fletcher unironically, they are basically admitting that they are fine with hurting anyone for a selfish obsession, like the scientist. People say it could have been worth it to Andrew...but Andrew was not the only person in the film.
This movie bothered me at first. If the message was to make it at all costs, treating people like crap to be the "best". Then being the "best" means to be a failure at being human. It's the kind of message that is driving kids to suicide, just look at the high schools in Palo Alto as an example. But this take gives me a different perspective to see the symbolism (deal with the devil). Maybe it's just a representation of what it takes to be the best in the entertainment industry. Well done.
thanks so much for your comment. I agree with what you said as well, and more to your point, suicide is a dynamic they look at in this film. Its a controversial film, no doubt about it!
He's the devil because he didnt get the picture of spider so he got washed up for it. That's why he changed his name from j jonah Jameson to fletcher
Great essay - youre gonna be huge :)
thanks! I hope so!
It's interesting that at the end Andrew said he'd cue Fletcher - but I can't find it. Can't poignantly explain why that is, but just an interesting note.
Andrew is telling the band player next to him that he'll cue him into joining, since Andrew started without Fletcher and Fletcher isn't conducting them
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface @Movies Under The Surface At the beginning? He looks to the bass player, "I'll cue you in! Caravan!.....Three, four!"
But at 00:34 (on the Whiplash Finale (Caravan) (Part 2) | Whiplash (2014) |1080p HD) Fletcher asks: "Andrew, what're you doing, man?!" said he'd cue Fletcher, but almost right after that audio wobble of Andrew powering through the symbals, Fletch takes over again.
Sort of makes sense though, because even after the confident walk back onto the stage, standing up to Fletcher (mouthing f-u, the symbal SLAP!) Andrew still looks to him for approval. If Andrew is still looking for approval from the devil. To me then, that liiitle bit of confidence that he needed to cue Fletch in wasn't there. Even with the best muthafukkin solo the world has ever heard. (There's the poignancy I was looking for, haha!)
Great video regardless, fellow Gabe 😁
I think you have an overly cynical view of the movie. It’s not about evil and selling your soul - it’s about going through a crucible, digging deep down finding strength from within, and overcoming obstacles. It’s about sacrifice and perseverance. These are things you need to succeed in a tough, brutal world.
Fantastic video :). Should have more likes
thanks! I appreciate it
Why the fuck is this channel so underrated
Just because a teacher raises the bar of difficulty to be uncomfortable and dangerous; Does not merit being compared to the devil.
-Yes, fletcher lied on multiple occassions and stirred up chaos between the drummers.
Yet the jump to him being like the devil is ridiculous.
I finished listening to the video.
Some of the best teachers I have had.... nearly broke me several times and some did. God being one of them,
as another comment pointed out, the film literally references Faust in regard to Fletcher
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface
Valid point. I just really hate to see strong teachers blanket painted as wicked because of unorthodox methods.
I look forward to rewatch the movie with this synopsis in mind.
@Walter Mullinax I agree that not all harsh/unorthodox teachers are devil figures, but Fletcher as depicted in Whiplash definitely is.
He did the same thing with Babylon
Imo its a masterpiece and one of the best movies ever made with the best ending of all time
"Over sized facial features, these are all Devil features" bruh that’s just the actors face 😂
It's is way they shot his face, using lenses and camera angles to exaggerate his facial features
Sometimes I feel that only through the way of Andrew and Fletcher I can be something, someone who knows what is he doing, someone worthy of respect. You said that there are people who achieved greatness without going this way, can you name some of those people?? I would like to see the road not taken.
best example is Ang Lee. Ben Fountain is another great example. So is Robert Rodriguez. There are lots more.
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface Thanks man, appreciate it✌✌
It’s not a mess, you guys are over exaggerating it. This is how you try to push yourself to the limit, it’s a masterpiece. People are millennials these days, this how you do it and I would t be afraid to publish a movie like this at all.
the writer/director himself has said this movie takes things to a level he doesn't condone, but to each his own
This movie is about getting the best out of yourself, life is not easy but no matter whats in front of you you have to fight it and pass it
Nice channel man, nice video too.
thanks! I appreciate it!
Literally the best film ever
Hm I thought the film whiplash was rather about pleasing the teacher and overpassing him. But I like your thesis a lot!
thanks! we can have different interpretations of films, that's part of the fun!
I really love the way you present whatever your theory is...without ever coming across as brazen or expecting it to be the 'right one' or the 'only' right one...that you often acknowledge there are layers, that there may not BE any layers at all, that other people might see these layers from another perspective...but that this is your personal insight on what the film may be saying, and that insight has some really well rounded interesting views that go far beyond just 'liking it' or 'not liking it'. I love how you celebrate the diversity in those theories and feelings everyone may have. You don't merely just see what is, or is not, a good film, or what makes up a good film....You see the point of WHY people want to achieve what a great film DOES.
Avocado Smash
Thanks for your comment. Everything you said is what I try to do, so Im glad to hear that it is working!
Who is shizail ?
First of all this a masterpiece. Some things are great you can’t deny it. Maybe you don’t find it a masterpiece.
I said I thought it was amazing. Amazing is great!
Movies Under The Surface you told it was too messy and could have been better well that’s your point of view. I think it’s perfect just like how Andrew plays the drums in the end.
@@bhuwanshah3215 of course its my point of view, its my video!
Movies Under The Surface ya ok I got that i usually don’t argue like this but this was really great so I did. All is good.
@@bhuwanshah3215 no worries, glad you enjoyed it! and glad we both think Whiplash is an awesome film!
Hit dislike in the button video until achieve the number of the best; 666, then stop it there and you all find greatness.
Good video!
thanks!
Robert Johnson is a classic real life example of selling his soul to the devil.
Maybe Chazelle said he didnt condone the extremety of the movie because he didnt want to publicly set such an extreme example of how to be successful. Maybe he believes this is how greatness is, or can be, born.
The movie explains the metaphor of "selling your soul to the devil" in exchange for greatness; having no "soul" and being embodied with "dark energy".
The word "devil" symbolizes the career you choose. You are selling your soul to your career, and the price is that you make "soulless" decisions in your life; like breaking up with your girlfriend so that you could fully focus on your growth.
The "dark energy" is the spirit of "obsession" and "competitiveness" during the phases of your growth.
What are other movies used as an example in this video?? Pl name
Boogie Nights, Fight Club, and The Simpsons
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface thanx
I love your channel so much
thanks! that's awesome to hear
i dont know about fletcher being "the devil", your interpretation of his rehearsal room are fiery orange i took it more as a "golden room" of sorts. Since anyone in it is making a statement of being the very best in their institute just by having the right to play there. Or in neiman's case have the potential to go further than what even a normal musican can reach. I can see what you mean by the selling your soul to the devil analogy but it wouldnt be directed towards fletcher, it would just be to drumming itself. Fully immersing himself in his craft. Fletcher and Neiman have a toxic relationship but their goals are synergetic. Fletcher wants to help create a great and Neiman (like all other musicians in his class) wants the chance at becoming great. He discourages and abuses because in his mind, someone with the potential to become great, that honestly wants to dive into the depths of what their craft is would never be discouraged by verbal or physical abuse. Now for most athletes this wouldnt work because the body has limits, even kobe bryan has overworked himself to the point of almost destroying his knees. But musicians and other artists have the advantage of only being held back by their mind, food and water. This allows the possibility of his methodology working.
thats my take on it but wtf do i know
as another commenter mentioned (I wish I would've noticed it, I definitely would've put it in my video) the band Fletcher is playing piano with is named the Zak FAUST Quartet
The nicole point doesnt add up. Andrew tries to reconnect with her towards the end. His family is clearly shown to not be as supportive to Andrew, and the point abt the dad is, l think, meant to contrast Andrew's creative ambition as opposed to his. Its not abt the devil, as a physical master of destruction, its abt the extent people are willing to go to achieve greatness. Im sorry, this video felt pointless from the start.
As another commenter pointed out, the band Fletcher plays with at the bar literally has Faust in its title (5:24 above). But even so, you are welcome to your opinion, which I actually think isn't too different from my own, only worded differently ("meant to contrast Andrew's creative ambition as opposed to his own", "not about the devil, as a physical master of destruction", "the extent people are willing to go to achieve greatness": I agree with all of this),
READ FOR TRUTH! - You will learn to love pain, and you will torture yourself if you want to become your version of good. You will never be good enough for yourself, and trust me it doesnt matter what others think. It may not be worth it, it may be obsessive, and you may come out as more of a machine than a human. You will strip yourself from your values. But machines are great. You will be known all throughout your world, you will be appreciated, but you may never be happy until you retire. Nobody that is real does their passion for attention. You want to be the best and better than yourself. The path to obsession is a prideful one but it will ruin you.
You should work on your meter as a speaker
I am. thank you
I can tell by the guys voice that made this video that he could never survive in this situation and would break. Your Devil motif is fun and all but I'll clue you in on one thing. The relationship with his father. His father is a coddler, somewhat weak and settles easily. It's established right from the start when they're at the movies. His father apologizes to someone that smacks into him with their popcorn even though he's completely slumped forward in his seat and as far from being his fault as possible. It's reiterated when he says his father is a writer and after a couple of questions about it ends up with his father wishing he was but in reality is a writing teacher at a shitty high school. They're establishing why he's been searching for this kind of influence to push him to where he needs to go. While most people would look at his character as being a dick for breaking up with the girl early on, it's actually a good thing because everything he said would happen always happens in a relationship with someone on the rise in a field like music. I can attest to that from experience. You will eventually come to that fork in the road and asked to make a choice because it is impossible to juggle both during that period, especially if you love the person. You're always torn and can never be great at either because of it.
You can tell a lot about people just by their tone of voice. It's quite amazing. Maybe you should go work for the govt or something.
As to everything else you wrote, I completely agree. And I allude to the dynamic you are talking about at 3:55 and even more specifically at 5:04. It is a powerful aspect of the film and one of the most interesting parts of it, but it isn't the film's main dynamic (Andrew and Fletcher's relationship is), which is why I didn't focus on it in this video. Another video could definitely be made on that topic though!
I guess you don't know what Jonathan Swift said about critics.
www.azquotes.com/author/14369-Jonathan_Swift/tag/critics ?
This devil analogy is pretty misguided. Here's why.
All this movie is about is a guy like Fletcher who is extremely passionate about music, and will stop at nothing to create the next best drummer of all times. Fletcher is aware that the only way to make someone great is to PUSH them to their limits, because telling someone words like 'good job' is the best way to jeopardise someone's chances of becoming great. Fletcher sifts through people all his career until he finally finds the right candidate that won't be discouraged by his harsh behaviour, and instead that candidate will use that harsh 'whiplash' as motivation. That person is Andrew. Andrew shows huge determination to be the best there is and will stop at nothing to achieve that, even if it means leaving behind everything a human might value. Fletcher knows that about Andrew from the start, and starts building Andrew up. You can see at the end where it might look like Andrew has ruined Fletcher's career, and Fletcher is trying to sabotage Andrew, but this is not quite the case. Fletcher psychologically manipulates Andrew to get angry just before the show, and probably indeed resents him to some extent. However, Andrew uses that psychological manipulation to give the best drum solo New York might ever see. That makes Fletcher happy, who suddenly becomes supportive of Andrew again because Fletcher's only goal is becoming a reality - Fletcher has created the next Charlie Parker. I.e. the world's greatest drummer
As another commenter already stated, the band Fletcher is playing in at the Jazz club literally has the name 'Faust' in it. If you don't know what Faust is, look it up
What movie is that at 0:35
Boogie Nights
Love this kind of films. Ive seen it so often. Please feel free to share similar films for me to watch
Black Swan is a great companion piece to this film
I DO like jazz...
but not that much lol
do whatever it takes and be that 5%
Hi, my name is Gabe loll
I disagree that Flatcher represents devil. He spotted potential in Andrew immediately (first scene) but he knew the only way to achieve true greatness, which motivation Andrew has, is by not telling "good job". They are a perfect match. I believe if you ask Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt to name a movie they mostly relate to, they'll point to Whiplash.
Is there a reason why you cite Phelps and Bolt specifically? Phelps I can probably see, but from what I've seen and heard, Bolt seems like a completely different person than what is shown in this film.
Both of them strived for greatness in fields they were passionate about. Both of them sacrifice a social/private life to make history, become legends, live a dream. From what I've heard with my own ears said by top notch people in the fields they embrace, all of them emphasize passion and absolute dedication under the built iceberg's around them that we see today. Andrew never wanted to be just a successful musician, he wanted greatness and has character needed for it, just like Phelps and Bolt. The trick is to enjoy it to the core, to be meaning of life. Just like Jeremy Renners character in Hurt Locker.
Fletcher dedicated his life to the craft, waiting for that one artistic soulmate to drive him to the moon with all the "tools" he believed are necessary. He made mistake, wrong judgment with few others before, pushing them for what they were not meant for. He kind of lost his belief that "chosen one" will ever appear at his class. Hope sparked again when he heard and saw Andrew, so, he subtly called him for an adventure. And after Andrew accepted, Fletcher put him to the test of endurance and power of will, to see what's his truly made of. You make or break. They are both beyond the limits dedicated persons in what they are passionate about. They needed each other and they both felt it in their guts from the beginning till the very end. Only expressing it in their own, extreme and cinematic way. In my eyes, Fletcher is a gift considering what Andrew wanted and needed, not a devil. A devil, as both the girl and Andrew figured out, was her and everyone else who was potential distraction to exceptional relationship Andrew and Fletcher has in this "buddy love" story.
@@DarjanRS I didn't mean Fletcher was the devil from Andrew's perspective. Yes from Andrew's perspective Fletcher may have been a gift and Nicole a devil (a little harsh on Nicole but I get what you are saying), but I wasn't speaking from Andrew's perspective. Looking at things not from Andrew's perspective, I find very strong evidence that Fletcher is a devil character and I can't imagine anyone interpreting Nicole as the devil.
what movie is this 0:36 hehe
Boogie Nights
thank you!
So... Whiplash as a Faustian tale?
yes. as someone else mentioned, the band Fletcher plays with at the bar is the Zak FAUST Quartet. I definitely would've mentioned that in my video had I noticed it!
Nothing is for free 😢
Band conductors mostly wear black
this is all wrong tho, pretty much a sad movie that leads to self destruct
what do I say that contradicts this?
😊🙏💯
This movie was worse than the Social Network.
Nobody in the music world would buy this.
That's why its a movie and Chazelle is a filmmaker, not a musician
This assessment is wrong. Why the devil? This movie is not about selling your soul to the devil. That is ridiculous. It's about choice and what it takes to be elite. There are only so many hours in a day. You can choose to spend it with a girlfriend, hang out with your buddies, party, or practice. If you subscribe to the analysis in this video you will only ever be average at best. Unless you just have extraordinary talent that comes naturally. And even then I wouldn't bet money on you. This is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact!
I mean, they literally reference Faust in relation to Fletcher. I missed it when making this video but it is in there. Not sure how much more evidence you need than that
@@MoviesUnderTheSurface Interesting! I see your point if you're looking at it as a person who wants to lead an ordinary life. However, Andrew did not meet Fletcher at the crossroads and was not offered great success in exchange for his soul. But still, you make an excellent point. Is Whiplash a lesson in what it takes to be great, or a cautionary tale of what you have to exchange to be great? There is a famous Twilight Zone about a pool shark who wants to be the best, and he gets a game with the greatest pool player of all time (side note: the legendary pool player has been called up from hell/purgatory to play this match). In the end, the wannabe only needs to make one easy shot to be the greatest. The Legend warns him by asking, "are you sure you want to be the greatest because if you make this shot, you will dethrone me." The pool shark scoffs accusing the legend of trying to throw him off. He makes the shot, and only afterward does he learn that he has to take the place of the legend in hell and defend his crown forever. He has no family, no fun, no future, just the obligation to remain the greatest. So greatness can be an unwitting curse. I've watched Whiplash many times, but next time I will be mindful of your perspective. Well done. Thank you.