Norwegian Bokmål: Languages of the World: Introductory Overv
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Alexander Arguelles presents a series of videos to provide introductory overviews of the languages of the world. Working diachronically through various language families in turn, he demonstrates how to identify each language, translates a text sample to show how it works, and discusses its genetic affiliation and cultural context. For further information about the series, please refer to www.foreignlang...
How to start a scandinavian war: "Norwegian is Danish spoken in Swedish".
Só it's grunty (Danish) but sing songy (Swedish)? Saunds drunk.
even norwegians admit that
I don't admit to that. It's not true. That bokmål is pretty much the same as written Danish I can accept, but Norweigan isn't the same as Danish, and it certainly isn't "spoken in Swedish". That doesn't make any sense. Sure, he was trying to simplify it, but it is still incorrect.
but the fact that it's very close to spoken swedish explains why norwegians can understand it better than the danes.
@@lmatt88 It's not.
You've done some excellent research, and you present some very interesting relations between Scandinavian languages that I, although being a Norwegian bokmål writer myself, have never realised, or even reflected upon. Well done.
Ein kann rita alle dessa ordi på bokmål: "annleis", "framleis", "såleis", "å tru", "ei bru", "å bu", "å tykke", "døme", "til dømes", "veit", "å vakne", "ei hand", "å meine", "heil", "vatn", "veg", "høg", "låg", "å likne", "samstundes", "stundom", "åssen", "aust", "laus", "å løyse", "å rite", "kjærleik", "å røyne", "sjøl", "sjølsagt", "fornøgd", "gras", "å glømme", "botn", "djup", "mjuk", "å daue", "jamn", "å jamføre", "samd", "nærleik", "heim"
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Hearing you read the page was so cool! Very interesting information!
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fascinating. takk!!
I've been studying Norsk independently, and was going to study Swedish because its phonetically the same, but I guess if I'm learning Norwegian I should study Danish afterwards...
:)
takk!
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I'm a norwegian myself and I have to say you're doing a really good job at translating :).
Just a minor detail:
grantoppene translates to "top of the spruce trees" , not pine ;)
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Learn you realize your expertise and be comfortable in your knowledge. Breathe naturally. Confidence! :)
Excellent vids!
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If you are studying Norwegian and have had some experience of learning German grammar, you could have a look at this song called Tyskleksa (the German lesson) which is a fun little song by Øystein Sunde.
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Aye spot on. I bought a book and CD for learning Norwegian years ago, they all pronounced the words in a very phonetic way. When I heard someone from Trondelag speaking you can imagine how confused I was
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Another important aspect of most Bokmål dialects is the retroflex consonants 'r' and 'l'. When 'r' precedes 'n', 'd', or 't' it becomes retroflex, also when the 'r' and the other consonant are in two different words, 'and 'l' similarly when following a consonant.
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@KASKALEGSKRIVE As far as I know, the slogan was "snakk dialekt, skriv nynorsk" (ikke bokmål). But it is correct that all Norwegians speak their own dialect because it is so inherently linked to their local identity and will preserve it throughout life regardless of where they settle.
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a good example is the word "grine".
in danish it means to laugh, but in norwegian it means to cry.
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You're very good at speaking norwegian for someone who isn't norwegian :)!
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I wanted to point out that the first Scandinavian Languages chart that apprears in the video is taken from "Danish, Norwegian and Swedish" - Einar Haugen, The World's Major Languages (ed. Comrie), page 159. Credit should have been given to the publication. Also the second little phonology triangle is taken from the same source, page 161.
Up till now, I haven't used G+ that much yet, although I think I might start doing so.
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@@ProfASAr I love your work, by the way. :)
Well, yes. But then, "bokmål" is only a written language, and it's most similar to "standard eastern Norwegian". Norway have a great variety of dialects, but most people understand each other.
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It's nice to see how people respond to poor and good comments!
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It's very possible, i'm learning it myself using Pimsleur's programme, you can find it online. My mother tongues are Dutch and English, which are a little alike Norwegian, but using Pimsleur, you should be fine - I actually met someone from Ukraine who learned it in 6 months.
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@Marchawc- The way it basically work (in Norwegian) is that the prefix (indefinate article) say something about the nouns gender. EN gutt (A boy), EN kopp (A cup), ET glass (A glass). The articles vary from the words gender: EN - Male, ET - neutral/no gender, EI - Female. When you are using the definate form of the noun, in Male and neutral words they gain the article as a suffix. guttEN (the boy), koppEN (the cup), glassET (the glass). Words of female gender gains the suffix of -A or -EN, depending on the word. Norwegian also don't have any plural indefinate articles, there are other suffixes that the words gain in those cases (guttER, koppER). So more easily explained; the difference between using the article as a prefix to the noun or as a suffix to it is like the difference between using "A" and "The" as an article to the noun in English.
Whether a feminine noun gets "-a" or "-en" doesn't depend on the word, all of them can have "-a". "-en" is from Danish, by the way.
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Wow. Very skilful. I'd like to know how to become so acquanted in languages as you are :). I love so much languages and I cannot but appreciate your ability :)
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Wonderful introduction, thank you! :) I'll tak a look at the other parts!
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This is a very interesting video! You might not be surprised to hear that indeed, swedish is easier to hear and harder to read, but danish is easier to read and harder to hear, for a norwegian speaker.
One issue though, you translated "grantoppene" as "the tops of the pines". The most common pine tree in Norway is the Scots Pine, which is called "furu", but the word "gran" is used for Spruce, so the word should be translated to "the tops of the spruce trees".
Swedish is easy to read if you can write Nynorsk.
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Understanding Danish and Swedish as a Norwegian is easy once you're used to talking to them. Kind of neat how we can talk to each other in different languages and still understand one another.
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I speak fluent Swedish and I find it hard to understand Danish (I can work out some written but spoken causes problems). Norwegian I can understand pretty well (I listen to the Norwegian radio sometimes). I think it's quite strange (but also pretty cool) how two different languages can be so close to each other.
Norsk og svensk er det same språket.
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I write in bokmål myself as I come from an area where we use bokmål, but personally I prefer nynorsk as it sounds more poetic to me and is closer to my dialect than bokmål. I wish nynorsk was more widespread than it is and that I had grown up writing it and not just spent hours in secondary school to learn to write it and ending up with swedish...
Eg hatar bokmålet i denna videoen, det er so danskt! Ein kann rita alle dessa ordi på bokmål: "annleis", "framleis", "såleis", "å tru", "ei bru", "å bu", "å tykke", "døme", "til dømes", "veit", "å vakne", "ei hand", "å meine", "heil", "vatn", "veg", "høg", "låg", "å likne", "samstundes", "stundom", "åssen", "aust", "laus", "å løyse", "å rite", "kjærleik", "å røyne", "sjøl", "sjølsagt", "fornøgd", "gras", "heim".
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thanks very much for all of your comments
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I'm norwegian myself, and I have to see you are doing a really good job :).
Just a minor detail..
grantoppene translates top of the spruce trees, not pine ;).
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Mr. Arguelles is serious about what he's doing, but his pronunciation of the name Ivar Aasen (the gifted linguist who codified Nynorsk) is incorrect. His pronunciation of Ivar is okay, but the last name is pronounced (in English spelling) as /awsen/; the speaker says /ahsen/ which is wrong.
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Hei to everybody! I can observe many norwegians commented the video above, so my question will be mostly to norwegians: is it possible to study norsk - bokmal into Internet if I am not Scandinavian language speaker? Any advice and information will be much appreciated! Tusen takk!
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Pimsleur is amazing for learning any language, so I recommend that as well. I'm norwegian and I'm learning to speak Japanese with Pimsleur.
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Very interesting seeing the language from another perspective :)
I'm from Norway myself, obviously. :)
By the way, "H|o|der" is pronounced less like "wh|o|" and more like "h|oo|t". Couldnt find an exact fit for it, but that's at the very least closer :)
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Absolutely fantastic!
Jeg kann ikke snakker norsk, men jag kan pratar lite bra svenska, och jag vill vara flytande på svenska. Kanske kann jag gör. det. ;)
I love your videos, and especially this one, because my area of linguistics is Germanic, but more specifically North Germanic languages!
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In ordinary Swedish "grina" is a verb meaning "to cry" but in the Scanian dialect it still means "to laugh". Danish heritage i presume.
It means "to cry" in Norwegian as well.
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I wanted to point out that Norwegian is really complex, even to us Norwegians. I had Nynorsk (New Norwegian) for 10 years in school, as the main written language. But I still find Bokmål easier to write. Mainly because it is hard for me to distinguish the old form of my dialect, from what is correct Nynorsk. They are pretty similar, but still not the same. So I kind of have 3 Norwegian languages, which is really confusing to say the least.
+Elida Åsland So Nynorsk is basically more the spoken language, whereas Bokmål is only the written? Or does anyone actually speak in Bokmål?
+Peter von Harten neighter is actually the spoken language, because we have a large bunch of dialects. Nynorsk is made mostly from dialects from the west of Norway. And Bokmål sounds more like the east of Norway. Bokmål was made as a more Norwegian form of Danish, after Denmark owned Norway. Danish was the formal language in Norway for a while, and there were no written Norwegian language.
Since there's no standard spoken Norwegian technically we're learning to speak Oslo dialect. What is the reaction of Norwegians of other places when being adressed in another dialect by foreigners?
I have never really thought about that. What foreigners usually learn is bokmål, and that's the easiest approach to Norwegian.
yeah but bokmal is a written standard though we learn to speak like people in Oslo
The differences are minor. You can mix bokmål and nynorsk to your own style. We have western nynorsk, eastern nynorsk and bokmål. Choose inflection in your own style from these three and you'll have lots of combinations. Some words are different. Remember nynorsk and bokmål are writings. If you choose to learn nynorsk, make sure you ask for nynorsk litterature. When you master nynorsk you'll also read bokmål. Listen carefully what he says on the vid. Minor differences.
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Quite interesting how you think this works :) I myself, are all for Nynorsk, but more for the dialects :) I come from a small Island outside Ålesund, but still I speak a lot of words they don't understand, since Ålesund has converted to bokmål :/ I say: Kjøme = kommer vettkje = vet ikke kaffør?= hvorfor and FOLE :D = Veldig, mye, grusomt, /// :P Anyway, keep on what you're doing, mate ;)
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You're right, someone not familiar with Scandinavian lgs is likely to have problems with telling them apart. But, what I have found surprising, some people (Americans, from my experience) have a hard time distinguishing Polish and German (sic!).
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There are also a few of us who likes nynorsk, as that is closest to many of the norwegian dialects. Like me !
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Grunn = reason in that setting, not ground.. Just a heads up! Very nice video.
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Vest - Agder where I'm from, we speak very uniqe today, because we still have alot of danish left in our dialect ;) the major difference is the pronounciation of the "R" sound. I feel we speak norwegianized danish hehe.
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The main difference except the different words in norwegian and swedish is the tone the languages are spoken in and you sound more swedish than norwegian, but it was great concidering you know the swedish language better. I also got a little hung up in your L's. I don't know if you already knew this but the L in for example 'bokmål' is pronounced just like the american L(that is if you don't have a dialect), and also words like holdt :) also.. when a D comes after L or N, the D is silent XD
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One peculiarity of the Skandinavian languages is the positioning of the definite article as a suffix. E.g. in bokmål - "gutten"("boy the"), "jenta"("girl the"), "barnet"("child the"). As far as I know, no other languages do this. How did this come about?
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hei.. jeg har lærnt å snakke litt norsk.. men jeg liker å vet mer om dette språket.. jeg kommer fra filippinene.. tusen takk
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I really enjoy your videos, you make me want to try harder in learning languages
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To tell them apart, well, I look for "ikke "and "ikkje" :)
There's also "eg" and "jeg", "ein" and "en", "frå" and "fra".
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Haha, fun to see and hear as a norwegian. Your pronunciation is actually quite good. Although a bit academic sounding if I am allowed to say. And the part with norwegians understanding danes and swedes is oh so true.
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ok, so to make things clear! bokmal and nynorsk are different in the writing, but as long as im taking norwegian lessons in bokmal, will i be able to be understood by all habitants of Norway and at the same time will it be difficult for me to understand peaple who use nynorsk(in Bergen for example)?? :| im talking about speaking skills...
Nynorsk and Bokmål are not spoken languages.
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@Killerman2k Yes, but no one talks the way we would read aloud. We would understand you, but you would not understand us. We're big on dialects:-)
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I am to inform that "Bokmaal" and "Nynorsk" is almost equal spoken. They are both official "ways" of writing and speech, and it is up to each county in Norway to decide witch "way" they want to teach in school. Both ways is equally common.
PS: Very good reading Mr.Arguelles : )
They're not spoken languages.
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@xhannahxonealx ALOT of people are using nynorsk, it's just that people from the east of norway don't understand that so many uses it, or likes it. I love NYNORSK!!
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not spotless but good:)
Here are some helping hints:)
"hinannen" are the Danish form of the word(( from back when norway was a part of the kingdom of denmark, but that way of writing, has almost disappeared(Ivar Aasen btw, is spelled Ivar Åsen, two A's are pronounced " Å" )), and means "each other" , the Bokmål form are: "hverandre" and the nynorsk form are: "kvarandre"
and speaking of which: Happy 17. of May ^^
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@@ProfASAr thanks for replying.
Beautiful language !!!! Greetings from Serbia
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Can anyone tell me what book is used for this video? It is difficult to find Norwegian books in America.
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Can anyone recommend any books/websites to learn (and really LEARN) bokmål?
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It's going to be fine... We only write in Nynorsk or Bokmål. But we talk dialects. So you're going to have trouble understanding some people either way. Even Norwegians do.
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why did you get cut-off? please allocate 30 minutes of video instead of 9; no interruptions please!
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Great. You are good in speaking norwegean, you have no trubble to comunicate with us. Your norwegean is as good as my english. or mabye bether.
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hey you talk good Norwegian. i am from Norway and the only things i could say to just to inform you is that the letter Å is pronounced like the a when you say talk in English and in Norwegian surnames to a`s like ivar aasen the two a`s is pronounced lik an å.
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You are REALLY smart. I learn a lot from you!!!
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When he reads the text, it doesnt really sound much like how a Norwegian would pronounce it
But still, it is understandable. Honestly, I would have understood him better than most of the immigrants that has lived here for 10+ years.
thosava You totally missed the point.
exentr This was written some time ago. I do not know why i wrote it...
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Haha, Norwegian is Danish spoken in Swedish is so true! Never really thought of it as that before ...
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In this video, there are a couple more obvious "faults" in your norwegian pronounciation, but still incredibly impressive pronounciation. The only thing I would like to point out, as a norwegian speaker, is that your differenciation of the norwegian words "det" and "de" are hard to catch, as you pronounce them quite similar. The correct pronounciation of the norwegian word "de" is more like "di", if you catch my drift.. "Det" was pronounced perfectly. Again, mad respect from Norway :-D
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@Gott2070 Nynorsk is based on Norwegian dialects but Bokmål has Danish influence
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If one is trying to distinguish between Bokmål (BM) and Nynorsk (NN), then there are some differences one should be aware of:
1) Indefinite articles:
BM has 'en', 'ei', and 'et', whereas NN uses 'ein', 'ei', and 'eit'. Pay attention on the first and the last article respectively.
2) The pronouns:
BM uses 'jeg' while NN only allows for 'eg' for 'I'. NN also makes a clear distinction when allowing 'me' to be used for 'we'.
There are plenty more examples, but it won't fit into a mere comment. :P
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This is seriously the sickest s**t i've ever seen. This man knows every language i've ever heard of and still some more, almost. And suddenly i came across him speakin Nynorsk and Norwegian Bokmål to. Incredible! :O
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I really wish I could speak Bokmål Norwegian, I'm trying but it's very hard to learn a foreign language in Canada, especially when nobody speaks it around here.
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@xhannahxonealx Enig.
Those of you who want to learn Norwegian, don't learn Nynorsk. Nynorsk was created to make the Norwegian language sound "more Norwegian" and we have to learn it in school. It's really stupid, since it sounds and is written pretty much the same as bokmål. If Norwegian should sound more Norwegian, we should learn Old Norse, the language of the Vikings. Now THAT's a language of badassness!
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You sound a little funny when you talk Norwegian ,but you're very talented. Your pronunciation is also very good. Interesting video!
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I find it pretty cool that, being norwegian, I can understand both danish and swedish and also some icelandic (although I would´nt be able to follow a conversation in icelandic at all :P)
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i want to learn Norwegian but it´s so hard to find a teacher and it´s so expensive to learn it
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Hi! Very good vid! Very interesting.
You had a good Norwegian.
Best Regards Norway
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@profasar I'm currently studying Norwegian at home, as I plan to work or study in Norway in the near future, during or after university. I'd like to ask whether -- if you have been to one of the Scandinavian countries -- it's hard to engage a native in their own language. Seeing as 9/10 people in Norway speak textbook English, I'm worried that as soon as I try to speak to people in their own tongue they'll recognise my British accent and respond in English, thus giving me no chance to practice.
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AlbanianMetalDude:
Well... the expert kinda explains this in the videos... its the same language-family.
My personal experience is that Norwegians understand Swedish better then Swedes understand Norwegian. Danish people seems to understand Swedish better than they understand Norwegian... but this is probably different from person to person.
There are so many similar words in the Scandinavian languages, that communication in our native language is normally no problem.
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italian is easier to pronounce and indonesian is the easiest to pronounce and to write (and somehow better than malay), i've learned both malay and indonesian, many say that they are the same but actually it's a big no no and i think indonesian pronounciation and grammar is better.
salute to you!! you are brilliant and very eloquent, any further research on other language (outside germanic, maybe russian or greek?? or chinese?)
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@ProfASAr is it correct to consider modern Norwegian as an dialect of Danish rather than a language of its own?
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@xhannahxonealx I can think of only one good reason to learn nynorsk, not that it is a big one. You see a foreign language film on TV you want to watch and don't know the foreign language but have learnt so watch the subtitles, only to find that due to the quotas the subs are in nynorsk. :p
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Strange! Undset was catholic! The plot in Kristin Lavransdatter is from the catholic Norway.
I know it's made a movie in Poland based on Tarjei Vesaas novel Fuglane. Try to read Fuglane. Maybe you'll like it. I think it was a good one.
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@sigge951 Sorry, but that would be Danish names, since the vikings that settled in Britain were mostly Danes... Hence the term "the Danelaw". But then again, Norwegian and Danish are pretty much the same, as the nice guy in the video points out.
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SUPER !
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@ProfASAr thank you.
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Also difficult is 'u' and 'o'. Not because they're hard to pronounce, but because they have two different pronounciations. There are no rules to this, so it's just something one has to learn. In 'unge', it is not like you say, 'oonge', but like the way it is pronounced in German or Spanish. In 'skudd', however, it's like you say. The letter 'o' is either pronounced like the 'u' in 'unge', or like the letter 'å', which is similar to German or Spanish 'o'. In 'over' and 'hoder' this is the case.
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Is the nynorsk text the beginning of Egils saga?
Yes.
haha, det er morsomt å høre på når du snakker norsk. Du snakker ganske bra, men samtidig er tonefallet ditt veldig varierende.
fortsett sånn :)
"Morsomt" er dansk, "høre" er dansk, "snakker" er frå tysk "snacken", "ganske" er frå tysk, "bra" er frå fransk "brave", "-ende" er dansk, "å variera"/"å variere" er frå latin, og "sånn" er frå lågtysk "sodan".
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nice video. good intro. but its impossible to speak norwegian from just reading the text, cus alot of words is pronounced different from how it is written. for example the common word "de". proun: "di"
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Hi, I would like to learn Norwegian, which one should I start to learn first Bokmal or Nynorsk? Which is better for a base?
Are they so different that i won't be able to understand the speaking/writing when i go to the other part of the country?
Bokmål is Norwegian-influenced Danish, Nynorsk is more Norwegian, but you should learn Bokmål first, because there are more resources for it.
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@ProfASAr: Your videos are great, but as a native norwegian, I can't help notice your pronounciation is very much like how the finns speak. Kind of staccato. Norwegian are really a little smoother than the way you speak it. For the record, I'm not talking about your wordflow, but the words themselves.
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@HenninGlad
What are your grounds for saying that? ;) "Ground" (= a rational motive for a belief or action) is a synonym for "reason" (= a rational motive for a belief or action) in English!
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what is the first book you're using (with the language diagrams) ?
anybody else knows?
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if i close my eyes and listen to you, it sounds like a viking just landed in modern Norway few days ago. A bit funny accent, but understood nearly all your words. Little problems with the å and y mostly.
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There's no people that speak nynorsk, that speak a written form of language. Norway is a country quite rich on different dialects, though Norwegian for a long time have been going closer and closer to danish. When nynorsk was made, it was formed as a written form taking mutual elements from all the dialects, though with a weight on those more untouched by danish and german. The original nynorsk was a lot of more conservative than now, since danish-norwegian and nynorsk have approached eachother.
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Nynorsk should be the standard for Norwegian. thats what I would like to see anyways.
Samd.
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0:39-3:00 What book is that?
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@woia If you are going to write how it is prounounced, you did it wrong. The norwegian word 'de' sounds like 'dee', not 'di', which then will be pronounced more like 'die' than 'dee'... :P And we sertaintly does not prounounce it like 'die' in norway :)
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@Andreastij Don't forget the Angles and Saxons. :^)
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Hi. An american learning Norwegian! I'm impressed :). How long have you been studying my mother tongue and why did you wanna learn it?
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The differences are minor. Remember nynorsk and bokmål are writings. Nynorsk more arcaic than bokmål even they were created at the same time between 1830 - 1880. A short trip to Norway is not a matter of how you handle our writings. Norwegians speak english as well.
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Not sure if this have been commented before, but I see you're pronouncing Ivar Aasen's last name straight out with "a". Before the "å" came, they wrote double-a instead. Meaning, Aasen is pronounced "Åsen".
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Most Norweigans have little problems understanding both Danish and Sweedish.
Norwegian teens hates Ivar Aasen and nynorsk, since we have to learn both nynorsk and bokmål in school. We have exams in both :P
And I wounder, is there an official way to pronounce the letter r in nynorsk and bokmål really?
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that's the same in Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands.. we just adapt ourselves to the english speaking people.
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Definitely bokmål if you're going to the capital, and you will rearly need nynorsk if you don't particularely ask for writtten material in that language. Nynorsk is close to how people speak on the west coast, and makes it easier to understand dialects. Noone really speaks nynorsk, it's sort of a mixture of different dialects.
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Thank you! I love norweigan, especially the old langauge.
Then you should hear Vallemål.
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depends on how you use it
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