Marvel Champions' Top 10 Most Complicated Heroes
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- 52 heroes - but which are most complicated? What even is "complicated"? Join me here as I try to identify the top 10! And thanks to my Discord for inspiring this video!
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(Card images in the video are courtesy of Cerebro developer UnicornSnuggler. Huge thanks!)
00:00 10 - Rogue
00:50 9 - Shadowcat
01:31 8 - Storm
02:42 I talk about stuff (and I will know if you skip this... 👀)
04:12 7 - Colossus
05:09 6 - SP//dr
05:59 5 - Ms. Marvel
07:49 4 - Star-Lord
09:13 3 - Psylocke
10:40 Honorary mentions
10:47 1? - Domino
11:32 1? - Magik
14:00 Conclusion 
Игры
The hardest part of magik is holding in the tears when you set up the top of your deck perfectly and your friend plays maria hill.
If your cards are action either on top of your deck or her events in hand, you should play it before
@@Champion_Leon The problem is sometimes you want a certain resource on top for event/upgrade kickers, and you set it up using Limbo in the villain phase
Haha! That is unfortunate if it happens
My favorite hero (Rogue), my son's favorite hero (SP//DR), and my wife's current favorite (Magik) all made this list.
Fantastic taste all round!
I like these short sharp 10-15 minute videos! Much more digestible. Thanks for the content 👍
They're also a lot easier to make haha! Glad you enjoyed it
Would love to see a video on what your Revamped Core Box would be.
What 5 heroes would you use as good starting heroes, the build for each aspect you would have that's be interchangeable, which villains and modular sets you'd place in as well.
Thanks for the idea! I like that!
This is a great idea
My favorite video of yours so far! Also this video sold me on Ms.Marvel, and she moved up on my wishlist! Would love a follow up on the different "forms" of complexity or top 10 easiest to learn for me to recommend to my friends who just started playing.
Great suggestions, thanks! And glad you enjoyed it!
I have long said that I think having a “complexity” rating for the champions similar to what Spirit Island has would be helpful.
I think it would particularly be helpful for new players to help guide choices on characters.
Definitely! That's an interesting concept for the game.
I very much agree with your list, especially the first two places. I do think Magik is harder to play. Well, specifically I 100% agree with 9 of them, but I also see your point and I don't disagree with you. I just simply never thought of him that way. He being Colossus. As weird as it may sound, I never thought of him as very complicated, to me he seemed somewhat straightforward with a lot of interesting and unique tools. After listening to your opinion though, yeah, I absolutely see that. I'd put him a bit lower, but that's not here nor there. Everyone at our table really likes him and got used to him pretty much after the first play, but of course that's just us. As I said, I still agree with the points you made.
Totally fair, everyone's opinion is different!
Great video, really love this kind of stuff both from an analysis perspective and from a potential buyer's perspective. Most of my favorite heroes I've gotten so far are on this list so I think I know which ones to get next.
At least for me (don't have Domino or Magik yet), Colossus takes the top spot for my most complicated hero to play. I think there are a lot of other heroes that require you to make a lot of micro decisions that on a minute-to-minute gameplay basis feel more complicated, but the decisions you have to make with Colossus are require you to evaluate a lot of things going on and really sort of force you to prescribe value to different effects. What's better in this situation, a tough status card for the villain phase or removing it to eliminate a minion? Stacking tough status cards to enable an explosive turn later or cashing in on what I have for board control? Chump block with an ally to retain my tough or allow a tough status to be stripped to keep the ally alive? I always feel that I have multiple difficult decisions every turn when I'm playing Colossus, and at least for me it feels more brain burning than playing a character that in theory should be more complicated like Psylocke.
Another aspect of complexity that I'm not sure if you were factoring in is the complexity in deckbuilding. I saw you had Adam Warlock in your honorable mentions but he's the character that I find myself playing the least by far because of his deckbuilding restriction. I think that might frankly be more because I find it very annoying to have to access all of my cards when building a deck, but how to build an effective deck for him is a very different beast than most other heroes and I'm quite bad at it. In general there are some characters that I think deckbuilding for is much more straightforward and streamlined than others, and doesn't always correlate one to one to the heroes complexity. For example, Angel is on the more complicated side mechanically, but I've found deckbuilding for him to be pretty straightforward.
Deck-building wasn't really a factor in this, though perhaps it was a tiebreaker! And great points about Colossus
Great video topic! Rogue, Shadowcat, Psylocke...some of my favorites! I think Domino is up there too, I just need more games to solidify that.
I've seen Rogue getting a bit of shade lately from other places, but I love that she has this utility built into her kit. If you need some additional attack/thw, you can touch an ally to get Aerial, if you need that one extra card to play something else, you can touch another player in Multi-player games... Lots of great decision points that just feel good.
Nice! They're great! And yes, I have a lot of love for Rogue as well. What a cool hero!
Nice video! I think this is really useful, especially for people deciding on what heroes to get.
Hey! Glad you think so!
For me your what makes a hero complicated list splits into judgement and things that lead to long elaborate puzzly turns. Starlord stands out as he's all judgement, he wouldn't be on my complicated list at all. He's hard to play for that other reason,high skill ceiling or whatever just not complexity.
Domino is easily the most complicated to me. I didn't find Magik anywhere near, though that might be because I didn't really get to grips with her.
Psylock plays pretty simply too as most of the time one of each weapon is what you want for events and if you need 3 in a basic ability you have it on tap. She'll have some more tricky turns but I think they are less of a puzzle than say Nova's unleashed turns.
(There you are she's solved YW)(While I'm at it Valkyrie - don't play her spear or put Deathglow on the Villain)
I played Shadowcat and Colossus at the same time and Shadowcat was way more complicated. Colossus is probably one of those judgement ones that I'm not counting based on semantics.
Ms Marvel is so old I've internalised her. I guess I did like her originally as she had a less straightforward play style.
Is Ironman perhaps one of those judgment characters? Or do you just learn what to do and just do it? Like SP//dr.
A fun list again!
Hmm Rogue might be the most complicated as I'm scared to even try to build a deck for her.
Thanks! There's definitely different criteria you can use, and the list looks different depending on how you interpret it.
For what it's worth, I think Iron Man has a unique gameplan to learn but once you have a basic understanding I think he's relatively straightforward compared to these heroes. But I'm sure someone out there disagrees and that's totally legit
Definitely agree w the top 3, although not so much w the order of the rest.
Interesting video, always good to hear your thoughts on this game.
Hope you keep delighting us w this channel and your decks, thanks for the time and work on it.
Thanks! Means a lot!
I'm not surprised many of the mutants were placed here, as I felt that they were more Event-based vs Upgrade/Support based like the Avengers. In order to get the mutants rolling well, they needed support and resources that weren't always found in their kit. That took a bit of a readjustment for me, and there are many I still haven't played.
That's a great way to look at it too. Barely any X-Men have been given resource generators in their kit. Not really any Super Soldier Serums, God of Thunders or Eye of Agamotto type cards to be found.
@@VillainTheory I like that it shows the difference in design space that's available, but as your list shows, these Heroes play in more intricate rule space and decision making. There's pro's and con's to each, but I've found that I'm looking to other builds to help get me started with ideas.
I think this is a solid 10 for the most complicated, but I would change the order. Id put Psylocke into the #1 slot for sure. She's my favorite and most played champ, and i still have to sit there and puzzle out how to take my turns sometimes.
Weirdly enough, i don't find Magik to be a very complicated character to play. I mostly am just on autopilot with her, but maybe that's just the way i build her? Seems like other people agree with you there so idk. Domino is more of a puzzle than Magik, but even then i think that once you figure her out, it's easy to know what you should do, so Id put her somewhere in the middle. Id bump up shadowcat and rogue into the top 5, probably right behind Psylocke for the second and third spot. Rogue has more choices to make turn to turn than any other hero, especially in multiplayer. And Shadowcat just simply for the difficult rules as you mentioned
It's funny, some people say Psylocke is easy. My partner finds her way more difficult than Domino, for example, but I've heard lots of opinions to the opposite. Interesting how so many people can have such different experiences with the same hero. Solid changes all-round.
EDIT: Also great to see the Psylocke love, she's in my top 3 heroes right now I think, been playing her a lot too!
I think #1 goes to Magic. Magic does less controlled movement typically, but "she cares" so much more about what specifically is moving AND when and has much lower access to *wilds* to cover what she checks for. Much harder to deck build for imo. With less versatile options but more strict checking in-game makes her "harder to play".
Domino pretty much (dumb down description) just runs through deck-ditching with a preset *power-scale* of things to catch/swap. She just boils down to dump-catch choice-swap-play.
Very fair and I was super torn between them. I think that's why I prefer playing Magik, every hand is a unique puzzle while Domino runs on a kind of "priority system" to some extent with lots of possible swaps. Though I do think Domino has some really interesting decision points still every game, ultimately yes she also will probably win anyway even if you only find the second, fourth or sixth best option.
Great video as always and I generally agree.
However I think Magik is the most complicated as her power comes from the complicated decisions you have to make each turn. If you make poor decisions she can seem quite weak in my opinion. That analysis paralysis you have mentioned when discussing domino is what I get from Magik and she is actually one of my least favourite heroes.
Domino on the other hand is one of my favourites as she has a lot of decisions to make but you can make them quicker and easier knowing that you are still likely to get a strong outcome from her excellent upgrades like her pistols. This is the case even if the play you make isn’t the most optimal.
Great to have so many varied characters in the game though with so many interesting choices to make.
Thanks! And I was very conflicted about Magik or Domino, can completely see it the other way around!
Great video, as always. I'm actually looking forward to playing psylocke she is one of my favorite xmen characters.
I absolutely looove Psylocke so I hope you do too! 🥳
I really like characters that do shenanigans with the deck. Shout out to Scarlet Witch for being og in this regard.
Domino is slightly more daring than Magik. Two of my all time favorites.
Scarlet Witch is super fun, 100% agreed that messing with decks is basically always great.
Could you please do a top ten most powerful characters?
Really stellar video, as always!
Just a minor note: the video seems edited in a strange way, it seems more like a segment from a longer video as there seems to be no introduction and the explanation of your judging criteria should be at the very beginning explaining what you consider as "difficult" hero so to guide from the start the viewer in your thought process...
Also, I am kind of sad you cut off the part on honorable mentions, I really do like when you go deep with technical explanations and I don't mind your longer videos...
That being said, just m2c, enjoyed the video a lot even if I disagree con psylock, I think she is a very forgiving hero and allows you to play around with the katanas way more freely than a shadow cat (or a spectrum) with their form changes
I wasn't 100% happy with the editing here. It wasn't taken from a longer video, but something I tried recently with my 10 tips video was just going straight into it with sound effects and short points. And it has my best retention (people not clicking off the video) by far of all my videos I ever made. So I was going for that again here and explaining a little later, though I do think I could have done better with the editing.
Perhaps there's a middle ground - will think on it if I do another similar video! Appreciate the feedback. It seems most people haven't minded but I was skeptical about this one's editing to a small degree.
Also, perhaps I'll even do another 10 complicated characters. So perhaps the others will get their explanations!
It's interesting how to factor forgiveness into the difficulty, because I do think there are turns where Psylocke's sequencing can get tricky but there are also plenty of turns where it's fairly straightforward. Still, I think she has a lot going on. I think she stays on my personal complicated list - but I could be persuaded to move her down for sure!
@@VillainTheory it's not so much the edit as that you say "and then we have Rogue ", which implies you are following on from something else. I liked it otherwise.
@@jonathanpickles2946 Okay, scrapped this original message here to edit this~ I listened back on my phone and thought you were right! Then I listened again at the PC wondering if I could edit the video via RUclips's tools to tweak the start. At the PC I can clearly hear myself saying "AT TEN, we have Rogue". But on my phone it 100% sounded like "AND THEN" hahaha! Oops.
Rogue was always the start of the video, but I did actually rerecord the whole thing as I wasn't happy with my first attempt and this was the result.
nice list.
I love complicated heroes so much and almost the only heroes I play outside new released heroes
Though I sometimes add Wolverine un the cycle of heroes for quick games , since most of these heroes took longer to play 😁
Thanks! And Wolverine definitely leads to some quick wins haha!
I am surprised with you being straight to the point at the beginning.
I disagree with some of your takes in the middle but I was thinking Domino/Magik better be on top and yes it was. Magik actually require you to deck build with the correct resources to optimize her while Domino is forgiving because her whole deck is filled with wild, thus, less punishing.
Good surprise or bad surprise?!
Rogue is the Best!
Are you stunned/confused? Touch your teammate!
6 unique cards that let you do 4 different things according where your touch is.
Is the villain pretty aggressive? Easy, bullet proof belle saves you 100% of damage for 2 consecutive attacks.
Are you lookin for specific hero events? Easy: touch your teammate and steal one of their powerful events.
Do you what to be the Sorcerer Supreme? Or play powerful psychic events, or be a Web-warrior: pretty easy to achieve, by deckbuilding and touching, always touching.
Rogue is a MONSTER of a hero!
Rogue is amazing, yeah! I really love playing her
I would love a video explaining some of the defense timing nuance! I keep on feeling like I am missing out.
Check out SC0E's video on it if you search his name and Shadowcat! It's pretty great. Though I may talk about defense in general some time I can't promise it
@@VillainTheory Thank you for replying! I will look for it. I really appreciate these educational videos a lot!
The most frustrating thing about flip heroes with alter-ego actions is in multiplayer it just feels SO PUNISHING to flip down for even a turn that isn't to heal because of how ridiculously fast scheme ramping feels.
I play with in a pod of 3 players generally and it kind of becomes nonsensical with how swingy things start to feel even if someone is playing Justice. Maybe we're adding too many counters accidentally, but man 😮💨
That being said however, it's actually quite fitting that my 2 favorite characters are Domino and Magik probably due to being a former Magic player haha. I love the top deck manipulation thing and find it so much fun in solo play!
Interesting! I usually find flipping down in multiplayer more forgiving as the main scheme has more room. With that said, threat is the part of the game that scales the most in multiplayer largely due to side schemes increasing in both frequency and their threat. So I would say threat can generally feel oppressive there, definitely, but usually the value gained from going alter-ego outweighs making the villain scheme on those heroes. So in theory it can be countered...
...But I do think Justice is borderline mandatory in 3-4 player. It's not, but it makes such a difference. And I don't even think 2x Justice players is a bad shout for very smooth games. My general advice would be to lean into Overwatch and Even the Odds if your Justice player owns them. Their 3-4 player efficiency is very hard to beat and should make general threat control much easier.
Glad you like Domino and Magik! They're fun!
Ahhh, yes, I love to complicate my life for myself so... I love complicated heroes :D Thanks for vid, great topic!
Haha! "Complicated" heroes are amazing!
Im a simple man, i see VT video, i click, and i like.
Not all heroes wear capes
I actually got a handle on most of these heros except for Shadowcat and Mrs. Marvel. I gotta get used to it.
Nice! They're both very enjoyable in my opinion, worth trying to learn if you have the time
I think the only thing I would change is swapping out Storm with Phoenix. I don't find Storm that complicated in fact I would think Spectrum is more complicated because you have less freedom to swap forms which plays similar to Storm. Phoenix is complicated because of her form/trait locking behind counters and you find yourself wanting the 3 ATK but you only have 3 THW and vice versa and getting or you're playing many cards needing her be unleashed but you've got too many counters on her card.
Completely fair take and I did actually consider Phoenix for this list. Spectrum is more restrictive and you have to be careful, but to me I thought Storm's global reach overall made her more complex.
@VillainTheory why most gameplays of Marvel Champions always skip talking about side schemes used? I really want to hear about how you guys are setting Villain up
I'm not sure what you mean by side schemes but hopefully someone will talk about them. Do you mean setting up the main scheme or something about side schemes that start in play?
@@VillainTheory yeaa my wording sucks. I meant Using Encounters Sets different than suggested f.e. Ultron + Under Attack or Rhino + Bomb Scare
More or less I need a video about customizing Villain scenarios!
@@SoAmazinglyBad Ahh! It's on the way! 😄
I mostly agree with everything you said. EXCEPT Ms. Marvel. She is very easy to use.
Haha! Ironically this video was inspired by someone in my Discord saying they were struggling with Ms. Marvel and many of us agreeing. I will say that once you understand her I don't think she's generally too difficult to play for the most part, but she plays so differently that it can catch people out with less experience.
Special Doctor.......😂😂😂😂
It's how it reads to me!
Star Lord isn’t complicated. Get all of the encounter cards in front of you, all the time. You will either win or lose quickly. If you lose, just play again:)
Haha, that's certainly one way to do it! 😁
The gender split is funny to me because my wife is less the gamer than me, but prefers playing a female character… which happen to be the more complex ones 😂
Shadowcat is one of her favorites. To me that’s a strength of the game design that even less “gamer” types can really enjoy complex heroes.
That's a great point/observation. My partner absolutely loves Domino even though she only typically likes casual games (or so it was before I dragged her into MC and Arkham haha!)
@@VillainTheorylol that’s great. Love when the hobby gets shared that way.
Most complicated Hero ist Spectrum
She has her moments!
No one beats Star Lord ⭐ 😂😂😂
Star-Lord: What could go wrong?
@@VillainTheory dude, seriously every time I play with him, something goes fucking wrong.